Cracks in the Narrative: Live from CrimeCon 2026

Summary

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Monster: Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer

Episode: "Cracks in the Narrative: Live from CrimeCon 2026"

Release Date: June 8, 2026
Host: Josh Zieman
Panel: Julie Grant (moderator), Alexis Linkletter (investigative journalist), Robert Macedonio (attorney for Asa Ellerup)

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Episode Overview

This special live panel episode, recorded at CrimeCon 2026 in Las Vegas, brings together leading voices in the Long Island Serial Killer (LISK) investigation. The focus is on the fallout from Rex Heuermann’s guilty plea, gaps in the official narrative, law enforcement failures, and lingering questions about uncharged victims and broader police corruption. Filmmaker and host Josh Zieman, journalist Alexis Linkletter, and attorney Robert Macedonio engage in a sometimes tense, always probing discussion moderated by journalist Julie Grant. The conversation provides new insights into the case and examines why answers remained hidden for so long, inviting the audience deeper into the ongoing search for truth and closure.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Unanswered Questions and Uncharged Victims

• Josh Zieman notes that while Rex Heuermann has pled guilty, significant mysteries persist, particularly regarding uncharged victims (e.g., "Asian Doe," "Peaches," Tatiana, and "Baby Doe").

  "For me, I would say it's the other victims that seem to be part of the group. Asian Doe, for sure... Peaches and Baby Doe, and then the other victims that we think may be connected. Carmen Vargas. So there's just so much we don't know about." — Josh Zieman (07:06)

• Zieman accuses Heuermann of "controlling the narrative" by admitting only to select crimes:

  “He’s admitting to certain things that he wants to admit to... this is part of what he is doing in terms of pleading to begin with, is controlling the narrative.” — Josh Zieman (07:41)

2. Police Failures, Corruption, and Missed Opportunities

• Never-before-seen video: An impassioned witness, Dave Schaller (roommate of victim Amber Costello), describes alerting police to a "monster"—Heuermann himself—identifying him and his distinctive Chevy Avalanche truck multiple times, to no avail:

  “I told the cops about everybody... I actually left a message for them, like, two years ago. Never got back to me.” — Dave Schaller (09:11–09:49)

• Zieman underscores the gravity of this missed lead:

  “If he tells the police about it four times, what happened? Why did that information not get passed along?... It doesn't seem like it was just a clue that was missed. There might have been some kind of reason why it was missed.” — Josh Zieman (10:01)

• Police chief James Burke’s corruption (2012 onward) explored by Alexis Linkletter, including eyewitness accounts linking him to illegal and abusive behavior at sex parties:

  “He became the police chief in 2012… he was engrossed in... a corruption scandal… all of his attention was really about covering up what he was doing.” — Alexis Linkletter (12:16)

  “He didn't want to solve it or wasn't working towards solving it... he wasn’t interested in letting anyone else come in to Suffolk County and poke around.” — Alexis Linkletter (14:03)

3. Asa Ellerup: The Killer's Ex-Wife and Her Response

• Robert Macedonio addresses questions about Asa Ellerup’s knowledge and feelings:

  “She has expressed to me... she does feel an extensive amount of sympathy towards the victims, that no women should have died that way... Early on, she was in denial... but we now know he did live a complete double life, and he has admitted to them both to her privately and publicly in the courtroom.” — Robert Macedonio (21:05)

• Macedonio refutes suggestions that Asa could have known of the killings, citing alibis and travel records for each murder:

  “She was away on each of those occasions, which allowed Rex the opportunity... He had a four day plan on how he would commit these homicides.” — Robert Macedonio (24:57)

• Notable Moment: Heuermann's confessed to killing eight women, though only charged with seven:

  “He said he killed eight women... He said yes, they were killed in his room downstairs. All except one... That was his first murder before I married him.” — Robert Macedonio (20:05)

4. Systemic Disregard for Victims

• Discussion turns to why these crimes went unsolved for so long. All acknowledge that, both through systemic corruption and the marginalized status of sex workers, victims were deprioritized:

  “Nobody wants to resort to sex work... These women were desperately coming into contact with this guy...” — Julie Grant (27:20)

  “These women were more afraid of the men closest to them than strangers. They weren’t thinking about serial killers. They were scared of their pimps first, then they were scared of the cops... Any detective will tell you they care, but I think it’s just a harder mountain to climb.” — Alexis Linkletter (28:28)

5. The Nature of the Justice and Sentencing

• With New York lacking a functioning death penalty:

  “The worst he's gonna get when sentencing comes up June 17th is gonna be life... He’ll spend three consecutive life without paroles and then 25 to life for, you know, four consecutive sentences. So he’s never getting out.” — Panel (30:45)

• Macedonio speculates: “They have something they call prison justice. And I think he's going to [face it].” (31:35)

6. Heuermann's Behavior, Planning & Serial Killer "Research"

• Zieman examines whether Heuermann modeled himself after other serial killers to evade detection:

  “We know he, in his planning document... mentioned Mindhunter, the book... was he really trying to use Mindhunter to evade detection?... Rex is really unique... he studied Ed Kemper... how to approach his victims, how not to make them afraid, and how to lure them into his vehicle.” — Josh Zieman (32:35)

7. Audience Q&A: Additional Perspectives and Loose Ends

On Heuermann’s Brother (38:17)

• The infamous Avalanche truck was transferred to Heuermann’s brother to avoid police attention. The brother's property was searched but nothing new revealed.

On "Peaches" and Victims Not Known as Sex Workers (39:12)

• Zieman and Linkletter agree that the absence of information about Tanya/Peaches is "very strange," and that in early murders (before online sex work), chance encounters cannot be ruled out.

On Shannon Gilbert’s Death (41:24)

• Widely considered the catalyst for discovery of LISK victims, but the panel mostly rejects the idea she was a victim of Heuermann:

  “The 911 call is clear. She is trying to escape... That’s an accidental death. The only one that believes it’s not is her attorney or her family's attorney.” — Robert Macedonio (42:54)

  “She was a victim of this institution that delayed in finding her and everything... it’s a tragedy, and it’s an unbelievable coincidence.” — Josh Zieman (44:09)

8. Closing Reflections

• Zieman emphasizes the panel’s key takeaway: even with a guilty plea, the narrative is still highly contested, and Heuermann himself may be orchestrating this ambiguity for self-preservation and legacy control.

  “What we may be seeing now is Rex Heuermann’s B plan—controlling the narrative. And so far, that plan seems to be working... you just can’t stop digging.” — Josh Zieman (45:23)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On systemic missed chances:

  "If he tells the police about it four times, what happened? Why did that information not get passed along?... It doesn't seem like it was just a clue that was missed." — Josh Zieman (10:01)

• On police corruption:

  "Someone obsessed with power and covering up his own crimes is not focused on solving a serial killer case." — Alexis Linkletter (12:16)

• On the pain and confusion of the ex-wife:

  “She just did not believe that the father of her child, the husband she had for almost 30 years, was capable of these kind of crimes... obviously, we now know he did live a complete double life.” — Robert Macedonio (21:05)

• On the victims’ marginalization:

  “They were scared of their pimps first, then they were scared of the cops... This was not on their radar.” — Alexis Linkletter (28:28)

• On justice:

  “It's unfortunate. We don't like to talk about it, but... he's not going to be viewed very favorably in prison.” — Panel (31:43)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |------------|------------------------------------------------------| | 03:29 | Panel introduction & context | | 07:06 | Uncharged victims, Heuermann controlling the story | | 09:11 | Dave Schaller’s account & missed police opportunities| | 11:14 | Corruption/Chief James Burke evidence | | 18:26 | Asa Ellerup’s knowledge & emotional fallout | | 24:57 | Timeline confirming Asa’s absence during murders | | 30:45 | Sentencing implications — no death penalty | | 32:35 | Heuermann’s “research” into other serial killers | | 38:17 | Audience Q&A: brother, property, Avalanche | | 39:12 | Tanya/Peaches — uncertainty about her life | | 41:24 | Shannon Gilbert: impact and speculation | | 45:23 | Zieman’s closing observations |

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Overall Tone and Takeaways

The live panel’s atmosphere is candid, often emotional, and occasionally contentious. There are persistent undercurrents of frustration—at law enforcement’s failures, at systemic disregard for sex workers, and at the chilling possibility that, even in pleading guilty, Rex Heuermann remains in partial control of the story. The episode stresses the need for relentless journalism, victim-centered focus, and skepticism of the "official" version of events.

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This episode is essential listening for anyone seeking not just facts, but the live, unresolved tensions that underpin one of America’s most haunting serial murder cases.

Transcript

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[Robert Macedonio]

Foreign

[Podcast Narrator]

you're listening to Monster Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating in the podcast and do not reflect those of Tenderfoot TV or iHeartMedia. This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.

[Narrator/Panel Introduction]

There are moments in an investigation when you stop chasing the story and start listening to how other people see it. Now, recently I had the chance to attend CrimeCon in Las Vegas, a gathering of investigators, journalists, attorneys, and folks who have followed cases like this one for years. I was invited to speak at a panel about Rex Heuermann's guilty plea, his upcoming sentencing, and the future of the Long Island Serial killer investigation. The panel was hosted by Julie Grant, former Court TV reporter and prosecutor who understands how cases like these are built inside a courtroom. And joining us was investigative journalist and host of the Fifth Degree, Alexis Linkletter, who spent years digging into the gaps and contradictions and unanswered questions surrounding this case. And finally, Robert Macedonia, the attorney representing Asa Ellerup, Rex Jorman's wife. And having spoken to Rex many times, Macedonia's direct access gives us yet another unique perspective. But what made this conversation so interesting wasn't that everyone agreed, in fact, quite the opposite. Because even now with a guilty plea, there are still so many disagreements about who Rex really was, what motivated him, and how much of his story we actually know. So rather than simply tell you what happened, I want to bring you into the room. Because sometimes the questions, the debates, the tension between what we know, what we think we know, and what we still don't understand can be just as revealing as the evidence itself. I'm Josh Zieman, and this is Monster Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer.

[Panel Moderator]

The guilty plea in the Gilgo beach murders on Long island marks the beginning of a new chapter in one of the most closely followed cases in recent history. Next comes the sentencing phase for Rex Heuermann, but questions remain. Please welcome filmmaker Joshua Zieman, podcaster Alexis Linkletter, and Robert macedonio, defense attorney for Heuerman's ex wife, Asa Ellerup. To moderate the panel is journalist Julie Grant.

[Julie Grant]

Hi everybody. Wow, what a great crowd. Thank you all so much for being here. Gosh, we're so happy to spend the afternoon with all of you and we know that this case has captivated the attention of all of us in this room and people all around the world. And even with the plea with defendant Rex Heuermann, there are still so many unanswered questions. Right. So many things we don't know about. So we wanted to do this panel today to try to tackle those questions and answer the questions you all have. So after we talk to our panel of experts here, we're gonna open the floor up and then get as many questions from you all as we. So let's start things off. Josh Zieman, I want to start with you. So biggest questions for you that we still don't have answers to.

[Josh Zieman]

For me, I would say it's the other victims that seem to be part of the group. Asian Doe, for sure. We still have questions about Peaches, Tatiana and Tanya, Peaches and Baby Doe, and then the other victims that we think may be connected. Carmen Vargas. So there's just so much we don't know about. One thing I will say is that it seems to me, and we can discuss this with some of the other members of our panel, but it seems to me that Rex is trying to control the narrative.

[Julie Grant]

Ooh, why do you say that?

[Josh Zieman]

Well, just because, you know, he's admitting to certain things that he wants to admit to. This is part of what he is doing in terms of pleading to begin with is controlling the narrative.

[Julie Grant]

Interesting, because now that he's caught, you think he may be doing a little damage control from behind bars.

[Narrator/Panel Introduction]

Ok. Yeah.

[Josh Zieman]

I mean, it's all about control. Especially a sexual sadist.

[Julie Grant]

Right?

[Josh Zieman]

So now that he's caught, now that the evidence is so overwhelming, what power does he have? So almost by doing the guilty plea, he's able to suddenly take some power back and then control what story he wants to tell about himself.

[Julie Grant]

Right. Let's talk about how he got caught, shall we? And, Josh, you brought some never before seen footage. How do you like that? Wonderful. Members of the audience, Never before seen footage.

[Josh Zieman]

Correct.

[Julie Grant]

An interview you did with witness Dave Schaller. And tell us who was Dave, please.

[Josh Zieman]

So Dave was Amber Costello's roommate. We interviewed him back in 2015 when we were making the Killing Season, and we did an interview with him. We did not include this piece of footage in the show, but when Rex Heuermann was arrested, suddenly myself and our filmmakers, Rachel, we all turned to each other and we said, oh, my God, we know that guy. We've heard about that guy. And so that's the piece of footage that you're gonna see.

[Julie Grant]

Let's take a look at the clip.

[Dave Schaller]

There was one guy who came there. He was a monster 6, 300 fucking pounds. Just a beast of a man. He was driving a green. What the hell is that thing called? Green Avalanche. Chevy Avalanche truck. And when I picked out that green Avalanche. These guys looked at each other like, you know, like it was the fucking tip of the century, you know? I told the cops about everybody.

[Julie Grant]

When's the last time the cops were in contact with you?

[Dave Schaller]

I actually left a message for them, like, two years ago. Never got back to me, Really. I wanted to find out what the fuck was going on, you know?

[Josh Zieman]

Yeah.

[Dave Schaller]

Yeah, it's fucked up.

[Julie Grant]

All right, Josh, talk to us about that bit of information. What police?

[Josh Zieman]

So Dave Schaller tells us. For basically an hour and a half, he tells us about three individuals. One of those individuals, huge monster of a guy. £300, 6, 4. Drives a green Chevy Avalanche. We now know that to be Rex Uerman. He says that he told the Suffolk County Police. Not once, not twice. Four times over a couple month period. And the question now is, well, if he tells the police about it four times, what happened? Why did that information not get passed along? Questions that we continue to have to this day. They even gave him a lineup of vehicles. And so, as I like to say, if the cops are literally going to Staples to create a lineup of vehicles. This must be a serious clue. But then they stopped. And so that brings up a lot of questions for us. It doesn't seem like it was just a clue that was missed. There might have been some kind of reason why it was missed.

[Julie Grant]

Exactly. Perhaps some purposeful corruption, maybe some incompetency. Alexis Linkletter, of course. I want to talk to you about all of this. You really drilled down on this in your work. And so let's start with a clip from one of your interviews.

[Alexis Linkletter]

She asked we not use her real name. Did you know what kind of party it was going to be?

[Anonymous Interviewee]

This party where this encounter happened was a sex party. I just saw people walking out of, like, bathrooms and with money. I knew they were escorts because they were having sex. And they were significantly younger. We were getting drunk. People were doing drugs. I saw Burke doing cocaine at the party. I just don't want them to come after me.

[Alexis Linkletter]

I understand. Did you know he was a cop?

[Anonymous Interviewee]

I knew he was a cop. I didn't know that he was so high up. He was causing me to tear up in my eye. I told him to stop. Took him a little while to finally stop. And he threw Money on me, you know, afterwards. And he said some nasty things to me. I think he was like, dirty whore, you dirty slut, or something like that. He just treated me like garbage.

[Alexis Linkletter]

Did you have any idea that a sex worker had gone missing from that community?

[Anonymous Interviewee]

No.

[Julie Grant]

All right, Alexis, we hear the name Burke reference Chief James Burke being spoken about. Talk to us about him, please.

[Alexis Linkletter]

Yeah, so James Burke is a character who really, you know, he comes up a lot in this case because of a corruption scandal. He was engrossed in. In some of the key years of the investigation. So he became the police chief in 2012. And basically, we uncovered a lot of corruption, a lot of misdeeds in his background. And it's hard to say exactly, like, did he purposefully stall the investigation? Did he purposefully derail the investigation? We can't know what his brain was doing, but we know that someone obsessed with power and covering up his own crimes is not focused on solving a serial killer case. And all of his attention was really about covering up what he was doing. You know, which you just heard this woman describe. This was an encounter she'd had with him in 2009, which more victims emerged on Ocean Parkway within that time. So he wouldn't have wanted the FBI sniffing around what he was doing in this particular neighborhood where Shannon Gilbert went missing. It wouldn't have looked good for him. Whether he did anything beyond what happened at that party is kind of irrelevant because he wouldn't have wanted people knowing that he was doing things like that.

[Julie Grant]

Right. He's messing around with sex workers. We know he wound up doing some prison time. We know at the time there was a DA who was protecting him. I mean, this is just riddled with layers of corruption and a case that should have been solved far sooner. We know that. So really, it's a question mark with him, is it not? I mean, you've done so much looking, and we really don't know if he stifled the FBI deliberately and kept them away or if this was more just self preservation.

[Alexis Linkletter]

I think it was self preservation, personally. I also think I interviewed several members of the police department who worked under him at that time. And he was just obsessed with power. So in addition to wanting to cover up his own misdeeds, he did not want the FBI solving the case, even though he didn't want to solve it or wasn't working towards solving it. He wasn't interested in letting anyone else come in to Suffolk county and poke around.

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[Julie Grant]

so let's pivot a little bit at this point. We know eventually. Thank goodness, Rex Hman is apprehended and charged. Bob Macedonio, I want to go to you next here, please. As you represent his ex wife, Asa El Arab, you were a consultant on the series House of Secrets on Peacock. Let's start by rolling a clip where we hear from Asa directly. And we've got lots of questions for you about what she knew and her sentiments and feelings toward all of the victims that her ex murdered. Here we go.

[Podcast Host]

What was the hardest part for you to hear?

[Robert Macedonio]

Well, I put a wallet.

[Podcast Host]

What do you mean?

[Julie Grant]

She called him Mr. Heuerman. So his response was, oh, are we formal now? Mrs. Eller, up.

[Podcast Host]

Did you feel you were sitting across the table from a stranger?

[Robert Macedonio]

No. When he started talking, he started feeling like, that's the Rex I know. But I didn't want to see that one. I wanted to see the one I

[Julie Grant]

needed to say, paint a picture for us of what it was like to

[CJ Toledano]

walk into that room.

[Robert Macedonio]

He looked very nervous. Very, very nervous. And I said to him, so, Mr. Heuerman, I understand that you are confessing to me on these murders. Can you please tell me, how many of these women did you kill? He said eight.

[Malcolm Glebel]

Eight?

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Was there any hesitation when he said eight?

[Robert Macedonio]

No, he just told me the Answer. He said he killed eight women.

[Podcast Host]

Eight?

[Robert Macedonio]

Eight.

[Podcast Host]

Who was the eight? Because he's charged with something.

[Robert Macedonio]

I didn't ask.

[Podcast Host]

He sat and told you he killed eight?

[Robert Macedonio]

He said I wasn't home during all of them.

[Podcast Host]

Were any of them killed in the house?

[Robert Macedonio]

He said yes, they were killed in his room downstairs. All except one. He said that he killed Sandra Castilla in the Dodge. That was his first murder before I married him.

[Alexis Linkletter]

Mm.

[Julie Grant]

And we know Karen Vergada was the eighth person that he admitted to killing. He pleaded to seven murders. Bob. Bob, let's talk about ASA and her feelings toward all the family members of the women that her ex murdered.

[Podcast Host]

Asa has and always has had a lot of sympathy towards all the family members of the victims as well as the victims. And we were just put in a unique position of not being able to express that publicly. From the day after the investigation, she was, as was her daughter, under grand jury subpoena, and they did cooperate throughout the entire investigation with the task force and the DA's office, and publicly were not able to speak about anything. So she has expressed to me and also during our documentary that she does feel an extensive amount of sympathy towards the victims, that no women should have died that way. Early on, she was in denial that her husband, now ex husband, was responsible for this. She just did not believe that the father of her child, the husband she had for almost 30 years, was capable of these kind of crimes. Obviously, we now know he did live a complete double life, and he has admitted to them both to her privately and publicly in the courtroom. And she's grown a lot from this as a person. When we first met her, the day after he was arrest, a broken woman, as I think anybody would be, having their husband accused of being a serial murder. I think the first. When he first got arrested, it was three. And then they've since added.

[Julie Grant]

Right.

[Podcast Host]

Several more.

[Josh Zieman]

Right.

[Podcast Host]

Bob, there's been two subsequent indictments.

[Julie Grant]

Yes, you're exactly right. So a question for you. You were saying how, you know, Asa, your client has felt very, very bad, I mean, just destroyed about what her ex did. And in the House of Secrets series on Peacock, there was a scene, as we understand it, where she's giving that apology, but it never made it in. Would you talk about that?

[Podcast Host]

Well, I personally had no control of the editing portions of it, and I don't know what they decided went in and didn't go in, but she's extensively expressed from day one, sympathy towards the victims. And then, you know, I've been there for all the Filming. And it's been on tape that nobody should have died this way. These horrific. Where these women were violently tortured and disposed of. And again, I don't know whether that was for whatever editing reasons they put it on there. But she has, and, you know, she has since publicly come out and expressed that after he took his plea, you know, she did give a public statement. Why that didn't make the documentary either, I don't know. But she has stated that both publicly on the documentary and in the news reports right after he took his plea. And now she just wishes to remain silent, let the focus remain on the victims and their families, where. Where it actually belongs.

[Julie Grant]

Yeah. You know, I think a lot of people have a hard time, Bob, and I'm sure you've heard this many times before. People have a hard time believing that Asa didn't know this was going on, that he was living two parallel lives. What do you say when you're asked that question about her knowledge?

[Podcast Host]

I honestly had the same questions when she first came in the day after his arrest because we didn't know what evidence the DA's office and the task force had. So we have a husband that's charged as being the serial murder of the first three, and we have several unidentified bodies that they're looking to link him to. And we didn't know where she was, but we now know the first homicide in 1993, she wasn't married to Rex. He was married to his first wife. She had no contact with him at that point. The second homicide, she was. Now we know she was in Sweden preparing for her wedding. Rex met her over there. She was there for three weeks. Rex was home for the first 10 to 12 days, committed the second homicide, then flew over and got married four or five days later. So we now know on each of the occasions the task force has articulately laid out where she was with her family and she was on vacation, whether it was in New Jersey, at Atlantic City, at Six Flags in Iceland, for five weeks at one point in time, she was away on each of those occasions, which allowed recognition, the opportunity to have this plan laid out, which we'll talk about later. He had a four day plan on he would commit these homicides.

[Julie Grant]

It's so sinister in these faces, these faces of these beautiful women. These are the women who he has been legally linked to. He has pleaded guilty to all of their murders. Melissa Barthelemy, Maureen Brainard Barnes, Valerie Mack, Sandra Castillo, Amberlynn CO Costello, Jessica Taylor, Valerie Mack and Megan Waterman. And he also admitted to that eighth murder of Karen Vergada. Although he was not charged with her murder, he did admit to killing her. Let's talk a bit about the plea, the sentencing, and let's keep this photo up for a moment because I. Well, let's start here, and then we'll talk about the plea and sentencing. Here we have Tanya Jackson, her little baby angel. Tatiana Dyke's mother and daughter Tanya was known as Peaches for the longest time before she was identified. Rex Heuermann, not charged with killing them. There's a big question mark, though, isn't there, here?

[Alexis Linkletter]

Bob?

[Julie Grant]

I would love for you to weigh in on this issue. If you have any thoughts on the deaths of Tanya and Tatiana and whether or not Rex Uren might be behind.

[Podcast Host]

I do not believe Rex will ultimately be charged with those. Those responsible for those at this point. He has given full proffers, you know, with his attorney and taken a plea and admitted to an eighth uncharged homicide. So there's honestly no benefit to him of not coming clean on these homicides because he's. He's spending the rest of his life in jail. No matter how we look at it, there's some different difference agreements on that because it protects his narrative. And yes, to an extent, he did take the plea to protect his narrative and how his family ultimately will view him going forward. There's a lot of evidence that he did not want to get out, you know, for obvious reasons. It protects. Even though his. They're divorced now, the wife still does visit him. Austin still does visit him on a weekly basis. She was there yesterday for an hour to visit him. So I don't believe he's ever going to be charged with those extra homicides or is responsible for them.

[Julie Grant]

Okay, I appreciate you weighing in. Legally, he's somebody so frustrating, I think, for all of us because he preyed upon the most vulnerable members of our society. I mean, nobody wants to resort to sex work.

[Alexis Linkletter]

Nobody.

[Julie Grant]

I think many of you know this about. I was a prosecutor. You never, never find anyone who's doing that kind of work on purpose. Very sad circumstances have happened to those people that have put them in a situation where they feel like this is a last resort to earn money. And so these women were desperately coming into contact with this guy, Bob.

[Podcast Host]

But the sex workers are routinely victims of crimes. Obviously doesn't lead to homicides, but they're routinely victims of robberies and assault, drug abuse. So it just tends to follow the natural flow that they're going to be more victims of homicides because they are easy targets. And they're less likely to be noticed or something wrong or they're disappearing them, their families. Often they don't hear from them for two, three, four weeks at a time. So it fits a profile where you could easily get away with the crime as you would not.

[Julie Grant]

Right, right. And Alexis, would you speak to that, please? Because I think a lot of people, people feel like because these women were doing sex work that perhaps the case didn't get the attention from police that it should have gotten.

[Alexis Linkletter]

Yeah. So there are a lot of implication as far, a lot of implications in terms of the sex work. Right. So one thing I wanted to say before I answer that question is that a lot of these women had men in their lives that. I don't like the word pimp, but there's no other word, but that's what they were. And they were extremely violent. So these women were more afraid of the men closest to them than strangers. So it was like, okay, do the sex work, not get beaten by my pimp or don't do it and get beaten. They weren't thinking about serial killers. They were scared of their pimps first, then they were scared of the cops. This was like not on their radar. It's like the other survival aspect were on their radar. But as far as police in Suffolk county and whether they were prioritizing or not prioritizing these women because of their sex work, well, James Burke, who was the police Chief starting in 2012, I mean, he likes sex workers. So it's a little bit, like, hard to understand. I don't think he didn't prioritize them because they were sex workers, because he was in long term relationships with sex workers. I truly think it wasn't about what they did. I think it was about just covering up his corruption. Now, I've talked to other police detectives who were involved when Brooke wasn't there, and they are adamant that they did care. What they keep saying is that they're just harder cases to solve. You know, you need more resources, you need more detectives, and that makes it more difficult. No detective will admit that they don't care as much. But I do think it's harder to report women in this trade missing because people think they're going to turn up in two weeks when they don't, when those are very crucial moments where they could have gotten ahead on it. So it's a little bit of a nuanced answer with that. Any detective will tell you they care, but I think it's just a harder mountain to climb.

[Julie Grant]

You know, if There was ever a criminal who deserves the death penalty. This guy deserves it again and again. He needs to be under the prison. If you ask me in New York, Bob, no death penalty. Right. So the worst.

[Podcast Host]

No death penalty in New York.

[Julie Grant]

The worst he's gonna get when sentencing comes up June 17th is gonna be life.

[Podcast Host]

The sentence of murder in the first degree in New York carries a life without parole sentence. That's the most. And then the other counts are there. The other four homicides are 25 years to life. You know, so he'll spend three consecutive life without paroles and then 25 to life for, you know, four consecutive sentences. So he's. He's never getting out. Thank God we have no death penalty on the. It's on the books. It's just not statutorily. They don't prosecute it now.

[Julie Grant]

Right. Thank you for that clarification. And I think that's very frustrating. I think for a lot of people who feel like this plea isn't enough, you know, it's not enough. It's just for the way he murdered these women, tortured them, dismembered some of these victims. I mean, it's unconscionable. Bob, your thoughts as a lawyer, when it just doesn't seem like there's enough justice in the world to give this animal.

[Podcast Host]

They have something they call prison justice. And I think he's going to.

[Julie Grant]

Let's hope so. Let's hope so. Yep. Let's hope so.

[Podcast Host]

It's unfortunate. We don't like to talk about it, but it is a reality in society. And he's not going to be viewed very favorably in prison, not that anybody should be. But he's going to have a very difficult rest of his life, whether it's two years, five years, or, you know, 60 years. He's 62 years old. I think he's 62 now.

[Julie Grant]

62, yeah.

[Alexis Linkletter]

That's how old he is.

[Podcast Host]

It's not going to be an easy years. And, you know, some people may think that that's actually better than getting the death penalty and to live out that hard life. It all depends on your, you know, your view on that. So it's not going to be easy for Rex.

[Julie Grant]

Let's hope it's a very bad sentence for him. He deserves the worst of the worst in the way of punishments. Josh, let's talk about his behavior. That was unconscionable, yet it happened. You've studied the behavior. Was he studying any other serial killer's behaviors, in your view?

[Josh Zieman]

Yeah, well, we know he, in his planning document. He actually mentioned Mindhunter, the book which I'm sure many of you read by John Douglas. The question is, was he really trying to use Mindhunter to evade detection? For example, was he had one type of MO and then had a second type of MO Was this just a natural evolution? For example, he moved to death dismemberment. Was that trying to throw investigators off, or was that just a utilitarian point of view? So that was one. But I spoke to Mark Safrak, who's another FBI profiler. And what's interesting about Safrak is he interviewed Joel Rifkin, who's the other most notorious Long island serial killer who also killed sex workers right before Rex and during Rex's time in literally just neighborhood over. But he's also very similar. He was bullied as well. So Mark was saying that maybe he might not have actually tried to throw investigators off as much as he was also researching other serial killers to find out how not to get caught. Don't make the same mistakes Joel Rifkin did, which was driving around in the car with a dead sex worker or another one. And I think this is really the most important thing. Rex is really unique. He's 6, 3, 6, 4. That's huge. And a lot of it is approaching sex workers. And how do you not seem completely intimidating? And so he studied Ed Kemper. Ed kemper was like, 6, 8, 6, 9, as you saw in the Mindhunter series. He towered over the other folks when they were, like, walking him around. And the same thing with Rex. And so he. It's. It's Mark Safrak's idea that he studied specifically Kemper on how to approach his victims, how not to make them afraid, and how to lure them into his vehicle.

[Julie Grant]

Appreciate it, Josh. Bob. June 17, Rex Yearman's going to be sentenced. Do you think he'll speak?

[Podcast Host]

I believe he will. I believe he will. That's up to his attorneys.

[Narrator/Panel Introduction]

Wow.

[Podcast Host]

Obviously. But I believe he will speak it.

[Josh Zieman]

What do you think he's going to say?

[Podcast Host]

I would hope he would express some type of remorse, not only to his own family and the damage he put them through, but I. I would hope he would address each victim's family and honestly apologize. But that, again, that's up to him and his attorneys. But it would be only appropriate if he does do that.

[Julie Grant]

Hey, everybody.

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[Malcolm Glebel]

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[Stefano Pallard]

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[Malcolm Glebel]

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[Julie Grant]

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[Julie Grant]

I want to open the floor up for questions before we run out of time, so please tell us who your question's for. Well, I have something for the whole panel. I was wondering what is going on with his brother. At one time, they were investigating the

[Anonymous Interviewee]

brother and whether or not there were

[Julie Grant]

bodies on his property. And didn't he also have an avalanche or.

[Podcast Host]

The avalanche that his brother had has been seized by the task force, and I think that it's still in the possession of the district attorney's office. I think that was the avalanche that Josh speaks of that was mentioned by the one witness that Rex had ultimately bought a new Avalanche and gave that vehicle to his brother because he was aware that that avalanche was somehow reported as being related to seeing a body dumped in Maneville. Got rid of that vehicle, I think, the next day. Yep.

[Josh Zieman]

So they have searches of him, looking

[Podcast Host]

for a different searches of him, and is actually. The taskbus has records of him buying a new Avalanche.

[Julie Grant]

His brother seems just as strange as him.

[Podcast Host]

His brother's a little stranger. He probably is better off being down on his four acres. And Caroline is by himself in a trailer.

[Julie Grant]

Thank you for that. Next question, please. Yes, I guess this is for Josh and Alexis in terms of Tanya and how you weight where her remains were found. What about the fact that, as I understand it, there's no indication that she was ever a sex worker and all of Rex's victims, as far as we know, were sex workers. How do you weigh that against that?

[Josh Zieman]

So we actually don't know anything about her. The only idea that we had heard that she worked in a doctor's office, that was actually came from Andrew Dykes himself, and that's what he told investigators. It's actually very strange. Nobody can find anything about this woman to kind of corroborate anything. So rather than. It's like she wasn't. It's just that we don't know anything, which is very strange that we don't know anything. No family? No. Well, you know, she has family, but nobody up in New York. You spoke to Calvin.

[Julie Grant]

Mm.

[Josh Zieman]

Right. And tell us about Calvin.

[Alexis Linkletter]

Well, I spoke to someone who was good friends with her up until the point that Tatiana was born, and he visited her in the hospital, and he asked Tanya about the child's father, and she was very vague and evasive about it. But we also know that the child's father signed a lease for Tonya in Brooklyn, so he knows enough. Whether he's being trained, truthful about what she was doing when they got there, it's unclear. But we also. There's a lot of ambiguity about Sandra Costilla and whether she may or may not have had ties to sex work either. And based on the idea that Rex Heuermann also admitted that he murdered her in their dodge. Right. That could have just been two people meeting at a bar. And that was in 93, and Tanya was in 97. So it's. It's possible. You know, it's possible he encountered Karen Vergada, who was murdered in 96, the same way where an encounter in real life because Craigslist wasn't at play yet. So there's just a lot of questions about those earlier murders because of it being in the late 90s. We're not sure.

[Julie Grant]

Okay, thank you for that question. Next question, please.

[Audience Member]

I wanted to ask. Shannon Gilbert was kind of like the 911 Crazy, set off the whole launch of what has now become the Rex Hooerman case. And I probably, like everybody else in this room, have consumed overload from the beginning, like, just everything that you could get from it. And when it came out, when they finally found her body, it was so close. And y' all have talked a lot about the geolocations and things like that, but we haven't really talked about Shannon and from launch to them finding her body and how close it was and how long it took them to find her. I just wanted to hear some of Yalls thoughts on that process, because you've been there to that stretch of that crime scene in those locations. And so for us, from the viewer side of it, you know, we picture it from the maps, but y' all have been there. And so I just wanted to hear

[Julie Grant]

a little bit of your.

[Audience Member]

Your insight and thoughts on that.

[Josh Zieman]

Well, I mean, from a location standpoint, it's so difficult in that one area. I've been in there, and people just don't understand. Like, I was literally having a conversation with a guy, Zach Winters, the other day. He had asked me. He said how. I was like, dude, the reeds are 12ft high. You would never even be able to see it from the air. So the length of time to find her body is completely justified, considering at the same time, there was probably a further obstruction even to go finding her from Burke's camp as well. They probably delayed that as well. Right.

[Podcast Host]

I think that the Burke stuff kind of fits. It makes for a great story. I don't believe Burke had anything to do with the homicides. The question of sex workers, I mean, that's going to routinely be debated I'm sure that he did get sex workers. It's been admitted and reported. That's a. Just so everybody knows that's a Beautiful stretch of Long Island. And it's all these homicides took place in full foliage, everything's in bloom. It's gonna be very difficult to see anything from the road. Shannon Gilbert, you know, thankfully, is the one who started this whole case and had all these young ladies, you know, discovered. I do not believe she had any relation to Rex. Did not believe she was any association with the Gilgo, you know, serial killer cases. She was at a. Obviously a sex worker at a party. The 911 call is clear. She is trying to escape. And it's been both. The prior da, this da, the police commissioner, the last two police commissioners, the ME have all reported that's an accidental death. The only one that believes it's not is her attorney or her family's attorney

[Audience Member]

and probably most of the people in this room. No offense.

[Podcast Host]

No, I know. But I don't think she has anything to do with Rex Huberman, though, so that you know where. But it's just fortunate that you did find the other bodies.

[Josh Zieman]

It remains a crazy coincidence in this case, regardless. But regardless, she was a victim.

[Podcast Host]

Correct?

[Josh Zieman]

You know, she was a victim of this institution that delayed in finding her and everything. So, you know, otherwise it's. It's a tragedy, and it's a unbelievable coincidence. I don't know.

[Audience Member]

Thank y'.

[Stefano Pallard]

All.

[Julie Grant]

Of course, thank you for bringing up Shannon Gilbert, because she's someone we've all sort of thought a lot about, and she really did set everything into motion. So that we could be at this point in time today, where we have this serial killer who has pleaded guilty and admitted to seven murders, admitted to an eighth he's not charged with, but he's going away for the rest of his life. So legally, it would not make a difference if he legally pleaded to that. But we here on stage and on behalf of everyone at Tenderfoot tv, this panel is presented to all of you by the wonderful folks at Tenderfoot tv. I want to say thank you for attending today. And we're dedicating this panel to all of the victims, all of the victims who've lost their lives. We want to send good wishes of love and comfort and peace to the family members. No family should ever have to experience what all of these people did experience.

[Narrator/Panel Introduction]

That was my time at CrimeCon. A rare chance to hear how this case is being interpreted in real time by people coming at it from completely different angles. And thank you again to Alexis Linkletter, Robert macedonio, and our host, Julie Grant. But if there's one thing that stood out to me, during this panel, it's this. Even now, with Rex Urman's guilty plea, there are still fundamental disagreements about who this man is, the so called monster, and how much of his crimes we truly understand. And the realization that this may be, by design, part of Rex Uhman's plan all along, part of that blueprint. Whether it's discarding victims across jurisdictional lines or admitting to some victims while remaining silent about others, what we may be seeing now is Rex Urman's B plan controlling the narrative. And so far, that plan seems to be working. Which brings us to our next episode. Because the only way to unravel Heuermann's carefully constructed narrative is to keep pulling on those threads, to look beyond what he's admitted to and focus on what he didn't. Like the victims found along Ocean Parkway that he's denied, or other victims found along other highways in Long island or perhaps in cities beyond. Victims whose stories don't fit into Rex's latest Persona, the new one now emerging from behind that mask, that of a serial killer who after so long is finally coming clean. Who still at heart is a family man who only murdered women and therefore is somehow less deviant than a sexual sadist who didn't care who he killed. A man, a woman, an adult, or tragically, even a child. Because if there's one thing we've learned after more than a decade of investigating this case is that the truth has been intentionally hidden. Very detailed, deep in time, but it is still out there. You just can't stop digging. Ready to keep listening? Remember, you can binge the rest of the season right now with an iHeart True Crime plus subscription available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Plus you get exclusive bonuses and ad free listening. So head to Apple Podcasts, search I Heart True Crime plus and subscribe today. Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer is a production of Tenderfoot TV and iHeart podcasts. Hosted, written and executive produced by me, Josh Zieman. Produced and written by Kaitlin Colford. Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay are executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot tv. Matt Frederick and Trevor Young are executive producers on behalf of iHeart podcasts. Original music by Alex Lysarenko, David Little and makeup and vanity set. Our supervising producer is John Street. Editing and writing by Daniel Lonsberry. Additional voiceover provided by Rachel Mills. Additional production provided by Ghost Robot. Sound design, mix and master by Daydon Cole. Cover Design by Byron McCoy. Interns Arnetta Fontenot, Shelby Hanson, Alec Walker and Fox Williams. A and e Television Networks LLC Audio from the Killing Season used under license Copyright 2025 A&E Television Networks, LLC. All rights reserved. Special thanks to the team at United Talent Agency, the Nord Group, Brad Abramson, Todd Liebowitz, Rich Perillo and Jigsaw Productions, Rachel Mills, Zachary Mortensen, Jen Beagle, David Baker, Joe Jacquelone and Evan Krause, as well as the teams at iHeartPodcasts and Tenderfoot TV. Find us on social media at MonsterPod. For more podcasts like Monster Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer, search Tenderfoot TV in your podcast app or visit Tenderfoot tv. And if you want to keep following my hunt for the Long Island Serial Killer for a deeper dive into into my other true crime content, join me on YouTube at Sinister with Josh Zieman.

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