Money Stuff: The Podcast - Episode: Reptile Brain: ???, GS, XXI Release Date: April 25, 2025

Hosts:

• Matt Levine – Author of Bloomberg Opinion’s Money Stuff column
• Katie Greifeld – Bloomberg News reporter and Bloomberg Television anchor

Introduction to the Episode

In this engaging episode of Money Stuff: The Podcast, Matt Levine and Katie Greifeld delve deep into the tumultuous landscape of U.S. trade policy under the Trump administration, the volatility in the equity markets, and the internal dynamics at Goldman Sachs. The conversation is interspersed with light-hearted banter about Matt's pet turtles, providing a unique blend of humor and insightful financial analysis.

Segment 1: Reptile Brain and Turtles (00:24 - 04:35)

Matt Levine opens the episode with a personal anecdote about his pet turtles, drawing a humorous parallel between their simple reptilian instincts and his own desire for simplicity amidst complex financial discussions.

• Matt (02:06): "I feel like a lizard. Just simple."

Katie Greifeld engages with Matt’s reptilian musings, leading to a charming exchange about feeding the turtles mealworms, highlighting the hosts' chemistry and setting a relaxed tone for the episode.

Segment 2: U.S.-China Trade Relations and Tariffs (04:38 - 16:32)

The core of the episode centers around the chaotic and often contradictory U.S. trade policies under President Trump, particularly focusing on tariffs and their impact on the stock market and global trade relations.

Key Discussions:

• Contradictory Statements: Matt and Katie discuss Trump's conflicting messages about ongoing negotiations with China, which have led to market uncertainty.

  • Matt (04:15): "It seems like the market just really wants the Trump administration to blink and is rallying merrily along, hoping that they have."

• Market Volatility: They explore how the imposition and subsequent rollback of tariffs have created significant volatility in the markets, affecting both high-frequency traders and manufacturing CEOs.

  • Katie (07:36): "If you're a degenerate gambler, if you're a market maker, probably this is great. And then if you're a manufacturing CEO trying to decide whether to build a factory or that's great."

• Jerome Powell and Fed Independence: The discussion shifts to Trump's attempts to influence Federal Reserve policies by considering the removal of Jerome Powell, highlighting concerns over Fed independence.

  • Katie (05:02): "It also seems to have been walked back, but who knows?"

• Trump Put vs. Powell Put: Katie introduces the concept of the "Trump Put," contrasting it with the "Powell Put," and analyzes how Trump's market interventions differ in their impact and predictability.

  • Katie (06:18): "The Trump put that we've maybe seen this week feels like it's quite far out of the money."

Notable Quotes:

• Matt (09:20): "The end game is a question that comes up a lot when it comes to the shifting trade winds coming out of the administration."

• Katie (11:51): "It was just like, tariffs are good."

Segment 3: Goldman Sachs Leadership and Compensation (16:33 - 25:00)

The hosts transition to an in-depth analysis of recent developments at Goldman Sachs, focusing on the substantial retention bonuses awarded to CEO David Solomon and COO John Waldron.

Key Points:

• Retention Bonuses: Matt and Katie scrutinize the hefty $80 million retention bonuses, questioning their necessity given the already competitive compensation packages.

  • Katie (20:24): "They’re getting paid market rates. Why do they need the extra bonus?"

• Partner Culture Shift: The discussion highlights the shift from Goldman’s traditional partnership culture to a more conventional corporate structure, leading to internal resentment among partners.

  • Katie (24:15): "The partners, on the one hand, some of them resent being relegated to a second-tier status and no longer feeling that they run the firm."

• Alts Management Strategy: They explore Goldman’s strategic move to position itself as an alternative assets manager, comparing it to firms like Blackstone and KKR, and analyzing its impact on the company’s valuation.

  • Katie (24:39): "Goldman Sachs Asset Management, they have about $500 billion of private assets under management."

Notable Quotes:

• Matt (20:20): "I gotta tell you, I was biting my nails over this one."

• Katie (25:00): "They're a real. I remember being. I was at Goldman, I worked at Goldman more than 15 years ago."

Segment 4: Cryptocurrency and SPACs – The Case of XXI (25:01 - 40:35)

In a shift from traditional finance, the hosts examine the recent merger involving Cantor Fitzgerald’s SPAC and the creation of a publicly listed Bitcoin pool named XXI.

Key Discussions:

• SPAC Merger Mechanics: Matt explains how the merger between Cantor Fitzgerald’s SPAC and various Bitcoin holdings from Tether, Bitfinex, and Softbank results in a publicly traded Bitcoin pool valued at three times the actual Bitcoin price.

  • Matt (31:03): "You have a giant pot of bitcoin that is publicly listed because the SPAC has a public listing."

• Valuation Discrepancies: They analyze the market’s overvaluation of Bitcoin assets within the SPAC, questioning the sustainability of such a premium.

  • Katie (32:34): "We have a public listing for their pot of bitcoin, which is worth three times what the bitcoin is worth."

• Jack Maller’s Role: The conversation touches on Jack Maller’s dual role as CEO of both Strike and XXI, emphasizing his commitment to Bitcoin's growth.

  • Matt (34:44): "He truly believes his purpose on this planet is to try and help bitcoin have a chance to change the world."

Notable Quotes:

• Katie (37:39): "Be funny. This is not a business, this is a part of bitcoin."

• Matt (36:17): "We will never have negative bitcoin per share. At least that's our intent."

Segment 5: Closing Remarks and Turtles (40:35 - 41:58)

The episode concludes with Matt preparing to take his turtles outdoors, adding a personal and relatable touch to the financial-heavy discussions. Katie and Matt exchange final thoughts, reinforcing the blend of personal anecdotes and serious financial analysis that characterizes their podcast.

• Matt (40:28): "I've got turtles to go set out in the sun."

• Katie (40:35): "Go enjoy your mealworms."

Conclusion

This episode of Money Stuff: The Podcast offers a comprehensive exploration of U.S. trade policies under the Trump administration, the internal dynamics at Goldman Sachs, and innovative moves in the cryptocurrency space through SPACs. Matt Levine and Katie Greifeld adeptly balance technical financial discussions with personal stories, making complex topics accessible and engaging for listeners.

Notable Themes:

• Market Volatility: The unpredictable nature of political decisions and their direct impact on market stability.

• Corporate Culture Shifts: How traditional firms like Goldman Sachs are evolving in compensation and strategic focus.

• Cryptocurrency Innovations: The interplay between traditional finance mechanisms and the burgeoning crypto industry.

Overall, the episode serves as a valuable resource for anyone looking to understand the intricate dance between politics, corporate strategies, and emerging financial technologies.

Remember to subscribe to the Money Stuff Podcast wherever you listen and leave a review to support the show!