Best and Worst States for Saving a Down Payment on a Home

Summary

Money Guy Show – “Best and Worst States for Saving a Down Payment on a Home”

Hosts: Brian Preston & Bo Hanson
Date: January 7, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dissects the challenges and realities of saving for a home down payment across the United States. Brian and Bo dig into new data from Consumer Affairs that ranks each state by the time it takes for a typical household to save a 10% down payment on a median-priced home. The discussion then pivots to why these headline-grabbing stats are often more discouraging than helpful—and how “The Money Guy” methodology can help shortcut this timeline, even in pricier states. The hosts also share actionable guidance to make homeownership more attainable, plus they answer listener questions about net worth statements, Roth strategies, mortgages, and saving rates.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Shock and Awe” of Saving for a Home in 2026

Consumer Affairs’ Research:

• Ranks all 50 states by years needed to save 10% down on a median home, using statewide income, taxes, and living expense data.
• Fastest States:
  • #3 Texas: 10 years, 3 months
  • #2 Ohio: 9 years, 11 months
  • #1 Iowa: 8 years, 9 months
• Slowest States:
  • #48 New York: 23 years, 2 months
  • #49 Montana: 24 years, 5 months
  • #50 California: 25 years, 2 months

“If I was a young person, I’d be super discouraged… But we want to tell you, there’s a better way to do money.”
— Brian (02:51)

2. Unpacking the Methodology

• Consumer Affairs’ Approach:

  • Start with statewide median income.
  • Subtract typical taxes and average living expenses.
  • Assume households can save only 10% of remaining discretionary income toward their down payment.

• Example—California:

  • Median income: ~$100,000
  • After taxes & essential costs: ~$33,000 “discretionary”
  • 10% savings rate: $3,300/year
  • Median home: $832,000 → $83,200 (10%) down payment
  • Result: Takes over 25 years

“This is what Consumer Affairs said… all that you would be able to save is 10% [of discretionary].”
— Bo (06:34)

3. The Money Guy “3, 5, 25” Rule – A Better Way

• Guidelines for Buying Your First Home:
  1. 3% Down Payment: Acceptable for first home—most people can’t do 20% upfront.
  2. 5-7 Years Residency: Minimum time in home to weather transaction costs and market effects.
  3. 25% Rule: Mortgage, taxes, insurance should be no more than 25% of gross income (adjust if you don’t have car payments/public transport).

“If I didn’t put down 20% on my first home, why should you?… So we’re very realistic with this 3% down payment.”
— Brian (08:26)

• Recalculating the Timeline:

  • California example, 3% down:

    • $25,000 target (vs. $83,200 for 10%)
    • With the same $3,300/year discretionary savings, it takes about 7.5 years—down from 25 years.

  • Iowa example, 3% down:

    • $7,400 target, $2,800/year savings
    • About 2 years, 7 months

“Now… in order to save for a home in California, it would only take you 7 years and 6 months. That’s a far cry from the 25 years.”
— Bo (10:46)

4. Key Takeaways & Encouragement

• Location Matters: Lower-cost areas = lower barriers to home ownership.
• You Don’t Have to Be Average: Most people can save faster than the “average” stats if highly motivated and strategic.
• Stay Positive: Don’t be paralyzed by doom-and-gloom headlines; focus on what you can control.

“I don’t want you to be average on the way you look at your finances either. I want you to be a financial mutant and do things in a better way.”
— Brian (13:38)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Homeownership feels out of reach?
  “Now, I want you… Even in their methodology… there is a threefold difference. But even Iowa at eight years, nine months… that doesn’t get me jazzed up whatsoever.” — Brian (04:34)

• How do you REALLY save for your goals?
  “When you want to buy your first home, set down roots, people go pretty hog wild with it. They, they kind of go ham…” — Brian (06:51)

• Why only 3% down is okay (for the first house):
  “We have a no hypocrisy policy… rules are for everybody, not just for you know, rules for thee, not for me. I don’t like that stuff.” — Brian (08:26)

• You have more power than average:
  “You don’t have to be average… I want you to be a financial mutant and do things in a better way.” — Brian (13:38)

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Interactive Q&A Highlights

[20:15] – Net Worth Statements & Real Estate (Jimman444)

• Q: Should you mark rental property to market in your net worth calculation?
• Advice: For rentals, yes, marking to market is fine—if you plan to eventually liquidate. For your primary home, stay conservative and use cost + improvements.

[26:52] – Roth Strategies (Liam C.)

• Q: If Roth is so good, why not go straight for backdoor/mega-backdoor Roth conversions?
• Advice: Roth is great but be mindful of high tax rates in peak earning years. Sometimes pre-tax contributions + strategic Roth conversions later (when tax rate is lower) are optimal.

“Do I want to, while I’m in my peak earning years, pay 50 cents on every dollar…? I would say no.” — Brian (28:49)

[36:11] – When to Reduce Retirement Contributions (Keith S.)

• Q: Saving 25%, $500k retirement at age 36, $1M net worth… can I back down savings?
• Advice: Calculate your “number” and use a spreadsheet or planning tool (see MoneyGuy “Know Your Number” resource). Consider getting expert help before coasting—don’t back off prematurely.

[41:43] – Paying Off a Second Mortgage at 8.25% (Kenneth)

• Q: Should I pay this off early, or keep maxing retirement?
• Advice: 8.25% is generally high-interest—research your full picture, but “that would bother me if I had 8.25% sitting out.”

[45:33] – College 529 Fund Asset Allocation (Carson, High School Senior)

• Q: When should I move assets conservative?
• Advice: Start soon—cash out at least enough for the upcoming year (or two). Don’t play “timing” games with college money.

“It would be really sad if we had a 2008-type market… and all of a sudden you had 40–50% of your education funded.” — Brian (48:16)

[53:58] – Refinance Closing Costs – Cash vs. Rolling In (Hoke4)

• Q: Should we pay in cash or roll into the new loan?
• Advice: It’s a math equation. In “Step 8” of their process, with plenty of reserves and strong savings, paying cash is wise—otherwise, consider rolling in.

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Resources & Tools Mentioned

• Home Buying Calculator – moneyguy.com/resources
• Home Buying Checklist – moneyguy.com/resources
• Know Your Number Course – Tool & spreadsheet to determine your “coast FIRE” stats
• Financial Order of Operations (“Foo”, FOO) – Framework for your financial priorities

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Community & Money Guy Show Milestones

• 20-year Anniversary: Started in 2006 as a passion project, now a national platform.
• New “Money Guy Questionnaire”: Listeners invited to directly shape future content.
• Engagement with listeners: Q&A, polls, merchandise giveaways.

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Memorable Moments & Tone

• Light-hearted banter: Brian jokes about being a “financial mutant” and pokes fun at the tech setup and caloric habits (“I must be hungry…” 06:51).
• Celebration of audience progress:
  “76% have done their net worth statement. That’s unbelievable. That’s a clap!” (22:26)
• Behind-the-scenes: “We’re just two knuckleheads… It’s our 20 year anniversary today” (17:37)

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Final Encouragement

“Don’t let somebody just rain on your parade and tell you how bad everything is, because for all the bad, there is still a lot of positives… You don’t have to be average. You can be a financial mutant.”
— Brian (13:24, 13:38)

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For More & Next Steps

• Visit moneyguy.com/resources for all tools discussed.
• Fill out the Money Guy Questionnaire to shape the show.
• Remember: Homeownership is tough, but headlines exaggerate. Smart strategies and thoughtful math can get you there—often in far less time than the headlines claim.

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Money Guy Team Out!

Transcript

[A]

Have you ever been curious on which states it's easiest to get into a new home? We're going to cover that today.

[B]

Brent, I am so excited to talk about this because we know that home ownership is difficult and it's always been difficult, but over these past couple years it's gotten even a little more difficult. And there is some really interesting research and some really interesting data that comes out. But in my opinion, oftentimes the data that comes out and the research that we see is more discouraging than encouraging. And I think that it makes sense that we ought to dive into the numbers to figure out where the truth really lies.

[A]

Well, that's what I was going to say is when we went over this in the show meeting, I was like, look, life is already hard and when research comes out like this and gets starts getting press, I'm like, somebody needs to go into the numbers to actually give you the nuts and bolts. So, so you can figure out if this is something, is it the shock stat that we're about to cover or is there more to it? And that's what I like is that we're going to give you the shock and awe because this is what the press does, but then we're going to actually pull back the numbers. So hang in there with us. Don't just watch this and go, I'm tired of all the negativity, I'm tired of all the bad stuff. We're going to show you how even in a bad community or bad cost of living of where it's hard to get in your foot in the door of home ownership. Through our money guy methods and getting into the methodology, we can cut the years off of this by literally decades. So with that we can carry on.

[B]

As we're talking about this. There was a recent report from Consumer affairs that it ranked all 50 states and it ranked them by how long would it take for you to save up a 10% down payment for the median priced home in that state. So we're gonna have a medium priced home and we want to see what's the length of time it takes for us to save a 10% down payment. And so a lot of people are wondering, okay, well where does my state fall in? So we thought we would show you the three states that they ranked as the fastest to be able to achieve that 10% down payment and then the three states that were the slowest and I thought it was interesting where it was fastest coming in in the number three spot according to this research by Consumer affairs was Texas Based on their methodology, which we're going to dive into in a moment, it would take you about 10 years and three months to save up 10% for a down payment for the median home price. If we just pause there for a moment, Brian, and you're thinking about buying a house or getting into a home, how does it make you feel to hear that it might take 10 years?

[A]

And this is supposed to be the fastest.

[B]

This is the fastest.

[A]

It's very discouraging. But this is also, I mean, we've also seen the stat that's come out that the, the new age of homeownership for, for a while it was early 30s and then it went to 37.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And then most recently it's even crossed over into 40. It's already ridiculous. And then you see stuff like this where it says it's gonna take you 10 years, three months. And this is the fastest I would be if I was a young person, be super discouraged. But we want to tell you that's why we're going to be. There's a better way to do money. Just hang in there with us and we'll show you what we're talking about.

[B]

So Texas came into the number three spot. The number two spot was Ohio. And again, according to their method, it would take you 9 years and 11 months to be able to save up for a down payment for a median price home in Ohio. And then number one, the fastest state in terms of being able to save up for down payment is Iowa, if you want to purchase a home. And I would take you about eight years in nine months. So we're thinking about the three fastest or anywhere from eight years and nine months to 10 years and three months. Again, I don't feel like that's encouraging. I feel like that's discouraging. That's a hard pill to swallow.

[A]

Before we open the curtain though, let's go ahead and give them the real shock and awe on this and let's show the. The slow.

[B]

So the slowest states in terms of longest time period, it takes number three or number 48, I guess technically New York methodology to save a 10% down payment of the median home price in New York, 23 years and two months to do that. The 49th spot, Montana, 24 years and five months. And again, I don't think it was gonna be incredibly surprised by this. The 50th, 50th state, the slowest, longest timeframe it takes to save for a home is in California. According to their methodology, 25 years and two months to be able to save up for a down payment for home.

[A]

So congratulations. You sign up for Medicare and Social Security as you get your.

[B]

And then you get your first mortgage. Then you get, you get to do that.

[A]

Now, I want you. Now, look, we know even in their methodology, and we're going to get into this in a minute. But the best and worst, if you compared this, there is a threefold difference. I mean, but I even think, I'm not even like, it's not like I look at Iowa and go eight years, nine months. That's, that's ridiculous. That doesn't get me jazzed up whatsoever. So. So, Bo, why don't you walk them through kind of how did this Current affairs even come up with this calculation?

[B]

Yeah, let's look at their methodology and compare it to what we would consider a more reasonable methodology. And what they looked at is, okay, total down payment and savings rate. Now, total down payment was not that difficult to discern. They said, we want to look at the median home price and we're just going to assume 10% of that. So that's not a difficult thing. But when you determine savings rate and how quickly someone's going to be able to save and accumulate, this became a little bit different. This became a little bit more nuanced. And this is the way that Consumer affairs approach this. They said, okay, for each state, we're going to start with the median household income for that particular state, and then we're going to take out the typical tax burden in that state, and then we're going to take out the average annual living expenses for things like food, clothing, gasoline, housing, utilities, health care, transportation, and insurance. So if we think about California as an example, the median household income in California right now is a little over $100,000. They then take out the tax burden for Californians of about $27,000 on average, and they pull out the essential expenditures. And according to them, in California, that's just touch under 40,000. So if you take that, you come up with this number, that's about $33,000 of discretionary income. That's the number that defined. Now, this is what Consumer affairs said. If you want to save for a house and you want to be able to save for a down payment, all that you would be able to save is 10%.

[A]

Well, they just said that's what's reasonable.

[B]

10% of the discretionary income that you have to be able to attack that goal. Now, Brian, when you're saving for a house or when you have Like a big goal that you're saving for. Do you feel like that's the way that you save or do you say would you save a little more aggressively for a goal? Like.

[A]

No, I mean, it's a, it's a lot of people get very excited. Housing is obviously one of those goals. When you want to buy your first home, set down roots, people go pretty hog wild with it. They, they kind of go, you know, ham on trying to save. I must be hungry. You know, based upon giving all different methods. That's my methodology. I'm hungry.

[B]

And so. Okay, so, so let's look at how this played out. So again, in California, if we know the median home sales price in California right now is $832,000, and they said that you need a 10% down payment, that means you would need to save up $83,240, but you're only saving 10% of discretionary flow. So about $3,300 a year to save. Well, it's no wonder. What they came up with is that in order to get to 10%, in order to get to $83,000, it would take you 25 years and two months to be able to do that. I just believe, Brian, there's a better way to attack.

[A]

And this is, this is where I can wake up and get excited and tell you guys, this is where we're going to blow the doors off this, even using their numbers, because I like the data. The research that they were able to provide is now going to allow us to apply the money guy way and show you that this isn't as dire as they've made it out to be. And if everybody you're aware, if you listen to our content, we have the 3, 5, 25, which is you're going to put down on your first home. Not the upgraded house, not when you, you know, getting the bigger home and the bigger upgrades, but the first home that you've ever bought for yourself. We're okay if that down payment is 3%.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And you know why? It's because we have a no hypocrisy policy. Because if I didn't put down 20% on my first home, why should you? It's, you know, rules are for everybody. Not just for, you know, rules for the, not for me. I don't like that stuff. So that's why we are very realistic with this 3% down payment is reasonable on that first home purchase. Also, we want you to be in this home for at least five to seven years. At a minimum, because real estate has a lot of transaction costs. Plus you don't know if you're getting in a great time, bad time from price fluctuations. Time will be your friend. That smooths that out. And then we also want to keep your monthly costs below 25% of your gross income. I get it. If you're in a high cost of living area like that New York, that California, you're going to say that is wacko. But I just don't want you to be house rich, life poor. And also if you live in one of those high cost of living states, more than likely you don't have a car payment. So you might have another 8% to you could, you could work with the rules on because we have 23, eight for four cars as well. And if you have public transportation, you might be able to work out California. You have to just work within the rules here. I'm trying to help you here.

[B]

And so we think that 3, 5, 25 is a better way to buy a house. If you want to play with some numbers, if you want a really helpful tool, we would encourage you go to moneyguy.com resources and check out our home buying calculator and you can actually put your numbers in here to help you determine how much of a house could you afford, how much of a mortgage could you afford to make sure, like Brian said, you don't become house rich and life poor. So if we just take this 3, 5, 25 idea and assume that for folks that are trying to get into a home, they want to get into their first home. So we have to save a 3% down payment and we apply a similar methodology. Watch how the numbers change. We're going to buy the same house in California, $832,000. But instead of doing the 10% down payment, now we're going to do a 3% down payment or just a touch under $25,000. Even if we don't impact or change the savings rate, we still use their methodology on saving 10%, 10% of your discretionary cash flow. $3,300 a year. Now in order to save for a home in California, it would only take you seven years and six months. That is a far cry from the 25 years that their methodology and remember.

[A]

This is with their savings rate. I'm telling you, you're going to do more than 10% when you're really, you have that, that house on the brain. I just think that. So we've already cut this down to a third of what it was but it still is even a faster way.

[B]

And so that was for the longest house. What about in one of the faster states like in Iowa? So, again, same methodology. In Iowa, the median home sales price right now is about $247,000. We're going to save up for a 3% down payment. We need to save about $7,400 based on the median income and median tax burden and median living expense spend. The savings rate that we could count on if we're going to save 10% of discretionary cash flow in Iowa would be about $2,800 a year. So if I got to get to $7,400 and I can save 2800 a year, it would only take me about two years and seven months to save for a house in Iowa. This, again, is much more palatable, much more reasonable, much more in line with people that want to be homeowners. Actually being able to achieve that goal in a reasonable time frame. This makes me feel more excited. This makes me feel more encouraged.

[A]

Well, yeah, I think about. I mean, $7,000 down payment. You can do that even faster than two years, seven months.

[B]

Months, absolutely.

[A]

You put your mind to it. So there's some key takeaways. First thing, we all should move to corn country and move to Iowa.

[B]

That's it. Obviously, that's the big takeaway here. No, it's. It's not the takeaway, but where you end up moving matters. So when you're choosing where you're going to live, when you're choosing where you're going to settle, make sure you consider the cost of living. If you're looking in a major metropolitan area, understand that, okay, house prices are likely going to be higher than if I go a little bit further away. If I go a little bit out in the suburbs, in a different area. Make sure that factors into your calculus when you're making those decisions.

[A]

Yeah, and I just, I want to make sure we're the glass half full for it because I feel like there's so much content out there that is just dumping on the younger generations, telling them how everything is impossible. And look, it is going to be expensive. We don't stick our heads in the sand about affordability, but I just think that there is a better way. And we try to give you all the tools, all the resources, and it's going to be hard, but definitely not impossible. So don't let somebody just rain on your parade and tell you how bad everything is, because for all the bad, there is still a lot of positives. As well. I mean we just came through a financial year where the markets made great money, really good year. Hopefully people are seeing some type of opportunity with your careers and getting better money skills by watching our content. We're here to be with you. And I think that leads to the third point. You don't have to be average.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

I always get mad, you know, because look, I'm of the age now, in my 50s, whenever they show me stats on, I'm like, no, no, no, I'm focusing on my health. I'm focusing on these. I don't, don't give me for what a typical average 50 year old does because I'm not average.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

On that stuff. I don't want you to be average on the way you look at your finances either. I want you to be a financial mutant and do things in a better way.

[B]

And one of the ways or that we're going to help you be a financial means we have all kinds of tools for you to take advantage of. Again, if you, if you've not done this, go to moneyguy.com resource we have a whole home buying checklist. If you're trying to decide is homeownership right for me, is now the right time? What are the things I should be thinking about? We have an entire checklist out there for you. Moneyguy.com resources because we really do believe that there is a better way to do money. And we think that you don't have to be average. You can be a financial mutant. If you can be a financial mutant, the decisions that you make today can change what your future life looks like. And we're so committed to that, Brian, that we do this show and we put together these episodes and we sit down with guests. But we also, every Single Tuesday at 10am we like to show up right here and answer your questions because we care about what are the things that matter to you. So if you have a question that you want us to weigh in on, if you have something you want to get our take on, make sure you get it in the chat. Right now we have the team out in the wings, an extended enlarged team as of this morning out in the wings collecting your questions. So get them in there and we will load you up with that creative director Ribey, I'm gonna throw it over to you.

[C]

Yes. Can't wait to get to the questions. But I wanted to start with a big thank you to everybody who comments, who talks to us in the chat, who lets us know what you Think where you are, how these topics are hitting you. I love hearing from you all, but here's the thing. There's a lot of social media platforms. The chat kind of comes and goes every Tuesday, Right. And we see it. But I want to know your opinion in a more formal way where we are sure to see it and listen to it and really keep that data as we move into 2026 and think about what we want to talk about, what financial problems you're having, what financial solutions we can discuss. So I am very excited to tell you that we have launched the Money Guy questionnaire. Let's go. It is live right [e-mail] just go to moneyguy.com questionnaire and it just takes a few minutes to fill out. We want to know your opinion truly on all of our dream ideas. On topic ideas. We want to know what you want to see from Money Guy. So I'm going to throw some stuff out. Okay. If you've ever heard us talk about merch.

[A]

Oh.

[C]

If you've ever said we should do a live event.

[A]

Oh.

[C]

If you like our free resources and calculators and want us to do more.

[A]

I'm not being rude.

[C]

What?

[B]

Oh, that's a first.

[A]

He ran all over. I am very excited, but I'm. I'm just not gonna step all over.

[C]

But also, like free resources, calculators, if you like that we do those and make more of those, or if you like, when we do deeper dives on topics. You want to take this questionnaire and I want you to take this questionnaire. I want to know what you think. So while I can't promise every single thing will be implemented, every single thing will come to fruition or even maybe it will take a little more time, I don't know all those details yet. But first, the first step is I want to formally know what you want. So go to moneyguy.com questionnaire and take, take the poll. Give us your opinion. We really want to know what you think. And I cannot wait to see the results. Thank you for being part of the Money Guy family. And this is really just another opportunity for us to come together as a community and listen to you and hopefully just keep making your financial life just a little bit easier every single day.

[A]

You want to know why I was so quiet, Why I was sitting here thinking? I was like, holy cow, this is why Ribi's so good at her job, is because Bo and I, we're two knuckleheads. Oh, yeah. I mean, I, I've Been doing this show for 20 years now. I mean, can you believe we can say that?

[B]

And did you know it's as of today.

[A]

I know. That's what I mean. 20 year anniversary is today. Thanks for.

[C]

We didn't do. We did.

[A]

I know y'. All. Y' all let this sneak up on you. We had 20 years to prepare. Well, maybe, but. But here's the thing. But we're. We're gonna put that in the corner because I am so pleased, because when I saw the questionnaire questions in the content meeting this morning, I was like, bravo. I mean, because this is. It's all the things that we should have been asking for years. And I just. Please, I would ask you go in there and participate on this. We need to hear what your voice is. Just like y' all have helped us. What's so funny is it's interesting to me how we come up with ideas, and I think I can see how our brain works and the fact that we start. You know, I was inspired always by Millionaire Next Door and some of the other surveys out there in the marketplace. And I loved when we got started surveying our clients. And then we've expanded that to surveying our listeners to find out, you know, how you handle your money. It's crazy that we haven't done the same thing with the questionnaire to figure out what's things that you guys even more feedback into the content creation, into the merchandise, into the other things that we're considering as we're shaping the direction of where the Money Guy show goes for the next 20 years. That's right. I'm saying it for the next 20 years. So please go out there. I'll give the website again. It's moneyguy.com'snaire. Also, if you just want to go to moneyguy.com because I don't spell anything good. If you cut this off, I couldn't spell questionnaire because there's two ends there.

[B]

I know there's two something. I don't know if it's.

[A]

I would screw that up. So just go to moneyguy.com and I think we have a banner right now that will help you guide you right.

[C]

Into the questionnaire, lead you to that questionnaire.

[A]

Yep.

[C]

And if you're on your email list, you probably might have gotten an email about this yesterday. So also get on our email list so you can know about these things. Be the first to know.

[A]

So did it really sneak up on you all? It was 20 years.

[C]

I knew it was in January, but I forgot it And I feel terrible now. So I'm going to go.

[B]

I knew it was today.

[C]

Cry later. But why didn't you say anything then? I've been like, Ruby, what are we doing? We didn't scheme or do anything.

[A]

I even, you know what I've been impressed by is there's people in the comments section. I'll read the comments section if you're curious. And somebody even noticed that somebody had gone and backed into. These guys are about to be the 20 year anniversary. Yep.

[C]

I love it.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Amazing. Well, to celebrate you want to do some questions?

[A]

Yeah, let's do some questions. Let's go Happy birthday to the money guy show.

[C]

Happy birthday.

[B]

Everybody is real excited about 70 year old Brian cranking out some shows. Right? That's the math that everybody just did.

[A]

Let's go.

[C]

I'm here for it. It's going to be fun.

[A]

Hey, you know what? If we do this another 20 years, I still won't be at required minimum distribution age.

[B]

That's true. That's right.

[A]

See, there's positives perspective.

[C]

All right, we've got a question from Jimman444. It says when doing your annual net worth statement, do you include the increase in value of rental properties? I thought this would be a great question to ask because it is early January and is that most wonderful time of the year of doing your net worth statement. So what do you think by the way?

[A]

Because I know you'll give real answers. When I heard Jim, man, I heard J I m, nah. And then when I see it up on the screen I'm like, this is Bo's people right here. If you g y mm, you know, so go ahead. I'll let Jim Rat to Jim Rat talk to each other.

[B]

The answer is personal finance is incredibly personal. So can you increase the value of your rentals on your net worth statement? Can you mark them to market and can you use an estimated value? Absolutely. That's something that you certainly can do. And even considering that they are investment properties, I'm not even going to fight you on that. I'm not even going to give you because you know, we talk all the time about how we value our primary residences and we value them at original cost. We don't inflate them up unless we end up selling them so that the net worth statement stays conservative rental properties a little bit different. So you get to choose if you want to do that. Now here's one thing I do because Brian and I, we own a couple of different commercial properties rather than marking them up to value. I want to be careful letting my net worth statement move because of factors that are too far outside of my control. What I want to see on my net worth statement is how do the numbers change based on the things that I directly control, based on my savings rate, based on the way my investments are growing, based on the way that I'm paying down debt, those types of things. Just because I happen to be in a really hot real estate market and something might change and might go up in value, I want to be careful getting too excited about increasing those real estate values, especially if I have no desire in the near term to turn those into liquid capital. If I know that I have real estate problems going to be long term properties, I likely care more about the income that they're generating than the capital appreciation that might show up on my net worth statement. So if it were me, I would probably list them at cost plus improvements. But I'm not going to fight you if you want to do them at market value.

[A]

Yeah, I think look for investment property, it's perfectly fine if you want to do market value. Here's what I would use as the decision matrix for myself is the reason we get so hard on personal residences is because it's just hard to. Unless you, you have to, you have to sleep, lay your head down somewhere. So we just don't want you to have this false sense of that you have all this money or net worth behind you when it's all just tied into your home net worth. Because like Bo, you even talked about your house that you, you bought in 2020.

[B]

Yeah, we built it in 2020.

[A]

It's already doubled 100. So I mean if we just counted that, that is that what did you do to create that?

[B]

Just living.

[A]

And could you use it? Because if you moved here in Williamson county, you would more than likely have to still come out of pocket. You'd have to come way out of pocket. Your interest rate would probably be twice the rate of what it currently what you're under. So maybe three. It's just there's a lot of stuff there. It would not be a positive for you to sell this. You'd have to go move to Iowa to actually make this work for you is what we learned from the content earlier today. And that's just not the reality of the world. Now with investment property, I'm willing to give you a little more grace. So here's the thing you need to ask yourself is how are you looking at your investment property? And if you think you, you are going to use this as part of your retirement. And you're also being honest with yourself that this is going to be liquid because real estate's not liquid. But some markets are more liquid than others. And if you think that, hey, this market, I would be able to move this asset and yes, I'm going to leave, use this asset, even including the appreciation in my retirement plan. And you know, so there's a lot of assumptions going into this. By all means, I think you could, because you've now leaned on the fact that this is going to be usable assets for my future and built into the plan. What I don't like is when people use their primary residence in the net worth and it's an artificial comfort because you're going to live in that house. And if you had to go reset where you lived, it's just so hard with interest rates and without moving and changing school zones and everything else. And I think a lot of people are fibbing to themselves if they, if they're, if they're not going with that more conservative cost plus improvements to keep you honest.

[C]

Well, Jim, man444, I hope that helps as you do your annual net worth statement. And you know what? Today's the day of celebration. I'm going to go off script and call today Tumblr day.

[B]

Oh, look, I think this is three weeks in a row. Remy's feeling good.

[C]

What's two in a row?

[A]

Holy. I love Tumblr Birthday day.

[B]

Tumblr birthday. We're giving out birthday presents for our birthday.

[C]

Jimmy.

[B]

I like that.

[A]

Better to give than to receive.

[C]

If you would like a money guy, Tumblr, just. Email winner moneyguy.com can we do a quick poll?

[B]

Okay. I'm just curious about our financial means. Could we do a quick poll of who has already completed their net worth statement? Like, can we ask our audience? Yeah, can we do that?

[C]

Content team.

[B]

Content team.

[C]

See if we can get in the chat.

[B]

See if we can get those, those knobs.

[C]

We'll check back.

[A]

Yeah, I, I had to confess because I didn't even. This microphone just attacked me. Y' all see that? I didn't even get into town until Saturday night. So I didn't even get to work on my net worth until yesterday. And I was, I was twitching about it a little bit.

[C]

But you got to it.

[A]

I got to it. I didn't get it completed because the problem I realized, and I haven't both been so busy that to get access to see what my wife's assets are worth in the investment programs. I need Beau's help because I don't have all of her user ID and passwords. I do, but then it sends a message to her phone and it's just magical. It's a mess. So Beau is part of my net worth process and I and I haven't been able to go get what her 401k and Roth are worth.

[B]

It's so funny. These guys even like each other off. But you're seeing it, right?

[A]

Like it is a crucial part of.

[C]

The process, but it is proof. Right there. Right there. All right.

[A]

Does that make you happy to know that you're the delay of why I couldn't complete all the liquid assets?

[B]

I love that.

[A]

Updated all my stuff though.

[C]

Let's let folks answer that. Have you done your net worth statement yet? Question in the chat. And we'll do another question and come back to it. Liam C. Is up next. It says if Roth assets are so amazing, why not just go straight for backdoor Roth or mega backdoor Roth conversions all the time? Are there any downsides?

[B]

Well, okay, you asked. In the testing world, we call this a trick question, right? Because should you take advantage of backdoor Roths and should you take advantage of mega backdoor Roths? And for those of you that don't know, backdoor Roths are where you make too much money, you can't put money directly into a Roth ira, so you have to fund a traditional ira. Do not take the deduction, you convert it to Roth. It's called a backdoor. Mega backdoor is where you put money into the after tax portion of your 401k and you convert those after tax contributions to Roth. It's a completely tax free conversion because you've already paid tax on the money. Do we love those and should you do those whenever you can? Most likely yes. Because what's happened when you're following.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Well, the thing for me, when you're following the financial order of operations and you're in the place where you're having to begin to make those kinds of decisions. I need to do backdoors because I can't do direct and I need to fund after tax. It likely means that you've already exhausted all of your pre tax opportunities. You've likely already done your full salary deferral, the $24,500 into your pre tax for 1K. So you've done step six and now that you've done that, you are looking at the other areas where you can still get some tax incentivized saving. If Liam really wanted to ask a good question. I think of the way I would have, what would have, would have switched it is, hey, should I just do Roth salary deferrals as well?

[A]

Well, that's, here's the downside is because for both of those things you have to have high, you're in the highest of income tax brackets because anybody. Because backdoor Roth means you make too much money to do traditional Roth contributions. Mega backdoor Roth means you make so much money that you go maximize the 415 limits. And that is, you know, that's over $70,000 for somebody who's my age.

[B]

So it's 72. Yeah, yeah, 72 is the new 415 limit.

[A]

Is that even for everybody? For everybody.

[B]

Plus catch up for over 50.

[A]

So we're getting close to $80,000. So. So to be able to save that level of assets, you got to be cranking through some, some high incomes. So now let's say, well, okay, so if you're making that type of income 37% marginal, I mean federal marginal rate, and then if you live in states like California or somewhere else, it could be 12, 13% on top of that. So and then you put on top of that, what if you're self employed and you've got, you know, surcharges and you've got, you know, the self employment taxes and those type of things, it's conceivable that 45 to 53% of your money is just evaporating to taxes. So as much as I love Roth money, do I want to while I'm in my peak earning years paying 50 cents on every dollar I earn to taxes, Is that the best use of it? I would say no, because more than likely what I could do is take advantage of all these huge savings opportunities, take the tax deduction now, because now I'm saving essentially the government's funding half of my contribution because I'm saving that much in taxes. And then if I leave the workforce before required minimum distribution age at 75, I might have an opportunity where I get to legally manipulate the tax code by doing Roth conversions at much, much lower tax rates. Because think about how many states also exclude retirement type distributions and other things. Plus you're in a lower tax bracket for a federal standpoint because you don't have earned income anymore. All of a sudden your light should be going off and going, wow, this is, yeah, I love Roth. It is my favorite child. But when I, when I know that there's a headwind of 50 cents on every dollar going to taxes, I'm going to be thinking a little bit different about how I'm making those contributions.

[B]

That's right. That's exactly right. So, Liam, it's not a. Is it bad? It's not an either or. It's a both. And we love when we see folks doing all these things maxing out pre tax.

[A]

You should be doing backdoor, though.

[B]

Doing back door. Doing the mega backdoor if you have.

[A]

The right account structure. I do need to always remind people because I still remember one of my dearest friends, he wrote me, this is probably a year and a half ago, and he's like, brian, I did that Roth conversion. I saw that show. I mean, I did the backdoor Roth contribution. Cause I saw your content on that and I was like, I almost said his name. I said, you can't do that. You have, you have ira.

[B]

You have a big SEP ira.

[A]

You have a big IRA sitting out there. And he's like, oh. And I was like, so make sure you have the right account structure before you just start gripping and ripping. That's what this is. One of the reasons this is, this is why we do what we do is that I love for you guys, when you get into more complex stuff, consider taking the relationship to the next level if. Because this is exactly what we help our clients navigate is doing the backdoor contributions to their Roth IRAs, making sure it's right on the tax return. Because by the way, that gets screwed up all the time too. Also working through, should you be doing Roth conversions if you're leaving the workforce early or even in plan conversions if you're. If your plan allows that we look at all that stuff.

[B]

Yep, that's great.

[C]

If you want to learn more about abound wealth, you can click on become a clientoney guy.com and learn a little more about it. And also to Liam C. If you would like a money guy tumblr, just email winneroneyguy.com.

[B]

People are asking for it. I'm glad you did it. Yeah, I'm glad that's the first one.

[A]

I mean. And by the way, we're still doing in true tried before portion. I'm using as a tumbler. I mean I'm actually using a koozie Bo's using as a tumbler.

[C]

It can transform in case you wondered what that sound was.

[A]

Yep.

[C]

Okay. We have some results from the poll. 76% say yes.

[B]

They have financial mutants. That's unbelievable.

[A]

That's probably killing the microphones, but still it's worth a clap. It's Worth a clap.

[B]

We love to see our editing team.

[A]

Yeah. They're like, o. No clapping on air. By the way, solid. Solid choice for us not to run AC Today.

[B]

It is so hot. I wasn't gonna say, how did we.

[A]

Just make the decision that we were gonna just hot box this thing?

[C]

I just knew that I wasn't free.

[A]

Like, happy birthday. Make it hot as it can be because Brian's gonna wear layers. And by the way, I wore a shirt because I want. Look, I don't mind. It's a live stream, but we're gonna be recording other content.

[B]

You taking. Look. Hey, that's.

[A]

I wanted to show a little pride. I mean, I know my dog. I know my dog's lost, but. But I'm still proud of them. I'm proud of my dog.

[B]

I am, too.

[C]

I thought the sweater was gone.

[B]

I thought he was.

[A]

I mean, I'm hot enough to take it off, but I'm not.

[C]

Probably for the best, especially, you know.

[A]

If you do stuff like, you ever. You ever take it. Y' all aren't. You're in good shape. So you probably hope when you take your, like, layer off, you usually show your belly. And I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna make that mistake publicly.

[C]

On that note, have you not noticed?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Every time.

[A]

That's why I know my wife is a good wife. Because sometimes when I, like, take my thing off, she'll grab my shirt, you know, the shirt underneath, and give a helping hand. She doesn't want that belly to be exposed either. That table muscle.

[B]

That's hilarious.

[C]

This is really funny. Oh, man.

[A]

God, it is. I think I just got hotter talking about it. You did. Jeez, if I start sweating, it's not because we ate hot wings. It's because they hotbox.

[B]

By the way, did you see that there were a lot of requests for, like, money guy hot ones. Did you see that?

[C]

It keeps popping up.

[A]

There were. Can I. Can I. It's a new year.

[C]

Had some ralliers for that new year.

[A]

20 year anniversary of the show. I have a request for my audience. Oh, is that thing says 75. What are we doing here? We pay the bills. We can afford ac. But here's my request for the audience. All the times I see, like, hot ones, I see. You know, I even see it. Like, even some of the bigger shows, like Rogan, you know, others say, hey, what's an odd. What's a person we should have on?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I never see our money guy people. Y' all are so active for us, but I Never see anybody out there pitching us to have the money guy show because that's what. If you want to know what really drives the engine because we're not a big corporation is when we collabs are a big part of it. We're trying to do more and more collaboration. So if you can be part of that engine or maybe you have a conn connection on some of these, these bigger shows. A friend of a friend. We're not against it. Look, I even have, you know I found out that an organization I give charitably to is involved with a comedian in town and I'm. I'm even working that in because I'm like look I'm. I'm beyond now trying to figure out how. Let's figure out how we can. We can push this thing to the next level.

[B]

So if you have the hot ones we'd love to.

[A]

I don't know if I get. I'm worried about my. I think it'd be great TV or.

[C]

Great reaction and Bo Hansen but I.

[A]

Think I'm not a hot. I mean I would, I would, I would probably die.

[B]

I don't eat spicy. I mean I eat spicy stuff but not real spicy stuff. I don't like being uncomfortable.

[C]

Neither of you are big spicy people so that would be.

[A]

I mean we order hot ones short.

[B]

Lived but like I get them like but.

[A]

But we don't order hot.

[C]

Yeah it's not the same like we.

[A]

Do people like get the. Is it. Get the cluck out.

[B]

Oh from Hattie B's. Yeah.

[A]

Like we don't do those type of hot Nashville hot chickens. We stay. We. We stay more mild. You don't have to go that hot to where you make yourself sick and don't enjoy the rest of your vacation.

[C]

Wow. The whole rest of your.

[A]

Probably ought to answer a question on a financial show.

[C]

We should. Keith S Has a question. It says how would we know how much we can reduce retirement contributions if we have been contributing 25% and DDD plan forecasts show we are well ahead of retirement needs. We're 36, have 500k plus retirement balance and a net worth of $1 million.

[B]

Let's go.

[A]

I'll let you answer the technical but I want to give Keith some just finger in the air feedback on this as I know most people don't cross millionaire status until they're somewhere between 47 to 49 years of age after saving and investing for 27 years. So the fact that Keith has already got over half a million dollars in retirement assets a million dollar net plus net worth, and he's 36 years of age. So, you know, you think about that. That's 11 to 13 years ahead of schedule. That's pretty amazing.

[B]

Yeah. I think what's interesting, do we. Do you have wealth multiplier over there?

[A]

I do.

[B]

At 36, the wealth multiplier.

[A]

What is, what is it? I got to go to the back page for that one. 36 is 11.33.

[B]

Yeah. So you just think the work that you've done up to this point, if you just took that $500,000 of investments and multiplied it by 11.33, that's what you're on your way to without even saving anything else. So you. And let us tell you from where we sit, objectively, you are way out ahead of the curve relative to your peers, like other 36 year olds. To have half a million dollars of investments and have a million dollar net worth is unique. You're in a fantastic spot. And so your question was. I had to read it twice. I thought you were saying, hey, when, like, how do I know when I can back down? But that wasn't actually your question. You asked, how would I know how much? Okay, I feel like I'm in a great spot. How do I know how much? That's one of the reasons why we designed the know your number course. Because the way that you determine how much you can back your savings down is really a mathematical function. You have to determine, okay, what's the finish line? What's the goal that I'm working towards? And once I can define the finish line and I understand where I'm at today, my starting point, then I can put together what's required to get me from where I am today to where I ultimately want to be. And that number will tell you what savings rate is required to do that. Now, let me give you a few, A few caution. What am I trying to say here? A few, like, words of caution.

[A]

We.

[B]

There was an episode that released yesterday of Making a Millionaire with Danielle. If you've not watched this episode, you should watch it because she was in a fantastic spot as a young person and she had this desire to do coast fire. And she said, hey, here's what I'm gonna do. I've really been killing it since I've been young. I want to back down now so that I can hit this number. And then at this age, it was like 37, I'm gonna back down even more and I'm just gonna coast. And we said, hey, we love that. That's a great idea. Have you done the math on it? And what we did is we had this wonderful conversation and we actually did the math with her for her, showing her, hey, the goal. The thing that you want to do is possible, but the strategy that you have in place right now is not likely to get you to where you ultimately want to be. There are some tweaks and some changes that you should make now. And it was purely a mathematical function of how much do I need to be able to live the life that I want to live and how much do I have to save now to get there? So, Keith, what I would encourage you to do is one, go watch that episode and two, work through that exact same exercise. If we know what our goal is and we know where we are today, what steps are needed to accomplish that. And this is one of those times, Keith, where when you begin trying to answer those kinds of questions, it does get a little more nuanced and it does get a little more complicated and you begin to introduce yourself to maybe, I don't know, all the things that I should know. This might be a wonderful time to consider having the conversation about when it might make sense to bring on a professional to take the relationship to the next level. Because you've only navigated this one time, but a well seasoned professional has likely done this hundreds of times. So we would encourage you if this is something you're really thinking about and you're going to make a big decision, like backing down your savings or taking your foot off the pedal, you want to make sure that you're doing it at the right time and you don't have a false sense of optimism like what Danielle had.

[A]

I was just gonna share because you said the know your number course, which it is a course. But when I hear the word course, I'm like, it's gonna be feel good. You know, unicorns, roses, and those type of things. No, this is actually a tool as well. It's actually got a spreadsheet built into it for you to go navigate and you figure out if you're ahead of the curve, behind the curve, or right where you're supposed to be. And I even liked it because it really lets us nerdy folks toggle the numbers. You can change rate of return, you can change your savings rate, you can change inflation predictions. I'm dropping stuff. So it's really valuable to let you kind of toggle and find out exactly where you are in that process.

[C]

That's great, Keith. Thank you for the question. Just email winneroneyguy.com if you would like to cash in on your MoneyGuy Tumblr, Kenneth has a question. Next. It says, hey money guys, I'm stuck on a decision to pay off a stage second mortgage at 8.25% rate early. So he's paying that off early or continue to max out retirement is a second mortgage technically high interest debt? How does he decide?

[A]

I mean, we're going to need more information, but I will tell you, eight and a quarter doesn't get me excited. I mean that's, that's well above, I mean, because right now mortgage rates are below 6. So to know that you're paying over 3% headwind, that's probably, that's, that seems like a bridge into high interest debt.

[B]

Let me tell you some questions I'd want to know the answer to, Kenneth. I'd want to know how old you are. I'd want to know what the rate on your primary mortgage is. I'd want to know what your asset structure looks like outside of this home, and I'd want to know what your income and savings rate looks like. I'd want to have all of those different variables to determine, okay, what does make the most sense? Because depending on your age, eight and a quarter percent may indeed be high interest. If it's high interest, it falls into step three. You got to really extinguish that. But perhaps based on where you are and based on your age, maybe eight and a quarter is not all that higher. Maybe it shouldn't be considered high interest for you for some unknown reason that we may not have clarity into. Because I also want to ask, what are your long term plans with this house? Is this a house you plan on being in for a long time or is this a house you think you're likely going to sell in the next year, two, three, four years? So I'd want to know all of those variables to help discern and determine does this qualify as high interest debt? Because I think so often people just make the assumption when it comes to personal finance, it ought to be one size fits all. Oh, if I got a mortgage, I got to pay it off. Or oh, if I have car loan, I got to pay it off, or if I have student loans, I got to pay it off. And there is nothing wrong with getting rid of debt, with paying it out. We love being debt free, we love folks not being encumbered. But we recognize that every financial decision we make has an opportunity cost associated with. If I choose to do this, I'm choosing to not do this. If I choose to pay this off, I'm choosing not to deploy the dollars elsewhere. And when it comes to finance, we think there's a better way to do money. We want you to make sure that you're making optimal financial decisions that give you the highest probability of reaching your ultimate long term goals.

[A]

But real talk though, Kenneth, in the fact that financial mutant to. I don't know if you're a financial mutant, but I'll talk to you like you are. That would bother me if I had eight and a quarter sitting out like that. So, you know, do the ma. Do the homework that Beau is suggesting and to figure out where you are and where the purpose is. But then any margin or excess you have in your life, let's extinguish that because that would just. Yuck. That would just not be fun to have sitting on your net worth statement.

[C]

All right, good stuff, Kenneth. Thank you for being here.

[A]

I know you've had to do some research on home equity lines and stuff. What, what was the rates that you found when you looked at it last year?

[B]

Well, when a year or so ago it was like seven and a half, seven and a quarter. So this, this seems high. But here's what I don't know. I don't know. I'm just thinking through all the different scenarios we've seen. This could have been something where Kenneth bought his home and he had a primary in order to get the May mortgage to piggyback.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So, so this is really an interesting thought exercise. Again, we don't know values, we don how much is there. But let's say that his primary mortgage is at seven and a half and he also has this secondary that's like eight and a quarter. Well, rates have come down now. 30 year rates might be somewhere like six and a half, seven percent. So it's just worth entertaining and looking at all of the different options that you have available to you to make sure that you make the most optimal decision. Because the decision that makes the most sense today, given today's interest rate environment, might look different than the decision that would have made the most sense three years ago. That's why again, it's a, it's very nuanced and it's very personalized.

[A]

Almost like personal finance is personal. That's it.

[C]

It's personal. Kenneth, if you would like a money guy, Tumblr, since we answered your question today, email winneroneyguy.com Carson has a question. It says, I'm a senior in high school.

[A]

Oh man.

[C]

I have a 529 account for college with about 80% of my four year tuition cost to earn my CFP degree.

[B]

Let's go.

[C]

It's currently invested. When should I start moving funds to less risk?

[B]

You're going to Carson.

[A]

If you're a senior, he's in the window.

[B]

That means that graduations in May, semester.

[A]

Starts and you don't have to do it all at once because by the way they're not going to make you pay all four years of your tuition when you show up on your freshman day.

[B]

But that August tuition, that's pretty short term money, right? Like that's there.

[A]

I would definitely diversify. I would be starting to dial down that out asset allocation on that money.

[B]

This is one of the reasons why because in and Carson you may not struggle with this but we see this all the time. Someone finds themselves in a situation like oh okay, well yeah, but I think the market's going to have a good first quarter. So maybe I'll just, maybe I'll just wait until March and then the market kind of goes down a little bit. Oh well gosh, it was so much. But maybe I'll just wait until. And you get into this mindset where you begin trying to time it and trying to play with it. It's one of the reasons why when it comes to goals like 5 or goals like education funding and we look at 529s we love and this is a, this is a time where like a targeted date type fund is a wonderful solution because if you're 529 we're invested in some sort of target date fund. The glide path would have likely already happened for you. So when you were younger and these dollars were building they would have been more aggressive. But now as you are approaching that time when it is you are going to need these dollars and tuition is going to come due. It's probably going to be in a much more conservative allocation where you actually have liquidity available when you need it. So I would think certainly for this first year and maybe even for two years I would start thinking about having cash available no matter what happens in the market.

[A]

Oh yeah. I mean the typical, the allocation that a 529 is going to do if you're using their age based program, it's pretty, it's getting probably pretty close to 100% of this money is going to be in short term.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Reachable assets. So you can. So that right there, that ought to be an indicator that you at a minimum probably want at least half of this money to be off the table because you have the next two years covered of college. But that doesn't, I mean, because that's the thing is it then becomes a personal decision on how fast, you know, wind down the. I'm assuming you're in a 100% equity allocation of some sort. It's back to an analogy we made at our last live stream that I was at, which was Bo was talking about playing Russian roulette and I was talking about landing an airplane. Is that neither? You know, there's ways you've got 80% of your education funded. It would be really sad if all of a sudden we had a 2008 type market and all of a sudden you had 40 to 50% of your education funded. And now you, instead of coming out of college probably debt free, you might have to come out of college with student loan debt. All because you were getting really cute and sensitive trying to time the market. Don't get caught up in those games.

[B]

I'll tell you what, Carson though, to be a high schooler and to be in this live chat listening to this show, good for you, my man. That is awesome. The future looks bright if you can start figuring out how to make wise financial decisions now and you take that through your college career into your early adulthood. The sky is the limit for you.

[A]

By the way, for an 18 year old. Because I have a dear friend that was on our family vacation over the Christmas break. He's turned 18. Today I give a shout out to Finn. His wealth multiplier at 18 years of age is 107. Think about that. Every dollar you save by the time you retire is going to be worth close to $108. Don't sleep on that.

[C]

That's powerful stuff. Anytime I see a question or comment that's like I'm in high school or I'm listening with my high schooler, I'm like, yeah, like they have so much opportunity. It's just so fun and we're really glad to have you, Carson. So thanks for your question. If you would like a Money guy Tumblr, we'd love to send you one. Just email winneroneyguy.com Next question is from Jack M. It says my work matches our 401k contributions in a single lump sum contingent upon working through the end of the calendar year.

[A]

Last day provision.

[C]

If I'm planning on finding a new job this year, should I redirect those funds?

[A]

That's only on the matching money.

[B]

Yeah, because your money is still going in there. Still reinvested and we still want you again. Assuming that you're in the right place of the financial order of operations right now. If you have high interest debt or if you don't have a fully funded emergency fund, then understand where you're coming from here, right? You're like, ah, maybe I shouldn't do this because I'm going to leave. But what happens if you don't leave? And we see this all the time, people have these plans, they're like, man, I'm planning on finding a new job, I'm planning on looking, but what if that doesn't happen? You don't want to get to November, December, like holy cow. I had this wonderful opportunity to go make 100% rate of return, a 50% rate of return and I thought I wasn't going to be there, so I didn't do it. In our experience, most often, if you can get a match, if you have the ability to go grab a match, even if there's a chance that some of it may be forfeited, it likely still makes sense to go do it just in case it doesn't get forfeited.

[A]

Well, and Bo, if you're curious where Bo came up with those things about the employer match versus emergency reserves and high intensity interest debt, he was using the financial order of operations. You two can go download this. Go to moneyguy.com resources I was personally thinking about myself the two jobs I left before I went and started my own firm. I left the public accounting firm. I put in my notice, it was like April 16th or whatever it was. No, I did it right. I didn't want to stick my employer during the middle of tax season. So I'd plant plus. I mean, let's face it, this is something I always tell people. Pay attention to when bonuses are paid. You know, if you, if you know that you will get a large year end bonus, don't go transition to your new job on November 15th. I mean that is because you have worked 11 and a half months of the 12 months to get that year end bonus. And they're more than likely not going. You don't get the year end bonus if you put your resignation in or the big profit sharing contribution, whatever it is. That's why the second firm I left, I put in that notice on November, I mean on February 15th. And it was primarily so I could capture the two things I wanted to capture my year end bonus and I wanted to make sure I qualified for another plan year on the retirement plan. That stuff went into my Calculus on. Once I made the decision that I was leaving, I was like, okay, now that I made the decision, I'm going to leave this job. Now let's talk about when based upon all the variables of bonuses and other things. And also, I mean, back when I was working in government, I was troubled by police officers that would leave the county government that I was working with to go to a neighboring county. When they were at that time, the vesting into the pension was much, much easier. And they were to be within 12 months of being vested in the pension and see people leave to go get a job in a neighboring county for 5% to 10% pay raise.

[B]

Heartbreaking.

[A]

It broke my heart because they just weren't doing the calculus on what is that pension, you know, some benefit from that pension worth. So take into account when you're making those big life decisions. This is part of the measure. Twice, cut once. Timing matters on some of these employer benefits.

[C]

Well, Jack M. Thank you for the question. We would love to send you a money guy Tumblr before I go on. Email winneroneyguy.com if you would like to get one. All right, we've got another question from Hoke4. It says, hey, MoneyGuy team, the wife and I are 28. In step eight, we are refinancing our home from a 7.5 30 year to a 5.9925 year.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Should we pay closing costs in cash or roll them into a loan? We have cash and plan to stay for seven years.

[B]

What do you think, Brian?

[A]

Well, this is always a math equation. It really is. Because, you know, I know we think right now 599, by the way, that kudos to you. I mean, because you dropped your interest rate by, by, you know, over a percent and a half. That, that's pretty powerful stuff.

[B]

And if you've been in the house for five years, you're staying on the same payment schedule, which isn't crazy.

[A]

I kind of, I like the logic that you're going on this. The thing is, and I don't mind, you know, paying cash for the closing costs, but it's just sometimes you, you'll find out with, when you start getting to this refinance game is that if you go and you set, especially if you shopped the refinance, you might be able to refinance not once but twice, you know, and you're going to be. The closing cost is just part of the field of play and it goes into the equation. So that's why I've seen where you can actually, especially on such a big drop in rates, you might be able to just take a little hit on the rate, not have any closing costs because of the way they price the structure out with the thought that if rates dropped another half a percent to a percent, you could do this game all. If you pay cash, it is a sunk cost at that point. Whereas if you roll it in. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't do the calculation. And what I'm talking about, doing the calculation is you figure out the payments and you figure out how many months it's going to take you to break even on this. I mean, do you agree or disagree?

[B]

No, I agree with you. I'm just thinking through when Hoax says that they're in step eight, that tells me it says my wife and I, so this is a married couple. When I hear that we're in step eight, there's a few things I know. I know you got a fully funded emergency fund. I know that you're maxing out Roth IRA or perhaps, perhaps a Roth and a spousal or perhaps backdoor Roths. If you have an hsa, I know you're maxing that out. You're also in your employer sponsored retirement plan, maxing those out or at least saving 25%. Or if you're step seven, you're saving 25%. So if you're doing that hoak and you're at the place where you've got a substantial bucket of assets behind you and you have an income that constantly. This, generally speaking, and I just love.

[A]

You just convinced me.

[B]

Just, just paying cash for the closing costs. Now if you're someone and this is like, you're like, man, I'm my first home and I've been saving for a down payment and I'm 28 and I don't really have a lot behind me yet, well then that, especially at a 5.99% rate, I do think it'd be justifiable. Okay, roll the closing costs in so that way you can get some dollars working for you. And to make up for lost time, you kind of have to triage where you are right now. But just based on the context clues, I'm leaning towards telling you just to write a check, cover the closing cost in cash.

[A]

That step eight is doing a lot of work. And that's what, that's, that's a great point because we don't, I mean, it does bother me when people, when you roll the cost in because you know you're gonna be paying those costs for, for years to come. It's, it's something to be aware of. Also, you know, a lot of people, I don't know if we, we talked about this. When you refinance those home origination fees or any points or anything. And so when you first buy the house, that stuff's immediately deductible when you file your taxes and if you itemize. But when you refinance, it's amortized over the length of the loan. So that's something to be very mindful of as you're, as you're keeping track of things.

[B]

That's great.

[C]

Well, Hope4 thank you for the question. If you would like a Money Guy Tumblr, just email winner moneyguy.com and don't forget your opinion matters. I want to hear it. Go to moneyguy.com fill out the money Guy questionnaire and let us know what types of things you'd like to see from money guy in 2026 and beyond. Even if we can't do every single one right away, we will know that you want it and we will take it into serious consideration. So I'm excited to go check out all of your responses, read your comments in this official place and remember it's only gonna be open for a week, so do keep that in mind. We want to get everything in one place and so don't sleep on this. We really appreciate you taking just a few minutes of your time to let us know what you want because we really are listening.

[A]

Yeah. If you want to do a. Because like I said, this is a 20 year birthday celebration for the Money Guy show. Hard to believe.

[B]

It's crazy.

[A]

I mean, I think about that in the fact that creating content creation is such a unique thing. Because this thing, if y' all don't know, a lot of you, because a lot of people don't know is because now this thing has turned into its own enterprise. This really did start as a passion project I felt back in 2006. I was so inspired when I got my first ipod. I always wanted to be a schoolteacher. I thought I was going to close my career out being either teaching in high school or teaching at a college, personal finance. And then when I got my first ipod, I was like, eureka. This is the thing that's going to change the world. And I was like, this is my opportunity to do this. And I, I just did it as a passion project. I still never forget when I won't say her name, but the first she's still a client of the firm and she'd probably love to know that we're still giving her shouts out in 2008. Because we started showing to January 2006, 2008, I had a listener who had a layover in Atlanta airport, and she asked if we could just meet up so. Because she was thinking about hiring me. And I was like, you want to hire me? I never thought that this was going to be a marketing platform. It was more of an education platform. And then I think about that conference I went to. I wish I could remember what year that was, but was that like 2012, 2013, 2014, somewhere in there where I had an advisor that, you know, the show had gotten enough traction at that point that I was bragging about how big the audience was. And he was like, how many, how many clients are you picking up from this? And I was like, you know, I told him, he goes, wow, that number is so small compared to the audience size. He's like, are you asking for business? I was like, I can't ask for business. That would totally blow this thing up. It'd be like an infomercial then. And he was like, no, I think because I think based upon what you're giving away on that show, you could start asking for business. I came back and I told Bo and I was like, you know, Raj said we should start asking for business. And it was like the most dumb. You know, it's the most basic thing. But that's when we started talking about taking the relationship to the next level. And you guys have shown up and you have revolutionized this, the ability. And then I think about us just getting into YouTube, turning a podcast into a YouTube platform, and then adding all the other platforms and now having multiple studios, multiple employees. Thank you. I mean, I hope that comes through, is that we are so thankful for everybody here who's made the money guy go beyond this pet education project and turned it into an actual world changing platform. I mean, I really do. Even this morning in the content meeting, if you haven't gone to our website, go check it out because this thing has been just completely beefed up. I mean, I give kudos to Riby and team because this thing is a. The search engine is legit now. In the past, we've had issues with it and we even have some other ideas that we're kind of working in beta fashion behind the scenes on that will take advantage of some of the newest and latest and greatest technology that we're even kind of previewing internally. But this thing is a resource to help you turbocharge this because I've realized we have the perfect platform to create the abundance cycle that is a win win. Come take all the free stuff we can give you so you can turbocharge and take your relationship, you know, and your assets to that next level. But when you do take those assets to the next level and you start feeling that success, I hope you'll remember who planted all the seeds of knowledge, all those nuggets. And that's when the abundance cycle takes the relationship to a whole nother level. Because we work with clients, I think we're in 48, 49 states at this point. So thank y' all for making this all possible. It's way beyond when I do these studio tours, I'm just a guy with an ipod that just want to be a schoolteacher. And y' all have made us world changers and that means a lot to us. I'm your host, Brian, joined by Bo, Reby and the rest of the content team. Money Guy Team Out.

[B]

The Money Guy show is hosted by Brian Preston and Bo Hanson. Brian and Bo are partners with Abound Wealth Management. Abound Wealth Management is a registered investment advisory firm regulated by the securities and Exchange Commission. In accordance and compliance with the securities laws and regulations, Abound Wealth Management does not render or offer to render personalized investment or tax advice through the Money Guy Show. The information provided is for informational purposes only, may not be suitable for all investors, and does not constitute financial, tax, investment or legal advice. All investments involve a degree of risk, including the risk of loss.