Money Stuff: The Podcast

Episode: "Impaled on the Obelisk"

Date: February 6, 2026
Host: Matt Levine
Co-host: Katie Greifeld

Overview

This episode sees Matt Levine and Katie Greifeld dive into a very “Money Stuff” week: from Elon Musk’s rapid-fire corporate maneuverings merging SpaceX with XAI, to the oddity of data centers in space, cascading effects in private markets, the state of "digital asset treasury" activism, and looming existential questions about AI's impact on the software-as-a-service (SaaS) economy. With their hallmark deadpan and irreverent banter, they explore how these headline stories intersect with market structure, corporate governance, and the occasionally bizarre motivations driving financial innovation.

Key Discussion Points

1. Adventures On the JP Morgan Rooftop

Timestamps: 00:47–02:11

• The show opens with Matt and Katie swapping stories about recent Wall Street rooftop escapades, specifically the obelisk atop JP Morgan’s building (with much joking about King Kong, free soloing, and saluting New Jersey).
• Sets a light, playful tone and alludes to the episode’s title.

Quote:
"I wanted to, like, free solo it. Yeah, but it was so cold."
—Matt Levine (01:04)

2. Musk's Lightning-Fast SpaceX-XAI Merger

Timestamps: 02:35–06:42

• The Deal’s Speed and Structure:
  The merger between SpaceX and XAI is characterized as astonishingly fast and idiosyncratic, made possible because Musk controls both companies—negotiating with himself and signing for himself.
• Shareholder Dynamics:
  Even though Musk is not the sole owner, his voting power enables him to bypass dissent—employees or minority shareholders have no real say.
• Regulatory & Legal Angle:
  Details about incorporation in Texas and ways the law there could facilitate muscle-flexing mergers, even if entities were public.
• Valuations:
  Numbers assigned ($1T for SpaceX, $250B for XAI) are largely arbitrary given no cash is changing hands—just allocations of ownership.

Quote:
"This is the thing. I come from the world of public company mergers, where you negotiate for weeks and then six months later it closes. Elon Musk...from a glimmer in his eye to the deal is closed is like, I don't know, what, four days?"
—Matt Levine (02:54)

3. The Logic (and Absurdity) Behind Space Data Centers

Timestamps: 06:16–10:15

• SpaceX Funding XAI & Data Centers in Space:
  Discussion about mainstream media narratives—SpaceX’s profits not just serving rockets, but funneling into sci-fi ventures such as orbital data centers.
• Skepticism About Space Data Centers:
  Both hosts openly doubt the technological practicality ("Why do they have to go in space? Would the ocean be easier?...How did we land on space?” — Katie, 07:51), but marvel at Musk’s penchant for executing on science fiction dreams.
• Kardashev Scale:
  Matt brings up Musk’s references to harnessing ever-larger energy sources, up to wielding the sun’s energy—a tongue-in-cheek allusion to science fiction and what motivates big Silicon Valley goals.

Notable Moment:
"When you have all the energy of the sun at your disposal, you can, like, travel between galaxies or whatever. God, it sounds so stupid when I said, but Elon Musk's, like, one of his main dreams is to harness all of the energy of the sun."
—Matt Levine (08:26)

4. SpaceX’s IPO and Index Inclusion

Timestamps: 11:00–13:07

• The hosts explore tactical efforts to alter index fund rules so SpaceX shares can be included in major benchmarks (NASDAQ, S&P) quickly after IPO, moving significant stock to public market holders sooner.
• ETF design quirks: Discussion of the Baron Capital ETF (ticker: RONB), which holds SpaceX shares, how SEC liquidity caps are navigated, and how SpaceX—while technically private—is unusually “liquid.”

Quote:
"It's a private company, but it's pretty liquid. And it makes sense that everyone's paying attention to it."
—Katie Greifeld (12:56)

5. Closed-End Fund Activism Arrives in Crypto (“DATs”)

Timestamps: 13:56–22:03

• Closed-End Funds Refresher:
  The mechanics of closed-end fund activism, notable players (shout-out to Boaz Weinstein), and the strategy of buying discounted funds to liquidate or extract value.
• DATs (“Digital Asset Treasuries”):
  These are crypto-rich companies structurally similar to closed-end funds, now trading below the value of their holdings. Activists are circling, seeking to unlock the value gap.
• Lessons from Grayscale:
  Recalling grievances over trust discounts and the journey to ETF conversion, setting up expectations for similar activist drama among DATs.
• Implications of Bitcoin’s Volatility:
  With bitcoin’s recent plunge, DAT discounts are widening; buybacks or asset sales could further sway bitcoin’s unstable price, amplifying market volatility.

Notable Moment:
"If I pay $0.80, I can get a dollar worth of bitcoin. And the only problem is I got to crack open the pot and take out the bitcoin."
—Matt Levine (16:09)

• Potential for Activist Raids:
  Katie muses about Boaz Weinstein entering DAT activism—it’s the same trade as traditional closed-end fund activism, but “the rhetoric is different when you’re taking on a DAT CEO.” (21:39)

6. The "Death of Software": AI’s Threat to SaaS, Private Equity, and Credit Markets

Timestamps: 22:03–28:29

• SaaS as the New Risky Asset:
  Once considered rock-solid investments, recurring revenue SaaS companies are suddenly viewed as vulnerable to rapid AI progress—especially as AI tools duplicate formerly value-add software.
• Private Equity & Credit Exposure:
  The episode details how private equity and private credit—especially business development companies (BDCs)—are heavily weighted toward SaaS, often under the impression these were conservative cash-flow businesses.
• Shifting Market Sentiment:
  This week saw a minor panic, with BDC stocks selling off and portfolio risk under fresh scrutiny. The hosts caution against overreaction but identify real longer-term credit risk if AI continues eating into SaaS revenues.
• Index Classification:
  Software companies classified by use (e.g., in healthcare) may hide the true extent of exposure in credit portfolios.

Memorable Quotes:
"Turns out that a lot of business to business software is a thing that I can either replicate, you know, individually for each company or just...do the functions of."
—Matt Levine (22:18)

"Private credit is structurally a pretty safe business...But at the end of the day, the loans either pay off or they don't, right?"
—Matt Levine (27:58)

Notable Quotes Sourced by Timestamp

• [01:04] "I wanted to, like, free solo it. Yeah, but it was so cold." ― Matt Levine
• [02:54] "Elon Musk...from a glimmer in his eye to the deal is closed is like, I don't know, what, four days?" ― Matt Levine
• [08:26] "...one of his main dreams is to harness all of the energy of the sun." ― Matt Levine
• [16:09] "If I pay $0.80, I can get a dollar worth of bitcoin. And the only problem is I got to crack open the pot and take out the bitcoin." ― Matt Levine
• [22:18] "Turns out that a lot of business to business software is a thing that I can either replicate...or just...do the functions of." ― Matt Levine
• [27:58] "Private credit is structurally a pretty safe business...But at the end of the day, the loans either pay off or they don't, right?" ― Matt Levine

Episode Flow & Tone

The episode is brisk, irreverent, and generous with both technical explanation and dry wit—very much in keeping with the Money Stuff newsletter’s reputation. Matt and Katie’s repartee oscillates between incredulous skepticism (especially on space data centers and Muskian schemes) and genuine technical analysis of how market structure and corporate governance flex in the face of new technology and personality-driven finance.

Conclusion

For listeners looking to understand not just WHAT is happening in markets, but HOW and WHY those things are possible—and often, a bit ludicrous—this episode is a characteristically engaging, sarcastic, and ultimately informative romp through the state of modern finance. It succinctly traverses the evolving power structures behind tech deals, the implications of merging digital and traditional asset structures, and the existential unknowns swirling around AI, all while delivering plenty of dry laughs.