Money Stuff: The Podcast

Episode Title: Good Game: WBD, Tricolor, TAE
Hosts: Matt Levine & Katie Greifeld
Release Date: December 19, 2025

Episode Overview

In this final podcast recording of 2025, Matt Levine and Katie Greifeld dive into four eclectic finance stories closing out the year—ranging from the behind-the-scenes drama of the Warner Bros. Discovery merger battle, the eyebrow-raising fraud indictment at Tricolor, Trump Media’s unexpected foray into nuclear fusion, and new South Korean regulations on leveraged ETFs. True to Money Stuff’s signature tone, the episode blends technical explanation with sharp wit, candid industry insights, and memorable quotes, making sense of the month's most bizarre and newsworthy money tales.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Warner Bros. Discovery (WBD) & Paramount Merger Drama

[04:00 – 11:01]

• Deal Intricacies & The Larry Ellison Question:

  • Paramount is vying to acquire Warner; drama has shifted from typical media merger topics (regulation, creative control, Trump involvement) to fine points about closing certainty and merger agreements.
  • Paramount’s bid backed by a $40 billion commitment from Larry Ellison’s personal trust; WBD questions whether the trust will have the money at closing—“the trust can be like, I don’t have any money. I’m just an empty shell.”
    • Quote – Matt Levine: “The incredibly weird thing that's happening here is that the commitment papers are all apparently being signed by the trust. And Warner says, well, but you could take all this stuff out of the trust. … I think that's right. I think that as a technical analysis is right.” (05:04)
  • Ellison has previously signed deals this way (e.g., Musk’s Twitter buyout), but WBD wants a personal guarantee.
  • The easy solution seems to be for Ellison to sign directly—so why hasn’t he?
    • Quote – Matt Levine: “Paramount, so far, I don’t know, they’ve said no, but they haven’t said yes. So that’s where we are. Yeah, it’s very weird.” (06:59)

• Market Pressure & Kushner Exits:

  • Oracle stock (Ellison’s wealth base) recently took a hit, raising questions on funding.
  • Jared Kushner’s Affinity Partners withdrew from the deal—political undertones fade as Kushner exits.
    • Quote – Katie Greifeld: “With Jared Kushner on Paramount side, there’s some enhancement to that argument. And if him gone, it's like, oh, maybe that argument's off the table.” (09:28)

• Advice to Paramount:

  • Matt’s take: “They should probably have Larry Ellison sign a personal guarantee for the deal, which seems—Sign the paper, Larry.” (09:55)

• Banker Perspective:

  • Big deals mean working over major holidays—paralleled to NBA players working on Christmas (Investment banking as high stakes, high reward).
    • Quote – Matt Levine: “When the NBA players play on Christmas Day, nobody says, our holidays are ruined. … This is as good as it gets for investment bankers.” (10:22)

2. Tricolor Subprime Auto Scandal

[13:11 – 17:56]

• Fraudulent Loan Practices:

  • Texas-based subprime car lender Tricolor filed for bankruptcy after double pledging loans.
  • CEO Daniel Chu indicted for more than just double pledging; they marked delinquent loans as ‘current’ in Excel, failed to update the balances, and borrowed more against them.
    • Quote – Matt Levine: “If the loan is current, then it’s getting paid every month, which means that it goes down. The balance goes down every month…They didn’t decrease the amount because they weren’t getting paid, and they just marked them current to trick their lenders.” (14:07)

• How They Were Caught:

  • Junior analyst at lender Waterfall Capital spotted unchanged balances and asked questions.
  • Internal panic and recorded calls as executives scrambled for cover—jockeying for cooperation agreements with prosecutors.
    • Quote – Matt Levine (quoting Daniel Chu): “If we were trying to commit fraud, we wouldn’t be so stupid as to keep the same balances on there. Nobody would be that stupid.” (16:03)

• Enron Comparisons & Defense Strategies:

  • Executives joked about comparison to Enron, even floated blaming banks for “ignoring red flags” as negotiating leverage.
    • Quote – Katie Greifeld: “Chu likened Tricolors meltdown to Enron…He even discussed the idea of pinning the blame on banks for allegedly ignoring red flags, a threat they hope to wield as leverage.” (16:51)
  • Matt: “It’s a real high wire act to be like, we’re Enron, but we’re not going to prison.” (17:18)

3. Trump Media Buys a Nuclear Fusion Company (TAE)

[17:56 – 22:21]

• The Bizarre Merger:

  • Trump Media, operator of Truth Social and an ETF business, merged with TAE, a legitimate, well-funded nuclear fusion startup.
    • Quote – Matt Levine: “It’s a $3 billion public company that runs a social media site and…they bought a nuclear fusion company…Why not? Really? Why not?” (18:03)

• Nuclear Fusion 101:

  • Matt briefly explains fission vs. fusion, why fusion is seen as a holy grail for power generation. TAE appears legitimate, funded by Google & Chevron, pictured reactors.

• Logic for the Deal:

  • Ostensibly “America First” energy strategy, but real reason: Trump Media has a lot of capital (from meme stock fervor), TAE has a capital-intensive project—each brings what the other lacks.
  • Matt: “If you have a lot of access to capital markets…use your access to capital by other businesses. Because then at the end of the day, you have a nuclear fusion company.” (20:41)

• History of Meme Stock Pivots:

  • Other meme stocks (e.g. AMC buying a gold mine) have pivoted outside their original sector to use inflated stock value to buy real assets.
    • Quote – Katie Greifeld: “You point to AMC buying a gold mine. There is some tenuous precedent for this.” (21:27)
  • Final judgment: “Nuclear fusion also, you gotta give it to them.” (22:18)

4. South Korea's New Rules: Watching a Video Before You Can Trade Leveraged ETFs

[24:53 – 29:40]

• Background:

  • South Korean retail investors have been actively speculating in US and Korean leveraged/inverse ETFs, products which are often poorly understood and risky.

• Regulator Response:

  • Starting this week, brokers will require investors to complete a one-hour online training (and receive a certification code) before trading such products.
    • Quote – Matt Levine: “As of this week, brokerages will…block investors wanting to put their funds into leveraged or inverse ETFs [unless] they…completed a one-hour online training.” (26:07)
    • Katie: “One hour?” (26:08)

• Reactions & Commentary:

  • Matt approves: “I love this…Yes, absolutely [there should be gated access].” (26:45)
  • Speculates on workarounds (“aftermarket in those codes”), but emphasizes the move covers the regulator’s responsibility.
    • Quote – Matt Levine: “If you…buy the ETF…‘why did you let me buy this? I didn’t even watch the video’…The regulator is like, ‘you’re a problem, man. You should have watched the video.’” (27:36)
  • Katie recalls US FINRA’s similar (and highly unpopular) proposal to quiz buyers of complex ETNs/ETFs.
    • “Apparently when I wrote this…Finra had received 12,000 comments on this proposal. For context, usually they get fewer than 20 comments.” (28:22)

• Matt’s Summary:

  • Investors don’t love friction to trading, but Matt (deadpan) would “love to take the quiz”—and even offers to make training videos himself.
    • Quote – Katie Greifeld: “That would be fun. If someone had one, I’d be interested in taking it.” (29:30)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Paramount-WBD Battle:

  • Matt: “If I knew what it would be, it wouldn’t be that weird. It wouldn’t be that exciting. It wouldn’t be delightful.” (03:05)
  • Katie: “Sign the paper, Larry.” (09:55)

• On Tricolor Fraud:

  • Matt (quoting Chu): “If we were trying to commit fraud, we wouldn’t be so stupid as to keep the same balances on there.” (16:03)
  • Katie: “Enron has a nice ring to it, right?” (17:11)

• On Trump Media & Fusion:

  • Matt (sarcastically): “Trump Media brings the stock raising ability and TAE brings the possibility of nuclear fusion.” (20:33)

• On South Korean ETF Rules:

  • Matt: “I really want to record the library of ‘don’t buy these product’ videos.” (28:13)
  • Katie: “I would love to take the quiz though. I think that sounds fun.” (29:29)

Important Timestamps

• [02:10] — Intro: Hosts banter about avoiding the usual “year in review” format
• [04:00] — Paramount & Warner Bros. Discovery merger deal mechanics
• [13:11] — Breakdown of Tricolor fraud and insider calls
• [17:56] — Trump Media buys TAE, a nuclear fusion company
• [24:53] — South Korea requires investors to watch training video before trading leveraged ETFs
• [29:40] — Episode wrap-up and holiday well-wishes

Episode Tone

Conversational, irreverent, sharp, and very much in the spirit of the “Money Stuff” column—deadpan humor, affectionate mockery of financial eccentricity, and approachable analysis leaning into industry in-jokes and real-world oddities.

Takeaways for Listeners

• The year’s biggest finance stories are as much about legal minutiae, egos, and technicalities as about actual business performance or strategy.
• Fraud can be staggeringly unsophisticated—and often unravels in extremely human ways.
• “Meme stocks” create real capital that sometimes gets leveraged to bizarre ends (and sometimes, just for fun).
• Regulators struggle to balance protecting individual investors with letting them take risks—sometimes resulting in simple but controversial fixes like mandatory training videos.
• As ever, the finance world remains a stage for both the deeply serious and the laughably absurd.

Next episode returns January 2, 2026.