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This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human season two of unrivaled basketball is here and the talent is unreal. Paige Beckers, Nafiza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more are back to redefine the game. Unrivaled basketball season two, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off January 5 on TNT, TruTV and HBO. Max support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available@public.com disclosures so let me get this straight. Your company has data here, there and everywhere. But your AI can't use the data because it's here, there and everywhere? Seems like something's missing. Every business has unique data. IBM helps your AI access your data wherever it lives. To change how you do business. Let's create Smarter Business. IBM. Protect your pet with insurance from Pets Best plans start from less than a dollar a day. Visit petsbest.com Pet insurance products offered and administered by Pets Best Insurance Services, LLC are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Company or Independence American Insurance Company for terms and conditions, visit www.petsbest.com Policy products are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Company, Independence American Insurance Company or Ms. Transverse Insurance Company and administered by Pets Best Insurance Services LLC. $1 a day premium based on 2024 average new policyholder data for accident and ill. That's age 0 to 10. New episodes are released weekly absolutely free, but you can binge the entire season now with iHeart True Crime plus exclusively on Apple Podcasts. You'll also get ad free listening and exclusive bonus episodes. So head to Apple Podcasts, search I Heart True Crime plus and subscribe. Today. You're listening to Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating in the podcast and do not reflect those of Tenderfoot TV or iHeartMedia. This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. In this episode, we'll be talking about these victims in very graphic terms. These details are crucial for proving the mistakes and missed opportunities that could have led to the perpetrator's capture sooner. These individuals deserve to be remembered not by the details of their deaths, but by the fullness of their lives. They are Shannon Gilbert, Maureen Brainerd Barnes, Megan Waterman, Melissa Bartholomew, Amberlynn Costello, Jessica Taylor, Valerie Mac, Karen Vergata, Asian Doe, Sandra Castilla, Tanya Denise Jackson, and Tatiana Marie Dykes. Location of your emergency? I'm in Oak Beach, Eighth, the Fairway. What's going on there? Looking for this girl, Shannon Gilbert. Buddy, you'd help me out, please? So much. So they know she's okay and is a friend of yours, right? Well, I. I had just met her that night. To be honest with you, I wanted to get scared like I really am. Man, the phone shut off. They can't find her. What is your name? Joe Brewer. On May 1, 2010, Shannon Gilbert ran from Joseph Brewer's house and vanished somewhere in oak Beach. Nearly 20 months later, her remains were found in a neighboring marsh. While medical examiners ruled Shannon's cause of death as undetermined, Suffolk County PD refused to release her 911 tape for years, claiming it was, quote, evidence, while at the same time claiming her death was accidental. Finally, after more than a decade of legal battles and public pressure, her 911 call was released in May of 2022. But rather than clarifying the mystery, the recording only added fuel to the fire, sparking renewed debate about what really happened to Shannon on that fateful night. State police. Yeah? There's somebody after me. I'm sorry? There's somebody after me. Where are you? There's somebody after me. What's the matter? Are you okay? What are you gonna do? What are you gonna do to me? What we know for certain is that Joseph Brewer and Shannon's driver, Michael Pack, had tried to get Shannon to leave Brewer's house, but she refused. Moments later, she ran out of that house and into the streets of Oak Beach. Gilbert got lost in that marshland and died. Investigators pointing out Gilbert suffered from mental illness and substance abuse. On the 911 call, you hear Gilbert claiming that someone wants to kill her. And later running for help. Listen, I'm gonna simplify everything right now. It's a horrible accident. It's tragic. Which brings us to the inherent problem in solving any crime. Because everything is subjective, even the truth. Consider Shannon's 911 call. Listening to the exact same evidence, people draw completely opposite conclusions. Some hear a woman, terrified, running for her life. These people are fought for killing me. Where in Long island are you? I'm in hay. Hello? Why do you like building this place? It was murder. I don't care what anybody says. This was murder. While others hear a woman incoherent and mumbling, seemingly in the middle of a mental health crisis. Are you in the house? Yeah. Whose house is it? I don't know. Who is Mike? What's his last name? Mike what? Gilbert, who police say had a history of substance abuse and mental illness, at times seemed incoherent on the tape. Shannon was physically calm, but acting very paranoid. Something freaked her out. She looked freaked out. The problem with trying to solve any mystery is that all too often we filter reality through what we already believe or want to believe. Since the release of Shannon's 911 call, there's been little evidence to illuminate what may have happened to her. More so, an independent autopsy performed by celebrity pathologist Dr. Michael Baden, performed at the request of the family, only makes things murkier. Baden's report rules that Shannon's cause of death is undetermined. The same conclusion of the Suffolk county medical examiner, however, with one caveat. Nothing in his analysis rules out the possibility of homicidal strangulation. A vague enough assessment that seems tailor made for multiple interpretations. And one of the most vexing questions of all is whatever happened to Shannon Gilbert? More than half a decade of unanswered questions about how Shannon Gilbert died and whether or not her death is connected to the so called Gilgo beach murders. And then there's one more piece of evidence that may shed light on Shannon's demise. On July 23, 2016, Shannon's mother, Mary Gilbert, had been found brutally stabbed to death by her own daughter, Sarah Gilbert, who had been diagnosed with schizophrenia and was in the midst of a psychotic episode. Wow. My God. What happened? What happened? Oh. Sarah struggled with mental illness, which deepened in recent months. But Maureen never stopped trying to help. This tragic pattern of mental illness in the Gilbert family corroborates what police have always maintained about Shannon's final hours. But if the 911 tape supported Suffolk County's claim that Shannon's death was accidental. Why was it withheld for years under the excuse of protecting an active investigation? The question isn't simply whether Shannon Gilbert was murdered or died accidentally. The question is, why would Suffolk County Police Department continue to stoke the flames of conspiracy by not releasing the tape? I started saying, yeah, please. He started getting crazy. And they left out the door. And when the car drove away, I assumed it was over. I shut the door and went to bed. As for Shannon, regardless of whatever did happen that night, there's at least one truth no one can deny. Whether she died accidentally or by some other means, Shannon Gilbert is still a victim. A victim of prejudice, of apathy and the corruption that allowed the Long island serial killer and the likes of Joel Rifkin, Robert Shulman, John Bitroth, and so many others to keep on killing. While we may never know the whole truth behind the tragedy of Shannon Gilbert, what's clear is that without her sacrifice, it's highly unlikely the police would have ever searched Ocean Parkway all those years ago. And the bodies of 10 victims may never have been found. And ultimately, the alleged Rex Heuermann may never have been caught. I'm Josh Zieman, and this is Monster Hunting the Long island serial killer. While we might never solve the mystery of Shannon Gilbert, there was still that other mystery that continues to haunt us. That lingering question I've asked myself so many times since that day back In July of 2023, when I first heard that Suffolk county detectives had finally arrested the Long island serial killer, the alleged Rex Heuerman. After more than a decade. What took so goddamn long? And now seeing the culmination of our investigation, it's time we finally answered that question. As we return to our evidence one last time. Breaking news to bring you. Police have made an arrest in the Gilgo beach murders investigation. Police and the county executive are holding a press conference. Let's listen in. I want the public to know that we have never stopped working on this case. I want to thank the Suffolk County Police Department. I want to thank District Attorney Ray Tierney and his team, the New York State Police, the FBI, and all of the law enforcement partners, investigators saying how modern police work led to the arrest of the suspect. Once we were able to attach the avalanche inside of that Massapequa box, that was a moment where we said, okay, there's something here. The official version of catching Lisk suggests a case that was solved by old fashioned police work, cutting edge technology, and a combination of tenacity and teamwork. And officials aren't wrong. The Gilgo beach task force did an incredible job. An incredible job that is untangling one of the most bungled serial killer investigations in modern history. And while there are endless threads as to what went wrong, we've uncovered one thread worth pulling on. One that helps unravel the mystery of whether this case could have been solved sooner. Which brings us Back to our 2015 interview with Dave Schaller, the roommate of Amberlynn Costello, one of the Gilgo 4. I told the cops about everybody. You know, There was one guy who came there. He was a monster. This guy was big. I had to fight him to get him out of the house. And he was driving a green. What the hell is that thing called? Green Avalanche. Chevy Avalanche truck. It was only like a couple weeks before, right before she disappeared, that that guy was there. So you believe that she had met him on some kind of out call or in call before? Out call or in call? Yeah, definitely, man. That green Avalanche pro stands out in my fucking mind to this day. Cause those cops, man, they reacted so like, you know, when I pointed that thing out, they were like, you know, you could see the fucking lump in their throat. You know, something about that guy, you know? From Dave's very first interview with detectives conducted days after Amber was identified in December 2010. He gave a description of a possible killer and his vehicle. A tip that the Suffolk County PD has since admitted was in their case files from the beginning. A tip which they claim had been overlooked. David Shallard spoke with homicide detectives more than a decade ago. Investigators had a description of a Chevrolet Avalanche in their case files since 2010. But this wasn't just one clue seemingly lost in a sea of police reports. We now know that Dave's description was corroborated by another witness, we presume a neighbor, who also saw, quote, a dark colored pickup truck coming from the direction Amber was last seen, prompting detectives to re interview Dave Schaller. Months later, the cops came to Brooklyn and they pulled out a board with a whole bunch of trucks on it. And one of the trucks was a green Avalanche. He said, does any of these trucks stand out to you? And I went like this to pointed at the green Avalanche. And they both looked at each other with a fucking look on their face like an old fuck. Look like it was the fucking tip of the century. That was it. Tip of the century. One that Dave Schaller gives not once but twice. A tip corroborated by another eyewitness describing the same vehicle. On the night amber disappears in 2023, the author of Lost Girls, Robert Kolker, reported that detectives had entered the Chevy Avalanche into a vehicle database. But due to the vehicle's unique design, with features of both a car and a truck, the search came up empty. Do you think they just didn't take this clue seriously? There's a lot we don't know. I was told they ran a search and the search didn't come up with anything. But new records get filed in strange ways and whole new classes of car get invented in that time. Cars that aren't a truck and cars that aren't a car. It's very possible that the Avalanche was just not findable through the search that they did. It's possible that after running the search, they just back burnered it and it got away from them. But how could they not take such a concrete lead seriously? Well, it's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback. We didn't take Dave's clues seriously either. So why did we miss it? Well, back in a previous episode, we mentioned how Dave and Amber supposedly pulled what's called the angry boyfriend scam on a john, supposedly Rex. A scam that led to a brawl at Dave's house sometime before Amber disappeared. Now, according to police, Amber gets a text from that same John later that night saying, that was not nice. Do I get credit for next time? But the john doesn't want to go back to the house because he's afraid of, quote, Amber's boyfriend. Now, Dave says it wasn't actually a scam, just that he and Rex had gotten into a fight regardless. That's as far as this first story goes. But then Dave tells us a second story about the night Amber disappeared. So this guy kept calling, and she kept talking all sorts of jazz with him and stuff. She said, he wants me for. Wants for the night. Wants him for the night. Did he throw money at you? Yeah, $1,500. I remember telling her it's a lot of money. That doesn't sound right. And she was comfortable with him. I remember that the level of comfort she had with him was strange. I didn't feel right about it. So it was all these little stipulations. You had to pick her up around the corner. I said, why can't the guy, you know, pick you up in front of the house? And they were all just like red flags. She didn't care. She left that night. Just the clothes on her back. No purse, no phone, no nothing. Which was odd in and of itself, too. I don't know that night. I'm just playing it in my head and I'm like, I don't understand what happened that night. But here's the point. Dave wasn't 100% sure that the two Johns were connected. But he also said it was weeks between that earlier fight and the night Amber went missing. It was only like a couple weeks before, right before she disappeared, that that guy was there. We thought, there's no way this elusive killer who took all these precautions would ever show his face to Dave and then come back weeks later to snatch Amber. But now it seems it wasn't weeks later. It was the next day. Which makes this fight with this angry John far more relevant. Well, this guy went from normal to 360 degrees, you know, I mean, just went nuts, started throwing shit around my house. Because now we know why this killer, allegedly Rex, would do something so risky. Because his ego had been bruised. Because Amber had not only tried to scam him, she had humiliated him. Now he was going to make her pay. What's even more damning, recently released court documents suggesting that detectives did know it was the next day. Making the fact that they had missed this connection all the more frustrating. Schaller told investigators a decade ago that he came face to face with Rex Uerman. Quote, I gave them the exact description of the truck. I mean, come on, why didn't they use that? The point is, if they had followed the avalanche tip, then God forbid more victims could still be alive if they had made the arrest back then. In 2012, Dave Schaller publicly admitted that he was, quote, too high to remember that day. Which may account for the time discrepancy. Yet he still maintains it was weeks before. Regardless, his avalanche clue and the detectives reactions spoke volumes. So much so they even took the time to create a truck lineup on a board. Yet after striking out with this database, the tip was theoretically forgotten. That information came in at the beginning of the investigation in 2010, 2011, along with what was really thousands of tips. And unfortunately it gets lost and buried. But Suffolk county had more than just a potential description of the Long island serial killer and his car. As you remember, they also had a potential location of where he lived and worked. Let's bring back former District Attorney Suffolk County, Tim Sinney. Tim, you know a lot more about this than I do what's going on here. Certainly Massapequa was on the radar as early as 2012, and the FBI was able to pinpoint the areas that the killer was connected to, both in Massapequa park as well, as Manhattan. But Even without the FBI's help, detectives knew about Massapequa park from the very first interviews they did with Melissa Bartholomew's mother, Lynn. When I had Melissa's phone records, there was a lot of car in and out from Massapequa, which I don't have those records because the police confiscated my book of all my investigation. Tell me about what happened with that, please. They came to Buffalo to meet with us, and we were telling them about my book and all the investigating we did. You know, we went to Verizon, we got all her phone records, and so they were like, well, can. Can we take a look at this book? And we showed it to him, and that was the last time it was in my hands. They just said, this is now evidence. Yet despite having a description of this monster, his Green Avalanche, and Massapequa park, they continued to let the tip slip away over and over again. Recently, we spoke with Gus Garcia Roberts, the author of Jimmy the King, and former investigative reporter with the Washington Post at the time of Rex's arrest. What was the official line from law enforcement about the revelation that this tip was in the files? We started calling, you know, everybody who we knew had been investigators on the case at that time in those early days, and just asking them, you know, are you familiar with this Chevy Avalanche tip? The kind of consensus that we heard from these investigators was that they had no recollection of. Of there being this tip involving a Green Avalanche. Never heard of it, don't know what that is at all. That was the answer. Tierney, who became DA in 2022, explains why the tip got buried. When they're getting that, that's lost within a sea of other tips and information. And at the time, there wasn't really any coherent leadership at the top. Of course, Tierney isn't wrong blaming the previous da, Tom Spoda, and his sidekick, Police Chief James Burke. As it's been reported, instead of investigating the Gilgo case, Burke has detectives spying on professional and personal rivals for both himself and Spoda. And then came Burke's assault of a prisoner and cover up. But maybe the most damning reason critics point to was Spode and Burke's blatant obstruction of the FBI. Burke was heavily criticized by other laws law enforcement officials for his handling of the case. Over a decade ago, he refused and blocked federal law enforcement from working on the Gilgo beach serial murder case. In 2013, we interviewed former Commissioner Richard Dormer about his initial meetings with the FBI. Just days after the 10th body was found, they came up to Suffolk County, I think it was three or four of their analysts sat down with our task force, and they had very good ideas on how the investigation should be conducted. I mean, let's face it. They're the experts in this thing. This was unusual. Yeah. I mean, it's not every day that the Suffolk County PD would investigate a case like this. But once Dormer retired in 2011, the FBI's assistance was either minimized or flatly refused. Even a request by federal agents to track List's personal phone by using his burner phone was denied by Spoda. The bad blood between the Burke Spoda regime and the FBI came to a head in December 2012, when two detectives sent a memo requesting a third meeting with the bau. Again, here's Robert Kolker. Someone in the Suffolk County Police Department invites the Behavioral Analysis unit to come out in person. And when they show up, Spoda has them turn around and fly back home. He said their work was redundant. They were turned away on the airfield. And all of this happening in the shadow of Burke's assault on prisoner Chris Loeb for stealing a duffel bag of, quote, nasty porn. In fact, this Memo requesting the FBI's help was dated December 7, 2012. Just one week later, Burke assaulted Chris Loeb, suggesting that the powers that be were trying to contain the fallout from this violent beating when they sent the FBI packing. The federal authorities should be in this case. Apparently, they've been boxed out and told to stay away by Suffolk County. Cases like this is when you have everyone working together in step, not saying, keep the FBI away from this. We don't want them. What? That makes no sense. While working with the FBI might have led to a suspect sooner, in truth, profiles don't actually solve cases. It's usually gumshoe detective work. Just look at David Berkowitz, who was caught by way of a parking ticket or Bundy, an expired registration. Profiles usually just tell detectives where to look. Yet Suffolk county already knew where to look in Massapequa Park. The same could be said for this highly touted geographical box, which was ultimately unnecessary because detectives already had everything they needed to solve this case right from the start. And yet they didn't. Here's both Robert Kolker and Gus Garcia Roberts, the one source I talked to who remembers the avalanche tip from way back when. What he did not say was, we really racked our brains. We searched high and low. We went looking for that avalanche on every square foot of Suffolk county, and then we just threw up our hands and walked away because we had other things to do. What he said was they ran a search and they couldn't find it. Clearly they did more than that because the investigating cops were coming back to Dave for confirmation of this lead, so that must have been taken seriously at some point. It's maddening, honestly. The case is so botched that you can't blame people who kind of arrive at the assumption that it's botched on purpose. Take control of your digital life with Webroot Essentials Every day there's a new scam, data breach or phishing attempt making headlines. But with Webroot Essentials you don't have to live in fear. You can stay one step ahead. Webroot Essentials is powerful cloud based antivirus that scans six times faster and uses 33 times less space than bloated security software like Norton or McAfee. It's lightweight, efficient and protects your devices without slowing you down so you can stream, work and browse with total confidence. With Webroot Essentials, you also get built in Password Manager and web Threat Shield to keep your personal info, logins and devices secure. 24, 7 protect up to five devices from PCs, Macs, tablets and even smartphones with one simple Webroot Essential subscription for a limited time, get 60% off@webroot.com promo. That's powerful Cloud based antivirus for over half off, but only when you visit webroot.com promo. Stop worrying about what's out there, get your confidence back with Webroot and live a better digital life. Today. Season two of unrivaled basketball is here and the talent is unreal. The best women's players on the planet are running it back with even bigger moments and bigger stakes. Don't miss as Paige Beckers, Nafiza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Smith, Stewart and Moore take the court and redefine the game. This isn't your regular season. This is unrivaled, where the pace is faster, the energy is higher and every athlete shines. Unrivaled basketball season two, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off January 5 on TNT, TruTV and HBO. Max support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1 bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available@public.com disclosures so let me get this straight. Your company has data here, there and everywhere, but your AI can't use the data because it's here, there and everywhere? Seems like something's missing. Every business has unique data. IBM helps your AI access your data wherever it lives to change how you do business. Let's create smarter Business IBM. So why didn't Suffolk County Police Catch List Sooner? It's a question that's haunted us from the very first moment the alleged Rex Heuerman was arrested. But now, having scrutinized Dave Schaller's interview, we can finally search for the devil in the details, as in specifically, why was this clue never followed up on? And why did Suffolk county superiors not know about it? Or did they? And if so, why was that clue filed away? Was it the result of incompetence or something more? In reality, these are questions only Gilgo detectives can answer, or at least a detective who spent more than two decades commanding one of the most demanding cold case squads. Joe Jacqueline, coming from this line of work, this is a mistake that you cannot afford to to make. I mean, this is something where you had the clues readily available. In my experience, I think this would have been an automatic reach out to the New York State Police, tell them we need this done. How many green avalanches in Massapequa? And I want all the driver's license photos on my desk by the time I get back. The chief of detectives himself probably would have called the state police superintendent and said, I need this done now, please. And I know people saying, oh come on, Joe. No, listen, couple of detectives that I work for. This case would have been wrapped up in 24 hours. Don't you think this clue would have been at least forwarded on to the sergeant and lieutenant? Absolutely. And remember, even in Suffolk County's small departments, the chain of command always Exists, but it's a lot shorter. What's the percentage that it would have went up to Chief of Detectives at that time? It should have been 100%. This is Suffolk county with something like this. Doesn't happen very often. And yet, according to one unnamed source who started overseeing the case in 2011, it was, quote, beyond weird that he wasn't made aware of Schaller's statement. In another article from Gus Garcia Roberts, the Chief of Detectives Dominic Verone states, quote, I'll tell you right now, no suspect vehicle was on our radar when I was still there. Which is why we pushed Gus for his thoughts on Varrone's statement. I don't think he is lying, because I think if he was lying about it, he would probably be smart enough to know that something like this would emerge. That would call into question why he was saying that. But what if Verone truly didn't know about this ogre in the avalanche? What if these detectives who questioned Shaller over and over again, withheld this clue from their superiors because they were instructed to by the man who would later become their boss, James Burke, who, along with DA Spoda, was plotting their takeover of the Suffolk County Police Department. A plot that begins with that very strange fight you might remember. A fight over one serial killer. First two. Suffolk's Police Commissioner Richard Dormer and DA Tom Spoda publicly clashed over the Gilgo beach bodies case before a legislative committee. First, the commissioner reiterated his theory, and we still believe it's one killer. Then the DA Quickly shot that down. There's no evidence that all of the remains found are the work of a single killer. And Spode denounced the commissioner for going public with his theory. It really and truly is disturbing. It just makes a very difficult investigation even more difficult. 10 bodies, no suspects. Mono Rivera 1010 wins in Hoppag. We now know this public argument was just one piece of Burke and Spoda's Machiavellian plan to have Burke installed as the new police chief so that he and Spoda could take over the police department and with it, all of Suffolk County. But first, according to Robert Kolker, they had to force out Commissioner Dormer and the man who had appointed him, the county executive, Steve Levy, in the spring of 2011. When Tom Spoda is publicly lambasting the police commissioner, he also is inches away from engineering a slow motion takeover of the police department. And that begins with neutralizing his big rival, who has the power to appoint the police commissioner. Newly unsealed federal court documents revealing a shocking plot to to take Down Suffolk County Executive Steve Levy. According to the papers, Thomas Spoda was working with James Burke to get Levy out of office because they saw him as uncontrollable. Uncontrollable because, as Gus Garcia Roberts reveals, they knew there was no way Steve Levy would ever appoint James Burke to police chief, considering his checkered past. James Burke was chief of investigators for the DA's office under Tom Spoda, and Steve Levy was the enormously popular county executive. Burke really would not have survived the vetting needed to be a commissioner. So James Burke kind of leads this extremely shadowy investigation of Steve Levy, which probably involved blackmail. And the guy who rises up in that vacuum and becomes county executive is Steve Balloon. The very first thing that Balone does against advice from others is he appoints James Burke to be police chief. So going back to the start of this takeover, with Spoda trying to publicly humiliate Dormer, could Burke be telling Gilgo detectives, hold tight. He's going to be police chief in nine months. But don't pass up any leads to Chief of Detectives Dominic Verome because he's Dormer's guy. And God forbid they solve the case under his watch. Yeah, I mean, honestly, I find that compelling. I think that makes a ton of sense. He would not want this case to be solved under his enemy's jurisdiction. It would completely undermine the selling point that Dormer and Levy were poor at solving crimes. We're not suggesting that Burke instructed detectives to bury the Green Avalanche tip, but just not to share any leads in the off chance it would lead to a suspect and a win for Dormer. It's a theory that Rob Trotta, a former detective, now Suffolk legislator, has corroborated in interviews just after Heuermann's arrest. I think what happened was, and I know this firsthand, was I've talked to retired inspectors and chiefs. They were unaware that the car was there. They were unaware that There was a 6 foot 4 male as a suspect. They were not being told this, adding further corroboration to Trotta's comments. When Burke took over as chief, he immediately fired Verone. But why at that point didn't detectives finally action the Green Avalanche tip more? So why did detectives who kept re interviewing Dave Schaller for more than a year and a half suddenly stop? The cops stopped coming for some reason. When's the last time the cops were in contact with you? It's been a long time. It's been a long time. Three years? Four years. Yeah, three years or so. I actually left A message for them like two years ago. Never got back to me back in 2015, three years or so meant 2012, which coincides with. With Burke replacing Commissioner Dormer on January 1, 2012. And just like that, his takeover is complete, and the tip of the century is buried even deeper. Here's Robert Kolker. I think Burke makes a bad situation worse. You have a department that already is kind of paralyzed because Spoda is taking control of it. And then Spoda puts the worst possible person in charge of that department, someone who isn't going to lift a finger to try and find this killer. And then Burke beats up a witness in front of a handful of other people, and suddenly they have to spend the next year trying to shut everybody up. And it's all downhill from there. It's a frying pan into the fire situation, and it takes years to recover from. He was gone by 2016, and then this task force didn't come in until 2023. Tragically, we may never know the answer as to what really happened to the tip of the century and why it was lost for so long. As for finally catching Lisk, you might say the biggest step the Gilgo beach task force ever took to overcome the mistakes of the past was also the simplest. To start digitizing their files. First thing we did was digitalize it. I mean, you have 13 years of investigation. If you don't digitalize it, if you don't make it searchable, then you have to manually go through literally reams of paperwork. So then you go through it. Less than one month after the task force started digging into their files, they came across the tip that Dave Schaller had given them 11 years ago. That investigator started this assignment in February of 2022. In March of 2022, this same new York State Police investigator reported that a potential suspect had been identified. This suspect was Rex Heuerman. The tip that had been there all along, presumably right in those first few boxes they pulled off the shelf, right on top of the proverbial pile. But even after more than a decade of this malfeasance that allowed Rexuerman to roam free, and even with Tom Spoda and James Burke serving prison sentences, as Gus Garcia Roberts tells us, the mistakes of the past are tragically unlikely to be learned from. There was this kind of willful ignorance after Burke was brought down and Spodo was brought down. Like, okay, now we're going to be a regular law enforcement jurisdiction again. But I think it would be naive to. To think that that's not something that's continuing. The cops are still in Suffolk county, among the highest paid in the nation. They're extremely powerful. The voting block that the police have is really unique out in Long island because a quarter of NYPD lives out in Long Island. You combine that with the Long island departments and you have a really powerful, massive, moneyed voting bloc. That hasn't changed. And that's what led to the rise of James Burke. Right was this political power that the police had. So considering that that hasn't changed, I don't see the police impunity changing. This case was investigated through five Suffolk Police Commissioners, three Suffolk DAs and two Suffolk County Executives. And the breakthrough came after looking at existing evidence. So I've been asked, could this or should this case have been solved earlier? Well, you know, as I've been saying, I took office in January 2022. Take control of your digital life with Webroot Essentials Every day there's a new scam, data breach or phishing attempt making headlines. But with Webroot Essentials you don't have to live in fear. You can stay one step ahead. 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It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosure is available@public.com disclosures so let me get this straight. Your company has data here, there and everywhere, but your AI can't use the data because it's here, there and everywhere? Seems like something's missing. Every business has unique data. IBM helps your AI access your data wherever it lives. To change how you do business. Let's create Smile to Business IBM. In September 2025, the Suffolk County DA ruled a major victory in the upcoming trial against Rex Heuermann when the judge ruled to allow DNA evidence obtained through cutting edge technology known as Whole genome Sequencing. Since New York State doesn't have the death penalty, Heuermann could face life without the possibility of parole. But if he's convicted, his DNA will be entered into CODIS, the FBI's national DNA database. And if that profile matches unsolved murders in death penalty states like South Carolina or Nevada, where Heuermann owns property, he could face capital charges. DA Tierney has said there's no plea deal on the table, but in cases like this, there's always that possibility. This case inches toward trial. Rex Heuerman is accused in the murders of seven women. This is a case that has taken so many years to get to where we are, and there are still so many questions. Rick Heuermann's trial is expected to begin sometime in 2026, and we'll be there to cover it. As of this recording, he's been charged with seven murders, murders but the four other victims remain open. Tatiana Marie Dykes, formerly known as Baby Doe, and the victim once called Agendeau, fall under Suffolk County. Karen Vergata and Tanya Denise Jackson, AKA Peaches, are Nassau county cases. It's still unclear whether Nassau has enough evidence to move forward with indictments. It's also believed that authorities have identified Asian Doe, but still haven't released his name. And then there's Valerie Mack. Six of the seven murders Heuerman is charged with are believed to have taken place in his home, except for hers, which raises the possibility of another kill site and potentially more victims, a theory suggested by former Police Commissioner Richard Dormer all the way back in 2015. I've always expressed the feeling that there may be more bodies out there and that he may be using another dumping ground. I believe he hasn't stopped. Okay? He needs this. His psyche needs this. Does he have a new dumping ground? I would say yes. Another outstanding question is whether we're going to learn more about James Burke's alleged obstruction in the Gilgo case. It's assumed he was. Heuerman's defense is going to introduce Burke, or at least his past deeds, at trial in an effort to sow reasonable doubt as to whether Heuermann is solely responsible for the crimes. As for Burke, he's been making headlines of his own in recent years. James Burke was once the highest ranking uniformed officer in the Suffolk County Police Department. Today, the former police chief pled not guilty to to charges of public lewdness and indecent exposure after getting caught in an undercover sting in August. Disgraced former police chief James Burke, released from jail in 2019 after serving just 40 months for assault and obstruction of justice, was arrested again in 2023 after allegedly soliciting sex and masturbating in front of a plainclothes park ranger at 10am in the morning at a Long island park. The former police chief was arrested just a few miles from Gilgo Beach. Prosecutors say he tried to solicit a sex act from a male undercover officer. He is said to have pleaded with officers to spare him the humiliation of an arrest, even asking, do you know who I am? As for convicted and disbarred District attorney Tom Spoda, after his release from prison, he worked as an administrative clerk under the supervision of hotshot criminal defense attorney Anthony Lapinta, who had previously defended him in court, it's been reported that spod his duties are part of his work release program. Suffolk's former district attorney has been released from a federal prison. This comes less than three years into Thomas Spoda's five year sentence. As we've reported, the 82 year old was convicted in 2019 of trying to to cover up then Suffolk Police Chief James Burke's beating of a handcuffed suspect. Systemic corruption takes a notoriously long time to undo. Not years, but decades. And by all indications, the convictions of James Burke and Tom Spoda haven't had the kind of impact many of us had hoped for. Case in point, James Burke, a convicted felon, still receives a taxpayer funded pension of $145,000 a year. Thomas Spoda, $123,000 a year. And that's not even counting the nearly $435,000 Burke walked away with in 2016. For unused sick and vacation time, here's Jimmy the King Authority, Gus Garcia Roberts with his take. I think that people are always surprised to learn that he still gets a pension. If I remember correctly, 150 grand a year. How can that be? I mean, you're talking about a guy who single handedly helped bring down Suffolk County Police Department. Not only that, but all the other cops involved in his conspiracy still get pensions too, including people who are convicted of felonies in that case. I think once, once that gets more light and people understand that, then maybe outrage will grow. Nor does it seem like the Suffolk County Police Department has truly reckoned with its long, complicated relationship with sex workers. If anything, the problems still persist. Just four days before writing this episode, a former Suffolk county detective pled guilty, admitting he worked as a pimp in a prostitution ring that ran on Long island from 2019 to 2024. Former Suffolk police officer George Trimigliosi was among three people who pleaded guilty. Today they are accused of running prostitution brothels. It's being called a massive betrayal of public trust. A suspended Suffolk police officer facing new charges of rape and sexual abuse. This comes after he and three others were charged with running an alleged prostitution ring. Trimigliosi will be sentenced to two years incarceration for promoting prostitution, was an 18 year veteran of the Suffolk County Police Department, and had won cop of the month six times. Seems as much as things change, they stay the same. Last summer I went to my first pre trial hearings in the Gilgo beach case. And I remember the murmur that went through the crowd as Rex was let into the courtroom. I admit I wanted that thrill of seeing a real life monster in the flesh. And yes, Rex was huge. His massive hand shackled behind his hulking back. But what I saw instead was the true paradox of Rex. Heuermann because for someone so big, so massive, all I saw was someone so weak and so small. Too weak to fight the rage that he gave into. Too weak to overcome the revenge he fantasized about. Too weak to seek help. And so instead he chose to inflict pain. That same pain he once felt now onto so many others. Others onto the victims, onto their families, onto their parents, sisters and brothers, and worst of all, their children. Thus perpetuating the cycle. Unable to fight the monsters, you might say, Rex chose to become one. But then we'd be giving him too much credit, wouldn't we? Here's Dr. Joni Johnston. If you call Rex Hebron a monster, meaning he's otherworldly, then he's not like us. We could never be like Rex Heuren because we're normal people. And the opposite of that is true. I used to work in a maximum security prison and I interviewed many murders and I've never gone away being like, wow, this guy seems so powerful. It's like, no, you're giving this person unnatural power, even if it's evil power. And you're saying that this person is so, so unique that we could never understand this person. It's like, yeah, we can. You know, this person is somebody who was unable to do in life what most of us can do, which is learn to cope without hurting other people. This is not a hard person to understand. Dr. Johnston was right. Because there's something about that day Rex was arrested you don't know. The minute I saw that photo of Rex, I remembered that interview we did with Dave Schaller and his description of the man he thought killed Amber. The man he called a beast or Frankenstein, but most importantly, a monster. That's when I knew we'd fallen into that age old trap, believing that Lisk was something more. An elusive boogeyman, an evil genius. Something he obviously was not. In fact, if we realize back then just how easy he was to understand, how he was just like us, fallible, impulsive, human, then who knows, maybe we could have caught him all those years ago. Here's profiler Mark Safric. I think we give too much credit to these offenders. We want to try to make Heuerman out to be like this super villain, right? He seems to be careful. Like, I gotta destroy data, I've gotta wipe my hard drive, I've gotta burn all this evidence. But hey, let me just keep all the newspaper articles in my safe. We see this a lot when offenders just think they're untouchable. He's got hair literally on almost all of his victims. That belongs to someone in his family. Him, his wife, his daughter. He's deceived law enforcement for 17 years, but I think there were a lot of other things that went along with that. I think he could have been apprehended much earlier on, but I don't think that he survived 17 years because he's a super, super smart guy. In the end, what allowed Rex Heuerman, the alleged Long island serial killer, to get away with so many much for so long had nothing to do with how much he researched or studied or how carefully he planned. It wasn't that he used burner cell phones or chose the perfect dumping ground or that he even changed his M.O. what allowed Rex to get away with it wasn't anything he did, it's what we did and almost everything the police did. Whether it's bitter irony or just dumb luck, the only thing Rex Heuerman, the alleged Long island serial killer, ever did right was to pick the perfect place to commit his crimes. Suffolk County, Long Island. Ready to keep listening? Remember, you can binge the rest of the season right now with an iHeart True Crime plus subscription available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Plus you get exclusive bonuses and ad free listening. So head to Apple Podcasts, search iHeart TrueCrime plus and subscribe today. Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer is a production of Tenderfoot TV and iHeart podcasts, hosted, written and executive produced by me, Josh Zieman produced and written by Kaitlin Colford. Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay are executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot tv. Matt Frederick and Trevor Young are executive producers on behalf of iHeart podcasts. Original music by Alex Laserenko, David Little and makeup and vanity set. Our supervising producer is John street, editing and writing by Daniel Lonsberry, additional voiceover provided by Rachel Mills, additional production provided by Ghost Robot. Sound design, mix and master by Dayton Cole cover Design by Byron McCoy Interns Arnetta Fontenot, Shelby Hansen, Alec Walker Parker and Fox Williams. A and e Television Networks, LLC. Audio from the Killing Season used under license copyright 2025 A E Television Networks, LLC. All rights reserved. Special thanks to the team at United Talent Agency, the Nord Group, Brad Abramson, Todd Leibowitz, Rich Perillo and Jigsaw Productions, Rachel Mills, Zachary Martin Mortensen, Jen Beagle, David Baker, Joe Jacqueline and Evan Krause, as well as the teams at iHeart Podcasts and Tenderfoot TV. Find us on social media at MonsterPod. For more podcasts like Monster Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer, search Tenderfoot TV in your podcast app or visit Tenderfoot tv. And if you want to keep following my hunt for the Long Island Serial Killer for a deeper dive into my other true crime content, join me on YouTube at Sinister with Josh Zieman. Season two of Unrivaled Basketball is here and the talent is unreal. Paige Beckers, Nafiza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more are back to redefine the game. Unrivaled basketball season two, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off January 5 on TNT, TruTV and HBO. Max support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member finra SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comDisclosures bring incredible sound into every corner of your home this holiday with the new Whim Sound Smart speaker. Get high resolution Audio with a 1.8-inch touchscreen, smart control and modern design in one powerful speaker for just 299. From Quiet Mornings to lively holiday gatherings, Whim Sound makes every moment sound better and feel better too. Get the gift of the season for the music enthusiast in your life or for yourself. Whim Sound Beautifully designed, effortlessly connected. Shop now at Amazon and search whimsound. That's wiimsound. Where did COVID 19 really come from? And I don't mean some conspiracy here. Science and the truth are not beholden to any religion or political party. There have always been and continues to be mixed messages about COVID but over 7 million lives have been lost with no real accountability. My name is Payne Lindsey and this is leaked a deep dive to uncover answers about COVID 19 and explore the outbreaks that have forever shaped our modern world. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.