What They Don’t Tell You About FIRE with Andy Hill!

Summary

Money Guy Show – Episode Summary

Episode Title: What They Don’t Tell You About FIRE with Andy Hill!
Date: January 28, 2026
Hosts: Brian Preston (B), Bo Hanson (Bo), Reby (A)
Guest: Andy Hill (C), family financial coach behind Marriage, Kids, and Money

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the realities and hidden truths of the FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early) movement, featuring Andy Hill—a financial coach, podcaster, and new author of "Own Your Time." The conversation explores how FIRE principles apply to families, especially parents, and discusses nuanced perspectives on financial independence, Coast FIRE, and the broader importance of balancing wealth with happiness and time. Listener questions further illuminate practical approaches to FIRE, wealth management, and family finance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing Andy Hill and "Own Your Time"

[00:06 - 03:28]

• Andy Hill is introduced as a major voice in financial coaching for families, with over 10 million downloads across his platform.
• His book, Own Your Time, aims to provide parents and busy families with a step-by-step blueprint for gaining more freedom and margin in life, beyond just money.
• Andy’s main message: Building wealth should go hand-in-hand with building happiness and meaningful family connections.

“We forget to dream...we did that when we were kids all the time...So we have to dream. We have to take that time, 15 minutes, just to write down, where do I want to go? Who do I want to be?”
— Andy Hill [03:06]

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2. Andy’s Journey Through FIRE and Finding Coast FIRE

[03:28 - 07:32]

• Andy recounts the emotional toll of the “messy middle”—time and money both stretched thin.
• He describes experimenting with various movements (Ramsey, Debt Free, FIRE) before settling on Coast FIRE as the best fit for his family.
• Traditional FIRE was too aggressive for Andy and his wife; it required too much sacrifice during important life years, leading them to prioritize work they enjoy on a part-time basis.

“We don’t need to stop working to be happy. We need to just find work that we actually enjoy.”
— Andy Hill [05:17]

• They reached Coast FIRE ($500,000 saved by age 40), allowing them to scale back work and focus on family, health, and joyful experiences.

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3. Coast FIRE Explained

[06:09 - 07:32]

• Coast FIRE is when you’ve saved enough in investment accounts so that, with no further contributions, compounding alone can carry you to a comfortable traditional retirement.
• Andy and his wife now work part-time, having reduced expenses dramatically after becoming debt free and paying off their mortgage.

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4. Real-World Myths & Rules of FIRE – “Follow It or Forget It” Game

[09:23 - 25:16]
Andy and Bo react to common FIRE “rules”:

a) Save 25x Expenses (“Rule of 25”):

• Both say “Forget It.”
• Andy: For most Americans, 25x is too aggressive—a less rigid target (20x) can suffice, and bridging strategies work, too.

"While it sounds like you're being led to a great destination, you might lose a lot of important things on that path."
— Andy Hill [11:19]

b) Eliminate Debt Before Investing:

• Nuance is key. High-interest debt: yes. But low-interest (mortgage, student loans)? Not necessarily. Take advantage of employer matches.

c) Have As Many Side Hustles As Possible:

• Both disagree. Side hustles are fine for season or specific goals, but overdoing it can hurt health and relationships.
• Bo shares an example of a client whose side hustles distracted from their main earning potential.

d) Always Maximize Tax-Advantaged Accounts First:

• Split opinion. Andy favors it for behavioral reasons (keeps savings disciplined), Bo says it depends, especially for early retirees who need liquid funds.

“Whenever we talk about investing or saving, I’m always a big proponent for—for what? Not just saving and investing because it’s smart...put a label on it.”
— Andy Hill [20:58]

e) Invest Only in Low-Cost Index Funds:

• Both largely agree, but Bo says certain asset classes or advanced portfolios may benefit from active management.

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5. Listener Q&A: Applying FIRE and Family Finance

[25:16 - 59:24]

a) How to Know You’re Ready to Retire (Stan M.)

[26:16]

• Andy’s four steps before leaving corporate:

  1. Test side hustle for passion and earning potential
  2. Build up “FU money” (at least one year’s expenses)
  3. Supportive spouse
  4. Honest self-reflection about what you want

• Bo: Use both emotional and mathematical long-term planning. Model cash flows, stress test against market downturns, and ease into retirement (e.g., simulate monthly “paychecks” from investments).

b) Saving Tips for Parents in the Messy Middle (HTBO 1529):

• Andy: Don’t just cut, cut, cut—align spending with values and focus on creative ways to raise money (selling unused items, negotiating bills).
• Bo: Buy in bulk, focus on experiences over things, and remember that joyful family moments need not be expensive.

c) Should High Savers Cut Back Contributions? (Foo Faithful):

• Andy: If your projections are sound, use reduced savings to enjoy life now—think in terms of what you gain (joy, time, experiences) by saving less.
• Bo: Never leave free employer match on the table, but it’s okay (and sometimes advisable) to slow down aggressive saving for greater balance in life.

d) Are We Coast FIRE? Young Couple, Big Savings (Kung Fu Panda 11):

• Andy: You probably are at Coast FIRE, but don’t over-prioritize maximizing wealth at the expense of living joyfully, especially in your 20s.
• Bo: At 26, expenses and life can change rapidly—stay flexible, don’t coast too early, and reassess as major life events unfold.

e) Healthcare for Early Retiree Families (Abby Lim 4365):

• Andy: Buying family coverage on healthcare.gov worked; it’s a business/family expense that’s predictable once planned.
• Bo: Factor in both premiums and out-of-pocket costs; sometimes paying directly makes more sense than insurance (e.g., dental).
• Bo notes creative approaches: part-time work with benefits, planning for all scenarios (including “worst case”).

f) Psychological Challenges: Identity After "Retirement"

• The “FI, Next Endeavor (FINE) Movement” emphasizes planning what you’ll do after financial independence. Not doing so can lead to anxiety and depression.

"If you get to a point where you do retire and you haven’t thought about what that next venture is, that can be a point of anxiety and depression…”
— Andy Hill [53:50]

g) Should We Move for a Nicer Neighborhood (Jakester2003)?

• Both caution against exceeding the 25% housing rule; suggest exploring alternatives (adding pool to current house, joining clubs, renting extra space) instead of taking on more debt/stress.

“There are so many gray areas between staying in the house you’ve always been in and getting the house with the pool.”
— Andy Hill [56:13]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It’s not about stopping work—it’s about finding enjoyable, meaningful work and letting your money create options.”
  — Bo Hanson [05:35]

• “Just because you started the race fast doesn’t mean you can coast the whole way.”
  — Bo Hanson [44:11]

• “Personal finance is personal. Create your own situation because it’s not going to be a repeat for everybody.”
  — Andy Hill [52:56]

• “Don’t give up a comfortable now for a potential comfortable future.”
  — Andy Hill [39:11]

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Important Timestamps

• 00:06 – Intro and Andy Hill’s background
• 01:02 – “Own Your Time” and book philosophy
• 04:00 – Andy’s personal experience with FIRE movement
• 05:35 – Why Coast FIRE works for families
• 09:23 – “Follow It or Forget It” FIRE myths game
• 25:16 – Listener questions start
• 26:39 – Leaving work, how to know you’re ready (Stan M.)
• 31:45 – Saving tips for parents in the “messy middle”
• 37:49 – High savers: Scale back?
• 42:34 – Young savers: Can they coast yet?
• 48:23 – Medical/dental for FIRE families
• 53:02 – Identity and FIRE: Planning your “Next Endeavor”
• 55:09 – Moving for “more house”—balancing wants and financial safety
• 59:42 – Where to find Andy Hill and “Own Your Time”

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Resources & Where to Find Andy Hill

• Own Your Time now available on Amazon and Barnes & Noble
• Marriage, Kids & Money: marriagekidsandmoney.com
• Marriage, Kids & Money Podcast, YouTube

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers a candid, experience-based look at what pursuing FIRE really means for modern families, especially parents. Andy Hill’s practical insights highlight the importance of balancing aggressive savings with life satisfaction, being realistic about goals, and personalizing your approach to financial independence. The hosts and Andy emphasize flexibility, communication within families, and the need to plan for both the numbers and the emotional aspects of changing life stages.

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Transcript

[A]

What they don't tell you about fire. With our very special guest, Andy Hill. We are. Well, you should say this next part.

[B]

Ruby, I am so excited to have Andy Hill here with us today. Man. How are you doing?

[C]

I am fantastic and I'm so glad to be here. Thank you so much.

[B]

This is going to be fun. So for those of you that are not familiar and do not know, Andy Hill is the family financial coach behind Marriage, Kids and Money, which is a platform dedicated to helping families build two things, wealth and happiness. Right. And it's nice when those two go together.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

The team was telling me 10 million podcast downloads and views.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

So it's not like a small little thing. You're reaching a lot of people, talking to a lot of folks.

[C]

You know, as you guys know, as you do these things for long enough, the views start to gather.

[B]

The views start to gather. You've been featured in CNBC, Forbes, MarketWatch, Kiplinger's NBC News, and you got an exciting thing going on right now. What's going on in your world right now?

[C]

I just launched my first book this week, which is fantastic. It's called Own youn Time, and it's dedicated to those families out there that are looking for that wealth and happiness and also feeling the pinch of not having enough money, not having enough time. So this book is a blueprint that helps people walk them through those steps to say, how do I get some more margin in my life? How do I get some more breathing room? Because I'm feeling so claustrophobic right now in the situation I'm in. So it's not a quick one hitter process. It's a long stretch for how you're going to do this, but we've built it in a way where it's a step process so you can improve 1% at a time.

[B]

So when you're saying that, the thing that immediately comes to my mind is messy middle. We talk all the time about folks that are like, at this crossroads of you have very little discretionary time and very little discretionary money. It all happens together. Is this book built specifically and written for like folks in the messy middle, or is it broader than that? Like, it's really for anyone who wants to own their time?

[C]

Absolutely. It's really built for anybody who wants to own your time, like you said, but specifically written for parents who are feeling that pinch, especially as you come together with another partner. And a lot of the ideas that you have about what your ideal life might be, you have to share those with somebody else. Too. And make sure that you are finding that compromise in the middle to find out how you can do this thing together. And so there's steps in there to really help people with that challenge as well. Opportunity. Did I say challenge? I meant opportunity.

[B]

Opportunity. And so it can even be used as a tool for spouses, for significant others to either kind of come together to get on the same page.

[C]

Absolutely. Yeah. And a big part of that is really coming up with those goals and dreams in the beginning, because I think what, once we get so busy with marriage and kids and busy work, we forget to dream. We did that when we were kids all the time, Bo, you're too busy.

[B]

Just, like, putting stuff together to be able to.

[C]

Absolutely, absolutely. So we have to dream. We have to take that time, 15 minutes, just to write down, where do I want to go? Who do I want to be? And then ask your spouse to do the same thing with you so that you can dream together and also help each other achieve those dreams and goals. Because that's really exciting, because all the other stuff after that and is a lot of hard work and a lot of dedication to make those dreams come true.

[B]

So when I hear the title, like, own your time, the thing that immediately sort of resonates in my mind is that connects to the whole financial independence. Retire early. Is this a book about fire, or is fire coming? Is that the idea here, or is it something different?

[C]

Well, I'll tell you what, Bo. I have fallen deeply into a lot of these movements. The Ramsey movement, the debt free movement, the Fire movement, and I've experimented with them all. So this book a little bit that talks about my learnings and my failings through that process.

[B]

Through the fire process?

[C]

Yeah, through the fire process. Because there were points in my corporate career where I was just feeling so low and I did not feel connected to my family. I felt like my work owned me, and I was gone too much, and I hated it. And then I hear this message.

[B]

I think a lot of people resonate with that, Right? Like, you kind of sell yourself to what you're doing.

[C]

You hear the message of retire early. Just get out of this thing as quickly as possible, and you can do whatever you want. You can sit on the couch, you can do whatever you want. And I really liked that message. And I said, well, how can I buy my freedom? How can I do this immediately? Well, aggressive savings rates can do that. Extreme frugality can do that. And through that process, I've learned a lot about the fire movement and have made a deviation on which type of fire that I want to follow.

[B]

Okay, what fire did you think you were on and then what did you end up on?

[C]

Liked the traditional fire movement. Just, hey, max it out as much as you can. Maybe use rental properties to go that route. And I know that's been successful for a lot of people. As I went through that process personally and with my wife, we both found that that really did not work for our family situation. So what we fell into over, you know, a period of time, as well as marriage counseling, as well as trying to test out new things, is that coast fire is a beautiful middle ground that gets you that financial freedom you're looking for and also emphasizes the reality that we don't need to stop working to be happy. We need to just find work that we actually enjoy.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

And so through that process, my wife and I have been able to find part time work for both of us now at 44 years old, and we both work three days a week and we enjoy what we do and we leave a lot more time for family, for connections, for taking care of our health, for all the important things that we know we need to be seeking.

[B]

So for those of, for our audience out there who maybe is not familiar, right. You use this expression, coast Fire. Can you kind of break down just very simply, what is coast fire, at least to you? What does coast fire mean in your world?

[C]

Yeah, to me it means building up those investment accounts, those tax advantaged investment accounts so that you get to a point with time and compound interest, it'll take you the rest of the way there towards your traditional retirement without any further contributions.

[B]

No more putting 401, no more doing Roth. You hit a number and you let that number just grow until you get to true financial income.

[C]

Exactly. For us, just a quick math problem. We got to around a half a million dollars in our investment accounts by age 40. We saw with those magical compound interest calculators, it could potentially, there's no guarantees, could potentially get to around 2 million dol by the time we're in our 60s. And that is plenty for us to live on comfortably using the 4% rule or 5% rule. Bill Benkins changing things up for us a little bit, but with those rules, that can really give you some freedom. And then at that point you just say, wow, if I don't need to contribute as much to my retirement, what do I want to do with this extra money? Do I want to maximize my family experiences right now and enjoy more life today, or do I even just maybe want to work less Because I don't need to make as much money in order to be happy. Or maybe a combination of both. So my wife and I are experimenting with a combination of both, which has been great for our marriage and great for my sanity working out outside of the corporate world now.

[B]

So you got to half a million by 40 and you said, okay, we've done the math. This, who cares? And so right now you said you're both just doing part time work to pay the bills. You guys have a family to cover the expenses for the family without a big emphasis on saving or any of this really just about covering today because you've already covered tomorrow with the savings you've done previously.

[C]

Yeah, absolutely. Just numbers wise because I know the audience likes that. When we started our journey, we were probably spending around $10,000 a month for our comfortable life. Typical family, two income earners, depending on where you are in the country. After we eliminated our debt, hit coast fire and then paid off our mortgage, our comfortable living expenses were $6,000 a month. So at that point, part time work could really cover that for our family. Now of course that doesn't mean that we won't want to make more money in the future, but now our baseline is like I need to enjoy what I do and then can I grow it from there? And so that's where my wife and I have been over the last four years now. We've both been working part time. And yeah, we try to increase our income of course, but. But it's not the driving force of our happiness anymore. If we're able to increase our income, that baseline still needs to be three days a week of working and four days of enjoying and living life.

[B]

I love that. And what I think is great is that you're someone who's actually living the fire or living the coast fire life. I think so often we read blogs or articles or academic papers. These people who have theorized what it could look like, whereas you actually have like some tangible real experience around. Hey, here's what fire actually looks like. Here's how it's manifested in our lives. Here's what it has done for us, which I think is great. And Rebi, I think you said you have an idea. Since we have like an in house expert here. You wanted to play a little game.

[A]

Yes, you are living the fire life to some degree. And so we have a fun way to kind of see where you guys land. We're gonna play a game called Follow it or Forget it. And I'm just going to read a common Quote, unquote fire rule that you might see online or reading or watching videos on TikTok or Instagram. And then both of you have a little paddle with a thumbs up for follow it or a thumbs down for forget it. And I want you to hear the rule tell us if you would follow it or forget it. And then you get, you know, 15, 20 seconds, give a little explanation explainer around why you think that and maybe even share some of your experiences with. I know, but we've got clients who have done this kind of thing, Andy, you've been living it. So you ready to dive in?

[C]

I'm ready.

[A]

Okay, the first rule is the rule of 25. You must save until you have 25 times your desired annual expenses to do fire. What do you think? Forget it. You guys can say if you follow.

[C]

Oh, I'm sorry, words are good.

[B]

I say I disagree with that. Why do you disagree with the.

[C]

I disagree with it for many reasons because this is one of the traditional kind of fire ideas. And I think it can be one of those incredible sounding ideas and simplistic ideas, but for the vast majority of Americans, it's very, very difficult unless you're a multi six figure earner, unless you're don't mind extreme frugality and you don't mind giving up a lot of important moments of connection during your very important years in life. So I think that while it sounds like you're being led to a great destination, you might lose a lot of important things on that path towards what you think might be a better future.

[B]

So what you're saying is 25 may be too aggressive of a goal for someone to try to pursue.

[C]

Yes, might be too aggressive. And also I would say 20 times, based on some math that I've learned is just totally fine. I think, in my opinion too, I think that we've had an overemphasis on this 4% rule for forever where it's like, hey, 4% until you're 90, it's like, okay, no, if you still got a lot of money at 90, you better be ramping that thing up. So, yeah, for a lot of reasons, I give double thumbs down.

[B]

Yeah, I completely agree. I think that 25 times kind of is. It's another way of saying the 4% withdrawal rule. But what if you have other sources of income? What if you have a pension? What if you have rental property? What if you have other things you might not need to have that level of expenses covered? Or, and this is maybe a hot take, what if you're Someone who wants to check out way, way early. Maybe I want to be done working in my early 30s. I might even argue in that scenario, in that environment, maybe 25 isn't enough. Maybe 4% won't do it for you. So I get real, real cautious when anyone says you must do something. So when I say you must save that before ignatifier. I think that personal finance is personal. So your number should be your number, not what someone said it has to be.

[C]

I would agree. And I think there's actually an easier way to do it too. I would say having just a year's worth of expenses and savings could help you bridge from a place where you're feeling uncomfortable to a place where you want to go. So you can figure that out over a year. That is experimenting with a new business that's maybe switching industries, that's maybe going back to school to try a trade that is actually more fulfilling. I think this 25 times rule might be a 15 year venture where you could really maybe do something in about a year or two. Love that. So awesome.

[A]

That's great. Okay, second fire rule is eliminate debt before you invest.

[B]

Oh man, I thought, I thought that was good. I was trying to bait him. I was trying to bait him.

[C]

He waited.

[B]

I think that you should eliminate some debt. I think that like high interest debt, we actually have this nine step process called the financial order of operation.

[C]

I'm throwing it up. Brad's not here, so I got to help out.

[B]

The financial order of operations would suggest that. Okay, yeah, if you have high interest debt, credit card debt, consumer debt, that sort of thing, by all means, knock that out before, before you start investing. But if you have like low interest student loans, low interest auto debt, low interest mortgage, I don't know that I would satisfy those before I start investing because I know how powerful my dollars can be.

[C]

I agree. And especially if you have that employer match at work, that can be some major way to build wealth early. I worked at one of my corporate jobs for seven years. Not that you have to max it out, but I maxed it out and got this great match for just seven years and I walked away with almost $200,000. The market was great, but it's like, that's amazing. That's magical. So you gotta take advantage of the market. And yes, I do believe that eliminating that high interest debt is great practice psychologically for an easy. Okay, I can handle this. Because sometimes investing can feel intimidating where it's like, I don't know where to start. There's A million people online telling me different things to do, but I do know, okay, pay off credit card debt. I got that. So if that can help you get the ball rolling psychologically to say, okay, I can really handle my situation, then go for it. But yeah, don't give up that free money.

[B]

Love it.

[A]

Third rule for the fire movement, quote unquote, is have as many side hustles as possible to maximize income.

[B]

We've not disagreed yet.

[A]

I know this. I mean, these are pretty bold statements.

[B]

Fire culture is like very pro side hustles. Why do you disagree that you have to have as many as possible?

[C]

I think life is for living. If we constantly are pursuing the maximum of everything, we are not listening to our body, our health, our family and friends. We need to have more facets in our lives than just worker or income earner or employee. We need to have more facets in our life that diversify who we are as an individual. This will help us have a well rounded life. And when we say side hustle, side hustle until you cry, I don't think that's a good recipe for anybody. I mean, for a season. I don't want to say that doing side hustles isn't helpful if you're saying, hey, I do have credit card debt and I'm having an issue getting it down because I can't seem to make more money in order to do it. Do it for a season. Yeah. Say, hey, I'm going to hustle for whatever, three months, six months, and I'm going to be debt free after that. That's neat. That's great. Good for you. But set a cap at it. So this isn't a forever thing. And definitely don't do it until you get 25 times your expenses because, I mean, I don't want to sound too hyperbolic, but this could really affect your health. It really could. And if the goal is to maximize our lives and have that wealth and happiness, then make sure you're listening to your body.

[B]

Well, and I think a lot of people don't recognize that even sometimes side hustles can be incredibly ineffective to accomplishing the goals you have. Has Peter released yet?

[A]

No, we have a Millionaire.

[B]

For those of you if you have not subscribed, make sure you subscribe to the channel right now because we have a Making a Millionaire episode coming out in the next couple weeks with Peter and he's a young guy who's doing a lot of things really, really right. But one of the things he's doing wrong, he has these Side hustles that are really pulling away from his main job where he makes his main amount of money. And so we kind of walked him through. Hey, all these goals that you have, you would likely be more suited to reach them if you step away from some of these side hustles. So it's a really fun, like, real world example of that going on. You want to make sure that the time that you're using is well spent. And so side hustles could be a part of that, but not always a part of that.

[C]

Yeah. And I love the side hustles that eventually don't require your time and attention.

[B]

Absolutely.

[C]

Presence. I love it. So if you can grow that and build it up, those are the best side hustles to go for as well.

[B]

Love that.

[A]

Awesome. All right, the next fire rule is always maximize tax advantaged accounts first.

[C]

Always maximize tax advantage accounts.

[A]

This one stumped them.

[C]

I don't, I don't, I don't. I guess I don't have a trouble. Too much trouble with that. Maybe I'm not reading.

[A]

Got a disagreement.

[C]

Good. You know, otherwise we'd be boring.

[A]

Nuance in here, though. Okay. So Andy says follow it. Bo says, forget it. What do you guys.

[C]

Let me hear why you. Why? You know, I can also learn something today.

[B]

Well, I always. It says, always maximize tax advantaged accounts first. I'm just thinking through, okay, if I'm maxing out my Roth IRA and I'm maxing out my 401k, but I'm someone who wants to check out of the workforce at 45. Yeah, I'm going to have an issue getting access to my dollars because I haven't hit that. 59 and a half. 1K. 55. So there might be a season where, yeah, you started out doing your Ross and you started out doing the pre tax, but once you began figuring out, okay, this is how I'm actually going to use these dollars, you may say, hey, instead of going all the way up to 24,500 on my 401k.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm going to start shifting some money to an after tax brokerage account so that I'm building that bridge. Money I struggle with always. I feel like Rebi did me a disservice because, like, she needs a hat.

[C]

You need a half.

[B]

I need a depends. I need, I need. Like, it depends. If you gave me an it depends.

[A]

I would notice we did purposely did.

[C]

Not just need one with the diaper on it. Right? That's right. No, just for fun, I'm going to Disagree. Just for fun, here we go. The reason being is that I think folks like you and I, or probably a lot of your listeners have the ability to maybe utilize a taxable brokerage account for early retirement or for their goals. But then there's a lot of people out there like me, I'll be honest with you, who will build up that taxable brokerage account and just say, you know what, life is really good right now. I'm going to buy a brand new car with that. And I did that. And I don't mind that I got my car and I like my car. And you do that when you have built up a certain amount of wealth and decisions like that don't feel that bad. But looking back, you're like, okay, you know what, I probably could have bought a new to me car and maybe not done it impulsively and drain my taxable brokerage. I think that sometimes when these tax advantaged accounts have a label on them that says, hey, this Roth IRA or this 401k is for your retirement in a traditional age and you don't have.

[B]

A choice, and you don't have a.

[C]

Choice otherwise there's going to be a penalty. It's just enough for you to be like, nah, right, fine. Or the hsa, it's like, this is specifically for health purposes and don't use it for anything else. Okay, fine. Or 529.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

All these things that have that label on them. So I would say yes, I'm using a taxable brokerage account for other purposes outside of, you know, buying a car. But maybe some people would have a little bit of difficulty with that if it doesn't have a specific label on it. So whenever we talk about investing or saving, I'm always a big proponent for. For what? Okay, you know, not just like saving and investing because it's smart and you can have a higher percentage, like put a label on it so that you remember why you're doing it. Otherwise you'll buy a car when you feel impulsive about it.

[B]

I get that it can be behavioral. That person is going to have a hard time when they get to 45 trying to figure out like, oh, okay, well where's this? Where these dollars are going to come?

[C]

Absolutely. Midlife crisis has happened as well. And then you just want to get that car and you're like, oh man, whoops, I messed that up.

[B]

All right, so we got one, we got one that we disagree on.

[A]

I know, let's do one more fire roll. All right, Then we're Gonna get into your questions, so be sure to drop your questions in the live chat if you're watching live. The last rule I have today is invest only in low cost diversified index funds.

[B]

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[B]

Get started today@stitch fix.com Spotify that's stitchfix.com.

[C]

Spotify well, the holidays have come and gone once again.

[B]

But if you've forgotten to get that special someone in your life a gift, well, Mint Mobile is extending their holiday offer of half off unlimited wireless. So here's the idea. You get it now, you call it an early present for next year.

[A]

What do you have to lose?

[B]

Give it a [e-mail] Switch limited time.

[C]

50% off regular price for new customers. Upfront payment required 45 for 3 months, $90 for 6 months or 180 for 12 month plan taxes and fees. Extra speeds may slow after 50 gigabytes per month when network is busy see terms invest only in low cost. I mean, I don't know.

[B]

I got no problem with that actually. You know, hold on.

[A]

What?

[C]

Stay red.

[A]

Stay red. They both say follow it. Why do you say so?

[B]

You know what though? Hold on, I'm going to.

[C]

He wants to hold up the diaper one he does.

[A]

He really does.

[B]

No, no, I'm going to. I'm going to. I'm putting on my professional please do we. I love, I love, love, love, love, love low cost index funds. We do use those for the vast majority of the portfolios we manage. But there are seasons and there are times and there are situations where an index fund might not be the best solution. When I think about how we allocate our client portfolios across, you know, anywhere from 7 to 11 different asset classes. Some of those asset classes are really, really easy to go get. Index exposure S&P 500 love it, index it. Even international love it, index it. Small cap index it. But there are some nuances where perhaps the index is not the best solution I can think about. Over the last decade we were in this really unique interest rate environment where interest rates were at all time lows and it seemed likely that they were going to increase. And if you don't know this, bonds and fixed income is One of the toughest asset class categories to navigate. And we arrived at the conclusion, you know what? Rather than just simply buying the bond index, there might be some active managers who could actually add value to that portion of the portfolio. Because the same thing about the alternative sleeve. So always and only using index funds, I don't think I would sign up for, because we don't practically that's not what we do professionally. I do think there are justifications for using an active fund or a strategic fund in very specific, purposeful situations. And once your portfolio reaches a large enough size, I think that's justified. But for early on, folks building up to that critical mass, up to that initial threshold, I love the idea of using index funds.

[C]

I like it and it makes a lot of sense. And I love how you caveat in that. I would just say for if I'm going to be the opposite side, I'm just going to say for the majority of people, I think they get locked down when it comes to investing and then they just say, you know what, this is all too confusing. Seven asset classes. Do I need to be in crypto? Do I need to do this? I'm going to do nothing. So I really just want to get people started and realizing that this can be super easy and it can be as simple as clicking a button. Now when you do start to get a little bit more advanced, you start to build up your wealth. Meeting with a financial advisor to support you on your journey after you're feeling okay, I've done this DIY thing for a little while, I need some support is an extremely smart decision, especially ones you can trust. So absolutely. I love that.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

Not so bad, right?

[A]

You did great. That was a good conversation. I loved it.

[B]

I love that we get to do this. Well, one of the things is not only can we put together this stuff and answer fire questions, but we love one of the things we do Every Tuesday at 10am Right here is we like to sit here and answer our audience questions because we care about what you care about and we want to load you up. And today is no different. We have a special guest, Andy Hill, here today that's going to walk us through some of the answers to these questions. So I imagine if you have questions about how to own your time, how to do fire, how to get on the same page with a spouse, I bet you're going to have some fantastic insight.

[C]

I would love to share both my insights and my failures.

[B]

Absolutely.

[C]

I love it.

[B]

So if you have a question right now, make sure. You get it in the chat. We have the team out in the wings collecting your questions because we really do believe that there is a better way to do money with that.

[C]

Reby.

[B]

Creative director Rebi felt weird not to say it. I'm gonna throw it to you.

[A]

You're a creature of habit, for sure.

[B]

I'm such a creature of habit. I'm such a creature of habit.

[A]

Fantastic. All right. I do have a question queued up from Stan M. It says, hi, money guys. I'm 36, married, with four young kids, messy middle. I have enough saved to live on a 2.5% withdrawal rate, but I can't force myself to retire. How would you convince cautious clients it's safe to retire?

[B]

You know, it's really interesting, Andy. At some point, you had to make the decision, hey, I'm gonna step away.

[C]

From the corporate world.

[B]

I imagine when you and your wife were both working, making good incomes, it sounds like had some success, you reached a point like, hey, I can step away from this. How'd you have the clarity and the comfort to do that at a pretty young age?

[C]

Absolutely. Well, it was a few things for me. So I had been testing out my side hustle for four years before finding that I loved it. Every moment that I could do it was a lot of fun, and I didn't want to ignore that. That was very fun. I was doing this in the 5am to 9am or the 5pm to 9pm kind of timeframe. So I found something that I was interested in, also found something that could make money. I love passion, hobbies, and things like that, but you really need to make sure people are actually gonna pay you money before you're gonna say, hey, this is something I'm gonna do. The third thing was we saved up $100,000 of FU money to essentially say, hey, this is 12 months of expenses to cover us, even if things go nasty. And then fourth, I had a supportive spouse that said, hey, man, you got this. Let's go for it. Let's not do those rental properties. We both looked at those things that. That's not something we want to get into. Why don't you try this? You're super passionate about it. I believe in you. So between those four things, I felt confident enough to go for it. And I would say to the listener, if you do have the money saved up and you know that you can do it because you've been watching the show a bunch and you feel pretty comfortable about it, I would have some more internal discussions with yourself saying, Do I like what I do? Are you not leaving your job because you like it and that's okay? Like, having a job you like is a blessing. Like, not a lot of people have that. So if you enjoy what you do, that's great. Maybe a step down there is like, can you do what you're doing three days a week?

[B]

There you go. Just back down a little bit. Yeah, I love it.

[C]

Maybe four days a week this year or three days a week next year. So you can still do it and enjoy it.

[B]

But I think a lot of people don't realize it could be. It doesn't have to be a switch on or off switch. Another thing, Stan, I would tell you to do, obviously what was great is Andy kind of walked through some of like the psychological triggers. I think you can go through some mathematical triggers too. And this is what we do for our clients. Before we ever say, hey, you're clear, check the box, you can make it. We actually do a long term cash flow analysis. You said, hey, I believe that we can live off a two and a half percent withdrawal rate. Well, in reality, in practice, when it comes to how people live, it's most often not two and a half percent chunks every single year. Because inevitably there's that year that you have to replace the car and there's that year that you have to do the wedding and there's the year that you're going to do the travel. And so what I would do is I would map out what I really think from 36 right now. And I'm really thinking about stepping away. I'm really thinking about retirement. Have I accurately depicted what my life is going to look like in a best case? Not best case, in a best thought out scenario from 36 all the way out to age 95 with those contingencies, you said, I got four kids. Have you accounted for four colleges, any number of weddings, any number of first homes, whatever, whatever those things are that you want to do. Have you put that into a plan? And then have you actually stress tested that plan? Have you said, okay, what if we go through a below average market environment? What's my probability of success of actually being able to make it through this? So I think you can combine both the qualitative measures that you said with the quantitative data, and then when you do it, try to change as few things as possible. We find for our clients all the time, they get really uncomfortable. They're like, man, okay, what am I gonna do when my paycheck stops? I say, hey, we're gonna Start a paycheck for you. You tell us what day you want it to happen. You want it on the third of the month. Okay. On the third of the month, X dollars will hit your checking account, and you budget and treat it the exact same way. And if you can do that, I think it does help you sort of ease into what it's like to actually be retired, actually be financially independent.

[C]

I think that's fantastic. Yeah.

[A]

Stan M. Thank you for the question. I am going to designate today as Tumblr day. So if you would like a money guy Tumblr, since we answered your question on the show, just email winner moneyguy.com and we would love to send you one. All right, next up, we've got a question from HTBO 1529. This is a very messy middle question, so I think you guys will have something to say. It says, hi, two of my kids are potty training, and I'm excited about saving on diapers. Any other tips for parents who are trying to save some money? My kids are three, two, and seven months.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

This is the most messy middle question.

[B]

Yeah, I think, Ribby, you and I were talking about this. You said one of the ways that you really saved a lot of money is you went cloth diapers. Right. Instead of having, like, the throwaways, you were like, I'm just gonna ring those guys out.

[A]

I did not say that. For the record.

[C]

No.

[A]

Like, shout out to you if someone is saying that. But I did.

[B]

You've. I imagine one of the things you write about in your new book is talking about families that are in this exact same situation. Right. Like, money's tight. What are some things that you've seen? Or what are some practices you've seen people put in place to figure out how to find a little more margin.

[C]

Absolutely. Well, I always like when we're talking about saving a little bit more money when things feel tight, this can be a slippery slope, too. And I don't want to go down the rabbit hole of cut, cut, cut, because when you're already feeling tight, the opportunity for mental distress as a young parent, oh, my gosh, can be really difficult. That being said, there are some things that you can do as you look at your budget overall and make sure that we're looking at those numbers, what's coming in and what's going out. Most people know how much is coming in. They always like to say their salary. I know they know their salary.

[B]

They know that one.

[C]

They don't know how much is going out. So looking at those Numbers and really diving deep into those and making sure what's in your budget actually meets your values and things that you actually care about. Some ways to save money without really like killing your joy. I love the experiment of just walking around your house, especially if you're a young parent and seeing things that have value that you can sell online in a quick way and maybe make $500 in a weekend, $1,000 on a weekend. That can be thrown towards babysitter money that could be thrown towards paying off debt. Those quick things like that. Looking at if you followed the foo and you do have your emergency reserve, maybe looking at high deductible health plans if that fits with your health situation, that can save you some money in the long run. These are little things that you could do. Maybe even negotiating a lot of the bills you have between the cell phone companies and the cable companies and just making sure that you're getting the best deal. These could put thousands of dollars back in your budget as opposed to maybe thinking about the cloth or disposable debate.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

It's not the only option.

[B]

I love it. You mentioned ungrateful service provide providers. A lot of people don't realize you can call your cell phone company, you can shop your insurance, you can change those things and those can be meaningful savings. We used to talk about cutting the cord, but now all the streaming's got so expensive that like it's a new cord. I cut the cord and now just an invisible cord. That's right. Maybe, maybe reassess the cords that you have going on a monthly basis. I just put two others. You know, with young families, buying in bulk is always a great solution. If you can shop at, at a Costco or a Sam's or whatever, it's a great way to save some money and then don't feel the pressure. Because all of us as parents do this. We want to create memories for our kids. You know, this is our kid's childhood. This is the things I'm going to remember. Don't assume that memories for your kids have to equate to a lot of dollars being spent. Find ways to bedazzle your basic life. Maybe you're not going to go on that super expensive crazy Disney vacation. Maybe you're gonna go to the local state park and you're gonna go do that thing. And you would be amazed. And these kids ages, they were like.

[A]

Seven three, three two and seven months. So all the more they are going to be so entertained. I know, I have little ones too.

[B]

And don't don't buy toys, just buy boxes. Right?

[A]

It does not take much to get.

[B]

Them what they play with just to.

[A]

Have the best day.

[B]

And so, and I think about be careful. And I remember this when I was a new parent, I don't feel like I struggle with it as much now, but when I was a brand new parent, there was a lot of pressure around, oh, well, I'm doing this and we're doing this and our kids are doing this and our kids are in this. And it's like you feel like, oh, well, my kid has to be doing violin and piano and playing 19 sports and also doing the extracurriculars. And maybe that's not what makes the most sense for your family. So figure out what you guys value. Allow your dollars to go in that direction. Don't allow them to go in a direction to impress people, to buy things or do things, to impress people whose opinion doesn't matter anyway.

[C]

I completely agree. I remember signing myself and my son up, who was a year at the time, because I wanted to do something special, bonding moment with him where we would do the swim class. And we did it for, I don't know, months. And he looked like he was making progress. And then after a little while, I'm like, okay, let's see what he can do on his own. Went straight down to the bottom of the pool. Of course I picked him up. But it's just a good example.

[B]

You're like, son, you wasted all that money, all those last things.

[C]

Maybe we're trying to do these things a little too early and putting a weird pressure on ourselves and our kids that doesn't need to be there.

[A]

Yeah, no, there's a lot of truth to that. HTBO 1529. If you would like a money guy Tumblr, just email winneroneyguy.com.

[B]

You know, it's funny, for those of you that are not aware Nashville's having a bit of a. We're having a bit of a weather event right now.

[A]

We are.

[B]

Lots of ice. Not very much snow, but lots of ice and stuff. And you know, my kids, when it's, we live in Nashville, we get about one good snow a year and they'll go out there and like make, you know, snowmen or whatever. But that's not what this one has been. And I'm so proud of them because, like, they just figured out, man, if everything's icy, I can still sled and I can stop. It was 10 degrees to 8 degrees, 10 degrees yesterday here. My kids were outside for like an hour straight. Just like tearing it up with the neighbors, you know, sledding down the sidewalk. Because it's just a sheet of ice.

[C]

And that costs.

[B]

It costs nothing. Like, it costs nothing. And that's going to be a sweet, sweet memory to have from the. They're not going to remember all the craziness of this ice storm. They're going to remember doing that. So the more you can find ways to encourage your family and your kids to have those kinds of experiences, I think the better off you'll be all the way across the board.

[C]

Great advice. Absolutely. That's great.

[A]

Next question is from Foo Faithful. Love the username. We're 37 with 1.3 million saved, 64% in Roth. Our projections show we'll exceed our retirement needs. Should we scale back contributions, even if it means losing a match? Or is free money always worth taking? I know what Beau's gonna say. I'm interested to see what Andy is gonna say.

[C]

Oh, well, I think I do. I jump in if you'd like. Absolutely. Well, I would say instead of thinking about what you are taking away, the free match and all things like that, think about what you could add. So if you get excited about, okay, maybe if I drop down by 5% in my savings rate, what could I replace that 5% with? What feeling inside your body right now? Are you saying, man, wouldn't it be cool if, like, money can buy. That money can help get. That money can't solve all problems, but makes some easier to solve? It sure can. So if you said, man, I am feeling so stretched at home with, I don't know, clearing this ice and I got to do it myself, clearing the snow. It's like, wouldn't it be great if I could use some extra money at home to pay for things so I can get some extra support and breathe a little bit? Man, it would be nice if we went on more vacations, but I got this 35% savings rate, so we can't go on vacations. Go on the vacation. Especially if your projections are allowing you to have a comfortable retirement. Don't give up a comfortable now for a potential comfortable future. So if you can scale it back slightly. I think a lot of times people have found such success with these programs that we're talking about, wow, we've made this simple, We've DIY ed it, and we are wealthy because of it. So in order to scale back, it just feels like you're doing something wrong. So it's like, well, I've done so well with this. How could I go the opposite way? Just think about what you're feeding yourself. On the other side, though, more time for family, more time for things that you care about, more time for your health, more time for community. That's where real joy and happiness is a gigantic number in your worth statement.

[B]

Money is nothing more than a tool that allows us to accomplish the things we want to accomplish. And here's what I know. Foo faithful, if you're 37 years old, barring an inheritance, you've been saving like a banshee to get to 1.3 million.

[C]

Incredible.

[B]

64% of that in Roth. So you've just been crushing it. What that tells me is your savings rate has likely not just been the employer match. Even if it's a five to get five or whatever, you've likely been saving more than that. So I love what Andy said. Hey, you can scale back without scaling all the way back. Because if there's free money to be had, I would encourage you to get that free money for our. For our, our clients that retire but they decide they don't want to stop working or what's. We've seen this a number of times. Clients will. They'll make it to financial independence and then they'll start working a job. They'll be like, hey, I don't need to save anymore, but I'm eligible for the 401k and the 401k has a free match. Should I take it? And we're like, yes, you're already financially, go get the free money. Even if we need to distribute money from your taxable account and replace, and we're just kind of, you know, robbing Peter to pay Paul free money makes sense. So I don't think you're going to be in a situation where the free money or not getting the free money is going to change a whole lot for you. So you absolutely should take advantage of it while you can, but do the assessment. Just like Annie said, can I do something more? Can I allow my dollars to give me not just a better future, but also a better right now? But it's not all or nothing. It's not zero sum. There are varying levels. If you've been pedal to the metal your entire career, it's okay to ease off that gas a little bit. Especially if you're at 37 with $1.3 million.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

1 of people, we get a. I don't. I don't say financial advisors get a bad rap, but oftentimes people think that the role an advisor serves Is save, save, save.

[C]

More, more, more, more, more, more.

[B]

One of our favorite things in the world to do is to get to tell people, hey, why don't you back down your savings rate? Hey, why don't you go on that trip? Hey, why don't you replace that car? Hey, why don't you do that home renovation? Hey, why don't you actually use this money to improve the life that you have right now? Because what's the point of having an entire pot of money at the end of your life that you did nothing with? So there's a balancing act there. And foo faithful, you're at a great point to start figuring out what that means for your situation.

[C]

I love that.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

Food faithful. If you would like a money guy Tumblr, just email winner moneyguy.com Next question is from Kung Fu Panda 11.

[C]

Look at that great name.

[B]

Look it.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

My wife and I are 26 with 200k a year and 320k invested all in retirement accounts at a 30% savings rate. Are we in Coast Fire? Should our hyper accumulation be in brokerage accounts? We spend 7k per month. So he gave you a lot of information.

[C]

You're Coast Fire? Yep.

[A]

Is he coast fire and then BO step 7 hyper accumulation. What? Where should he go with that?

[B]

So we're 20? Well, first of all, you as someone who is in Coastfire presently, is this a Coast Fire person?

[C]

It is. What I am fearful of is that there is too much maximization of wealth and maybe not enough maximization of joy in your 20s. That being said, I don't know a lot about your situation. Kung Fu Panda 11. Awesome name though. You sound cool. I mean two awesome things in that. So I guess if it were me and going back to my 26 year old self, if I was in this situation, I would experiment with increasing things that bring you and your wife happiness today and decreasing your savings rate. Because yes, you are Coast Fire. If the idea of Coast Fire resonates with you a little bit, you're like, oh, I see how the math could work. I see how that could help me get where I need to go in retirement. Then experiment again with how you can pull back the savings rate a bit and enjoy more life. Now, if you're 26 and your savings rate is holding you back from doing things that you and your wife are interested in doing, that is something to start to listen to and experiment with.

[B]

I use this analogy again. There was a making a million episode that we did with Christine. Oh man. I might have Got her name wrong. But there was a making millionaire. Danielle. We did it with Danielle.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And it was.

[A]

That's right.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

She was in this situation, like, hey, I've been doing this and I've saved up. My answer to you, Kung Fu, is, are you in coast fire? We don't know enough yet. And I'm going to argue it's possibly potentially even too early in the journey to be able to assess that. Because you said that right now your burn rate is $7,000 a month. And it's great that you have a handle on that. I can tell you for me personally, my burn rate at 26 looked very different than my burn rate at 36. Right. There's a lot of life there that happens. And in order to be coast fire, what you have to do is you have to reverse engineer. You have to figure out, okay, what's the pot of money I need at the end of this journey? Right. And that pot of money is going to be based on what you're spending at that time in your life. Well, for a 26 year old, if you're pre home, pre kids, pre job, change, pre all these things, there's a good chance that a lot of those things are going to change. The analogy that I always use is just like, I'm not a big runner. I do, I do run, but I'm not a big runner. You know, I like to pick things up, put things down. But if you, if you're going to run a marathon, you're going to run a 5K or any distance and you take off in the first, you know, 800 meters, first half mile and you're like running a five minute mile, you're like, holy cow, my marathon time is going to be incredible. My flight is going to be incredible. Well, just because you started that way does not mean that that's what the rest of the journey is going to look like. You haven't gotten far enough in the race to make that assessment. Now if you're almost at the end, right? If you're, if you're on your last half mile and you've been averaging a five minute mile pace, well then yeah, you can have some assurance you're going to be able to finish the race at that level for you at 26. This is one of the reasons why we say if you can save 25% of your gross income, we have a great deliverable. If you go to moneyguy.com resources that says how much can you save save or how much should you save if you can save 25% of your gross income right now. You're going to give yourself maximum options and maximum flexibility. Now there's a chance you've already got 320,000 invested, so you should go again to moneykai.com resources, play with our wealth multiplier and see what that 320 can turn into by the time that you retire. But does that mean that you should just coast on that level? I don't think you have enough variables yet. So I would consider just like you said, maybe you don't have to have a 30% savings rate. Maybe it's 25, maybe it's 20, maybe it's even 15. You'll have to assess that. But I don't think you can say, oh, I'm just going to take my foot off the gas. I don't think you're far enough along in the race. I don't think you've done enough of the heavy lifting yet to be able to coast. Now if you're married, no kids, not going to have kids, already got a home and you know, your expenses are locked in, I guess perhaps it's a different story, but just most 26 year olds I know are not at that place.

[C]

That's what I'm fearful a little bit of in the 20something conversation where the savings rate thing becomes so important that other important goals get put in the back burner. That might be having a family, that might be taking care of your health, that might be pursuing more fulfilling things in life. So if like you said, we find a balance of yes, it's important to save and invest for the future, but not at the expense of living for today and enjoying life. That's the balance you gotta find. That's why I like coastfire, because it's a more tame version of hey, maximize and grow and money at all costs.

[A]

Those are a lot of good thoughts there. Kung Fu Panda 11 yes, thank you.

[C]

For submitting the cash candle of the.

[A]

Day and for having a cool new email. Winneroneyguy.com if you would like to cash in on your very own moneyguy tumblr next question is from Abby Lim. 4365 it says any suggestions for how to handle kids medical and dental insurance? If we retire early and the kids will lose their insurance, do we just have to pay for their insurance until they can get their own? I thought this was interesting because this is kind of one of those downsides of fire, right? Or like things you have to consider. Sure it's not on the shiny Brochure. So I don't know. Andy, do you have any thoughts?

[C]

Absolutely, yes. So this was an exact situation that my wife and I went through in 2019 as we were saying, hey, let's both step back from corporate life. And with that, the big scary thing that a lot of folks see online is insurance. Well, what are you going to do with insurance? Yep. I went to healthcare.gov and looked up a policy. I got the exact same policy that my corporation was giving me. And we pay on average. It's varied over the years for sure, with a lot of things that are going on, but it's been between $600 and $1,200 over the past five years.

[B]

That's per month for a family of four.

[C]

That's per month For a family of four. High deductible plan. That being said, that's not a small amount of money. But if you factor it in to your expenses and you realize that that not all corporations are paying the whole bill anyway, they might subsidize it a bit. You're still having to pay some money. So it shouldn't be a stopping point for saying, hey, I should retire. How am I going to take care of my kids? You just have to realize it's an expense and it's become a business expense of mine. I have a solopreneur small business, so I am the only employee of my business. It just becomes an expense as a part of my business. So I'm able to take care of my family that way for the past six years.

[B]

And I think I agree with all of that. Full, full. One of the things that's unclear to me is how old will your kids be when you early retire? Because it's different. If you're talking about, hey, we're gonna early retire and I've got a 9 or 10 year old versus hey, I'm gonna early retire, but my 20, I have a 22 year old. You know what I mean? Because then there's a different conversation you have around where your kids are and what they're doing. And then you have to factor it into your plan. If I'm going to retire early, what do I believe health care costs are going to be for premiums? And then what do I think I'm actually going to spend for the actual health care? Because those are not the same thing. Just because you're paying for the insurance doesn't mean you don't have additional health care costs.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

So you want to factor that in and then you want to get creative and do other things. Like, okay, well, do we want to carry dental insurance? Because I'll tell you one of the things I carry dental insurance. And it was the biggest crock. Like, it was awful. Right. I found that for the dentist that we see, they have a plan where you can like do a little membership deal. And it was much less expensive for us to be members of this dentist and pay directly out of pocket. Way cheaper than what the cleanings and all that kind of stuff was through insurance. So you ought to talk to your providers and figure out, okay, does dental insurance make sure sense, does vision insurance make sense? Or are those expenses I could appropriately account for in my budget in retirement and be able to be able to do that? What I think people, people get so excited about the retire early part and so excited about the, oh, I want to own my time and be my own boss. They glaze over. There are things that happen and there are expenses that come. You want to make sure that you are more conservative than you think you ought to be. That's why I always say even, even when it comes to like retiring early in the fire movement, we want you to do 3D glasses. Okay, here's the dream. Here's what's on the brochure. Here's what's down to earth, here's what's most likely going to happen. But this is the doo doo. This is the stuff that, oh, I don't want this scenario, but if it happens, I know I'm still going to be okay. And if you actually do that, then you're likely going to set yourself up to have a successful financial independence era.

[C]

Yeah. And you know, as a business owner, the, the idea of own your own business and it'll be the best thing in the world. There are some realities to that, that, that you need to dive into as well.

[B]

Exactly right.

[A]

Gotta figure out the insurance. You're the boss now, right?

[C]

There you go. Exactly.

[B]

Can I throw one other thing out there?

[A]

You can another.

[B]

Just again, since we have you here sort of like this as the fire expert barista. Fire is often a thing that people think about. I say, okay, I'm gonna retire, I'm gonna leave, but you know what? I'm gonna go get some sort of part time work. I'm gonna go work for some sort of organization where working part time or working this level qualifies me for benefit. So if I need to provide, but I may not have to have the high corporate, super stressful, crazy job, but I can have the job over here doing XYZ that provides benefits for my family. And that might be a really great way to bridge. So your fire, your financial independence might be in a few different segments. And that's totally okay too.

[C]

I like that one. I like that. I think what's happened with the Fire movement is people tried it out and then they said, ah, that was good for me. Or it wasn't good for me. And then they just invented their own versions over the past last 10, 20 years. And I love these multiple iterations because as you said at the beginning, personal finance is personal. Create your own situation because it's not going to be a repeat for everybody.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Andy, have you heard of the Fine movement, Financial independence Next endeavor.

[C]

I believe it stands for next endeavor.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I was going to say that's Bo's favorite.

[C]

So I like to restructure Coast Fire in coast to financial independence and relax early as opposed to retire. Because retire is so loaded. You know, that word is so loaded. So I think if we can modify our verbiage in a good way, that works for you, that you say, ah, yes. So I love your fine movement. Absolutely.

[A]

We read it somewhere online. You know, there's all these different things that pop up. And I remember when we told Beau that he was like that, you know, I resonate with that.

[C]

I understand that every one of our.

[B]

Clients, every client that wants to retire is on fine financial independence. And then what.

[C]

What the rest of my life looks like. Exactly. I think that's the whole point too.

[A]

I feel like that's what a lot of fire people are, actually.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Like you, honestly.

[C]

And if you get to a point where you do retire and you haven't thought about what that next venture is, that can be a point of anxiety and depression for a lot of people out there. So experimenting with that beforehand and deciding who else you want to be, because you're letting go of this identity of saying, I am a worker, and then you're going immediately to retired. So you're also still having that identity as a worker. You're either working or not working. That can be an identity crisis for a lot of people. So breaking up that identity, diversifying who you are as a person is a really smart move.

[B]

People. There's. There's so much press around that happening to traditional retirees. Oh, I gotta figure out what my next step. This is true for early retirees too, maybe even more so. Don't think that youth excuses you from having this existential crisis around. Okay. How am I. How do I define what am I going to spend my time doing? Oftentimes we get so excited about the thing that we're leaving behind and don't put near enough attention to. Okay, what are we actually moving towards? And you want to make sure that that moving towards thing is something that's going to be able to sustain you.

[C]

Over the long term and something you're excited about. Absolutely. Yeah.

[A]

That's incredible. Let's do one more. Jakester2003 has a hot question for you here. Spicy question. My wife and daughter really want to move to a nicer neighborhood to a house with a pool.

[C]

Pool.

[A]

I'm anxious because it would be above 25% of his gross income, which is our housing rule, I believe. Plus our current mortgage is 2.75%. Help.

[C]

I love the help part. Well, if Jakester's writing in and asking this question, what does Jakester think about this plan? Right. Well, I mean, I guess they share a lot of the numbers, but I guess I keep going back to psychological things and that marriage, I would say it's equally important for you to share your feelings and how this makes you say help or the anxious feelings that you're getting with your wife and really having those deep conversations. Because I really do feel like there's a compromise here that could work for both parties and it might take longer than just flipping the switch and saying go or no go. There are so many gray areas between staying in the house you've always been in and getting the house with the pool. That's right. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah, I think, I think, Jake, here's how I would, here's how I would think through this. Obviously going above 25% on your housing costs is a risky endeavor. So I'd want to know where are you in your career trajectory? You're early on in the career, middle career. Do you think it's going to increase and how far over 25 are you going to be like 25.1 or are you going like 36% because that, the scope of that matters. You did say something super interesting. Hey, my current mortgage is 2.75%. One of the things I might investigate is do you have to move to a new house and reset a new mortgage or might there be means and mechanism to install a pool at your current house? And maybe you don't have the funds to pay for it right now, but maybe that's a goal that you could save for to be able to do that. And so that way you retain that low interest mortgage. You have this other Intermediate term goal that it still fits into the housing thing, but it's a shorter term goal, not like a 30 year house solution. And that's exactly what my wife and I did. We were entertaining the idea of, okay, we want, there's some things about our home we want to change. So we started looking around at other homes around the area and it was just going to cost a fortune. It was going to cost a fortune in terms of what real estate's done, but also in terms of interest rate movements and that sort of thing. And so we arrived at the conclusion maybe it makes more sense for us to just make this home that we're in right now our dream home and let's do some improvements and let's do those things. And we talked about it and went through the, you know, the finances of it and stuff. And that was a great solution for us. And rather than having to get rid of my super low 2 something percent mortgage, we were able to keep that and also be able to have a pool and do that sort of thing.

[C]

I think that's great. And you know, I've been through this process too where I'm like, okay, we're doing well in our finances. Maybe we should get a bigger house, more space for the kids, more things. I could have my own gym, I could have my own office, I could have a pool. You know, this gets really exciting. But then I started to say to myself, well, does that add more stress and does that add more home ownership anxiety? Because you know, the reality of owning a home, it's not just owning it, it's like, like sometimes the thing owns you, man. It's got a lot of stuff going on. So I started to investigate, well, what are ways that I could have those nice things, but maybe not go for this big house venture. So I decided to join a gym. Instead of making my own gym. I needed more space for an office. I decided to rent an office just down the street from my house. You know what? I wanted some space to play pickleball near where I live instead of making my own pickleball court or whatever. It's like join a pickleball place, man. Not only does this help you save money long term, but it actually connects you with real human beings outside your house and make community and friends. So you could find the things that you're maybe seeking to have internally at your house. Might be lonely to have a pool where nobody's at, maybe a community pool or a club that you could go to where your kids and you could make some Friends. So thinking about it in the same fashion you mentioned earlier, where it's like, hey, maybe I don't need to sign up for all the kids activities and sports. Maybe we can just find fun, frugal ways to make it happen. Just, just, just sledding on the ice.

[B]

That's it, man.

[C]

Could be, could be a fun way to go. So you just, you just gotta look at it and you gotta figure out a good compromise that works for both of you.

[B]

Love that.

[A]

Nicely done. On a difficult question that I knew was a difficult question, but you guys had some fantastic thoughts. Andy, it has been a delight to have you. Before we sign off, I'd love to hear where people can get your book and where people can find, find you and any last thoughts you guys have on Coast Fire and Own youn Time.

[C]

Absolutely. Well, I am so glad to be here. And I made it through the ice storm and we figured it out. I do have a new book. It's called Own youn Time. I'm very happy to have this out there into the world. As of last week, I actually brought this nice copy just for Beau.

[B]

Oh, let's.

[C]

He's a great guy.

[B]

He's so nice. You've got to sign this before you leave.

[C]

Absolutely. But the book is out there. It's on Amazon, Barnes and Noble. And it's specifically for parents who are feeling that stress, both money and time, and they want a little bit of margin and freedom. And I'm excited to put it out there and really help people. It's gotten some great reviews online already and just happy to keep getting it.

[B]

Out there outside of the book. If people want to know more about the content you're creating, stuff you're putting out there, where can people find you?

[C]

Yeah, well, I think there's this beautiful collaborator feature that we're taking advantage of today on YouTube. And I'm at Marriage, Kids and Money, both on YouTube and my podcast. So if you want to listen, you can find it there as well. Marriagekidsandmoney.com awesome.

[B]

Well, it's been an absolute blast. Thank you for being so willing to open up, share your story, as well as answer some questions for us.

[C]

Absolutely. It's been a pleasure, man.

[B]

Absolutely. We love that we get to do this. We're going to keep doing it every single Tuesday. If you've not subscribe to the channel, make sure you do that. If you've not checked out all of Andy's stuff, do that, go out and buy his book. We will be here with you next Tuesday. At 10am for Andy, for Reby, for the rest of the Money Guy team. MoneyGuy team out the MoneyGuy show is hosted by Bryan Preston and Bo Hanson. Brian and Bo are partners with Abound Wealth Management. Abound Wealth Management is a registered investment advisory firm regulated by the securities and Exchange Commission. In accordance and compliance with the securities laws and regulations, Abound Wealth Management does not render or offer to render personalized investment or tax advice through the Money Guy Show. The information provided is for informational purposes only, may not be suitable for all investors, and does not constitute financial, tax, investment or legal advice. All investments involve a degree of risk, including the risk of loss.