← Money for Life with Eric Roberge, CFP
Money for Life with Eric Roberge, CFP
How to Navigate Current Economic Conditions: Managing Your Money Well Through Uncertain Times
00:32:32
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- [00:04]
A
Want the opportunity to create Money for Life. We've got the strategies to get you there. I'm Eric.
- [00:09]
B
And I'm Kayleigh.
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A
And we help professionals and executives optimize their financial decisions so they can live well today, plan for tomorrow, and enjoy
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B
Money for Life on the Money for Life podcast. We're here to help you do the same. Hey, welcome back to the Money for Life podcast. I'm Keeley Roberts.
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A
And I'm Eric Roberge. And.
- [00:28]
B
And today we want to talk about recessions. If you're worried about them, if we're about to have one, if we're in one, what do we do after one? We want to talk about everything to do with your long term plan and your short term cash flow to figure out how you can navigate a recession. If that's on your mind, if that's worrying you, translating that emotion into productive and useful action.
- [00:54]
A
Yeah, that word really makes people fear the worst for good reason. Like there's been plenty of precedent in the past where people have been caught off guard by recessions and you have these horror stories that show up and they are a part of normal functioning economic cycle. They shouldn't be avoided, they should be planned for and worked through. I think that's what we want to talk about today. Just to make sure that we can proactively plan and not make decisions on things that we don't have to make decisions on because of what we assume we need to do in a recession.
- [01:27]
B
Yeah, I think that's a good place to start. Is looking at a recession as part of a normal market cycle, business cycles that follows a relatively predictable pattern in that A happens, B happens, C happens. The unpredictable part is we don't know when each of those things is going to show up necessarily. Like the exact month, the day. And we don't know what will spark that, the change. We just know that it does move through these cycles and markets go up, something happens, they might fall, we might get into a recessionary period where economic output is shrinking and then there's a cycle of recovery and we start going up again. So that's very, very big picture, very simplified. But I think it helps to know that a recession isn't unusual. It's not that things are breaking down and going wrong. We do know that there are these booms and busts and that's part of a cycle. We have economic growth and then we have some contraction. We have jobs being lost or consumer spending falling, profits decline and then again they recover. The cycle starts again.
- [02:32]
A
Yeah. One important thing to Know, in being in the, in the world of investment management and financial planning, a lot of times this conversation is brought up with directly connected to the stock market and oh, there's a recession fear. People are saying that we should be expecting a recession. What should we do with our investments when the stock market inevitably drops? The strange thing is the timing of stock market declines and recessions starting and then recessions being announced and then stock market recovery is really not what you'd expect. For example, back in 2006, seven into eight, when the, the Great Recession happened, the stock market started to decline in 2007. It wasn't until maybe a third of the way through 2008 that there was a recession that was announced by midway through or just after. Midway through 2008, the stock market bottomed and then the recession ended in 2010 when the stock market had come up significantly from that bottom. So to think that we should judge or time a recession based on stock market is incorrect. And I think it really throws people for a loop when they start to try to do that. Especially when the decisions that are made are changes to an otherwise perfectly fine long term investment strategy that is for retirement 20, 30 years down the road and not for this year, next year, even the year after that.
- [03:57]
B
Yeah, that's a great point. In this weekend's Wall Street Journal there was an article. The image for the article was a person riding a horse, but the person was looking backward and the hors was running about to run over a cliff. And I feel like everything you were saying like that image captures it because so many people I think react based on what the stock market is doing. But with the recession, like defining a recession and understanding it, we can only do it officially with backward looking data. So by the time you're doing something with your money in the stock market, things have already moved on. It's too late. You're reacting, you're on the back foot there. Which I think probably ties into the advice I imagine Eric, you would give us as far as if we are in a recession, if we're worried about a recession, what can we do with our investments? The answer is certainly not, well, fiddle with them and try to catch up.
- [04:47]
A
Yeah, or I would guess the economy, which is always a losing battle. The key here is to separate, not only separate the stock market from the recessionary fears or economy in general, but separate your long term financial plan with your short term cash flow management and when I say cash flow management, your income, your expenses, your day to day operations in your personal life. What should you be doing with that is a different question than what should I do with my retirement plan when it comes to recessions. So going back to the beginning of this conversation where we shouldn't be overreacting to things and if there is an expectation that a recession is coming or that we're in one, we may want to be more conservative with our spending, especially when it comes to big decisions of major spending that we might be doing, like buying a house, buying a car in cash, going on a significant trip, taking a sabatical like all these things are major disruptors to current cash and or cash flow. And we probably don't want to eliminate our bank cash and or eliminate our income at a time when there are recessionary fears in the air.
- [05:59]
B
I want to take a step back for a second and define what a recession actually is, because you kind of talked about what it's not. It's not the stock market falling that is not necessarily a recession. So the National Bureau of Economic Research is the nonprofit organization in the US that basically they're the ones who are like, yep, it's a recession, or no, it's not officially. So what they're doing is they're looking for signs of sustained economic decline, decline across lots of different parts of the economy, not just the stock market dips, market downturns, corrections. Again, those are all normal things that we would expect to see in the market too. But they're not necessarily enough on their own to say it's a recession. Everybody panic. Right. They want to look at things like people's income, your purchasing power, which is impacted by inflation, unemployment, how much businesses are producing, and then gross domestic product product, which Eric, I think, is there an official definition of the gdp, what it needs to do to kind of be a recession, or at least indicate like, hey, this is like a warning sign that's flashing. Yeah.
- [07:01]
A
I think one of the items that is looked at when pronouncing a recession is two consecutive quarters of GDP decline.
- [07:12]
B
So that's half a year right there. Right. So you need time to officially decide are we in a recession or not? Which I think plays into the advice that you'd be giving either end of the spectrum. But the long term financial plan as well as your short term cash flow, which are two different things, but either way the fact that it's going to take at least six months to officially determine, hey, we're in a recession most of the time. Covid was an exception because that was a two month recession. Things just happened so fast and fell so Dramatically. That was kind of a wild situation. But normally it's going to take longer to have a recession set in and then have someone, some official body be like, all right, here we are, we're in it.
- [07:55]
A
Yeah. You know, if you're looking out there at the economy and you're afraid of losing your job, that may or may not be a sign of anything. That could be just your industry is having a tough time of it. Right. It doesn't mean that the entire economy is going down. And if people talk about tariffs and other items, it's 2025. Is. Is. That's a big popular term. Is tariffs.
- [08:18]
B
Said year of the tariff.
- [08:20]
A
Yeah. So we can name it year of the tariff. And because there is so much speculation and just lack of clarity around tariffs and there will be the entire year, businesses are hesitating to invest. Right. So if reduced business investment is part of what happens in a recession, well, that's happening because people are just questioning they don't want to open a factory in one country versus another, then realize that the tariffs terms have changed. I mean, that's start a factory in a country that's like a 40 year commitment. That's not like chump change and not just a quick turnaround there. So people aren't going to be. People, meaning businesses aren't going to be throwing significant dollars around because they're just very unclear as to what's happening. So if there's not significant investment back in businesses, there is decreased production because of that non investment. And because of that, there might be revenue declines. And if revenues decline, then there's layoffs. So there's all these things are intertwined and we just have to pay attention to that. But again, we can make a plan for you to protect yourself against recession.
- [09:24]
B
And I think that's kind of what you're saying leads into that idea. There's an argument to be made, like if you feel like you're in a recession, it really doesn't matter what the official statement is, it's okay, it's a recession because consumer sentiment does matter. And that's one of those indicators that we are in a recession. That. So there's a Bloomberg podcast I listened to recently where it was like, I think the title of the podcast was the Vibes are Off. Which really, that is if the vibes are off to you economically, financially, then that's enough reason to take a step back and be like, all right, what can I control? So let's start with the bigger picture. Let's look at the long term plan. And tied into that, I think is your investment strategy. Because ideally you should be investing for the long term. So what, if anything, should you do or maybe if it's easier to say, what should you not be doing with your investment portfolio and your long term plan if you're worried that the recession is here, we're in it, we're dealing with it, and, or we might be just now starting to climb out from the fallout. If you have recession worries of any kind, what should you be doing with that? Those long term pieces of your finances.
- [10:34]
A
Yeah. And so this is going to be with an assumption that you've done planning before this recessionary period. Right. If you're just starting to do your planning now, it's going to be a little bit of a different angle of advice than if you've already planned during times of peace and calm and clarity and more objective versus emotional considerations, then this is what is the case. Right. So you've set up your long term plan, you've understood what your asset allocation should be for your long term retirement funds, your accounts that are 401 s, your IRAs, even taxable investment accounts. Your have a strategy implemented already, you've chosen your investments and it's, it's a long term investment strategy that should be able to sustain itself through the ups and the downs of the market.
- [11:17]
B
Because we expect it. Right. Because we know it's a normal part of the cycle. And the point is to invest for a full market cycle, not to jump in and out of it.
- [11:25]
A
Correct. Because active management, although there are pieces of, of that working in some factions of your plan, it's more about long term strategic asset allocation, more of a passive type of approach for your core strategy because that's been proven to beat out active management over long periods of time for a number of reasons. Right. So if you're doing that and you've already planned for these short term gyrations in the market, then why would you make a change to the plan that already planned for these short term gyrations in the market? You shouldn't, do not touch them. You have to be able to hold on, not touch things and let this go. So ride it out. Because that is going to ultimately be a better long term play for you than tinkering right now, especially from an emotional perspective because you feel like something's going to happen or you feel like you need to go to cash. It's just a bad setup for a long term plan.
- [12:17]
B
I think we can do a whole episode on why that's A bad idea. Maybe we should do that next of like jumping into cash. There's a lot of data, a lot of research that shows why that's not a good idea. But it's hard. This is, to me, the core challenge of being a quote unquote long term investor is that you actually have to sit down and sit on your hands and stick it out for the long term. That is the core part of that is you need to give your investments time in the market. And time in the market is going to include these ugly periods where you just would rather not look at what's going on because it is scary, it's emotional, it's, like I said, it's not fun.
- [12:56]
A
It's risk realized, right? The risk out there realized. Like you see the drop in the market, you still own the same amount of shares. And that's to be remembered too, because if you sell those shares and you don't own the shares anymore and you've locked in your losses for sure, which is something that is not recommended, holding onto those shares, so when they grow back in price, your portfolio lifts as well. And then beyond that, because long term, the market is expected to rise, stock prices are expected to rise. That's how they're priced and that's how economic growth works. So you should just let that happen instead of trying to actively manage it in a way that slows down that growth at best and at worst completely halts it.
- [13:37]
B
That's a good point too, right? If you're in the market and something happens, whatever it is, that set it off, you just realize the risk of being an investor like, there's nothing to do now, there's no risk to be avoided. You already realized it. So, you know, if you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. Digging in this case would be moving to cash and locking in the losses, which are unrealized right now. And you've got time on your side to see a recovery. And again, I think it goes back to your initial point of Step one is to follow your plan. Step two is if you don't have a plan, get one so that you can have that roadmap during times when you're like, oh my gosh, what do I do?
- [14:15]
A
The other piece too is so your investments are invested and then you're contributing to these investments along the way. That's another question people have is, well, should I stop investing right now? I'll leave the money in the market, but should I stop putting new money in the market? And when it comes to your 401k or something that is just automatically going in every month. And you're taking advantage of dollar cost averaging, investing consistently over time in a rising market environment. That's a good thing. You shouldn't stop doing that because when the market goes down, you're actually buying more shares with the same dollars contributed. When the market goes up, you're buying less shares. So you should take advantage of the gyrations of the market by continuing to invest because you have time on your side. Again, this is an assumption of you have 10, 20, 30 years left to go before you're accessing this money, which is why you're in the market and not in cash or bonds or something like that.
- [15:04]
B
But you just described as a strategy called dollar cost averaging, which means you're putting money in the market at all times, consistently, periodically. You're taking advantage of all the different prices that can arise. But what do you think about buying the dip? Because I feel like that is maybe 10 years ago, that was something that was just floating around like subreddit threads that not a lot of average people were in. But after 2020, after like meme stock explosion, now people are saying they just throw that phrase out of buy the dip. Like, that's great investment advice. Like, what do you think of that phrase? And that mentality sounds great.
- [15:41]
A
And in reality, if you're buying at a price that is less than the price of the stock yesterday, it's a better deal if you think that stock is going to go up in the long run anyway, right? So anytime the stock market drops, putting money in seems to be a good plan. But to think that you can time the dip or understand when the dip actually happens is a false pretense unless you start to define what you consider a dip. Is it the stock you're investing in drops by a certain percentage? Is the stock market or a certain index, does it drop by 5% or 10% or 20%? Like, what is your marker for the dip? You have the definition and you have money ready to go to invest, and you want to hold on to see if it dips to that point. Great. Your risk is that it never gets to your dip. And your money sits on the sidelines and then the market goes back up and then you're like, well, I missed this round. I'll wait till the next one. And the next one happens two to three years from now, and your money's sitting in cash, earning much less than it would in the market itself. That earns like 20% for three consecutive years. Like, it's done recently. So you really have to understand your definition of dip and what it means to miss said dip and how that impacts your long term plan versus again just being consistent and saying I don't care when the dip is, I'm just going to keep investing, hitting those doubles all the way through.
- [17:04]
B
Yeah, I think buying the dip is very catchy. Sounds good, sounds like a great idea. But you actually implement it. I mean it's another form of market timing. Right. And we know that time in the market is more important than market timing because market timing is mostly a gamble. It's you putting a bet on red and saying like, all right, this is what it's going to be. You don't know.
- [17:27]
A
Right. And two, just I was thinking about like I remember in vividly in 2009 when like Citigroup was like $2 a share, like JP Morgan, like Bank of America were all like so small from a stock price perspective compared to what they were. And yes, I was just starting in the industry back then, 2007 and 8, but I was scared to death to put any money in the market because the sky was literally falling. Things were just happening in a way that just seemed really, really strange in an extreme case. So I didn't buy at that point, but if I did, that would have been great. Secondarily it's one stock versus not so I'll admit that when First Republic tanked recently, I had my banking with them. I thought they were a great company. I didn't see them actually failing completely and their stock price going to zero. I put some money in that dip and then it went to zero. So buying the dip doesn't mean that you're like you're scot free if you buy the entire market in the dip. That's one thing. If you buy one stock in the dip, that stock could fail or it could not. So it's very risky behavior if you start to narrow down your focus to one stock versus an index itself.
- [18:36]
B
Yeah. And I feel like that experience, I mean there's lessons that cut both ways. Right. Like you, I think in a good sense having the experience of a previous recession or a previous crash is helpful in a current one if it's happening because you've seen it before. And like you said, like it felt like the sky was falling in 2007, 2008, it felt really, really bad. And it might have felt bad. And during COVID in March 2020 probably did not feel good or very reassuring. But April 2025, when all the tariff stuff was going off for the first time anybody had heard of it. It was more panic. It's not that it's, it's different this time. Like you can say that. And yeah, the specific event that sparks it off is probably going to be different. Like all three of those things I just said were started by very different things, but the reaction in the market was the same. And then the subsequent recovery, the fact that a recovery did happen, that was the same. So it's, that idea of history doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme. So I think that's one thing that you could take from an experience in a previous recession, but then the other cut is you saw before those banking stocks go to almost nothing and they recovered in a huge way. So when you saw that again, you're like, oh, let me throw in some money and it didn't go that way at all. So your past experience, past performance is no, you know, guarantee of future results. I think that's important to keep in mind too. And I think all of it just underscores of no one person knows with precise certainty what happens next. Like things are too non linear, it's too complex of a system to think that you know what's going to happen even when you feel like you've seen it before, even when it looks familiar and you have very acute experience with it. So I think that's where it goes back to being consistent and like you said, hitting those doubles and being able to just keep staying in the game, stay steady, stay consistent and reduce, I think erratic action wherever you can is good. But I think that's my takeaway from what you were saying there of just like you just don't know. So you have to focus on fundamentals that you can have some, some trust in and a rules based system that eliminates emotion and you know, human bias and human error.
- [20:55]
A
Yes, right. All of that locks up your long term plan. And then there's the short term, there's the current day to day, there's the actual fear that you might lose your job, that your income will drop, that expenses will increase, that whatever happens disrupts your, your daily life and you want to protect your family. So what do you do about that? I think that's something we should dig into a little bit here as well.
- [21:16]
B
Yeah. So if you're seeing these, you know, troubling signs in the economy or you're just worried, you, you have a concern and you want to focus on what you can do because you can't change the macroeconomic environment, but you can influence how you use, spend or save or invest your dollars. So are there best financial practices that people can maintain with their short term cash flow or their immediate money decisions? Yes.
- [21:42]
A
And one of the things, there's the conversation about emergency reserves. So we talk about this with all of our clients every time we meet. What is your emergency reserve number and is it enough? And typically in times that are not so fear inducing and they're more peaceful and objective, people might say, well, you know, $25,000, $50,000 in emergency reserves is good, which is maybe it's one to six months of someone's monthly expenses. Maybe $75,000 could be the top end there, and everybody's fine with that. But suddenly when there's a fear, they're like, well, you know, maybe, maybe a little bit more. I think that the common theme here is that whatever your emergency reserve number is in times of calm, everybody wants it a little bit more in times of panic. And that's okay. If that's the case, maybe you keep a little bit more in cash, save a little bit more up in cash over the next couple months just, just so that you can feel better about that, Protecting you in a rising fear environment. With that, maybe the money that you would save for a major trip or a huge renovation, maybe you just punt that a little bit to keep it in cash to account for that increased emergency reserve number. Because I'm telling you right now, if you're a six figure earner and you have six figures in cash, you're probably feeling a little bit better than the person who is the same fixed figure earner, which means they're spending a lot of money too. That has $20,000 in cash.
- [23:06]
B
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I think having that big emergency fund can provide a lot of peace of mind. But you just want to be careful to reevaluate it. You said, you know, maybe save that cash for a couple months down the road, but don't let it get too far out in front of you. I think maybe checking back in another six months or another year and look at what your cash position is. Because there is such a thing as too much cash. Right. Cash drag is a real thing that's going to cost you an opportunity cost because we expect inflation to outpace the value of cash. It's going to reduce your purchasing power over time. So I think a big emergency fund in times of uncertainty is certainly a really nice security blanket. But nothing is. Set it and forget it. You have to come back to that at Some point and make sure that that's really the best use and the best place for your cash over time.
- [23:56]
A
Yeah. And I think another activity you could do is take a look at your budget, right? Maybe you haven't even looked at your cash flow and understanding how much you spending over months of time, like that's important. So you should ground yourself in that if you haven't already. But even if you have, play a little game of all right, how low can you go in this case? So cash flow limbo, I guess you
- [24:17]
B
would call it, that sounds a lot better than worst case scenario budgeting. I like cash flow limbo a lot better.
- [24:24]
A
And so what that would look like is on a monthly basis, how can we reduce our expenses so that in times of challenge, meaning like reduced income, how little can we spend and still be okay and not like struggling or on the street or something? Right. Just you're going to have fixed expenses that are pretty locked in. And then maybe if you can reduce your choice spending a little bit, you free up some cash flow and you have a lower spend rate so you could flip the switch and say, all right, emergencies happening, big emergency account, lower spending. We can get through this. We have two years, we can get through this. That's a huge relief because a lot of recessions don't last that long. So you come out the other end and be okay.
- [25:05]
B
I think that's a great exercise. Having an awareness of where your money is going to meet is very comforting because I do know, like, well, what if X happens? Like whatever scenario, worrisome scenario that my anxiety can dream up. I have a pretty ready answer of like, what if this happens? Oh well, I can cut A, B and C out of my budget because A, I know what my budget is normally I know where my money tends to go. And then if something happens, I know what categories of spending are either non essential, which means I can do without it not forever, but a period of time to get through whatever we have to get through. Or I know what categories of spending are right now, I can afford it and they feel good, they're nice to have, but if things change, they're not the most important thing to me or I'm not like super, super committed to using my money in that way. Like if it's there and we can do it, great. But if something happens, having those two categories of what's not necessarily essential and what isn't the highest priority or absolute most aligned with my values, knowing I can pull a lever, shut that off and lock down my Spending is really comforting. So I think that's a great exercise to do. Anytime you feel a sense of, you know, financial anxiety is to make sure that you know where your money is going right now and you know what you could change if a change needed to happen.
- [26:28]
A
Yeah. And so combining those two things with even a third thing of like, what is your plan B if you lose your job? Should you be looking right now, like working with a headhunter, a placement agency to find another position because you're eventually going to leave your job anyway and you just want to get ahead of that, or because you're really afraid that you're going to lose your job, but you don't want to. Maybe you have a here's how I would make money if I did lose my job scenario. I don't know what that would be. I mean, I'm just thinking like yard work. I don't. You just like, could you work in your neighborhood just to clean up yards while you are out of work or any number of things in that slot to just create some kind of income stream for yourself alongside looking at unemployment benefits as well, because that in Massachusetts anyway, you can earn $1,050 a week for like six months. So that gives you something as well as a backstop.
- [27:21]
B
I know why your mind went to like the landscaping is because you used to do that right way back in the day. So that makes sense that you would think that. So I think that's the point of whatever it is for you. Whether you did some freelancing on the side in the past or you a job in college doing whatever it was, look back what, what is in your skill set, what could you dust off, like if you had to, just another one of those things that might give you some peace of mind, knowing that like the world is not going to stop or end if something bad happens, that you can get through it, you've got some options. But you know, if the idea of losing your job makes me think of things like major decisions, like what if you're thinking about changing your job and you don't have something lined up? Or what if you are about to make a big financial commitment? How are you thinking about that in a. What could feel like a recessionary period? What do you advise on those big decisions, whatever they may be, whether it's a loss of income if you're changing a job, or just a change that you're looking to make and you don't know what's on the other side, or a big financial decision, how do you Think about navigating that if someone is worried about a recession.
- [28:28]
A
Well, I mean, the easiest thing, and we've mentioned this previously in this conversation, where just press pause on that thing. If you have a big backyard renovation, it's going to cost you $70,000 because you're going to get a kitchen and grill and the patio and all of the bells and whistles. Don't do that right now if you're afraid of that. Or you can say, you know what, I'm going to do it anyway. But I'm going to combine that with our reduced spending plan like we just talked about, like the emergency case spending. Maybe you just shrink down to that. Now do the project and then you're saving money on the project essentially because you're not spending as much at restaurants or other trips and things you're doing. So you don't have to necessarily pause your entire life because again, one, you may or may not be entering in a recession. You may or may not lose your job. And so if you look back and say, wow, nothing really happened to me and I wasted two, three years of my life worrying, probably not going to feel good about that either. But don't go crazy and say I'm going to start spending more than I normally do because I don't know, you're trying to release some stress. Be mindful. And if you can't get out of your own head, talk to your spouse. If that doesn't work, well, talk to an outside party like a financial advisor. Make sure that you're getting an objective third party view on your situation, not just some cookie cutter version of it, but like your situation, your feelings, your job, and the risks that you personally have in your financial life. If someone's not vetting that for you and helping you see things that you don't see, your blind spots, then you're missing out. So that's another layer of things to do. You don't have to do this on your own. You probably shouldn't when it's not your expertise.
- [30:02]
B
Yeah, and that takes us full circle right to the beginning of like the first piece of advice is follow your plan. And the second piece is if you don't have a plan, maybe this is your sign that you need to get one in place so that you have something to guide you so that you're not feeling like you just have to navigate, you know, fumble through the dark without any lights. You can flip that light switch on and then have some clarity and have some contingency plans in place even. It's not just like, here's the plan. If everything goes right, like good financial planning is, well, here's all the things that we can do, all the levers that we can pull to adapt as life happens. And if you're not sure where to start, we can help with that. You want to go to BeyondYourHammock.com forward/schedule. That'll show you some options for booking with us and requesting a free one page financial plan to help get you started, which is yours to keep whether you work with us or not and whether we're in a recession or not. Some of these best practices are good to maintain throughout your financial life, regardless of what's going on. So at a high level, keep some liquidity, have an emergency fund, maintain a gap between what you earn and what you spend so you always have some net cash flow that you can save. And more importantly, make sure that some of those savings are being invested. And be mindful, be aware of where your money is going, how you're using it, so that you're making sure you're putting it to your best use in a way that aligns with your needs, your obligations, your goals, but also your values, what you think is important.
- [31:35]
A
Nailed it. That's all that I would say. Nothing to add there.
- [31:37]
B
All right, well, let's hop off of here. We'll see you next time. Thank you for tuning in. I'm Kaylee Robert.
- [31:44]
A
I'm Eric Robert.
- [31:45]
B
Thanks for listening to another episode of Money for Life, hosted by Eric Roberge, CFP and founder of Beyond. You'd Hammock and me, Kaylee Roberge. Our show is produced and edited by Steve Stewart. If you want to learn more about wealth management and hiring your own personal financial advisor, visit BeyondYourHammock.com and now for the legal stuff. This podcast is for informational purposes only and does not constitute financial, legal or tax advice and may not cover all critical complete details of of every situation discussed. The views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the host or the podcast. Please consult a qualified professional about your specific situation before making any financial decisions based on this podcast or any other educational content designed for a general audience.