Money Stuff: The Podcast

Episode Summary: "Horse Pilates: A Mailbag Episode"

Date: January 2, 2026
Hosts: Matt Levine (Bloomberg Opinion columnist), Katie Greifeld (Bloomberg News reporter/anchor)

Episode Overview

This episode features a lively mailbag format, with Matt and Katie responding to listener questions about Wall Street, finance, analyst behavior, meme stocks, ETFs, prediction markets, share buybacks, and even horse dressage. As always, Matt and Katie blend deep financial knowledge with their signature wit and irreverence, making for an insightful and entertaining dive into today’s quirky corners of the financial world.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Do Analysts Ask Questions on Earnings Calls?

(03:07–07:08)

• Core Idea: Sell-side analysts ask questions on earnings calls not just for information, but to build public reputation, impress clients and companies, and market themselves/their banks.
• Matt’s take:
  • Analysts are providing a "public-ish good," aiming to make investors think positively of them, which can lead to more business.
  • Good public questions can endear them to both clients and the company.
  • There’s a marketing & performative element: "Being a research analyst is in some sense a marketing job, right? So being good in public is good marketing..." (05:00 – Matt).
  • Even if the information is public, analysts' unique models and analysis still give them an edge.
• Katie compares this to journalists at Federal Reserve press conferences, noting the satisfaction (and competition) in asking tough, useful questions.

"Isn't there satisfaction in asking a really good question?" (06:05 – Katie)
"The competition leads to this strange place where the people who are less motivated by money make the most money." (09:33 – Matt)

2. Puzzle People vs. Money People on Wall Street

(07:18–10:22)

A listener rants about "weird math-camp types" versus traditional, sociable financiers.

• Matt’s view:
  • Many finance stars are motivated by intellectual curiosity, not money.
  • "Solving puzzles is really good for managing money."
  • The influx of "math-camp weirdos" sometimes results in frauds, but also outperforms "lacrosse player" types.
  • Matt sides with the "puzzle people," seeing their dominance as "good for the world and also very pleasing aesthetically."
  • This shift (social/marketing to math/puzzle orientation) is a decades-old Wall Street tension.

3. Favorite Quotes in Investing

(10:45–12:21)

• Matt fondly cites Samuel Johnson:

  "There are a few ways in which a man can be more innocently employed than in getting money." (10:55 – Matt)

  • He uses this to argue that making money is likely less harmful than other motivations like power or revenge.
• Warren Buffett’s gold quote is a close runner-up:

  "You can fondle the cube, but it will not respond." (12:21 – Matt)

4. Proxy Advisors’ Influence & "Can Billionaires Rig the Vote?"

(14:03–16:44)

Listener asks if a billionaire could buy up ISS or Glass Lewis to control shareholder votes.

• Matt:
  • Influence is exaggerated; proxy advisors matter most in low-stakes issues.
  • If their guidance became obviously biased, asset managers would stop listening.
  • Their "bias" is shaped by the needs of their asset manager customers; disrupt that and their business model fails.
• Katie:
  • Agrees, noting reputational impact if a controversial buyer took over.

5. ETF Structure: Why Not Route All ETF Trades to the Issuer?

(16:48–19:01)

A listener suggests ETFs could avoid NAV premiums by having all trades be creations/redemptions at NAV.

• Matt explains:
  • That would make ETFs identical to mutual funds—missing out on trading flexibility and crucial tax advantages.
  • "The trick of ETFs is that they never trade for cash... this is really important... so there are no taxes and they defer taxes for as long as you hold the fund." (18:28)
  • The arbitrage mechanism is vital for keeping ETF prices in line with NAV and allowing secondary market liquidity.

6. Why No Meme ETFs?

(19:11–22:26)

• Listener: Why don’t we see meme ETFs trading at wild premiums like meme stocks?
• Matt:
  • It’s the ETF arbitrage mechanism. If ETF price rises above NAV, arbitrageurs close the gap for profit—preventing wild mispricings.
  • "With ETFs, there is a symmetrical mechanism... the ETF kind of has to trade at its fundamental value." (22:07)
  • Meme stock mechanisms don’t translate to ETFs due to this constant arbitrage.

7. Prediction Markets and Sports Betting Evolution

(24:53–27:21)

• Listener: Could sportsbooks become market makers on prediction markets like Kalshi?
• Matt:
  • Sees a possible future where sportsbooks fill a "market maker" role, handling retail bets & offsetting risk on open markets—akin to retail equity order flow and HFTs in stock markets.
  • Notes legal/regulatory complications but sees a plausible parallel.

8. How Companies Actually Do Share Buybacks

(27:28–30:32)

• Listener: How do companies execute buybacks, and what are the insider trading rules?
• Matt:
  • SEC Rule 10b5-1: Companies (like insiders) can use preset, automated plans—enabling buybacks even if later possessing insider information.
  • Historically, tender offers (set-price, open to all shareholders) were standard, but open-market purchases now dominate due to SEC rule relaxation.
  • Banks frequently manage the process and devise derivative-based accelerated buyback programs.
• Quote:

  "Not so dissimilar from what you would do with Robinhood... but if you want something more complicated like a fancy derivative product, they'd be happy to put you into that called accelerated stock buybacks." (29:29 – Matt)

9. Katie’s Adrenaline Junkie Dressage Life ("Horse Pilates")

(30:32–32:37)

• Listener: Is dressage (competitive horse dancing) an adrenaline sport for Katie?
• Katie:
  • Dressage itself isn’t adrenaline-fueled like horse jumping, but showing is a "performance" that requires intense focus for 5-10 minutes, which she likens to being "on" for live television.
  • "It’s like horse ballet... But I love dressage for the training element of it. It’s like horse Pilates, honestly." (31:14)
  • Even activities like chess have a performance/adrenaline element at a high level.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On analyst questions:

  "A lot of what you're doing is letting everyone hear how smart you are." (05:00 – Matt)

• On puzzles vs. money in finance:

  "The people who are less motivated by money make the most money." (09:33 – Matt)

• On the Samuel Johnson quote:

  "People...get mad at Wall Street...but it's better than almost all the alternatives." (10:55 – Matt)

• On Buffett’s gold cube:

  "You can fondle the cube, but it will not respond." (12:21 – Matt)

• On meme ETFs:

  "You can't have a premium, not sustainably...the arbitrage mechanism means the ETF kind of has to trade at its fundamental value." (22:07 – Matt)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Analyst earnings call questions: 03:07–07:08
• Wall Street’s "puzzle people": 07:18–10:22
• Favorite quotes: 10:45–12:21
• Proxy advisors & billionaire influence: 14:03–16:44
• ETF structure explained: 16:48–19:01
• Why no meme ETFs: 19:11–22:26
• Prediction markets & sportsbooks: 24:53–27:21
• Share buyback mechanics: 27:28–30:32
• Katie’s horse dressage ("Pilates") & adrenaline: 30:32–32:37

Tone and Style

The episode is classic Money Stuff: deadpan, sharp, a little self-effacing, and occasionally lightly absurd—particularly in the horse Pilates and meme ETF discussions. Matt continues to draw from deep financial lore and history with literary and Buffett-esque references, while Katie matches with wry, practical insight and journalistic realism.

For listeners who missed the conversation, this episode delivers classic Money Stuff: a smart, breezy, slightly odd yet always insightful ramble through the idiosyncrasies of modern finance (and horse ballet).