Podcast Summary: Moonshots with Peter Diamandis | "Leading Stem Cell Expert: Stem Cells 101 – The Future of Medicine w/ Robert Hariri" (EP #147)

Date: February 4, 2025
Host: Peter H. Diamandis
Guest: Dr. Robert Hariri, MD, PhD (Chairman/CEO of Cellularity)

Overview

This episode is a deep dive into the revolutionary promise and current state of stem cell therapy with Dr. Bob Hariri, a pioneering neurosurgeon, scientist, and CEO of Cellularity. Diamandis and Hariri discuss stem cell basics ("Stem Cells 101"), the reasons behind regulatory hesitation in the US, the unique promise of placental stem cells, promising clinical results, and the future of regenerative medicine. The episode blends powerful metaphors, real clinical stories, and a frank discussion about what's hype, what's misunderstood, and what's on the horizon.

Key Topics and Insights

1. Regulatory Landscape and Access to Stem Cells

• [00:00, 02:42]
  Peter highlights a paradox: Americans travel abroad (Panama, Costa Rica, Mexico, Antigua, Bali) for stem cell therapies unavailable in the US due to strict FDA regulation.
• Dr. Hariri's take:
  The U.S. is "behind the times" because of conservative regulatory approaches. Despite 30 years of safe bone marrow stem cell use, therapies aren't broadly approved in the U.S.
  • Quote:
    "The United States is sort of behind the times on this... What it needs is a little bit of courage... the value of the therapeutic potential of these things outweighs the potential nominal risk of some uncertainty about long term safety." – Hariri [03:19]

2. Stem Cells 101: Biological Basics and Analogies

• [06:09, 09:50]
  Stem cells begin at conception (totipotent) and differentiate to create all tissue types. They act as the body’s "natural repair kit."
  • Analogy:
    "Just like you renovate your home to keep it in perfect operating condition, it's best to renovate with the original materials that were used to build it in the first place." – Hariri [09:50]
• Stem cells reside in each tissue, directed by chemical signals—a “regenerative engine” that drives your body’s continual repair. As you age, this reservoir is depleted.

3. Stem Cell Depletion: Aging and ‘Running Out of Repairmen’

• [15:32, 18:16]
  As we age, the population of stem cells plummets—a thousand-fold decline from birth to old age.
  • Quote:
    "Over your lifetime, that number declines exponentially. So if you look at the bone marrow of an 80 year old, it's 1 in 20 to 30 million cells." – Hariri [18:16]

4. Sources and Types of Stem Cells

• [21:18, 26:01]
  • Placental Stem Cells: Harvested at birth, previously discarded as medical waste. The placenta is described as a “3D printer” for the baby, serving as a supply depot for stem cells.
    • Quote:
      "If your baby was born with an extra set of kidneys, extra set of lungs and an extra heart, would you throw them out at birth? ... that's what you actually have when you have a supply of stem cells..." – Hariri [70:33]
  • Cord Blood Stem Cells: Well-known in newborn banking but mostly limited to blood cell lineages.
  • Induced Pluripotent Stem Cells (iPSC): Adult cells reprogrammed to function as stem cells, but they still carry the “age” of their source cells.
  • Autologous (self-derived) vs Allogeneic (from donor):
    • Placental cells are uniquely “universal donor” cells due to immune privilege—a lesson from evolution and surrogacy.
    • Quote:
      "Mammalian evolution could not have occurred without the placenta becoming a perfect universal donor tissue..." – Hariri [33:49]

5. Controversies Around Stem Cells

• [36:55, 39:52]
  The original ethical controversy was tied to embryonic and fetal stem cells, not current placental or umbilical sources.
  • Quote:
    "The pro life, pro choice debate was the foundation upon which the controversy around stem cells really emerged. I'm very happy to say that our discovery of the placenta as an ideal alternative to that... [means] no objection to using the leftovers of a full term healthy pregnancy to derive stem cells." – Hariri [37:13]

6. Safety, Clinical Experience, and Regulatory Frustrations

• [40:50, 44:32]
  • Millions of stem cell transplants have been performed safely worldwide.
  • Caution about unregulated “mom-and-pop” clinics in the U.S., emphasizing the need for robust standards and FDA trials.
  • Hariri advocates for a more permissive, provisional approval process to match the long, safe clinical track record, especially for diseases without cures (e.g., ALS).
    • Quote:
      "I do believe there's room here... [for] a provisional approval process where cell therapies that meet a high standard for safety are allowed to be tried..." – Hariri [44:32]

7. Success Stories and Real-World Impact

• [44:32, 49:31]
  • Tony Robbins’ recovery from a massive shoulder injury via stem cell therapy.
    • Quote:
      "He had a life changing response." – Hariri [45:46]
  • Peter Diamandis’ shoulder surgery recovery—faster and less painful after injections of exosomes.
  • Applications range from athletic injuries to anti-aging and joint restoration, with many public and private figures seeking these therapies abroad.

8. Exosomes: "Cellular FedEx"

• [49:31, 56:27]
  • Exosomes are extracellular vesicles, "special delivery packages" containing anti-inflammatory and regenerative signals.
    • Quote:
      "Think of an exosome as a packet of materials that include signaling molecules, growth factors, microRNAs... released by cells [and] deliver that information into the cell." – Hariri [55:18]

9. Muscle Mass, Longevity, and New Therapeutic Targets

• [58:10, 60:55]
  • Muscle is the body’s largest “synthetic organ” and a wellspring for both stem and immune cells.
  • Karolinska study: Lean muscle mass and strength correlate more strongly with lifespan than any other marker, including BMI.
    • Quote:
      "Muscle mass is a better predictor of longevity and health than body mass index, weight, any of those metabolic markers." – Hariri [60:55]

10. The Future: Diagnostics + Therapeutics

• [63:14, 69:47]
  • Diamandis and Hariri discuss their vision for Fountain Life: not just early disease detection, but proactive, data-driven deployment of the world’s best therapeutics, including stem cell therapies.
  • Organ Regeneration:
    Hariri’s early work on "washing out" organs, leaving “ghost organs” (the architecture), then repopulating with custom stem cells for organ regeneration.
    • Quote:
      "If your baby was born with an extra set of kidneys... would you throw them out at birth? And that's what you actually have when you have a supply of stem cells that can be used in these purposes." – Hariri [70:33]

11. Cellularity and the Business of Regenerative Medicine

• [73:11, 76:58]
  • Overview of Hariri’s company, spun out from Celgene. Processes include strict placental tissue banking, manufacturing of both surgical appliances (from tissue) and therapeutic cells.
  • Applications: wound healing, orthopedics, immune therapies, and beyond.
  • Quote:
    "We're a leading company in cellular and regenerative medicine and we are perfectly poised to deploy all these therapies in the future of longevity therapeutics." – Hariri [76:58]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Regulatory Lag:
  "It's really a phenomenon related to the very conservative regulatory nature of the FDA... I think the United States is sort of behind the times on this." – Hariri [02:42]
• On Stem Cells as Master Repair Kits:
  "Nature does that for you by keeping a little supply of stem cells in every organ and tissue of your body." – Hariri [09:50]
• Placental Banking as a Missed Opportunity:
  "It's like throwing away an extra set of organs for your child." – Diamandis [24:11]
• Exosomes Simplified:
  "It's like a special delivery package of an anti-inflammatory growth factor or a pro regenerative peptide." – Hariri [55:18]
• On Aging:
  "The more stem cells you have, the more you're able to respond to the need for repair and renovation." – Hariri [19:09]
• On Diagnostics and Safety Nets:
  "Anything that can identify stuff early enough to be intervened with, that's a principal target of Fountain Life. And we've already proven it works." – Hariri [65:53]

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp (MM:SS) | Segment / Topic | |-----------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00 – 02:42 | Intro, regulatory lag in US, personal disclosure | | 06:09 – 12:31 | Stem Cells 101, biology basics, mansion/repairman analogy | | 15:32 – 19:35 | Aging, stem cell depletion, 'master boot disk' analogy | | 21:18 – 29:48 | Sources of stem cells, placental significance, cord blood banks | | 32:24 – 36:55 | Other stem cell types; induced pluripotency, autologous/allogeneic| | 36:55 – 41:38 | Ethics and controversy, moving past embryo/fetal stem cell debate | | 44:32 – 49:31 | Clinical anecdotes, safety record, calls for regulatory reform | | 49:31 – 56:27 | Exosome primer | | 58:10 – 60:55 | Muscle mass and longevity, Karolinska study | | 63:14 – 66:18 | Fountain Life vision: diagnostics + therapeutics | | 69:47 – 73:11 | Organ regeneration, "ghost organs", future of replacements | | 73:11 – 76:58 | Cellularity overview, products, and business prospects |

Conclusion

This episode delivers a compelling, optimistic, and well-evidenced case for the present and future of stem cell therapies. The science has matured far beyond early controversies; placental and umbilical sources provide safe, powerful regenerative tools. The major hurdles are now regulatory and logistical—not clinical. Dr. Bob Hariri emerges not just as a thought leader and innovator, but as the advocate for making stem cell technology a cornerstone of longevity and healthspan for everyone.

Action Links:

• longevityguidebook.com
• lifebankusa.com
• cellularity.com
• fountainlife.com/peter