Money For Couples with Ramit Sethi

Episode 231 — “Our $200k in crypto is gone. Now we live with his mom.”
Date: October 21, 2025
Host: Ramit Sethi
Guests: Angela & David

Overview:

This episode of Money for Couples focuses on Angela and David, a couple in their early 30s, parents to a 5-year-old daughter, who are living with David’s mother after losing $200,000 in crypto investments. Their situation encapsulates themes of financial improvisation, generational patterns around money, the dangers of being “Dreamers,” and building a plan—rather than a wish—to regain stability and build a future. Ramit coaches the couple with his trademark blend of empathy and tough love, highlighting the need for structure, honest self-assessment, and alignment of actions with stated values.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Current Living Situation & Its Consequences

• Angela, David, their daughter, and David’s mother share a two-bedroom home.
  • Impact: Overcrowding, no privacy, generational friction, and high daily stress for Angela (10/10), less so for David (2/10).
  • Angela: “It's always stressful because it's a small space... Our daughter sleeps with us... My mother-in-law gets upset... It's very stressful.” (04:27)
  • David feels defensive, acts as a peacekeeper, and internalizes Angela’s stress.
  • Ramit: Highlights the mismatch in stress perceptions and lack of a clear plan to move out.

2. How They Lost $200,000 in Crypto

• David cashed out investments and used them as income rather than securing employment.
  • “I went through $200,000 of cryptocurrency and I treated it as income instead of going out and finding a job because my head was in the clouds.” (01:09)
  • Spending Patterns: Paid rent in advance, ate out frequently, and lived as if income were recurring.
  • Angela acknowledges their joint irresponsibility.
  • Ramit: “Dreamers are forever optimistic, but they will almost never look at real numbers. And that is the cost of being a dreamer. Time slips by. Nothing really changes.” (39:30)

3. Cycles of Improvising & Failed Planning

• Repeated “plans” that were actually wishes:
  • “Move in, save, buy house, or declare bankruptcy and start fresh,” but always lacked real numbers or concrete steps.
  • Angela: “We’re improvising everything. We don’t know anything. Like, we’re just improvising.” (01:52, 32:18)
  • Ramit: Emphasizes the need for actual financial structure: “You can improvise for a while. But you can never improvise your way to a rich life.” (34:06)

4. Mismatch Between Values & Actions

• Stated goals (buying a home, saving, investing) were not matched by behaviors (overspending, not tracking, continued guilt-free spending)
  • Angela: “There's no coherence between what we say we want and what we're actually doing.” (01:18, 38:09)

5. Family Financial Backgrounds & Generational Dynamics

• Angela’s experience: Chaotic, support from her grandmother, father’s financial mismanagement, mother’s solo financial struggles.
  • “My mom is a dentist… I remember being in second grade and getting pulled out of the classroom because [dad] was not paying for school.” (53:10)
• David’s family: Grew up secure, but disaster struck after his father’s death and his mother began overspending massively.
  • “She’s racked up $90,000 of credit card debt, she’s taken out a second mortgage on her home.” (48:13)
  • Angela’s grandmother and now David’s mother have, in turn, subsidized their lives.

6. Money Roles in the Relationship

• Recurring Parent-Child Dynamic: David acts as the “grounder” and provider, Angela as the non-confrontational, avoidant partner.
  • Ramit: “What would it look like in a healthy dynamic with money?”
  • Angela: “I've always told myself I can't stand numbers. So I've stepped into that of 'you tell me if we can or not.' A healthy way would be being aware and making decisions together.” (62:51)
• Consequence: Lack of joint vision and defaulting to unhealthy scripts from childhood.

7. Reality Check: The Numbers

• Assets: ~$4,000
• Investments: $761 (primarily in crypto)
• Savings: ~$4,500
• Debt: $34,632 (mostly a car loan)
• Net Worth: negative $25,629
• Monthly Household Income: $9,854 (~$118,000/yr)
  • Angela didn’t know the actual figure; David thought it was more. (26:32-26:54)
• Fixed Costs at 55%—but with no rent or utilities. As soon as rent is included, affordability collapses.
  • Ramit: “If you add housing costs, we’re talking 75, 85%. You essentially cannot do it.”

8. Spending Habits: Where Is The Money Going?

• Guilt-free Spending Severely Underestimated: Not tracked, often double what they estimate.
  • Dining out: Realized they collectively ate out up to 11 times per week! (37:05)
• Investments: All in crypto, despite their history.
  • Ramit: “Why put $400 towards crypto when you have $34,000 of debt?” (33:38)
• Angela’s Courses & Retreats: ~$15,000 over five years, with limited career benefit—procrastination disguised as self-investment. (38:48-39:07)
  • “I feel like I have gotten new skills, but I’m not actually using them.” (39:00)

9. Building a Realistic Plan

• Ramit guides them to create a genuine conscious spending plan:
  • Cutting school costs (moving daughter to a charter/public school)
  • Taking a modest rental in Colorado (2br for $1,800 vs. $2,500)
  • Reducing subscriptions, groceries, clothes, and tracking all spending
  • Investment strategy: No more crypto until diversified and debts addressed
  • Bucket system for guilt-free spending: four buckets (Angela, David, relationship, family) (75:40)
  • Setting up a moving fund and emergency savings
  • Goal: Move out by June, with $5,000 for moving expenses and six months of savings
  • Angela to increase income via childbirth education, more private clients
  • David to consider side gigs (woodworking/furniture), and reduce eating out (92:48-93:12)
  • Plan to offer David’s mom $200/month to partially repay her support.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

They Confront Their Patterns:

• Angela: “I think frustration is a natural feeling... [but] these things feel like we're failing. Like I can't do what I want to do.” (23:01)
• David (on his mother’s debt): “She’s supported us so much to the point where she’s put herself in a financially difficult position.” (23:23, 48:11)
• Ramit: “People who are in debt will do everything except pay their debt. Literally, they'll do every thing on the planet... except pay the debt.” (12:25-12:37)

On “Dreamers”:

• Ramit: “Dreamers believe that something like a new gig, a big break, the universe is going to magically solve their problems. But dreamers can only afford to think this way because they are almost always supported by someone else.” (57:08)
• Angela (on courses): “I will always say I'm only going to do this one, and then there's always going to be another one that's going to come up... feels like it's the one that I want to take.” (38:22)
• Ramit: “It is expensive procrastination disguised as self development.” (39:30)

Eye-opening Numbers:

• Angela, reading net worth box: “Assets, four thousand. Investments, 761. Savings, 4,500. Debt, 34,632. Total net worth, negative 25,629.” (25:34)
• Angela, on not knowing their income: “No, in my head, it was like a hundred thousand.” (26:49)
• Ramit: “The way you feel about money is highly uncorrelated with the amount in your bank account. Round of applause for Ramit Sethi.” (27:07)

Repeating Childhood Patterns:

• Angela: “My mom is a dentist... we lived with my grandmother for a long time because my dad was always in trouble… I remember being in second grade and getting pulled out of the classroom because [he] was not paying for school.” (53:10)
• David: “My mother has a very limited perspective around money... She’s racked up $90,000 of credit card debt...” (48:11)

Actionable Shifts:

• Angela: “For the first time since we've been together, it feels like we are finally not improvising every single move in our financial lives, but actually taking coherent steps towards the lives we want to live.” (Closing update)
• Ramit, setting a challenge: “Trying to avoid failure is like trying to avoid getting wet in the ocean. You will fail. Accept it. Plan for it.” (96:17)

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|--------------------------------------------------------| | 01:09 | David admits to blowing $200k in crypto | | 04:27 | Angela describes daily stress of living with MIL | | 07:37 | How they ended up living with David’s mom | | 11:18 | Flawed “plan” to buy a house while ignoring debt | | 14:14 | What did they spend the crypto on? | | 23:33 | Ramit reframes frustration over not affording wants | | 29:53 | Breaking down the fixed costs; holes in their planning | | 37:05 | Realization about actual dining-out frequency | | 39:00 | Angela’s $15k in courses with no clear payoff | | 48:13 | David’s mom has $90,000 in credit card debt | | 53:10 | Angela’s family money trauma & parallels today | | 62:51 | Parent-child dynamic in their partnership | | 66:13 | Simulating moving out; confronting unaffordable costs | | 69:08 | Accepting a smaller, less expensive apartment | | 75:40 | Four-bucket system for guilt-free spending | | 77:05 | Plan to send David’s mom $200/month as repayment | | 80:09 | Angela recognizes retreats/course-taking as sabotage | | 86:12 | Angela’s plan to increase income is outlined | | 93:43 | David’s exhaustion & plans for earning extra | | 94:46 | Final reflections and takeaways | | 96:17 | Ramit reframes fear of failure for Angela |

Tone & Takeaways

• Tone: Direct, honest, sometimes tough but compassionate. Ramit probes into their emotions and family dynamics without judgment, but with insistence on accountability.
• Key Messages:
  • Wishes are not plans—clarity, numbers, and structure are essential.
  • Generational patterns of rescue and avoidance must be broken if lasting change is to occur.
  • Tracking spending is non-negotiable; “feeling” your way through finances does not work.
  • Major life changes require boring, repetitive actions, not magical breakthroughs.
  • Learning to communicate and plan together—rather than defaulting to roles or avoidance—can transform a relationship and a financial future.

Memorable Moment:

Angela, in her update:

“For the first time since we've been together, it feels like we are finally not improvising every single move in our financial lives, but actually taking coherent steps towards the lives we want to live.”

Listen to this episode if...

• … you (or someone you know) are stuck in a financial rut, “dreaming” of change but repeating old patterns.
• … you’ve had financial support from family and feel guilty or want to break the cycle.
• … you and your partner struggle to align your financial goals with actual habits.
• … you’re ready to learn how numbers, not feelings, must drive your financial decisions.