Die With Zero? Watch This First.

Summary

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Money Guy Show — "Die With Zero? Watch This First."

Hosts: Brian Preston and Bo Hanson
Date: July 22, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the book Die With Zero by Bill Perkins, its provocative stance on spending versus saving, and how its philosophy fits (or doesn’t) within the Money Guy Show’s framework of disciplined financial planning. Brian and Bo analyze the book’s concepts like memory dividends, gifting while living, time buckets, and the pursuit of lifetime happiness. They critically weigh "Die With Zero" against other popular financial philosophies—like Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover—and explain the importance of nuance, encouraging listeners to carve out a middle path (“the Goldilocks solution”) using their own Financial Order of Operations.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to "Die With Zero"

• Book’s Premise: Challenges the traditional “save, save, save” mindset; encourages spending and creating memories at optimal times in life.
• Hosts' Stance: Appreciation for the message, but with cautions and “asterisks.”

  “I like the book. I like the premise...I just have a few asterisks of concern.” — Brian (01:27)

2. Major Principles from the Book

Memory Dividends

• Concept: Investing in experiences creates lasting happiness (“emotional dividends”).
• Quote:

  "Experiences...keep paying emotional returns, emotional dividends for years and years and years to come." — Bo (03:25)

• Hosts’ Take: Memories matter more than stuff. Even tough or 'bad' memories can lead to fond reflections later in life.

Time Buckets

• Concept: Different life stages are best for certain experiences due to varying combinations of health, time, and money.
• Wisdom:

  “When you’re the most vibrant, when you’re healthy, you’re broke as a joke. And then when you’re loaded, you’re probably not healthy enough and you don’t have the time.” — Brian (04:23)

Changing Retirement Spending Patterns

• Explanation: Go-go, slow-go, and no-go periods (active to less active in later retirement).
• Implication: Plan spending with flexibility for health declines and unforeseen events.

Giving While Living

• View: There’s value in seeing your loved ones benefit from your resources rather than waiting for inheritance.
• “But” Caveat: Don’t give too much too early—responsibility and timing matter.

Maximizing Lifetime Happiness

• Philosophy Shift: Don’t defer all gratification; maximize happiness now and in the future.
• Key Quote:

  “Money is nothing more than a tool...there’s got to be a balance...so you don’t have regret.” — Brian (06:25)

Skepticism: Should We Die with Zero?

• Book’s Assertion:

  “If you die with $1 million left, that’s $1 million of experiences you didn’t have.” (07:41)

• Hosts’ Caution: That thinking is binary; a nest egg offers more than just missed experiences—security, flexibility, and legacy.
• Main Challenge: You can’t know when you’ll die or what you’ll need; aiming for exactly zero is impractical and risky.

3. Critique: Where Die With Zero Falls Short

Over-Saving Not the Real Problem

• Most Americans are under-saving, not over-saving; the primary message should still be about building resources early.
• Quote:

  “A warning against over-saving is not the message most people need.” — Bo (11:45)

Power of Compounding—Start Early!

• Delaying saving in your 20s costs you massive compounding growth.
• Hosts reflect on their own early sacrifices and how skipping early wealth-building is a “huge mistake.”
• Example multipliers: $1 for a 20-year-old can become $88; at 30, it’s only $23.

  “Don’t sleep on the power of compounding growth, especially while you’re young.” — Brian (12:27)

Personal Fulfillment Often Not About Money

• Evaluating happiness sources usually leads back to relationships and purpose over material wealth.

4. Framework Comparison: Ramsey vs. Perkins vs. Money Guy’s "Goldilocks" Approach (13:41)

• Dave Ramsey: Extreme discipline born from being burned by debt—great for those struggling with overspending.
• Bill Perkins: Extreme risk-taker who became wealthy young—advice may not fit average household realities.
• Their Solution: Millionaire Mission and the 9-Step Financial Order of Operations—balances discipline and fulfillment, accessible to regular earners.

  “We are the Goldilocks system...Live your best life, but also know how to be disciplined.” — Brian (18:12)

5. Rapid Q&A and Listener Advice (21:06–55:25)

Notable themes from the answers:

Early Retirement & Taxable Investing

• If you want flexibility before retirement age, build up after-tax/brokerage assets (Step 7).
• Resource referenced: Show on “Three Ways To Retire Early” (23:51).

Car Buying & Emergency Funds

• Follow the 20/3/8 rule: 20% down, max 3-year loan, 8% max of monthly gross income.
• Use emergency savings for car down payments if needed; then replenish quickly (25:25).

Annuities & Net Worth

• Immediate income annuities should be counted as removed from net worth; they become a “footnote” as a future income stream, not a current liquid asset (31:05).

Kids & Budgeting

• Most child-raising costs are manageable except child care/daycare. Don’t stress about stepping down your savings rate temporarily.
• Use “3D Glasses Planning”: model best-case, realistic, and worst-case scenarios (41:40).

Mortgage Payoff Before 35

• Prioritize funding retirement (25%), then it's your choice whether to pay off mortgage early.
• If math checks out, paying off a 5.625% loan is reasonable (55:25).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Dangers of Rigid Systems:

  “It’s always chicken or egg—was it the system that created the success or the sales of the system?” — Brian (16:20)

• On Water at Restaurants (Comic Relief):

  “Would you like tap, flat, or sparkling?” “Both. No—what I want is free water.” — Bo & Brian (34:06)

• On Becoming a “Miser” Versus “Mutant”:

  “There’s a fine line between being a financial mutant and being a miser. You maybe need to read Die With Zero!” — Brian (37:11)

• On Pillows:

  "I'm ashamed at how late in my life it took me to buy blackout curtains. Do that tomorrow." — Bo (49:07)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 01:02 — Why “Die With Zero” Still Resonates
• 03:25 — Memory Dividends & Value of Experiences
• 04:06 — Time Buckets & Spending Across Life Phases
• 06:25 — Money as a Tool & Happiness Maximization
• 07:41 — Hosts’ Qualms on “Die With Zero” Literalism
• 11:45 — Most People Need to Save More, Not Less
• 12:27 — The Magic of Compounding for Young Savers
• 13:41–18:12 — Comparing Financial Systems: Ramsey, Perkins, Money Guy
• 21:06–55:25 — Extended Q&A (See listener topics above)
• 55:25–58:08 — Paying Down Mortgage vs. Investing
• 58:38–End — Closing thoughts; why a blended approach works best

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Summary & Takeaways

Die With Zero offers vital reminders: experiences matter, timing matters, and maximizing happiness is key. Brian and Bo praise those insights but argue for a more nuanced, balanced approach. Most listeners need to save early and consistently, leveraging compounding, while still making room for meaningful experiences. Blindly adopting the die-with-zero mantra can be risky unless you have wealth to spare or are in a unique life situation. Ultimately, the “Money Guy” method seeks to help listeners find a middle path—enjoying life now, building security for later, and using money as a tool, not a master.

Final Wisdom:
Don’t fall for one-size-fits-all solutions. Know where you are, what your tools are, and what brings you real fulfillment. Adapt principles to your personal situation, and—importantly—start early!

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For tools, calculators, and more resources:
Visit moneyguy.com/resources
Or check out Millionaire Mission and the Money Guy Financial Order of Operations.

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[C]

The book Die with Zero keeps coming up.

[B]

Watch this first Brian I am so excited to talk about this. Even though this book has been out for a while, I still feel like it's very much out there in the zeitgeist. Like it's out there, people are talking about it and people are thinking, okay, should I take what's in this book? Should I be using the things that are in this book and should I allow it to inform and change the way I think about my personal finances?

[C]

Yeah, it's come up multiple times on our show Making a Millionaire and I want to go ahead, I want everybody to stay until we give the final word on this because I think I have the perfect bead that's going to bring this all together. And I think this is one of those things where I'm going to share with you. I like the book. I like the premise of the book. I just have a few asterisks of concern and I think once I share open the curtain and share with you what this book is great at and what the issues with this book, you're going to start to see the full picture with other great books that I also because it's one of the things we live in the same neck of the woods as. Like Dave Ramsey, Dave wrote a great book in the 90s called the Total Money Makeover. But it has issues and like I said, if you stick with me as we go on this journey, I'm going to put this all together and wrap it up with a nice bow where you can kind of see how you need to apply all of these great books to your financial life.

[B]

So for those of you who are unfamiliar, maybe this is the first time that you've heard of this. There's a book called Die with Zero written by Bill Perkins, and it was actually released a number of years ago, back in 2020. And it kind of set the financial world on fire. Not that there were any, like, really, like, new crazy concepts, but the way that he distilled the concepts and laid them out, I think caught a lot of people's attention and it resonated with a lot of people of, oh, I like that. I like the way that sounds. I like what that says. And so we thought perhaps it'd be helpful to go through some of the key principles that he lays out in the book.

[C]

Well, think about. Every financial book is telling you lean in on discipline, you know, live on less than you make. We fall into that. That camp of things. And then you have this book come out when big bright letter says die with Zero, you're like, wait a minute, that means I can go spend more. That is appealing because instead of being brake pedal, it's definitely the gas pedal or accelerator. And that gets people excited.

[B]

So here are some of the key principles. The number one that's in there is this idea around memory dividends. It's the fact that experiences that you have earlier in life or even in the time of life that you're having them can keep paying emotional returns, emotional dividends for years and years and years to come.

[C]

Yeah, and we talk about. I mean, even in my book, I've shared blossoming memories. Because what I love about memories is it so much better than stuff, is that even stuff that are bad memories or difficulties can blossom into key things that actually are good in the long term of the way you remember it. That's why we love creating memories with your family, your friends. They definitely pay dividends.

[B]

Another principle that Bill talks about is this idea around time buckets that there are certain experiences that are best done in certain seasons of life. And not only all seasons of life are equal. So the experiences that you ought to have at each of those seasons isn't exactly the same.

[C]

Well, if you think about time, health, and then money as all your resources, it is kind of unfair in life is that when you're the most vibrant, when you're healthy, you're broke as a joke. And then when you're loaded, you're probably not healthy enough and you don't have the time to do everything you want to. So I actually love how Bill was able to really draw attention to, is that there is definitely a moment in time to maximize this Resource of money.

[B]

And then he walks through that. Even as we age and as the life transition takes place, that retirement spending changes. Oftentimes there's a slow, a go go period, a slower go period than a no go period. And then as our health and energy change, the way that we spend money changes. And so that ought to impact and affect the way that we make our consumption decisions.

[C]

And then that leads to, and I like this one is because now that I have ad children or adult child, because my second one is still in the household, but there is something about giving while you're living. Is that a lot of people. Now look, I think I'm going to, because my daughter is still in her 20s, I don't want to give her too much too early. But I do think there is something about if you have children who show good responsibility, good management, and you are very fortunate and you've done well in your life to create success, there is something about seeing the fruits of what you've created while you're still alive versus waiting until you're dead and somebody inherits it or passes it on to charities and so forth.

[B]

Now, what's interesting is, Brian, the last time we talked about this book, we actually caught a lot of, like, negative feedback as though we didn't like the book or we disagreed with all the premises. And that's just not accurate. There are a lot of things that we really like about the book, and one of those is that all throughout he kind of talks about focusing on maximizing happiness. And it's not just about like deferred gratification, maximizing happiness in the future. He's talking about what we like to call maximizing lifetime happiness. How can I be happy both in the present today as well as happy in the future? We love that idea. We love that.

[C]

Well, because it hits on this next point is that money is nothing more than a tool. So if you can't figure out hoarding it and becoming a miser is obviously not healthy. And so there's got to be a balance between how do you use this tool of money to not only be disciplined with it, but also to. To live your best life so you don't have regret when you get into being your 50s, 60s and 70s, and look back at your 20s and 30s and go, wow, you did a great job balancing both living your life, but also saving for the future.

[B]

And with money being a tool, what that means that there's likely not a ton of utility for leaving this earth and leaving behind as large of a pile of money as possible. We know the statistics would suggest that the second generation is going to burn through a big chunk of that wealth and the third generation will finish off what's left. There's no point in not enjoying your resources, enjoying the money while you have it, and leaving this giant legacy behind that your children and your grandchildren have. No, no trouble spending.

[C]

And this is an echo of something we just said is why instead of leaving the legacy behind, emphasize actually making an impact while you're alive so you can enjoy that legacy and actually see the fruits of, and the dividends of what you've created now there.

[B]

So, okay, so we, we like a lot of these ideas. And I think even in there, Bill had this quote. He says, hey, if you die with $1 million left, that's $1 million of experiences you didn't have. Ah, that. That's where. That's where I start. My spidey senses go off just a little bit. Because while that can be true if you die with a big pile of money, yes, certainly you could have used that. But there's other utility that having that excess, that having those resources there could provide for. I don't know that I agree that it's as binary as that statement would suggest.

[C]

Well, what I have found through the wisdom of actually going through this journey of starting off, both of us start with humble beginnings, but then figuring out how the tool of money works is once I've reached this level of success, I've recognized that a lot of my success comes from a bunch of small, really good decisions, but definitely small that culminated and grew into this pot of money. It's hard for me to say that, like being super disciplined in my 20s, I've gotten a lot out of that. That's why what I'm telling you is it's squishy to try to figure out which decision is what led to your success. So, yes, we've often shared we're not going to leave this earth with our families being broke and other things. But I don't necessarily think that that means I shouldn't have started saving in my early 20s, that maybe I should have lived my best 20s and gone hog wild and then really gotten disciplined in the 30s. I don't think that's the right answer either. And that's why in a minute, I'm going to kind of bring this all together and show why I think that there's some. Some issues if you go heavy into this philosophy when you're especially a young person.

[B]

Yeah. I think one of the questions that we would pose to someone who's like really like subscribing hardcore to the die with zero ideas. Would you rather die with a million dollars left behind or would you rather in your retirement, in your financial independence planning, come up a million dollars short because of unforeseen circumstances? Because there's tons of things to think about when you're doing longevity planning and especially when you're, you're counting on your resources to provide for you the remainder of the life. And the number one variable that none of us know is we don't know

[C]

how long we'll live.

[B]

People ask my time, oh, I want to die with zero. I want to die with zero. I want to die. Great. If you can just tell me exactly when you're going to check out exactly when you leave this planet, I can put together a plan for you to die with zero. Absent that variable, it's going to be very, very hard to do because of the unknown.

[C]

Unknown. Well, you also don't know how long you can work or how long you'll make great money. That's the other part that there's always a big question mark on that. When I have some people in my 20s and 30s and they're just crushing it and they're top, you know, 10% income, top 1% income. Is that something you'll be able to repeat forever? We don't know. So that's, that's the part of that you have to play that into your consideration.

[B]

And then the, the, the, I don't, I don't want to say scary, I don't want to say frightening, but it is a reality, is that we all go into financial, go into financial independence, go into retirement with these best laid plans. I want to do this, I want my life to look like this. I've got it all mapped out. But in reality we don't know what's going to happen with our healthcare, we don't know what's going to happen with our long term care. We don't know what's going to happen with our either physical or cognitive decline. And so not knowing those is really difficult to project. Okay, well how much do I need to leave in reserve to be able to account for those things? Again, these are variables that we just don't know. And the older we become, the longer we live, the more impactful those unknown variables can become.

[C]

And that can be. Markets are unpredictable. It also can be, you know, a lot of people, we've found this as financial advisors, they underestimate how much they're going to spend because those go go years are legitimate. When you get out, you might find that once you actually retire those first few years, you're going to spend a lot more than you count them. Because traveling is expensive, hobbies can be expensive. There's just a lot of things that I find that people underestimate how much they need versus overestimating in a lot of planning situations.

[B]

Okay, so what are you, what are our thoughts like when we, when we step back? Because again, it's a fantastic book and we love the ideas that are espoused in there. But what are the thoughts that we have on the surface? I think the first thought that immediately comes to mind is that a warning against over saving is not the message that most people need. If you look at the average American in this country, the average American is not over saving. The average American is not on a path or trajectory to leave behind a huge pot of money. So I don't think that this is something that the average American to grab onto. The average American actually needs some motivation to probably start saving more and start building more for the unknown.

[C]

Yeah. And we know that the typical American doesn't start saving investing until their 30s. But if you go and play around, if you go to money.com resources and look at our wealth multiplier tools, you'll see there is something magical. That's why we are constantly talking about 88 times over that every dollar for a 20 year old can be 88 times. But a dollar for a 30 year old can only grow, you know, to really 23 times, you know, and you're like, how did all this stuff drop so fast? And that's why you don't sleep on the power of compounding growth, especially while you're young.

[B]

Yeah. I think about the decisions that I did not make in my twenties that I could have made. I could have gotten the nicer car, could have gone on the nicer vacation, could have bought the nicer clothes, could have bought the expensive watch. But in reality, if I go look at the cost of those things, the marginal cost from the vacation I did do versus the vacation I could have done, that marginal cost when applied to wealth multiplier becomes huge. Whereas now at this stage of life or Brian, even at your age, the marginal difference with a wealth multiplier is just not as significant. I think a lot of young people miss that idea. Oh well, no, I'm going to go blow it out in my 20s, not recognizing how costly that can be to their future self.

[C]

Yeah. And I do like the exercise of figuring out what makes brings you happiness. I think a lot of times you'll find out it's the, the non financial stuff. It's spending time with family, friends, spiritual stuff. That's really where happiness and fulfillment. But I want to kind of bo if you'll give me the chance to kind of bring this all together, do it. Everybody's got a system, you know, and I kind of alluded to this in the beginning and you have to be careful what system you're going to use for your financial decision making. And I'll give you two extreme examples. And by the way, D0 fits into this category. Let's take Dave Ramsey and Total Money Makeover. You know, Dave has created a system to where if you think about the origin story for this, young Dave in his early 20s found out about levered debt, went just hog wild with it and then got burned. I mean he was like, had such a horrible experience with levered debt that he went teetotal. Debt is so bad that I'm going to avoid it. So it created an extreme that has kind of pushed him on this, this level of being super uber conservative. You don't do any credit cards if you need to drive around in a clunky car that may or may not crank. There's, there's just things. And look, we love Dave's system because let me tell you give you an example to, to a degree, when I have a friend or a relative who gets into credit card debt and I say look, you have to live on less than you make or you'll never build wealth that goes in one ear and out the other. But I can go give them total money makeover. And Dave, because he shares and he has a way of motivating people on the extreme of not having any discipline. He can straighten them out. Now take Bill Perkins with Die with Zero. This is a person that yes, comes from humble beginnings, but he reached millionaire status before he was age 30 because he figured out how to do high risk trading. And then he was good at it. He had a vision and ability to where it wasn't his labor necessarily that created his wealth. It wasn't necessarily his discipline. It was his ability to take huge risk and then get rewarded for it at a super early age that he kind of now has a distorted vision. Just like Dave has the distorted vision of he got so burned with debt that he teetotals avoids debt. Bill had such a huge experience with using the tool of money for, you know, with taking risk that he created money so easily That I think he, he underestimates how hard it is for people in their 20s on normal career trajectories to come up with six figures to $200,000, $300,000 is because money was easy once he figured out how to use the risk profile of risk. So where, where Bill is really good is if you're hanging out with a bunch of rich people and you know, and you look at a rich person and say, hey, I notice, you know, like I think about, there's this funny story of Dale Earnhardt Jr. Where he's getting into racing, his sister's getting into racing, and Dale Earnhardt, you know, the intimidator, wasn't giving his kids any money because he was like, hey, I'm gonna. You need to go do it all on your own. And it wasn't until a wealthy friend of Dale Earnhardt went to him and said, hey, why are you doing this? Why don't you help your kids out? So if you've got somebody who's more not financial mutant, but financial miser, with the way they're using the resource of money because they're still doing vacation super cheap, they're not using, I think dial with zero is a great tool. But to give a 20 something dial with zero and say, hey, you don't need to, you know, go live your best life now. There'll be time to make great money in the future and save for it. I think that that's also an extreme that's too aggressive because you're going to lose out on the wealth multiplier. You lose out on compounding growth. And that's why I tell you, I like both of these books. But there is a Goldilocks solution, and that's Millionaire Mission, and it's our financial order of operations. And let me tell you why I say this is better. What I have tried to pour into and we've poured into our content is that it's always the chicken or egg what created success out of a system. Was it the system that created the success or was the sales of the system? And that's the thing I can tell you, my financial life, I never made great. Now, look, I'm in a blessed situation now, but where I think the income that I have coming in would create success no matter how bad or good I was with money. But that wasn't always the case. And that's what I love about my system, is that I struggled with meaning I was, had to be disciplined, made reasonable incomes all the way up until my early 40s so I can honestly look you in the eye and say the system created the success. Meaning that if you follow the financial order of operations and go through our nine steps, even if you don't make world class income, you'll be okay. You know, as long as you follow this path, it will work. And that's the thing that I never had to fall into the debt trap that Dave did. I was always disciplined. I didn't have to realize, hey, I got to go make $300,000 or $400,000 a year to have the success that Die with Zero is talking about. I'm here to tell you there's a better way to do money. And we are the Goldilocks system to help you navigate this. And we don't have to do that by trashing the other systems. We're just exposing to you where they fall on the risk spectrum. Now, if you're in credit card debt, go follow Dave. If you've got a parent that's kind of being miserly, maybe dial with 0. Or if you have a friend that won't go on vacations or do spring training to make memories with you and your other buddies because they're just so tight, give them dial with 0. But if you're trying to navigate, how do you do this in a reasonable fashion, that's the best of both worlds. Live your best life, but also know how to be disciplined.

[B]

Millionaire Mission, I love it. So if you haven't read Millionaire Mission, you should go pick up your copy or if you want a free copy of the financial order of operations. Brian, you have the thing.

[C]

You know, for me, that's what I was looking for. It was on the bottom of the stack.

[B]

It was on the bottom of the stack. You can go to moneyguy.com resources. It is a nine step process to help you know exactly what, what you should do with your next dollar. Because we do believe that there's a better way to do money. We believe it so much that every Single Tuesday at 10am we sit right here answering your questions. We want to speak to the things that you are curious about. So if you have a question, we have, we have a big team out in the wings today. Do you see all these people?

[C]

Yeah, we got a lot of people in the studio.

[B]

If I, if I could reach the camera, I'd pan it over. There's a ton of folks over here. They are collecting your questions. So if you have a question, make sure you get it in the chat right now and we will load you up. So with that creative director Ribe, I'm going to throw it over to you.

[A]

Yes, I am excited to dive in. Are you ready for the first question?

[C]

Yes, we are indeed ready.

[B]

By the way, I missed being here last week. I just want to say that I'm

[A]

happy to have the gang back together.

[B]

I heard you did wonderful, though.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

I saw some comments. Did you answer some questions? Like, were you weighing in and answering some.

[A]

I mean, on some. I do that.

[C]

And by the way, nobody, you don't have to adjust your color. It's true. Beau showed up super tan. I showed up up super tan. We both have had some time at the beach.

[A]

I did not show up super tan.

[C]

So it's not a color distortion. It's just me and Beau have gotten way too much sun in the last few days.

[B]

What's funny is, like, this is super tan for us. And people are like, really?

[A]

They're like, okay.

[C]

Really? No, I think you look pretty tan.

[B]

I feel.

[C]

I feel like my face is definitely redder than it should be right now.

[A]

All right. With that, we're going to move to the question from our friend PJ Dad Life.

[B]

I do think it's.

[C]

We know now.

[A]

He says Money Guy team Monday's couple on Making a Millionaire wanted early flexibility but saved heavily in retirement accounts. When should taxable investing become the priority?

[B]

Oh, man, this is a. This is a great question. And it's. It's one that we get a lot. And if you're not, if you don't know what he's talking about, one, make sure you subscribe to the channel right now. Go ahead and click the subscribe button because every other Monday, we have a brand new Making a Millionaire come out where we sit across from an individual couple and do a deep dive into their financial life so you can get a peek behind the curtain of what it actually looks like to apply all of this stuff that you learn in the Money Guy Show. And so we were sitting down with the couple that released this past week, and it was exactly that. They had a lot of retirement assets. They had a lot of wealth that they had built up there, but they were trying to figure out, okay, well, what if we do want to early retire? How do we get access to capital? We get that question all the time, Brian.

[C]

Yeah, and that's what, you know, when we were designing, and that's what I love about the financial order of operations is, you know, the first few steps are to keep you out of the financial ditch, you know, so you don't make desperate decisions. There's of course, free money, there's high interest, debt. A lot of these things are common sense. But when you get to step five and six, we love the tax incentives that the government has set up for you to start saving and investing. So we want you to take advantage of those systems with funding out your Roth ira, doing health savings accounts, and even maxing out your employer plan. But for somebody who thinks they're going to leave the workplace early, this is step seven. Once you get beyond saving and investing 20 to 25% of your income, you have to start thinking about, how am I actually going to use this money in the future? And if you think you're going to leave the workforce early, you know, before 55, especially before 55, man, you better have access to some capital. Because those retirement accounts, you might be retirement rich, meaning you have a ton of IRA and 401k assets, but you're still financing cars. You don't have any money to do all the things you want to do. That's where step seven is going to help you out, is because you actually start thinking about how you go use this money, live your best life, and you're back. Wait a minute. If I'm going to get access to this money at 52, 53, that's not going to be an IRA, that's not going to be a 401k. I probably need to start doing a portion of this into after tax brokerage accounts. Still investing the money. But now you can get creative and say, okay, well now what's the balance between how much goes into a Roth ira, how much goes into my employer plan? Well, we definitely want to get the match, but now maybe we want to start loading up that after tax just so we build that bridge account for early access to the money when you need it.

[B]

We actually, we did a show. Justin, you're gonna have to help me with the name of this one. It was four ways to retire early that you may not know about. Is that right? Or it was a number of ways to retire. And in that show, we walk through rule of 55, we walk through 72T, we walk through Roth conversion ladders, and we walk through building up a taxable account. So there are pj There are things you can do and strategies that you can implement. But I will tell you this, the earlier you figure it out, the earlier you start thinking about it, likely the better of a plan you're going to be able to build, the more flexibility you're going to give yourself. So if you've not Gone to listen to that show. Maybe put a link in the comments below. Three. Three ways. I just named four right there. So you just got an extra one. Three ways. We need to update that show that you may not know about.

[A]

Great. That was an abrupt ending. But PJ dad life.

[C]

Thank you for your question, by the way. So my watch is blowing up over here is because we have a guest in the studio that's a neighbor of mine and my wife is like, make sure everybody says hello to. So I just want you to know you're causing trouble for being here today, Lucas, just so you know, because my watch is blowing up because my wife is over here, I guess.

[B]

Hey, be nice. Be nice.

[C]

Your mother must be talking to my wife. And it's. It's causing issues in a good way.

[A]

Well, shout out to the. I think you did say his name. The mysterious guest.

[C]

Lucas.

[A]

Lucas. All right, next question is from Ben B. Good morning. I am fairly new to your content. Welcome. And I'm currently in step four of the food.

[C]

All right.

[A]

The transmission began going out in my vehicle last week. Do I pause step four to save for 23, eight?

[B]

Well, you see, what's really, really interesting is if you're in step four, I would not say that you're pausing step four to save up for the 20% for the 23, 8. For those of you that aren't familiar, we have a car buying rule. When it's time to buy a new car, we want you to pay cash if you can. But if you can't, you have to finance 20% down. Don't finance for any more than three years or 36 months. And your payment cannot exceed 8% of your monthly gross income. So you got to come up with that 20% down payment. I would argue if you're in step four already, you just want to keep doing that. You want to keep piling money away in that emergency fund, recognizing that even part of your emergency fund is likely going to be a sinking fund to cover that 20%. Now, it's going to mean that you're probably going to be in step four for a little bit longer than you would have been otherwise. But that's okay. That's what the. It's what it's there for. That's what you want to be able to use your emergency fund for. So I don't think it's a pause. I think it's a continuation of.

[C]

Well, it's not a pause. It's a use. You are saving into step four. So then you can use step four, your cash reserves to put that 20% down. So it's not a pause, it's a use of your cash reserves because your car is about to leave you stranded and you need the car to get you to your job, which is the primary engine that's going to help you build wealth in the beginning of your, your humble start to the journey. So that's why I don't think you're. You're not, you're not separated from the financial order of operations. It's just part of it. That's why I love how these things interconnect, is that you have the nine steps, but then you also have some of these guidelines we give you with 23 8, as well as house purchasing guidelines, because these things all intersect with each other. You just need to know how to use the money and know where the limits are so you don't get yourself in a bad situation. Now, I do want to kind of close it out with. When you use your emergency reserves to put this down payment on the car, you should feel a little scared that you're naked not having as much cash reserves as you should to keep you financially safe. Use that fear to keep you motivated to stay disciplined, to either, you know, there's the two levers. You can make more money or you can spend less money. But let's get the cash reserves boosted up because that is your protection from the desperate decisions. Let's get that built back up as fast as possible.

[B]

I love that people sometimes don't think this is live and what Ben saw. Answer his question. Like, oh, my gosh, this really is live.

[A]

He was like, what they're really answering?

[B]

Yeah, this really is long.

[C]

He said he was new to our stuff, so maybe he thinks that this is all, you know, it's sitting pre recorded in fake land.

[A]

And we really are taking questions live or picking them from the chat as we speak. Thank you for the question, Ben, and good luck on step four and all the potential car buying.

[C]

I'm Arch Manning.

[A]

I'm Madison Skinner.

[C]

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[A]

Tell us your fitness goals this summer. Enter the Red Bull athlete challenge.

[C]

You'll get to try each of our

[A]

workouts for a chance to win an ultimate Red Bull experience.

[B]

Think you have what it takes?

[A]

Okay, next question. And you know, before I get to the next question, we're going to be doing rapid fire in just a little bit, so be sure to get your rapid fire questions into the chat. Just put rf at the beginning of the question, if you want to be a part of that.

[B]

Did y'.

[A]

All.

[B]

Did you do rapid fire last week?

[C]

No, we did Waiting in the wings.

[A]

Yeah, from the wings.

[C]

I will tell you, Bo, because Bo, I like to. Everybody know how smart Bo is.

[B]

Yeah, I like this too.

[C]

I did that. You know, it was just me and Ribi doing the show. And if you go read the comments, we had a great show. Ruby and I crushed it. But there was one question that I just completely whiffed on, I guess, because.

[B]

Oh, the Roth ira.

[C]

Yeah, the Roth ira.

[B]

I saw that.

[C]

So I was, I was sitting there thinking, I was like, this is why Beau and I are such a great team, is because I probably, in reality, I whiff on a lot of them. But Bo just comes. He's like the janitor who comes up behind me, cleans it up, make sure that it's all good. So it's nice to have you back in to sweep up behind me so that. Nothing.

[B]

Brian just dubbed me the janitor of the money Guy show.

[C]

That's the cleanup or cleanup hitter. There you go. You're. You're a baseball guy.

[B]

I've been doing it for 20 years. I'm the janitor.

[A]

It's nice to have you back. It's always, it's an honor to sit at the big desk, but I prefer when we're all here doing our thing all together.

[B]

So.

[A]

All right, get those rapid fire questions in and we're going to move on to Thomas's question. He says we recently purchased annuities that will provide a healthy paycheck in retirement. With that large sum spent, how should we think about our net worth? Now for continuity of tracking.

[B]

Oh, man. This is a hard question to answer, Thomas, because annuities are fairly complicated because we don't know what kind of annuity you bought. Did you buy some sort of deferred fixed annuity? Meaning like, okay, I paid $100,000 into this annuity and at some point in the future, it's going to pay me a fixed return to create that paycheck. Or is this like a variable annuity where we put into annuity product and it's still investing and so the future payouts are going to be dependent upon how the underlying assets perform. It's really, really difficult to give you guidance on exactly how to account for that in your net worth. Because some annuities can be kind of like pensions. Pensions, guaranteed future income stream. And other news can be like present day assets, they fluctuate with the market. Go up and down. And so you don't know what that future income stream is going to be. So you have to, you need to really understand what is the product that you bought and how would you market it or how would you market to market based on today's value? If you were going to clear well,

[C]

but I don't mind speaking to, if it's a fixed, like an immediate annuity, there's now going to provide like a pension to you so you could take the risk off of you and put it on the insurance company that's doing the annuity. I think that if you did that now, I will tell you that's a very small subsection of the marketplace. And in my opinion, my opinion, probably the most appropriate way to use annuities is because if you want to take some of the risk off of you providing in the future because then that frees you up that you can think about legacy, you can think about other things, on how you're using the money because you've essentially purchased your way out now. You no longer own those assets. Now you've created a promise from the insurance company to provide this income stream. So from a net worth standpoint, that money's off your net worth statement. It's more of a footnote.

[B]

Now.

[C]

That's a promise of that you're going to be receiving this type of income flow for many years to come. No different than when your employer has a pension. If there's not like a rollover opportunity, it's only a promise of future payments. Just like Social Security and other things. Those are, those are essentially help you offset your cash flow in retirement. But now it's off of your net worth statement. Now if these are, it says immediate

[B]

payment for both of our entire lives guaranteed.

[C]

So see that, that's what, that's probably the best use of it if you want to take that risk away. Thank God I saved it. Did you see that? I'm like a cat. I'm like a cat landing on my feet. But it's, but it is one of those things. So if it was an immediate purchase for that, now you can start thinking about how you want to use the other resources, both from an investment standpoint, from a legacy standpoint, it really opens up, you know. But realize the catch with that. When he made that decision, when Thomas made a decision, the legacy of the portion that goes in annuity is gone because you were, you wanted to take the risk off of you. But the problem is if you died quickly, that money doesn't get passed on to your relatives and others. But for a lot of people, that's an okay thing. You see this with a lot of assisted living communities. Have you seen what a lot of these assisted living communities are now is you can buy into essentially the house, you don't get to keep it, but now they kind of promise you that they're going to do your health care and all these things as you, as you work through later life decisions. You can buy yourself out of some of those risk if you structure it appropriately.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Great question, Thomas. Thank you for being here.

[C]

And drink this coffee before I knock it over.

[A]

No, that was a good seat saved.

[B]

People are commenting saying that we have an obscene amount of drinks on the table.

[C]

It's always.

[B]

By the way, I think it's the same. I think it's the same number of drinks we always have. Just a lot, huh?

[A]

It is the same number of drinks you always have, but it's collectively.

[C]

And I wrote a comment last time somebody posted that. And I have coffee, water. I don't know what Bo's doing over here.

[B]

He's got coffee, two kinds of water, bourbon. I have my beer. No, it's. I have coffee, I have sparkle, sparkly water, and I have still water.

[C]

So when you go to a restaurant, they go, sir, would you like to have flat or sparkling water? You go both.

[B]

I say tap, because you know what?

[A]

They.

[B]

Why do we have both here then? If you want to know the financial mute when they ask you, sir, would you like sparkling or still? Don't answer that question. It's a trick question. What? That means you're about to pay nine bucks for a bottle of water. What they really asking, sir, do you want tap water? And the answer is, yes, I would like tap water.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

It drives me nuts. Such a. You want to know what cooks my dessert? That right there. I. When I. When I get charged for water, and I don't expect to get charged for water, it. It gets me.

[C]

Yeah. You know, a much younger version of myself. First time I ever went to la, I about got in a fight with a waiter out in the parking lot over. Over this exact equation.

[A]

I believe that.

[C]

No, he followed me out in the parking lot and we had words.

[B]

Are you serious?

[C]

What did. I'm not gonna tell the rest of the story, but it was. It was an intense situation because I just. I. I had wrote. Written a note on the receipt because I felt like he ripped me off with all the bottles of water that he charged us.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

So it was like. And Multiple. Like, not just one.

[C]

Yeah, because, you know, and look, you can't even tell if they're serving you tap water versus. Because they all use these fancy little. You know, in most places, like, look, we go to. We go to Disney all the time, you know, And Florida has horrendous sulfur water.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

But somewhere in the last, I don't know, two years, three years, they filter everything now, because now you can drink Disney water in the restaurants, and it doesn't taste like eggs anymore.

[B]

Really?

[C]

So you can do tap. Well, most restaurants, I think, are filtering their water, so it's okay to do tap water, just like Beau said. But it wasn't always that way, because I will tell you, Florida was the exception for me. I used to buy bottles of water at restaurants because of the sulfur taste, but somehow they. They fixed it. Yeah.

[B]

If they have, like. If they have, like, gross water, I would. I'd get it. But if it's, like, fine tap water for one meal, I'm gonna be okay.

[C]

Florida, the state of Florida. Look, I love Florida, but that is one of the things that. Egg water. It's something.

[A]

Well, that was a great exploration of the types of water I got charged.

[B]

This restaurant. You know the rest. I got charged for the ice cube. I gotta. I got like.

[C]

Oh, yeah, I gotta. I know. I know exactly. All you have to tell me is the ice cube, because I got.

[B]

It was $3.

[C]

Yeah. At that restaurant, which is funny. We'll get back to answering questions. That restaurant, you can order a mixed drink that will still have that big ice cube, and they don't charge you a premium, but if you do, like a bourbon, they hit you not only with the charge for the expensive bourbon, they hit you for the ice cube, too. It's a crazy, you know, stick it to you.

[B]

It's frustrating.

[A]

That's truly crazy.

[C]

It's frustrating. I know exactly what you're talking about now because I've gotten charge for that ice cube, too.

[B]

They hit me on water. They.

[A]

Oh, it is ridiculous, but it is hilarious to hear you talk about it.

[B]

Like, look, I don't. I don't like when they come, hey, would you like bread for the table? Because my answer is always, yes, I'd like some, but, like, I don't always want to pay for bread. You know what I mean? Like, is this like a. Like a Longhorn situation? Or is this like a fancy.

[C]

Can I tell you, there's a great book you might want to read called Die with Zero. We might be at that point that you're You're. You're fitting into miser territory. Versus is mutant territory.

[A]

Wise words. Fine line between miser and mutant. So maybe you need to consider.

[C]

I mean, when we start hearing rich guys talking about how they don't want to do something, they might need a book called D with zero.

[B]

Look, I don't.

[A]

Memories made.

[B]

I don't mind spending money. I just like to know that I'm spending it.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Like, we. We went.

[A]

We went down.

[B]

We were just down to the beach and it was awesome. My kids, we got all the good stuff and. And it was fine. But I knew what I was doing when I. When I. When it's done. When it's done. When it's done to me instead of me doing it. I don't like that. And that's why. That's why we partner with Monarch. I'm just kidding. That's not happening. Right.

[A]

We do partner with Monarch, though. Great app.

[B]

Okay, I have like a. On my Sankey diagram, I can see like the ice cube. I see all the ice cubes on there.

[A]

There's a specific category just for ice cubes. All right, next question before rapid fire is from Casey. He says, hey, money guys, my husband and I are planning to start a family in the near future.

[C]

Congratulations.

[A]

As parents yourselves, how can we anticipate and plan for this to affect our budget?

[C]

You know, look, I'll say this part because I'm like the grandpa here that, you know, I'm out of the child rearing ages and. Or having children ages. So now I'm in that sentimental phase. I just want you to know we also had a lunch yesterday. Bo, you weren't that lunch, but we. One of our key team members. Any day now. His wife is having a baby.

[B]

Oh, yeah? Yeah.

[C]

And we were talking about how that first week is when you come home from the hospital and stuff. And if I could bring it back to the financial side. Kids do have a cost. Don't mishear us. Kids do have a cost. Especially when you talk about daycare. I want you to know that's the biggest thing is start thinking about how you're going to. If you're going back to work or if somebody's staying at home. That's the biggest part. But all the other components of it with the diapers, the food and that type of. It's. It's not as big as everybody would have you think. So figure out the child care side of it if you're going back to work. But once you get that part figured Out. I want you to have, be fruitful because I, as a, as a guy who's in his 50s, I wish we'd had more kids. You know, nobody tells you that. Part of it is as you're get to an age and say, man, it's kind of sad once you're off of that child rearing. It's hard in the beginning, but there is something about the love that you have for your children that's just. It's hard to explain it.

[B]

I'll tell you what I did, and I think this is helpful for young folks having, if you can. Meaning if you structured life in such a way that you have a pretty decent savings rate early on, meaning you caught the bug of financial mutant dumb and you're, you know, you're saving 15, 20, 25% of your gross income before you have kids. What you've already naturally done is built in some really good margin. And so the way that I would mentally, mentally prepare for the financial impact of kids is I agree, outside of like maybe losing an income if one of you stays there having to pay for like daycare, realistically, the costs are not unbelievably burdensome, but what you might have to do, and I see a lot of parents do this. I think my wife and I may have even done this with our first kid. You may have to back down your savings rate a little bit. You may have been so good at saving 25% or you were at 23.2%, you were almost at 25. But that kid comes along and now all of a sudden, oh, man, I need to go buy life insurance. I need to make sure I have disability insurance. I need to make sure I have this covered and that covered and diapers and bottles and all these things. Maybe your savings rate drops down to where you're saving 17%, 18%, that's okay. That's going to be something that you will get back on the path. It's okay if you take a step back. It doesn't have to be just a solid straight walk up the mountain, one step at a time. I think a lot of parents are so hard on themselves, but they say, oh, I can't, I can't back down. My savior. I can't do this. I can't live life. I can't actually enjoy the moment that I'm in. And I just don't think that's the case. And I think a lot of people say, you know what? Well, I can't do that yet, so I'm going to wait I'm going to wait to have kids. Wait to have kids. Wait to have kids. Wait to have kids. And you have to make that decision for yourself. I do not think that having kids and starting a family is a financial decision. I think that obviously the finances play into it, but it should be a life decision that you're making and you figure out how to make the finances work around that.

[C]

We just heard from the wings that Casey has shared that she'll be staying at home with the kids. So obviously take into account how that impacts and then embrace. I mean, I will tell you some of my favorite memories. This is part of the blossoming of memories is those struggles is if you will embrace it as part of the adventure of this. You know, it can be fruitful in the future but just kind of go into it. Know that hey, yeah, we're gonna have to. Maybe we don't get to do everything that we did, but in the long term this is going to be better, you know, because that's the thing is because Casey's probably trying to figure out is it? I would go ahead. By the way, we always say when you make huge life decisions, put on your 3D glasses, go ahead and model out what the next three years of your life is going to look like and put it in three different scenarios. You got the dream of man, oh man, things are awesome. The down to earth plan. And don't leave out the old doo doo doo dookie plan.

[B]

With newborns. You're going to know about the doo doo plan.

[C]

The dookie plan for sure. With newborns. You need to take that into account from a financial standpoint so that you have all scenarios covered.

[B]

Love that.

[A]

That got way too good of a laugh from the content team.

[C]

I don't know if it was a pity laugh. I mean, let's face it, no matter what age you are, a good poop or you know that type of jokes, they, they never miss.

[A]

With that. It's time for our It Does Not Depend rapid fire segment where Brian and Beau have a combined 30 seconds to answer your questions and they cannot say the word or words or phrase it depends on. Now at the end of the rapid fire segment, if there are some things that need to be said, we will revisit those at the end in our maybe It Does Depend segment. With that, let's get 30 seconds on the clock and let's dive into question number one.

[B]

You go first or me go first?

[C]

You can go first since you're fresh from vacation.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

No rest for the Weary Here we go. Is it okay to put all or part of your emergency fund in a CD ladder?

[B]

You can put your emergency fund in CD ladder, but you need to have access to capital like today. Like if an emergency happens today, you don't have to wait for that ladder four months, five months, six months to mature. It's okay if you have some portion of it in CDs, but you need readily available cash today.

[C]

I'd want to know more information on how much are you putting in CDs because there's a lot of chance your high yield savings accounts and other things are going to be very competitive and unless you locked in some CD years ago, there's just a better way to do it.

[A]

Nicely done.

[B]

I hold zero CDs right now.

[C]

I don't mind disclosing that I don't have any CDs either.

[A]

That was over 30 seconds, but I'll allow it. Next Question she sits in the big table one time Gift Giving when it comes to gift giving, do you get an item, a gift card or cash?

[C]

I mean the ideal is item first. I like cash over gift cards second. But I'm all about can you have a thoughtful idea. But I will tell you, probably more often than not I give cash.

[B]

Cash will be what I'd like to receive the most. Oftentimes I find myself giving gift cards, which is so dumb. Why would I do something that I don't want to get back? But a gift is probably the best thing. But man, it's really hard to do that. It's especially around the holidays.

[A]

Question number three Are there reasons to see a financial advisor? If you've accumulated a million but have several years left in the accumulation phase,

[B]

we say that there are generally three times when it makes sense to reach out to an advisor. 1. The gravity of your decisions is bigger than you feel comfortable navigating alone. 2. The complexity of life has gotten to the point where you don't know what you don't know. Or three you recognize that stuff in your financial life is falling on the back burner. You don't have enough time to put the effort to it you need to.

[C]

More than likely this is the first time you've ever had a million dollars. You just don't know what you don't know. Having somebody who's done this thousands of times is probably going to be a more efficient and better use to have

[B]

that CFO professionally help you moneyguy.com become a client. Check it out. We'd love to talk with you.

[A]

I'll Allow that too important.

[C]

I thought we were about to go micro machines there. I mean the way you were speeding up the way you talk, you really

[A]

did nail that until you actually told them how to become a client.

[B]

Well, part's important.

[A]

I know I probably would have said

[B]

it if you didn't have a million dollars. You know how unique it is in this world to have a million dollars.

[A]

It's a big accomplishment.

[B]

People are like poo poo. No, a million dollars in that much, a million dollars is still a lot of money. If you at the 2 comma club, that is worth celebrating. If you're not out there in our discord celebrating milestones. When you hit that stuff you should be because it's, it's awesome and it is, it is worth celebrating.

[A]

Back to rapid fire. Does the money guy 3 to 5% down rule for first time homebuyers apply to someone who's 50?

[C]

Have you ever owned a home? I mean this is easy because I give you this, we give you this rule for your first home. Now if this is an upgrade, I want you doing the traditional join because hopefully you'll have the equity from your first transaction.

[B]

I think that you can still use 3525. However, if you're 50, one of the things I want you to think about as you're aging is you also to be thinking about delevering. So if I'm 50 buying my first house, that sounds about for a 30 year mortgage I might want to figure out okay, is there a way to be in a 15 or something else to get that timeline down?

[A]

That was close. Maybe we'll come back to it. Next question. Do you have many expat clients for abound wealth?

[C]

We have some mini's a word but yeah, I mean we have, we have expat clients.

[B]

We have clients who choose in their financial independence post work, post life to go live, live in another country, live somewhere else.

[C]

Yes, well, we also have clients who are still in the active growing size that go live in Europe and other places too for a period of time. We have to help them with the tax side of that as well.

[A]

So yes, they can help with that. Next question. Hey guys, I have a friend. It's me. I'm the friend who has a bit of a spending problem that really is a discipline problem. What tips do you typically give your clients who have the same struggle?

[B]

I do think using some sort of budgeting or tracking app can help because then you can't ignore it if you make yourself every single morning pull up the app. Look at the transactions, make sure they're coded. You will start to see and before you go, swipe right. Man, I'm going to have to look at this tomorrow morning. It will likely change your behavior.

[C]

Automate as much of your life as possible. Meaning that you, you actually make the good habits that much easier by doing your 401k, your Roth IRA RA and then every time you get a pay raise that's 60% of that go towards your savings. Only 40% lifestyle.

[A]

Love it. And if you want that tracking app, use code moneyguy on monarch.com because you can get a big 50 off discount if you want.

[C]

There it is.

[B]

I wasn't even gonna say it. I wasn't even gonna say it.

[C]

We should not be scared to actually use to share the tool that we actually use.

[B]

Personally, I'm not scared. It is.

[A]

No, I'm just saying if you want to take your advice, you, you can get it way cheaper if you use the code money guy.

[B]

So why not this my wife really is love. Like she loves being able to see it. Now she's never had like a mechanism where she could see and she kind of just. You know what I mean? It's just, it's helpful for her to have that a good communication tool.

[A]

All right, last but not least, throw pillows or curtains. Which one to buy first? Thank you.

[C]

The easy answer is throw pillows because I know how much drapes cost.

[B]

I'm ashamed at how late in my life it took me to buy blackout curtains in my bedroom. Do that tomorrow. Do that. Make that step one of the financial. I'm just kidding. It's not. But blackout curtains so you can sleep better. Game changer for me and for all my kids. I don't know why we didn't do it for our younger kids. For. For my baby boy. Blackout curtains. Game changer.

[C]

Just go to bed earlier.

[B]

No, it's for the morning.

[C]

It's because I like waking up when the sun comes up.

[B]

Yeah, I don't want my son waking up when the sun comes up on that sucker to sleep. Yeah, it was wild. As soon as, as soon as the light came in, my kids. That was one of the. You know, my kids at the beach. At the beach. Like 6, 6am Waker uppers. Right. Because there was no. Because there was no. Because it was sunlight coming through. Not at home.

[A]

Heard it here first. That concludes our now I can ask my question rapid fire segment. Yes, what's your question?

[C]

So what time while you're on this beach vacation, what time we all going to bed. If the kids are waking up at 6 every morning.

[B]

I mean, we were probably going to bed around 9:39 and with party animals. This is the first time we've ever done this. And look, I'm not even ashamed to admit it. I'm at this age now. We just kind of all went to bed at the same time. Like, as soon as we put the kids down, we kind of just went to bed. That's kind of the way it. That's the way that it went. And it worked out great.

[A]

There you go. Practically speaking, I do think if you have to choose one, you got to buy curtains, right?

[B]

Throw pillows are useless. There's no utility in them at all. Like, I don't. I don't know. I don't know why you would spend your money on those.

[A]

Utility. I think.

[B]

No, there's no you other than, like, looking at them.

[C]

Okay, let me ask you this.

[B]

Curtains have a utility.

[C]

I know.

[A]

At home.

[C]

Hang on, I'm gonna do the math. Now. I'm not talking about sleeping pillows, and I'm not even talking about. I'm not counting shams. You know, the. The pillows that are just sit on the boot light.

[B]

Sleeping pillows you're not supposed to sleep on?

[C]

Yeah, those. We won't even count those. How many pillows do you have on your master bed if you don't count even the shams?

[B]

Okay, not counting those. Three.

[C]

I have eight. My wife is. We have eight pillows.

[B]

How many total pillows do you have?

[A]

That's not counting the shame.

[C]

That's not even counting the shams.

[A]

So you have 10.

[B]

I've got seven total.

[C]

Because I think about now the bed looks beautiful, but we have three of these pillows that are one color. And then we have two little bit smaller pillows in front of those three. And then we have like two more, and then we have one. It's like a pyramid of pillows.

[B]

I just. Here's what I understand.

[C]

It's glorious. It looks beautiful. And then we have a bench at the end of the bed, and there's one on each of those too. And I didn't count those.

[B]

So, you know, we did this. We did this back, right? We got this, like, back. Back porch area or whatever. Well, my wife bought these pillows, and they look like Tootsie Rolls. Not like they're. But they're like stripes. They're like these little, like, rolled pillows that they just sit in the chair until you need to sit down, then you gotta throw them on the ground. And I'm like, what? What? All these pillows do is to get in the way. There's not serving any purpose other than just taking up room in the seat. We got one on every single one of our chairs outside it.

[C]

That's a great way of putting a Tootsie Roll pillows because I knew exactly what you're talking about and they serve zero purpose.

[B]

And they. I bet they were invented that.

[C]

How did they convince that must be a heck of a marketing campaign.

[B]

My wife bought them from this designer that she buys all her stuff from. They had a like if you had a Netflix special I should not be buying your throw pillows. But that's who she bought them from. So they're pretty.

[C]

They're pretty marketing.

[B]

They're pretty but they don't. All I do is well, I want to sit in that chair. But there's a pillow there. Guess I'll move.

[A]

You guys are funny.

[C]

And if you throw it down back. Do you know much that pillow cost?

[A]

I know.

[B]

Then it's. I don't get it dirty. What am I supposed to do? Must put it in my lap. I don't now this pillow is causing me problems.

[C]

I think you're just not supposed to sit on any chairs outside.

[B]

That might be it. That might be it.

[A]

See at my house if something's going to go outside I'm assuming it's getting dirty.

[B]

That makes a lot.

[C]

You also have two boys item.

[A]

Right.

[C]

You probably just assume everything.

[A]

Just this is just what this is all going to be. It's fine. Okay. Did you have anything else to say about that first time home buyer question or do you feel like you got

[B]

it all 50 year old? You know I would really want them to think about maybe a 15 year mortgage. Maybe figure out how to do some sort of extra principal. I just the idea of having a mortgage from age 50 to age 80.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

If you're gonna like leave the workforce around 60, 65, something like that. I just. I'd want to know is there a way to potentially de risk that a little bit?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But it's also you don't you have to be careful. That's such a hard spot that I actually that's where it's hard to give rule of thumb math on because you actually need to get into the numbers is because I have had clients who've come in because I don't know if I would tell you in certain high cost of living areas that you ought to go if you have a 401k or you have savings of a million dollars going and paying for all of that house with that so you're debt free as you, you know, is a scary thing. That's why it's really. You have to do the math on it to kind of assess the risk, to figure out how do you navigate this and what's the interest rates and what is your situation look like?

[A]

Our guidance are very widely applicable, but it is true. Get to retirement. It just gets too personal, like too nuanced.

[C]

Well, I mean, the ideal is you're debt free, I mean, because you're not truly financially independent until you have zero obligations behind you. And so. But for some people, the reality is that you will have a mortgage in retirement. But I want to really measure twice, cut once before I'm willing to say, yeah, this is the best course of action for you.

[A]

Totally. All right, let's do one more question before we close it out. This one's from Kyle.

[B]

Did we only have one? Did we answer every rapid fire? So well,

[A]

keep track of what I think.

[C]

I mean, some of them were questions like, it was almost like boxers or briefs. I mean, because they were like you. Do you throw pillows or, or curtains? I mean, these are. These are not exactly thought provoking. Crazy. Crazy.

[B]

Hilarious.

[A]

All right, next questions from Kyle. It says, thoughts on paying off a 5.625% mortgage by 35, assuming all retirement accounts are fully funded and hitting milestones. I want to hit coastfi or fine to have more time with family. We are 30 and 28.

[B]

This one. This pains me a little bit. Right, so what are our thoughts? Our thoughts are if you're saving 25% of your gross income for the future, if you were doing that, you get to choose what you do with the money above and beyond that. So if you're saving 25%, you're funding all your retirement accounts and doing that sort of stuff, and you decide that one of your financial goals, because money is nothing more than a tool that allows us to accomplish our goals, is to be debt free by 35, then it's your prerogative. You can do that. Now what I'd want to do is I'd want to walk through some mathematics with you and say, man, Kyle, not having a mortgage at 35 is super cool. You know, it's only slightly cooler having the ability to just write a check to pay off that mortgage. Because at your age at 30 and 28, 5.625 on a primary residence home loan, it's just not that crazy. And I'm going to argue that your dollars could work a lot harder for you elsewhere and could even Potentially have you be debt free sooner if you were to implement a different strategy. But once you save 25%, you get to pick and choose.

[C]

Kyle, when you can make this decision, you are at step eight because you've done it all. You know, you've loaded up the retirement accounts. You even your question you kind of set up. I'm assuming if you've thought about how you're actually going to use this money when you retire, you're talking about Coast Fire. It's going to probably require a savings rate that's higher than 25%. But I'm going to give you credit if you've done the math and you know that hey yeah, with what we've saved up and what our current savings rate, we're going to be a. Okay. And we still have extra resources that we want to be debt free free, then that's step eight and you can I give you permission as long as you've done the math on that. Your Coast Fire situation really is that frothy that you can go ahead and prepay a mortgage at 30 years of age, then I think it's okay. You've earned that right. Once you get to step eight, just make sure you've measured twice, cut once on those big decisions because that's what step seven is. So when you're thinking about how you actually go use this money now realize Bo is the extreme because he's forever. He didn't want me paying off my mortgage.

[B]

Well, just because I'm good with math.

[C]

I mean because. Yeah, because my interest rate was. Was so low now it wasn't a 5.6625 which is is a probably about where mortgage rates are right now. I had a 2 and a half percent mortgage rate which did pain me too. But I'd gotten down to where it was like 60 grand. I mean I think we were talking about a few hundred bucks a year. It just didn't make sense anymore to keep it. But it's one of those things where I understand the desire to be debt free. Just make sure you've done the math on the front end that the opportunity cost is not. It feels good emotionally, but it hurts you from a financial standpoint.

[A]

Love it. Never forget, we've talked about a lot of things on the show. Whether it was our rules for buying a house, guidance on buying a car, how to become a client, when to become a client. All of that lives on moneyguy.com anytime you need it. Even though we turn the cameras off, you can go to moneyguy.com resources to take advantage of all of our free calculators and downloads and learn more about all of the things that we talked about on the show. So be sure to check out moneyguy.com and thanks for joining us today, guys.

[C]

I just like having the team back together. I mean, it was really fun. I mean, it was one of those whenever I hope when I go on, because I go on vacation more than anybody, I reserve that right. As the older guy, I hope that when I'm not here, y' all like, man, just, you know, it was a shame that Brian wasn't here today. Definitely not when I, when you guys, I like us all being together because it just. The lift is easier. It's more fun. We just have a blast doing this and I hope that that comes through is that we really do love creating content for you guys so you can live your best life financially and also your feedback. You know, you guys let us know when content hits and when it changes your life. And that is the fuel. You know, we, we did a collab with Aaron Talks Money, and it was on Able accounts and Aaron was able to reach out to us in the last few days and share with us some feedback she's gotten from some specific audience members. Guys, that stuff means the world to us. So we appreciate y' all going on this journey with us. We really do believe there's a better way to do money. And that's why I love that we got to share the Good of Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey. We also get to share the Good of Die With Zero by Bill Perkins. But man, oh, man, do we think that we've created something that can help you and your financial journey with both the Financial Order of Operations and Millionaire Mission. I'm your host, Brian, joined by Mr. Bo Reby and the rest of the content team. Money Guy out.

[A]

The Money Guy show is hosted by Brian Preston and Bo Hansen. Brian and Beau are partners with Abound Wealth Management. Abound Wealth Management is a registered investment advisory firm regulated by the securities and Exchange Commission. In accordance and compliance with the securities laws and regulations, Abound Wealth Management does not render or offer to render personalized investment or tax advice through the Money Guy Show. The information provided is for informational purposes only, may not be suitable for all investors, and does not constitute financial, tax, investment or legal advice. All investments involve a degree of risk, including the risk of loss.