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- [00:00]
A
Some people would see 100 million and think, wow, that guy did something right.
- [00:05]
B
Yeah, but what if he's giving half of it away?
- [00:07]
A
And so when Xcel KKR acquired Tithely, are you at liberty to disclose the amount that that acquisition was for?
- [00:13]
B
Yeah, it's not in the public sphere, but it's in the hundreds of millions on how can you not bless that person? You know, if you have the means. And so I don't know if you've seen there's this cool thing, I think it's Instagram still. But that's the tips for Jesus where they literally leaving like $5,000 tips. So now I get to the point I own is not my own.
- [00:35]
A
That is Dean Sweetman. He spent 30 years as a pastor, then in his 50s, he built a software company for churches and sold it in a deal worth hundreds of millions of dollars. In this episode, he tells me his actual net worth. He walks me through exactly where everydollar sits and he tells me about the one thing he does the same week every wire hits before he even touches a scent of it. Something that most people in his position would actually call insane. There's also something he does to strangers in airports. We'll get to that. I get to talk to founders just like Dean inside of Hampton, a private network for high growth founders who are doing 25 million a year on average. If that's you, you need to check out joinhampton.com now let's get into the show. I'm Daniel Burke. Here's Dean Sweetman on Money Wise. Dean, thanks so much for joining us today on Moneywise.
- [01:22]
B
Great to be here.
- [01:23]
A
I'm excited to learn a bit about who you are and to really elaborate on some of what you've done. I think before we get into anything, what you built I think is more of a payment processor that happened to serve churches. Right? Is that how you would describe it to someone?
- [01:39]
B
Yep. Yeah, we, we started out in 2015 with the Express goal of making giving easier for, for the local church. And so that was the, the mission still is today, although we do some other things these days that probably chat about. But essentially how can we facilitate easy, fast, inexpensive giving solutions for the local church? And we got going strong in 2015.
- [02:08]
A
And when you launched in 2015, did you have any inkling that it would one day become what it has now, 11 years later?
- [02:15]
B
Yeah, not really. I mean, I had pretty big plans and you know, I came from the side of the business side of church, understanding how churches function, how income and revenue and Expenses work inside of a church. Groucho. Not dissimilar to a business, but with some nuance. And then I just became a quick study around payments and moving money. And I had this experience that I tell a story. Back in 2013, I walked into a Starbucks. The iPhone had come out, the app store was just taking shape. And the Starbucks app, you know, I put it on my phone, I put my credit card in the app, which back then is. Was pretty bold. And then I went to this local Starbucks and held up the barcode and out came the ticket. And the girl really didn't know what. You know, we both didn't know if it was going to work. And so the ticket comes up and I'm like, man, church giving should be that easy. And so that was, that was kind of the early seeds of the idea. And then we officially got going in 2015.
- [03:16]
A
And you were a pastor for 30 years before launching Tithely, correct?
- [03:21]
B
Correct. Yeah, I did about 10 years based in Australia, grew up in Australia, did missions into Asia and Africa for about 10 years. Supported myself through real estate development and other other ways. And then in 96 family, we moved to Atlanta, Georgia to plant a church. Brand new church, kind of a modern evangelical, pretty standard church, you know, that you might see these days. But it took off, did very well and then. But I was always fascinated by business. I always loved business. I always kind of thought one day I'd be back. What I didn't realize is that my love for God and the preaching of the gospel and the growing of the kingdom and business would collide in this way in which I've been working in the last 10 or 11 years, which is essentially creating increase in revenue streams for the local church so they can fulfill the mission.
- [04:17]
A
When you think of yourself, do you think of yourself more as a business person or more of a pastor that became a business person?
- [04:23]
B
Yeah, I think, you know, obviously what I do day in, day out is business. But I like to think that my values as a Christian drive the decisions that I make to run the business. And so definitely, you know, I'm a business person. First P&L's and balance sheets and, you know, budgets and all the things that a business has to run the business well, keeping an eye on, you know, OPEX and Capex and Headcount and, you know, all the things that we do. And so that has to be done with excellence. But it doesn't mean you don't have a soul and that you don't care for people and that you don't want the best for people and that you don't treat people how they should be treated. And so I like to kind of overlay my values that I get from Christianity to work in and around, you know, daily in, in the running of the business.
- [05:11]
A
That's great. And with this acquisition, it's Excel KKR that acquired Tithely. Tell me what happened and were you chasing that acquisition or did they approach you originally?
- [05:23]
B
We'd had some investment, some outside investment over the years. Just, you know, we. I had a personal conviction that I, I wanted the business to grow faster. I think payments is generally a commoditized business eventually. And you can put payments on top of software, which is what we do. Eventually that gets commoditized down to, you know, the cost of running a payment. And so we had to add value and we do that with, you know, SaaS software on top of the payments. But yeah, it was just a matter of, you know, the business. I wanted to grow faster and so that required capital. So we took some outside capital, which is both good for the business and the founders. You know, we, we took money off the table along the way, through which I would always advise young founders, as long as their business is in the right place to where they're, you know, have some ebitda, they're growing. Obviously, you know, to be able to take some off the table and to reward maybe 2, 3, 5 years of hard work for you and your senior team, I think is a good thing for the business. And so we continued to do that. And then about three years ago, it became pretty apparent that the particular vision of which, you know, and Frank, my partner and I, that we had of where we wanted the business to go was we believed the all in one solution was something that we think our customers want. When I say all in one, there's not just the payments underlying. There's database management, there's media, there's apps, there's websites, there's kind of all the things that you use. Child check in, volunteer management, event management, facilities management, like all these, you know, things, right? Text communications, email communication. The thought of putting all that bonded into one software solution was where we thought everything was going. And so we knew we'd have to acquire some businesses. We knew we were going to keep building software. We spend millions on R and D every year. And it just became apparent to be able to do what we really felt like we were supposed to do was going to need some outside capital. And our friends at Excel, Cacao, kind of came along you know, when you do this long enough, you do get contacted a lot by private equity and investors to, and you know, they hear about the business and they hear it growing and they want to jump on the train, right, because that those trains leave the station and they make a lot of money for the early investors. And so, you know, we were kind of at that point, you know, three years ago, we were in the tens of thousands of customers. We had a wonderful business. But since joining forces with xlkkr, we've backseat so access to capital, obviously massive. And we've been able to make some very strategic acquisitions that we could have made but it just would have been more difficult because apart from working the deal, you're going to go and find the money at the right terms that you know is going to be good for your business. And so having a partner that we trusted to be able to play that role for us has allowed us to make some really great acquisitions in the last couple of years and you know, we're going to continue to do so.
- [08:27]
A
And what was the acquisition amount?
- [08:29]
B
These were businesses, you know, from 20, 30, 40, 50, 80 million dollar range. So they're not, they're not huge huge, but they're not small. You know, These are typically five 10 million dollar revenue businesses with 15 to 25% growth profitable. You know, we have this thing in private equity called the rule of 40. It's the percent percentage of growth essentially. You know, once you get a business in that rule of 40 zone, we start looking at these companies, rule of 50, rule of 60. And so there's the business kind of decision, but there's also the group of people. You know, our playbook has been we don't just want to buy the business and say goodbye to the staff. We want them to come along for the next part of the journey which is all of us together doing it bigger, better, stronger, all the things. And so we love keeping the founders, we want the founders to stay involved. And so we've said no to a few deals where the founders just want to leave. And that's, that's not our playbook. We, we want to come alongside founders. We want to, you know, putting software together is difficult and making it work and making it seamless and making sure the user doesn't get confused when they're in one different part of the software to the other. So that takes work and then there's, you know, there are savings along the way when, when you do mergers and acquisitions usually in finance first and then, and then other areas become apparent. And, you know, but we're not in the business of buying a company and firing everyone. We actually want everyone. We want everyone to stay.
- [10:00]
A
And so when Excel KKR acquired Tithely, are you at liberty to disclose the amount that that acquisition was for?
- [10:06]
B
Yeah, it's not in the public sphere, but it's in the, I mean, it's in the hundreds of million zone. It's like, okay, more than 500 million in that zone.
- [10:15]
A
Okay. And what was your ownership stake in Tithely at the acquisition?
- [10:19]
B
Still pretty, pretty decent percentage.
- [10:21]
A
More than 40%?
- [10:22]
B
Yeah. Between two or three partners, you know, we had about that. You know, we just, we, we'd solve little chunks of the business along the way, but we'd. Sure, you know, and we got. When you do a deal like this, you, you kind of, there's an, you know, liquidity event, as it's known. So you, there's a portion of what you get up front, then you're rolling stock over into the new entity.
- [10:45]
A
And was there an earnout period or was it all just.
- [10:47]
B
There was zone out? Yep. So there's those three components. Right. And so, so you hit these zone outs, but really you, you want that stock, right, because you're going to get up every day and you want to be stakeholders, you want to be shareholders, certainly at the seed suite. And basically that's, you know, it's a motivator to tape what is a great business. And maybe we can grow this Forex, which is a, you know, a good PE firm is going to be thinking they want to Forex their money in five to seven years and, you know, you just get on the pathway to being more efficient, obviously growing, you know, driving different parts of the business that might be doing well in this season and then, you know, other parts of the business are doing well in another season. And it's just making sure you can keep all the plates spinning as, as, as hard as you can and keep driving forward. But you definitely, you know, it's about making a profit and, and doing well. And, you know, it's interesting, our customer is the church, essentially, and we've always prided ourselves in offering what we feel like is the best solution for the lowest price. We give away, giving the platform for free. It's just the transaction fee. We don't charge a monthly SAS fee. On top of that, we. And that's 40,000 of our churches, our customers. That's. We make money only if they process, you know, volume. We do sell other SaaS products. Of course, that, that is only about 80% of the revenue. But you're essentially, you know, you. You're taking these businesses and you want to acquire new businesses that are adjacent, that you can integrate, that you can go and kind of merge together and, you know, do all the. Have all the benefits that that gives. But you're in business, and so you're. It's unique. We're serving the church, but we also are a company that, you know, makes a profit.
- [12:30]
A
Sure. So safe to say 500 million is a good range for the sale and your ownership stake. I would. I'm curious what personally hit your bank account at the deal closing?
- [12:41]
B
Yeah, a lot.
- [12:43]
A
You know, we're talking 100 million.
- [12:45]
B
No, no, it's because I rolled a lot over. Right. But we're very comfortable. We own homes in Park City and Beverly H. We kind of go back to them forwards, mostly because of grandchildren. We've got more grandkids in Nashville.
- [12:56]
A
It's closer to the 50 million mark or I guess, where's that range?
- [13:00]
B
Yeah, but here's the thing for us. Me personally, I'm not measuring my success. Right. On. On amounts. I'm.
- [13:09]
A
But some people would see 100 million and think, wow, that guy did something right.
- [13:14]
B
Yeah. But what if you're giving half of it away?
- [13:17]
A
Exactly. So I am curious, how much of that are you giving away? I know, you know, practice what you preach is, you know, the. The very perfect moment for someone who is a pastor and built a giving app. So I'm curious what hit your bank account? If you can give me a range, that would be helpful. And then, you know, I would love to know personally how much of that you have or plan to give away.
- [13:38]
B
So we. It's like many millions of dollars, but we have a separate donor advice fund. So if there's a liquidation event in any given year, a DAF allows you to. You're allowed to put money in that DAP from stock you've sold, and if there's a capital gain from that stock, you get that tax free. You don't have to pay tax on that gain. It goes into the dap. And then you make donations to charities from there. So every time we've had an event, 10% of what we get goes into the daft.
- [14:11]
A
Okay. And that DAF is your personal daft with your wife or.
- [14:15]
B
Or.
- [14:15]
A
Okay, so. Okay, cool.
- [14:17]
B
But we don't benefit at all from that. That all goes to, like, we support a lot of missions. You know, just. Just yesterday I got a note from a friend. They're doing incredible mission Work in Uganda, which is a place where I used to go as a missionary. And so. And now they're setting up stuff in Cambodia. They're doing stuff around sex tracking. So that's the kind of thing that we love to give to. And then church planting, church buildings, you know, all of that kind of stuff. So we, so as soon as there's an event, we take that 10% and then boom, that goes in the DA and it's distributed to registered charities only. You got to be have a tax ID and you can't just kind of funnel it where you want. And then on top of that, what we committed to do is we have some other things that we love. Supporting veterans. There's a big charity here in town that basically looks after vets versus that have lost limbs. And it takes them, it puts them in these chairs and they actually ski down the mountain to Park City.
- [15:12]
A
Oh, cool.
- [15:12]
B
And I'm skiing one day and I'm seeing the joy on this guy's face and it was just one of the most powerful things. And I came home, I said, honey, we've got to, you know, we've got to help do something here. And we're going to do a charity event next week. So there's that and then, man, there's just opportunities to be personal and generous. You know, you get, I'm a bit of a sucker for, you know, single mothers, man, that struggle and work hard and raising couple kids. And I'm on planes a lot. You're probably on planes a lot. You're going through the airport, you're sitting there, you're having a, you know, burger or something. And typically there's going to be a single mother who's serving you a burger and a beer. And you know, and I'm, and I, I talk to everyone. So I start yakking and talking and then before five minutes I kind of got half a rife story. Well, how can you not bless that person, you know, if you have the memes. And so I don't know if you've seen, there's this cool thing, I think it's Instagram still. But it's the Tips for Jesus where they literally, right, leaving like $5,000 tips. That, that is extremely fun.
- [16:17]
A
And so what's the largest tip you've left? 10. Wow. And I imagine, do you watch the reaction or do you leave before they react?
- [16:26]
B
I try to leap before they react.
- [16:28]
A
Yeah. Because that's a life changing amount of money for so many people.
- [16:31]
B
And so. And on the occasions where whatever you know, they're in shock.
- [16:36]
A
Like, they're instantly, oh, tears, I'm assuming. I mean, how do you even react to that?
- [16:41]
B
It's unbelievable. And it's like, literally, oh, I can pay rent this month or I can like life and death things. Right. That are like, pressing in their world. And so when you have the ability to do that stuff, man, how can you not? And so, yeah, and that's not, that's not tax deductible. That's not, that's not anything other than, you know, in my mind, it's just continuing to commit to the generous lifestyle and, you know, I've got all the stuff I need. And I like nice things. People that have money have nice things. I like to spend money on things that, you know, I like. And. Or maybe you're an investment or maybe it's a watch or maybe it's a vacation or maybe whatever. But I would feel tremendously guilty if the things I can accumulated were kind of like, you know, beyond the house and the basics that I, that I want. But, but the stuff that we collect, I'd be disappointed if that stuff that I collect is more than what I give away.
- [17:45]
A
Yeah. And I want to, I want to dig more into the generosity aspect. I think that's unique and special. I'd love to understand from that acquisition first, where does that leave your overall net worth?
- [17:56]
B
I mean, now net worth is, you know, even though I'm still working and, you know, we're, we're a couple years away from kind of the next kind of phase of what we're going to do with the business. So I get up every day, I'm at the office by 8. I usually stay here till 6. And I could not, I could just hack it all up and have happily ever after. Especially when you have a market like 2026. Right. You're like, I'm watching this going, this is crazy. I know, I know. And like just the whole year, I mean, I think this, this quarter, most of the indexes are up 15, 20%. That's, that's not going to last. Like, I'm not here to give financial advice to anyone, but anyone who's been around a little bit. And I'm 62 now and I've lived through a few 1987 and 2002. I've lived through recession. There is this frothiness that starts to come into the market that we may or may not be at, depending on how you believe AI and what, what all that's going to do moving forward. But it Feels like to me, we're peaking a little bit, like, with the stock market. So I could not. But even. It doesn't matter what stock market does. I'm. I'm not all in stocks. You know, I'm doing.
- [19:06]
A
So if you had to give a number of your net worth, you know, you had to give a number or a range, what would that roll up?
- [19:13]
B
Oh, my gosh, I could. I could almost go to any country in the world and live happily ever after.
- [19:20]
A
So we're talking 75 million, 100 million, 150 million.
- [19:25]
B
It's more than you can, like, think. You don't. You know, there's a point where you think about money and then you stop thinking about money.
- [19:32]
A
Sure. And what was that point for you?
- [19:34]
B
Like, 10?
- [19:35]
A
Okay.
- [19:36]
B
But then.
- [19:36]
A
So it's more of the time.
- [19:37]
B
Oh, yeah. But then there's another point where you really don't, like, now you have to intentionally spend the money wisely.
- [19:43]
A
Sure.
- [19:44]
B
Because now, you know, once you get past 20 and 30, you start. Money's just going. Going everywhere.
- [19:50]
A
Yeah.
- [19:51]
B
And, oh, this is 500amonth, and that's 300amonth. And we just bought this thing and, oh, we need a new car. And, like, the money does. You can so. And I know plenty of much richer people than I am billionaires, and they're, they live on budget.
- [20:08]
A
Yeah.
- [20:08]
B
And it's not like they might have bigger things. You know, I got a buddy, he's got his Gulf Stream 650, and it's 20 grand an hour to fly that thing. And. But it's not like, oh, I'm just going to go jump on the plane when I feel like and fly six hours and blow 150 grand. Like, he's like, well, I'm at a business thing here. I'm going to go visit two companies, and I might take two hours to go to the Bahamas on the way home with my family. Right. But it's never just. I'm just going to just spend money like crazy. I'm sure there are people that are like that. But everything I've read, even billionaires, it's not like they want to know where the money's going.
- [20:43]
A
Oh, of course.
- [20:44]
B
There really is a point. And call it 10, 20, 30, depending on your lifestyle. Once you get into that kind of number, it almost doesn't matter after that. And like, I don't want a big boat. I don't want to. I don't want any of that. But I know that my investments are going to spit off 10% a year. Without thinking. So like that's, that's just going to keep going forever.
- [21:07]
A
Yeah. Yeah. So are you, are you willing to give a number on, on that? Just give me a range. It can be a big range.
- [21:13]
B
I think we're, you know, I think we're the under 50, about 30 range.
- [21:18]
A
Okay, under 50, above 30. So with that you're, you're incredibly generous, which is awesome. I want to dig into that a little bit more. But tell me what a monthly personal spending habit looks like. I mean where, really, I'm curious where that 30 to 50 million is in liquid versus illiquid assets. You mentioned real estate. Would love to understand that. But also just your, your personal spending. I mean where is the money going month to month?
- [21:43]
B
Yeah. So we have, you know, a private wealth manager that basically manages the money and then we have like a Wells account, Right. That we live out of that my pay goes into and, or we might need to do some landscaping around the house and it's 40 grand or whatever. Like we're going to pull that out of, you know, the private. And put it in just a Wells account that we can use daily. But the investor is mostly all liquid like this. I've done some opportunity zones, I've done some commercial real estate. Less liquid, more long term set and forget. I still invest in small companies. I got probably six angel investments out there.
- [22:21]
A
Okay.
- [22:22]
B
Doing well. One of them's gonna do really well. Yeah, I'd say, I can't say a lot right now, but yeah, it's gonna be a killer. I don't think it's gonna be all of tively. It might come close though. Like it's pretty, pretty cool anyway. And so, so that, that world just churns. Then you have your budget, right? And I still get a paycheck. Then you have your budget, you live within that budget. And you know, my wife who's a lawyer does most of the books and kind of manages day to day and she does it for her brother too. She just. That way she's kind of genius. So I don't really look at day to day bills, but I do look at the statements. End of the month I go money in, money out, surplus, good month, you know, and, and it's like, and if we have a big purchase here or there, you know, we, we do it and we don't think about it, we don't feel guilty about it, but we're living within a means that's so that. And so then that's kind of the investment side. Real estate the only two main real estate investments I have now, my homes.
- [23:23]
A
So you have a primary in Park
- [23:25]
B
City and primary in Park City and a vacation home in California.
- [23:28]
A
In California. So you're primarily in Park City, but then vacation in California.
- [23:32]
B
Yeah, correct.
- [23:33]
A
Those commercial real estate investments, those are.
- [23:35]
B
They're more part of the trust. They're in trusts that are part of, you know, the private wealth side of things. So I didn't. How much is in real estate total of the percentage? Under 5%.
- [23:46]
A
Probably under 5%. Okay.
- [23:47]
B
Yeah.
- [23:48]
A
And then where's the other 95%?
- [23:49]
B
All. All liquid stock. Liquid.
- [23:52]
A
Okay. All right, money wise listeners, quick reality check. It's that time of year when you catch yourself thinking, why didn't I start earlier? We knew summer was coming. It always does. And if you keep doing what you usually do, you'll blink and it'll be New Year's again. Same story, same body, same excuses. That's why today's sponsor is Daily Body Coach. Daily Body Coach is a premium online coaching service for ambitious entrepreneurs and executives who want their body to perform at the same level as their business. Training is built around your schedule. Nutrition is built around your specific needs. There are clear targets and clear metrics. And most importantly, there's no guesswork, just science and a multidisciplinary team covering training, nutrition, and the psychology behind behavior change. Daily Body Coach is run by Anthony Monica, who's a Hampton member himself. And in fact, a bunch of other Hampton members are using it and have been showing great results. Yes, you'll look better this summer. Leaner, stronger, sharper. But the real win is that you'll stop carrying a body that's taxing your energy, confidence, and longevity. If you're serious about fat loss, muscle gain, and building a body that supports your standards, don't think about it, don't bookmark it, don't push it to Monday. Click the link in the description and I'll hook you up with Anthony directly. Check out DailyBodyCoach.com Moneywise. That's DailyBodyCoach.com Moneywise and primarily in indexes. Or are we talking about 50%, 50%
- [25:26]
B
indexed for safe, probably 20% bonds floating around in edge. At any given moment, you know, you're buying them and selling them. And then I'm pretty bullish on tech, which is my most risky. You know, that's at my age, I'm probably risking the most on continuing to invest in tech and of course, AI and all the things, you know, mag seven.
- [25:47]
A
So like 20, 25, then in tech Is the remainder okay with the personal spending? What is that, you know, to your mortgage and do you have a house cleaner? Health and wellness? I mean, what does that look like month to month?
- [26:02]
B
Yeah, we went down to almost no mortgages. So we like you get offered a lot of money for credit. And I just have this thing about, you know, I, I know the economics. Hey, I'm going to borrow money at 6%, but I'm going to go make 10. So the arbitrage is the 4 and I'm ahead. But sometimes you just want to go to bed and not have to think about what the market's doing to get that 4%.
- [26:27]
A
Sure.
- [26:27]
B
And so we've chosen to minimize debt as much as possible. We don't do car leases. We don't do, we don't do any of that.
- [26:37]
A
You just buy it all outright.
- [26:38]
B
Buy it all outright. And you know, we bought a car for my life when it was five years old and we bought it, it was time to get a new one. We bought the same car, the difference was 50 grand, 5 years, 10 grand a year. That's less than a lease. And I just kind of gave back the keys and got the new one and it cost me less. And so like there's, so we just find that's an easier way for us to live. Plus, I don't want to be paying 50 bills, you know, even though I can autopilot. We just, we feel good about less debt. And so that's kind of the way we live. And over time, what we've done as has, you know, we've experienced influx. We just keep pounding the debt. Now we carry some, but as a proportion of our, you know, net worth, it's much less than most people. Like, and we're talking like 5% now.
- [27:28]
A
I'm curious about the, the generosity and the giving. How does that play into your overall monthly burn?
- [27:36]
B
Yeah, we're probably at, we're 10, 10 minimum. And when I say when, it's more weekly yearly giving rather than monthly. So the annual, if the annual is not over 15%, we haven't done it right. That's kind of in that zone where we're at. And so, you know, whether to the daft or whether it's just to being generous or whether it's just helping people, deduction or no deduction. I'm not really there for the deduction. It's good to get when you get it, but, but if I really feel, oh, I want to support this, I'm not going to, oh, how do I Make it a tax deduction. It's like, no, I'm just going to, you know, go and support it because that's what the right thing to do is. But yeah, it's, you know, it's all, that's just all, man. I think the, the same principles that when you first have a job and you're earning a thousand bucks a week and you're paying your rent, your car payment, your food and your entertainment and all the things, and you're left with 150 bucks, right? That doesn't change a whole like the amounts change. But the thinking of I'm going to live within a budget, it's the same. You're not. It's just because I can, I can go to the supermarket and buy something that's not on the kind of the list, right? Or I can, if I'm at Home Depot and I want some tool or something, I'm not going to nickel and D myself to death. I'm just go buy it. But I'm not, I, I want, I still want discipline in my spending habits. And I think a lot of times. And look, most of the guys that have been very successful that I know, same, they disciplined spending habits so they're not just throwing money around.
- [29:12]
A
When you got that initial wire from the Tithely acquisition, I'm curious, was your, was your initial thought, this is what I'm going to buy, or was it this is how much I'm going to give away? And I know the right answer is the latter, but I'm curious, like, what did you actually do that day that you came into, you know, tens of millions of dollars personally?
- [29:33]
B
Yeah, you know, it's, it's funny, like we didn't have the daft at the time and the first thing we did was create the daft. Really?
- [29:41]
A
And that day, or that week rather
- [29:43]
B
that way, yeah, we'd had like, we'd had account set up for money to be deposited into and then as we were doing that, we had the daft set up too. It was almost like simultaneous. And we had to make the decision this one. And there's, you know, we have different trusts and it's all the money we spend to manage the older trusts and, and all that is a lot, but we have to.
- [30:05]
A
How much do you know?
- [30:06]
B
It's a lot. It's thousands of dollars a year just to keep it all managed and minimize tax. Right. I don't want to give the government money. I don't have to, especially some government. Some governments don't spend it Very well. I'm not going to do that if I don't have to. But I remember we set the DAF up and then we had to distribute the wires, and that was a pretty cool moment.
- [30:26]
A
The same week the exit money landed, Dean wired $1.5 million into a DAF he could never take back. DAF is a donor advised fund, a charitable giving account that lets you receive an immediate tax deduction, grow your donation tax free, and support your favorite nonprofits whenever you're ready. This is not something you decide to do in the moment. He decided it years earlier. He's been giving away money generously ever since he started earning income, which is what made giving that much money away that much easier, almost second nature. These are the kinds of things I hear inside of the Hampton community constantly. Not how do I get to the exit, but what's the plan for the week the money actually hits? Most people don't actually have a plan, but Dean did. Check out joinhampton.com if you want to be in those rooms.
- [31:12]
B
Because we took 10, which is a lot of money, more money than I maybe ever made in my life, and we gave it to.
- [31:19]
A
Do you remember how much exactly? That was?
- [31:21]
B
I think one and a half million.
- [31:23]
A
Yeah. And you just put into the daff.
- [31:25]
B
And once it's in, it's gone. Because I get the deduction that year and now I've got time to distribute it. I don't have to give it all away that year. That's one of the benefits of it. That's a pretty interesting moment, man. When you're faced with, oh, I'm distributing wealth to that trust and that trust, and that trust is going to own that home and you're doing all the things and then like, oh, now I'm going to fund the death. And in that whole mix, it's a pretty. It's a pretty cool moment.
- [31:51]
A
How involved are you personally in that process versus someone managing it for you and just giving you updates.
- [31:56]
B
I am very involved in the distribution, so probably even a bit more than my wife. Like, I have a penchant for supporting missionaries. And because I did missions for 10 years and so, and church painting, I'm pretty, you know, very committed to church buildings. You know, make the contributions there. So I'm, I'm driving that mostly. And like we do, we do big amounts rather than lots of little ones, you know, that people. I, if, if I'm going to give someone 50k, it's because I trust them, I know them, I know what they're doing. I taught them how to communicate to me and other high net worth individuals that are donors and you know, I'm going to give to things that I believe in and support. But it might be six checks a year. Right? Right.
- [32:44]
A
Yeah, yeah. You call yourself a biblical capitalist. What does that mean?
- [32:48]
B
Oh yeah, well, I believe in, I believe in the free market and I think, you know, and I'm a student of history. I've obviously I, I've studied the Bible, you know, cover to cover for many, many, many years. A Jesus follower here coming on 40 years. So I think I have a fair understanding of what the Bible teaches around things like personal choice, individual rights, me. You know, there's a lot of scripture teaching about helping the pork. In the New Testament especially and in the Old, the mistake most people make is they don't know where the money comes from to actually help the poor. So if you go back to bid like fast backwards to a time when you a government couldn't print money, which is the only two ways we get money today is we print it. And in the case of the United States in the last 10 years, we printed a lot of it or it's taxed from people, it's taken from people who work a job. I personally work for the government till about July 4th. That's how much tax I pay. Right? Yeah. And then you, what you have is the money that the government gets from taxation, then they chop it up and they go and spend some on schools and they spend some on law and order, and they spend some on the military and they spend some on health. And that's all my tax dollars. Okay, so go back 2000 years before you could print money. And before there was a real, like there was temple tax the Romans taxed. But the system was very much rigged for the person who paid the tax. They weren't necessarily getting anything back. Maybe they're getting an army so they didn't get like taken over by the Gauls or something. But they're not getting a lot. They're not getting a lot of social services. There's no, oh, I lost my job, where's my paycheck? There's no medical, there's no nothing. You're not getting a lot. But then Jesus comes along, he says, hey, I want you to care for the poor. And it's like, okay. So if you start to think about that, and it's a recurring theme in the New Testament, if I'm commanded as a Christ follower to help those in need, by definition that must mean I have more than I need. And that is a purely capitalistic thought.
- [35:08]
A
Sure.
- [35:08]
B
The socialist thought is I'm going to have just enough what I need and someone else is going to make the decision for me to take some of my money and distribute it other places. But I didn't have any control. That's called, that's called theft, which is the basis of socialism. I don't have it. And I think we should all be equal because I think that feels good. So you're going to go work hard. I might not even work as hard. I might just work 20 hours a week and I'm out here working 60 hours a week. And you're going to come along because I've worked harder and I had more and you're going to take some and give it to someone who maybe didn't even work at all. So I think the Bible is very clear about self responsibility. If you look at the parable of the good Samaritan, doesn't get any better. The guy's minding his own business. These two other guys rob this guy, gone down from Jericho. These religious guys walk past this Samaritan and you know, we don't have to get into the debts of the Jews and the Samaritans, but they didn't like each other. And there's a story really behind the story how you can have two hated groups and still do good for one another. And so the, the Samaritan is coming along and he sees the guy, he's beat up, he's bleeding all things. So it says, oh, he bandaged him up, put him on his donkey and he took him to an inn and he said, take care of this man. And I'm going on a journey and when I come back, if it's any more that has to get paid for his care, I'll take care of it. Okay, step back. If the Samaritan didn't have extra, how could he have helped the person? He couldn't. So the idea that, you know, we think, well, we want to take all of this, this pool of money that people create and we want to distribute it out is, is not, it's not scriptural, it's not how it's explained. It's always the, the giver decides. And then Paul goes into it deeply. You as the donor decide where you want to give. I don't get to tell you where to give. And it all comes back to personal liberties and, you know, self reliance and making the right decisions. If I make wrong decisions, they have certain consequences. I make right decisions, they have other consequences. So it's me continuing to make right decisions that allow me to keep moving towards a better life and providing for my family and doing all the things. If I'm lazy, I'm called a wicked fool. In the Old Testament, Paul says, if you don't work with your hands, you're worse than an infidel. So we value hard work in Christianity. That biblical work ethic that has really pervaded American culture for 250 years is, comes from the Bible where we work hard and we honor work and we honor God with our work. And then if God blesses us, we have extra. And then now we're able to do some good. And you can't do that under any other system other than capitalism.
- [38:11]
A
That's interesting. How do you, you write a lot about stewardship and I'm hearing some, you know, some different patterns here that have to do with stewardship. How do you think about what happens to your money when you're gone?
- [38:24]
B
Yeah, it's gone. I'm not going to benefit. You know, you can't take it with you, as the saying goes. And you know, go back 3,000 years and all those Egyptian kings are buried with all their gold and all got stolen. Some, someone else got the benefit. They didn't get to touch it. So of course you're not touching anything in the afterlife that you make here. So, you know, even if you look at like the Bill Gates of the world and the Warren Buffetts and you know, Michael Dell watching him, we have this thing in America now where they're trying to give, you know, kids that are just born like a, an account so they can actually be in the market from when they're born. And then, and you know, Michael Dell comes along and says his 7 billion, I want to top that up, right? And it's like seeing, I think there's a beautiful spirit of generosity that's, you know, you hear all the negatives about the greed in American business especially, but there's a lot of good that happens. So Michael Dell comes along, he starts building computers in his dorm room. 40 years ago, he's standing with his wife writing a $7 billion check. So underprivileged children who would never get this start in life can get a savings account connected to the market. Capitalism is evil and I think we should redistribute everything and we all should have the same. But you don't get the Michael Dell's of the world that had the incentive for 40 years to probably work 80 hours a week. To be away from his family, to take risks, to borrow money, to spend capital, to then get to this point in his life, he says, his seven billion, that's capitalism. And for all the ones you want to show me, like, oh, he was greedy and he kept this and he couldn't. I'll show you 10 Michael Dell's. And that's the power of capitalism.
- [40:10]
A
And so when you think of your own wealth distribution, capitalism, biblical capitalism even, and even I would say some of this wrestling, I imagine, from tithely and you know, going from a pastor to now a wealthy businessman, how do you think about money and faith? You're obviously a very faithful person. How has money affected your idea of faith?
- [40:36]
B
Hopefully not much. I just think in the Bible's pretty clear, it's not that money is the root of all evil, it's the love of money that is the root of all evil. So if money becomes like a God, which I actually think one of the reasons God gets us to give money away is so that we keep money in perspective so it doesn't own you. And God says, oh, you can bring your tire to the storehouse, you can be generous to people in need, you can decide that you want to help people. And I think that what that does, it kind of cleanses the soul. And so we don't get too inward and too greedy. So God kind of sets up a system that if you become a follower of Christ, you are now to become a generous person. And when you live that kind of lifestyle, it just becomes part of who you are. And you're not doing it to be flashy or show off or to do any of that, but to. Because the further your walk of faith goes into your understanding of who God is and what God's called you to do, the more you continue to just yield to that and submit to that. So now I get to the point where everything I own is not my own. And that's the ultimate.
- [41:44]
A
Does your local church know how much money you have?
- [41:49]
B
Yep, they do. They, they're beneficiaries of it. And I teach guys like, if you have large donors, don't budget on that money. Put that aside, put it in a building fund, put in a rainy day fund. Don't budget on large gifts because I give one big, you know, for two, a few different churches. But it's a big gift. And I say, this is not for your budget. What are you building? What are you fixing? You want to renovate the children's ministry, right? Go and use it for that one off Cap, we call that capex, right. In business, it's not for OPEX operational expenses. So I give them a little quick little business lessons on capex and OPEX and where this money should go and. Yeah, so. But it's like. Because we do big lumps, you know, But I just. I just given that course and it's like, you know, oh, don't. I mean, yeah, bonus your stuff a bit. You know, we. We like to. We usually give either end of December or early Jan and, you know, do some fun things like that. But you just get to this point where you are not foolish with what you give away. And getting back to your question of, you know, what, like, what do you take with you? What's on the other side? Not my money. He's not making it to the other side. And so you're just trying to be a good steward of what God's given you and take care of your family. You know, my parents still alive, I try and do things for them. They're reluctant to take anything from me, but, you know, I'm always trying to do things on. Do things for friends, do things for grandchildren, pay their school fees, like, all the things that you get to do. But ultimately you're at this point where, like, man, this. I'm. I'm literally stewarding this. This money to be able to put it in the hands of people that can do so much more with it than I could do. And it just doesn't own you. Money comes to you, you're not chasing it anymore. Right? Like, that's a. That's a moment when it's coming to you and you're not, you know, you're not getting every guy trying to hustle the next dollar.
- [43:35]
A
It just comes when you say you won't take it with you. I mean, what's your plan? Is it to spend it all before you pass away? Do you have something set up to pass it on to, you know, children or family or what does that look
- [43:47]
B
like, all of that? You know, I think I'm probably still formulating a legacy thing. I don't. Haven't thought about it. Like, a lot of times, you know, people build a hospital wing or. Right. Like, there's ways to do good. I play golf with a guy, and his dad had sold big business big. Like, sold it for 6 billion. He still owned a big chunk of it. And he wanted to build a school. And there's a lot of backstory to it. And it was gonna. He was gonna spend 250 million building a school. And it was just kind of this thing he just had, he, he'd had it in his heart for a long time and it had germinated and, and by the time he could get to do it, he knew he had a full plan where it was gonna be. Who's it gonna be for? I don't have that yet because I started in missions and the third world and that was kind of where God used me. Early on after I came to Christ, I had imagine it's going to be something, you know, in that it'll, it'll be definitely church related. I think it will be missions related, you know, in, in parts of the world that doing it pretty tough. And maybe education, education will for women, you know, we're both pretty passionate about. So yeah, I think that I'm still evolving and, but here's the other thing too. The guy didn't want his name on the school. He put the 250.
- [45:01]
A
There you go.
- [45:01]
B
He's like, one condition. I don't want my name anyway. I kind of did that. So I, I, you know, I'd probably want to be the same. It's like, no, just go and build it. Give the glory to God.
- [45:09]
A
You know, something about the anonymity. I think that's, that's got a nice ring to it.
- [45:13]
B
Absolutely, absolutely. Very, very biblical. God's, you know, you just go about, do your thing and I'm not looking for the praise of man, you know, I'm trying to look while no one's looking. Get, get that. Well done, good and faithful servant from the Lord.
- [45:28]
A
That's awesome. Dean, I really appreciate you joining us today on Money Wise. This has been great and I think your real philosophy and opinion and mindset about generosity, it's something I'm learning from right now. Even as you talk. I hope some of our listeners will learn from it as well.
- [45:43]
B
Absolutely, man. Enjoyed it.
- [45:44]
A
Absolutely. Before I stop recording, is there anything you wanted to talk about or wanted me to ask or have strong opinions on?
- [45:53]
B
How do you feel the conversation around money and how it works, you know, and, and especially I see a lot of young people that are, they're bit clueless on how money works and where it comes from and where it goes and how it goes, in what sense?
- [46:06]
A
I guess how can I frame that?
- [46:07]
B
I just think in this rise of kind of, you know, they go, these lost generations, you know, that are now, they're now like thinking, well socialism might be the better way because we're seeing such an excess of wealth. And Elon became a Trillionaire and, and all this kind of stuff. Elon pays more taxes than anyone in the history of the human race.
- [46:29]
A
Oh, yeah, right. I know. I, I did some research on that recently and it's like vomit how much he.
- [46:35]
B
And if, if you want him to pay more, you go and legislate for him to pay more.
- [46:39]
A
Sure. I'd love to understand your thoughts on how the world around us is operating when it comes to money. Obviously, you've built an incredibly successful tech company. You're invested in some startups and in some public equities, and you're an incredibly generous person. What are your thoughts on money in general?
- [46:58]
B
Yeah, I think, you know, you have to. And I've tried to educate younger people, especially around, you know, the function of money and how it works and why some people, people tend to accumulate it and why some people tend not to accumulate it. There's some, some life habits that, that, you know, do set you up to be able to do well financially. Not spending more than you earn is probably the number one. But I just think we've got to teach young people that money is not evil and that money is a means. And if you want to go, if you want to go real hardcore. D. You know, the Bible is very clear what money is. Money is seed. And seeds are good for one thing, multiplying and creating more seeds. So when you understand that money is seed, and when Paul is talking to the Corinthians, he's trying to get across to them. Every time I invest, whether it's in a missionary, a startup, an orphanage, a donut company, right, it doesn't matter. It's seed. And I've been stewarded. I've been gifted that money through whatever means to grow it. I'm here to grow the money. Agricultural terms are used a lot in the New Testament. Like I am a farmer and I'd be given seed and I'm to pray, give me more seed to sow, because the more I sow, the more I'm going to reap. And God's very clear on that. And so it's teaching people that don't, don't even maybe have a world. A biblical worldview is that money has got so much power in it when you put it in the right place and it'll multiply and ultimately you'll be able to help you and you'll be able to help others.
- [48:29]
A
Dean's worth something between 30 and $50 million. He has 5% of his net worth and, and debt. And half of his portfolio is indexed he gives away 10 to 15% of his money every year, and his spending rules are the same ones he had when he was left with $150 at the end of the week. The amounts changed, but his habits never really did. That's the entire episode. That's the Dean Sweetman mindset. Conversations like this one we just had in moneywise are very similar to the ones that we have inside of Hampton every single day. Hampton's a private network for founders and CEOs doing on average 25 million a year in revenue. If you're doing 3 million in revenue or have exited for 10 million or more, go check out joinhampton. Com. That's the episode. I'm Daniel Burke. This is money wise. See you next week.