Money For Couples with Ramit Sethi

Episode 222: “My husband is my 4th child. Will he ever help?”

Release Date: August 19, 2025
Host: Ramit Sethi
Guests: Fernie & George (Married, 25 years, three children, one with special needs)

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the financial and emotional dynamics between Fernie and George, a couple married for 25 years who are struggling with overwhelming debt, a lack of shared financial responsibility, and conflicting attitudes toward money. Fernie, the self-described "sole manager" of the family's finances, shoulders the full burden of their chaotic money situation while George remains disengaged, defensive, and unaware of their dire financial reality. Throughout the emotionally charged session, Ramit unpacks the root causes of their financial distress—revealing a parent-child dynamic that threatens their marriage—and guides them toward accountability, communication, and urgent action.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Fernie's Burden and Breaking Point

• Situation: Fernie manages all finances for their family, including a son with significant special needs, yet feels she's “failing” everyone and at her physical and emotional breaking point.
  • “I will end up in a hospital... I constantly worry. I don't sleep, I overwork myself.” (03:27)
  • Fernie fears for their son’s future: “He's never gonna be able to provide for himself. ... He's always gonna be under our care.” (04:04)
• Impact: Chronic stress, sleeplessness, guilt, and health concerns.

2. George’s Disengagement and Money Avoidance

• George repeatedly confirms he’s not involved in daily finances: “I'm not informed... I go to work... that's how I see it.” (09:14)
• Ramit calls out George’s “avoider” tendencies (25:55), echoing themes from his book:

  “There’s a money type called the avoider. One of the techniques they use: ‘Babe, you’re better at this than I am. I trust you.’" (25:55)

3. Conflict Cycle: The Parent-Child Dynamic

• The family jokes Fernie has “four kids instead of three,” highlighting the imbalance (01:01, 62:00).
• Effect on Intimacy: Ramit notes, “The parent-child dynamic is really toxic. … Nobody wants to be intimate with a partner who is seen as a child.” (61:16)
• Fernie resents carrying the load: “Because he acts more like my kid instead of my partner, it's tearing our marriage... I’m not going to let stupid money ruin us.” (29:02)

4. Confronting Reality—and Each Other

• Ramit reviews their finances (02:50):
  • Assets: $331,000 (mostly home)
  • Investments: $12,000
  • Savings: $311 (!!)
  • Debt: $313,000
  • Net Worth: ~$31,000
  • Gross Income: $10,000/month
  • Fixed costs: 95% of income—“completely unsustainable” (02:52)
• Emotional impact: Fernie cries upon reviewing the numbers, feeling defeated and “overwhelmed” by debt and lack of emergency savings (36:10).
• Fernie admits: “What I'm doing is not working. I need to make sure that we're on the same page… I was trying to not see the big elephant in the room.” (54:58)

5. Communication Breakdown and Requests for Support

• Repeating Conflict Example: Fernie asks George to review the budget; George tries to escape to work. Fernie wants “partner support,” George wants to “make the number happen.”
  • “I want you to actually sit down, listen, support me, not run…because that's not going to solve anything." (13:24)

6. Exploring Beliefs and Family History

• Fernie’s people-pleasing comes up—she’s in therapy for her inability to say no (57:43), which affects her spending, especially on the kids.
• George’s financial immaturity ties back to his upbringing: he was financially supported by his parents until 25 and never learned to manage money or save (60:00).

7. Turning Point: Facing the Plan

• Ramit guides them to build a more aggressive, realistic budget:
  • Slash grocery spending from $1,000 to $400/month (81:49)
  • Cut subscriptions to Disney+, eliminate kids’ investments, stop vacation/gift funds (84:02)
  • Divorce income from “just enough” to aiming for more side hustle income (86:28)
  • Sell household clutter/toys for cash (93:00)
• Key advice: “Right now, it is red alert time. Time to change everything. …$311 in savings is unacceptable and the highest risk I’ve almost ever seen.” (80:40)

8. Action Steps & Commitment

• George defensively agrees to tasks (“I’ll do the basement”), but Ramit calls out his “try/if” language and lack of conviction.
  • “That word doesn't exist to me. … Do you find that you try to get away with as little as you can sometimes?” (93:56)
• Both Fernie and George express willingness to change, but George’s is more tenuous.
• Ramit: “You deserve more. And you’re not even giving it to yourself. … I’m trying to help you see how much you can achieve.” (95:16)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Fernie (On the spreadsheet):

  "I work on it every day. Two, three hours... It's kind of like a comfort seeing and, and trying to see when it's going to be over, but it never is." (16:55)

• George (On taking on more):

  “Because I believe so much in what—that she doing better than—I'm not going to be able to handle how she handles it, how good she does... I feel like I'm not good enough.” (25:21)

• Ramit (On George’s avoidance):

  “Avoiders also do things like avoid. When their partner tries to show them something, they'll...look at it... ‘Looks fine.’ They won't actually engage with it.” (26:26)

• Ramit (On fixed costs):

  “Your fixed costs are at 95%, which is completely unsustainable.” (02:52)

• Ramit (Calling out the dynamic):

  “We have the parent-child dynamic. And...it’s a joke in the family too, that I have four kids instead of three.” (62:00)

• Fernie (On money):

  “When I think of money, it could either bring safety, peace, tension, hardships.” (30:43)

• Fernie (On people-pleasing):

  “If they're in need and I'm still in financial trouble, I will still give them whatever I need to, to for them to be okay...it has cost me.” (57:32, 57:48)

• Ramit (On boundaries):

  “You’re going to have to go from fear to boldness. George, you’re going to have to go from trying to get away with as much as possible to actually saying, ‘I’m going to do this.’” (94:16)

Important Timestamps

• 03:27 – Fernie describes her breaking point and health concerns.
• 09:14 – George admits complete non-engagement with family finances.
• 13:24 – Fernie asks George for support; he bolts for “work.”
• 16:55 – Fernie reveals her obsessive time spent on the spreadsheet.
• 25:55 – Ramit identifies George as a “money avoider.”
• 29:02 – Fernie’s resentment: “Because he acts like my kid...finances could break our marriage.”
• 54:58 – Fernie finally confronts the reality: “What I'm doing is not working.”
• 62:00 – The family’s “four kids” joke—the parent/child dynamic exposed.
• 80:40 – Ramit gives the urgent call to action: “$311 in savings is unacceptable.”
• 86:28 – Discovery that side hustle money can change their financial picture.
• 93:56 – Ramit challenges George on his lack of accountability.
• 95:16 – Ramit’s final push: “You deserve more...”

Actionable Advice & Change Plan

• Immediate expense reduction: Drastically cut groceries, subscriptions, gifts, and discretionary spending.
• Emergency fund focus: Shift resources to building 6–12 months of savings (aim: $30k–$60k).
• Debt attack: Use side hustle and extra income to accelerate debt payoff, use Ramit’s debt calculator to build a timeline.
• Sell clutter: Declutter the home, sell toys and unused items for cash and psychological relief.
• Change communication habits: Replace spreadsheet “sitting” with joint monthly walks to discuss finances.

Episode Follow-Up (Post-Taping Updates)

(100:00–101:23)

• Fernie & George refinanced their home (7% → 5%) and car loan, reducing monthly payments.
• Cut phone bill by switching carriers, saving $144/month, and cancelled all but Disney+.
• Paused college fund savings; shifted to emergency fund ($350 biweekly target).
• Paid off two credit cards; George picked up more hours; Fernie found joy and side income crocheting.
• Biggest change: shifted conversations away from tense spreadsheet sessions to joint, lighter discussions—using walks to connect and plan.

  “We want to thank you all for the help. And it's a work in progress. I'm getting more involved.” – George (99:46) “So far, we’re moving in a great direction. So I want to thank you all.” — Fernie (101:13)

Tone & Takeaways

This episode is raw, honest, and sometimes confrontational. Ramit brings both empathy and tough love, pushing the couple to recognize their entrenched roles and the unsustainability of continuing in denial. The episode provides a powerful look at how money is tied to identity, partnership, and familial legacy—offering hope that even long-standing patterns can shift with honesty, partnership, and a plan.

For listeners: If you feel alone in your financial struggles or stuck in a relationship dynamic that doesn’t serve you or your family, this episode shows both the difficulty and necessity of confronting reality, asking for help, and building a new vision together.