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New episodes are released weekly absolutely free, but you can binge the entire season now with I Heart True Crime plus exclusively on Apple Podcasts. You'll also get ad free listening and exclusive bonus episodes, so head to Apple Podcasts, search I Heart True Crime plus and subscribe today. Foreign. You're listening to Monster Hunting, the Long Island Serial Killer. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating in the podcast and do not reflect those of Tenderfoot TV or iHeartMedia. This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. In this episode, we'll be talking about these victims in very graphic terms. These details are crucial for proving the mistakes and missed opportunities that could have led to the perpetrator's capture sooner. These individuals deserve to be remembered not by the details of their deaths, but by the fullness of their lives. They are Shannon Gilbert, Maureen Brainerd Barnes, Megan Waterman, Melissa Bartholomew, Amberlynn Costello, Jessica Taylor, Valerie Mac, Karen Vergada, Asian Doe, Sondra Castilla, Tanya Denise Jackson, and Tatiana Marie Dykes. Considering everything we've learned about Rex Jorman so far, combined with that hulking presence with and dead stare, it would be all too easy to make that leap from man to monster without asking one of the most important questions of them all. Why? Because the why is just as fundamental to the crime or the criminal as is DNA. In fact, they both stem from the same place, somewhere deep inside ourselves, those unique individual markers that define the essence of of who we are. Because when it comes to serial murder, it shouldn't just be about solving the crime, but stopping the crime before it starts. I met Rex when I was in second grade. I grew up in Massapequa park, about maybe three or four blocks from Rex's house. I'm talking mid-70s to early 80s. We played on the same block. It was a very small but close knit town. Everybody knew everybody's business. I recently spoke with John Parisi, a native Long Islander who grew up with Rex all the way through high school. Rex was always subliminal. He was an introvert. He was always around, but he was always in the background. Always there but not there. He really didn't speak too much. My mother used to say, watch out for the quiet ones. While John describes Rex as a teenager who lived in the shadows, his interactions with girls revealed a different side. I believe that there was a lot of red flags early on. For example, when Rex was in high school, he would leave love letters in girls lockers. He would break into their lockers and steal clothes. So he would go in and try and grab things from girls that he liked or maybe had been rejected from correct jackets. Certain things. See if you ask a girl out, if she says no, she'll say, oh, I'm dating somebody or I'm flattered but thank you but no thank you. That wasn't good enough. In other words, he internalized it. And then there was Joan's Beach. John mentioned going to Joan's beach back in High school. Which was intriguing considering we learned early on that Rex had worked at Jones Beach. Well, we used to hang out at Jones Beach Field 4. That was the place to go back then. I miss it to this day. Did you ever know him when he was working at Jones Beach? That was later on in high school, when he was older, he had a fascination with the beach. A fascination with the beach that would turn into the perfect job. And then something far darker. The alleged serial killer spent about four summers in the 1980s working at Jones Beach. Prosecutors say Heuerman worked at Jones beach when he was in his 20s. Part of the work entailed going from field to field to ensure beachgoers were off the property once the beach was closed. A role that made the defendant extremely familiar with Ocean Parkway at night. Just six days after our interview with John Parisi, it was revealed that employees at Jones beach had made a haunting discovery. Brand new developments in the Gilgo beach homicide investigations. Detectives visited Jones beach after discovering disturbing evidence near where suspect Rex Heuermann once worked. Workers unearthed a cachet of weather beaten purses and girls clothing buried in the sand just outside the east bathhouse. Could these very clothes be the same ones Rex stole From Girls Lockers 4 decades ago? Clothes that were said to include miniskirts, shorts and blouses, some with ripped and torn buttons? Or considering workers also found a bloody glove, something more. And if a cachet of trophies can remain hidden in the sand for 40 years, then what else could still be out there, buried on the beaches? The Long Island I'm Josh Zieman and this is Monster hunting the Long island serial killer. Prosecutors in the Gilgo beach murder case have revealed new evidence. It comes as suspected serial killer Rex Heuermann remains behind bars without bail. Local, state and federal authorities outlining today years of quiet evidence collection against Heuerman, leading to an indictment reading like a movie thriller. For those of us who have been following the Lisk case, who were starved of answers by a police department intent on hiding the truth, the indictments released by the DA's office read like chapters in a detective novel. Each court document revealing more pieces to a puzzle we've been trying to solve for years. Reading between the lines, they were also signaling to those of us scrutinizing their every move that this time there would be no mistake. Although some might contend that it was actually Rex Heuermann himself who gave them all the proof they needed, prosecutors say they've scoured devices from Heuermann's home and office. And among that evidence, several hard drives and about 2,500 pages of documents and photographs. Let's consider for a moment the psychological thriller Seven, in which the killer remains completely analog and therefore anonymous. Hence his name, John Doe, as he writes down every sadistic detail of his crimes by hand, the marble notebooks lining his bookshelves being his only paper trail. There are 2,000 notebooks on these shelves, and each notebook contains about 250 pages. Get anything about the killings? What sick, ridiculous puppets we are, and what a gross little stage we dance on. What fun we have not knowing that we are nothing. We are not what was intended. But that's fiction, not reality. The real world is far too complicated, too intertwined. And try as we might to hide it, the trail of our secrets will never disappear. Which brings us to the paradox of Rex Heuermann, a man who went to extraordinary lengths to avoid detection. Counting surveillance cameras along a highway, using burner cell phones and fake email addresses, utilizing software to erase digital files. Yet at the same time, he was a pack rat who held onto hundreds of electronic devices, even an old palm pilot from 2003, which revealed his wife's vacation dates and his gun club activities the week Jessica Taylor was killed. And the evidence went on and on. Investigators seized 350 electronic devices from Heuermann's home, including a significant collection of torture pornography, including burner phones they say he used to contact sex workers as recently as last year. Eight terabytes of data with thousands of photos on four hard drives. But beyond the digital evidence he refused to throw away, there was also a compelling amount of physical evidence. Investigators allege Heuerman kept souvenirs. Authorities say a search warrant of his home in Long island and Manhattan office uncovered multiple newspaper clippings in about the murders. Among the Items were a 2003 New York Post article titled Serial Killer eyed in sleigh. 1993 Newsday article headlined body discovered in woods. The yellow New York post article from 2003 found in Heuerman's bedroom detailed the murders of Valerie Mack and Jessica Taylor, while the 1993 Newsday article found down in the basement in the safe referenced Sandra Castilla. But it was DNA that would create the ultimate trifecta. Hairs found on Megan Waterman's body and the burlap bindings match Rex Huerman. A hair found on a belt used to bind Barnes matches the DNA profile of Heuermann's wife, Aza Ellerup. And a hair found on Amber Costello's body matches Heuermann's daughter, Victoria. Investigators say DNA analysis linked Hair found near Mac's left wrist to Heuermann's wife and daughter. While Rex was seemingly meticulous in his attempts to evade capture, DNA evidence, his own hairs, those of his wife Asa, and his daughter Victoria, were found on all the victims. Asa Ellerup was Rex's second wife. They married in 1996, and together they raised Ace's special needs son, Christopher, age 35, from a previous marriage, and their own daughter, Victoria, age 28, who worked at her father's architecture firm. Yet in the days after Heuermann's arrest, many began to question, how could his wife and child not know they were living with a serial? Or did they know and were somehow involved in a case like Rex Heuermann's? Sadly, there are other people whose lives are ruined. Rex had a family, wife, kids, who did not invite any of this. You mean to tell me a married couple for 27 years, yours doesn't know what's going on downstairs? Despite outlandish claims suggesting that Asa and her children were somehow complicit, it's far more likely that they had been groomed for decades by a master manipulator. The family's attorney theorizes Asa has been experiencing Stockholm syndrome. Court documents also outlined another disturbing detail of Rex's double life. The planning of his murders around his family's trips out of town. The DA also saying that at the time that Maureen Brainard Barnes went missing, Heuerman's wife and kids were in Atlantic City. We learned of a date book showing his wife out of town during Jessica Taylor's disappearance in 2003. There is absolutely no evidence that anyone acted with the defendant, much less his family. The DA's office contends beyond a doubt that Rex's wife and children were not involved in any of his crimes, and they've gone to great lengths to prove they were out of town during every murder. The only murder where they were not away was that of Valerie Mack in 2000. Which leads to the unsettling question, where did Rex commit her murder? And could it reveal other victims of the Long island serial killer? The hunter is learning. Every kill, he takes something away from it. And then there was the issue that had divided Suffolk county police and criminologists alike. That being the issue of one killer, verse two, as in why had Lisk dismembered some victims while others were found intact? It seems the clue to unraveling the mystery may be buried in one of the most disturbing documents ever created by a killer. A document Heuermann believed he had erased. Until it was recovered by computer forensics. A blueprint carefully crafted by an architect that detailed not just how to commit murder, but how to get away with it. For years, the task force discovered a Microsoft Word document. This is a planning document. And it was utilized by Yurman to methodically blueprint and plan out his kills with excruciating detail. Which brings us back to June 6, 2024, and to that live stream with detectives Joe Jacalone and David Sarni as the Suffolk County DA released Heuerman's planning document to the public. In 2023, the Gilgo Task force seized a hard drive from Heuerman residents. The task force found the Microsoft Word document, the planning documents. He's already listing problems. Fingerprints, DNA. He already knew about it back then. He's knowing about police stock, dealing with his truck. If it gets stuck, what do you do? But one of the things that struck us, and frankly, everyone else, was a number of references to a book Heuerman had researched and studied. A book he used to plan these murders. Wow, folks, he's reading Mindhunter by John Douglas. He's researching. He never thought that serial killers are reading and researching. It became perfected. He perfected his craft. This is a guy perfecting his craft. This is absolutely insane. Mislead, misleaders. Even too, he put misleaders. What could mislead the investigation? What problems? We allege that the defendant was looking at Mindhunter, which was written by a FBI serial killer analyst, not to gain insight into the mind of a serial killer. He was looking to gain insight into how it is that investigators capture serial killers. So was Rex using Mindhunter and the expertise of the Behavioral Analysis unit to evade capture, employing forensic countermeasures, such as dismembering his victims not only to prevent their identification, but scattering the remains in Nassau county to exploit the territorialism of Suffolk county to add another layer of confusion to the investigation. And what about Misleaders? Was he changing his MO to suggest more than one killer? MO Is malleable. It changes over time because offenders, especially guys like Heuerman, as we know from the planning document, learned to be better. They learn when they make a mistake, and they don't make that mistake. Again, delving further into Heuerman shifting MO and his Mindhunter connection, I spoke with Mark Safric, a former Profiler for the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit who trained under the legendary John Douglas, author of Mindhunter. Mindhunter provides some interesting things to think about. For instance, Castillo, the first victim, is found relatively quickly intact. So that was probably disturbing to him that she's found quickly. In order to prevent them from being found and prevent them from being identified, he starts to engage in dismemberment. Remember also that Joel Rifkin is in the same area that Heuerman is in, and he's in the years immediately preceding when Rex is acting out. Between 1989 and 1993, Joel Rifkin dismembered 17 victims, typically sex workers he picked up in Manhattan. Before scattering the remains across New York and New Jersey. Rifkin lived in east meadow, just 10 miles from Rex's home in Massapequa Park. Rifkin is also caught on June 28, 1993. Just five months later, on November 20, Sanders remains are discovered. Rifkin confessed to police about killing 17 prostitutes in New York state in the last two years. To be able to corroborate what he has told us means that we're going to have to analyze all of the older case files from any police department that we think might be involved. He had to know about Rifkin because he spent his whole life in Massapequa. So he clearly aware of what Rifkin and what Rifkin was doing in terms of dismembering the victims and spreading those body parts to different counties to confuse law enforcement. If it's anyone who knows Rifkin, it would be Mark Saffrek, who sat down with him for lengthy interviews during his time at the Behavioral Analysis unit. As for Rex Hman, his alleged behavior supports Saffre's assessment. After Sander Castilla had been found, the killer's next four victims had all been dismembered and the remains scattered between Suffolk and Nassau counties. I think that he got that idea from reading the book. If you go into Douglas's book, Douglas interviewed Ed Kemper. Kemper is another guy who dismembered victims and then put their body parts in different counties to confuse law enforcement, which it did. I think Heuerman would have read, and he would have thought, okay, you know, this makes sense. Kemper told Pueblo police that he had previously killed six college girls in the Santa Cruz area. He was kind of an odd man. He didn't say much. He seemed like kind of a mama's boy. Ed Kemper was a brutal and sadistic killer convicted of dismembering seven women and one one girl in the early 1970s. One victim being his own mother. But his conversations with profilers John Douglas and Robert Ressler, fictionalized in David Fincher's series Mindhunter, also Reveal a killer who is disturbingly self aware. People who hunt other people for a vocation. All we want to talk about is what it's like. Shit that went down. Entire upness of it, right? Sure. It was hard work physically and mentally. I don't think people realize you need to vent. The Kemper Heuerman connection is kind of interesting, right? I think it's interesting because it's in the book. And if you're reading about Ed Kemper, he's also a very intelligent guy. He thought about the process also, you know, Heuerman's a big guy. He is kind of like this ogre. Right. And Kemper was a big guy. Right. So they both have to know whether my size is going to be intimidating to the women that I'm trying to connect with. So that's why I think there's that connection. As for changing mos, Saffrek believes Heuermann stopped dismembering because he felt he didn't have to because he had been so active for so many years and still hadn't been caught. As for Meinhunter, he believes Heuermann wasn't trying to learn from profilers as much as he was trying to learn from those serial killers. The ones he had a connection with. Rifkin because of proximity and Kemper because of his size, trying to learn from both how to not get caught. He had two role models for that. He had Joel Rifkin in terms of how long Rifkin was able to get away with the murders that he did and then Kemper, I think for him it impacts him. Kemper was like six, nine, like £300. So he did these dry runs to see what the reaction was. Are they not going to go with you because of the way you look? It would not surprise me that Heuerman would have done something similar like made an appointment to meet somebody. So I don't think that Castillo was probably his first victim. He likely had others because again, he's 30. Right. So you think he has killed before Sandra Castillo? I don't know. I don't. I think that's difficult to say. Could there be somebody earlier? Absolutely. Do I always think that we identify every serial killer's victims? No foreign. Social casino. The presents are open and you're over the in laws. 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And while scientific advances have shown genetic predispositions to violence, what the press has called the serial killer gene, there's still no such marker for understanding premeditated murder, nor the rare type of serial known as a sexual sadist. Hence why we need to go back to the beginning, to a small Long island town in the 1970s to uncover the story of how a tormented boy transformed into a so called suburban monster. Again, here's John Parisi, Rex's childhood friend. When we were growing up and we played on the block, we would all take turns and host. In other words, Monday will be a Keith's house where Wednesday would be at Joe's house. And he was the only kid that never hosted anything or had people over in that close knit community. It was the Huroman home that stood apart despite Rex's father being a successful aerospace engineer. The Heuerman home was uninviting, dilapidated and dark with peeling paint, broken panels, indicative you might say, of Rex's reclusive, domineering father. Tell me about Rex's dad. Rex's father, he was scary. Six foot five, 300 pounds, very intense, very angry German man. He was very abusive. We were scared for Rex, like oh my goodness, he didn't get killed. How did his father die? His father died of an alcohol related sickness. I was told it was hush hush. There wasn't much said about it but he was only 13. That's tough, you know, that's tough for anybody. Listen, I wanted to give the other side of this. My heart goes out to the young girls and their families. I'm not trying to make any excuses for what he did. I have a master's in mental health and substance abuse. I believe in improving the human condition. At the end of the day, that's what it's all about. As Rex grew older and larger, he became an increasingly visible target. Paradoxically, his imposing size making him more of a victim and not less. When he was in like 4, 5th or 6th grade, he was like 5, 8, 5, 9. They picked on that kid. They were unforgiving. The kids used to ambush him and you couldn't beat him one on one, so three or four kids would jump him. And then when he got to like junior high school, then they started realizing, oh, my God, you're gonna kill me. He was almost 6 foot 4, 200. Being excluded, it takes its toll. It really does. And that's what happened to Rex. We always knew that Rex was bullied in school based upon newspaper reports. But what we didn't realize was the exact nature of that bullying and which experiences would prove psychologically damaging. 16 year old girls could be cruel. I mean, if they don't like you. Then again, he was his own worst enemy. He would ask girls out and they would laugh in his face. We all have been rejected. Whatever reason, to him, that rejection was devastating, especially how it was done. You ever hear the expression, if you kick the dog enough times, the dog doesn't get up anymore? Exactly what happened to him psychologically, he was done. He was toast. By the time he got to 10th, 11th grade, any sense of normalcy was gone, completely gone. Rex's bullying isn't unique among serial killers. In fact, many of the killers profiled in books like Mindhunter share this common thread of childhood humiliation and social rejection, including Rex's alleged role model, Joel Rifkin. It's very interesting because we had always thought that there was a lot of bullying going on, and it's very common. Joel Rifkin, another Long island serial killer. Right. Bullied. But when you said that he had been bullied by women, the light bulb went off. Yeah, they would be mean to him. And his hatred of women manifested itself. You know, knowing what I know now, he had issues with his mother. The father was very abusive, and the mother didn't protect her son. So that was the beginning of his hatred for women. And he's a psychopath. He didn't see those girls as human beings. He saw them as objects. All of this collectively manifested itself and made Rex who he became. We all created Rex. That includes his family. That includes the bullying at School that includes not being accepted. We all created him. Yes. If we had death penalty and he's proven responsible, he should get a lethal injection. So we all got to look in the mirror. If John Parisi's view of Rex Heuermann seems overly sympathetic, it's because I later learned that he too had been bullied. Yet we both agreed. While many have been relentlessly bullied or have had abusive fathers, most don't go on to become the Long island serial killer. According to clinical psychologist Dr. Joni Johnson, it's only the rarest of breeds that crosses that line into true darkness. In your clinical assessment, what type of individual are we dealing with here? There's a couple of different terms you can use, but he's basically a sexually sadistic serial killer. He's actually the worst nightmare of anybody. He is somebody who doesn't just hurt people. It's the pain and the fear and the domination that is the turn on for him. If you just look at the pornography that he consumed, that was really what turned him on. That sadism, which is very, very different from somebody who's into bdsm. Bdsm. It's the consent that is a turn on with sexually motivated serial killers. It's the lack of consent and it's the turn on. Right, right. But how does somebody become a sexual sadist? What creates that? It seems so foreign. It is foreign. And I have thought about this. I cannot tell you the number of times I've thought about this. Oftentimes it starts in childhood. You have a predisposition of a kid who is not very empathetic naturally, so it has some kind of predisposition. But then they have these pure interactions that are humiliating. And we know that Rex Hurman got bullied horribly in high school. So this anger starts building up. If you have over controlling parents, then oftentimes the kid learns to suppress their emotions. So fantasy is a very common escape for children. Right. This is taking a different form. Those fantasies are angry, they're resentful. And then sometimes what happens I think really is a tipping point for sexual sadism is that these fantasies starts continuing along with puberty. As he's developing this energy interest in sex, he's got all these fantasies and they start colliding a little, they start going down that rabbit hole and they encounter violent pornography and it becomes more and more consuming. But there's got to be something in Rex's personality that takes it to the next level. Typically what happens is there's some life event that happens that moves that Person from fantasizing about it, thinking about it, to planning it. But it's also a lack of empathy, Right? There was something a little bit missing, a little bit off, that he's kind of born that way to some extent. So, yes, there is typically always this kind of predisposition meets trauma meets situation. And that's where you get that perfect storm. But if his life trajectory had gone differently, you know, he wouldn't have ended up where he potentially is now. There is a famous story about Joel Rifkin saying that he walked into a library wanting to know why he felt the things that he felt. And on one shelf was the psychology book, and on the other shelf was a book about Gary Ridgeway, the Green River Killer. And this was a moment in his life. It could have gone either way. And he picked up the book about Gary Ridgway. And once that happens, whether they're saying it to themselves or not, they've made a decision. I'm going to do it. In that endless debate about nature versus nurture, there's a famous saying. Genetics loads the gun, but environment pulls the trigger. But when it comes to the case of serial murder and to Lisk, when all that planning turns into something more, it's the hunter's decision and the hunter's decision alone to pull the trigger. Revealing what may be the ultimate paradox of the alleged Rex Heuermann. For a man who's so seemingly large and so strong, it's shocking how small and how weak he truly is. Too weak to overcome the trauma inflicted upon him, he chose instead to pass that trauma onto so many others. The question now is, how many others do you believe that he's killed again? After Amberlynn Costello, it's hard for me to imagine that he is not. The fact that law enforcement acted when they did because he was actively soliciting and starting to go that path again is very concerning to me. Again, if you're thinking of sexual sadism, where the primary arousal is the infliction of pain and suffering, then that would hypothetically open a lot of doors into who your victims are. Every story begins somewhere for your child. It could begin with a Guardian bike, built right here in the usa, engineered for safety and designed for confidence. Kids of all ages are learning to ride in just one day. No tears, no frustration. It's why Guardian is America's favorite kids bike. And the New York Times and Wirecutter's top pick three years in a row this holiday season. Give the gift that's safer, smarter and built to last. Visit guardianbikes.com to save up to 40% on all bikes, plus a free accessory bundle worth over $100. You know what I always say? Pressure makes diamonds. Whether it's on the court or in life, when things get tough, you've got to step up. That's right. And if you or someone you love is dealing with metastatic prostate cancer, stepping up means knowing your options. There's a treatment called Pluvicto, Lutetium Lu177, Vapipatide Tetraxitan and it's worth talking about. Plavicto isn't chemo. It's a different kind of treatment that targets PSMA positive cells, including prostate cancer cells. 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It's about being present. It's about being there for the moments that matter, both big and small. So if you're in the fight or know someone who is, ask your doctor about Plavicto because when the pressure's on, you don't fold. You find a way. Visit pluvicto.com to learn more. That's P-L-U-V-I-C-T-O.com make their holiday unforgettable with a gift that says it all from Pandora Jewelry. A gift that tells a story and shows you know theirs that doesn't just sparkle but speaks. From new festive charms to forever rings and personal engravings, this season, give a gift that's perfectly theirs. Whether you're shopping for a shiny surprise for your significant other, matching bracelets to celebrate your friendship, or a heartfelt gift for a family member, say more this holiday season with Pandora. I always look forward to the holidays because I live to give all the women in my life jewelry with a little something special engraved on it just to show them I care with something personalized. You know, I love to get some gifts myself and a man wearing jewelry is quite cool if you ask me. Shop now@pandora.net or visit your closest Pandora store. Hey Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. You know one of the perks about having four kids that you know about is actually getting a direct line to the big man up north. And this year he wants you to know the best gift that you can give someone is the gift of Mint Mobile's unlimited wireless for $15 a month. Now you don't even need to wrap it. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required. New customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes if network's busy, taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com. Now that we understand Rex Uerman's disturbed beginnings, coming from an alcoholic father in a broken home to snatching clothes out of girls lockers, we can begin to see his evolution. The question now is when did Rex allegedly make that choice to pull the trigger for the first time and how many times since? Because according to Thomas Hargrove, investigative journalist and founder of the Murder Accountability Project, there are plenty of unsolved cases on Long island that we need to consider. There was never any debate as to whether this was a serial case once the Gilgo beach bodies were recovered. But what about the dozens and dozens of other women? If we go back to 2009, before anybody was dug up at Gilgo Beach, I would have told you you probably have a serial killer. I first met Thomas Hargrove back in 2015 during the filming of the Killing Season when he had just founded the Murder Accountability Project, a nonprofit that analyzes homicide data from law enforcement across the United States. Tom uses algorithms to identify patterns of serial murder that law enforcement cannot. I recently sat down with Tom so he can walk me through the Murder Accountability's latest database, a map that shows you how to toggle through jurisdictions and victim profiles to identify homicidal patterns in the form of big red circles. If you go to our website, the County Clusters section, and then you pick female for victim, you'll see the patterns that we now call lisc, the Long Island Serial Killer. You'll see a giant circle sitting over Long Island. And that's the algorithm still pinging. Something bad happened in Long Island. Hargrove's Algorithm has been screaming about Long island for years, long before the first body was discovered at Kilgo Beach. Now, where I start to question is, is there another dumping ground? Because we believe that there might be. We've got some individuals here. I mean, did that say five? Look at that. 2010. 04 of those are the first Gilgo beach victims. Okay, got it. But then what's that? That's the other six. I believe the pattern goes back further than that. As we continue to pore over the data, I was stunned to see the emerging pattern traced back much earlier than the murder of Sandra Castilla. This is very interesting. For example, the first lisk that we know of, theoretically is 1993. The killer was active much younger. The when you see the clustering starting where it is overwhelmingly red, I would say 1982, 83 lisk was active from the early 80s until Gilgo Beach. According to Hargrove's algorithm, the pattern of outdoor female homicides stretches back to the early 1980s, meaning Rex Heuerman allegedly may have been killing for over 40 years, potentially starting in his 20s, when he was first an employee at Jones Beach. What has been your interactions with the Suffolk County Police Department? I spoke to the annual meeting of the 2017 Mid Atlantic Homicide Investigators association, and there were several detectives from Long island, and so we had a little chat on the side, and I said, Guys, 10 is not the right number. You know, 10 is not the right number. And I showed them the data that you just looked at, and they agreed that the pattern was far larger than just the bodies recovered at Gilgo Beach. And I said, it's more than 40. They all solemnly nodded and said, yes, sir, we know. Ready to keep listening? Remember, you can binge the rest of the season right now with an iHeart True Crime plus subscription available exclusively on Apple Podcasts Plus. You get exclusive bonuses and ad free listen. So head to Apple Podcasts, search I Heart True Crime plus and subscribe today. Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer is a production of Tenderfoot TV and I Heart Podcasts hosted, written and executive produced by me, Josh Zieman produced and written by Kaitlin Colford. Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay are executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot tv. Matt Frederick and Trevor Young are executive producers on behalf of Iheart Podcasts. Original music by Alex Lysarenko, David Little and makeup and vanity set. Our supervising producer is John Street. Editing and writing by Daniel Lonsbury. Additional voiceover provided by Rachel Mills. Additional production provided by Ghost Robot Sound design, mix and master by Dayton Cole. Cover Design by Byron McCoy. Interns Arnetta Fontenot, Shelby Hansen, Alec Walker and Fox Williams, A and e Television Networks, LLC. Audio from the Killing Season used under license copyright 2025 A&E Television Networks, LLC. All rights reserved. Special thanks to the team at United Talent Agency, the Nord Group, Brad Abramson, Todd Leibowitz, Rich Perillo and Jigsaw Productions, Rachel Mills, Zachary Mortensen, Jen Beagle, David Baker, Joe Jacalone and Evan Krause, as well as the teams at iHeart Podcasts and Tenderfoot TV. Find us on social media at MonsterPod. For more podcasts like Monster Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer, search Tenderfoot TV in your podcast app or visit Tenderfoot tv. And if you want to keep following my hunt for the Long Island Serial Killer for a deeper dive into my other true crime content, join me on YouTube at Sinister with Josh Zieman. Every story begins somewhere for your child. It could begin with a Guardian bike built right here in the usa, engineered for safety and designed for confidence. Kids of all ages are learning to ride in just one day. No tears, no frustration. It's why Guardian is America's favorite kids bike and the the New York Times and Wire Cutters top pick three years in a row this holiday season, give the gift that's safer, smarter and built to last. Visit guardianbikes.com to save up to 40% on all bikes, plus a free accessory Bundle worth over $100. Now streaming, it's the new limited series Little Disasters, Happy Families, Perfect Marriage. What happened? Social services have been called in. I've known you for 10 years. How could you make that call? These rich families Concealing things seems to come naturally. Starring Diane Kruger. You can't take our children and Joe Joyner. Parents can do some terrible things in moments of frustration. Little Disasters all episodes now streaming on Paramount. Plus, what do you do when things get tough? You don't give up. You stand your ground. If you've been diagnosed with metastatic prostate cancer and have tried hormone therapy, ask your doctor about Lutetium leu177vipivatide tetrexitan. Pluvicto is not chemotherapy. It's a different treatment that targets PSMA positive cells. Pluvicto can be used before chemotherapy for some people. Pluvicto is a prescription treatment used to treat adults with prostate specific membrane antigen positive metastatic castration resistant prostate cancer or PSMA positive MCRPC who have already been treated with hormone therapy and are considered appropriate to delay chemotherapy. Bluvicto involves contact with radioactivity, which may increase the risk for cancer and cause fetal harm. Drink plenty of fluids, urinate often, use contraception and talk to your doctor about ways to reduce the risk of exposing others to radiation. During and after treatment, Pluvicto can cause low levels of blood cell counts, kidney problems and infertility. Tell your doctor if you have weakness, pale skin, shortness of breath, bleeding or bruising, more easily, an infection, or changes in urination. Side effects include decreased blood cell counts, tiredness, dry mouth, nausea, appetite loss, joint or back pain and constipation. Ask your doctor about pluvicto, because every day without cancer progression is a victory. Visit bluevicto.com to learn more. Where did COVID 19 really come from? And I don't mean some conspiracy here. Science and the truth are not beholden to any religion or political party. There have always been and continues to be mixed messages about COVID but over 7 million lives have been lost with no real accountability. My name is Payne Lindsay and this is leaked. A deep Dive to uncover answers about COVID 19 and explore the outbreaks that have forever shaped our modern world. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.