Money For Couples with Ramit Sethi

Episode 225: “We’re losing $5k/mo. Where is it all going?”

Original Air Date: September 9, 2025
Host: Ramit Sethi
Guests: Lashawn (50) and David (49)

Overview

In this deeply moving episode, Ramit Sethi sits down with married couple Lashawn and David, whose financial and personal lives have just been deeply disrupted. Lashawn, the long-time financial leader of her family, recently made the difficult choice to retire early from her federal job due to a terminal cancer diagnosis. As household income plummets, they discover an eye-popping $5,000 a month in "guilt-free spending" with no clear idea of where it’s all going. Ramit helps them unravel not just the numbers, but the underlying roles, identities, and anxieties that surface as they shift from survival mode towards creating meaningful time together.

The episode is not just about crunching numbers—it's a raw, compassionate journey into family dynamics, fear, legacy, and what it means to build a Rich Life when time is running short.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Crisis and Context: Retirement Decision Under Duress

• Lashawn’s Sudden Retirement: Explains she took early retirement due to an uncertain job situation after a new federal administration forced changes to remote work accommodations.

• Terminal Cancer Diagnosis: Lashawn’s cancer returned as metastatic and incurable. She is clear-eyed, practical, but it’s triggered deep anxiety about her family’s future.

• Decision Timeline: The couple had only days to make the retirement decision—a key source of Lashawn's current panic.

  “The fear is probably the big one...how do we maintain our life, pay our bills, and...how do we make sure that however many years that I have, we are in a good position and then even when I'm gone, that he's in a good position...”
  —Lashawn (03:22)

• David’s Support: He supported the retirement, seeing it as the best option given government pressures and Lashawn’s health.

2. The Numbers: Clarity on Finances

• Their Financial Snapshot (as of beginning of episode):

  • Assets: $586,952

  • Investments: $824,198

  • Savings: $30,377

  • Debt: $227,457

  • Total Net Worth: ~$1.2 Million

  • Fixed Costs: 50% of income

  • Savings: 6%

  • Guilt-Free Spending: 44% ($5,000/month)

  • Investments: 0% of monthly take-home (but large pre-tax holdings)

  • Current annual combined income: ~$217,000/month

  • Lashawn's sudden drop in income anticipated: from $9,500/month to $6,700/month pre-tax after retirement.

  “Honestly, these numbers look pretty great for a couple in their late 40s, early 50s, but I suspect these numbers are going to change quite a bit with one income coming down...So I have a lot of questions.”
  —Ramit (01:47)

• Discovery: Neither knows specifically where the “$5,000/month” in spending is going.

3. Tracking the Mystery Expenses

• Eating Out: Initially estimated at five times a week; actual likely closer to 15 due to kitchen being unusable.

• Vacations: Two cruises last year ($5,500 & $8,000), gifts ($2,000/year), movies, gym memberships.

• Debt Payments Masking Spending: Lashawn realizes she's been putting large sums toward debt, which skews the “guilt-free” number.

• Children's Costs: Support for three kids (23, 18, 13).

  "Whatever they tell me for eating out...Triple it and we will get there. It is cosmically true."
  —Ramit (24:45)

4. Roles & Emotional Dynamics Around Money

• Lashawn is the "financial leader": meticulously tracks, plans, pays down debts, automates (but also manually double-pays).

• David: “ignorant reassurer”—offers verbal reassurance (“it’ll be fine!”) while leaving the details to Lashawn.

• Lashawn has repeatedly asked David to be more involved (over 15 years!), but defaulted back to doing it herself.

  “When something goes on repeatedly for years and years...you just start to think like, that's the way it is. It can't change.”
  —Ramit (52:44)

• Project Manager Identity: Lashawn's sense of safety/control comes from tracking every dollar, which has roots in a childhood of financial instability.

  "I had a lot of moving around and just being unsure...My sense of creating a safe environment is very much wrapped up in making sure bills are paid."
  —Lashawn (38:42, 62:06)

• David buys sneakers (150+ pairs) he couldn't afford as a child. Spends guilt-free now, fulfilling old wishes.

• Both realize that the dynamic—one person in control, the other passive—won't work as Lashawn’s illness progresses.

5. Emotional Challenges and New Roles

• Unlocking Deeper Fears:

  • For Lashawn, it’s not just about outliving her savings, but whether her family can survive—and thrive—without her managing everything.
  • For David, it’s about stepping into a leadership/support role out of love and necessity, not default.

  “If you were not here tomorrow, it would be very chaotic with the family finances...You haven’t really engaged with money as a team in like 20 years...now we see the end game...”
  —Ramit (51:18)

• Letting Go and Playing Big: Ramit encourages Lashawn to hand over "project manager" duties and instead design the family's remaining years for joy, memories, and legacy.

  "Right now, the worldview, the project manager lenses that you have put on are actually preventing you from doing that...What is your vision for this family, with this family for my remaining time? Surely your vision has got to be bigger and more powerful than paying bills."
  —Ramit (61:00)

• Creating New Traditions and Big Moments:

  • Letting the kids order drinks at dinners, starting family meetings, involving David and kids in planning trips and finances.
  • Making legacy about joy, connection, and capability for her family after she’s gone.

6. Key Action Steps & Agreements

• David commits to becoming the "enabler": taking over finances, involving the kids, and supporting Lashawn emotionally and practically.

• Lashawn agrees to loosen her grip on control and accept help, focusing on meaningful time and memory-making.

• Plan to consult a flat-fee financial advisor for scenario planning (death, income changes, insurance).

• Scheduled money meetings, shared passwords, and transparent bill tracking.

  “Whatever it takes, I’ll take it…David is saying, I’m willing to step up and take some of that load off. Are you hearing it?”
  —Ramit (56:36)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Childhood Money Lessons:

  “When I pay my credit card and it goes down to zero, I am so happy… It was always, like, a sense of security and safety because I didn’t have that when I was younger.”
  —Lashawn (39:59)

• Facing Mortality:

  “One of the things you want is to make sure your family is protected. …If you were not here tomorrow, it would be very chaotic with the family finances.”
  —Ramit (51:18)

• Letting Go:

  “It would be so nice to have him do all of that thinking every day instead of me doing that thinking every day.”
  —Lashawn (56:24)

• Project Manager vs. Life Partner:

  “Let’s take those lenses off and let’s come into this relationship not as a project manager…Who are you now that you’ve taken those project manager lenses off?”
  —Ramit (59:07)

  “A wife. And a mom. A good friend. A person who loves to travel with my family.”
  —Lashawn (59:07-59:21)

• Designing a Rich Life:

  “Spend as much time together as a family. Traveling, exercising, trying new recipes, meeting friends for lunch...That would be an amazing way to spend my day.”
  —Lashawn (62:44-63:09)

• Making Change Visible:

  "When you take those lenses off and you go, what do we actually want to do? And we actually can do most of the things, that's a different role."
  —Ramit (74:52)

• Legacy Moment:

  "Because we can afford it and it's a small thing that you enjoy. So we want to be able to enjoy the small and big things."
  —Lashawn, on finally letting the kids order sodas at dinner (78:05)

• Closing Reflection:

  “How do you feel now versus when we started our conversation?”
  “I feel like I see the possibility for joy.”
  —Lashawn (95:55-96:00)

Important Timestamps

• Decision Context & Panic: 03:22 – 11:07
• Net Worth Reveal & Family Roles: 16:53 – 21:22
• Spending Mystery & Expenses Breakdown: 23:01 – 27:02
• Debt Details & Impulse Spending: 31:33 – 33:38
• Childhood Money Psychology: 38:42 – 43:07
• Letting Go of Old Roles: 47:33 – 53:21
• Transition Plan & Emotional Labor: 55:43 – 62:34
• Redesigning the Spending Plan: 81:26 – 86:57
• Family Legacy and Joy: 91:18 – 94:01
• Episode Closing & Takeaways: 99:11 – 101:21

Conclusion and Takeaways

This episode is a masterclass in how money, identity, and relationships intersect—especially under the shadow of mortality. Ramit shows not only how to unravel technical financial confusion but also how to transform roles built for survival into a legacy focused on joy, connection, and long-term empowerment.

Major Lessons:

• The real emotional labor is not in numbers, but in letting go and letting others step up.
• Building a Rich Life in crisis means shifting from “project manager” to architect of joy and memory.
• Even deep family roles and identities can—and sometimes must—change.
• Transparency, communication, and intentionality are as important as the “right” budget or investment.

Follow-Up:
In the follow-up, Lashawn and David report real change—they shared credentials, reviewed all bills together, and had their first true "money meeting." Both recognize the importance of moving forward as a team, not just as individuals with roles calcified by habit and fear.

“I feel challenged. I feel like there’s something for me to prove...I’m willing to take on that challenge and be the leader.”
—David (95:32)

Final Reflection

What if the ultimate goal is not just financial survival, but joy, togetherness, and memories—especially when time is short?
This episode answers that question with humility, honesty, and hope.

(For listeners seeking practical guidance, Ramit references his free tools and recommends seeking a flat-fee financial advisor for scenario planning. He encourages all couples, regardless of circumstance, to communicate openly, automate what can be automated, and design a Rich Life unique to their values.)

For further resources and bonus mini-course: iwt.com/mindsetpod