Money For Couples with Ramit Sethi

Episode 240: “We book $10K vacations, then panic about money”
Date: December 23, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Ramit guides Cheryl (67) and Michael (69)—a married couple of 12 years, both college professors—through the tangled web of their financial relationship. Despite having a combined net worth over $800,000 and yearly income near $191,000, they frequently butt heads over spending, especially on travel. As Cheryl, a cancer survivor, leans into “living for now,” Michael’s cautious approach, framed by his Depression-era family background, often causes tension and confusion. The episode dives deep into the psychology, history, and structure of their finances, exposing how personal and generational stories shape money decisions in marriage.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Getting Specific About Your Rich Life

[00:00–01:24]

• Ramit opens with his core philosophy: “Get more specific. People say, I want to travel more...Okay, this is your rich life. Get more specific.”
• He stresses that money conversations shouldn’t be about abstractions (“travel more”), but about the details—where, with whom, and how you’re experiencing life.

2. The Faroe Islands Vacation Dilemma

[01:24–02:53, 05:32–06:27]

• Cheryl and Michael dream of a $10,000+ trip to the Faroe Islands, but immediately hit anxiety about whether they can “afford” it.
• Michael: “It's not like we have $10,000 in cash sitting around that we could just shell out.”
• Cheryl: “We do, actually.”
• This reveals underlying confusion over their actual financial position and communication gaps.

3. Trust, Betrayal, and Lost Money

[01:52–02:09, 09:14–12:13]

• Michael lost $12,000 of inherited money by investing poorly (without telling Cheryl).
• Cheryl: “I really lost it—I felt betrayed...when you make a deal, you stick to it.”
• Michael admits to hiding the loss out of shame, despite knowing the “sunk cost fallacy.”
• Ramit explores how the issue is less about the money itself, more about trust and shared expectations in a relationship.

4. Money Structure—Separate Accounts and ‘Contribution’

[12:30–16:28]

• Their finances are mostly separate; Michael covers house expenses using Social Security and adjunct work, Cheryl handles other expenses including travel.
• Michael repeatedly uses the word “contribute,” which Ramit highlights as common among lower earners in relationships.
• Cheryl recalls how their roles shifted drastically when she developed cancer just six weeks into marriage: “He was so incredibly committed...I never had expectations for him to just...find full-time work.”

5. Conscious Spending Plan Breakdown

[23:34–33:01]

• Cheryl and Michael have $455k in assets, $517k in investments, $42k in savings, $186k debt, for a net worth of $828k.
• Monthly combined gross income: ~$16k.
• Fixed costs are low (37%), savings moderate, guilt-free spending high (33%). Their spending reflects heavy investment in experiences/travel.
• Cheryl: “Should we be saving more aggressively?...Maybe we should be traveling to Connecticut, not the Faroe Islands.”
• Michael: “It is reassuring to see that we're not busted…But still, it feels like we could be doing more.”

6. The Mindset Battle: Living Now vs. Saving for Later

[34:12–39:13]

• Cheryl has “cancer survivor brain”: “What if it comes back, and I haven’t done all the cool things?”
• Michael references longevity (his parents lived to 94): “Will this hold me out until 94?”
• Ramit: “Spending money in retirement is a skill...I talk so often about building the skill of spending money now.”

7. Financial Advisor Disappointment and Why They’re Here

[36:43–39:13]

• They have a financial advisor but feel advice has been generic—“no nuance.”
• Cheryl: “When I started reading your books, you look at it in terms of ‘what is your rich life?’...That’s not what life is like, especially at our age.”
• Ramit: “I don’t really believe your answers...When couples say yes to being here, it means there's a deeper problem.”

8. History Shapes Money Psychology

[49:04–65:45]

• Cheryl’s background: transient and sometimes insecure military childhood, expensive Wall Street life, widowhood, and career changes. She equates money with options and fulfillment but carries childhood scarcity triggers.
  • “I sometimes think, ‘Apparently, I don’t deserve this thing...I realize it’s not that, just that they didn’t have money.’”
• Michael’s background: Depression/WWII survivor parents; mother hypervigilant and controlling with money, father “grasshopper” with money. Michael displays both traits.
• Both discuss how family roles and trauma shaped their financial identity and fears.

9. Marriage Mechanics: Joint Accounts vs. Independence

[69:18–73:46]

• No prenup/postnup; finances largely unmerged. Cheryl resists joint accounts, citing 1970s feminism and observing her mother’s financial dependence. Michael is comfortable with the arrangement.
• Ramit: “There shouldn’t be any financial secrets in a marriage. It is the basis of betrayal...But each partner should have some money of their own.”

10. Visioning ‘Rich Life’ Together

[74:18–79:13]

• Both value travel, music, family experiences—not things.
• Cheryl: “Maybe with some of our kids...still so many places I want to see...I challenged [Michael] to find something, and that’s when he found the music camp in Maine.”
• Michael: “Jazz festivals...Airbnb, couple weeks, always with Cheryl.”
• Ramit: “When we start at the vision, it's this organic, beautiful, living, breathing vision...Too much of our lives when it comes to money, we think of money as inanimate spreadsheet...I'm interested in a beating heart.”

11. Is It Fair? Equity in Contributions

[79:15–84:32]

• Michael pays 64% of his low income towards fixed costs, while Cheryl is able to spend far more freely; but both are comfortable with this division.
• Ramit: “Each couple—as long as they understand the ramifications—you can decide what’s fair for you.”

12. The Math: Can They Afford to Retire?

[84:32–88:30]

• Projections show at age 70, they could withdraw ~$100k/year, less than their current $191k income.
• Cheryl worries about medical costs: “That’s the part sometimes I feel like we’re not factoring....I had to have an MRI and it was $350 copay.”
• Ramit recommends dialing in their fixed costs, reducing guilt-free spending slightly, and demanding more detailed modeling from their advisor.

13. Investments and Fees

[89:16–90:34]

• Ramit flags their current advisor (Ameriprise) for high fees and annuities: “Whenever I see Ameriprise, I see a red flag...Almost guarantee you’re leaking out thousands of dollars per year.”
• Suggests hiring a fiduciary for a one-time check.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“It's not like we have $10,000 in cash sitting around that we could just shell out.”
—Michael, [01:37]

“I really lost it. I felt very much like I had been betrayed in a way. I have the classic cancer survivor brain: what if it comes back and I haven't done all the cool things.”
—Cheryl, [01:56], [02:09]

“How many times do you use the word contribute when it comes to money?”
—Ramit, [14:03]

“The person in a relationship who earns less is almost always obsessed with the word contribution.”
—Ramit, [14:35]

“I sometimes say, I know where the big money's going. I don't know where the little money's going.”
—Cheryl, [17:47]

“If it's not actually physically in my hand, it doesn't really exist.”
—Michael, [06:51]

“Spending money in retirement is a skill. When you develop that skill, the entire transition gets easier.”
—Ramit, [19:52]

“It just seems like, when you make a deal, you stick to it. There's no point in making a plan if you're not going to follow through with what you say you're going to do.”
—Cheryl, [11:22]

“Greed is good.” (in jest)
—Michael, [90:38]

“Life is hard enough. We don't need to create problems if they don't exist.”
—Ramit, [83:52]

“I still think very independently about money and finance…that I should be a little proud of myself for getting to where we are.”
—Cheryl, [93:10]

“Once you know that kind of thing, you can deal with it. Another thing I learned was that I’m not nearly as bad with money as I thought I was...maybe not.”
—Michael, [92:56]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:00–01:24] – Ramit introduces his “get specific with your rich life” philosophy.
• [01:24–02:53] – The Faroe Islands trip sparks a financial debate.
• [09:14–12:13] – The lost inheritance incident and its emotional aftermath.
• [23:34–33:01] – Full conscious spending plan breakdown and analysis.
• [34:12–39:13] – “Living for now” vs. “saving for later”–the couple’s foundational tension.
• [49:04–65:45] – Deep dives into Cheryl and Michael’s upbringings and how they shape their money psychology today.
• [69:18–73:46] – Discussion of financial independence, joint accounts, and differing generational values.
• [74:18–79:13] – Cheryl and Michael describe their ideal “rich life.”
• [84:32–88:30] – Retirement math: can their savings support their ideal lifestyle?
• [89:16–90:34] – Hidden costs: investment advisor fees and annuities red flags.
• [97:26–100:44] – Cheryl and Michael’s follow-up reflections, specific changes made, and their relationship's growth.

Takeaways & Actionable Advice

• Clarity and specificity are crucial in both money conversations and life goals—define exactly what your “rich life” looks like.
• Transparency and trust are non-negotiable. Even modest breaches can feel like betrayals and erode confidence.
• Joint decision-making doesn’t have to mean joint accounts, but uniting around a common system—where both have access and understanding—is vital for true partnership.
• When you pay an advisor, understand their fee structure in detail—ignorance is expensive.
• Build the “skill” of spending thoughtfully today, so you’re prepared for the psychological challenges of spending in retirement.
• Regular rich life reviews (as Ramit does with his wife) help anchor your financial plans in joy, purpose, and partnership.

For listeners:
This episode is a must-hear if you or your partner:

• Struggle with “spender/saver” tension
• Are on your second marriage or blending finances later in life
• Worry about “enough” despite significant assets
• Want to unite around a vision, not just numbers
• Need to get honest about the true fees and value of your financial advisor

The candid, sometimes vulnerable storytelling by Cheryl and Michael, with Ramit’s incisive, empathetic coaching, shows that money is never just about money—it’s always about love, history, trust, and dreams.