Transcript

Ramit Sethi (0:00)

Are you worried about your parents getting older? What if they haven't saved enough for retirement? What if they expect help but they're not willing to talk about it right now? Or what if they want to move in with you? This October 27th, I'm co hosting a special online event just for you. It's called Money for Aging Parents. And I'll be joined by Beth Pinsker, Market Watch retirement columnist and certified financial planner to cover these tough conversations that are so often avoided. We're going to talk about how to find out what your parents have actually saved, how to talk about expectations without guilt, and how to set boundaries before it becomes a crisis. This event is free for members of my Money Coaching program which also has tons of amazing live events like this coming up. You get access to a library of all past calls, by the way. So if you want to join this special Money for Aging Parents event, plus get access to a community of like minded people who are living their rich life, you should join Money Coaching today. Go to iwt.com moneycoaching to join right now. I will see you there.

David (1:09)

I went through $200,000 of cryptocurrency and I treated it as income instead of going out and finding a job because my head was in the clouds.

Angela (1:18)

There's no coherence between what we say we want and what we're actually doing.

David (1:23)

For the entirety of last year, my mother was paying all of her expenses. She's supported us so much to the point where she's put herself in a financially difficult position.

Ramit Sethi (1:32)

You don't think it's interesting to have a mechanical engineering degree and be living with your mom who is now in $90,000 of credit card debt from supporting you?

David (1:39)

No, I don't.

Angela (1:41)

These things feel like we're failing, like I can't do what I want to do.

Ramit Sethi (1:45)

I don't think you're setting the expectations for yourself high enough because there are minimum wage jobs that could pay you more than you are making right now.

Angela (1:52)

We're improvising everything. We don't know anything. Like we're just improvising.

Ramit Sethi (1:56)

Today I'm talking to Angela and David, a couple in their early 30s with a five year old daughter living in a two bedroom house with David's mom. That's three adults, one child, one house. And the plan is to save for a down payment on a house of their own. That was the plan almost a year ago. Unfortunately, despite the free rent, despite living with grandma, despite, as they put it, trying to get their shit together, they are still Broke and still wondering why nothing is changing. And that is why they're here, to figure out where all their money's going and why that money keeps slipping through their fingers. Angela laid it out in their application and I have to tell you, this is one of the most brutally honest things that I've read. In it she writes, quote, we have faced many challenges over the course of seven years together. David had investments when I met him and at some point he had up to $100,000. However, instead of being extra smart about it, we had a kid refused to get jobs or got jobs that paid too little and quit. Lived a rich life as if we were actually rich, but only with investments. And well, obviously we blew all the investments out. We live with David's mom and even like that, it doesn't seem like we are saving enough or doing well enough with our money. If you've ever looked back at your last five years and thought, how did we end up here? This episode is for you. Let's check out their numbers. I'm going to pull up their conscious spending plan right now which tells me how much they make, how much they spend and what their four key numbers are. If you want to run the numbers the same way I do, download your free conscious spending plan@iwt.com CSP hit. Here we go. Assets $4,000. Investments $761. Savings $4,242. Debt $34,632 for a total net worth of $25,629. Fixed costs 55% which seems outstanding. But then you have to remember they do not pay rent. Investments 10% savings 17% guilt free spending 24%. Okay, well, they're doing some of the right things, but candidly, their dream of buying a home is not a reality. I look through their numbers and I have a lot of questions like how did you blow through your money? How did you decide to live with your mom? And living with your mom not paying rent, where's the money going? So let's get into it with Angela and David. What's it like day to day? You have a two bedroom place, five year old daughter and your mom is there.

Summary

Money For Couples with Ramit Sethi

Episode 231 — “Our $200k in crypto is gone. Now we live with his mom.”
Date: October 21, 2025
Host: Ramit Sethi
Guests: Angela & David

Overview:

This episode of Money for Couples focuses on Angela and David, a couple in their early 30s, parents to a 5-year-old daughter, who are living with David’s mother after losing $200,000 in crypto investments. Their situation encapsulates themes of financial improvisation, generational patterns around money, the dangers of being “Dreamers,” and building a plan—rather than a wish—to regain stability and build a future. Ramit coaches the couple with his trademark blend of empathy and tough love, highlighting the need for structure, honest self-assessment, and alignment of actions with stated values.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Current Living Situation & Its Consequences

Angela, David, their daughter, and David’s mother share a two-bedroom home.
- Impact: Overcrowding, no privacy, generational friction, and high daily stress for Angela (10/10), less so for David (2/10).
- Angela: “It's always stressful because it's a small space... Our daughter sleeps with us... My mother-in-law gets upset... It's very stressful.” (04:27)
- David feels defensive, acts as a peacekeeper, and internalizes Angela’s stress.
- Ramit: Highlights the mismatch in stress perceptions and lack of a clear plan to move out.

2. How They Lost $200,000 in Crypto

David cashed out investments and used them as income rather than securing employment.
- “I went through $200,000 of cryptocurrency and I treated it as income instead of going out and finding a job because my head was in the clouds.” (01:09)
- Spending Patterns: Paid rent in advance, ate out frequently, and lived as if income were recurring.
- Angela acknowledges their joint irresponsibility.
- Ramit: “Dreamers are forever optimistic, but they will almost never look at real numbers. And that is the cost of being a dreamer. Time slips by. Nothing really changes.” (39:30)

3. Cycles of Improvising & Failed Planning

Repeated “plans” that were actually wishes:
- “Move in, save, buy house, or declare bankruptcy and start fresh,” but always lacked real numbers or concrete steps.
- Angela: “We’re improvising everything. We don’t know anything. Like, we’re just improvising.” (01:52, 32:18)
- Ramit: Emphasizes the need for actual financial structure: “You can improvise for a while. But you can never improvise your way to a rich life.” (34:06)

4. Mismatch Between Values & Actions

Stated goals (buying a home, saving, investing) were not matched by behaviors (overspending, not tracking, continued guilt-free spending)
- Angela: “There's no coherence between what we say we want and what we're actually doing.” (01:18, 38:09)

5. Family Financial Backgrounds & Generational Dynamics

Angela’s experience: Chaotic, support from her grandmother, father’s financial mismanagement, mother’s solo financial struggles.
- “My mom is a dentist… I remember being in second grade and getting pulled out of the classroom because [dad] was not paying for school.” (53:10)
David’s family: Grew up secure, but disaster struck after his father’s death and his mother began overspending massively.
- “She’s racked up $90,000 of credit card debt, she’s taken out a second mortgage on her home.” (48:13)
- Angela’s grandmother and now David’s mother have, in turn, subsidized their lives.

6. Money Roles in the Relationship

Recurring Parent-Child Dynamic: David acts as the “grounder” and provider, Angela as the non-confrontational, avoidant partner.
- Ramit: “What would it look like in a healthy dynamic with money?”
- Angela: “I've always told myself I can't stand numbers. So I've stepped into that of 'you tell me if we can or not.' A healthy way would be being aware and making decisions together.” (62:51)
Consequence: Lack of joint vision and defaulting to unhealthy scripts from childhood.

7. Reality Check: The Numbers

Assets: ~$4,000
Investments: $761 (primarily in crypto)
Savings: ~$4,500
Debt: $34,632 (mostly a car loan)
Net Worth: negative $25,629
Monthly Household Income: $9,854 (~$118,000/yr)
- Angela didn’t know the actual figure; David thought it was more. (26:32-26:54)
Fixed Costs at 55%—but with no rent or utilities. As soon as rent is included, affordability collapses.
- Ramit: “If you add housing costs, we’re talking 75, 85%. You essentially cannot do it.”

8. Spending Habits: Where Is The Money Going?

Guilt-free Spending Severely Underestimated: Not tracked, often double what they estimate.
- Dining out: Realized they collectively ate out up to 11 times per week! (37:05)
Investments: All in crypto, despite their history.
- Ramit: “Why put $400 towards crypto when you have $34,000 of debt?” (33:38)
Angela’s Courses & Retreats: ~$15,000 over five years, with limited career benefit—procrastination disguised as self-investment. (38:48-39:07)
- “I feel like I have gotten new skills, but I’m not actually using them.” (39:00)

9. Building a Realistic Plan

Ramit guides them to create a genuine conscious spending plan:
- Cutting school costs (moving daughter to a charter/public school)
- Taking a modest rental in Colorado (2br for $1,800 vs. $2,500)
- Reducing subscriptions, groceries, clothes, and tracking all spending
- Investment strategy: No more crypto until diversified and debts addressed
- Bucket system for guilt-free spending: four buckets (Angela, David, relationship, family) (75:40)
- Setting up a moving fund and emergency savings
- Goal: Move out by June, with $5,000 for moving expenses and six months of savings
- Angela to increase income via childbirth education, more private clients
- David to consider side gigs (woodworking/furniture), and reduce eating out (92:48-93:12)
- Plan to offer David’s mom $200/month to partially repay her support.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

They Confront Their Patterns:

Angela: “I think frustration is a natural feeling... [but] these things feel like we're failing. Like I can't do what I want to do.” (23:01)
David (on his mother’s debt): “She’s supported us so much to the point where she’s put herself in a financially difficult position.” (23:23, 48:11)
Ramit: “People who are in debt will do everything except pay their debt. Literally, they'll do every thing on the planet... except pay the debt.” (12:25-12:37)

On “Dreamers”:

Ramit: “Dreamers believe that something like a new gig, a big break, the universe is going to magically solve their problems. But dreamers can only afford to think this way because they are almost always supported by someone else.” (57:08)
Angela (on courses): “I will always say I'm only going to do this one, and then there's always going to be another one that's going to come up... feels like it's the one that I want to take.” (38:22)
Ramit: “It is expensive procrastination disguised as self development.” (39:30)

Eye-opening Numbers:

Angela, reading net worth box: “Assets, four thousand. Investments, 761. Savings, 4,500. Debt, 34,632. Total net worth, negative 25,629.” (25:34)
Angela, on not knowing their income: “No, in my head, it was like a hundred thousand.” (26:49)
Ramit: “The way you feel about money is highly uncorrelated with the amount in your bank account. Round of applause for Ramit Sethi.” (27:07)

Repeating Childhood Patterns:

Angela: “My mom is a dentist... we lived with my grandmother for a long time because my dad was always in trouble… I remember being in second grade and getting pulled out of the classroom because [he] was not paying for school.” (53:10)
David: “My mother has a very limited perspective around money... She’s racked up $90,000 of credit card debt...” (48:11)

Actionable Shifts:

Angela: “For the first time since we've been together, it feels like we are finally not improvising every single move in our financial lives, but actually taking coherent steps towards the lives we want to live.” (Closing update)
Ramit, setting a challenge: “Trying to avoid failure is like trying to avoid getting wet in the ocean. You will fail. Accept it. Plan for it.” (96:17)

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|--------------------------------------------------------| | 01:09 | David admits to blowing $200k in crypto | | 04:27 | Angela describes daily stress of living with MIL | | 07:37 | How they ended up living with David’s mom | | 11:18 | Flawed “plan” to buy a house while ignoring debt | | 14:14 | What did they spend the crypto on? | | 23:33 | Ramit reframes frustration over not affording wants | | 29:53 | Breaking down the fixed costs; holes in their planning | | 37:05 | Realization about actual dining-out frequency | | 39:00 | Angela’s $15k in courses with no clear payoff | | 48:13 | David’s mom has $90,000 in credit card debt | | 53:10 | Angela’s family money trauma & parallels today | | 62:51 | Parent-child dynamic in their partnership | | 66:13 | Simulating moving out; confronting unaffordable costs | | 69:08 | Accepting a smaller, less expensive apartment | | 75:40 | Four-bucket system for guilt-free spending | | 77:05 | Plan to send David’s mom $200/month as repayment | | 80:09 | Angela recognizes retreats/course-taking as sabotage | | 86:12 | Angela’s plan to increase income is outlined | | 93:43 | David’s exhaustion & plans for earning extra | | 94:46 | Final reflections and takeaways | | 96:17 | Ramit reframes fear of failure for Angela |

Tone & Takeaways

Tone: Direct, honest, sometimes tough but compassionate. Ramit probes into their emotions and family dynamics without judgment, but with insistence on accountability.
Key Messages:
- Wishes are not plans—clarity, numbers, and structure are essential.
- Generational patterns of rescue and avoidance must be broken if lasting change is to occur.
- Tracking spending is non-negotiable; “feeling” your way through finances does not work.
- Major life changes require boring, repetitive actions, not magical breakthroughs.
- Learning to communicate and plan together—rather than defaulting to roles or avoidance—can transform a relationship and a financial future.

Memorable Moment:

Angela, in her update:

“For the first time since we've been together, it feels like we are finally not improvising every single move in our financial lives, but actually taking coherent steps towards the lives we want to live.”

Listen to this episode if...

… you (or someone you know) are stuck in a financial rut, “dreaming” of change but repeating old patterns.
… you’ve had financial support from family and feel guilty or want to break the cycle.
… you and your partner struggle to align your financial goals with actual habits.
… you’re ready to learn how numbers, not feelings, must drive your financial decisions.

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231. “Our $200k in crypto is gone. Now we live with his mom.”