From Broke in Their 30s to Millionaires in Their 50s | Making a Millionaire

Summary

Podcast Summary: Money Guy Show

Episode: From Broke in Their 30s to Millionaires in Their 50s | Making a Millionaire
Hosts: Brian Preston & Bo Hanson
Guests: Jason & Candy
Date: April 27, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this inspiring episode, Brian Preston and Bo Hanson interview Jason and Candy, a couple who transformed their financial fortunes—going from a negative net worth of $250,000 in their early 30s to a $4.2 million net worth in their mid-50s. The conversation centers on their journey, the pivotal decisions around debt elimination and real estate investing, lessons learned, portfolio simplification for retirement, and important lifestyle and mental health reflections. The episode provides actionable insights for listeners aiming to achieve wealth later in life, even if they start late or face significant obstacles.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Starting from Deep in Debt

[00:57, 07:26, 08:33]

• Jason and Candy both had over $100,000 in student loans each, along with other debts, tallying to a -$250,000 net worth when they met at age 31.
• They spent their 30s digging out of debt and their 40s building wealth, primarily through real estate investment.

Quote:

"From negative 250 in your early 30s to now $4.2 million at 54. That’s insane."
— Brian Preston [01:11]

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2. The Role of Real Estate in Wealth Building

[03:44 – 09:35]

• Early moves included buying and living in homes, fixing them up, and selling for profit.
• Their first major investment was a short-term rental in Savannah, GA. This was partially luck—realizing the market potential only afterward—but also due to proactive learning.
• They consistently put down 20% (sometimes more) to avoid PMI and keep good equity.

Quote:

"We started just with what we could do—first home was FHA. Sold it, made money, then put 20% down on the next... ever since then I’ve done that. I like to have an equity position."
— Jason [10:19]

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3. Self-Education and Research

[02:32, 12:20, 12:55, 13:35]

• Jason and Candy didn’t come from wealthy or financially savvy backgrounds.
• They credits podcasts, YouTube, conferences, and books for the bulk of their financial knowledge.

Quote:

"We didn’t have a whole lot of financial education from our parents... watching TV and podcasts really served us well."
— Candy [12:20]

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4. Using Self-Directed IRAs for Real Estate

[11:22, 15:33, 17:58, 19:57]

• Jason used self-directed IRAs to invest rollover 401k funds in real estate, describing this as challenging, non-liquid, and “not for the faint of heart.”
• They navigated non-recourse loans, strict compliance, and UBIT tax rules with careful research (and some stress).
• Ultimately, they concluded that direct, after-tax real estate investing was easier and more tax-advantaged.

Quote:

"It is not for the faint of heart. There’s a lot of details—you can get tripped up very easily and then the tax implications..."
— Jason [19:12]

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5. Lessons Learned from Real Estate Investing

[15:03, 16:12, 27:44, 28:25]

• The couple’s first self-directed IRA property in Gatlinburg was sold after two years; they just made a small profit and learned to "buy bigger if you can." Missed opportunity hindsight stings more than the joy of a win.
• They shared candid anecdotes about the challenges of both short-term and long-term rentals—tenant damage, maintenance headaches, and the importance of property management (and family support).
• Real estate’s volatility is different but comparable to market volatility; both have tradeoffs.

Quote:

"The missed opportunities hurt more so than the wins are exciting. But the missed opportunities will stay with you."
— Jason [15:04]

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6. Simplifying for Retirement

[23:21, 23:58, 24:03, 25:23]

• Jason’s current goal: dramatically simplify the real estate portfolio, keeping only five easy-to-manage townhouses in Gainesville, GA, and a single property in northern Michigan.
• Working toward being debt-free on these properties, aiming for $5,000/month cash flow from the five townhouses alone.

Quote:

"For me, it’s simplification... As I transition to retirement, I want things to be simple. I still love real estate... just a very small portfolio."
— Jason [23:27]

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7. Balancing Short-term vs. Long-term Rentals

[26:44, 27:44]

• Explored the pitfalls of short-term Airbnb/VRBO properties: more maintenance, damage, frequent replacement of furniture/items, and much less emotional satisfaction—even when managed by professionals.

Quote:

"You can’t have nice stuff in these places... That’s how I handle our short term rentals. You can’t do that."
— Candy [27:14]

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8. Lifestyle Aspirations: "Quarterly Living"

[30:34, 31:38]

• Candy envisions a lifestyle of living in various places around the world for three months at a time (“quarterly living”)—Vietnam, Paris, Mexico, etc.
• Budget planning currently assumes wanting up to $10k/month, but they're flexible—letting the budget dictate the destination and duration.

Quote:

"I want to live in Vietnam for three months. I want to live in Paris for three months. I want to live in Mexico for three months..."
— Candy [30:54]

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9. Transition Mechanics & Income Planning

[34:24, 34:58, 35:54]

• Retirement plan: Candy goes part-time, working virtually for health benefits; Jason stops W2 and manages the remaining rentals.
• Expect $5k/month from townhouses, possible $3k/month (after debt) from Michigan property, and withdrawals from investments.
• They will sell surplus real estate to consolidate, pay off all debt, and invest the proceeds ($1.1M+), primarily into liquid diversified portfolios.

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10. Mental Health & Stress Management

[44:05, 44:33]

• Both hosts and guests stress the importance of building “margin” for mental and physical well-being as you age—simplification and planning are vital.
• The guests appreciate Gen Z’s focus on mental health; their own experience with real estate overload motivated the move toward a simpler, happier life.

Quote:

"There is something about when you get older, you don’t want to have to carry so much because the stress manifests itself..."
— Bo Hanson [45:31]

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11. Projected Financial Outcomes – Taking Action

[51:48, 54:55, 55:18, 56:37]

• After selling non-core properties (netting ~$1.7M), paying off all debt, and investing remaining proceeds, they’ll have ~$2.1M liquid and $1.7M in real estate.
• Conservative annual income estimate (post-liquidation and consolidation): $8,000/month from rentals + 4% withdrawal (~$180k/year).
• If they delay full retirement for 1-5 years, the portfolio could grow to $2.9M, providing ~$200k/year retirement income—with Social Security and further rental appreciation excluded from current models.

Quote:

"You’re going to have multiple streams... going to be the best of all things and give them their best version of retirement."
— Bo Hanson [57:48]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "The Lord takes care of fools and babies." — Candy [22:51]
• "If we wouldn’t live in it, we wouldn’t have someone else live in it." — Jason [40:54]
• "Sometimes he (Bo) even says there’s something that happened, do you want to know or do you want to just write a check? I was like, I’ll just write the check. Don’t tell me." — Brian Preston [40:26]
• "We make a really good team." — Jason [41:13]
• "You have to start building margin into your life." — Bo Hanson [45:57]
• "You don’t have to maximize every dollar now." — Candy [46:09]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Debt Origins & Meeting: [00:57, 07:26]
• First Breakthrough in Real Estate: [03:44, 04:06]
• Learning from Free Media & Conferences: [12:20, 12:55]
• Navigating Self-Directed IRA Real Estate: [11:22, 17:58, 19:57]
• Short-term vs. Long-term Rentals: [26:44, 27:44]
• Retirement Vision & Quarterly Living: [30:34, 31:38]
• Portfolio Simplification Plans: [23:21, 24:03, 35:54]
• Projected Financial Results: [51:48, 54:55]
• Mental health & Margin: [44:05, 45:31]

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Tone and Takeaways

Jason and Candy’s story is approachable and honest—equal parts candid reflection, actionable advice, and encouragement for late starters. Brian and Bo’s guidance is clear and humble, focusing on the importance of simplicity, mental health, and enjoying wealth rather than endless accumulation. The episode is motivational for listeners who may feel “behind” financially and is filled with real estate cautionary tales, practical portfolio insights, and reminders that true wealth is about freedom and fulfillment, not just dollar figures.

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Actionable Steps for Listeners:

• Don’t be discouraged by a late or rocky start—it’s possible to become a millionaire in midlife with discipline and learning.
• Be deliberate in real estate; luck helps, but research and conservative leverage are key.
• Consider the risks and paperwork of self-directed IRAs carefully.
• Simplify holdings as you approach retirement, and plan for mental/physical well-being alongside financial goals.
• Projected income should factor in cash flow, investment returns, and personal lifestyle “guardrails”—customize, don’t copy.
• Seek clarity on your vision: plan where and how you want to spend your time and money before you retire.

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Hosts’ Concluding Thought:

“You don’t have to maximize every dollar now... live your best life.”
— Bo Hanson [46:09]

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Transcript

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[Jason]

31 years old, we started dating and I think you had over 100,000 in student loans. I had over 100,000 in student Loans. I had a car loan, credit cards. We probably had about $250,000 of negative net worth.

[Brian Preston]

From negative 250 in your early 30s to now $4.2 million at 54. That's insane. I think there's a lot of people out there that are going to hear that they're not buying their first home until the 30s. They're not taking finances seriously. They're not even getting out of the starting gates. And here you guys are, a success story of folks who were actually able to do it. Who are you guys? What do you have going on? Why are we sitting down here chatting today?

[Candy]

I think we want to retire within, you know, before we 90, maybe within the next five, six, 10 years, something like that. And so just how can we get there? What position are we in to get there as quickly as possible within five years? I mean, we've been toying with real estate probably since we first got married, you know, 21 years ago. You know, we've been pretty lucky. You know, you start out and you don't know what you're doing, and then you, you know, you buy your first property and you buy a second property and learn a little, you know, a couple of things and watch some YouTube people or some podcasts and you learn some stuff. And I'm very thankful that we've learned a lot of stuff from just watching TV and, you know, doing some research on our own. So we've learned a lot and we've gotten really not Just lucky. But I think we purposely put some things into place that made us be smarter investors. And we got lucky. We've been lucky. It's just. There's no two ways about it.

[Brian Preston]

Did you lucky, like, were you buying real estate in Detroit and you got lucky at the time you bought like. What do you mean you got lucky? You just found the right properties.

[Candy]

We found the right property. So we, when we lived in Kansas and the townhouse that we lived in, our neighbors there were some college kids and their son, their father bought them the townhouse and then they graduate and of course he keeps it. And we're like, that was smart. That was smart. We should do something like that. So we moved to Georgia soon after that.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Which part of Georgia?

[Candy]

Atlanta.

[Jason]

Northeast Atlanta. Okay.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

And everybody says Atlanta though. Which city?

[Jason]

We're actually from Atlanta.

[Brian Preston]

So, you know, we're talking about.

[Candy]

So north, 45 minutes north of Atlanta.

[Jason]

Yeah, yeah. Or some people say South Carolina.

[Candy]

So we moved to Razleton and he was going to a lot of conferences in Savannah a lot. So we go to Savannah and we're like, oh, this is lovely. We should try to buy something. We didn't have any money, but we were going to try to buy something. Had no idea that it was a popular tourist place for, you know, vacation, all that good stuff. We find a property, we buy it. The owners at the time, they didn't have a short term rental certificate. Am I correct about that?

[Jason]

That's right.

[Candy]

So we kind of worked that into the deal, like if you will get the certificate, you know. So we kind of worked that into the deal. Long story short, that was. That was luck because we had no idea that it was the market that it was. And it's been a really, really good introduction to.

[Brian Preston]

So is Savannah's first, first property you bought?

[Jason]

One of the very first ones?

[Candy]

Yeah, we have done short term rental.

[Jason]

Yeah, we had done a couple of like, live in, fix up and then sell and make money. So we had done that the first, you know, on the first couple of homes. And then I would say Savannah was probably the first real, like legitimate investment.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Who told you all to get the short term certificate was that you're like, you had a really good real estate agent or did you all just kind of know that that was kind of what we knew?

[Candy]

Yeah, it's kind of what we knew at the time. But our real estate agent was like, well, you know, because. Because it's in the historic district. It's very prime property. And it's like, you probably want to we're like, you're right.

[Jason]

Yeah. In the right direction, where to buy. And that was fantastic.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

And it's usually easier to get the existing person who's got the legacy connections versus.

[Jason]

That's correct.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

You coming in?

[Jason]

And we slid in right as they started to put short term rental restrictions in. It would have made it much more difficult or maybe impossible because they limit it to a certain number per block or whatever.

[Brian Preston]

For sure. So what do you guys do professionally? Are you in real estate? Professionally. What are your vocations?

[Candy]

My daytime job. I'm a speech pathologist.

[Brian Preston]

And that's what you want to retire from?

[Candy]

Yeah. You know what? Now this is weird. I'm one of the few people, I really like my job, I work virtually. So if I can do this until I'm 100 years old, I promise to goodness I'd do it.

[Brian Preston]

Okay.

[Candy]

Seriously.

[Brian Preston]

Okay.

[Candy]

Now, I want to probably go down part time when we. Because we want to travel and I'm itching to get to Vietnam and Paris. So, you know, we want to travel, but I'm 100% fine with working till I die.

[Brian Preston]

Okay. So retirement for you will like a pseudo retirement, backing down hours.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

You just want to have confirmation that you're working because you want to work.

[Candy]

That's it.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Right. Now you. That's kind of in the air, right?

[Candy]

That's exactly it.

[Brian Preston]

Jason, what about you?

[Jason]

And I do work at a real estate firm, but for them, I oversee their senior living portfolio. So we do anything from, you know, acquisition developments, and then lease up and then ongoing operations. And so I oversee everything that is age restricted for our company. And so. And that's what I've done for the last 20 plus years.

[Brian Preston]

So when we think about this five year timeline to retirement, are you also going to back down or are you like. No, no, I'm going to stop working and not do that anymore.

[Jason]

More. Yeah, no, I think I'm just gonna switch completely. Okay. Unlike, you know, I, I think I would like to try and do nothing. Everyone says that'll be impossible for me to do. I'm like, let me give it a shot. Yeah, I'll like to try that.

[Brian Preston]

So if nothing doesn't work out, what would you then do? Well, you said switch.

[Jason]

I love real estate and I, I.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Right.

[Jason]

So I think we want to keep a small portfolio. So right now we've got a portfolio of real estate and I think we want to pare that down. Got it. And just keep a few select properties that'll be easy to manage, close in proximity to One another, provide some cash flow in retirement, etc. So that's. And I just look to manage those.

[Brian Preston]

Awesome. Well, you guys were so kind. You shared a net worth statement with me and with us. And it looks fantastic. Like, as you guys sit here right now, total net worth is right at about $4.2 million.

[Candy]

Whose sheet is that?

[Brian Preston]

Right.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Which is wild because y' all. In the notes I had read zero. I mean, y' all might even had some debt that was out there, so it might have even been below zero. Right. Where was the starting point?

[Jason]

Oh, oh, the starting point was quite negative.

[Candy]

Oh, definitely.

[Jason]

When we met our first date, I was, I. That was my birthday. I was 31. I remember that. That's a good marker. 31 years old, we started dating and I think you had over a hundred thousand of student loans. I had over 100,000 in student loans.

[Brian Preston]

And this is in your early 30s,

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

not like 31 years old.

[Jason]

I had a car loan, credit cards. Yeah, we probably had about $250,000 of negative net worth.

[Candy]

Yeah.

[Brian Preston]

Holy cow.

[Jason]

When we, when we met.

[Brian Preston]

And how, how old are you guys now?

[Jason]

54.

[Brian Preston]

54. So obviously I wasn't going to ask you. Of course I wasn't going to ask you. We don't know how old Candy.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Candy gets an exemption

[Brian Preston]

is to go from negative 250.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

She. 31.

[Jason]

That's right.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

That's it.

[Brian Preston]

From negative 250 in your early 30s to now $4.2 million at 54. That's insane. Like, that's a.

[Candy]

It is.

[Brian Preston]

I think there's a lot of people out there that are going to hear that because a lot of folks, they're not buying their first home until the 30s. They're not taking finances here. They're not even getting out of the starting gates. And here you guys are a success story of folks who were actually able to do it.

[Jason]

We spent our entire 30s getting out of that $250,000 worth of debt and then 40s building, you know, what we've. What we've built thus far. So, yeah, kind of a little.

[Candy]

I have to give him all the credit because he. I'm a planner, you know, I like to plan out things and know what I'm doing in life. Financial stuff, you know, I'll do it because I have to. He thinks it's fun, you know, he's like, oh, my God, conversions. Yes. I have no interest in that. But thankfully he finds it fun and was able to kind of put a plan for us together to kind of get out of debt? Cause I, I don't think I would have done it by myself.

[Brian Preston]

Well, as you sit here right now, you guys have cash and equivalents of about 338,000. Your liquid investments are just a touch under a million bucks at about 970,000. But then you do have a big chunk of real estate assets between your primary residence and then the real estate that you've invested in. Almost five and a half million dollars of real estate. So it certainly seems like real estate has been the main avenue through which you guys have built wealth. Is that an accurate assessment on our end?

[Jason]

Definitely, Yeah, I think that that's accurate. I think our growing incomes helped us to eliminate the debt, get out of debt, and then save up for down payments, which started our real estate journey. So, you know, our W2 incomes helped us to kind of get started. Sure.

[Brian Preston]

And when you guys started investing in real estate, I just think it'd be helpful for the audience to hear, were you guys putting 20% down? 25. Like how do you guys approach? Because you have a, again, you have a $5 million real estate portfolio.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

I think we even have a detail of all the different places too.

[Brian Preston]

Y and then your mortgages, your total debt is about two and a half million dollars. So a lot of equity in the real estate. How'd you guys go about, like, what was your strategy for acquiring real estate? And timeline, like walk us through how you guys thought through that.

[Jason]

Initial primary residence was 5% down. And I think our very first home was even FHA finance. So started just with what we could do and then that property we fixed up and when we moved, we sold it and made some money. Then we put 20% down on the second home that was in Atlanta. And ever since then I've done that just because I don't want to pay pmi. And you know, I like to have an equity position and especially in the rental space. So, you know, I, I think I've been pretty conservative in making sure that our, our cash flow is there to where we don't get into a tight situation where we've got to feed these things every month. So that was kind of the strategy. So put enough down and I did some fix and flips along the way as well and used some of that money to buy other properties and did a couple of cash out refis to buy, buy more properties.

[Brian Preston]

But okay, so you had some, had some equity homes, but you would go take cash out and then use.

[Jason]

I did that a couple of times just to be able to acquire more Properties, but still keep, you know, some decent equity in there and make sure it cash flows after that cash out, refi.

[Brian Preston]

So one of the things we noticed on the network statement, you have this thing called self directed IRA cash. And then you also have in addition your IRS, you have these self directed IRAs, which is a little unique. What, what's going on with those? On the network statement we had some,

[Jason]

you know, rollover for 1Ks, we moved into IRAs and then we, I decided to self direct those because real estate is what I really know. And you know, at the time we didn't have, you know, financial advisors or anything. So it was just me. And my comfortability is with real estate. Right. So I'm not picking stocks, bonds and mutual funds. So what I know is real estate. And so I move that money over into self directed IRAs, you know, checkbook control IRA. And I invested in real estate with that money. And so that's where some of that comes from.

[Brian Preston]

Investing in real estate through an IRA is different than investing on it, investing in it with just after tax dollars. How'd you guys educate yourselves? Because there's some like, stuff you got to be aware of and stuff you have to know so that you don't run foul.

[Candy]

I'd love to start it by saying, and I told you guys this, Jason and I, we don't come from wealthy families. We didn't have a whole lot of, you know, financial education from our, our parents are great, don't get me wrong. But you know, that just wasn't our story. And so when I say we watched television and looked at, you know, podcast, listened YouTube, that really, really served us well. So for your audience members that are like, you know, I'm not rich, look at me, neither am I. But it can be done. It really can be.

[Jason]

Yeah. And then we went to a couple of conferences based on, you know, podcasts that had found and online search just in, you know, research. I, I love to learn and learn and learn, you know, all I can about this. And so we went to a couple of conferences as well and spoke to some people that had done it, gave us a little bit of comfort level, enough knowledge I felt like we could kind of venture into. And we started with one, you know, we just started with one property. It was a short term vacation rental in Gatlinburg, Tennessee. So we bought, that was our first purchase with self directed IRA funds.

[Brian Preston]

And so walk us through. How'd you think about that? Like when you did the self directed thing, like what was the thought process when you bought that first, I think that'd be helpful for a lot of folks.

[Candy]

It would be, yeah. First was location, I think both of us. So my, my family is from Alabama in Virginia. And when we were, my dad was in the military, so we would drive up to Virginia to visit my grandparents. We would always stop in Gatlinburg.

[Brian Preston]

Yeah.

[Candy]

So, you know, it was near and dear to our hearts. His parents left, they eloped essentially and left Michigan, got married in. Was a Gallatin in North Carolina, I think, honeymoon in Gatlinburg and came back. So it was kind of near and dear to his heart.

[Jason]

And then we would, we would go down as kids. So my parents and my brother and I, we would drive down from Michigan and visit Gatlinburg and stuff. And we didn't know that we had that in common.

[Brian Preston]

Right, right.

[Jason]

You know, we were dating until we were well into marriage.

[Candy]

Right, right.

[Jason]

And we were living in Atlanta and we decided to go up to the mountains, you know, and come to find out she's gone there several times as a, as a child. And I had gone there several times as a child. So we're curious on how it had changed and what it was like. And so we went up there to vacation.

[Candy]

Right. So we, we find this property. I think you'd watched a YouTube video or something about the directed IRA and we were like, well, maybe we should try this with this property. So we, we buy the property. It, it did fairly well.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Really.

[Jason]

Yeah, really well actually.

[Brian Preston]

How much was the, how much was the property? Like, what was the cost of property?

[Jason]

187. It was.

[Candy]

Oh, this is a sore subject.

[Jason]

This is. Yeah, this is, this is a touchy one. I don't want to think about what. Don't ask you what it's worth today.

[Candy]

That's what he's mad about.

[Jason]

We sold it.

[Brian Preston]

Okay.

[Jason]

We didn't make a lot on it. And I'm, I'm, you know, the, the, the, the missed opportunities hurt more so than the winds are exciting. But the missed opportunities will stay with you.

[Brian Preston]

So when you, okay, so you have this, this, this property. $187,000. You had this, these IRA rollovers for one case. So what'd you do? You opened up a, a separate self directed ira. How much money you put in there? You put a down payment, you went and got financing. How that whole process work?

[Jason]

50%. So on the 187, plus closing costs we needed, we could get a non recourse loan for 50% of the value. And so we, from a rollover 401k into the IRA. Open up a self directed IRA had enough to do that in that account at the time. And so it was approximately 50% plus closing costs that we had to put forth and then 50% non recourse debt.

[Brian Preston]

You end up renting the property. You have income coming in from it, pay on the mortgage and then you sell the property.

[Jason]

Yes.

[Brian Preston]

Okay. When did you sell the property?

[Candy]

Two years later. Yeah.

[Jason]

Yes, about two years later. Bought something else and we bought another place which was great.

[Candy]

And what we learned was that at least in the Gatlinburg market at that time, if you can go bigger and better do it because you make better money. We sell that property, bought something that was. Had a little bit higher elevation which is, you know, nice for, for rentals and it was a little bit bigger. Not, not like a 12 person place. Probably slept six or eight or eight. So we, so we gradually were able to, you know, learn from our mistakes and be able to apply what we learned to next property that we bought in Gatlinburg.

[Jason]

Yeah, I think we made just a little bit of money on that first one. It went up in value. Right. So they had these wildfires unfortunately in Gatlinburg. It was really sad. After that, of course there were, you know, about 500 less cabins or something and image. So prices went up and we thought, oh well let's, let's exercise this option and sell it. We can make some money. Because you know, home values were going up in that market because of low inventory. We should have just held on, obviously, hindsight. But we sold it and then we took that money and we went and bought a nicer place, a little bit bigger place, nicer view.

[Candy]

Yeah, No, I think that was the right move. You feel differently. I think that was the right move.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

We're sitting on a pretty large net worth. We all, we're all gonna have woulda, shoulda, coulda.

[Candy]

Well right.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

There's those things just haunt all of us. I mean. But I think you focus on what you have had success with. I was curious because seeing a $5 million, you know, real estate holding and then I know there's a little over 2 million of still mortgages. How much is self directed IRAs versus how much do you guys just own? Do we. I think we have a list of the real estate. Any of these. I mean which of these are self directed or are these all outside of that short term?

[Jason]

Number three is self directed.

[Candy]

Okay.

[Jason]

And that's it. Everything else at this point, that's okay.

[Brian Preston]

Got it. Awesome.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Now that I know this because, well, self directed IRA real estate investing is kind of like pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered and the fact that you can use it, but it is, it is not for the faint of heart.

[Candy]

It is not right.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

And you, you, I was really impressed. You can tell you, you, you did your research because you were talking about how, how big of a down payment you do because you non recourse financing, there's also, you know, you're not even allowed, like if the plumbing goes bad, you can't show up and fix it because that's considered like a contribution that you're not allowed to make. So you have to run everything through.

[Jason]

That's right.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

And then you also have a clock in the background because you know, the thing with IRAs is the government gives you this money on this deferred growth and so forth. But in the 70, I mean once you get in your 70s, they're going to say, okay, now start giving me the money.

[Candy]

Yep.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Right. It's hard to do that with real estate because it's not liquid. But, but, and then also you have, you have to, you're kind of in business with your bank because whoever your custodian is has to be good at this and make it accessible and keep everything compliant or it could go sideways really quick.

[Jason]

Oh, there's a lot of details to it. So not for the faint of heart.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

I heard this and I saw the portfolio. I was like, oh my gosh, I wonder how much of this $5 million is in these IRAs. So you actually made me feel this. Just, I felt like a weight just came off my shoulder because I was trying to figure out how we were going to navigate this.

[Brian Preston]

We thought you have nine or ten problem properties inside.

[Jason]

Yeah, right.

[Brian Preston]

Okay.

[Jason]

We, we have, we had two. I sold one in December.

[Brian Preston]

Okay.

[Jason]

Of this last year. There is a lot to know about it. It is not for the faint of heart. There's a lot of details to it and you can get tripped up very easily. And then the tax implications, I'm like the non recourse that doesn't always show

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

up in the brochure. They don't tell you that stuff. You figure it. Yes, definitely. The fine print, the eye. Oh, okay. I guess we'll figure this out for your audience.

[Jason]

Let's say this. I sold. So we bought a property was 280,000 and we sold that with a self directed IRA. We sold that in December for 549,000. So that we did well on that. However, there's trust Rate taxes on that 50% on that non recourse debt. So we've got a tax bill sitting out there. About 40 grand.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Yeah.

[Jason]

Now I said aside the money, I mean sure, it's fine. And we did, still did well on the investment. But that's one of those things, right. That can trip people up.

[Brian Preston]

I was going to ask having having invested inside the self directed IRA but then also invested outside where you can can take advantage of depreciation and you can have long term capital gains rates and those sorts of things. Which one do you like better? Have you decided like oh, when it comes to real estate investing, I would do it this way.

[Candy]

What do you like?

[Jason]

Oh, no, hands down. I mean just with outside of.

[Candy]

Yeah.

[Brian Preston]

This is not a brochure for doing self investing.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

I think a lot.

[Candy]

It's an option like we've learned a

[Jason]

lot from and so I would recommend. Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

But you know the problem with real. We love real estate too, but we take a bad rap sometimes because people say they just don't like. We love real estate but we like real estate. When you really can do real estate right is. And sometimes I feel like the self directed IRA feels like it's a bridge very much. It's not like a credit card, but it is in some ways is that sometimes debt is used as a bridge to do things earlier than you should. I feel like self directed IRA investing in a real estate is one of those things where hey, you got a big pot of money left over from a former employer. Let us help you get into this. And you just don't know what you're getting into.

[Candy]

Yes, true.

[Jason]

I think that's true.

[Candy]

But it's timing. The way I think about it is timing. Like at our, at that point of our lives, real estate was a smart move for us to do. Gatlinburg was booming at the time. It's a little different right now, but Gatlinburg was booming at the time. We had the money, we went for it.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

But that's where luck does come into play.

[Candy]

It does.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Look, I made, I think about my. Like I was one of those people back during the collapse of, of of housing in Georgia. I was on an interest only loan for my primary residence. I mean but it worked out great for me long term because I mean responsible. I mean I would have, I didn't treat it like an interest only I've made. If you read the book, I talk about all the, the negative equity I prepaid because the house got crushed, you know, and I didn't Walk from it. Like a lot of my neighbors.

[Candy]

Yeah.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

But it was one of those things where I look back though, and it was. This was a tool that was probably too aggressive in the market, but it did. I was able to use it. And just like you have been able to use this and now leverage it.

[Candy]

Yeah.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

And you can educate people to know, don't, don't get too greedy with these products.

[Jason]

And I would agree. I think it was a little bit aggressive looking back on where we're at today when we use the self directed IRA funds to buy that second, it was probably a little aggressive at that time for us too.

[Candy]

You ever heard the saying, the Lord takes care of fools and babies?

[Brian Preston]

That's right. I love it. So here we are and we're thinking about, okay, in the next five years, we want to look at some sort of transition. We want to transition to part time or less time traveling. Walk us through what things change, like when that happens. Because one of the things we don't know, like are these rental properties, are they cash flowing? Are they breaking even? Are they an income source? You said you want to. I think the word you used was simplify a little bit.

[Jason]

Yes.

[Brian Preston]

Walk us through. When you paint the vision of what five years from now looks like, what's that look like? Sort of in the perfect scenario for, for you guys.

[Jason]

For me, it's simplification because I think you always say that the, you know, it becomes complex. Right.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

You don't mean for it too.

[Brian Preston]

And it.

[Jason]

And it's complex right now.

[Brian Preston]

Okay.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

So.

[Jason]

And I feel that. I feel that way. So as I feel as though when I transition to retirement, I, I don't want to feel that I, I want things to be simple. I still love real estate and I still want to have the ability to do a deal here or there.

[Brian Preston]

Sure.

[Jason]

That pops up and keep that, that very small portfolio. Perhaps, but I need to simplify everything else.

[Brian Preston]

So what is a very small portfolio? Is that a dollar size or is that like a number of property sizes?

[Jason]

In my mind, it's a number of properties. Like we already kind of have them earmarked, sort of what we would like to keep. So we own some townhouses in northeast Gainesville, Georgia.

[Brian Preston]

Yeah.

[Jason]

Okay. So in Gainesville, Georgia. So right now we have four. We've got one under contract, so we'll have five there. And I'd like to keep those.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Okay.

[Jason]

Because they're all in one Now. Think about diversification. Maybe not the greatest strategy, but I. But simplification, it's a good strategy. And I feel like in that they're all within the same area and they. They're easily managed. And they're townhouses with low HOA that do allow rentals. And we've had the four of them for a while now. And they do well. They cash flow really well. They're small, they're easy to maintain.

[Brian Preston]

Do you know off the top of your head which one, which ones they

[Jason]

are on the list long term, 1, 2, 3, and 4 that have the 2 22,000 value.

[Brian Preston]

And those rates are not super crazy. 5 looks like it's from 3.375 up to 5.125. Not affordable rates. And you said all of those cash flow.

[Jason]

Correct.

[Brian Preston]

And you're acquiring one more.

[Jason]

One more. And I'm paying cash for that. We're paying cash for that one. For that fifth one.

[Brian Preston]

When you look at all five of those, how much will they generate net cash flow to you guys?

[Jason]

Right now I'd have to do the math with the debt. So my other thought is that we maybe pay them off.

[Brian Preston]

Oh, okay.

[Jason]

Yeah. For retirement. So. Because then they'll cash flow about a thousand a month. And I feel like 5,000amonth of free cash flow would be really nice. Yeah, right, right. Because, you know, I would like to retire before I'm eligible for Social Security. So I think that would. That would be nice.

[Brian Preston]

So that each cash flow about a thousand dollars a month if there were no debt on them.

[Jason]

Correct. Yes.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

The other question, because you have a mix here. You've got long term, you know, and for those who aren't real estate investors, that means that you're typically signing year leases beyond nine months or so. Right. Whereas short term is like, that's your VRBOs, your, your Airbnbs.

[Jason]

Yes.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

How have those been? Because those. Because I'm also. When I see.

[Brian Preston]

Because people get really excited about short term.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Well, they do.

[Jason]

They do.

[Candy]

So you get into it.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Well, there's some great. There's. Because everybody. You know how they do. They use cost segregation. They do depreciation, they do all these things. There are a lot of cool things in the brochure for why this is awesome. But I know from my own. And that's why I wanted to hear from you guys, because now y' all have got a mix of both. Long term, short term. It's no different than like a rental car. People, you know, they're gonna slam on the accelerator, they're gonna, you know, skid on the brakes.

[Candy]

We got some good stories.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

That's right.

[Brian Preston]

That's right.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

I remember when we had a beach rental. I tried to put nice mattress pads on the houses. I had nice pillows.

[Candy]

That was so sweet.

[Jason]

I did that too, you know, because

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

you're trying to create the best experience. Next time you go down there, you're like, like, what happened to my mattress pad? What happened to the pillows?

[Candy]

We had a place in Memphis. Loved it.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Candy]

When I tell you people would pee in the bed. Just awful.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Yeah. You have to replace mattresses every two. We had a beach rental and we had to replace couches. It seemed like every two years. Mattresses every two years. You couldn't do nice stuff because people.

[Candy]

That's what we had to learn.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Or break it still.

[Candy]

It'll break it. That's right.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

So it's just had a lot of. Of transient replacement of everything. So when you talk about simplification, I'm like, are y' all enjoying the short terms?

[Jason]

Well, we do use property management companies for the show. There's no way that we could do that with our W2s, you know, so we do have property management. And then also going back to the self directed ira, you have to have property management. Right. Because to your point, you can't do it yourself. So what's your take on short term rentals moving forward?

[Candy]

This is my take, of course. Time is everything. You know, when we first got into the Gatlinburg, it was great. Right now, you know, everything is just so overbuilt that you know that they're not renting like they. They used to. Having a great management company is key, particularly when you're long distance and, you know, and you have to get used to, you know, you can't have nice stuff in these places. I'm the kind that like. Like I said, my parents were in the military and they took pride in. We had people come over that had their. They made their favorite meal, they had, you know, all that good stuff. And that's how I handle our short term rentals. You can't do that.

[Brian Preston]

I have a great example because this

[Jason]

is another lesson learned. I've got a lot of lessons because. From a lot of mistakes. Do you remember when I did the soap?

[Candy]

Oh, yeah.

[Jason]

So I bought these amber glass shampoo bottles and I branded one of the short term rentals. This is one I've sold. So it was called hello Sunshine.

[Brian Preston]

Okay.

[Jason]

So I got custom soaps and labels for the shampoo bottle. All this, you know, like really, I had a hello Sunshine throw pillows.

[Brian Preston]

Yeah.

[Jason]

That didn't last at all.

[Candy]

This stuff, you Know what I did? I didn't say a word.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

I knew it wasn't gonna work.

[Candy]

I knew it wasn't gonna work.

[Jason]

She knew I was wasting my money.

[Brian Preston]

But again, lessons learned, right?

[Candy]

Preparing you for the next one?

[Jason]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Brian Preston]

So, okay, so when you think about simplifying, right, you want to get down to these five townhouses in Gainesville. Are there others you want to keep on the list or is it just that really everything else you're looking at to probably liquidate?

[Jason]

Just that I think we're not even. Oh, yes, yes, sorry. There's one long term rental in, in Northern Michigan we were. We plan to keep as well.

[Brian Preston]

Which one is that?

[Jason]

It's a. It's probably number eight.

[Brian Preston]

Number eight.

[Jason]

Number eight. Yeah. So that one cash flows really well.

[Brian Preston]

That's a seven and a half.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Got a big interest rate on it.

[Jason]

It does, but I'll re. I'll. I'll refi it. Okay. It's got a five year note on it.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Anyway, as you started selling some of these other ones, you could probably, you know, come up with some proceeds also to pay down that, that debt.

[Jason]

Absolutely. That or, or just, just flat out refi. It's a commercial loan because it's a mixed use building. So there's like an attorney's office on the first floor and then there's three long term rental units.

[Candy]

Awesome.

[Jason]

And it's a really great, cool building and we like owning it. We love the tenants.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

It's only worth 425, 000.

[Jason]

I know, I know. Northern Michigan.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Northern Michigan.

[Candy]

Don't tell everybody.

[Brian Preston]

Values just went up. Okay.

[Candy]

So.

[Brian Preston]

Okay, so we're gonna simplify. So that's one of the goals when we get through. What else? Like when we think about, like, have you guys figured out, because you mentioned, I want to travel. When it comes to living the life you want to live and doing the things you want to do, how much does it cost to do that? Like, what's the burn rate you guys are going to have when you're doing those things?

[Candy]

Yeah. So in my mind, I have what I call quarterly living.

[Brian Preston]

Okay.

[Candy]

And I like to go somewhere I say, I. I would like for my husband to go with me.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

I'm coming along.

[Brian Preston]

You get to come too.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Awesome.

[Candy]

Every. I want to go someplace different if we can.

[Brian Preston]

Okay. Like live someplace doesn't like visit live.

[Candy]

I want to live in Vietnam for three months. I want to live in Paris for three months. I want to live in Mexico for three months.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Does that freak you out or is that excited?

[Jason]

No, I'm ready. Oh, sounds exciting.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

This sounds great.

[Jason]

I love it.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

I love it. Yes.

[Candy]

What that's going to cost? We're hoping that you'll tell us. You know, we thought in my mind, yeah, I think we would like to have $10,000 a month and not that we would spend that.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Let's firm this up a little bit. All right, so if you're living somewhere three months, you're not going from that three months to another three. Are we saying out of 12 months, three months away or six months away? Give us some plans so we can actually build something around this.

[Candy]

In my mind, if I wanted to go to at least two places in a year.

[Jason]

For at least three months.

[Candy]

Yeah, for three months.

[Brian Preston]

So six months a year living somewhere

[Jason]

else, and then six months. Months a year here, of course.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

So now I know. Now, now look, you. You've given out too broad. We're. We're all over the place.

[Jason]

We're all over the place because you

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

can go to Asia and some of those areas, like you said, Vietnam. The cost of living in those areas is. Is very affordable. So you might actually. As long as you cash flow. You might actually have a cash flow pickup.

[Candy]

Right, right, right. We might turn 6 degrees, but. Right.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Paris a little bit more Paris, you know, it's. It's completely different. So we probably need to balance some type of assumptions into that.

[Candy]

That's a good idea.

[Jason]

That's. But that's exactly what I was thinking, is balancing it just like you said. So if we're gonna go to Paris, then we need to go somewhere else that's, you know, a lot less expensive. So we've got.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

So you wouldn't go Paris, Singapore, exactly the same year.

[Jason]

Precisely. Yeah, exactly.

[Candy]

Paris. And then come home.

[Jason]

I think the budget's gonna kind of dictate, you know, where we go and how long you stay and that sort of thing.

[Brian Preston]

So is the question not okay? Do we have enough to live X lifestyle? And it's more okay, based on what we have, what lifestyle will that support? Which one of those questions are we trying to answer?

[Candy]

Gosh, I think the question is, as I visualize this, I don't see us living in the most expensive place. I see us living in the cheapest place. But being able to have experiences in the places that we're in, like the

[Jason]

countryside outside of Paris is what you say.

[Red Bull Announcer]

That's it.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

That's it.

[Candy]

I'm sorry, what was the original question?

[Brian Preston]

Yeah, so what I was trying to figure. I thought you were gonna say, hey, we figured out it's Gonna cost us $15,000 a month to live, to be able to do the things we wanna do and live the life we wanna live. But what I'm hearing you say now is, hey. Actually the language is, hey, the budget is going to dictate. So what you're looking for us to say is, okay, based on what you've accumulated and based on where you'll be five years from now, we think that that amount of money that portfolio can sustain $11,000 a month. Yes.

[Candy]

Part B.

[Brian Preston]

Then you're gonna figure out how to fit your retirement into that.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

That, that helps us with the planning assumptions because we want to be able to give you parameters and essentially guardrails and then you'll structure it, live your best life and have fun with it.

[Brian Preston]

So we want to simplify. We're going to figure out this sort of living thing. You said your work can be done virtually. So in terms of this quarterly living, you can do it anywhere anyhow.

[Jason]

Right.

[Candy]

That's it.

[Brian Preston]

In terms of income sources. So we have to make some sort of assumption around like income from working and real estate and that sort of thing. Or do we want to figure out, okay, will the portfolio pay for all of your living expenses and we pretend like there's no other other income coming in or can we use some number for working income? And like what do we want to assume is a base level of income that will be coming in for you

[Candy]

guys in that stage, like post selling properties?

[Jason]

Well, you're looking at going part time.

[Candy]

Yeah.

[Jason]

Right. So it'd be your part time wages, maybe the 5k cash flow from the townhouses. And that would probably be it, you know, the bridge on. Well, and whatever, you know, our investments earn. Right. So whatever the investments earn, we could use some of that to supplement. And then probably, you know, the thought was 62, she would do Social Security, I would postpone mine until later for spousal benefit purposes. So, yeah, so there might be a little bridge there between whatever it is, 59 and a half, let's say in 62. And I think we want to be mindful of IRMAA too.

[Candy]

Yeah.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

How about health insurance? What are y' all thinking about for retirement on health insurance?

[Candy]

Yeah, we would switch to more.

[Jason]

So right now we're on my health plan from my W2, so we would switch over to hers and getting some

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

benefits out of you, keeping this thing rolling.

[Candy]

You know, when we got married, he said, what am I getting out in this marriage? I was like, here's a AAA membership, baby.

[Brian Preston]

This is.

[Jason]

She keeps that renewed every year, 21 years.

[Brian Preston]

We're going to potentially sell some of the properties. We're going to take the proceeds, satisfy the debt. Right. But there's likely even once we simplify these probably a big chunk of assets that we got to figure out something to do with. He said, hey, I've been a real estate guy. I haven't done stocks and bonds and mutual funds. But is the idea you're going to just be sitting on a bunch of cash to look for additional real estate opportunities or is it, hey, I'm going to take that money, we're going to deploy it to a diversified portfolio that can grow for us into the future. The latter.

[Candy]

He's shaking his head, but I know him better than he knows himself. He's gonna want to buy something.

[Jason]

Okay, So I need a little bit of play money.

[Brian Preston]

Okay.

[Jason]

I need a little bit of play money. But yes, the remainder of it. We want to invest, we just want to invest in, in the market or whatever makes sense. Just so I'm more hands off and kind of have the freedom that I'm looking for. But yes, right now we set a little bit of cash aside where it says real estate fund and it's 160 right now.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

We don't have the list up. How many houses y' all have right now? Now if y' all don't know off the top of your head, this

[Jason]

a few recently.

[Brian Preston]

What's future primary. What's that?

[Jason]

Oh, that. We already own that. That's in East Tennessee.

[Brian Preston]

Okay, got it. So it looks like there's about 12 here.

[Candy]

12? Yeah. Right.

[Jason]

I mean we, yeah, and we, we've sold four in the last year.

[Brian Preston]

Okay. So you've already begun this wind down process. Not acquired anymore in the last year.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

But when you say you want to have some play money, you're not trying to get back to 12 properties again?

[Jason]

Again? No.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Okay.

[Jason]

No, but I like to have. So you know, it's kind of the Warren Buffett thing. Invest in what you know. Right. And I know, I feel like I've got a good grasp of real estate and in particular markets.

[Brian Preston]

Right.

[Jason]

And so I, I'd like a little bit like that 160. That's for real estate fund. That's what we're going to buy that other, that fifth townhouse with I want to townhomes.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

You're not using a management company on that though, are you?

[Jason]

No, no.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

So that is, I'm just pushing back a little bit because you guys are gonna be living over In Vietnam or Paris. Living your best life.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

And then all of a sudden the toilet breaks.

[Brian Preston]

Yeah.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

They're gonna, they're gonna start telling you hey, we got water, we need somebody out. And you're like, oh my gosh. And the time zone differences. We just need to probably build some realistic expectations. I'm okay with you dabbling in the real estate, but let's, let's be honest with ourselves is that if we want true pass passive living in retirement, you're not going to be wanting to be the Roto rooter and the oh no, I don't want to be the rotor and everything else.

[Jason]

But I, we do have my mom that lives in one of those townhouses and she's fantastic. She's a real estate broker.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Okay.

[Jason]

And she oversees those.

[Brian Preston]

So he has a management, he has a management company. What he's got, he's got the mom management going on

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

turns into the consideration instead of paying a property management fee.

[Candy]

It's love, it's consideration.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

She's gonna see this and she's gonna be like, look, I love you son. I know too much now, but now I know way too much. Maybe we ought to add a little feed of this.

[Candy]

That's right.

[Jason]

She's, she's awesome. We've, we've, you know, worked together for a number of years in, aside from her being my mom, you know, you know, we've done some fix and flips together and things like that. She's fantastic day. So she does oversee those for us right now. So you know, she's kind of the point person. You know, I'm still the decision maker and you know, we collaborate with her on that road term rental.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

So it's usually a one off thing like that is much easier.

[Jason]

Yeah. And, but to that point she won't be able, she won't be able to do that forever though either. And I don't want to burden her with that, you know, for however many years.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

But the big takeaway, I don't want to go too, too far into the weeds on this. You are okay if some of this is in like index funds and diversified portfolio because that way we can absolute simplify this thing as much as possible.

[Jason]

I want the bulk of it to be there.

[Candy]

Yeah.

[Brian Preston]

So right now you have, I'm doing some mental math here, about $3 million of equity in your, in your real estate portfolio.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Correct.

[Brian Preston]

You know what it feels like to have $3 million invested in real estate? You've only got about a little under a million dollars invested in the liquid Markets. Have you thought through this is going to be sort of a significant shift to where now the vast majority of your wealth is going to be in liquid markets and you're going to see the values go up and down, up and down every single day. Any reservations, hesitations with that or like, okay, no, that's what we want. We're comfortable with that.

[Candy]

I think having the short term rentals probably helped us with that a little bit. Like, the toll is out. Okay. The, oh, you got a new ac. Like, it's still up and down. It's just a different type of up and down when you're investing differently. And I'd rather be a little bit nervous about the market than knowing that, okay, their shower isn't working. To me, that's worse. Like, I want, I would not. And I stand by this. I do not put people in places that I wouldn't live in. If someone showers, not working, I'm up all night thinking about that.

[Brian Preston]

I love that.

[Jason]

Yeah, we fix it.

[Brian Preston]

That makes you great landlord is what that makes you. That's awesome.

[Candy]

Sometimes it does work against you as

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

a real estate because that's the problem I have with too far on real Bono, too nice. Well, also, there's a reason when Bo and I buy real estate, he knows he has to kind of be the super on some of this stuff, because I will. I'm worried every pipe's freezing. I'm worried I'm a worry ward on all this stuff. So that's why we're a good balance with each other, because he handles a lot of that stuff. Sometimes he even says there's something that happened. Do you want to know or do you want to just write a check? I was like, I'll just write the check. Don't tell me.

[Jason]

Right. You kind of play good cop, bad cop with the same guiding principle that if we wouldn't live in it, we wouldn't have someone else live in it. And so, but she's really, really great with tenant relations. And I handle the money and the bills and the, you know, this and that and the leases and stuff. So I'm, you know, we, I think we make a really good team.

[Candy]

Obviously, we do well in that aspect. So to me, it's just trading off a different risk, like up and down, up and down. So I'm, I'm okay.

[Jason]

Yeah, I, I, and I think we expect market fluctuations.

[Candy]

Can't look at it his own.

[Jason]

I just don't look at it daily.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

You know, we always, for retirees, I mean, what we try to structure. I know. With our own clients, we try to set up what's coming from the portfolio, treat it like a direct deposit. So it's like you're getting a pension payment in retirement. We just have an automatic amount of money that shows up in retirees. That way, when you are overseas, the money just is automatically replenishing, and then behind the scenes, the rebalancing and the restructuring of the portfolio should be happening automatically if you're doing this right.

[Jason]

That sounds great to me.

[Brian Preston]

All right, so our timeline, is it five years? Is it 60 months? Because I want to have a timeline that we're working on as we're putting together the plan. Because you kind of said. We've said a few different things.

[Candy]

We did.

[Brian Preston]

What's the actual timeline that, hey, I want to know that by this date we can move in this direction and begin living this life.

[Jason]

So it's a great question, and I'm not sure how to answer that. I think I like the peace of mind knowing that it could be tomorrow. But realistically, we've got a lot of moves to make with the divestiture of these assets, you know, moving money around and all. And that's going to take time because it's real estate.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Two years, right? Three years.

[Jason]

I don't. I don't know. I think it takes as long as it's going to take. I like the peace of mind knowing, are we good right now? Yeah, if we're good right now. I like my job, you know, and I love the people I work with, and everything's going well, so I don't need to, but I do feel like we need to.

[Candy]

Yeah. Let's say five years. Just.

[Red Bull Announcer]

Just.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

But I think we could say, what's

[Brian Preston]

it like end of year this year? What could it look like two years in the future? Like five years in the future.

[Candy]

All right, that's great.

[Brian Preston]

If you're going to continue working all three of those scenarios, look. Yeah.

[Jason]

Oh, yeah.

[Brian Preston]

So we can kind of build all three of those out.

[Jason]

And I think it'll probably take us realistically, you know, knowing our properties and markets, it'll probably take us through next year to be able to divest consolidated. Correct.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

I think you're going to find it's interesting. When I sold my tax practice, I thought I was going to miss doing some of the taxes, and then Bo knows the rest of the story. I didn't miss doing taxes because you're still going to have your foot still in the shallow end of the pool. I don't think I think you're gonna enjoy going more traditional in the long term on this because it'll really free you up from some of the headaches that you probably just are ingrained in you right now.

[Red Bull Announcer]

Yeah.

[Jason]

Oh, yeah. Well, I think about my situation a couple years ago. Yeah, I was stressed out. I mean, we had a lot going on. You know, we were at construction projects going on and buying and selling and my job and her job and everything else. It was a lot. And I think that's when I mentally started to shift. Like, you know, I need to think about what's the. What's the end goal here and maybe start working toward that instead of going, going, going. Cause it started to become a little too much. I was juggling a lot of things.

[Candy]

That's something to think about, particularly with some of your viewers may be younger and kind of, you know, building their career. And it's great to be able, you know, go, go, go while you're young. I was like, think about your stress level. You know, when I. One thing that I feel like millennials and what's the next generation after that? Gen Z. Gen Z, Gen Z. I really. I'm proud of them for taking their mental health seriously. Because my generation will work until we can't work anymore.

[Brian Preston]

Buried deep down inside.

[Candy]

That's it. You buried it. And so thinking about him during that time and he was very stressed. It's important to keep that in mind as you're building your career. Go for what you know, but. But, you know, keep your mental health and your physical health.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

I talk to Beau about this all the time because I think achievers, we all just go, go and trying to always check the box. And there's nothing wrong with being in that warrior phase of life where you are trying to conquer the world, essentially. But y' all know, because we're all kind of in the same boat. I'm sorry, you can sit this one out. But I mean, there is something about when you get older, you don't want to have to carry so much because it's. The stress manifests itself in weird sleep issues. It shows up in what you can do in your 20s, 30s, and even early 40s with no struggle, all of a sudden will show up if you don't take care of yourself. And then you're going to find out as you get in your 50s and 60s. Health is wealth.

[Jason]

Absolutely.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

You better make sure that. And if you don't think your mental happiness is not impacting all the physical sides of it, it does. It's a Weird dynamic come into play. So I had this conversation with somebody I was on the phone with yesterday who was talking about that because he's in that, that conquer the world phase. And I was like, I promise you, take it from the older guy. You have to start building margin into your life.

[Candy]

Yes.

[Jason]

Oh yeah.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

So that you have, so that you can actually enjoy this. Because you know, maximizing and optimizing every transaction of your life works great in your 30s and 40s.

[Candy]

It's not sustainable, but it's okay.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

When your 40s and late 40s and early 50s and even 60s, you don't have to maximize every dollar now. It's okay to let some of your army of dollars just be there for you for simplicity, for happiness. So you live your best life. And that's something we balance and talk to people about all the time.

[Candy]

We gotta click glasses on that.

[Jason]

It's true.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

It's so true. Conquering the world. I mean, because that's. He's still. Probably brings deals to me and he's like, hey, what do you think about this? I'm like, bo, come on, man. I still need processing time for that.

[Candy]

Bo, conquer the world, but pull about. You got kids, Bo?

[Brian Preston]

I have three.

[Jason]

Yeah, okay.

[Candy]

Conquer it now, but think about.

[Brian Preston]

All right, I've got some homework for you guys. You ready? Because I feel like we've got some good marching plan that we can put together. Obviously you've already begun the process of selling the properties that you don't want to hold on to long term. I would encourage you continue doing that as you begin selling those properties. I think one of the things you're gonna be able to do is consolidate the accounts. Even on the liquid side, you have a bunch of different accounts. You may not need all the self directed IRA pieces. You might be able to consolidate those into IRAs and when you retire 401ks. So that way really can have a pretty simplified account structure because then you'll start doing stuff like maybe we should be looking at Roth conversions or those sorts of things so that'll be available for you. I do think it'd be helpful for you guys to really dial in your timeline. It could be five, could be two. But you ought to talk about what you really, really want. Because from a logistical standpoint, retiring at 55 for you has different implications in retiring at 59 and a half or post 60 or post 62. And then the people who have said they want to do really fun travel, like really exciting travel, but it's sort of like out there in the ether, I want to do this. I tell them, hey, go and figure out the first places you're going to go, whatever. Whenever you retire, whether it's end of this year, two years from now, five years, is Paris going to be the first one you try to tackle, or are we going to go spend three months in Mexico or in Canada? You know, figure out what that looks like. And the more clear you can have that defined, the easier the transition is going to be. Because a lot of people just say, oh, I want to travel, I want to travel, I want to travel. They put in their notice, they stop working, and then they're like, oh, what to do next? What do I do now? So if you can have a plan of not only what you're retiring from, but know pretty clearly what you're retiring to, at least in that first 24 to 36 months, I think that's going to help.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

I think Katie's got that covered.

[Candy]

Maybe I got you.

[Brian Preston]

She's already said Vietnam is on the list. That's early on.

[Jason]

That's early on.

[Brian Preston]

Man, you guys are great. This is going to be fun. I'm excited to put some. Put some numbers down and see what we come up with.

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[Brian Preston]

That's right, Brian. We can't control things like interest rates or tariffs, but we can control how efficiently we operate. And automating things like payroll and HR is one of the biggest best ways to get your time back and focus on what actually moves the needle.

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[Brian Preston]

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[Gusto/Shopify Announcer]

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[Brian Preston]

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[Gusto/Shopify Announcer]

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[Brian Preston]

Brian, I think one of the biggest surprises when you start A business is realizing you're responsible for everything.

[Gusto/Shopify Announcer]

That's exactly right at the beginning. You're the marketing department, operations, hr, customer service, all of it.

[Brian Preston]

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[Brian Preston]

moneyguy that's shopify.com moneyguy Brian, what an awesome conversation we got to have with Jason and Candy.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

I absolutely love Jason and Candy because look, I think a lot of people are gonna get lost in how big their numbers are.

[Jason]

Sure.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

But let's level set and bring this back into context is that they didn't start when they were in the early 20s, even mid-20s or even right at 30. I mean, this is a couple that started thinking about finances in their early 30s and they started at negative meaning. They actually had some debt built in the background, but yet they still built their great big beautiful tomorrow.

[Brian Preston]

Yeah. And it's really interesting they used real estate to do that. That was the way that they built their wealth. But now as they're sort of entering into this next phase, as they're going into retirement, they've said, hey, we really want to simplify. They kind of acknowled to us, you know, real estate is not a passive endeavor and it's not something that's super simple. And they want to simplify their lives as they think about what this next season and phase looks like. And I think a lot of people are going to Watch their story and say, ooh, I want what they have. I want to be where they are.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

And another thing that I like about Jason and Candy is when we do a lot of making millionaires, we have to project out where, where we think things are going to be. What's unique about them. Because, look, I resemble them in a lot of ways because we're in that same age group.

[Brian Preston]

Sure.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

We're actually getting look at their actual assets. We're not having to project where they're going to be. We're saying, hey, how do we land the plane with the success that they've already created?

[Brian Preston]

So as a reminder, when look at the real estate holdings, they had about $5 million in current real estate and about $2.3 million of debt, but they let us know, hey, there's a lot of these properties that we're not really planning on holding. We're actually okay selling and unwinding these. We said, okay, let's put together a plan to get these down to just the holdings that we want to continue to have. And then what we're going to do is with the ones that we sell off, we're actually going to satisfy the debt. Now, we wanted to be pretty conservative, so we just kind of took the values that they gave us. We added a 6% real estate commission, we assumed 1 1/2% for closing costs, and we came up with sort of a net number. So selling down all of the properties they no longer want to keep was going to net them about 1 $1.7 million, which is awesome. So they're going to sell, simplify, net down 1.7. And then we said, okay, for all the remaining debt for the properties that we do want to keep, let's take a chunk of that 1.7 and let's have you guys be completely debt free. So wiping the slate clean on the liability side. And that still left it with about $1.1 million to invest and grow for the future. Future, Yeah.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

I mean, this is fascinating to me because not only are they going to be debt free, but they're also going to have a little mini pension plan, if you think about it, because they're going to have five properties that are completely paid for. They're going to probably yield somewhere around $5,000 a month.

[Brian Preston]

Yep, thousand.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Each property, that's going to be a quite nice retirement they're going to get to work through as well.

[Brian Preston]

And then on top of that, they had sort of this mixed use building which they're unclear if they're going to pay off the debt on that. But for our analysis, we said, hey, yeah, just if you pay that off off, that's going to generate free and clear, about $3,000 per month in free cash flow. So you're talking about $8,000 a month coming from these real estate holdings that they plan on holding anyways. When we reframe their net worth statement after they go back through this, you can see that they're going to have about $180,000 in cash emergency fund liquid investments, a portfolio, liquid portfolio of just under about $2.1 million. And they're going to have a real estate portfolio with about 1.7 million. So their total net worth is right there at $4 million as they ease into this next stage of life.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

But I don't think it's. We can't minimize the value that just 1.1 of that is going to come from these real estate proceeds. That's really going to firm up the liquidity of this portfolio. So now they really will have $2.1 million kind of working for them in the liquid assets, Whereas if we didn't do the simplification, it would have been a lot less of liquid assets and counting on a lot more illiquid real estate side of things.

[Brian Preston]

So as they think about retirement, the question becomes, okay, well, what can $2 million do for us? So we said, okay, if we just said that, okay, we're going to wind down these properties and retire at the end of this year. So you got that 2.1 million, that 2.1 million plus the $8,000 a month coming in from the real estate portfolio could generate about $180,000 a year in today's dollars right now. So that's like $15,000 a month if they wanted to retire right now, but they were unclear on exactly the timeline of when they wanted to leave the workforce, we said, okay, what happens if we wait one year longer now the portfolio grows, and we just assumed a 6.5% rate of return. Well, now instead of almost 2.1 million, they could have a little over 2.2 million a year from now, kind of letting the real estate stuff settle. And then we said, okay, well, what if we wanted to wait five years into the future? What if we got all the way out to age 59? What could the portfolio grow to if you decided you didn't want to fully leave the workforce? And the portfolio could grow to almost $2.9 million five years from now. And again, if we just think about $8,000 from the rental. Rental portfolio we didn't even like, grow with inflation or adjust that 8,000 from there, plus 4% on a $2.9 million portfolio is almost $200,000 a year retirement income.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

What I love about this plan is that we really have Goldilocks there, because if they were, if they stay format, Jason and Candy were going to deal with a very complicated real estate portfolio. And it was just because they might not know it now. They do realize it. But I'm just telling it for the people who just think they're going to do real estate only is that it's going to be illiquid in a lot of ways. You're also very active. It's not going to be simplified. So that doesn't fit in my Goldilocks formula. If they just Apple cart sold it all, I don't know that that's a great thing. I think they miss it a little bit. I think they would miss it a little bit. Plus they got some great equity and some good hold. That really could be not fully mailbox money, but it's definitely more of the passive side of real estate with these townhomes and the free cash flow. So that's why I say it is the perfect mix of they're going to have investments that are going to be working for them. They're going to have real estate income that's going to be flowing in. So they have multiple streams. This is going to be the best of all things and give them their best version of retirement. And here's what the crazy thing is. If you want to say, well, maybe this is a pretty rosy situation. No, we left this still somewhat conservative. Doesn't even include Social Security.

[Brian Preston]

We didn't increase the rental income. We didn't factor in Social Security. We gave them a conservative rate of return. You were asking me is this sort of the dream plan, the down to earth plan, or the doo doo plan? I'd argue it's somewhere between doo doo and down to earth. This seems very, very reasonable. I think this is what their future could look like.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Well, it had to be somewhat passive because if you remember, Candy said, said, hey, we want to be traveling. I think, was it as crazy of a goal as six months out of the year?

[Brian Preston]

Yeah. Different places.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

It definitely needs to be mailbox money. But I got to tell Jason, now that we've actually run the numbers, I think you've got to be prepared that we got Candy going to Paris.

[Brian Preston]

She's ready. Paris better be ready for Candy.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

So this is going to be awesome.

[Brian Preston]

Awesome guys. You were wonderful. Thank you so much for getting hangouts. We love that you were willing to even open up your financial life and let us be part of it.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Yeah, they were phenomenal people. Crazy goals that they're going to actually be able to accomplish and it was just fun being kind of part of the story and getting to witness it both. For others who want to go on Making a Millionaire, if they want to share their story, what can they do?

[Brian Preston]

Yeah, if you'd like to be a guest on Making a millionaire, go to moneyguy.com apply or if you want to play with any of our tools or resources, you can go to moneyguy.com resources.

[Bo Hannah Hansen]

Jason Candy we really did a have a blast. Y' all were so fun to hang out with. I like if y' all wish y' all were next door neighbors, I think we would have a lot of fun hanging out. And I love that you were so transparent to share your journey. There go be some financial mutants that actually learn something from this but also probably see some of themselves. And we thank you for coming on and joining us. I'm your host Brian, joined by Mr. Bo Money Guy team Out.

[Money Guy Show Disclaimer Narrator]

The Money Guy show is hosted by Brian Preston and Bo Hannah Hansen. Brian and Beau are partners with Abound Wealth Management. Abound Wealth Management is a registered investment advisory firm regulated by the securities and Exchange Commission. In accordance and compliance with the securities laws and regulations, Abound Wealth Management does not render or offer to render personalized investment or tax advice through Making A Millionaire. The information provided is for informational purposes only, may not be suitable for all investors, and does not constitute financial, tax, investment or legal income advice. All investments involve a degree of risk, including the risk of loss. The guests featured on Making a Millionaire are not clients of Abound Wealth Management at the time of recording. Their participation should not be considered a testimonial or endorsement of Abound Wealth Management.