241. “We invested our wedding money…in psychedelics”

Summary

Podcast Summary: Money For Couples with Ramit Sethi

Episode 241: “We invested our wedding money…in psychedelics”
Date: December 30, 2025
Host: Ramit Sethi

Overview: Main Theme and Purpose

This episode is a live recording from Ramit Sethi's “Money For Couples” podcast, featuring intimate, honest coaching sessions with two very different couples—Finn & Luna and Monica & Antonio—that yield unexpected revelations about money, values, love, and the invisible weight of family expectations. The episode’s central theme is how money psychology—beliefs, habits, and emotional scripts—shape financial behaviors, often more so than the numbers themselves. Through raw conversations, Ramit guides these couples to not only better systems and plans, but a more compassionate understanding of themselves and each other as they seek to define their own “Rich Life.”

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Finn & Luna: Dreamers, Bitcoin, and $2k in Psychedelic Stocks

(Segment starts ~01:24)

• Background:
  • $20k in assets, $240k in investments (mostly inherited), $60k savings, zero debt.
  • Both left caregiving careers to start a business, earning nearly $100k/year.
  • Admitted to being "unsophisticated" with money, with no monthly investments or savings contributions.
• Quirky Investing Decisions:
  • Used wedding gift money to buy “mushroom stocks” (psychedelic investment; see quote below).
  • Major holding in Bitcoin ($160k out of $240k investments).
  • Also hold a small amount of gold.
• Money Habits and Relationship Dynamics:
  • Tension between dreaming (Luna's tendency) and planning (Finn's desire).
  • Past disagreements over large purchases—e.g., Luna wanted to spend $80k of her inheritance on a converted Sprinter van.
  • Luna freely spends on others (e.g., $250 pants for Finn), less on herself. Admits: “If I have the money...it will get spent until it gets replenished.”
    • [13:56] Luna
  • Finn is more frugal and concerned about sustainability.
  • Together, they’re trying to shift from “drift” to intentional planning.
• Key Quotes & Memorable Moments:
  • [01:24] Ramit: "I understand you all have $2,000 in psychedelic stocks. What the is that?"
  • [16:41] Finn: “We took a couple thousand dollars from our wedding gifts and we bought mushroom stocks. You’ve never been on shroom stocks on Reddit, I’m sure.”
  • [15:42] Luna: “I actually just am not really sure that stocks are super stable...two in the hand is worth one in the bush. So I took it out just in case.”
  • [11:18] Ramit: “Dreamers don’t come in front of me...and then they never, ever admit that they are a dreamer. I love that you’re admitting it.”
  • [19:57] Finn: “I feel like when I talk about having a plan with money or optimizing money, it’s met with, I’m stressing about money...I want us to understand there’s a difference between trying to live our dreams and actually designing a plan that we implement.”
• Ramit’s Guidance:
  • Encouraged learning the “basic language of money”: e.g., compound interest, types of accounts, investment plans.
  • Emphasized that for couples with “dreamer”/“planner” dynamics, the dreamer often needs structure—and the partner needs validation.
  • Urged them not to lose their creative identity, but to add planning as a "new layer."
  • Suggested regular money conversations and using his book as a practical tool.
• Impact/Takeaway: Even creative, unconventional couples can thrive financially—if they learn the basics, talk honestly, and channel their dreams into actionable plans.

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2. Ramit & Wife Cassandra: Marriage with an ‘Optimizer’

(Segment starts ~26:06)

• Personal Insight into Ramit’s Own Relationship:
  • Cassandra shares what it’s like being married to an optimizer (Ramit), emphasizing growth in communication around different “money dials.”
  • Humor around the fact that Ramit, a financial expert, “does not know basic [Excel] formulas” ([27:08] Cassandra).
  • Importance of monthly money meetings, and Ramit’s slip in consistently scheduling them—highlighting that even financial experts can have blind spots ([27:42] Ramit).
• Key Quotes:
  • [27:08] Cassandra: "I was surprised...Ramit does not know basic formulas. I am still waiting."
  • [27:42] Ramit: “You would never miss a work meeting, so why would you miss this meeting—which is even more important than that?”
• Money Psychology:
  • Combining finances was “nerve-wracking” due to divergent upbringings and money scripts.
  • Both did substantial individual work—such as Cassandra hiring a “money mindset coach”—to improve their relationship and communication.
  • Developed emotional vocabulary around money (including putting an “emotions wheel” on their fridge).
• Impact/Takeaway: Long-term financial harmony in marriage requires continual individual growth, open dialogue about feelings, and shared learning—not just spreadsheets.

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3. Monica & Antonio: High Income, Inherited Pressure, and the Cycle of ‘Never Enough’

(Segment starts ~33:24)

• Background:
  • $42k assets, $200k investments, $141k savings, $25k debt; net worth ~$359k.
  • Earn a combined $235k/year, but “don’t feel like it’s enough.”
  • Both are first-generation Americans with deep family obligations: Monica’s parents immigrated from Mexico.
• Money Scripts Inherited from Upbringing:
  • Monica: Grew up with “can’t afford it” as the recurring message and experienced frequent parental fights about money ([37:10] Monica).
  • Antonio: Learned that “people with money did something wrong to get it,” but changed his view after attending a high-income college.
  • Both carry invisible pressures—Monica to support her aging parents, Antonio to help his own family, especially his father.
  • Recently combined households with Monica’s parents for mutual support.
• Current Financial Friction:
  • High fixed costs (68% of income), low investing/savings rates, 31% “guilt-free spending.”
  • Both admit they haven’t adjusted lifestyle after Monica cut back at work.
  • Carry the latent goal/burden of buying a house with an ADU for extended family in California—an almost unreachable bar.
• Key Quotes & Moments:
  • [34:06] Monica: “My parents immigrated...they gave up their whole lives...and it is super important to me that they know that they're going to be taken care of.”
  • [47:09] Monica: (On her relationship with money:) “Push, pull. Sometimes I feel good and happy about [money]; when I avoid or get overwhelmed, I get very anxious.”
  • [49:20] Ramit: “Do we really have to do this thing again?...That’s a high income. And don’t pull that on me. Not in San Francisco.”
  • [59:55] Monica: (After Ramit notes their impossibly high standard): “Never thought of it that way.”
  • [60:16] Ramit: “What a tragedy to have accomplished as much as the two of you have—and to never feel like it’s enough.”
• Ramit’s Guidance:
  • Identifies their unconscious pattern of setting the “bar” so high (e.g., house with ADU) that they continually feel behind.
  • Encourages celebrating how far they’ve come and focusing on actionable, realistic goals.
  • Concrete advice: cut guilt-free spending by half, divert those funds to investments, use car payment funds for investing when loan is done. Assures them: “You’ll have over $2 million in retirement.”
  • Empathizes deeply with multi-generational, cultural, and psychological undercurrents (“Those quiet expectations were always there...not always said, but well understood.” [44:53] Ramit).
• Emotional Resolution:
  • Ramit surprises Monica with a message from her parents, celebrating the “passing of the torch” and their pride in Monica and Antonio.
  • Monica’s emotional response: gratitude, affirmation of generational legacy.
• Impact/Takeaway: Deeply internalized family expectations can drive successful, high-earning couples to continually feel behind. True progress comes not from more budgeting, but rewriting the internal money story to balance responsibility and self-care.

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4. Year-Later Follow-Ups: Real Progress

(Follow-up segment ~67:49 on)

• Finn & Luna:
  • Adopted regular “study time” and weekly check-ins.
  • Opened their first IRA, investment accounts, and credit card.
  • Shifted from speculative investments (bitcoin, psychedelics) to straightforward S&P 500 index funds and a “boring” wealth-building system.
  • “We started to agree that building wealth should be boring...we got out while we were on top.” [70:54] Finn
• Monica & Antonio:
  • Reduced spending by 30–40%.
  • Fully funded Roth IRAs, began saving consistently.
  • Used emergency fund when Antonio got laid off, but felt empowered rather than vulnerable.
  • Monica reframed savings as “freedom” rather than anxiety.
  • “My view on what our savings should go to...has changed completely. I now see all our savings as freedom.” [71:48] Monica

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Timestamps for Notable Segments

• $2,000 in psychedelic stocks: [01:24], [16:41]
• Finn & Luna's inheritance and van debate: [06:29]–[08:45]
• Bitcoin-heavy portfolio: [14:52]–[15:07]
• Definition of a "dreamer": [11:18]
• Money psychology in Ramit/Cassandra marriage: [27:08]–[29:19]
• Monica’s family background & immigrant obligation: [34:06]–[35:14]
• Push-pull relationship with money: [47:09]
• “Not enough” syndrome analyzed: [59:55]
• Year-later follow-ups: [67:49]–[73:04]

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Memorable Quotes (With Attribution and Timestamps)

• [01:24] Ramit: “I understand you all have $2,000 in psychedelic stocks. What the is that?”
• [11:18] Ramit: “Dreamers don’t come in front of me. Like, seeing a dreamer is rare...I love that you’re admitting it.”
• [13:56] Luna: “If I have the money, for example, in my checking account, then it will get spent until it gets replenished.”
• [19:57] Finn: “I realized how out of touch I was with our real numbers.”
• [27:08] Cassandra: “I was very surprised...Ramit does not know basic formulas. So I’m still waiting.”
• [34:06] Monica: “My parents immigrated to the US...it is super important to me that they know that they're going to be taken care of.”
• [47:09] Monica: “Push, pull.”
• [49:20] Ramit: “That’s a high income. And don’t pull that on me. Not in San Francisco.”
• [59:55] Monica: “Never thought of it that way.”
• [60:16] Ramit: “What a tragedy to have accomplished as much as the two of you have—and to never feel like it’s enough.”
• [71:48] Monica: “I now see all of our savings as freedom.”

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Conclusion & Takeaways

• Systems + Self-Awareness: Both couples demonstrate how essential it is to build real financial systems—investment accounts, savings plans—matched with honest, ongoing reflection about money beliefs.
• Rewrite the Money Story: Simply raising income or saving more does not eliminate inherited stress or feelings of scarcity. Couples must “rewrite their story,” balancing generational duty with their own well-being.
• Progress Is Possible: Both Finn & Luna and Monica & Antonio made substantial progress when they shifted from avoidance and “drift” to intentional, aligned planning—and when they gave themselves permission to prioritize their futures, not just live to satisfy external expectations.
• Ramit’s Unfiltered Realness: The show is at its best when Ramit provides direct, sometimes humorous feedback—but always couples it with deep empathy for guests’ histories and identities.

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Perfect for Listeners Who:

• Want to understand the underlying money psychology that drives couples’ financial choices
• Need inspiration or practical tools to start building shared systems, no matter how quirky or late to the game
• Are reckoning with multi-generational financial obligations or pressure to “make it all worth it”
• Appreciate a podcast that melds actionable financial advice with deep, honest relationship coaching

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Transcript

[Ramit Sethi]

Let me share some of the coolest ways that my community has recently used money to live a rich life. One member did a month long honeymoon in Europe after deciding she didn't want a big wedding. Another member bought a VW SUV that was their dream car that they've wanted for years. And another member made a rule that anytime she buys a ticket for an event, she always buys a second so that she can bring a friend. These are just a few examples of how my Money Coaching members have built systems to use their money. Notice that there's no more anxiety that they have a smooth running system. They know when their debt's going to be paid off. They can feel comfortable spending on the things they love. They can actually spend less time on their finances while living an amazing life. In my Money Coaching program, members also get access to live events every month, including topics like money with aging parents and how to create amazing vacations. That was one of my favorites where I shared how I spend my money on travel +Q&A directly from me. If you want to start building your rich life today, join us and get instant access to our back catalog of years of live calls. Check out iwt.commoneycoaching to join now. That's iwt.com moneycoaching to join the program right now.

I understand you all have $2,000 in psychedelic stocks. What the is that?

[Finn]

We took a couple thousand dollars from our wedding gifts and we bought mushroom stocks. You've never been on Shroom stocks on Reddit, I'm sure.

[Ramit Sethi]

No, I have not. I have not stumbled across that subreddit.

[Finn]

I understand that we need to have an actual plan, but we're unsophisticated with money.

[Luna]

If I have the money, for example, in my checking account, it will get spent until it gets replenished.

[Ramit Sethi]

Whoa. You all agree you have a high income?

[Antonio]

We don't feel like it.

[Monica]

No, we don't feel like it.

[Ramit Sethi]

Do we really have to do this thing again? That's a high income. And don't pull that on me. Not in San Francisco.

[Antonio]

I'm more self aware. She's more critical of herself with just the behavior and the responsibility that she has and has been instilled with her.

[Ramit Sethi]

Let me ask you, Monica, do you recognize that?

[Monica]

I hear you, but the honest answer is no.

[Ramit Sethi]

You can't go the next 17 years, 30 years feeling horrible. You just can't. No one can run a marathon that long and hate what they're doing.

You ever feel like no matter how much money you earn, it doesn't feel like it's enough. I recently did a live money for couples book tour, and today you're going to meet two couples in San Francisco who I promise will surprise you. One of them makes over $230,000 a year, but they still feel like they are barely keeping up the other. Let's just say that their investment choices actually left me speechless. Different incomes, different goals, completely different philosophies. But both of them are asking the same thing. How do we build a future together? And why does this feel so hard? We're going to start with Finn and Luna. They're at the very beginning of their financial journey. They want to educate themselves. And I have to tell you, they have some very peculiar choices that they have made about money. I'm looking at their conscious spending plan, and if you want my help with your csp, especially as we start a new year, I want you to check out my money coaching program. It is the greatest gift you can give yourself to live a Rich Life. In 2026, you can [e-mail] Money Coaching. Their assets, $20,000. Investments, 240,000. Savings, 60,000. Debt, zero. Great job. Total net worth, $320,000. And together they earn nearly $100,000 a year. Their fixed costs are at 67%, a little higher than I like to see. Investments are at zero for monthly contributions. You're going to hear Luna give a very interesting explanation in just a minute for that. Savings are at zero. I'm curious about that. Gilt free spending is at 33%. That's especially high for a couple that doesn't really put money towards savings or investments.

[Finn]

So.

[Ramit Sethi]

So obviously, I have a lot of questions. What do you say we get into it?

So I need your help to welcome our first couple. Please get on your feet and welcome Finn and Luna. Welcome, welcome, welcome.

How you doing?

[Luna]

All right.

[Ramit Sethi]

Hello.

Have a seat. Thank you. How's it going?

Great.

How you feeling?

[Luna]

Nervous.

[Ramit Sethi]

Nervous?

[Finn]

Okay. I feel sick to my stomach.

[Ramit Sethi]

This crowd. Can we give it up for Finn and Luna, please? So, Fin, you wrote in your application that since you both gave up your careers as caregivers and started your own business, quote, we have basically disagreed about how we spend and where we should live and plan to buy a home every step of the way. Is that true?

[Finn]

I would say that there is a lot of agreement with our spending. There was much more disagreement in the past.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay, let's go back to a specific disagreement that the two of you had. What would it be about?

[Finn]

House in the beginning, she says Cherry juice, which is a good example. What is an organic eater and drinker? Okay. We drink organic cherry juice every night.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay, what is happening right now? The hell is it? I just want to know. A disagreement. You guys can't tell me you disagree about cherry juice. Is this really happening?

[Finn]

Organic foods?

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay, this is the. Luna.

[Luna]

Yeah, so it used to be more. So he was kind of against spending that extra money for organic food. Over the years, I have kind of convinced him of the benefit of it. Cherry juice was a big contentious one. Just because.

[Ramit Sethi]

How much does cherry juice cost? I'm out of the market.

[Finn]

It could be, you know, seven, eight.

[Luna]

Dollars a bottle, whereas non organic cherry juice is like two bucks.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay, this is a big disagreement.

[Luna]

I mean, it's not huge. Not anymore.

[Finn]

I'm a very frugal person, so I'm looking for the cheaper way to do things.

[Ramit Sethi]

Maybe I can ask another question. Was there a van that either of you was gonna purchase? Oh, let's hear about that, Luna.

[Luna]

So basically, I had a windfall. My grandmother started an investment account for me, and eventually I got it, and it was enough to buy a van and convert it or buy a converted van.

[Ramit Sethi]

Can we talk real numbers? How much did you get?

[Luna]

I got about $200,000 and part of it was in cash and part of it was in stocks.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay, so 200k. And you wanted to buy a van.

[Luna]

With the cash portion.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay, how much was the van?

[Luna]

Oh, it probably like a legit one. The one that I wanted probably would have been like 80k, like totally converted.

[Ramit Sethi]

How the fuck were we just talking about cherry juice when there's an 80k van on the table? What is happening right now? Okay, 80K. What brand van?

[Luna]

A sprinter.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay. And so did you get it?

[Luna]

No.

[Ramit Sethi]

How come?

[Luna]

Well, he was pretty much convinced me that it would not be a financially sound investment, that it would lose its value pretty instantaneously.

[Ramit Sethi]

Hold on. A car is never an investment, except in rare cases.

[Luna]

Well, I thought, you know, we could live out of it and we could travel so we wouldn't have to pay rent.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay, that's. I guess that's true.

[Luna]

And so in the long run, I was. I, you know, did super rough math and I was like, well, if we don't pay rent for a couple of years and we live out of this van, then it basically pays for itself. And then I have a van.

[Ramit Sethi]

I tried that too, with a cashmere coat. I tried to say that with my wife. She didn't buy it. It pays for itself. So you had a 80k van out of 200k.

[Luna]

Right.

[Ramit Sethi]

That seems like a lot like out of a 200k. Let's call it inheritance to spend almost half of it on a van. What do you think about that?

[Luna]

It sounded like a really good idea to me. We were working, like, 100 hours a week. And while our living situation was paid for through that hundred hours of work a week, it was feeling like a lot, and I was ready to just go call it quits and live in a van. Okay, so it sounded good.

[Ramit Sethi]

Finn, you said it won't be a good investment, which I agree with.

[Finn]

Right.

[Ramit Sethi]

All right, and then. So what's with the 200k now?

[Luna]

The majority of it is still in stocks.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay.

[Luna]

And we did buy a car with it.

[Ramit Sethi]

You did?

[Luna]

Mm.

[Ramit Sethi]

What kind of car?

[Finn]

It's my dream car. Oh, but you don't like Fords. But it's a Ford Escape.

[Ramit Sethi]

You bought a Ford.

[Luna]

Ford Escape Hybrid.

[Ramit Sethi]

Your dream car's a Ford?

[Finn]

It currently is, dude.

[Luna]

It's actually super.

[Ramit Sethi]

Ford is never advertising with me, by the way. Every time I talk about them, I eviscerate them. Ford what?

[Finn]

It's a Ford Escape Hybrid.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay, well, how much did it cost, just out of curiosity?

[Finn]

I think it was about $38,000.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay, did you guys run any numbers before you bought it?

[Luna]

Just, we looked for a really good deal on the kind of car that we wanted. One of the major selling points was it has a panoramic side sun roof. And I actually wanted a brand new car, but then again, Fin said we should just get a used one that's just a couple years old. That's gonna be just as good.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay, that's probably good advice.

[Luna]

Yeah.

[Ramit Sethi]

All right, so you got the car. I'm gonna look at your numbers in a second. There's a conversation the two of you have been having about buying a house. Right? What's the conversation?

[Luna]

Right. So it's not actually a house that we. I would like property or land so that we can have, like, a yoga retreat center, because I also teach yoga. So, yeah, it would be more than a house. It would be a source of income as well.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay, and you agree, Finn, or what's your take?

[Finn]

You know, living in the Bay Area, I just feel like, you know, I don't think that it's realistic for us. You know, it's. If we had a million dollars tomorrow, I would rather buy, let's say, a house in Florida for half of that and keep the other half invested.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay.

[Finn]

She is a kind of in the dreamer category, you know? And so that's part of the reason why we're. Well, why I got attracted to your material is because, you know, I understand that we need to. To have an actual plan, but, you know, it's something that we've. We're unsophisticated with money.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay, I appreciate that. Would you agree that you are a dreamer?

Yeah. Wow.

Okay, hold on. This is a rare moment. Everybody give it up.

[Finn]

Hold on.

[Ramit Sethi]

I am loving this. First of all, dreamers don't come in front of me. Like, seeing a dreamer is very rare. They don't come in the same room as I. And then they never, ever admit that they are a dreamer. I love that you're admitting it. So for everybody who's not familiar with a dreamer, a dreamer believes that success is one gig, one deal around the corner. They often fall into MLM schemes, scams, and is that true, dude?

[Finn]

And I talked her out of it. Cause I. Cause I saw it, you know, I saw it from a mile away. You know, I really want to support my wife in everything. It was maybe the only time I've ever put my foot down about anything.

[Ramit Sethi]

Yeah, okay.

[Luna]

Besides the van, so great.

[Ramit Sethi]

But I love that you're honest about it. So here's the thing, though. It's difficult to be a. Well, for dreamers themselves, it's often great, like, we can do this, we can do that. They kind of float from one thing to another. It's very difficult for the partner of a dreamer because the partner of a dreamer often just wants their partner to come up with a plan and be realistic. And sometimes dreamers are subsidized by others. What do I mean by subsidized? Maybe they have an inheritance. That's an example. Or they have a partner who earns money. You earn money too. Totally acknowledge that. But often if their partner left or was hit by a bus, the dreamer would very quickly have to adapt to reality in order to not live in the clouds, but to live in reality. So that is what a dreamer is. I love that we are getting to have this opportunity to talk, especially because, yeah, you can set yourself up for a future that is really, really positive and you can still do the things you love. So I love this. What is the dynamic around spending money? Do the two of you spend money similarly?

[Finn]

I would say that I'm more conservative with my money.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay, Luna.

[Luna]

I am pretty free with my money. I like to buy gifts for him and people in my life. I'm pretty frugal when it comes to myself. Besides my supplements and my Food intake. But as far as. I'm not really extravagant as far as clothes or handbags or shoes or anything like that. But it's more so, you know, I bought him $250 pants.

[Ramit Sethi]

Those ones.

[Luna]

These are cool.

[Ramit Sethi]

Did you buy those shoes?

[Finn]

Those are also $250.

[Ramit Sethi]

Do you live, like, close to how much you make? You spend?

[Luna]

Pretty much, yeah.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay, and is that regardless of how much you make?

[Luna]

I suppose so, yeah. I guess that's kind of how it's always been. You know, it's just. I mean, now I feel blessed to have, like, something to fall back on and, you know, you know, if something happened. But if I have the money, for example, in my checking account, then it will by the. It will get spent until it gets replenished.

[Ramit Sethi]

Whoa.

Okay, let's take a look at your numbers. All right, so assets, 20k investments, 240,000. That's cool. We're going to come back to that. Saving 60k, no debt.

I love that.

Gross annual income is just under 100k. Fixed cost of 67%. Investments at 0%. Now, that is quite interesting because you see 0% invested, but yet you have $240,000 invested. So that's roughly the 200k minus the Ford that you wasted. Excuse me, purchased. And then what else is in that Investments?

[Finn]

Oh, I bought bitcoin.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay.

[Finn]

Yeah.

[Ramit Sethi]

So half of that is what?

Yeah, how much?

[Finn]

160,000.

[Ramit Sethi]

160,000 of 240 is Bitcoin?

[Finn]

Yeah. And, hey, I mean, that's why I want to talk to you, man, because.

[Ramit Sethi]

I've only ever heard you even say.

[Finn]

Crypto out of your head one time.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, I get it.

What else.

What else do you guys have in this investment account?

[Finn]

So that's, you know, about 100 or about 90 of her original stocks. You know, we spent the other on the car and then some of that sitting in cash somewhere.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay. You cash out any of the investments?

[Luna]

Yes.

[Ramit Sethi]

How much?

[Luna]

About a total of 100 out of 200.

[Finn]

Right.

[Ramit Sethi]

Why?

[Luna]

I actually just am not really sure that stocks are super stable. And so I thought, you know, two in the hand is worth one in the bush. So I took it out just in case. Like if it were to crash or something, then at least I would have half of it.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay, okay, okay. I don't agree with that, but I understand it. So we'll talk about that. But I appreciate the honesty. What else do you guys have in your investments?

[Finn]

Oh, yeah, I mean, I got some gold.

[Ramit Sethi]

You have gold?

[Finn]

Yeah. A little bit, yeah. That's how much I have.

[Ramit Sethi]

How much is that?

[Finn]

It's about 16, 2000, something like that. All right.

[Ramit Sethi]

Am I the only one who's, like, underwhelmed by what gold looks like? No, dude, that's 1600 bucks of gold.

[Finn]

I'm surprised as well.

[Ramit Sethi]

It's like, all right. And then I understand you all have $2,000 in psychedelic stocks. What the is that?

[Finn]

Yeah, it's more like four.

[Ramit Sethi]

What is it?

[Finn]

We took a couple thousand dollars from our wedding gifts and we bought mushroom stocks. You've never been on shroom stocks on Reddit, I'm sure.

[Ramit Sethi]

No, I have not. I've not stumbled across that subreddit.

Hold on.

I have a friend who does a lot of drugs, and I told her, I don't know anything about drugs at all. I missed it. And I was like, you know, I'm so glad I didn't really get into drugs. And she was like, why? And I was like, cause, like, I made money, and that's, like, a really fast way for someone who has a lot of money to lose it, like drugs. And she looked at me like I was so stupid. She goes, how much do you think coke is now? The last time I saw coke anywhere was in Robocop in 1987. Like, I literally don't. Do you inject it? I don't even know how to take it. And I was like. Like, I don't know, like, $4,000 for a bank.

She was like.

She was like. She looked at me like I am the dumbest person. She goes, it's like $50. And I was like, wow, capital markets are so efficient. Like, this is amazing.

[Finn]

We would never invest in cocaine.

[Ramit Sethi]

Only in sf. Okay, can I just be a little bit directive with what I might suggest? Okay, let's put those numbers back up on. On screen. So, first of all, I want to say I love that we are having this conversation early.

Early.

My suggestion is that you'll have a chance to have a very successful, rich life together. In order to do that, you will need to understand the basic language of money. And that means that both of you will have to learn it so that when you say things like, oh, we should put it in a savings account or an investment account, you both know what that is. I think that's gonna be important. I also think little language like compound interest. What is that? Or, Luna, when you said, I want to pull it out because it feels safer, I'm worried. I would like you to read chapter six and to understand what's the implication. Right?

[Luna]

I actually, interestingly enough, I have a business degree from UC Santa Cruz. And, yeah, they really didn't actually teach us practical anything. It's crazy.

[Ramit Sethi]

Yeah.

Yeah, it is. And you're a yoga teacher, right? So imagine that someone who's just getting into health and wellness goes, oh, I have a shoulder ache. I'm gonna go ask Luna for help. And you're like, well, there's physical therapists. To the outside, it just all looks the same. To the outside, business all looks the same. But when you get into it, you realize, oh, my gosh, personal finance is so different than business. So that's what I want to challenge you to do. I want the two of you to learn the language of money. I want the two of you to start talking about money regularly together. I know that, Fin, you wrote in your application, we've basically disagreed about how we spend, where we should live and plan to buy a house. Every step of the way. I just gave in and stopped fighting about it for now. It's kind of funny, but over 10, 20, 30 years, it's less funny. It's a wedge.

[Finn]

I feel like when I talk about having a plan with money or I talk about optimizing money, for example, it's met with, I'm stressing about money. You know, it's misunderstood, as, you know, I'm being unreasonable when I really just want to have a plan. Tell her that after doing our conscious spending plan, as you know, I realized how out of touch I was with our real numbers. And, you know, I want to live our dreams together. And so I want us to understand that there's a difference between trying to live our dreams and actually designing a plan that we implement to bring us to those dreams. And I know that we can do it together.

[Ramit Sethi]

Could not have said it better myself. Okay, read the book, have the conversations. Keep me updated.

All right.

Thank you so much for coming out here.

[Finn]

Thank you, buddy.

[Ramit Sethi]

Awesome.

Awesome to meet you. Thank you so much. Give it up for Finn and Luna.

I really love this conversation, so please make sure you stick around until the end to see their follow ups. I don't often get the chance to speak to people at the initial parts of their financial journey. A lot of times, by the time they get to me, they've read a little bit, they've learned a little bit, they have a bit of an understanding about the basics. But honestly, I love the chance to talk to people at the beginning. I also like that this couple was different than some of the couples I speak to. Sometimes. Some of the couples I talked to are tracking 34,000 rows of data. Finn and Luna were different. They were in the clouds, which was quite fascinating. I'm also struck by the kind of lifestyle they have built. It's not just about money. It's about identity. They've spent years being alternative, being creative, living outside the box. And I actually want them to keep that, stay creative, preserve that. That is who they are. Mushroom stocks, gold coins and all. But what I want them to do is to add a new layer on top of that, a new part of their identity. One that says we can still dream and we can plan. And truthfully, I wish that I had embraced that mindset in my own relationship earlier. Back then, I thought being good with money meant we agree on the percentage of our investment contributions. Okay, we probably should. But what I really needed to do was to close my mouth and listen to how my wife felt about money and what her invisible scripts were and what money means to her. In fact, I probably needed to figure out how to express my own feelings and not just what I thought. Had I done that, it would have saved us years of difficult conversations. And speaking of my relationship up next, before we meet our next couple, you're going to meet my wife, Cassandra. I think you're going to be surprised because I broke one of our cardinal rules with money and she did not let it slide. She actually called me out on it. You know, it's always driven me crazy how renters are viewed in America. For example, I proudly rent and I invest the difference. So why do homeowners get all the perks? Tax breaks, equity credit score boosts, all for what? Buying a house. While renters seen as second class citizens. Finally, someone built a way for renters to fight back. BILT is a loyalty program for renters. You pay your rent through BILT and you can earn points for it. Think about it. You're earning points for your biggest expense every single month. And you can redeem those built points towards flights, hotels, Lyft rides, or even future rent payments. BILT has evolved into a complete rewards ecosystem which where you get rewarded for the first time as a renter. And it's easy. Almost any payment method is compatible. So you can start earning right now. I wish I had had this when I first started living in New York. Plus, BILT recently announced that homeowners will be able to get rewarded the same way on their mortgage in 2026. So stay tuned. Join the loyalty program for renters@join built.com SL Ramit that's J-O-I-N B I-L-T.com Ramit and make sure you use our URL so they know that we sent you. You hear a lot of advice about starting a business that tells you to just start, just start, just get started. Well, I remember starting my business and every step was confusing. Do I need the right website? How does this tech platform work? Does this plugin function? With that plugin, how do I take payments? What's a merchant account? Well, the great part is there are now tools that make it way easier than when I was starting out. And this episode sponsor, Shopify is a great example. Shopify is built for people who do not want to spend weeks tinkering around to figure out the right shipping zones and sales tax settings. Shopify's technology lets you start off simple and as you grow, it can become as complex as you need it to be. In fact, it can even connect you in store online whether you've got one location or a thousand. And it makes shopping easier for your customers because you can ship directly to customer buy online pick up in store. It gives your staff tools to handle every part of the process that they need. And because acquiring customers is expensive, Shopify helps you keep the ones that you've got. It's got first party data built in personalization and you can become more effective with your marketing. One report from Ernst and Young showed that businesses using Shopify POS saw an average of 8.9% boost in sales. Get all the big stuff for your small business, right with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com ramit go to shopify.com ramit shopify.com ramit.

Let's give it up. Okay, welcome. How does it feel to be on stage?

[Luna]

It feels good.

[Cassandra]

Hey everyone.

[Ramit Sethi]

How's it going? Okay, I have a few questions for you about our relationship. And so I think let's just start at the beginning. What is it like being married to an optimizer?

[Cassandra]

Yes, being married to an optimizer. I would say that it took some time for us to get used to each other with our money dials and how we approached money. But now I can say it's a real strength that Rumi is an optimizer and I do appreciate that he loves to run a compound interest calculator for fun and he does love a good spirit spreadsheet as well. And so that has been a really fun part of our journey to learn about. But there was one thing I Was very surprised about and I thought optimizers are really good at Excel and Ramit does not know basic formulas. So I'm still waiting.

[Ramit Sethi]

She looked at my spreadsheets and she's like, I was so excited. I'm like, babe, look at this calculate. And she's like, who the designed this thing? So ugly. She actually runs our family calculations. And you manage it that part of it in an amazing way. So that when we talk about the numbers, you have them up.

[Cassandra]

Yeah. I love a good spreadsheet. So I am like, boop, boop, boop. Okay, here we go. And it's all good. But it has definitely been a journey to get here. And even just in fact, recently we had a little hiccup. Do you want to share about that?

[Ramit Sethi]

Yeah.

So we, we have our monthly money meetings. But you pointed out recently, very recently, you're like, hey, can I talk to you about something? I am responsible for the monthly money meetings. And you pointed out that I have been letting them slide. I haven't been scheduling them and sometimes they just don't happen. And you made a very accurate. But it was tough for me to hear point, which was you would never miss a work meeting, so why would you miss a this meeting which is even more important than that? And that's real. That's real. And yeah, I appreciated the way that you brought it up because you were very compassionate, but you were real. And I think I kind of got the gravity of it because how can I be writing a book and then I'm missing our own monthly money meeting. And I think that was the beginning. We kind of deconstructed it and I was like, let's, let's try to figure out why. And one of the big lessons was we scheduled our meeting at like 6 or 8pm I don't really schedule many work meetings at 8pm because they would get skipped because we're tired. So we moved it to a better time. We clarified what we're talking about. We streamlined all this stuff and I think that was a good wake up call and I really appreciated how you delivered that.

[Monica]

Yeah.

[Cassandra]

Yeah.

[Ramit Sethi]

So thanks. Thank you. I think it's a good lesson that you're always going to be working to tweak and improve things and life is going to get in the way sometimes.

[Cassandra]

Yeah. So you really have to fight to maintain focus on what's important.

[Luna]

Yeah.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay. How did it feel when we started combining finances?

[Cassandra]

Yeah, for me it was very nerve wracking because we grew up very differently with money and we saw things Differently. And so speaking of growing up with money, my mom and dad are in the audience.

[Ramit Sethi]

Oh, are they?

[Cassandra]

Are you there? Where are you?

[Ramit Sethi]

Can we see them? Mom and dad, can you stand up?

[Cassandra]

Oh, yeah, stand up so everyone can say hi.

[Ramit Sethi]

There they are. Give them a round of applause.

[Cassandra]

Yeah, there's my mom and dad.

[Ramit Sethi]

They're great.

[Cassandra]

But, yeah, we grew up very differently with money. And so through a lot of conversations, easy and hard ones, we have improved our communication around that, and now we have a good system in place.

[Ramit Sethi]

Yeah. What do you wish you knew back then that you know now?

[Cassandra]

Yeah. The biggest thing I would say is how much individual work we had to do on our money psychology. And I really did. I dove into books. I hired a money mindset coach. I did so many things, and because of that individual work, it really, really helped us lay a very strong foundation going forward.

[Ramit Sethi]

That is very true. You did a ton of work on your relationship with money, and there were things like you hired a coach. I didn't even know about that until a year or two later, and it showed up. It showed up in our conversations. And I know you also told me, like, hey, I need you to work better on connecting with your feelings.

[Cassandra]

The F word.

[Finn]

Feelings.

[Cassandra]

My favorite thing.

[Ramit Sethi]

I've come to appreciate it. We have our wheel. We have our wheel. Oh, so this is on our fridge.

[Cassandra]

Tell them what this is.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay. This is the wheel of emotions. We got it from a therapist, and it's really helpful. I mean, you could take a picture of it. This is something I find, especially men. Like, there were words on here. I was like, huh? What does this mean? Or a word that I would never use in a conversation. But I think this is the kind of thing you encouraged me to learn, and we are doing it together, and it's given us a new language together.

[Cassandra]

Yeah, absolutely. And now, because of all the work we put in individually and together, we have fun when we talk about money. And, yeah, there's hard times and stuff, but overall, we're on the same path moving forward.

[Ramit Sethi]

All right, thank you so much.

[Antonio]

I love you.

[Ramit Sethi]

Let's give it up.

I hope that you seen Cassandra talk about money shows you that this entire body of work is not just theoretical. I've lived it. We've lived it. We're living it right now. As I record this, I just finished a money meeting with my wife where we looked through our numbers, and we discussed what's working. We made plans for our next meeting. I'm sharing this because I'm not lecturing you from the Clouds. I'm actually doing this with you. That is why I have so much compassion for the guests on this show. Because if it's hard for Cassandra and me, I know how hard this is for you. So if money feels hard for you, if sometimes you feel stuck or like you're not aligned with your partner or even with yourself, my wish is that you give yourself a little grace. Yeah, sometimes it's hard. And, yes, you also can improve your relationship with money. So money feels good. Up next, I'm speaking to Monica and Antonio. They have a high income. They also have an invisible pressure to take care of their parents, which I think will resonate with a lot of you. If you grew up in an immigrant household, you already know what that kind of invisible pressure feels like. I'm now looking at their conscious spending plan, and if you want help with your own conscious spending plan, you can join my money coaching program at iwt.com/moneycoaching. Assets 42,000 Investments 200,000 Savings 141,000 Debt 25,000, for a total net worth of $359,480. They have a combined income of 235,000, which is very impressive, but they don't feel like it's enough. Not even close, actually. Let's get into it. I'd like for you to get on.

Your feet and welcome Monica and Antonio. Yes, welcome. Are you doing? Thank you for being here. Thank you.

Have a seat.

How you doing?

[Finn]

Good.

[Monica]

Doing good.

[Ramit Sethi]

How you feeling?

[Monica]

Excited, but also nervous.

[Ramit Sethi]

Nervous?

[Finn]

Yeah.

[Ramit Sethi]

We have the best community anywhere. And I'm so thankful that you all came out here and you are asking for help. In your application, you wrote, how do we structure our finances to be able to start saving for our future, but also to help our parents in the next five years? Can you tell me a little bit about the circumstances around helping your parents?

[Monica]

Yes. So my parents immigrated to the US maybe 38 years ago from Mexico. They left their family, their friends, their country of origin, and decided to move for me and my sister and come to the US because things were not going well economically. But they had a comfortable life in Mexico, and they moved here with a small amount of savings and started their own business and figured out how to start. And they ultimately ended up owning a series of small businesses. But in 2008, all of their savings was gone overnight. They weren't really ever able to recoup from that. They've made, you know, they're able to pay their bills and take care of themselves, but ultimately they mean a lot to me. They gave up their whole lives, what they thought was gonna be their life for me and my sister and sacrificed that. And it is super important to me that they know that they're going to be taken care of. This was never their plan for them to not have the savings or retirement to lean on.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay, I appreciate that. How do you feel when you think about the journey that your parents took?

[Monica]

Really emotional. You know, it took a lot of courage to own a small business and then it not do so well and reinvent themselves and create another small business to give my sister and I a middle class life here in the US and that meant everything to them. They wanted us to have the opportunities and to grow and to learn and be in a community that would support us and give us a bright future.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay. Okay, thank you. What is your goal to help your parents? You mentioned something in the next five.

[Monica]

Years, I don't know when they're gonna be able to or how long they're gonna be able to continue with their small business. They're in their 70s and I imagine at some point, health or otherwise, or their business is no longer profitable, they're going to need financial help. So I want to be prepared for that. I don't want to be reactive, but I also don't know what I need to do or where to go.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay. Do you feel pressure to take care of them?

[Monica]

I would say yes, but I also feel like it's an honor to take care of my parents. They came here for me and my sister, so yeah, there's definitely some pressure there.

[Ramit Sethi]

I think anyone who, who's close to their parents, and certainly someone who's seen their parents come from a different country and understand even a sliver of how difficult that would have to be, can understand the advantages that we got growing up here. Okay. I think I understand. Can I ask you. Let me ask you first, Monica, and then I want to come to you, Antonio, what did you learn about money.

[Monica]

Growing up in your household that we couldn't afford? A lot of things.

[Ramit Sethi]

How did you learn that?

[Monica]

Because it's what I was told.

[Ramit Sethi]

Any phrases you remember specifically?

[Finn]

Yeah.

[Monica]

Can't afford it. There was disagreements frequently. Regarding money. In my household? Yeah.

[Ramit Sethi]

Among your parents?

[Monica]

Yes, among my parents.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay. And what did you feel about money as a kid?

[Monica]

Stress.

[Ramit Sethi]

Ah. Still feel that?

[Monica]

Still feel that.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay. Okay. Antonio, what do you remember about money as a kid?

[Antonio]

With my parents, there was a sense.

[Ramit Sethi]

Of.

[Antonio]

People with money attain that money in a negative way or they had to. They stepped on people to get to where they were. Or it was a very kind of evil type of mentality around it.

[Ramit Sethi]

What does that mean? Evil?

[Antonio]

That they did things that necessarily weren't right or righteous or the right way, or they were took advantage of people or stepped on people to kind of get in front of them or take advantage in some other way.

[Ramit Sethi]

So the story that you were taught was if somebody has a lot of money, they did something wrong in order to get it, they had to take advantage. That's a less common one than we can't afford it. But it sticks with you, doesn't it? You still feel that way.

[Antonio]

Fortunately, I don't. I actually, I grew up in Arizona and then I actually went to San Diego for college. I played soccer and went to a very. A private school where there was a lot of affluent students and people and families. And it opened my eyes up to a whole new world in terms of getting to know people and their identities. And that money isn't evil and that money can do great things, and it just depends on the person and their identity and what they can do. So it really. Getting out of Arizona was kind of like my ticket to explore the world. And it was huge for me.

[Ramit Sethi]

That connects with me a lot. I grew up going to public school, and I don't know where I got this idea, but I had this idea that if you go to private school, you're an asshole and sort of spoiled. And then I got to college and there were a lot of my classmates who had gone to private school, public school, whatever. That was not true. I changed my opinion in 48 hours of becoming a freshman. And at 17 or 18 years old, when you realize, oh my God, something I believed for the last 10 years is actually totally untrue, it's kind of earth shaking. So I appreciate that's the power of being surrounded by different people. Okay, how are your parents with money? Antonio?

[Antonio]

I came from a family of six, five boys, one girl. So it was more of a survive instead of nurture. So it was, you know, dad working a few jobs, mom staying at home, just constantly working, but then providing for us like we didn't know any different. Like, this was the good life. So it was seeing all those sacrifices that they made, but then knowing, like, at certain times you couldn't afford things, or I played on club teams where I would have other people that would pay for tournaments and things like that that would kind of make up the difference, because my family, we couldn't afford it. But the skill sets and the being an athlete Helped.

[Ramit Sethi]

How about now? How are they with money now?

[Antonio]

Well, it's a divided family now. So there was a divorce and there's some division in the family. So that causes, you know, things happen and you adjust. So my dad, we kind of similar to her parents, are looking to help him and take care of him because of what he's done and throughout my life and our lives to help support him. He's a Vietnam vet and, you know, been through a lot of trauma and PTSD and all those other things that come along with the sacrifices that he made, not only for our country but for us, that we have an obligation and a duty. And I think Monica kind of downplays her stress and weight of responsibility because of all the sacrifices that her parents made. I think she takes on a lot, a huge weight and it's been seen in her drive in her career to make it worth what her parents sacrificed. So there's a lot of a weight there. Yeah. And pressure.

[Ramit Sethi]

You agree with that, Monica?

[Monica]

Yeah.

[Ramit Sethi]

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[Monica]

So we recently combined our households with my parents. They are doing it for me and my husband, for Antonio and I and our son Santiago, because they remember how stressful it was for them and there was a lot of anxiety and worry in the household. And because they moved here and didn't have anybody, they didn't have anyone to rely on. And they want to be that for us. So I'm so grateful and thankful that they not only want to be a part of our lives, but like, intimately involved to help and support us in a way that they didn't have. But, yeah, we all live together.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay, that's cool. And you want to figure out how you can continue that. And I think get a house with an ADU so that your parents can live in it.

Is that right?

[Monica]

Yeah. That is our long term or a longer term goal, I think.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay. At some point.

At some point you want to have.

A house with an adu.

Okay. Yeah. As I was hearing Monica and Antonio describe how they experienced money when they were young, the way that I was feeling was sad. I noticed a sad tone around money coming from them, but I could also feel it inside my own body. And I think I can understand why. If you grew up with immigrant parents, I'm willing to bet you probably didn't talk about money as openly as we do on this show. But I also bet those quiet expectations were always there. They go something like this, we came here for you, and one day you'll take care of us. In a lot of families, especially immigrant families, that idea just exists. It's in the air. It may never be explicitly said, but it's well understood by everybody. But Monica and Antonio are part of two cultures now. In one culture, that expectation is sacred. Anyone who grew up with immigrant parents knows what I'm talking about. In the other culture, Money is something you talk about, plan for, even set boundaries around. This is cultural. It's socioeconomic. It cuts across different groups of people with an invisible knife that nonetheless leaves real expectations. And that's where things get really tricky, because they've never had that conversation. It's all been unspoken. Have you ever read some of these Reddit threads where an Indian kid or a Chinese kid will say, hey, I'm not sure, you know, my parents expect me to do this, but I'm just not sure about it? And, like, 99% of the people in that comment will be like them. You need to take care of yourself. And I'm like, have you all ever met an immigrant family? No. A lot of you think something is real only if it's documented in sop. Oh, my. I cannot comply with your request because you did not properly format according to our standard operating procedure. Get out of life, you corporate drone. That's not how real life works. People go 50 years never talking about something, but their expectations are. Are as real as the air around us. So you may not understand these expectations, but they are real for tens of millions of people around the world. Now, listen, as Monica describes how she feels about money, how would you describe.

Your relationship with money? In a word?

[Monica]

Can I use two words?

[Ramit Sethi]

Sure.

[Monica]

Push, pull.

[Ramit Sethi]

Oh, what does that mean?

[Monica]

I think there's. Sometimes I feel like when I'm very conscientious and intentional with my money, I feel good and happy about it, but when I avoid or don't or get overwhelmed, I get very anxious because I don't know what's going on in our financial picture.

[Ramit Sethi]

It sounds pretty stressful to me. Like, I haven't heard a lot of joy in the way that you describe money. Is that fair?

[Monica]

Yeah, I mean, I think there are moments of joy. I think the last six or eight months have just been a little bit more stressful financially for a lot of reasons, and so maybe that's why it's coming off that way. But, yeah, okay.

[Ramit Sethi]

I mean, it's okay. Things come in waves. They come in chapters. I don't mind that. I think, you know, from what you described, your parents had a tough time when they came here with money. Understandably so. Would you say you have a tough time, financially speaking? Like, are you thriving? Are you just getting by? Are you failing with money? Which one?

[Monica]

I would say I don't think we're failing, but I don't think we're surviving. For sure, we're not surviving. So I feel like somewhere in between getting by, getting By.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay. Shall we take a look at the numbers?

[Finn]

Sure.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay, let's put them up. Assets of 42,000. Investments of 200,000. Savings of 141. Debts, 25. I think that's a van you bought.

[Monica]

Yes.

[Ramit Sethi]

Is that right? Okay, why do you say it like.

[Antonio]

Very aggressive, very manly van.

[Ramit Sethi]

I love a good van. I drove a van for so many years. Any minivan drivers in the room? I feel like we have a disproportionate number of Honda minivan drivers in this room. Gross monthly income is 19k. That's really good. Fixed costs at 68%. What do you all think about that number? You're looking at it like it's the first time looking at those numbers. The hell you sent these numbers.

[Monica]

It's high.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay? I mean, yes, it's high. If it's 68, we could probably bring it down. Especially with a high income like that.

I agree.

It should be. I typically like to see 50 to 60%, especially with a high income. You all agree you have a high income?

[Antonio]

We don't feel like it.

[Monica]

No, we don't feel like it.

[Ramit Sethi]

Do we really have to do this thing again?

Hold on.

[Antonio]

Okay.

[Ramit Sethi]

Gross annual income, $234,000. Yeah, that's a high income. And don't pull that on me. Not in San Francisco.

Come on.

Okay, so you don't feel it? Is there a number that you would feel it?

[Monica]

Yeah.

[Ramit Sethi]

What's the number?

[Monica]

I don't know. 40k a month.

[Ramit Sethi]

40K a month?

[Finn]

Just.

[Ramit Sethi]

Where'd that come from?

[Monica]

Just twice as much as what we found.

[Ramit Sethi]

God, one day I'm going to encounter someone who just goes, yes, I have enough.

Please.

How many more decades will it take me to find that person? All right, so fixed cost at 68, investments at 0. That's interesting. Savings at 1%. Guilt free spending at 31%.

What?

What are you all spending on?

A lot.

The answer is not behind you.

Trust me.

What are you spending on? I don't mind spending on nice things. I like them. But I'm just curious. 31%. What are you spending on?

[Antonio]

We have certain expenses, like, like there's health care, I mean, not healthcare, but like her, like working out.

[Ramit Sethi]

We take.

[Antonio]

We have certain investments towards, you know, trainers, health, organic food, self care, fine stuff that.

[Ramit Sethi]

What else got real quiet in here.

All of a sudden?

[Antonio]

We do have a kid. The 18 month old.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay, I know childcare is a big expense. Under your fixed cost, 1,900 bucks a month.

Correct. That's a lot.

[Monica]

And that's not that expensive for San Diego.

[Ramit Sethi]

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay.

Antonio, you started contributing to retirement later in life.

Yes.

You're 12 years older than Monica. Okay, so. And Monica, you recently scaled back hours at work. Have you changed your spending to reflect the hours that you've cut?

[Monica]

Honestly, no. And I didn't really realize that until maybe a month ago when we started combing through all of our finances. And I realized, oh, I never made that adjustment.

[Ramit Sethi]

Yeah, that's common. That's common. That's very common. It's kind of like the NFL player who stops being in the NFL, but they don't change what they're eating or how they're spending. It's very common. And so at least you recognized it now. So you want to buy a house from looking at your numbers. What do you think? What's the answer?

[Antonio]

I don't think we have enough saved. I think there's also some fears where the last five, six years we had planned the whole kind of a compound with the adu, and that was like a dream. But then you look at the real estate market, you look at interest rates and. And we have histories of being burned in real estate. Like, her parents has that history.

[Ramit Sethi]

Both families.

[Antonio]

Yeah, my parents. My parents. I even went through it in 2008 in terms of the crash and had a couple homes and went through that. So there's a bit of a fear in terms of not making. And then you have a child and we're raising a family, it's like you don't want to make that same mistake. And I think we've done so many things to improve our relationship as people in terms of, like going to therapy and these things. In terms of changing behaviors. Right. We love our parents, but there's certain behaviors that we want to change to instill in our life as we go forward. And, you know, we want to do that with the finances as well. And we're. In listening to you, it kind of brought up the point of like, well, maybe a house isn't the investment that we want to go. Maybe there's other options and maybe there's other ways that are more secure and help us attain that rich life in the ways that we want to experience it.

[Ramit Sethi]

So I think that's probably true, especially because you live in a very high cost of living city and I think because you're hyper aware of real estate, what's been the family history? But I guess I want to kind of zoom out for a second. I want to say the two of you, you know, parents have given you A lot. In terms of knowledge. They've given you generational wealth, not maybe through money, but generational wealth through opportunities and through teaching you and introducing you to new ideas and people. So the first thing I just want to recognize is that you are doing very well relative to most people in America. Okay. Do you recognize that?

[Antonio]

I'm more self aware. She's more critical of herself with just the behavior and the responsibility that she has and has been instilled with her.

[Ramit Sethi]

Let me ask you, Monica, do you recognize that? Can we put those numbers back up?

[Monica]

I hear you, but the honest answer is no.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay, fair answer. So you hear me. You can even see these numbers with a lot of zeros. There's a lot investments, 200,000 gross monthly income, almost 20,000. But you're telling me you don't feel it here, right?

Okay.

Why do you think that is?

[Monica]

Because of the way that I grew up, probably.

[Ramit Sethi]

It's so interesting to me that such high earners can have such negative feelings about money. Remember, the way we feel about money is highly uncorrelated with the amount in our bank account. But now that we are starting to understand where they came from and how they watched their families struggle with money, starting to make more sense. They're setting these enormous goals for themselves. A property with an ADU help for Antonio's father. Yet have you noticed that nowhere in this conversation have they talked about the things they would like to spend money on for themselves? I'm also concerned about their own Future. They have $200,000 earmarked for retirement, but Antonio's 48 years old. I would like to see them focus on their own future as well as their parents. Otherwise, you know what's going to happen. This cycle will continue for yet another generation. In fact, there's a very specific reason that Monica and Antonio feel behind, even though they are earning way more than most Americans. Listen as I give them my perspective. This episode is sponsored by Element, and I get a lot of DMS from my listeners who use it in all, all kinds of situations. One person told me they bring Element on their backpacking Trips, which are 15 to 20 mile days in high elevation with blazing sun. Another person said, I have it every morning. I also like to have it throughout the day when I'm craving something with flavor. I love hearing all your feedback about Element, so keep it coming. Element is a zero sugar electrolyte mix that comes in easy to use packets in great flavors like citrus, salt and watermelon. When you're sweating like you're at the gym or hiking or just in the heat, you're losing more than water. Element helps you stay sharp, avoid cramps and feel better. It's used by Navy SEALs, Olympic athletes and pro sports teams. And now what started as a seasonal drop Lemonade salt is officially a favorite. It's perfect with iced tea. For a salty Arnold Palmer, get a free 8 count sample pack of Element's most popular drink. Mix flavors with any purchase and at drink lmnt.com/ramit that's drinklmnt.com ramit find your favorite Element flavor or share with a friend and you can try it totally risk free. If you don't like it, they will give you your money back, no questions asked. When Masterclass asked me to be an instructor, I knew exactly what I wanted to teach. It was not credit card point optimizations or interest rates or or saving $5 on pickles. Anybody can talk to you about that stuff. I wanted to show you how to actually feel good about your money, including mastering your money psychology to break those cycles of shame and stress and overwhelm and automating your finances so your money works for you while you sleep. And then living a financial life that is authentically rich. It's unapologetically what you want for your rich life. Nobody else's. With Masterclass you can learn from the best to become your best. With plans Starting at just $10 a month, you get unlimited access to over 200 classes taught by the world's best business leaders, writers, chefs and now me. Plus there is no risk. Every new membership comes with a 30 day money back guarantee so you can try it out before you commit. I have gifted Masterclass memberships to friends and family for the holidays. It's a hit. People love it. Whether you want to learn cooking, negotiating, design, whatever your topic is, there is truly something for everyone. Masterclass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to masterclass.com ramit for the current offer. That's up to 50% [e-mail] ramit masterclass.com.

Ramit you grew up not having enough feeling stressed about money, right? And then both of your parents lost houses and you know, have gone through a variety of different financial journeys. Yet combine the two of you make high income household income. What I noticed there's probably many reasons and definitely things to dig into with therapists. What I notice is that you have unconsciously set such a high bar that you can actually never be successful by that standard. Like looking at the Numbers, you're quite successful. Yes. We can talk about your investments and guilt free spending. We can do that. I'll give you some quick things right now, but if your standard is, I need to buy a house with an ADU in California for my parents, like how many people can actually do that? Like, we all know how expensive that is, don't we? That's an almost impossible standard. So by setting that, you're unconsciously recreating that feeling of not having enough, the same one that feels so familiar that you grew up with, now making $240,000 a year, you're still feeling it simply because you're recreating that story. How does that strike you?

[Monica]

Never thought of it that way.

[Ramit Sethi]

Tell me more.

[Monica]

Yeah, I guess I think my whole life I've probably expected this and was trying to set myself up mentally for what it was going to take to get to that place. And it just feels like it's never enough.

[Ramit Sethi]

Right, right. What a tragedy to have accomplished as much as the two of you have and to never feel like it's enough. I think there's a very different way to look at it. First of all is just appreciating what your parents gave you, what you two have taken and run with and accomplish. Huge.

Huge.

Not many can say that. So that is the first thing. And if I'm you, I'm spending a lot more time in conversations about money, talking about, look, look how far we've come. Look where we came from. I mean, I was walking around San Francisco today and I lived here in my 20s, early 30s, and I was walking around my old neighborhood and just like really taking it in with my wife. Look how far I can.

Oh, I used to go to that.

College coffee shop and it felt good to look at that and then to contrast it with where I am, I appreciate where I came from. I'd love for you to do the same on the financial side. I'm going to make a few more specific recommendations. Okay. I think that if I'm looking at your spending, investing, et cetera, I think I would immediately take the guilt free spending and I would probably cut it in half. And one thing, and going through your guilt free spending, it was quite detailed. It was like you really laid it out, but there's 0% going to investments. So typically I say 20 to 35%. In your case, particularly since you started investing later in life, you can cut that quite a bit. 15% is a kind of good place to start. That still gives you, especially on your income, 15% is a lot. But all of that remainder of the money can go towards investments. You have a car payment. It's going to be over in a couple of years. I think 400 or so bucks a month. I would invest all of that directly. Don't get a new car. Keep that as long as you can. If you can do all of those things, you'll have over $2 million in retirement. It's a good start. It's a good start for investing aggressively later in life. By the way, I'm going for the most conservative look, which is, Antonio, your retirement, because you're a little older. Okay. If you let that money sit, it will grow considerably.

The house.

Realistically, in the next five years, you're not going to buy a house with an adu. That's okay. Sometimes the best thing we can do with a rich life is to be honest with ourselves and the people around us. You don't actually need to buy a house to achieve having your parents live with you altogether might be a little tighter than you wanted, you know, but if you can get creative about it, that would be my challenge for you. Basically, I wouldn't set a goal, if you want to live in California, of buying a house with an adu, because you will forever feel behind. So find another way. Do you think that that's possible?

[Monica]

Yeah, that's fair.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay.

[Finn]

Okay.

[Ramit Sethi]

I think above all, we need the two of you to focus on your financial future, to get aligned. There's a lot of family history. You want to honor your family, you want to take care of them. I totally respect that. I get it. But I also want you to have a plan. A plan so that you are both taken care of with your retirement, because your time, the clock is ticking, and you got to feel good about it. You can't go the next 17 years, 30 years feeling horrible. You just can't. No one can run a marathon that long and hate what they're doing. So do you think that you can find a way to prioritize yourselves, do it together, and to feel good about your journey?

[Monica]

Yeah, I do.

[Antonio]

I definitely think so.

[Ramit Sethi]

In the spirit of wanting you to change the way you feel about your journey, my team spoke to your parents, and I'd love for us to take a look. We are very proud that you guys are already trying to looking for an answer, looking for a plan, looking for a system that is going to get you where you want to go. And you guys are including us. I'm grateful. I'm proud.

I think the torch has been passed.

The Values have been transferred. That along is enough, more than enough, to make us feel really proud.

[Monica]

I love you both.

[Ramit Sethi]

And we're wishing you. We're rooting for you.

[Monica]

We're wishing you the best.

[Ramit Sethi]

What do you see when you see your parents up here?

[Monica]

The people I love, the people who gave me the life that I have now.

[Ramit Sethi]

Yeah. I think you've done an amazing job taking the torch, as your dad said, carrying it on. I want you two to put yourselves first. Prioritize. You can still take care of your family, feel good along the way, and everyone else will be able to sense that feeling that the two of you have as a team. Okay, Monica and Antonio, can we give.

It up for them?

Thank you so much.

Monica and Antonio are doing so many things right. They've got strong careers, a great income, a deep commitment to their family. But they are also carrying this invisible burden, the pressure to make their parents sacrifices worth it. And that's when you can start to create unrealistic standards, like feeling that if you cannot buy a house with an ADU in California, you failed. Let's be honest, for the vast majority of people, that is not realistic. That feeling of not enough does not come from their incomes. It comes from the expectations they have invisibly internalized but never really talked about. Now, when it comes to money, a lot of people resort to going right back to the budget. We need a budget. We need to track a budget. You don't need a budget. What you actually need is a new story, a new way of looking at money, a new set of lenses to put on and then the systems to bring that story to life. If the story in your head is I'm on my own or I have to take care of everyone else, because if I don't, I lose control and everything falls apart, then no budget in the world will ever make you feel safe. Oh, it's easy. You can certainly create a budget, change some numbers. It can feel productive. I can knock it out in five seconds for you. But changing your story, that takes work. And that is where real, meaningful change happens. And especially for couples who are willing to rewrite their story together. If you're coming into the new year and you want to rewrite your story around money, if you want to stop feeling overwhelmed and behind and you actually want to feel excited about money, even if you have debt, even if you're not sure about what to do next, I want you to check out my money coaching program. You'll get access to me, my team, and a whole community of people. Who we're going to help you stick to your rich life goals. It's not negative punitive budgeting. It's creating a rich life. And you can join at iwt.com/money coaching. A huge thank you to both couples who are brave enough to join me on stage in front of our live San Francisco audience and to my amazing beautiful wife, Cassandra, who makes me want to continue rewriting our story together every single day. We're going to get to their follow ups in just a second and I want you to watch until the end because we reached out to these couples a full year after this was recorded, so make sure you stick around. First up, Finn and Luna.

[Luna]

I've realized that I am quite a bit of a dreamer and so I'm taking steps to become more of a planner and that includes listening to I will teach you to be rich and then following along with the spring steps at the end of the chapter so I can see myself aligning my goals with my husband's goals. And we're able to agree a lot more and disagree a lot less just since starting to create our rich life. So thank you so much to Ramit and thank you so much to his team and we'll keep you updated in the future. Peace.

[Finn]

We have decided to do study time every week with the book where we spend an hour of reading the book and making a to do list.

[Ramit Sethi]

So we're just going through the book.

[Finn]

And going step by step and figuring things out and I can feel it coming together and I'm so stoked to see what the next year of learning has in store for us.

[Ramit Sethi]

And now let's hear from Monica and Antonio.

[Monica]

Since we last met, we reduced our everything else by 30 to 40%. Fully funded for both Antonio and myself Roth IRAs for last year and are in the works of fully funding Roth IRAs for this year. We were able to start saving about six to $800 a month every month. Now our son's daycare costs will reduce by about 40 to 50% in two months. So there's light at the end of the tunnel as far as daycare costs. So we'll be able to start saving around 14, 1500 dollars monthly.

[Ramit Sethi]

More.

[Antonio]

More in addition to what we're saving.

[Monica]

Still working on my money mindset. Still very much love my parents and hope to be able to help them in the future but putting ourselves first. And we are in the process of looking for a financial advisor that works best for us and we've interviewed a couple so far and we have a Few more to interview to help us decide what to do with the rest of our savings.

[Ramit Sethi]

Now let's hear from them a full year later and see what kind of progress they've made.

[Finn]

Well, it's been about a year since Luna and I were on stage with Ramit. A lot has happened since then. When we walked out that night, we had nothing in place. We had no system. We never opened up an investment account, we had no IRAs, we never had a credit card ever. And so it's a year later and we've got all that in place. So, you know, we basically opened up a Charles Schwab investment account. We took the money out of our banks and invested it into the S&P 500. We've got our conscious spending plan down to a perfect pie chart and then we send 10% of what we make for the month into our banks. So that's our guilt free spending and then we invest the rest into the S&P 500. We took our toes out of the crypto game. We started to agree that building wealth should be boring and that was too much of a wild ride. So we got out while we were on top and put that into the S&P 500. The best advice, you know, I could give anybody out there is to actually read the book and do the work and you will find yourself in a different life and it's a much safer, better life for us. And yeah, we're very grateful for that night.

[Antonio]

Hello. Ramit and team want to give you an update as far as, you know, what's happened.

[Monica]

So since we met in January, we were on the hunt for a financial advisor. We were able to fully fund last year's Roth IRAs and started contributing towards our retirement funds in a larger amount monthly.

[Antonio]

I did get laid off back in July, which has been a bit stressful. But at the same time we had the, I guess the safety of the emergency funds to take some time and take some time off, rethink where I wanted to go in terms of next direction, next steps.

[Monica]

I think for me, what's changed the most in the last year with Antonio's layoff and my father had some serious heart, heart health issues this year, my view on what our savings should go to and view on money has changed completely, I think. You know, I now see all of our savings as freedom. So I feel like it all worked out the way it was supposed to and now I don't have one single vision for our finances but realize that it's there for a reason and it's there to to help us in times of need. I don't feel as stressed about the needing to continue to save at a significant rate. It's been really helpful to have that.

[Antonio]

Money available and you know, thanks for all your help and advice and support it stuff. He gave us that different perspective to kind of put those priorities in place and have that time and space for family and our loved ones.

[Monica]

And I will be able to renegotiate my contract. I will be increasing my hours more than likely next year, so I'm in a good place to be able to do that. And I love what I do for work and hopefully, you know, Antonio will hear back from a few companies soon.

[Antonio]

Thanks guys.

[Ramit Sethi]

Take care.

If you want my help with your specific money questions, you can apply to be on this [e-mail] apply or you can become a member of my Money Coaching program [e-mail] Money coaching. In money Coaching, you get access to monthly calls where I answer your questions directly on a private call. And I get the chance to go much deeper on the concepts of money that have made a huge change in my life. Plus, you'll get access to a community of other people like you who will inspire you and push you to live your rich life. Check out money [e-mail] moneycoaching.