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- [00:05]
Brian Preston
Here is a big question that a lot of young people are thinking about. How much home can you actually afford in 2025?
- [00:13]
Bo Hanson
Brian, I am so excited to talk about this because housing has become this just very unique thing. It's almost like for people today that are not homeowners yet, it's almost like it's the white whale. It is like that unachievable goal that it seems to keep moving further and further and further. And so one of the questions we want people to be able to answer is, okay, when it comes to buying a home, when it comes to making this significant life decision, how do I do it and how do I do it?
- [00:41]
Brian Preston
Well, well, I think a good place to start. And I was really, it's, it's interesting when I get a resource that shares data so people can actually use this data to figure out where they fall into things. There's this interesting map that's come on our, in our, in our purview of how much people have to make to afford homes in each state.
- [01:03]
Bo Hanson
Yeah, this is the median income recommended for buying a three bedroom home by state. So how much does my median income need to be in this state to buy a three bedroom home?
- [01:16]
Brian Preston
That's provided by data from visual capitalists. It's very interesting, but look at this. I mean, there's a spread now. I guess if we were trying to figure out the lowest, I've been told by a team, West Virginia, West Virginia down there. And then the. You want to go to the highest, we have to look out to California.
- [01:33]
Bo Hanson
I think it's actually Hawaii is the highest. 229.
- [01:37]
Brian Preston
Look at that down there floating off the coast of Texas there. I know it's not actually off the coast of Texas, by the way, but it is one of those things because I, I was immediately drawn to, because I feel, I know we have a lot of listeners out in California, so I saw that 210. But you're right, Hawaii's at 229,000. But still all the numbers like here in Tennessee, where we are 121,000, that is. And what I know is when we compare to the median income of the typical American household, these numbers are higher.
- [02:06]
Bo Hanson
Yeah, if you just averaged all 50 of these together, the average is about $124,000. Well, if you think about $124,000 being the recommended income, and we know that right now the median household income in this country is right at about $76,000. They're saying that you need about 160% of the median household income in order to buy a three bedroom home. That's daunting and I think it's causing a lot of people to potentially make, I don't want to say dangerous but aggressive financial decisions that are putting them a little bit further on the risk spectrum I think than they probably ought to be.
- [02:44]
Brian Preston
I know we have tried to be very proactive on this and that's why if you go to moneyguy.com resources we actually have a home buying calculator. So this way you can come in. Yes, listen to this conversation we're about to give where we give you even more insight. But then later you can go back to our website and actually putting your specific numbers and see how this all lays out for you so you can make that good personal of personal finance decision to maximize this opportunity.
- [03:10]
Bo Hanson
So when it thinks about, when you think about buying a home, what are some of the things that you should do? Well, number one, we want you to think about our home buying rules. Again you can go to moneyguy.com resources, check out our whole home buying home, but we want you to recognize that there are a few rules that you should adhere to. I'm going to put, I'm going to make sure that I'm in this location for at least five to seven years. If it's my first home, I don't have to put down 20%, I can put down less. And maybe the most important one when it comes to affordability is that my housing costs cannot exceed 25% of my monthly gross income. And if I can answer those three questions for a home, I'm likely going to put myself in a sound financial decision. So one of the questions that people that I imagine you have is okay, we saw what data visual said, okay, based on what we think this is what the median income should be to be able to afford a home. But what about based on my income, how much income could I, should I have in order to afford a home or based on my income, how much home could I afford? And so we wanted to walk through a case study.
- [04:13]
Brian Preston
Oh, good old money guy case study. What would it be without us throwing some numbers into a spreadsheet? I love it.
- [04:18]
Bo Hanson
So we're going to assume that obviously we're going follow the money guy rules. We're going to assume that you have a 5% down payment. So you're going to whatever house you buy, you put down 5% and then we're going to assume that the prevailing interest rate right now is about 6.5% for a 30 year fixed mortgage, which I think is in line in most parts of the country. So then the question becomes, at different income levels, what size home does that mean that you could afford? And first, when we said, okay, what if you just make the median household income, $75,000 household income, what size home could you buy? With those assumptions, it's about a two, just under a $250,000 home.
- [04:53]
Brian Preston
I think a lot of those people, you need to move to the Midwest, right?
- [04:56]
Bo Hanson
Like that's. Yeah, obviously. What about if you have an income that's like $100,000 household, that would suggest that you could afford a home that's right at about $330,000. And then if your income is $125,000 a household based on the money guy rules, that would suggest that the home that you could buy would be about $409,000 for a home that you would be able to reasonably afford. Now, a lot of people say, Brian, this doesn't. Okay, I see it and I get it, I understand. But in my area, it's really hard to find homes in this price point.
- [05:31]
Brian Preston
This is one of those scenarios where it's hard for me because I'm an optimist on everything. And I'm still optimistic that something has to give because we can't have young people not being able to afford houses in the United States. So I don't know what that thing that gives, whether it's income outpacing inflation, where we get some equilibrium, because maybe real estate's not appreciating as fast as it was during that high inflationary period. But something has to give. But in the meantime, I do think that we can fall back on some key things. There's some takeaways. The first thing is it's okay, we share this all the time in the financial order of operations. We do want you processing through the steps, but it's okay to even take a step back. If you have key moments in your life, like you're trying to set roots in a community and you're trying to figure out, hey, do I need to boost up my emergency reserves so I can have that 3 to 5% down payment? It's okay if there's a moment in time that you actually have to take a step back on purpose to fulfill those life goals.
- [06:35]
Bo Hanson
And remember, money is nothing more than a tool that allows you to achieve the goals that you have. And so one of the things you really need to do is sort of right, set your goals. And a lot of people, they do have the goal of financial independence. That is something they want to work towards. But a lot of folks say that, hey, before I get to financial independence, I'd like to be a homeowner, right? And so if that's one of your goals, it's okay to use your savings, to use your strategy to move towards that goal, even if it's not necessarily progressing you through the food. That's okay if you're in that position. The other takeaway we want you to have is that now even though the, the traditional thinking was if you're going to buy home, you got to do 20% down, 20% down, 20% down. That's not necessarily true. If this is your first time home purchase, we think you can put down less. Now, that doesn't mean that you only have to put down the very minimum, only 3%. But you ought to play with the numbers. Based on your savings rate, the capital you've been able to accumulate, and the housing in your area, what's an appropriate and reasonable down payment? Maybe it's 10%, maybe it's 15, maybe it's 20. But you get to define that for yourself.
- [07:39]
Brian Preston
And then this is, this is the big thing. I want people to realize it's a difficult time right now. But a house doesn't have to define your financial security and your success financially. We have a number of clients, especially in these high cost of living areas in the coastal communities. You know, whether you're thinking about New York, whether you think about California, San Francisco, in those areas we have people who work, make great incomes. They build up a lot of financial independence through assets by investing and they never, they rent it. The entire process now. And even some of them buying their first home, we've, we've shepherded that process. Buying their first home when they move to a lower cost of living area, buy that dream home in retirement. You are not defined by just the house you live in. You can still create community even if you're paying rent on that. I know that this is less than ideal from what a lot of people start out thinking, but that's why I also say don't let your success. Too many Americans count on their house being their biggest financial asset. And BO, that has a big flaw to it. It is what we call a use asset. That's right. You can't eat your house.
- [08:49]
Bo Hanson
That's right.
- [08:49]
Brian Preston
You have to go take down more debt. You have to sell it. It's a very illiquid use asset. So build up your independence in those assets that we're always trying to help you build through the money guy show and specifically the financial order of operations.
- [09:05]
Bo Hanson
And we love helping you guys figure out how to do. That's why Every Tuesday at 10am Central, we like to show up right here and answer your questions, speak to the things that you are curious about. I think it's hilarious. Hilarious. That wasn't a good word. I think it's hilarious. The chat's coming in. People are really trying to decide if we're live right now. Is this pre record, Is this a premiere? What are these guys? Guys, this is live. This is live.
- [09:29]
Brian Preston
Given credit because I was like, guys, the data. And we didn't. There was even stuff that's kind of like in the brainstorming session that we didn't throw up. I was like, this almost feels like a show. But that was, but we did decide that it was so important that to get it out there because if it's a show, it goes on the editorial calendar. It's gonna take weeks, maybe a month to get out there. And this data was just too important. So no, indeed, we are live.
- [09:51]
Bo Hanson
We are live. And being live, we love to answer your questions live. So if you have a question that you would like for us to weigh in on, we have the team out in the wings collecting your questions because we believe that there is a better way to do money. So with that creative director Riby, I'm gonna throw it over to you.
- [10:09]
Riby
I'm ready. Colby P. Has a question to continue. Some talk about housing and affordability. It says I'm 23 and on step six of the food.
- [10:18]
Brian Preston
Wow.
- [10:18]
Riby
I'm saving for my first home in a high cost area. To keep my monthly payment at 25% of my income, I'd need to put 40% down. That is a lot. Would it be smarter to go ahead and put the 40% down up front or do 20% and then keep the rest in a high yield savings account paying a bit more each month. What do you think? Interesting concept or is he getting too fancy with it?
- [10:44]
Bo Hanson
Well, Colby, let's think through. Why do we do the 25%? Like why is that a thing that we, that we put into housing is because we don't want you to get into the situation where the cost of just keeping a roof over your head becomes so expensive that when that unknown, unknown thing happens, when there's a reduction in force, when there's a job change, when you get laid off, when something like that happens, that now all of the sudden you're in this spot where you're like, oh, I can't make next month's rent payment. I can't make next month's mortgage payment. It's why we want you to have a fully funded emergency fund that sits there as a fund for emergencies of three to six months of living expenses. And we want your housing to be at a reasonable cost that even if you had to pivot, even if you had to go do something else, that maybe is not the ideal thing for you to be doing. You could go out and hopefully create enough income, enough replacement income to be able to cover the cost of that housing. My nervousness, Brian, with him just putting down 20% and that balloons. The housing cost 35% or 40% of his monthly take home is that just doesn't leave a whole lot extra. It doesn't leave a lot left. You agree, Disagree, Want to find.
- [11:59]
Brian Preston
No, no. I. But there's. I have so many components. So when I saw Colby's question immediately, because we had a. We did a studio tour this probably two weeks ago. Nick. Nick and I did this studio tour, and great guy. And he was an attorney, and he was young guy, just like Colby sounds like he's a young guy doing big things. And he asked me some life questions about his career. And I was like, go find who the best person who does what you want to do. You know, let them mentor you, get some toolage under them. And he is like, but I'm probably gonna have to. I was like, and you might have to move to do that. He's like, oh, I'm house hacking. I just bought a duplex. And I'm like, this is something sometimes for younger people. Be careful. Colby trying at 23 to already try to fit the house solution in. Because the biggest thing sometimes as a young person, you can do. And I'll get to the answer of his question next. But I want to talk about the mindset stuff first. Is I think successful people. And Bo, you were guilty of this too. I was guilty of this. We're always trying to go through the checklist of life as fast as possible because we're so just used to being rewarded for being good and fast at life. But I'll tell you, there are certain decisions you might be making that. That is a mistake. And your career where you do your career where you. Because building that shovel of your. Your annual income is a big, big thing. So that's the first thing. And housing, by the way, locks you down. You lose. That's why, man, oh, man, do people panic when they lose their job and they realize they're in a high income situation and they might have to move to replace that income. How many people also as we're pulling people we were not. Not everybody's working from home like they were. They all moved to these different communities. And now the jobs are requires required to come back. And it's really creating some weird distress in the real estate marketplace as well. Just I would. Colby, I had to say that first because it's 23. You're still trying to probably figure out where you're landing on this job versus career. Now I get the feeling you might potentially have a career since you're already talking about step six at age 23.
- [14:03]
Bo Hanson
Must be doing all right.
- [14:04]
Brian Preston
That's pretty good. And that means you're probably making a strong enough income that this is the other thing I think financial mutants have struggled, especially financial mutants struggle with, is how do you free yourself to say it's okay to do something outside of just saving, saving, saving and building. And that's why I love 25% as a guiding light is because everything you make over that you can free yourself to say, I'll spend it, I'll consume it, I'll do something. Unless you. Now look, I'll get. Put the asterisk or the caveat. Because put the personal and personal finance. If you're part of the fire movement. Fine movement, next endeavor and you might be leaving at 45 or 50, well, of course you have to have a higher savings rate. But if you're going more of the traditional route, I'm okay with somebody making sure they're getting, you know, 25% saving. And then they want to. If you want to load it up so that, that you have that big down payment. Because it's exactly what Bo was saying. You just don't want to get in a desperate situation where you lose your job or some big life change happens. And now you have to start making big, desperate decisions because you really didn't have as much financial foundation underneath you as much as possible. Debt, specifically levered debt. And that's what mortgages, real estate investing it is. You're buying a very big asset for typically very minimal down. That's great. While markets are appreciating, that's great. While good times, rock and roll and incomes flowing in. But all of a sudden, when the music stops and everybody's trying to find their chairs, you find that that lever part, that the debt can get very dangerous very quickly.
- [15:36]
Bo Hanson
Can I just want to add. Reba, can I add one more thing? To this, I just think it's worth noting, colby, you're. You're 23, which I, who knows, maybe you've been working for, like, five, six, seven years. I'm going to assume this means you're, like, pretty early on in your career. And so even the thought around, like, making a housing choice right now, and I don't know if you're married, have kids, any other circumstances, but I just know for me personally, when I was 23, life just changed a lot from 23 to 28. Like, there's a lot of things that happen in there that impacted the type of housing that I desired, the location I wanted to be in, all of those things. And so if you're already at this young age trying to kind of like stretch to make buying a house work, it might be okay to just breathe and pause for a moment to make sure that when you make this huge, significant life decision, you're making it at the right time. And I can tell you this because I did this wrong. Like, a lot of what we share with you guys is us telling you mistakes that we made. I bought my first house way too young, when I had no business buying it, way before I should have. Like, it was just. It was a little foolhardy. And I look back on that, I thought, man, I put a lot of stress and a lot of pressure on myself unnecessarily. Where there were other solutions that I could have implemented that would have likely worked out just as well, if not better. So at 23 years old, I would just measure two or three times before you, like, plant that flag. You agree? Any wisdom?
- [17:04]
Brian Preston
No. Look, I wanted you to buy that house as fast as possible because that locked you in.
- [17:08]
Bo Hanson
Yeah, I couldn't.
- [17:10]
Brian Preston
He wasn't quitting to go somewhere else when he bought a house in the hometown where. Where my business was at that time.
- [17:15]
Riby
That was more of a Brian decision.
- [17:19]
Brian Preston
Consider that, too, is that there's a. There's the other side of it, is that's why you do need to be careful. Now, look, it's worked out swimmingly. Well, it's worked out for me as well. But I'm just telling you, you might want to think about that, too, is because it is a big life decision when you set roots and buy a house.
- [17:35]
Bo Hanson
Yep.
- [17:36]
Brian Preston
Hence the five to seven years in the home buying checklist.
- [17:39]
Bo Hanson
That's right.
- [17:39]
Riby
No, that's great, Colby. Great question. I hope that that helps shed some light on your decision making. Remember, we have a lot of great home buying resources@moneyguy.com resources we have a whole home buying checklist of what to do consider before you make that big decision. And also a home buying calculator, which we've discussed in the beginning portion of this show that will help you see how much home you can afford you.
- [18:00]
Brian Preston
You know what I like about this new set is Bo's drink is so close to me. No, no, no.
- [18:05]
Riby
Oh, I just stole his thunder beverage.
- [18:08]
Brian Preston
It was on my side. I think we could probably say this is pretty close to. You know, I think Bo plays a game. I think he plays a game. He waits until. Until I'm in the middle of an answer and then he tries to figure a time to pop the top on his drink. And I just saw it so close to my side. I was like, I'm putting an end to this craziness right now.
- [18:26]
Bo Hanson
I think, I think that that's, that's.
- [18:29]
Brian Preston
Now. Did you see how clean I did that? So I didn't get anywhere near your drinking area. I didn't want to.
- [18:33]
Bo Hanson
Fingers on there.
- [18:34]
Brian Preston
Bo is not a germ person. We could drop an M and M right now and he'd jump out there and eat it. So it's. He wasn't worried. I was more worried for him.
- [18:41]
Bo Hanson
My methodology is always finish my coffee first before I move to. To my other beverage. So I'm, it's more, it's more like an. You can call it like my drinking order of operations. I do this one first and then I move. It's. I call it the do.
- [18:53]
Brian Preston
I still think there's more strategy that goes into the timing of popping that top than he's letting on, though.
- [18:59]
Bo Hanson
Hey, can I do. Can I do a few housekeeping things? Of course we had. So if you guys. One, if you're not subscribed, you should subscribe right now to the channel so that we know you're out there. Because we have new content coming out almost every day of the week. On Mondays we have either reacts or Making a Millionaire coming out. And we just had a brand new REACT hit yesterday. And if you do not know what a red tail hawk sounds like, you're going to want to go check out that react so that you can understand what that sounds like.
- [19:31]
Riby
We also have and then also read the comments. So you know what he means.
- [19:35]
Bo Hanson
We also have Making a Millionaire that comes out every Monday. So if you're not subscribed, you haven't checked that out. We had one come out last week that was fan. You should go check this out. It's for millionaires. And minors in the making. And we're covering a wide swath. It's people right at the very beginning of their journey to people dead in the messy middle to people who have made it and are on the sweet side of the financial equation. So if you haven't checked that out, do that. Tuesdays we have our live streams. Wednesdays we have our little mini shows, our little compact heavy hitter shows. And then Fridays we obviously have the big show that comes out. So if you're not subscribed you, you should be so that you know every time we have.
- [20:09]
Brian Preston
Did you say the mini shows I did on Wednesdays? I cut those out last week.
- [20:12]
Bo Hanson
That's why I did this right now. So I wanted to make sure.
- [20:15]
Brian Preston
Good. Pick me up. By the way, it is interesting things you didn't know and you learned you're this many days old when you learned it is that the. We've been lied to our whole life. So we found out by just the comments section that what the sound we think for bald eagles which is the, you know, the whole. It's really a red tail hawk according to our audience in the comments section. And, and, and because they said a bald eagle actually sounds more like a crying baby. No, no, no, no, no. They said seagull. Oh seagull with it. And sure enough we went looked and it was, it was a little. And we have hawks around us all the time. And I love hearing, you know, you can tell when a hawk is. Is. Is in pursuit of something. This also another way now somebody fact check this because I'm doing this off memory. The MGM lion roar at the beginning is supposedly a tiger like the tiger's roar. So somebody fact checked that. But I've always been told that so how many other things have we been sound effects that that are being pumped in? Like I know it's this fight so if you watch a team. Oh that they don't. It doesn't really sound that way when you hit somebody. I mean but. But it's just interesting. These are things that make you go.
- [21:30]
Bo Hanson
Was it me and you? I promise we're gonna get back. Was it me and you a couple years ago where we went on that. We went on this deep rabbit trailer watching people make sound effects. Was that. Does that mean you were like. You watch a YouTube video and it shows you something.
- [21:42]
Brian Preston
He has other friends. I might have done that. We've done so many goofy things. I've already forgotten.
- [21:47]
Bo Hanson
Fact check it is a tiger. See, look at that.
- [21:50]
Brian Preston
Look at that. We've been lied to they lied to us about our finances too. So that's why we're here, to not only open up the curtain to the sound effects because our audience is smart too, but we're going to help you do that with finances. I love it.
- [22:05]
Riby
I love it. Somebody in the chat said will allow a red tail hawk kudos on the show.
- [22:13]
Brian Preston
Peaches and herbs.
- [22:17]
Bo Hanson
We told him before the show, don't bring this up.
- [22:19]
Brian Preston
No, I don't. Sang a little bar in that react video and none of you reacted. I was like, man, nobody knows that song. And then my team, my audience put that I didn't know that. Who sang that. I just knew the song from my childhood, you know, it was cool.
- [22:36]
Bo Hanson
He's about to start saying he was.
- [22:37]
Brian Preston
About the moment what didn't hit me.
- [22:40]
Riby
You'll have to go watch the react sing. I think you do the redtail hawk sound in the react as well, so.
- [22:46]
Bo Hanson
Oh yeah, it's really full of. If you want to see more Brian sound effects, you should go. You should go check out that react video.
- [22:52]
Brian Preston
I mean, I mean, let's see if I can do a seagull, AKA bald. Eee. Eee. It's not as good as the redtail.
- [23:03]
Bo Hanson
It doesn't evoke the same feeling.
- [23:06]
Brian Preston
Patriot Pete.
- [23:08]
Bo Hanson
That was his name.
- [23:09]
Brian Preston
Patriot Pete.
- [23:11]
Riby
Okay. Would you like to do another question?
- [23:14]
Brian Preston
Yeah.
- [23:14]
Riby
Are we ready?
- [23:15]
Brian Preston
Did we run off the entire audience?
- [23:17]
Bo Hanson
There's four people left in the live stream right now.
- [23:19]
Riby
There may be a few more people here listening still. All right. Shan has a question. It says, how do the money guys feel about selling the winners in a non tax advantaged brokerage account to fulfill the emergency fund steps? It feels like I'm cheating the food.
- [23:37]
Bo Hanson
In a non tax advantaged brokerage account to fulfill the emergency.
- [23:43]
Riby
So he must not have an emergency fund.
- [23:45]
Brian Preston
It sounds a bit non tax advantage. So it's an after tax account, selling the winners. But you gotta pay taxes on that.
- [23:53]
Bo Hanson
Yeah, yeah. If you. If so. Okay. If you do not have an emergency. If you do not have an emergency fund, Brown we hold the thing up. We have this nine step process called the financial order of operations where you do, you know, step one, then two, then three, then four. And step four is a fully funded emergency reserve. Well, a lot of people get it out of whack and they don't find the foo early enough in their journey. And they might have a big taxable account that has a bunch of invested assets. They've got mutual funds and stocks and ETFs and stuff like that. But they have a paltry emergency fund and they just have like this little emergency fund that might be just bridging you month to month or maybe one.
- [24:27]
Brian Preston
Or two months access to cash trap is what they got.
- [24:29]
Bo Hanson
That's right. And so in that situation, we will tell people, hey, you really ought to think about consider selling some of your brokerage assets so that you can fully fund that emergency fund. Now, whether you're selling winners or losers, in my opinion is sort of a. That's a non issue right here. The good news about selling losers as you get to harvest the losses. If you sell winners, then you have to pay capital gains. If you can sell some losers and some winners, you can net to zero. You can make it tax neutral.
- [24:58]
Brian Preston
But.
- [24:58]
Bo Hanson
But that is sort of. That's like a, that's like a side quest. The big thing here is if you don't have an emergency fund, you should, and you need to have one because you don't know when the unknown unknowns are coming your way.
- [25:11]
Brian Preston
You don't want to end up making a desperate decision just because you got cute with how you did your investments. And that's why I would say it's weird to say I'm going to sell my winners because that implies that there's probably some taxable gains. I'd rather you just be tax smart. And it's the same way when we have people come in as prospects and they become clients. We immediately try to figure out how do we get them where they need to be, but do it in the most tax advantage way. Now, that could come in several forms. We look at your entire portfolio and say, look, we got to get you off this access to cash because that's not as good as a fully funded emergency fund. And we're going to look and see what your losers are, your gains, what we think the prospects are going forward on these investments and make that choice. And then we might even take into account, hey, you have a bonus coming next month. Because maybe there's a timing element that fixes this as well. That's why you got to do this360. You got to look at all the components. It's hard to give you a rule and just say, yeah, go sell the winners. That just doesn't connect with all the different variables that go into good personal financial planning. It is the personal part of financial planning.
- [26:17]
Bo Hanson
And I want to be clear, the little last part of Shan's question says it feels like I'm cheating the foo by doing this. And I want to be clear, you're not. You're not cheating the foo. You got the foo out of order and you got lucky.
- [26:29]
Brian Preston
You did foolish, which we know is foolish.
- [26:31]
Bo Hanson
Yeah, there's no difference. Oh, I, I have this car that I've financed for 84 months, but I can afford. That's not. Not. No, that's. You just. You got out of. You got it out of order and you didn't get caught naked. But, you know, definitely some skinny dipping.
- [26:46]
Brian Preston
Probably going on there, though.
- [26:48]
Riby
All right, good answer. Shan. Thank you so much for submitting the question and for being with us on the live stream today. Burning Phoenix has a question next for you.
- [26:58]
Brian Preston
Oh, what was a Burning Phoenix sound like, I wonder?
- [27:00]
Riby
Oh, I don't know. It says if I've recently received a large pay increase, 50% plus, which is very exciting. Congrats. How long should I wait before considering my new pay for things like the 238 rule and the 25% housing rule? Should I wait a year, two years? How long?
- [27:26]
Bo Hanson
Well, I definitely want you to make sure that this new income is here to stay. If you're doing a math crime and you got like a sign on bonus and you're including your sign on bonus as part of your annual compensation, that's what's causing it to be a 50% increase. Well, that's obviously a temporary thing, but if this pay increase is legit and this job you've taken is legit and you have a reasonable belief that it will and should continue on, it's not a unique anomaly for this one year, then I think that you can start using it for the rules that we have, like 23, 8 or like your home buying rules. But if I just change jobs and I'm like, man, Brian, I just changed jobs. I got a 50% pay increase immediately I'm going to buy a more expensive house. That may be a little bit aggressive because generally when good things happen or when good things in your life go on, you want to think about the dynamic treadmill.
- [28:20]
Brian Preston
Well, but. But is the way the heart of that question was asked was actually looking for the opposite. Whereas you get the big pay raise and you say, hey, because my income is so much higher now, does it justify me to go ahead and boost up? Bigger car, bigger house? Because.
- [28:37]
Bo Hanson
Well, that's what I was saying. I think you got my opinion. You just changed.
- [28:40]
Brian Preston
He's got to look at his number. He's going to look at, he now has his higher income, but he's going to see the requirement to use that higher income. And it's going to be much higher than what he was making. So his assets haven't caught up. So he's probably feeling a little squeezed by that. And I think you're, you're on the same page is that look, I think that when it comes to consumption, I like the fact of slowing the role of making sure this sticks that way. Signing bonuses, RSU's, all these one off things that might be boosting income because you had a good year, but I do think that it's not uncommon. Like we look at the millionaire next door formula that we've talked about for years. That's where you take your income times your age divided by 10 and you figure out are your investments your net worth higher. And if it's twofold, you're a prodigious accumulator of wealth. If it's one time, then you're just an average accumulator and if it's under, then you're really behind the curve. Well, the problem is for somebody who's under 40 years of age, you just haven't had enough time for your assets to keep up. And that's why you'll see a lot of things even if you use our net worth dashboard tool. If you go to learn.moneyguy.com I think there's nothing wrong when you have huge pay raises and it skews your data, especially on your income versus your assets to do like a three year moving average to kind of moderate out or smooth out those huge income elements. But when it comes to consumption decisions, I want you to be as conservative as possible because it just scares me that you have a good year, you start making lifestyle choices, it could come back to bite you really quick.
- [30:17]
Bo Hanson
And again, I'd spread them out. I got a new job, I got a big pay raise. Let me enjoy this for a while. Okay, maybe now we want to upgrade. Let me enjoy this for a while. Okay, maybe now we want to upgrade the house. Okay, let me enjoy that for a while. Spread those things out, you get to have more happiness.
- [30:34]
Brian Preston
Good stuff should be spread out, bad stuff. Stack it in as fast as possible so you can get back to your copacetic, you know, level of happiness as fast as possible. That's the way the hedonic treadmill works. That's why lottery winners are horrible at this is they get a big windfall of money and they just go more, more, more, boats, houses, cars. And then they wake up one day and go, man, I just, where's the emotional fulfillment? I thought I was going to get out of that I like spreading out. Good decision, you know, good celebration moments like the new car, new house. Those things should have some distance between them so you don't smell the new car smell anymore before you move into the bigger house. That's where people screw that up all the time. Make the journey as rewarding as it should be as you reach these successful moments, don't stack it all in at once.
- [31:20]
Riby
Love that awesome Burning Phoenix. Thank you for the question.
- [31:24]
Bo Hanson
You want to hear something funny? Yeah, because apparently I get to see the chat, right? And like, apparently sometimes during the live chat, ads will pop up or whatever and people are. It looks like. And everyone is like affirming this. We just had an ad pop up for Bacon.
- [31:39]
Brian Preston
Bacon.
- [31:39]
Bo Hanson
Like Bacon. Like Bacon is advertising on the Money Guy channel. I'm for that.
- [31:44]
Brian Preston
It's like a specific brand of bacon.
- [31:46]
Bo Hanson
I don't know. But I just like, big bacon fan here on Brand.
- [31:50]
Riby
Oh, man.
- [31:51]
Bo Hanson
I'm just trying to say little things to affirm because people still don't believe that we are live right now. They think that this is like AI generated. Like we're. That's how we're doing the questions right now. This is real. This is us. I want you guys to know that.
- [32:02]
Brian Preston
Really. Okay.
- [32:06]
Bo Hanson
No, we are. This is us.
- [32:08]
Brian Preston
Oh, I'm here.
- [32:09]
Riby
If this is real life.
- [32:13]
Brian Preston
We just had a Making a millionaire guess that that made a reference on when she realized about debt paying off with the Matrix. And I thought it was a very. So we very well, you know, this.
- [32:24]
Riby
Could be the Matrix.
- [32:25]
Brian Preston
Yeah, exactly.
- [32:26]
Riby
Good to know. I'll watch out for that. All right. Michael C. Says, what is the best way to save up for large expected expenses that aren't necessarily emergencies? For example, living in an aging house and needing to replace the fence, the deck, the windows, etc. Thanks.
- [32:47]
Bo Hanson
I'll tell you, I love sinking funds. You know, the idea of a sinking fund is this is fund I put like sort of on the side for a known expense that's coming. And for most folks, in most circumstances, it's above and beyond in addition to my emergency fund. So if I know I have something coming up, like, man, okay, I've got the roof that I've got to replace, or I want to start saving for a new car, or there's something I know I'm going to have one of the things I might think there is, okay, Based on how much I want to save, based on the amount of money that I'm going to be putting towards my future self in the ideal scenario, I would save above and beyond that 25% for whatever that sinking fund is. So I, you know, I'm going to have to put a roof on. I'm going to start saving X number of dollars for X number of months so that when it's time to replace that roof, I've got the money there already mentally accounted for. Now, in the circumstance where your income or the living expenses or whatever creates an environment where it causes you to deviate from the 25% savings, that's okay so long as the goal is justifiable and you work through that adjustment period quickly. Meaning, okay, I gotta back down my savings a bit because I know I'm have to replace the roof. So I'm gonna save for that roof, but I'm gonna save as aggressively I can, as fast as I can. As soon as I get there, I'm gonna get right back on the savings train, get right back on the food. I think that known coming expenses are awesome and in my opinion way better than unknown coming expenses.
- [34:16]
Brian Preston
You said the key thing though. These, this needs to be in addition to your emerg. The trap I think financial mutants will fall into is that they will because this, this if you know, you have big like house down payment, car purchase, you know, replacing windows, you know, all the, all the things, AC unit, whatever the big upcoming expense is, it needs to be in addition to the emergency fund. That's why I liked you talking about sinking funds. Because the, the trap is if you have this, you know, this is coming up and then you have all these things happen where you buy a new car and then all of a sudden the AC goes out and you have to put the new eight $10,000 AC unit on. All of a sudden your emergency fund is less than three to six months. You've gotten yourself in that dangerous territory where you're making desperate decisions. So I don't want you to have a false sense of security where you are building up these sinking funds and you tell people, yes, I have three to six months saved up, but do you or have you just built up to cover these expenses that for sure are happening now? There are curveball things. We've had young people come to us and say, hey, I know five to seven years in the future I want to have a house down payment. So I'm going to go ahead and boost up. And you know, that's five years in the future. So probably some of that probably could go into that, that zone of emergency funds since you, this is a decision years in the future. But for Things like you said, like windows and you know, house repairs, cars, these things are for sure happening. So I think that they go into a addition of emergency funds so they don't deplete that and it's okay for.
- [35:48]
Bo Hanson
Them to send just a high yield savings account. I mean right now like money market mutual funds still paying above 4%. So if you even have a seeking fund, it's not like you have to like put it in the piggy bank. You can still have it sitting in an interest bearing account earning interest. It'd be silly not to do that.
- [36:03]
Riby
Yeah, fantastic. Well Michael C. Thank you for the question. I really hope that helps. As you think that through, Caleb S. Has a question. Up next. My wife and I are trying to plan for the future needs of a special needs child. We're on step eight of the foo. How do we plan for needs that are not fully known with a four year old with special needs?
- [36:29]
Bo Hanson
Again, this is one of those unknown unknowns. This is a life thing that happens. And obviously there are a number of different things you have to think through and consider but there are some financial implications you want to think about. Brian, you've talked about this a lot in terms of how you've navigated and thought that what was your mind. Mind process and thought process of you as you've kind of thought through.
- [36:51]
Brian Preston
You know, full disclosure, I don't have it all figured out because I think anybody who has a child that you know, their life is just different. There's a lot of elements to the. I want to go ahead and free you as the parent. I think sometimes especially as financial mutants we feel like we have to have it all figured out. Just free yourself from that. It's okay. Enjoy the journey because even though your child might not be able to do everything that you might have thought when you first had this, this awesome baby, there's still a special sweetness that comes from having the. Because the way they process the world is different. I know for my daughter is she's just a happy builder. I mean it's just, it's a really sweet thing. So I would you know I want, I want to mention some tools so you have something to use is able accounts are something that, that keep getting stronger and powerful because you know states are more coming online, they increase the thresholds but you do need to be aware of that. You know some key things happen with Social Security and so forth and benefits integration when your child becomes majority age that you need to know those limits. So that's why I want to tell you tools like Able and so I don't screw up the. What's the, what's the website I usually tell people to go research. It's like NS is it NR a a just type in national resource. Able BO will figure it out.org or something.
- [38:27]
Riby
Is it ablenrc.org it might be.
- [38:30]
Brian Preston
It's going to tell you all the different states and tell you which rich resources. But you can look into that. But you're going to probably need to definitely your estate planning is going to look different, your trust planning is going to be different. So I would just don't put it all on yourself at once. But just know over the coming years you're going to want to bring in an attorney to help you work through how your assets integrate because you have to plan for after you're not here. How do you structure it? Because I think our even with Able accounts, you have to be careful that you go out there and load up these assets because you want to make sure your child has assets when you're not here. Well, there's special structures. You have to do that so that you don't blow up some integration with benefits in the community and other things like that. I know that I hate when I give an answer that gave more I gave you breadcrumbs but it's just because all this is so personal because I don't know what your income, I don't know what your level of ass. There is a social safety net depending upon where you live in the country and all that has to be integrated into how you're planning and building your assets as well. So that's why I have to give you the it depends and that doesn't feel good. But hopefully I gave you some resources there.
- [39:37]
Bo Hanson
You said from. From a mindset standpoint because again it sounds like Caleb's child is 4 years old. I think what I've heard you say in the past is one of the things you did is you were more conservative in your assumptions, meaning that you planned to be able to more conservative assumptions, more aggressive in your saving. Like hey, I know this is what I would do otherwise because you know, I want to have retirement and do college for the kid and da da da da da da da. But because I recognize the weight that there's going to be someone I might have to take care of for longer than the standard trajectory, it just causes me to be a little more conservative in what I assume I'm going to have as a rate of return or timeline and be a little more aggressive in how much I save and how I fund that because. Because I'm saving for multiple retirements, not just mine and my wife's, but also for my kids. And so I think as you approach that and as you think about how you prioritize, it'll even inform decisions you make around where you live, what type of house you live in, the kind of automobiles that you purchase.
- [40:34]
Brian Preston
And I would say at four years of age, you do need to make big life decisions. Like, we moved so my. By the time my daughter started kindergarten, so we can have this special school system that she. This special school. But it's still. We had a good public school system for my oldest daughter, and then we moved to this. This area. So there was a special school for my youngest. And that at the time, I think. And this is. I want to say, share this experience. Share. So that Caleb can hear this for themselves. I thought this was gonna be the silver bullet. You know, you find this brilliant school, you pay a fortune for it, and you think this, this is going to fix. Because I still was in the thought that I could find a silver bu that would fix the issue. It didn't fix it, but it gave me peace of mind knowing that I had checked the box and done the best I possibly could to let my daughter become the best version of herself. And there's a peace that comes when, you know, you through the kitchen sink at giving happiness, giving resources to something. But I just want to prepare as a parent who's gone through this journey and now she's 15, I've got a whole other journey of decisions we have to make on as she approaches adulthood, which is not going to be the easiest thing and actually gives me pause. But it's just part of the journey. But I just tell you, you don't have to feel like if you're trying to solve it, you'll get peace. It's amazing, the ability of the human mind to build comfort and peace and find a copacetic level of happiness from. From this hard journey. And you'll have dark days, but you'll have good days, but you're gonna make it through this, and we'll continue. I mean, I know we've done some resources. I don't know if they're out to the public, because we were still working on the scenes, but there's been things.
- [42:19]
Bo Hanson
Stuff in the background.
- [42:20]
Brian Preston
We got some stuff in the background that will hopefully be able to help people like Caleb. As you're trying to figure out to make sure you are giving your child the best opportunity possible financially as well as through life. It's great.
- [42:32]
Riby
That's great. Thank you for sharing, Caleb. Thank you for asking the question and being here on the live stream today too. All right, ready for the next one?
- [42:40]
Bo Hanson
Yes, ma' am.
- [42:41]
Riby
Coco for Otoro asks, I had, I had to dip into my emergency fund and now I'm struggling to build back up my emergency funds. I've paused investing, but should I continue doing both? I'm nervous about missing out on ABB or always be buying. Thanks money guy team.
- [43:01]
Brian Preston
But she kind of answered this question right there with the way she asked that.
- [43:07]
Bo Hanson
Here's my opinion. You got to get the emergency fund back. Like, like as much as we want you building, as much as we want you to have your dollars working for you, your emergency fund. Brown, will you hold the thing up? There's a reason that outside of employer match emergency fund exists before all of the other saving, all of the other building, all of the other growing. So Coco, what I would tell you to do is man, get so creative and how you can get step four fully funded as quickly as possible. It might be cutting your expenses down to the quick. I mean, it might be cutting out Netflix, cutting out eating out, cutting out the subscript, whatever those things are to get your footprint as small as possible, to be able to fully fund that, get that done and then you can get back on the savings side. Or you might be in a situation where, hey, okay, I got to go figure a way to increase my income, whether it be through my current vocation or a side gig, side hustle, picking up something on the weekends, whatever that thing might be. Those are really your only two expenses if you want to speed up your timeline. You either have to spend less, get your footprint down, or you have to make more, increase your income to be able to do that. But what you don't want to do is have yourself be in a situation where you don't have cash. Because when you don't have cash, it puts you in the place where you do make desperate decisions and you end up in step number three, we'll probably hold the thing up again, you end up in step number three, high interest debt. Because you know what people do when they don't have cash and have a mercy fund? They just start to swipe. And that is a hole that gets deeper and deeper and deeper. We have a great slide illustration that we're going to show at some point in the future that really drives home just how detrimental compound interest can. It's one the of Brian's or how detrimental compound it should be when it works. To get just one of Brian's favorite illustrations we've done, I'm super excited.
- [44:53]
Brian Preston
Coco answered their own question. And the fact that that first sentence was, I used some of my emergency fund, but I'm having trouble getting it filled back up. Well, that. That shows me that your income is not at such a level. And the savings rate that it lets you take that emergency fund and put it right back in there, it's taking you some time to build up. That means that you're susceptible or in the danger zone, that if something bad happened, you'd have to make a desperate decision. And that's the part that's catastrophic. Beau just hit on it. Is that when you see that credit card debt is over 20%. When you see that, what typically, whether it's medical emergencies or a car accident or it's these things that you're not counting on and I just don't want you to fall prey to, you know, because we're financial mutants. We always want to maximize. We're trying to look for opportunities, but you're running astray if you. If you move on too soon without fixing this. You got to triage your situation. But use harness the energy of your frustration that it's taking you a while to do the things that Beau was talking about, the two levers, whether it's make more income, cut your expenses so that you feel the pressure, you feel that the time, because that's the most valuable resource that you're also missing, missing out on. It's not only the potential to hit the high interest rate, it's also that you have a timer in the background of every month that you don't invest that should elevate. That should feel bad. So that keeps you motivated to be the best version of yourself to get out of this as fast as possible. So harness that negative feeling to get serious, to pinpoint laser focus and get yourself back on the track as fast as possible. Love it.
- [46:36]
Riby
That's great. Coco 4 Otoro. Thank you for the question. Ken B's question is up next, by the way.
- [46:44]
Brian Preston
Cocoa. Is that or is that just like coconut?
- [46:47]
Riby
I don't know. Honestly.
- [46:49]
Brian Preston
Okay.
- [46:50]
Riby
Yeah, could be.
- [46:51]
Brian Preston
Either way, I know some Cocos. That's why I jumped to that. But then I was like, I have a lot of drinks I like that are cocoa, you know, coconut inspired. So it could be that too.
- [47:00]
Bo Hanson
All this is going on in your mind, wasn't it?
- [47:02]
Brian Preston
Well, we're going on a cruise this summer. Oh, of Course so many cruise videos recently and, and every drink it seems like in the Caribbean has coconut which I love. You can never get enough. Just like lime is great, coconut's great. You put those things, there's lots of opportunity lime.
- [47:19]
Bo Hanson
And we were all thinking are you one of those people who before you go on a trip like when you book a cruise you're going to go to a place, are you like even after you've booked it, are you then the person like I'm going to watch the YouTube video, I'm going to read every tripadvisor.
- [47:34]
Brian Preston
And I think half the fun is the preparation.
- [47:36]
Bo Hanson
I bet you you probably spend as much time looking at research and thinking about the trip.
- [47:41]
Brian Preston
There's so many things in my life, big purchases. I will over research it to the nth degree. I mean I had a dear client, she's passed away. But me and her husband, we talk about her all the time. Is that she, me and her had a common ground because they wanted to buy an RV and forever she we were talking about all the research that she was doing on these art and I was like, you actually enjoy the shot. The research is more than. So it makes me just thinking about it because I'm very much the same way. So I of course when I'm going it's just like I'm going to Epic Universe in the next week.
- [48:14]
Bo Hanson
Let's go.
- [48:15]
Brian Preston
So I mean I know you don't know theme parks are our jam too. So I just told you cruise ships, theme parks. This is if you want to increase your opportunity to probably run into me in the wild. Those are the two places you have to be. And I've watched. I'm worried I've over prepared for Epic Universe. I've watched some videos I probably shouldn't have of the ride experience but I can't wait.
- [48:37]
Bo Hanson
I've not heard one person say who's experienced it now that it's under delivered.
- [48:40]
Brian Preston
You know what I mean?
- [48:41]
Bo Hanson
So like even, even if you worry.
- [48:43]
Brian Preston
The crowd level is going to be high. I was like how did we not go to one of the pre days? But we didn't. So we're gonna just go in with the huddled masses and see how this thing goes.
- [48:52]
Bo Hanson
It's what I almost feel like I get to live vicariously through him. Like I get to experience it in seeing his excitement. Then when he comes back I get to hear all about it. It's. I think it's awesome.
- [49:01]
Riby
Big reasons like being there.
- [49:03]
Brian Preston
It's almost like so if you're an Epic universe. In the coming week, we might cross paths.
- [49:08]
Riby
You know, we have for Brian Preston in the wild.
- [49:10]
Bo Hanson
We ought to get you one of those. What's. It's not called a selfie stick, but whatever. The thing is that holds the GoPro, the stick you walk around with and just have you walking around the theme park that way. That would be. Wouldn't that be good?
- [49:22]
Brian Preston
Without it, Wouldn't that be good? I would love to do that because I watch so much of that type of content. But I'm so worried. If y' all knew me personally, I don't take a lot of pictures.
- [49:33]
Bo Hanson
This is not your thing.
- [49:34]
Brian Preston
I don't. Because I'm always trying to just enjoy the moment.
- [49:36]
Bo Hanson
You're taking.
- [49:38]
Brian Preston
Very deliberate to say, okay, let me. And I don't even know if I could do it. I mean, the old man side of me might kick in, but it's. I don't know.
- [49:49]
Bo Hanson
We'll see.
- [49:49]
Brian Preston
I do want to burn the channel. Who knows?
- [49:51]
Riby
Maybe one day. All right, are you ready to go to Ken B's question?
- [49:56]
Bo Hanson
Yes, ma' am.
- [49:58]
Riby
It says, I'm 33 years old making 120k in Indiana.
- [50:02]
Brian Preston
Wow, Nice.
- [50:03]
Riby
I'm looking to go to graduate school in three years. Indiana has a very generous 529 tax credit of 20% on state income. Does this move up the foo with tax savings? Meaning should he prioritize the 529? I believe that's a state credit.
- [50:23]
Brian Preston
So credit is different than deduction.
- [50:25]
Bo Hanson
So India has a very generous 500 tax credit on 20% on state income as more of the food tax. So I'm not going to research this right now on the spot. 20% sounds a bit. Or maybe the 20% of the contribution you get to write off your state tax.
- [50:42]
Brian Preston
I'd have to know what you read it.
- [50:43]
Bo Hanson
I'd have to know what it is. But the question is to say there's a tax incentive around me saving for this thing. This is less of a fu question and more of how are you going to pay for a thing Question meaning, like, hey, if I go to three.
- [50:57]
Brian Preston
Years is less is short term.
- [50:58]
Bo Hanson
Yeah. Like, if I go to a restaurant, am I going to pay with cash? Am I using my credit card? I'm going to use a gift card. That's kind of the way we're thinking about this. If you're going to pay for grad school anyways, and the way that you're going to pay for it is you're going to cash flow it. You're going to come out of pocket, by all means, you should definitely think about doing that in the most advantageous way possible. And so if using a 529 is just a short term conduit, I put money in and then I pull money out so I can take advantage of the tax deduction, there is nothing at all wrong with that. We actually see a lot of people do that who still, even while their kids are in College, will fund 529s current year and then take distributions the same year because they want to continue to get that state tax benefit. So it's really, the thought process is less. Should I use the 529? It's okay. If I'm going to go to grad school, what are the most optimal ways for me to pay for this? And should I pay for all the semester up front or do I pay for it monthly or as it goes on? Are there costs associated? Those are the things that I would be thinking through.
- [51:57]
Brian Preston
I'll answer it in the, in the context that Ken asked it and the fact that I think that where this fits into the financial order operations, obviously, you know, things that are coming up in the next three years should be boosted levels of your, of your emergency fund. But then once you have the money allocated and saved, now this becomes more of a financial mutant. Question is how do I maximize the structure to get as much money as possible? Because remember, as a financial mutant, your money should go, you know, 3, 5, 7% further than your peers because you're just willing to do stuff that everybody else won't do. And I think this is part of it, is that yeah, if you have to take some of your cash that you saved up for graduate school and you're gonna go throw it into a 529 even though it's only gonna be there for a short period of time to maximize a tax benefit, do it. I mean that is just financial mutant 101 is. I mean there's so many things in my life, whether it's stacking up, how I make big purchases to see if they take credit cards or something. Because I just, I like if I can make 2%, if I can make 3% here and there, that stuff adds up. As long as it's also built into the context of it didn't break the cash rule. Because I really do want you to respect emergency reserves.
- [53:11]
Bo Hanson
Can I throw one thing out there that's a hot take and this is one of those things. It's like bo, don't say it, don't go There, don't bring it up, but I'm going to do it. Well, I'm just. Here's what I hear. You're 33 years old, you're making $120,000 a year, which is awesome, and it's incredible. And so one of the questions that I would ask you, and I just want to make sure you've done this analysis, is, hey, I'm going back to grad school. What's the why behind going back to grad school? Now, it may be, hey, I just want to increase my education and that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that if it's something you place value on. But I would do an ROI calculator. Like, is going back to grad school going to add some utility that's going to justify not only the cost but also the time it's going to take away from me? At this stage, a lot of people, again, this is my opinion, so write this down in pencil. They will end up defaulting to higher education without really thinking through, okay, why am I doing this? Is this actually going to add tangible value to something I'm trying to accomplish down the line? Whether it be increased education, whatever it is, or additional pay later on in life, I just don't want you to say, okay, well, hey, I've done a lot and just grad school is the next thing, and I'm going to go check the box. I want there to be a reason why you're going to take on this additional commitment, additional cost, additional time. And just like everything else, any financial decision you make, you want to make sure the roi, however you define that, is justified.
- [54:34]
Brian Preston
No, I agree. I think that's a good point because I've given advice, real life experience. I've had financial planning people or people with finance degrees, but then they needed to go be eligible, except for the cfp. And they're like, I can go back and get a master's. And I'm like, or you could do it this way, which would be more cost effective. But then I think about, like, Jonah here, I told him, go back. Yes, because I want you to be able to sit for the CPA exam. Go do that last year of school, even though, you know, we know where you. You're gonna start working.
- [55:03]
Bo Hanson
Yep.
- [55:03]
Brian Preston
I still would love for you to go do that extra year so that you could be eligible for the CPA exam and the other requirements. So it really is, it's, it's more of a personalized decision. But make sure the why intersects and because, look College has gotten expensive.
- [55:19]
Bo Hanson
It's gotten real expensive.
- [55:19]
Brian Preston
So you better make sure. That's why big hack I tell people is go check out community colle colleges and other things. Your, your diploma will look the same as somebody who went four years at that expensive school versus two years. You have to pay attention to the cost. And that's why if you're, if you're running up more student loan debt than what you're going to make when you come out of school, that, that ROI component gets really scary. And I love education. Everybody knows that. I always tell people when I give speeches, I consider education the ladder of opportunity because you can start from the humblest of places, but you if, if you just, if your brain works in a great way and you can educate yourself to do things, but we have to be careful that it doesn't. People don't use that goodwill of education and the opportunity it creates that they've created these profit centers or costs that now are disconnected. It's all back to intrinsic value. If you're paying something more than what it's worth, it's just hard to get ahead. So as a person who loves education, has worked in education and done things for years, I just want you to be educated as you make those decisions. Measure twice so that you don't fall into a trap.
- [56:25]
Bo Hanson
Love that.
- [56:27]
Riby
Fantastic. Ken B. We really appreciate you being here during the live stream and asking that question. And as always, we hope it helps. Want to do one more from Wes?
- [56:36]
Brian Preston
All right, let's see what Wes has got.
- [56:38]
Riby
It says my company has a very generous stock purchase plan with a 15 discount. How does this fall within the foo.
- [56:48]
Bo Hanson
Man, I'm Wes. I'm so glad you asked this. I dropped my sticky notes, but I remember the question. I'm so glad you asked this because people ask us all the time. Hey, I have this employee stock purchase plan and for those of you that don't know what this means is that every month or every pay period or every quarter, I'm allowed to defer some of my salary, some of my pay, and I can actually buy stock in the company for whom I work, which is a pretty neat thing. And not only can I buy stock in the company, they're actually going to sell me, sell it to me for less than it's worth. They're going to give me a 15% discount. So if our stock price is 100 bucks, I get to go buy it for $85. It's a pretty.
- [57:27]
Brian Preston
But wait, there's more. A lot of them will choose the lowest of either the beginning of the quarter or the end of the quarter. So sometimes it's even bigger than a 15% discount. Keep going.
- [57:38]
Bo Hanson
And so then the question becomes, okay, well how do I think about this? Well, so when I hear 15% discount on something that's like readily, you know, readily available and easily liquid, to me, Brian, that sounds a lot like.
- [57:51]
Brian Preston
Step number two.
- [57:52]
Bo Hanson
Step number two. What's the step number two?
- [57:53]
Brian Preston
That get that free money.
- [57:54]
Bo Hanson
There it is.
- [57:55]
Brian Preston
Get that free money. Now there is a caveat of course, is that what do we share with people? When you have your human capital, that's your hours and your wages, don't we need to keep that separated from your investment capital over the long term? Because you're just running a risk. If you put all of everything with your employer plus your wages, there is a risk.
- [58:16]
Bo Hanson
You need to have a plan. So we love espps and we tell people take advantage of them to the full extent. But what we don't want you to do is becoming so overly concentrated that you've got the ESPPS and maybe you also have RSUs and maybe you also have options to where all of your liquid wealth is tied up in your company. Because exactly what Brian said, you're now concentrated in the company, both from a human capital as well as a liquid capital standpoint. So if you are going to participate, you ought to have some strategy. Okay, I'm going to do the ESPP, but once I hit 18 months or whatever your plan requires and I hit that qualifying disposition, I'm going to begin selling that off. Or maybe if you don't even have the requirement to hold. We know a lot of folks who will buy the ESPP today, immediately sell it. They're going to pay the ordinary income down the discount, but they're still going to be in a better situation having sold that because they were able to take advantage of the 15% discount. So just make sure whatever your circumstance is, you have a plan for how you're going to navigate that moving forward. But I love espps. I think they are certainly worth taking advantage of.
- [59:16]
Brian Preston
No doubt.
- [59:17]
Riby
That's great. Thank you for the question. Wes, like Bo said earlier, you're missing out. If you don't subscribe to the channel, let us know you're out there watching and can stay up to date on all of the content that we're releasing throughout the week. Whether it's financial advisors to reacts, making a Millionaire mini shows or our classic chock full episode all about personal finance and hopefully giving you a little more of that confidence so you can focus on what really matters, not just all the dollars and cents. So thank you for being here as always. We're so glad we get to do this with you every Tuesday at 10am Central.
- [59:50]
Brian Preston
So what y' all don't know is, behind the scenes, we actually had three people sitting in the studio today, live studio audience, mix of interns, new hires. Kind of fun thinking about because Bo and I got to give the whole abundance cycle speech. And I just. I think it's worth mentioning we do not take for granted that we get to come and hang out with you every week, multiple times a week now, and we load you up, give you as much free stuff, and you guys fulfill the abundance cycle in quantity. You know, we have planted the seeds. You know, where our heart lies is the heart of educators. And you show up and consider going and hiring us. And I appreciate every one of you who goes to aboundwealth.com and does the work with us. It really just. It keeps this thing going, and we don't take it for granted one bit. So we'll take advantage of all the free stuff@moneyguy.com resources. It's legit, and we want you to lean into that as much as possible, because what I love about the heart of the abundance cycle, you can do this for years, and you're gonna know this works because we have no ask until you actually reach a level of success, that your financial life actually gets complicated. Now, we've had quite a few questions today that have highlighted the thing we share all the time is that money is a tool. It's not the goal. If you don't have your why lined up and understand what you're actually building for, I think you're gonna find it's just not fulfilling. It's just not gonna let you maximize this life that we have. And we're gonna keep leaning into that and loading you up. I'm your host, Brian Preston. Mr. Bo Hanson. Money Got Team out.
- [61:29]
Bo Hanson
The Money Guy show is hosted by Bryan Preston and Bo Hanson. Brian and Bo are partners with Abound Wealth Management. Abound Wealth Management is a registered investment advisory firm regulated by the securities and Exchange Commission. In accordance and compliance with the securities laws and regulations, Abound Wealth Management does not render or offer to render personalized investment or tax advice through the Money Guy Show. The information provided is for informational purposes only, may not be suitable for all investors, and does not constitute financial, tax, investment, or legal advice. All investments involve a degree of risk, including the risk of loss.