The Playbook to Build Wealth With An Average Income

Summary

Money Guy Show: "The Playbook to Build Wealth With An Average Income"

Hosts: Brian Preston & Bo Hanson
Date: April 1, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of the Money Guy Show dives into strategies for building meaningful wealth on an average income. Brian and Bo debunk the notion that high salaries are a prerequisite for financial success, offering a practical, stepwise "playbook" rooted in both defensive and offensive financial tactics. With signature humor and relatability, they address real listener questions, tackle common financial decisions, and blend in the fun of April Fool’s shenanigans.

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Main Discussion Points & Key Insights

1. Building Wealth Is Possible for Everyone

• Theme: Wealth isn’t reserved for high earners; it lies in consistent, smart actions applied over time.
• Median Income Reality: Median U.S. household income is under $84k. Many feel it’s “tight,” but wealth is still attainable with a plan ([01:08]).
• Quote:
  “Even if that describes you... it is still possible for you to build meaningful wealth.”
  — Brian ([01:08])

2. Defining Your Financial “Win”

• Know what wealth means for you personally; set clear, quantifiable goals.
• Fire Community Example:
  “Once they know what their objective is... they’re able to really dive in.”
  — Bo ([01:32])

3. The Defensive Playbook (The Boring Stuff That Matters)

• Emergency Reserves:
  • The foundational safety net; prevents desperate decisions leading to debt ([04:00]).
  • Decide between 3 or 6 months’ worth based on stability and risk.
• Health Insurance:
  • Don’t “skinny dip” (skip or under-insure); medical debt is a leading cause of bankruptcy ([04:48]).
  • Avoid high deductible plans if they exceed your ability to pay.
• Reliable Transportation:
  • Buying flashy cars kills progress. Follow rules (like 23/8 for car loans) to avoid “financial napalm” ([05:36]).
• Budgeting:
  • Track every dollar—“83% of Americans say they overspend” ([06:38]).
  • Creating and tracking a budget reveals waste and opens up margin for wealth building.

Notable Quote

“Defense wins championships. Well, that’s true when it comes to your personal finances as well.”
— Brian ([03:25])

4. The Offensive Playbook (Growing the Pie)

• Enhance Your Skills:
  • There’s never been more access to free/affordable upskilling (YouTube, blogs, podcasts, etc.) ([07:00]).
• Monetization & Opportunity:
  • “Find the edge” in your field or pursue higher-paying locations/jobs when possible ([07:32]).
• Persistent Action:
  • Consistent, early investing—however small—leverages time for immense growth (“$1 at age 20 grows to $88 by retirement” — [08:25]).

Notable Quote

“Even with little margin, you can still build meaningful wealth over the long term.”
— Brian ([08:45])

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Listener Q&A Highlights

5. Should I Raid Retirement to Buy a Home?

Egg, Bacon and Cheese: 40yo, $104k income, $450k in retirement, house for >5yrs ([14:29])

• Hosts: Both Strongly Advise Against.
• Reasoning:
  • Retirement accounts are for retirement; pulling out now faces big penalties/taxes and robs your future compounding ([14:57]).
  • Instead, scale goals to your resources—follow the “3, 5, 25” rule: you need 3% down, commit for 5 years, and keep housing <25% of gross income ([18:08]).
• Quote:
  “Don’t do it, because your future self will thank you for the discipline. Find another way.”
  — Brian ([17:19])

6. Choosing Jobs for Benefits—Is HSA a Must?

Stoney13: 26yo, $60K income, 25% saving, new job, HSA availability ([21:21])

• Takeaway:
  Benefits are a “topping, not the main course.” Prioritize job culture, trajectory, and fit over specific benefits. HSA is great, but don’t let it drive your career choice ([21:39], [22:54]).

7. Helping Others Get Started Budgeting

Quilt Audit: Helping a church friend with budgeting ([25:28])

• Step 1: Prepare a net worth statement (assets vs. debts)
• Step 2: Review a month’s spending—bank or credit card statements
• Step 3: Identify “margin,” then implement the Financial Order of Operations ([26:02]).
• Resource: Free templates at moneyguy.com/resources ([26:03]).

8. Convincing a Risk-Averse Spouse to Invest

Jim: No debt, 2 years’ expenses in cash, maxing IRA ([29:20])

• Approach:
  Show the time value of investing: staying in cash feels safe but actually risks purchasing power (inflation) and makes wealth goals unreachable until much later ([30:51]). Use math and vision for motivation.
• Quote:
  “What feels safe in the short term can actually be risky in the long term.”
  — Brian ([29:40])

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Sports/Mullet Theme: “Business up front, party in the back.” — running mullet & mustache jokes for April Fool’s ([09:14], [10:18])
• “I can't grow a mustache, but I can sure wear some glasses.” — Bo ([10:32])
• “Invest in yourself...one of the best things you can do.” — Brian ([23:26])
• “You’ve taken valuable soldiers in your army of dollar bills off of the battlefield.” — Bo, on 401k loans ([51:41])

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Rapid Fire: Notable Questions & Answers

(Rapid-fire segment starts [33:45]; main points below)

• Roth vs Traditional 401k when maxing out?

  • Bo: “If you’re able to save at that level, likely you’re higher income—do pre-tax.”
  • Brian: “Majority (lower incomes) benefit from Roth, but for the top 10%, pre-tax makes sense.” ([34:43]-[45:17]).

• Public Transportation as Reliable Car Alternative?

  • Strongly supports it where available but both admit regional (U.S. South) bias/lack of firsthand experience. Only about half of Americans have real access; it is great where feasible ([35:19], [46:48]).

• Pay Off Mortgage or Student Loan First?

  • Both: Student loan (6.1%) trumps mortgage (3.25%) due to interest differential ([40:09]).

• When to Tax Loss Harvest?

  • When you have losses in your taxable accounts that can be offset ([41:19]).

• Handling Mileage Reimbursement?

  • Use apps, automate, and always track what you’re entitled to ([42:07]).

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Specialized Topics

Employee Stock Purchase Plans (ESPP) in the Financial Order of Operations ([53:17])

• If plan offers a discount (e.g., 15%), it’s “free money”—take full advantage.
• Use systematic selling to minimize risk of overexposure to your own employer’s stock.

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Lighthearted & Community Moments

• Discussion of mustache and mullet fashion resurgence, including audience polls and social media antics ([9:14], [24:52]).
• Banter about past costume episodes, admin team pranks, and Money Guy’s fun work culture ([11:01], [43:47]).
• Listener stories: travel hacks (gate checking bags), Universal Studios roller coasters, and financial mutant moments ([57:09], [58:43]).

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Resources & Calls to Action

• Free calculators, templates, and frameworks: moneyguy.com/resources
• Money Guy Discord (“Moneyverse”): Community for ongoing Q&A and mutual support
• Join the team: Opportunities at moneyguy.com/join-the-team

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Episode Wrap-Up

Despite the humor and April Fool’s antics, this episode’s backbone is a serious, step-by-step approach to wealth building on an average income. From practical budgeting and defense, to skill-building offense, and listener-specific guidance, Brian and Bo deliver a “playbook” that empowers listeners at any income level. Along the way, they remind us that personal finance can—and should—mix consistency, clarity, and a little bit of fun.

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Listen, laugh, and start building your own financial playbook—because even with average income, wealth is within reach!

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• [01:08] — Building wealth with an average income: It’s possible!
• [04:00] — Defensive Play: Emergency fund, insurance
• [07:00] — Offensive Play: Upskilling, monetization
• [14:29] — Retirement account withdrawal for house?
• [21:21] — Job benefits vs job fundamentals
• [25:28] — Helping someone start budgeting
• [29:20] — Convincing spouse to invest
• [33:45] — Rapid fire Q&A
• [53:17] — ESPP & order of operations
• [57:09] — Universal Studios & travel hacks

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“We really do believe that there’s a better way to do money.” — Brian ([11:01])

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[C]

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[A]

Hunters, Haja Boy's breakfast meal and Hunt Trick's meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that, Rumi?

[C]

It's not a battle. So glad the Saja boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day.

[A]

It is an honor to share.

[C]

No, it's our honor.

[A]

It is our larger honor.

[C]

No, really, stop.

[A]

You can really feel the respect in this battle. Pick a meal to pick a side.

[C]

Ba da ba ba ba.

[A]

And participate in McDonald's while supplies last foreign.

[C]

To build wealth with an average income.

[A]

Brent, I am so excited to talk about this because we say that building wealth is available to everyone. And we really do believe. We really do believe that. We really do mean that. And there's a lot of people out there that don't have huge incomes. They don't have the six figure incomes. And we think that even if that describes you, even if that's where you are right now in your financial journey, it is still possible for you to build meaningful wealth.

[C]

So let's reach people where they actually are. If you look at where the median income is per household here in the United States, it's a little under $84,000. Now, look, I get it because we used household, so that means for if you're married, that's two people. Yeah. It's going to be tough. And a lot of people are going to be out there telling you you can't do it at all. I think you can. It is doable if you have a plan.

[A]

Yeah. You have to understand if. If you want to win the game, you have to describe for yourself what winning looks like. You have to decide, okay, this is what the number looks like for me to be able to live the life that I want to live on my terms and do the things I want to do. And we got to give credit where credit's due. The fire community has done a wonderful job of this. Once they know what their objective is, once they've defined what the goal is, what the win is, they're able to really dive in and able to like, stay sort of laser focused on moving in that direction. But I think the average American hasn't quite figured that.

[C]

Yeah, I remember we did a Making a Millionaire with, with Danielle. And this is the thing. I love this idea that she had where she was doing Coast Fire, where we were like, hey, you can do this. Where, hey, why don't we show you what you need to save and be hot and heavy with the discipline so that you can, down the road, take your foot off the accelerator and actually make this retirement in this financial plan work.

[A]

And what, what we showed her was like, okay, once the objective was clear, like once we said, okay, this is what you have to do, and if you do this, then you'll end up here, it made it much easier for her to think, okay, I can execute. And the same is true for you and your financial life, whether you're someone with a high income or low income. But we want to specifically speak to those folks who may be. Feel like things are tight right now. Things aren't. There's not a ton of excess sitting around. When you think about where your earning power is right now, we want to kind of walk you through what the plan looks like and how you should think about it. And we thought about a little, a little bit of a sports analogy because we think that when it comes to, especially if you have limited resources, the thing that you have to focus on first, and this may be a little bit counterintuitive, is you have to focus on defense. Now, it may not be sexy, it may not be super exciting, but you've heard the expression defense wins championships. Well, that's true when it comes to your personal finances as well.

[C]

Well, the first thing in defense is your emergency reserves, because this is the margin for making those desperate decisions that get you into debt, get you high interest credit cards, and all the other bad things that lead to you being stuck and not getting out of the starting blocks of building wealth.

[A]

Yeah. You need to define, okay, what is my emerg emergency fund? Is it three months? Is it six months? How do I decide? And then how do I get that in place? Because exactly what Brian said, if you don't have that first step in place, it's really easy for you to get derailed. Now the other, the next thing, when it comes to defense, and this is one that we want to make sure, especially at lower incomes, it becomes. It becomes tempting to try to skirt this one or try to get around. We've seen young people that really like to. Kind of like to fly naked. Not. Not fly naked. Swim naked when it comes.

[C]

Skinny dip.

[A]

Yeah, they like to skinny dip when it comes to health insurance. But we know that a lot of bankruptcy and a lot of financial. Financial failure is due to medical expenses. Unknown unknowns coming your way. So we want to make sure that if you have a low income, don't just decide, okay, I'm going to go with the cheapest health insurance possible. I have the highest deductible possible because it does you no service. If you have a health insurance plan in place, but it has a $15,000 deductible, there's no way you could even possibly meet that deductible. So make sure that you're not making foolish decision. Maybe you're doing it from a noble place. You say, I want to really fund an hsa and I want to take advantage of that. But perhaps HSA is not. The high deductible plan is not the best fit for you. Make sure that you're figuring out how to navigate the health insurance side of your equation.

[C]

Well, and then this next one. All right, all right. Is having reliable transportation. Because, look, I know that looking cool is important, but that's not actually what's going to build your first million dollars.

[A]

That's exactly right. We know that cars can be financial napalm. That's why we have rules in place like 23eight, to make sure that you can stay inside the guardrails. And when you think about staying inside the guardrails, one of the single best things you can do. And it does. It sounds sexy. It doesn't sound super exciting. But especially if you have a lower income or limited resources, you have to figure out how to budget. How do I put together the matrix of where my dollars should go and how do I stay inside those confines? Because if I don't know where my dollars are going, I can't know if I'm wasting them or if I'm putting them in the right places. And once you put down the budget and then once you begin tracking your expenses, it becomes a little more clear, okay, this is where I can cut. This is where I can save. This is where I can triage my financial situation to hopefully get to move into the offensive side.

[C]

Well, I mean, the reality is 83% of Americans say they overspend. So if you're not at least keeping track of what's going on, how are you ever going to get ahead and actually own that discipline that creates the margin so that you can actually Put that money to work.

[A]

And once, once you. Okay, so once you've mastered defense, now you can think about the offensive side. What are the things that I can do to now start positively impacting my financial life now that I have sort of the risks and the defensive side covered? And the first thing is this might be the easiest time ever to figure out how to increase your skill set. Whether it be through advances in technology, whether it be through blogs, podcasts, articles, YouTube channels, whatever it may be, there are ways that you can increase your skill set, further your education, and ultimately, hopefully make you more valuable either as an employee or potentially as an entrepreneur.

[C]

And then I always try to find the edge. How can you make yourself stand out? And that way you can monetize that expertise and that skill set that Beau just talked about.

[A]

And once you figured out how to, how to monetize that, then we want you to really think through how do I, how do I be opportunistic? How do I find the places where I can insert myself to give myself the highest likelihood, highest probability of a positive outcome? And this might mean changing jobs, looking at a different company, it might even mean changing geographies. I need to move to a different city or a different town where there are more opportunities. If you can sort of hone in and figure those things out. As you've increased your skill set, figured out where the monetization opportunities are, and then capitalize on those opportunities, it puts you in a position to begin building towards the future.

[C]

It lets you keep the business up front, front and the party in the back, if you know what I mean too.

[A]

That's right. That's right. If you can keep the business up front, it allows you to keep your foot on the gas. It allows you to say, okay, I've done the hard parts, I found the triage, I've created the margin. Now what I'm going to do is I'm going to start devoting myself to doing the right thing and continue to plow forward. And it's amazing that even if you don't have a huge income, if you don't have a ton of margin, a ton of resource, but you have a lot of time, even a little bit, can do a whole lot for you. It's why we even talk about, for a 20 year old, $1 has the ability to turn into $88 by the time that you retire. So if you can start early and stay consistent even at low incomes, even with little margin, you can still build meaningful wealth over the long term.

[C]

So did you Cover. Keep your foot on the gas.

[A]

That was what I just said. That was what I was awesome.

[C]

So, guys, now look, if you want. I was hoping. I was like. Because look, I was like, how am I? Can I keep this straight? Is because this was all I walked in the studio at 9:50.

[A]

Yep.

[C]

And on our microphones was the mullet, the sunglasses and the chain.

[A]

The mullets. Mullets are Batman. Mustaches are back. I think aviators never went out. And I guess gold chains are back. You. You look and you look.

[C]

What the. Why? Because you have to know your why is the admin team. I think they thought we were. They were going to pick on us because they had this sitting here. Now, I picked it up and embraced this. Now, I think you honored the fact that you said, Brian, I can't remember if it was a year ago, two years ago, you go, we're never doing.

[A]

So we swore off costumes.

[C]

Costumes, they don't help their gimmick. And I was like, all right, all right, let's get in on this.

[A]

And you said, let's dive. Right?

[C]

So now look, because it is. It is a thumbnail day. Which that is the only thing I had to commit to this. So we probably have messed up the hair. So we'll see how this goes.

[A]

Can you imagine if we did all of our thumbnails for the next month or so?

[C]

Did I screw it up? I mean, did it all still pristine? Okay, Ken gives me the thumbs up.

[B]

I think you should just keep the glasses and the necklace on.

[A]

I think so, too.

[C]

I don't know. Okay, we'll roll with this. This is. I can't grow a mustache, but I can sure wear some glasses.

[A]

You can wear some glasses. And I love.

[C]

By the way, if y' all didn't know, Bo is growing his stash out. I can't unsee it now that I see it. And y' all know that is a pet peeve.

[A]

It's coming. It's summer. Hey, look, it's summertime. It's time for bare feet, shirts off, mustaches.

[C]

Y' all should know there was a whole outfit for Bo too. He just. Too cool for school. He didn't want to embrace it.

[A]

It wasn't too cool for school. I just felt like we needed some sort of balance, you know, Yin and yang is what? Like, we love to be able to create balance. We like to restore order to the financial chaos in your lives. It's why we like to show up here every Single Tuesday at 10am so we can load you up. We Want to answer your questions and speak to the things that you care about. That's why we have the team out in the wings right now collecting your questions. So if you have a question that you want to weigh in on, you want us to weigh in on, you want to get our take on something. You want us to speak to your situation, make sure that you get it in the chat. That you get it in the chat right now. Because we really. We really do believe that there's a better way to do money. Are you stopped? I thought you were gonna come in. I mean, I wanted.

[C]

Because we're gonna. We're gonna turn this into stuff.

[A]

I figured we were this far in. We should. Ruby, did you think.

[B]

I thought he might do it. Yeah.

[A]

I honestly thought this was like a new you. I thought that maybe this would be.

[C]

It might be a new you with gold chain.

[A]

Because this thing can't get the chain off.

[B]

Okay. I was unaware that you have officially sworn off costumes.

[C]

Well, I think it was an unspoken rule. I think especially when I had Bo in the Robin outfit and I was wearing back. I probably had cast the die.

[A]

I think we did. I think we did 12 costume episodes after that one. I'll tell you, the. The pandemic was a real. It was a real.

[B]

It was around 2020.

[A]

It was a real adventure.

[B]

We had done some before.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we went through this phase.

[C]

I think that's magnet. Look at that stick.

[A]

That's how you know it's real.

[C]

We must have. We have magnets or something over here.

[A]

So with that creative director, I'm gonna throw it.

[B]

Yes. No, I have some great questions queued up. Keep dropping them in.

[C]

The last admin team did that because April Fools is tomorrow and they never let a day early keep them from doing something fun. If you knew. If you come for a studio tour,

[B]

there was a lot of talk about mullets last week and Brian and a mullet. There were some AI images of Brian and a mullet. So they just wanted to see it in real life.

[A]

Did we. Did we release the AI Braveheart. The Brian Braveheart. That was awesome.

[B]

Hey, by the way, email list. You saw it. If you're in the money verse. You saw it. It's out there.

[C]

If you're see it on Tom's cover. Sexiest man alive.

[A]

They got back to us. I think we submitted. Okay. That's right. If you wonder if this is an awesome place to work, it is. This is the kind of. These are the kind of shenanigans we do. And if you are someone who's out there looking for a work home. We have a few positions available. Ruby, where can they go to check out our available positions right now?

[B]

Go to moneyguy.com and click on join the team. I think it says shoot. I'm gonna just double check. I'm telling you the right thing about and join the team. And we have all kinds of. I mean we really do have all kinds.

[A]

We do. We need advisory.

[B]

We have administrators, advisory, editor, writer, looking for some high quality, amazing team members who love money guy and personal finance. So go check that out if you're looking for a job. Okay. We do have some questions queued up. Let's start with egg, bacon and cheese. K7N, by the way, earlier

[C]

asked for 10 scrambled eggs. So egg, bacon and cheese. You have no idea what you're doing

[A]

to so hungry right now.

[B]

He legitimately massacre find him 10 scrambled eggs. But I was working so I didn't. Sorry. Maybe that was my work.

[C]

We need to hear the question, though. The question says bacon, egg and cheese.

[B]

The question says, hi, team. What is your advice on taking for retirement? Taking from retirement accounts to buy a home. I am 40 years old, 104k gross income, single, 450k in retirement accounts. I will be in this home for more than five years. So we are starting off spicy. Should egg, bacon, cheese, bacon and cheese take from his retirement accounts to buy

[A]

a home, what are our thoughts on taking it? We don't like it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

We know that there are certain provisions and certain rules where you can pull out certain money and be able to use it for that. But retirement accounts are there specifically for a thing and that thing is your retirement. So if you and I were sitting down having a conversation, one of the questions I'd want to ask you is, okay, what other resources do you have? Is there a way perhaps we maybe don't pull money out of retirement? Was there a way we could adjust our savings rate? Could we go back in the financial order? Brown, you hold the thing up for me. Maybe we've been in step five, step six, the financial order of operations, but perhaps we want to go back to step four so that we could begin building up so that we'd have a down payment so we'd then be able to use those dollars to acquire the home. And then I want to go through all the whys of homeownership. You said you're 40. You got 104,000. Our income, 450,000 retirement. You said you think you're going to be in the Home for five years. I want to talk. Talk a little bit about that and ask the question, okay, why homeownership? What is, what's the reason behind. Is it just because this is the next box that you want to check, or is there some other thing that's driving that decision making? I'd want to dive into that.

[C]

Well, you know, base it off. Come from a public accounting background. You always see T charts, you know, pros, negatives, and you kind of put the debits and credits in their places. And I start looking at this, and I know what you're thinking. You're like, hey, this is a big pot of money. I want a house that's a positive access to capital. But then on the cons column, look, any of this money, especially if it's traditional retirement money, there's some big friction costs to getting this money. Not only do you now look up a small portion of it, you could get access to and not have the 10% early withdrawal, but you're still gonna pay income tax. But then the majority of it, you would even have the 10% penalty if you really want to go whole hog on this thing and really load it up. And so that's a negative. And so there's a lot of transaction costs to get access to your money is big tax headwind. The other thing is you need this money for retirement. I mean, you're slightly ahead of the curve. If you just think about the fact of you do three times your income, you're slightly ahead of the curve, but that's actually should be something that creates a win to your back for the future, because that means your army of dollars now are starting at separation, where they compound on top of each other. Because remember that walk towards your first million, you're essentially potentially going gut it. If you, if you start using that money right now. This is when all the magical stuff happens. So that's. That's another negative is that you actually need this money for financial independence in the future. So I would strongly encourage you to figure out, can you really afford this house, or are you trying to force it by going out there and making your retirement accounts leaky? And I know that we've done a lot of stats and research on the fact that the majority of Americans, this is a trap that they fall into, is that they go and raid their retirement accounts to fund a house, to fund a car, to fund a swimming pool in the backyard. And I'm telling you, don't do it, because your future self will thank you for the discipline Find another way to get into this house so that you can live your best retirement.

[A]

Yeah. And if buying a house is that you've kind of gone through the checklist and you've answered that, I would encourage you go to moneyguy.com resources, play with our home buying calculator because you've already told us your age, you've already told your income. You know that when it comes to buying a first home, we subscribed 3, 5, 25. You don't have to put 20% down. You'll have to put 3% down, so long as you plan on being in the house for at least five years and the total housing costs don't exceed 25% of your income. So just kind of thinking through this logically, $100,000 income, $25,000 housing cost is kind of where you would be. And so I would use the calculator to back into, based on that number, how much house could I afford and how much down payment do I need to save? And it may not be super difficult to save for that down payment at 3%, depending on the price of the home you're looking and not having to tap into the retirement accounts to do that.

[B]

Well, egg, bacon and cheese.

[A]

Delicious.

[B]

Guess what? It's your lucky day because it's Tumblr day.

[C]

Nice.

[B]

So since we answered your question here on the show, we would love to send you a tumblr. Just email winneroneyguy.com oh, man, could today get any better?

[C]

Too much for people to handle. And Bo, stash it up. Stash it up.

[A]

We're coming.

[B]

It's a good day. All right, I'm gonna move on to the next question, but if you haven't yet and you want to be part of our rapid fire segment, please submit your rapid fire questions into the chat. Just put RF at the beginning and they will be considered for our rapid fire it does not depend rapid fire segment where Bo and Brian will answer your questions in 30 seconds or less and they cannot say, can I ask a question?

[C]

Sure, I guess I should raise my hand. Oh, is it Vincent Boone? Why is the stash craze catching on? Because, I mean, go to church Sunday when your pastor shows up with a stash, you know that we have reached critical mass for maximum stash hood. And I'm just trying to figure out where we go as a society from here.

[B]

I didn't notice any particular.

[C]

Who do I blame? I'm just around the front porch.

[A]

Brian wants to write a letter to somebody. He needs to know who to write the letter to. That's what he's going for.

[C]

I mean, do you ladies like stashes?

[A]

Oh, is that Miles Teller? Is that Miles Teller from Top Gun?

[B]

That's what it is.

[C]

A drop.

[B]

And to answer your question, it depends your favorite answer. All right, let's move on to a long form question.

[A]

She's like, we're just going to move on.

[B]

It depends. That's truly my answer, and I stand by.

[C]

Okay, so I don't know if you want his name on air, but your husband, do you like it when he has a stache?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Boom.

[A]

You see how definitive that yes was?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Okay, let me ask this question, Bo, does your wife like it when you have a stage?

[B]

Better when he has a beard and a hair. Does your wife really.

[C]

If she was here, I could ask.

[A]

Yeah, we'll call her. Let's call her live right now. Hey, Tim, get the phone out. Let's call her.

[C]

We're more likely to get a kid to answer that.

[B]

All right, Stoney 13 has a question.

[C]

Speaking of, is there a kid?

[A]

Is that my son?

[B]

I don't think he has a YouTube channel. Okay. Hey, money guys. I'm 26 with 60k per year and I'm saving 25.

[A]

Let's go.

[B]

I'm swapping jobs soon and was curious how important it is to find a job with an insurance plan that offers a high yield. Oh, an hsa, not a high yield savings account. Health savings account. If I am already saving 25, what do you think? We know you love the HSA.

[A]

Benefits, in my opinion are toppings, not the main course.

[C]

Exactly. I was sitting there thinking whipped cream and cherries.

[A]

That's it, man. It is.

[B]

You are on the same wavelength.

[A]

These are the cherries and the whipped cream and the sprinkles. These are not the brownie. Because what you want to do is when you go in to find a job, well, like the brownies at the bottom and you put the ice cream on it and you put whipped cream on that lava cake. We were at the. We had lunch at the twosome or had dinner at the twosome Emporium down there in Orlando. Unbelievable. I cannot recommend the desserts enough. It was that I'm getting sidetracked. But this huge Sunday. Anyways, benefits are the accoutrement. They are the. The. The sprinkles and that sort of thing. They're not the main thing you want to look for when it comes to a job. When it looks to a job you want to look for where? Somewhere where I Fit in culturally where somewhat where my skill set will be valued, where somewhere that I have career trajectory, opportunity, vertical movement, those sort of things. And then once you narrow it down to a number of different jobs or positions or things that satisfy those well then you can start comparing the benefits. But I would never let the health insurance or the health insurance plan dictate the job that I took because I think that you're focusing on the wrong thing. If you're doing that, you're kind of majoring in the minors and I think that there's a chance you could end up in a bad spot. Focusing on.

[C]

Yeah, I mean if you got two great opportunities, of course you go get to the point where you start, you go through the big long term impacts of this position. But then when you're trying to have a, you know, at the coin toss moment. Yeah then benefits have a place. But don't, don't let that be the driving factor. That's, that's, don't let you know because we always say don't let the tax tell wag the dog. It's the same thing with we love health savings accounts, but it is not the driver of your financial success. You need to be thinking because of investing yourself is one of the best things you can do.

[A]

And two other things. Don't assume because a company doesn't have a high deductible HSA option that the health insurance benefits are bad. And don't assume that if they do have a high deductible option with an HSA that that's the one you should choose. Oftentimes we steer clients and direct them. Don't pick the high deductible plan. Don't take them with HSA because the other options might make more sense for they're more highly subsidized, they have lower deductibles, there's better benefits to a better fit for your family. So don't just assume because we love HSAs. That's always a default answer. It's an option and something that you should investigate. But it's not just if it's there, I'm going to do it.

[C]

No, you're good. You know what? You know what? Actually I just got stuck on. I was sitting here trying to think of a poll we could ask our audience on is. But I was like, they're both good looking men. So I was trying to figure out where the cut was because like Magnum PI and Burt Reynolds, they are, you know, I was like who is bo? Who is bo? But then I was like, no, I need to find like a nerdy mustache person. Ned Flanders is Beaumore. You know, I was trying to figure this whole thing out.

[A]

I thought this was going to be HSA related and it was.

[C]

No, we said, oh yeah, I was already. I mean, just, he had moved on. How do I yell at this guy about mustaches A little bit.

[B]

Well, before we move on completely, Stoney13, if you would like a money guy tumblr, just email winneroneyguy.com that's hilarious. Next question.

[C]

Do you think we're in the fourth quarter of mustaches? At least give me some rays of hope.

[A]

I think we are in the Renaissance, the rejuvenation of them.

[C]

No, but there's a season look, you can ask. You can ask Magnum PI Tom Selleck. He was like, man, when that stash went out of style, he's like, oh man, it's a shame that that went out of style. But.

[A]

But did he get rid of it?

[C]

I don't think he did. Did he?

[B]

I don't think.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

I don't know if he's going to

[C]

get rid of the 4 inch inseam

[B]

stain with a mustache. I think. Interesting, interesting.

[C]

I'm sorry, I'll, I'll, I'll bring one. Maybe I forgot I took off the gold chain. Let's bring this thing back. Reel it back in, Brian, reel it back in.

[B]

Next question is from Quilt Audit. It says, morning, I'm meeting with someone in my church to talk about finances with her specifically to help her budget better. What would be the best place to start? What kind of doc should she prepare? What should she bring to this meeting? I was just curious if you were gonna sit down and somebody said, hey, I want help with my personal finances. Where would you.

[C]

There's something. You go to moneyguy.com resources and you could. It's an all terrain, all weather vehicle to tell you what to do with your next dollar. We've got you covered with the financial order of operations.

[A]

I love you.

[C]

Add to that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So I would say if I was going to sit down with someone from church and I was going to help them out, the starting point that I would want, I'd ask them to prepare a net worth statement. I want to know, hey, a list of all the things that you own and all the stuff that you owe. Right. We have a great template. You go to moneyguy.com resource, you can download a free one. You can actually email it to her, text it to her. She can then fill it Out. Well, what you're going to uncover when she lists out all the things that she owns and all the things that she owes. You're going to see the types of investment accounts she has access to, the types of retirement plan she has access to. You're also going to see the debts that she has. So that's like step number one, I want to know, sort of like starting point. Step number two, I would then say, hey, bring me your last month of credit card statements or bank transactions or wherever, however you spend money. I want to see where your spending's going. Or maybe you tell her, hey, do a little bit of work. Let's go download a free app. There's a ton out there. You can use Monarch money, you can use ynab, you can use any of these. And just start tracking where your dollars are going. And then let's look at it after a month, after you've done it. Because what I see is, man, holy cow, you realize that you have 25% of your money every month going towards eating out or towards transportation costs or towards whatever that is. And then I begin to triage that. And then once I figured, okay, how much should be going into this bucket and this bucket and this bucket and this bucket, I'd figure that out. So then I'd figure out the margin. Then once I figured out the margin, boom, I'm coming to the financial order of operations. How do I think about where I should be deploying these dollars? Am I getting my employer match? Have I knocked out all the high interest debt? Do I have a fully funded emergency fund? Am I putting money in my Roth? And I would walk it through that sort of three step process to get her on solid foundational footing moving forward.

[C]

Look, the reality is most people, because you're going to eat at this lunch, so you're only going to have probably 20, 25 minutes of productive, get it in there. That's why you're going to need to have something that speaks after the lunch. And that's why I love the free download. But also realize the backbone of Millionaire Mission is the financial order of operations. If you ever want to know the origin story, how it all came to be, how you go deep into it, and then this also allows the ground rules to come into play. Because even before you get to step one, there's some things that help you set the table of being good with money. So I think that I would use that as a something just to kind of a parting gift. So after the lunch, more action can occur.

[A]

Love that that's great.

[C]

And quack, quack, quack, quack.

[B]

You almost took the words out of my mouth. Quote audit. If you would like a money guy Tumblr. Since we answered your question, just email winneroneyguy.com let's do one more long form question before we move into our does not depend rapid fire segment is did you see.

[A]

Did you see the meme of the week? If you're not on our email list,

[B]

did you see the meme of the week?

[A]

I did. If you so one, you should follow us on all the socials. Isn't that right, Matt? We should follow us on all the socials, Matt.

[C]

Rocking a stash too over there. This thing I'm about to be. I'm overtaken over here.

[A]

But the meme of the week that was on on socials and also in our newsletter and I think it was in our little email this morning. Just fantastic. It was a representation of Ribi during the rapid fire segment and it was Chef's Kiss.

[B]

Or was it during the whole livestream?

[A]

Maybe it was during the whole livestream. There we go.

[B]

You got it. All right, let's move on to Jim's question. It says, how do I convince my spouse who is very risk averse, to invest a portion of our cash reserve in the stock market. We have no debt and two years of expenses covered by our savings. I max my IRA only.

[C]

I mean look, this is something. When I was writing Millionaire Mission, I was trying to get people to understand what feels safe in the short term can actually be risky in the long term.

[A]

Right?

[C]

And what is risky or feels risky in the moment in the long term can actually be an incredible wealth building opportunity. And that's exactly what the financial markets are. And you've got it, Jim. You've done the right thing and that's why I love you. Use once again, the financial order of operations will help you because you'll be able to show your wife, look, we don't have high interest debt. We've got emergency reserves set up. We need to now make this money, start working harder than we can with our back, our brain and our hands so we don't get beaten down by inflation so that we can actually grow this money over the long term. And that's what actually starting a Roth IRA and then buying some index funds is going to do. And that's why I would sell the vision of where you want to be and sell the vision of, hey, don't you want to actually be able to let our money work harder than we can so we can go do trips, we can do whatever your thing is that y' all love doing as a couple, share that vision so that you can build some collaboration there. Yeah.

[A]

I'm curious how old you guys are, uh, because to have two years of expenses saved up in cash is a lot. Unless you're like right at retirement or pre retirement. So I'd want to know that. And I love Brian's idea of starting with the why. Like, what are we saving for? Why are we building? So let's say that you define, hey, we want to be retired one day and we need to save a million bucks. Just making up a number. I would use math to show my spouse, hey, if we're just going to save in our savings account and this is how much we can save, this is how many months, how many years, how many decades it's going to take us to get to a million dollars by just saving in cash. And what you're going to find is, holy cow, we're not going to hit a million until we're 75, 85 years old. And then I would show her, hey, do you realize if we started investing these dollars and we could earn a conservative, let's say 7%, 8% annualized rate of return by investing in low cost index funds, do you realize we would then be able to reach that goal 10 years, 20 years, 30 years sooner by doing that? And I would show her that, hey, we have the same goals. Let's talk about the different paths we could take to approach that goal and then let's agree with one another. What's the most appropriate path? What's the most efficient, most effective path to get there? And I'd see if that kind of clicked and made a light bulb go off.

[C]

Do we have on our website, you know that because we use it on show content all the time. The rolling 20 year periods of investing,

[A]

I don't think we, I don't think that's a deliverable.

[C]

Okay, that's more of a, more of a show topic type thing. But it's one of those magical things. Is that also a great thing for people who think that investing is risky? That's why we say don't invest unless you can do it for five to seven years is because, yes, in the short term there might be some volatility, but if you can stay invested for that five to seven years, there's actually an incredible track record that this is pretty consistent. And that's another thing I talk about in the book is the law of accelerating returns and if you don't think we're living in those terms with how things just seem to be speeding up on innovation and the growth of the world and you'll be able to make money off of that. As long as we don't make the robots that kill us, we're going to be able to grow this thing and make even more money off of the ever expanding economy in pizza pie.

[A]

Love that.

[B]

Well, that's great.

[C]

But look, and it doesn't matter if the robots kill us at that point because that's what. You know what I mean? You can't control that. That's outside of the control. Fe. There's no playing. Really.

[B]

No.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That really doesn't matter to the question.

[C]

That's for the government. That's for other people who should be thinking about those things. Not you, Jim.

[B]

You don't have to think about the robots taking over the world, but you can think about what Brian and Bo shared While you email winneroneyguy.com to cash in on your Tumblr if you would like one. All right. It's Brian and Bo's favorite part of the show.

[C]

I was about to try to delay us by going on a tangent, but let's go ahead and do this.

[B]

It does not depend rapid fire segment where they will answer did awful last week.

[A]

I just want to say I did very poorly last week. I thought about it all week. I could barely. I could barely focus on oh, the

[B]

glass sunglasses are going back on.

[C]

This is a job Maverick. Let's get in there and do this thing.

[B]

So just a refresher on the rules,

[C]

Goose, are we ready?

[B]

Brian and Bo will have 30 seconds combined to answer the question and they cannot use the words it depends. And I will be trying to listen. Don't get too cute with it. Don't say other phrases that mean it depends. Okay, I will flag that now to me. I'll throw them a bone at the end and we will have our maybe it does depend segment where they can say all the things they didn't get to say in the 30 seconds. So with that, let's dive into question number one. 30 seconds on the clock when it comes to 401k max out step. Should we opt to to max out Roth or traditional or a mix of both? Don't say it.

[C]

Majority of people, you're going to be Roth, Ira. I mean I got to think that just time if you maximize the value of time and young people. I love Roth because, you know, most employers now offer Roth. I think that's where A large portion of the population would do really well.

[A]

Agree to disagree. By the time you're maxing out, you're putting $24,500 into your salary deferral. If you're able to save that much money, you're likely to going to be higher income, which is likely going to put you in a higher tax rate, which means that you're probably going to max on the pre tax side.

[C]

You ain't wrong.

[B]

We gotta disagree. And time is up. All right, question two. Why do you never mention public transcript as a possible form of reliable transportation?

[C]

Because we're too serious.

[B]

There are a lot of. There are a lot of places where it is possible.

[C]

I know whenever I go to Europe or, you know, even D.C. or New York, I'm like, this is awesome. Especially with the way the mobile apps make it work.

[B]

We have to start the clock. So this will be a lot less expensive than 8% of total income. Start the clock.

[A]

Agreed. We public transportation or like a walk in community is an amazing opportunity for folks who can live in that place. We neither one of us have ever lived in a place like that. So it doesn't come to mind initially. That's just a little personal bias that we have.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, I grew up when they built Fulton County Stadium and then even the TED later, they didn't have MARTA go to it. So I mean, we're from the Georgia. Public transportation was never done well. So we. It's not part of our life, you

[A]

know, where public transportation was done. Questions over. I get that you know, where they mastered public transportation really, really well when we were in college at the University of Georgia. Right. Like, wow, that was the, you know,

[C]

I was part of that infrastructure.

[A]

I know you were one of the bus drivers, but it was great. It was amazing how convenient it was to hop on a bus, get wherever you needed on campus. You knew the schedule. If I lived in a city where that was like an opportunity, that was a thing that'd be fantastic.

[C]

If I could make a gazillion dollars driving a bus, I might still be driving a bus. Listen to the Beastie Boys.

[B]

All right, way to fuck the system there, Bo. Let's get back to our 30 seconds.

[A]

That was a tangent. I was a tangent.

[B]

Next question is, what is the money topic Beau and Brian differ on the most and who's right?

[C]

Well, I mean, paying off debt. I mean, that's what we've. We fought on it for a long time. Made it in the book because I was both kept telling me I was bad with money or math? Because I was trying to pay off

[A]

my low interest mortgage and I was right. What's really interesting, we actually do align on, I would say almost 100% of things financially, because it's not like there's a lot of. It's fairly black and white, cut and dry. There's not like a ton. There's not a ton to disagree on.

[C]

Which question was that? So put a number three. Three.

[B]

I'm making some notes too.

[C]

Just when we come back.

[A]

He's making notes on things.

[C]

When we come back to that. I do want to say 2008.

[B]

Okay. Oh, next question. Says, if I retire before age 55, should I do 72T or a Roth ladder?

[C]

Say it again.

[A]

If I retire before 55, should I do 72t or a Roth ladder?

[C]

I. I don't like Roth ladders.

[A]

Gosh.

[C]

I want to say more, but 72T is complicated. But Roth is going to be your favorite savings and it's gonna be your favorite child. So it's gonna be the first in, last out.

[B]

Nope. Okay, we'll come back to it.

[A]

72t.

[B]

When the market is going down.

[C]

I'm so sorry.

[B]

When the market is going down sharply, what are some financial mutant actions to take?

[A]

Always be buying.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, always be buying. If you have a, if you're, if you're dollar cost averaging because you have a lump sum, you can. Once you get over 20%, every 5% drop, you can accelerate another month forward on your plan.

[B]

Well done.

[A]

Look for opportunities.

[C]

Yeah, I try to be opportunistic.

[B]

Great.

[A]

We still had time.

[C]

Yeah, you cut us off. We have 10 seconds.

[A]

You took the time. Production by.

[C]

We're master communicators. Well, I put myself in there with master. Communicated. Both.

[B]

All right, next one is the real hard hitting question. Comb or brush?

[C]

I use both.

[A]

Neither. Ooh, are you using fingers? Yeah, dude. I just mess it up.

[C]

No, I use, I use a comb to part the hair. Get the right part because I'm not an animal. And then after I dry the hair, I gotta run a brush through it to give it the poof.

[A]

You know? What do y', all, y' all use utensils or your hand? Your fingers and hands. Right.

[B]

We're getting quite the variety of answers.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Your fellow men.

[A]

Are you a coma brush or you fingers?

[C]

Neither.

[A]

Oh, I was gonna say neither. He just wakes up and just shakes a little bit. Yeah, no, I just, you know, wet the hair real quick, tussle it, put some like you little. This little. By the way, Money guy listeners. The one who hooked me up with my hair stuff. Pull a bit out of there.

[C]

Wait a. Money guy listeners. Who hooked you up?

[A]

Yeah, man.

[C]

Somebody sends you product or something.

[A]

It's the best product way over on the market. You're paying for billions. Best product I've ever used.

[B]

Let's move on to the next question. What should I do first? Pay down my mortgage at 3.25%, 29,000 or my student loan at 6.1% which is 444,000.

[A]

Student loan.

[C]

Yeah. Student loan one is especially. How old is this person?

[A]

Doesn't matter. Student loan.

[C]

I mean that one sounds easy. Let's do the student loan.

[A]

Did you say 29,000 on the mortgage? So there's a debt snowball thing going here. They're thinking, oh, I'll pay off the lower one. I'll get that out. I think it's going to be suboptimal. Especially when your interest rate on the student loans is twice as high as your mortgage and the mortgage is appreciating and it's super low interest even though almost as low as the risk free rate for sure. Student loan.

[C]

Yeah, I agree.

[B]

Next question. Which step of the foo. Would you place paying back a 401k loan that you took out before you were financially enlightened?

[C]

Yeah, I mean that's. Yeah, it's probably. That's more of a. It depends on the interest rate. I don't need to know more detail.

[B]

All right. You both lose the time.

[A]

Why do I lose it? I didn't say it depends.

[B]

Why do I lose it? You are a team. Moving on.

[A]

Last time I got called for depends. He got the answer.

[C]

I give Bo credit. He held up the three. I was like, I was thinking three and nine.

[B]

All right, next question. How do you know when it is the right time to tax loss harvest

[A]

when you have losses inside your taxable account?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Is that it? Short and sweet?

[C]

Yeah. I mean tax law. Yeah. As soon as the market starts getting find the silver lining.

[A]

Sometimes you might have a position that you really like that you don't want to get rid of. I had this individual stock. It goes down. I still believe in the stock. I don't want to sell it. Potentially miss out on the 30 day window. So I'm not going to loss harvest that. But indices that are easily replaceable.

[C]

Good call.

[A]

When you got some. When you got some losses.

[B]

Somebody put justice for Bo in the chat.

[A]

Right? Remy is Jesus.

[B]

All right, a couple more. Best strategy for handling mileage reimbursement. The rate is generous and we always have extra

[A]

on taxes or like, from the employer.

[B]

I think from the employer?

[C]

Yeah, it's from the employer.

[A]

Best strategy on handling it track.

[C]

I mean, I'm sure there's apps that are out there doing that. He always has extra for you.

[A]

Always has extra what?

[B]

Money.

[A]

Track your mileage and report it and get your expense. Reverse.

[C]

Automate the process.

[A]

I don't understand the question.

[C]

I mean, there's apps out there that will help you out.

[B]

I just want you to make sure

[C]

you get every mileage that you're entitled to.

[B]

Great. Last but not least, what really went through your head when you walked in and saw the mullet wigs on your desk this morning?

[C]

I was. I was like, what? I was like, what crazy thing are they trying to do? Especially when I saw the mustache for Bo. But then when I found out the admin team did it and April's full, I was like, yeah, come on, let's get in.

[A]

I thought it was our riding team that did it. And when I found out it was the admin team, I was like, oh, okay, that's on brand that. I couldn't figure out the angle that the riding team was going with or where we would.

[C]

I mean, let's face. They're sitting on bouncy balls right now.

[A]

Outside that our admin team.

[C]

Not serious. They're not serious.

[A]

Our admin team is sitting on bouncy balls right now.

[C]

They're not.

[B]

Health is wealth.

[A]

They're not serious people. Hey, by the way, we desperately. We desperately need a new administrator. So if you love to be an administrator for a financial advisor and you like building your core strength at work on a big bouncy ball, go to Moneyguy.

[B]

You've committed to buying another one for the office.

[C]

Oh, I'm sure that's the other thing. You know, I know this is not part of the 32nd. You know, these are corporate credit cards that are stuff. We are totally stretching the deductibility of all things. When I see mullet wigs, one of

[B]

our admins just messaged and said, let us live. So that's your message from them. All right, that finishes our it does not depend rapid fire segment. So now we will move on to or maybe it does depend segment where you can say what you didn't get to say on the very first question about 401k. You guys disagreed. Do you have anything else to say on that? No, I think fighting to not say it.

[A]

Yeah, so I. I said that if you're at a Higher income to be able to max out your step six. That means that you've already maxed out step five. That means you're putting 7500 to Roth, 7,500 to Roth, either 4,000 or 8,550 or whatever the numbers are in your HSA and now you're doing 20. I think the mat. We did the math when we did a Manny case study. You have to be making $137,000 as a household for 25% to have you maxing out all those. So the odds are you're going to be in a higher income situation, which is likely going to justify you doing pre tax if you're maxing it out.

[C]

So my logic train was that only the top 10% are going to be able to be in that situation. The 90% are, you know, probably benefit from doing a Roth. So I went with the numbers because the real answer is Bo's answer, which is it depends. But I was like 90, 10, let's go with the 90.

[B]

I knew there was going to be a lot to say there. There was.

[C]

I am saying Bo is right. I know he loves hearing that. He's a master communicator. But it is the 9010. I was just trying to play the numbers.

[B]

Well, I was curious for public transportation, what percentage of even like the United States has that? That's what I was wondering that I was under the impression.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I think more governments have done things like. Because it's not an option for public transportation. Had to be something that was really thought about in like the 1800s.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

Because now land and everything is so expensive. If you try to go put this stuff in like cities now, goodness gracious. I mean there's projects out there in California and others have shown that it's a disaster to do it now. So you. These are decisions that you wish people would have made back when land was.

[B]

Because I was just thinking about why do we not talk about it more. And I think you're not wrong that there is some personal bias there. Right. Like we've always lived in port. But I do get, I think that that's.

[A]

It's a low

[C]

mission. I do talk about like on housing that I think people who live in high cost of living areas. One of the hacks that you can break the housing rule of 25% is when you have public transportation and you don't have a car payment. There are ways I try to address it when I can talk in a format that's not. Especially not 30 seconds.

[B]

But it Is awesome. I was just in New York City not too long ago and it is crazy how like you think you're gonna get a ride share and then you're like, why would I do that? That would take way longer.

[C]

Remember we went to New York and we gave Beau the New York treatment.

[B]

We did.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And we were like, hey, we can. And it would take 45 minutes to get everywhere. Or we can pull out our cool apps and just ride. Yeah, the public transportation.

[B]

So I mean, maybe we should talk about it more.

[A]

But quick Google search. Approximately 55 of Americans have access to public transportation, while 45 have no access.

[C]

Yeah, but that stat, you have to be careful of stats because just like we just talked about, city of Atlanta has public transportation, but it's not a. It doesn't go anywhere. It's just like around here we have Buttle Shuttle.

[B]

In my mind I'm thinking New York City.

[C]

So those stats would say you have, but you don't really have public transportation. You've got the government trying to wink and nod that, hey, we got a bus out there. No, it doesn't. That's not really. Nobody rides up.

[A]

We. Number three. You said 2008. It was what does. What do the guys differ? I think I know. Yeah.

[C]

Well, I think when both. When Bo and I first started working together, because look, we all have a recency bias and since Beau graduated when the market was literally getting its. I think that you for the first few years that you were managing money or you know, you had some nervousness.

[A]

Super conservative allocation.

[C]

Super conservative.

[A]

But the market always lost.

[C]

And I was trying, you know, and at that point I was like, it's okay. And I think you probably thought I was a cowboy. And I think we've. We've now moderated where we're the same. Even though I'm getting older and probably more conservative. It's just one of those. We all are shaped by what is. We've lived.

[A]

Yep, that's right. The other one that I wanted to add just to there was a question around. Hey, for fire, should I do 72T? For those of you that aren't familiar, 72T is a way that you can access pre tax assets prior to 59 and a half. You have to take substantially equal periodic payments. But there are some rules associated with it. You got to make sure you do it right. You can't run a foul. Or should I do a Roth conversion ladder where I convert to Roth, let it sit for a while, then I'm able to pull the basis out we both ended up saying, hey, likely you want your Roth dollars to stay in the Roth accounts as long as possible. So you're maximizing the tax free growth for as long as you can because that's the real benefit to Roth. So if you're giving us a binary option between conversion ladder or 72T, we're probably going to say 72T. However, we don't really love 72T either. We'd rather see you plan for it, build an after tax account or maybe have access to. A lot of people don't realize if you are working at an employer and maybe you have this big IRA rollover over here from previous employers and you're planning on retiring at 55, you can always roll pre tax assets into Your current employer's 401k before you retire, thus opening your ability to access those assets from 55 to 59 and a half. So there are other ways to get access those dollars that aren't quite as complicated. We'd love you to do one of those as opposed to either one of the Roth conversion or.

[C]

Yeah, and I'm not against Roth ladders. It's when I've seen it, people come to us and they tell me, hey, I've built up this big Roth so I can do a Roth ladder and pull that basis out. The reality is then we look at all of your accounts and we look at what your tax rates and other things and we're like, yeah, I mean I know that that looks good on paper and it's a cool content piece, but you realize that money grows tax free. If you die with that money, it gets to continue to grow tax free and you're not going to die broke. I've seen how much money you have built up and it's just in practice when I look at people's actual assets and I'm trying to create a real plan. That's because personal finance is personal. Usually we don't go start rating the Roth account first.

[A]

That's right.

[C]

It's usually first in because it's step number five of the financial order of operations. Last out because it is your favorite child when it comes to your assets. Because that's one even Bo right now you've told me you pulled me inside. Go, hey, I know your income's tax rates high, but what are you doing? You ought to be doing Roth contributions even to your. Because I'm a number of reasons why standpoint for you. Yeah, and you're right. I mean that's why I keep thinking about. Yeah I'd rather pay a little bit more tax to this so that my, you know, daughter, who's going to be living off this stuff, because that's the other thing is I have an autistic daughter who, you know, you break the 10 year rule on spreading beneficiaries out. If you have somebody who's developmentally challenged like my daughter is, she's gonna be able to. To basically stretch this out over her lifetime, which is pretty incredible. Yes, I'm gonna pay more taxes now, but creating an alternative stream for her is pretty powerful stuff.

[A]

It's a good planning, isn't it?

[C]

It is good planning.

[A]

There was one question. Where have it. Brian said it depends. And somehow, somehow you as just a dictator decided this is the way the game works now. No, somehow y' all are both disqualified and you lost points and she wouldn't

[C]

do that to me. That's where I know I'm still ready. Favorite.

[A]

So my question. What was that question? Because I feel like I might have had something to say.

[B]

You did. It was, which step of the food would you place paying back a 401k loan? Oh, that you took out before you were financially enlightened.

[A]

Okay. Why do we dislike high interest debt? Because the high interest rate works against you aggressively. And we want your money to work for you, not against you. I would argue that a 401k loan, irrespective of the interest rate, irrespective of the fact that you're quote, unquote, paying yourself interest, you have taken valuable soldiers in your army of dollar bills off of the battlefield. So I would argue let's get that 401k loan paid off as though it were step three. So I want you to knock that out, get that paid off, let your dollars start working for you, and then begin progressing through the financial order of operations. That's what I would have said had Rebi been kinder and more equitable. But she was.

[B]

We'll try again next time.

[C]

By the way, we had some great brainstorms. Rebi walked out of the room. So it probably won't get implemented.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[C]

So we are dropping some dimes in the content meeting. If we, if they, if they fill you in, did they tell you already got some great ideas? It's going to make the rapid fire. It terrifies me because I'm naturally not good at this already, but if we can implement this, you guys are going to absolutely love what we add to this. If Ruby signs off on it.

[A]

Did y' all tell her the idea?

[C]

It's good stuff. Ruby walks out of the room and it's like, oh, bosses left.

[B]

I'm flattered. I think, I think I'll go with flattered. All right, we do have some time left, so let's get back to some long form personal finance. Are you ready?

[C]

Oh, let's do it.

[B]

All right. The Winkinator 21 asks, hi, money guy, where would an ESSP, or does he mean ESPP fall into the foo? Are those two different things you can think of?

[C]

ESPP employee stock purchase plan.

[A]

That's what I was asking.

[B]

So where would that fall into the foo? I am putting 15% of my take home into the program, which means I can't max out my retirement.

[A]

It depends. I can say that now.

[B]

You can say it. I know.

[A]

It depends on how your, how your plan operates. For those of you that aren't familiar, ESPP is an employee stock purchase plan where your employer says, hey, we want you to participate in being an owner of this company, so we're going to allow you to buy shares in our company. Now here's where it matters, how the plan is structured. Oftentimes what they'll do, especially if it's a publicly traded company, is I'll say, hey, we're actually going to let you buy at a discount. If you want to participate ESPP, we're going to let you buy at a 15% discount or we're going to look at a trading window from day one of the quarter to day 90 of the quarter and you get the lowest price in that window or whatever that is. If something like that is happening inside of your ESPP plan, we would argue that's a lot like free money. Like if I get a 15% discount or if I get to buy at a lower price than market, that's my employer providing an opportunity for me to have some free money. And so we want you to take advantage of that aggressively.

[C]

But, but here's, we love these employee stock purchase plans because it really is that good that you get a discount. And then a lot of times they'll let you buy it the lower the price at the beginning or end of the quarter. That's why you got to get in and get there and get that. But here's the, here's the asterisk that goes at the end of that. You have your human capital. This will be part of your investment capital. You need those things to kind of decouple at some point because you're trying to build financial independence outside of your human capital. And if you have all Your eggs in one basket. It can be great or it can be disastrous. And part of what we're trying to help you build is something that protects you whether it's raining outside, whether it's cold outside, whether it's sunny outside. We want you to have an all terrain plan. So that's why we love these type of opportunities. But we always say there are limits or create a system to where this is cleansing itself out. Whereas you maybe, maybe every year, you automatically are then flipping it in to sell it and turn it into diversified holdings that can start building your army of dollars outside of the company you work for, because that's a. It's just a risky thing. You've heard me tell the story of Lucent Technologies and other things. When I worked in Atlanta, I saw a lot of people that on paper were worth a lot of money. And it pretty much went to nothing because they added their human capital and their investment. Investment capital sitting in the exact same place.

[A]

Love that.

[B]

Love that. Well, hey, if you don't want to stop chatting, don't want to stop thinking about personal finance, even when we turn the cameras off today, no problem. Just go to moneyguy.com not only would do we have tons of free resources and calculators that go deeper on some of the topics we've talked about today, we also can send you to the Money Verse, our private Discord server, where you can keep chatting with each other, asking questions, giving input and perspective and experiences. And we even just posted a poll up there about your savings rate today so you can compare notes with other mutants and talk about your goals. So if you want to do that, go to moneyguy.com moneyverse all of that is on moneyguy.com we're trying to make it better and better, more searchable for you every single day. So be sure to check it out if you haven't yet.

[C]

Now, look, if you stuck around, because I think that we at least give Bo the opportunity. You've hung out with the wizard. What was your favorite ride? What was your favorite ride at Universal?

[A]

You know what I saw? So I took my, my wife and I took our oldest girls down to Universal down in Orlando. Yep. And it was unbelievable. So much fun. The girls were big. We were all the roller coasters. I. I got to see a number. I saw a bunch of you in the Nashville airports, a number of you in the Orlando airport. So some of you at the parks. Thank you so much for saying hello. It was wonderful to get to meet you. Wonderful for you to Say that you. You watch the show. So thank you for that. It was awesome. I think the easy answer to your question is Hagrid's is just ballin. It's an unbelievable ride, right? Like, it's so good. But also big fan favorites. Velocicoaster was a big fan favorite, and Hulk was a big fan favorite. So all my kids. My kids crushed them. All, right?

[C]

And the real question that everybody wants to know, do you check a bag or did you gate check a bag or did you do carry on?

[A]

So here's what we did. I going down at being in the Nashville floor, I had four carry ons. My kids and I, so we took all carry ons. We volunteered to gate check at the first notice, and it was one. We gave them the bags, went and sat down. It was so easy. We get laying in Orlando. We take it to. And just. You know what? The Lord was smiling down on me as soon as I walked the carousel. All three of my bat. Well, three of the four were just in order, and I just pulled them right off.

[C]

So somebody. You got the baggage claim. Y' all are so slow off that plane that it was already.

[A]

I got a bunch of kids, dude. We. Yeah. And it was so. It was literally so easy. And the way back, it was not a full flight, so we just carried them on, and it was great.

[B]

That's a financial mutant hack.

[C]

Really.

[A]

It is. You know what? Because I think Southwest now charges, what,

[C]

30 Delta and all of them. It is a hack. If you want to check your bag. Gate checking is probably the cheapest way to do it if it's a.

[B]

But it's amazing.

[C]

It's the same way with, like, your parents living in the basement. You want to be a choice. You don't want to be mandated. I mean, don't you? That's the reality of the situation. I love gate checking. If you want to use a financial mutant hat, sure. I don't like when the airlines tell me, hey, you, sir, you're now at this point in the line, we're going to take your bag. Even though you like to SEAL team six, get off the plane and run to the cars as fast as you possibly can. You know, they. I like it when Bo can at his leisurely pace, get off the plane. But I want my family to attack and go and get the heck out of there as fast as possible and not have the airline hold me back.

[A]

I will tell you. I When we got on the plane, because they were like. So we volunteered the first call. Hey, if anyone wants to gate check. I was like, oh, me we do. So I did. And then they did like three or four more calls we got on the plane. So much overhead space. I even sent you a picture. I sent you a picture. It was completely empty bin. So I do think they're yeah.

[C]

Fire Airlines. We've caught on. I don't know why I haven't figured out their game completely unless it's speeding up the process. But those overheads are not really full. They are fibbing to us and we've got to work on that. But I couldn't help myself. I want to know about Universal. I want to know about the gate check because that was something that just populated a lot of our livestream last week. How I got my because I saw some Money Guy folks on the plane but unfortunately they were right as I was trying to Karen out on the flight attendant. So it is what it is. I'm your host Brian, joined by Mr. Bo. We'll see you next week. Money Guy out.

[B]

The Money Guy show is hosted by Brian Preston and Bo Hansen. Brian and Bo are partners with a Bound Wealth Management Abound. Wealth Management is a registered investment advisory firm regulated by the securities and Exchange Commission. In accordance and compliance with the securities laws and regulations, a Bound Wealth Management does not render or offer to render personalized investment or tax advice through the Money Guy Show. The information provided is for informational purposes only, may not be suitable for all investors and does not constitute financial, tax, investment or legal advice. All investments involve a degree of risk, including the risk.