Founder Guest (3:11)

As a child, I remember being bored a lot of I just didn't have exposure to much and I think that was always a goal I had as a kid that, hey, I want to have exposure to the world and now

Jackie Lamport (3:20)

look how it's paid off.

Founder Guest (3:21)

Yeah, because that curiosity never left. And you know, maybe if I achieved some of that when I was younger, that I wouldn't have the desire when I'm older to do that.

Jackie Lamport (3:29)

It does make a lot of sense why this trait would be beneficial from the perspective of moving fast and being innovative. Because, yeah, I mean, you're willing to try new things and therefore you're doing new things. But I do think there's another layer to this. It's drive. Being driven by financial gain or success alone means that you kind of have to have a lot of perseverance, the ability to get through the maybe rough, stressful, boring parts. Also maybe just like a little bit of a knack for suffering, which, I mean, that's a bit harder to come by. But being curious and open minded means that you get to be driven or actually honestly kind of just pulled along by that trait that you have within you naturally. And it means that you are almost excited to continue to just try new things and fail and learn from that. And try again and then, oh, see this thing? And maybe do this one this time. And you're not giving up. And it's not because you have this, like, strong willpower that might eventually actually kind of get exhausting. It's more just because you just naturally want to. And being in constant pursuit of these new interesting things is how you end up doing new interesting things that are worthwhile because you just keep looking and eventually you'll find one. But there is a pretty notable downside here, and that's the whole shiny object syndrome thing. If you are just jumping around and looking at the new thing that's exciting, then you're not really actually seeing anything to fruition. So focus is going to be a very important trait to balance this with.

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Jackie Lamport (5:58)

Moving on to trait number two. We get the need for achievement. So that's the need to win. The need to prove to yourself and to others that you are capable. We've heard so many times on the show the same phrase. It's kind of funny now every time I hear it, just out in the wild, even I'm just like, yeah, Chip on your shoulder. They have a chip on their shoulder. Sam Parr jokes that he thinks every founder who is successful has some sort of bad breakup or somebody who has done them wrong in their past that has made them want to prove themselves so badly. But this isn't to be equated with financial gain. The financial part of this is really just a part of the scoreboard. And for a lot of founders, getting on that scoreboard has become kind of like a game. Actually, that's exactly how Ankar Nagpal describes it.

Sponsor Representative (6:41)

It's not even about the money. It's just like it feels like that's my sport in a way, and I want to play my sport and be the best I can at the sport I play.

Jackie Lamport (6:49)

And Malum said something similar.

Founder Guest (6:50)

There is a ridiculous drive that comes from somewhere, like I need to constantly outperform, outshine everybody to get people to accept and love me and be impressed by me. And that's, I think, where a lot of my drive came from. I had a lot to prove.

Jackie Lamport (7:08)

Okay. And there's an obvious point here to be made about how just a single one of these traits doesn't make a founder. It's how all of these things work together. Thinking about this need for achievement, pairing that with the openness thing that we already talked about here, it kind of makes sense that they go together so well. Because being open to new things and trying new things, that's a great way to, like we said, find the thing that's going to bring you success. But taking that to fruition is what's going to actually make you successful. So this need for achievement is going to help you actually get through the. Maybe the boring parts, because there will be boring parts.

Sponsor Representative (7:40)

I heard you say that in the one in your most recent video. You had the workshop in Hong Kong. It doesn't matter how shiny and sexy a business looks, three years in, it's going to be just as boring as the one you're already running.

Founder Guest (7:50)

Everything feels like work after a while.

Jackie Lamport (7:52)

Yeah. So these things work together. But that's only two traits so far. So we still have three to go. But I have to list the downside, the trait as well, because, yeah, I mean, in this case, you have to balance the need for achievement with recognizing that you have achieved things. If you are consistently moving the goalposts, then you're on this hamster wheel that is going to exhaust you in the end. And a lot of the founders that we've talked to who haven't been able to stop or slow down and actually just, like, appreciate what they've done. They end up kind of feeling empty after a while. So that's an important thing. This is a great driver. But don't be hard on yourself and stop moving goalposts. Celebrate your wins. Moving on to part three, we have agency and autonomy. Something I have heard a lot from founders on the show is the reason that they ended up being founders was that they just couldn't work for somebody else. They tried, and it just wasn't for them. And they just craved being autonomous, being their own boss. So they kind of almost had no choice but to be an entrepreneur. In fact, I would say that this freedom or this need to work for yourself is cited almost just as much as just financial gain or the need for success as a reason that people got started. And it's not even always something that they notice right away. It's something that they realize after they have tried to work for somebody else. Josh Payne was one person.

Founder Guest (9:12)

I hated that place. Or I hated, you know, working in corporate America.

Jackie Lamport (9:16)

Chuck was another.

Sponsor Representative (9:17)

The thought process was always like, don't really go work for someone. Try to go build something that has value.

Jackie Lamport (9:22)

Steve Houghton was another.

Founder Guest (9:24)

I learned that I didn't want to work in corporate America and that I just hated being under somebody's thumb.

Jackie Lamport (9:32)

Having agency and autonomy does insinuate that you're not only fully in charge of what you do, but you are fully liable for what happens as a result, good or bad. And this explains why this trait would lead to success, because you have more to gain and you have more to lose. So you kind of have a fire lit under you. And this is actually a feeling that a lot of the founders that we've spoken to post exit have described as missing. It's a lot harder to feel motivated when you have 10 million in the bank than it is when you got

Founder Guest (10:02)

nothing in the early days of a business. It's, like, exhilarating. The fire of motivation is there. You wake up every morning feeling like, yes, I'm, like, building this thing. And I feel like I'm still chasing that old fire of motivation that I used to have before.

Jackie Lamport (10:17)

But of course, there is always a balancing act. And obviously, if you are wanting to be too autonomous, then you have a hard time being detaching or delegating and just kind of relinquishing control a little bit, which can be a very difficult thing for founders, especially as they level up. Growth means trusting other people, because a successful business can't rely on the founder forever. A founder's job. Your job is to make the business run successfully independent from you. So yeah, you want to be in control, but you do eventually have to let it go. Of course, wanting autonomy and being controlling are not actually the same trait. There's just a bit of a sliding scale that they're both on in some way. Really, this is just about listening to the people that you've hired, trusting them, and letting go of some of that autonomy, maybe, and letting other people make decisions when they're better suited to make those decisions.

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Jackie Lamport (12:41)

Moving on to trait number four. We have emotional regulation and stress tolerance. This next part is basically just the willingness to go to therapy, which a lot of the founders that we've spoken to have described as a pretty essential part of their life. Running a business, being fully liable, having a bunch of People who are depending on you for their livelihood, that can be a lot of stress and pressure. Marshall Haas said as much.

Sponsor Representative (13:02)

You can delegate yourself all the way out, but when you get to that level, like it's no longer about the time that you're working on a thing, it's about the mind share that it takes up in your head.

Jackie Lamport (13:11)

Not everyone can handle that. So it becomes really, really important to have the skill and the willingness to, to be able to not push those things down, but to actively deal with them. On the research side, emotional stability and resilience were some of the most common predictors for success among founders. The founder job is basically a cycle of something goes wrong and you have to figure out how to deal with it. And then you deal with it and then it goes right and then something goes wrong and then you have to figure out how to deal with it. And it's a lot of ups and downs. And if you're not able to regulate through that, then your ability to make the right decisions is hindered and more importantly, your ability to execute on those decisions is hindered. Not only that, but you're a leader. So your team is also looking at you to be regulated so that it tells them that they can be calm and have faith in the process and things will work out. And something that's really important to note here is that that doesn't mean that you should be stoic or just like present as calm. You have to actually do it. You have to be active with it. And the founders who I've spoken to who have had success with this are the ones who are taking actionable steps like therapy, like journaling, like meditation, like taking time for themselves to make sure that they're able to handle things in the work life. Because if you just kind of try to tough it out, then I mean, that doesn't go away. It's going to come up eventually. This is what Ryan Beagleman said.

Founder Guest (14:29)

Like in my case, I was trying to be a quantumist, right? I want it to be like the stoic, manly, even keeled. Nothing bothers me, you know, because I'm the leader. I need to stay cool, calm and collected at all times. When actually like things were bothering, you know, there would be things bothering me. And I wish I had learned a little earlier to just have a little bit more self kindness, to have more self knowledge, to know some of what sort of I'm sensitive to some things that maybe don't bother other people, but bother me and then assert my needs a little more. Have A little bit more boundaries around certain behaviors I don't want to put up with.

Jackie Lamport (15:01)

For this last part, we're going to go back to the point that I made at the very beginning of this. Risk isn't something that is to be romanticized. Successful founders don't have a reckless approach to risks. This isn't a game about consistently taking big swings and putting it all on the line because it might pay off. Sure, it pays off for some people, but for the majority, it doesn't. In reality, what is actually a recurring trait is the ability to recognize when big risks need to be taken and be able to manage it when you do have to do it. When risk was discussed in the research, it was pretty heavily disagreed upon. But there was something interesting from a study in 2010 that showed that a propensity for risk was very weakly correlated with business success, but it did support business foundation. What does recur across the research, though, is that successful founders are pretty comfortable with uncertainty. They are able to make decisions under ambiguity. They don't need all of the information. And particularly when you're making big decisions, that can feel risky. But here they just have the tolerance for that. They're able to accept that and move forward. And that is the trait that's important. And when taking risks, you do want to make sure that you're protecting your base. You don't want to just always be putting everything on the line because that's kind of sloppy. So the takeaway here isn't be a risk taker. It's be comfortable with uncertainty and be calm and emotionally stable when risks come up so that you can take them when they're needed. Here's something that I noticed that a lot of these traits have in common. More than things that are going to make them good at business, these are traits that drive founders to continue working towards success. If I were to have written this episode solely from my perspective, I would have said that grit and persistence were the most important traits of a founder. Because no matter what your strengths are, there are always going to be weaknesses. And there's not really a perfect formula for what a successful founder looks like. The real winning comes from always working through the rough parts, not letting them bring you down. And if something goes wrong and it does bring you down, you get back up and you just keep trying. And that's kind of the pattern that I've seen from everybody that we've spoken to. They've all had their ups and downs, but the most common thing was that they all just kept going. I swear you're the gold I've been running. And if you're listening to this right now and you're thinking, wow, I keep going also, and I'm about to see that success in maybe the form of an exit. You should check out our video of what happens when you actually do exit for like $10 million or something. Because most founders, it's not what they were expecting. You can listen to that episode by clicking here.