Jerry Brudos: The Shoe Fetish Slayer (Part 1)

Summary

**Episode Summary: Morbid Network | Wondery
Title: Episode 617: Jerry Brudos: The Shoe Fetish Slayer (Part 1)
Release Date: November 11, 2024

---

Introduction to the Episode

Morbid delves deep into the dark and twisted life of Jerry Brudos, a notorious serial killer known as the "Shoe Fetish Slayer." Hosted by Ash and Chelsea, this episode meticulously unpacks Brudos' troubled upbringing, psychological disturbances, and the series of heinous crimes that marked his life.

---

Early Life and Family Dynamics ([16:10] - [20:24])

Jerry Brudos was born on January 31, 1939, in Webster, South Dakota, as the second child to Eileen and Henry Brudos. From the outset, the household was unstable. Henry, Jerry’s father, struggled with consistent employment, often moving the family in search of odd jobs. This lack of stability contributed to an environment rife with insecurity and tension.

Chelsea explains, “The Brudos household was never considered safe or supportive” ([17:02]). Eileen, Jerry's mother, exhibited clear favoritism towards his older brother, Larry, fostering resentment in Jerry. This preferential treatment was compounded by Eileen’s open disappointment over Jerry’s birth, as she had hoped for a daughter instead ([19:03]).

---

Formative Experiences and Early Signs of Deviance ([20:32] - [26:52])

At the tender age of five, Jerry's fascination with women's shoes began when he discovered a pair of high-heeled shoes in a junkyard ([21:38]). This innocent curiosity took a dark turn when his conservative mother harshly reprimanded him for playing with the shoes, even going as far as burning them in the backyard and locking him in his bedroom for the rest of the day ([25:24]).

Chelsea reflects on Jerry’s early experiences: “He didn’t understand why his mother was angry. He just kept the shoes hidden instead of getting rid of them” ([25:50]). These actions planted the seeds of secrecy and shame surrounding his burgeoning fetish.

---

Escalation of Behavior and First Crimes ([29:21] - [40:45])

Jerry's obsession with women's footwear intensified during his first-grade years in Riverton, California. His high school teacher’s daily high heels further fueled his fetish, leading him to steal a pair from her desk at age ten ([28:12]). Coupled with ongoing health issues requiring multiple surgeries, Jerry’s time at home with his domineering mother exacerbated his negative feelings towards women ([21:20]).

At sixteen, Jerry's dark fantasies culminated in his first known assault. He kidnapped a neighbor’s daughter, forcing her to undress while taking photographs ([40:16]). Despite the severity of his actions, his mother’s negligence allowed him to avoid early intervention, paving the way for his future crimes.

---

Attempts at Intervention and Continued Descent ([50:07] - [55:29])

Following the assault, Jerry was evaluated at the Oregon State Hospital. Psychiatrists diagnosed him with an "adjustment reaction of adolescents with sexual deviation fetishism" ([52:50]). Despite his troubling behavior, he was discharged nine months later, reflecting a significant oversight in his treatment and rehabilitation.

Returning to his parents' farm after a brief stint in the US Army, Jerry's mental stability remained precarious. His unresolved fantasies led him to commit multiple assaults, driven by a desperate need to satisfy his twisted desires ([61:00]). Chelsea notes, “He was obsessively seeking control and power through his violent actions” ([60:52]).

---

Marriage and Further Decline ([63:18] - [77:32])

At age twenty-four, Jerry married Ralphine Schwindler, a 17-year-old encyclopedia salesperson. Initially, their marriage seemed stable, with Jerry showing affection and engagement with their daughter, Megan ([63:42]). However, underlying tensions surfaced as Jerry's oppressive behaviors reemerged. He insisted on being nude at home and controlling Ralphine’s actions, leading to a strained and abusive relationship ([67:10]).

A pivotal moment occurred when Ralphine denied him access to witness the birth of their second child, devastating Jerry and further entrenching his feelings of betrayal and resentment ([74:05]). This event marked a significant shift, pushing Jerry deeper into his dark impulses.

---

First Murder and Escalation ([84:12] - [87:53])

On January 26, 1968, Jerry Brudos committed his first documented murder. He lured 19-year-old Linda Slauson, an encyclopedia salesperson, to his home under the guise of helping her with her broken-down car. Once inside, Jerry violently attacked her, strangling her to death with a belt ([84:14]). Post-murder, he engaged in necrophilia, photographing her body in stolen shoes and undergarments—a horrifying manifestation of his twisted fetish ([85:04]).

Despite suspecting foul play, the police initially dismissed her disappearance as a potential runaway case, delayed crucial investigations, and allowed Jerry to continue his spree undetected for several months.

---

Psychological Insights and Conclusion ([77:32] - [87:53])

Chelsea and Ash delve into Jerry's complex psychological makeup, emphasizing how his oppressive upbringing, unaddressed mental health issues, and societal taboos around sex education contributed to his descent into violence. They highlight the intersection of his fetish, feelings of powerlessness, and deep-seated hatred for women as catalysts for his brutal actions.

A notable moment from Chelsea: “He’s holding it in. He’s going to explode” ([35:35]), encapsulating the volatile mix of Jerry’s suppressed desires and unresolved trauma.

---

Notable Quotes

• Chelsea: “The Brudos household was never considered safe or supportive.” ([17:02])
• Chelsea: “He didn’t understand why his mother was angry. He just kept the shoes hidden instead of getting rid of them.” ([25:50])
• Chelsea: “He was obsessively seeking control and power through his violent actions.” ([60:52])
• Chelsea: “You need to be in an agreeing situation where that person agrees and is comfortable with engaging in your fetish.” ([71:32])
• Chelsea: “He’s holding it in. He’s going to explode.” ([35:35])

---

Insights and Conclusions

This first part of the two-part series paints a chilling portrait of Jerry Brudos—a man whose early life traumas, coupled with societal and familial neglect, spiraled into a path of obsession and violence. The hosts underscore the importance of addressing mental health issues and fostering open dialogues around sexuality to prevent such tragic outcomes.

As Ash poignantly puts it, “It's weird.” ([73:35])—a reflection on the unpredictable and often incomprehensible nature of human psychology when left unaddressed.

---

Stay Tuned for Part 2: The episode concludes by hinting at further gruesome developments in Brudos' life, promising an even more disturbing continuation in the next installment.

---

Connect with Morbid: For early and ad-free access, join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

Transcript

[Alaina]

Wondery plus subscribers can listen to Morbid.

[Ash]

Early and ad free.

[Alaina]

Join Wondery plus in the Wondery app.

[Ash]

Or on Apple Podcasts.

[Chelsea]

You're listening to a Morbid Network podcast.

[Alaina]

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[Ash]

It's like when you first light up.

[Alaina]

The grill and think of all the mouthwatering possibilities. Learn how to get the new iPhone 16 Pro with Apple Intelligence on AT and T and the latest iPhone every year with AT and T next up anytime ATT connecting changes everything. Apple Intelligence coming fall 2024 with Siri and device language set to US English. Some features and languages will be coming over the next year. $0 offer may not be available on future iPhones. Next up Anytime features may be discontinued at any time, subject to change additional fees. Terms and restrictions apply. See att.com iPhone for details hey, weirdos.

[Ash]

I'm Ash.

[Chelsea]

And I'm Alaina.

[Ash]

And this is Mal. This is morbid. We're apart again, you guys. It's like a running theme.

[Chelsea]

It's. Tis the season, like we both said.

[Ash]

At the exact same time.

[Chelsea]

Yes.

[Ash]

That was wild.

[Chelsea]

That was. Yeah, it's the season of weird stomach viruses. So it has hit our households and so I decided, you know, let's not spread it around to anyone else.

[Ash]

Yeah. I said I'm happy here in my non diseased household.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, it's hit one of my kids. We're hoping to contain it, but you know how that goes, everybody. So pray for us.

[Ash]

Yeah, well, two out of three now technically.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, technically it has. And just parents out there. So, you know, weird virus, strange virus, very quick. So that's good, that's nice. It's a stomach virus, but it's not as intense as like the normal like neurovirus or something like that.

[Ash]

Yeah. If you're gonna have a stomach virus, the best way to do it, this is the one. Quick.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna knock on wood. I'll take this one because it seems to be a literal 12 hour experience. And then they're kind of just on their way out of it. Like it started last night, was over pretty quick with my. My oldest and now she's. She's sitting eating saltines Queen and you know, watching Bluey.

[Ash]

Oh, what I would give to be watching Bluey right now. Right. She's living. I love Bluey so much.

[Chelsea]

It's so soothing.

[Ash]

It is so soothing. It really is. I love it.

[Chelsea]

It's very nice. So I'm hoping, you know, she'll be on the mend and be eating by tomorrow, like real food. So we'll see.

[Ash]

Yeah. Last week was a doozy of a week specifically. But like it. It was pretty rough for me. But I feel like for you it was like there was a couple extra hits that you took that I didn't necessarily.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Um, so we then we did like a little simmer pot. I. I'll post what we did it. It seemed to be a good one. I did it at my house twice and only we did it in the pod lab once. And I feel like the negativity went away. And then I feel like your oldest barfing. She just barfed out the last of the negativity.

[Chelsea]

I know. I feel like she's. She's like a real one. Like she really is. And I think she was just like, I got it. She's kind of. She's like. She's like in the Green Mile. John Coffee.

[Ash]

I've never seen that.

[Chelsea]

He just, like, takes in all the bad stuff. He'll, like, touch someone and take in all the bad stuff, and then he evacuates it out of his body through. It's like bees or something. Or like, oh, okay.

[Ash]

I think I've seen, like, a preview of that.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, he just, like. He, like, coughs it all out, and I feel like my. My girl, she did that last night. She took all the shit of the week and then she.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

Barfed it out.

[Ash]

Yeah, she said she's a real one.

[Chelsea]

That's right there.

[Ash]

You woke up to, like, a lot of good news this morning.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, we woke up to very good news about a guest we're gonna have in the first really exciting part of the year next year, like, February. We can't tell you yet because it's too exciting, and we want to make sure we lock it down first. But that's. It's going to be a very exciting one. It was, like, first thing in the morning, it was like, hey, here you go. And I was like, oh, you woke.

[Ash]

Up and texted that, like, it was going to be a little bit before we could record. So I, like, stayed in my warm, cozy bed, but I put my ringer on in case I went back to sleep. And then I saw a group text with you and this person. Oh, my God. Because we were just talking about it at the end of last week.

[Chelsea]

Yes. And we were about to check in just to be like, oh, do we. Do we think this will happen? And they checked in, which was wild.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

So that's going to be exciting. And then, guys, this is a biggie. I knew Ghost was announcing something this morning, and I said, oh, no, what is it? What could it be? And they had a chapter in the lore and they. They edged us on papa again. But no, they announced a world tour.

[Ash]

I thought Alina was going to, like, like, combust.

[Chelsea]

Lost my damn mind. They're coming to Boston.

[Ash]

Coming up. They're shipping up to Boston.

[Chelsea]

They come into Boston, kid. And I'm so excited.

[Ash]

Where are they playing in Boston?

[Chelsea]

The TD Garden.

[Ash]

Oh, that's. That's a fun venue.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. They're doing the big ones.

[Ash]

I was gonna say. Yeah. Damn.

[Chelsea]

I think they're going to New York doing Madison Square Garden for the first time, too. That would be.

[Ash]

Madison Square Garden is also such a fun venue. I saw Harry Styles there. Very different, but.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, very different. But very, very different.

[Ash]

But still wonderful.

[Chelsea]

Still awesome.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

And Theatrical. So there's that. I want to go to that one really bad. I feel like that would be a fun one.

[Ash]

To New York.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, yeah. Make it a whole.

[Ash]

I'll go to New York with you. Yes.

[Chelsea]

You heard it here, folks. Ashes.

[Ash]

I go to New York with you.

[Chelsea]

To the New York show.

[Ash]

I'll go with you.

[Chelsea]

It will be. But I'm really excited. And that means. I mean, guys, we're going to know who the new papa is soon because they haven't. They redacted the name of the tour because I'm assuming it has something. It would give something away.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

But this will be the new papa on tour, so we must be getting new music, I'm assuming.

[Ash]

I'm very interested to see, like, who this papa will be.

[Chelsea]

The next iteration of Papa.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Chelsea]

I can't wait.

[Ash]

I love the excitement that you get is akin to a child on Christmas morning. Like, the light within your eyes, even right now via zoom, it's just radiating at me.

[Chelsea]

It is. I get so excited. Like, when I saw that they were going to be announcing something today, I sat with my little YouTube app up and they count down and I just waited for it.

[Ash]

I love it. I get excited for you.

[Chelsea]

It's so fun.

[Ash]

And, like, even when I see it, I'm like, oh, I know you're.

[Chelsea]

You guys are always like, here you go. We also. And like, this. This ties in. We went to the night fair this weekend because I went there with wicked good books from Salem and we did, like, a fun little meet and greet signing thing. Like a very impromptu thing.

[Ash]

It was really fun. And they still have some books and they ship everywhere.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, they still have some signed books. So go butcher in the run and butcher game. So check it out. We'll link wicked good books in the show notes so you can go to it if you want to grab one. Um, but I got to meet a ton of people and a lot of people. The amount of people who said, you got me into ghost made my heart sore.

[Ash]

And it was so funny because it was, like, super cold, so we had, like, big jackets on. But anytime someone would say it, I'd be like, show them your shirt. Because she was literally wearing a ghost shirt.

[Chelsea]

And it was like, John, obviously John showed me ghosts, like, a couple years ago. And it's so fun that now I'm like, spreading the good word. I'm just spreading the good word of ghost. And it's nice to hear.

[Ash]

I love it. I love seeing you guys, like, unite in the wild.

[Alaina]

Yes.

[Chelsea]

I love it. Whenever somebody says it, I'm like, fuck, yeah, another one down.

[Ash]

I love it. I love it a lot.

[Chelsea]

But we also got to meet one of my favorite people that I've ever met in my life.

[Ash]

My favorite literally in my life.

[Chelsea]

Chelsea.

[Ash]

Chelsea. Chelsea from Alaska.

[Chelsea]

Chelsea from Alaska. Just. I said it, too. I was like. I was like, chelsea, this has been a shit week. Like, it's been a real shit week.

[Ash]

Like, that morning, Elena got a flat tire on the way to my house.

[Chelsea]

For book club and found out I have to replace all four of the tires on my vehicle at the same time. That was my favorite.

[Ash]

You got one flat tire? And they were like, hey, yeah, actually, all four of these are about to go. And it wasn't even like a. You know, sometimes you go to the car dealership and they're like, oh, my God, the whole car is broken. Should you just get a new one?

[Chelsea]

Yeah. It was literally like, they're bald.

[Ash]

Because Mikey had looked at your tires recently and was like, yeah, girly, these.

[Chelsea]

Are bald kind of bald. So that happened. And I was like, oh, awesome. We're just taking this right into the weekend. But then the night fair was so lovely and so amazing, and everybody we met was so. Was such a fucking shot in the arm. Like, it was such a cool experience. And I love the night fair. Salem just gives me. Always gives me life. Just.

[Ash]

Oh, yeah.

[Chelsea]

Breathing the air in Salem gives me life.

[Ash]

It really does. The second we, like, drive over, like, when you cross into Salem, we're both just like, ah.

[Chelsea]

It's just like this nice little moment. And then meeting everybody was just like, the Salem night Fair. That environment is such a fucking cool environment.

[Ash]

And then Matt and Ryan absolutely kill it.

[Chelsea]

Chelsea. We. We kept Chelsea as a highlight on our Instagram because Chelsea forever. When I tell you this, the energy that Chelsea brought was unlike anything I have ever experienced.

[Ash]

Yeah, it. But just pure. Pure light radiating out of Chelsea.

[Chelsea]

Yes. And.

[Ash]

And all her friends, too. And her sister.

[Chelsea]

Yes. Every. They were all so lovely. And I was like, chelsea, I've had such a shit week, including getting the flat tire this morning. And I was like, I think it. The universe rewarded me for putting up with this week with you. Like, I think they were like, here's Chelsea.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

I truly believe that.

[Ash]

No, Chelsea was iconic. If you follow us on Instagram, go find the Chelsea highlight and you will see just how iconic Chelsea is.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, she just.

[Ash]

Chelsea's from Alaska. She's a fucking marine biologist. Like, you could never be as cool as Chelsea.

[Chelsea]

Never tried. Nobody can You.

[Ash]

You should try. Aspire to be as cool as Chelsea, but I don't know if you'll get there.

[Chelsea]

But that's. That's all of. That's going to be my New Year's resolution. Is she just like, be more like Chelsea?

[Ash]

Yeah. Radiate the light that Chelsea radiates.

[Chelsea]

It was amazing. And also, it's so funny. My. My nephew Aiden, who we've talked about a lot on this podcast, I think he just texted me and said in all caps, did you see that? Ghost is going back on tour.

[Ash]

He just left. I was like, oh, man, I missed it. I wanted to see that live reaction. Right.

[Chelsea]

I want to. I wish I could have seen him, but. Yeah. So a wonderful start to the week. Not great last night, but.

[Ash]

No, but it was the end.

[Chelsea]

You know, my girly is feeling better this morning, so I'm hoping that, that. Yeah, that trends in the right direction. And we got two good bits of news this morning, so that was nice.

[Ash]

Yeah. I get to carve pumpkins with my nephews later. I'm pretty stoked about that.

[Chelsea]

See the A plus behavior today?

[Ash]

Yeah. It's a great Monday.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. And after this, I'm going to go downstairs, I'm going to watch more Bluey with my girl.

[Ash]

Oh, fuck you. I'm gonna. I. I'm gonna watch Bluey by myself when I go down. Hell, yeah.

[Chelsea]

It's very calming. But before we do that, unfortunately, everybody, I'm gonna take you to a dark place.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

Now, spooky season is never over here.

[Ash]

Never.

[Chelsea]

It's never over. But, you know, when we are in the official spooky season mode, we give you a lot of, like, the paranormal stuff and the strange history and the haunted stuff and all that. And now I'm gonna. I'm gonna rip you out of that with a bang.

[Ash]

She's like, come on, get in the true crime car.

[Chelsea]

We're back in the true crime car. We are doing a pretty. A pretty big one today.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

We are doing Jerome Brudos, the foot fetish slayer.

[Ash]

I didn't know his name was Jerome.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, you might know him as Jerry Brudos.

[Ash]

I do.

[Chelsea]

Uh, I didn't feel like we were on that level yet, but I. I probably will refer to him as Jerry because it's easier.

[Ash]

It is, yeah.

[Chelsea]

I don't know why. I think I've only heard him as Jerry. Mostly.

[Ash]

I think just because he's widely known as Jerry.

[Chelsea]

I get that if you've watched Mindhunter, they portrayed him in a horrifyingly accurate way on there.

[Ash]

The way they do that with, like, every killer that they portray. Like, Ed Kemper. That was so accurate. I was like, did you hire Ed Kemper to act in this show?

[Chelsea]

Oh, yeah. Richard Speck and Son of Sam.

[Ash]

Yep.

[Chelsea]

Like, David Berkowitz. I was like, that's David Berkowitz. Like, it's crazy. You brought him on the show. Yeah.

[Ash]

It's, like, uncanny.

[Chelsea]

De. Aged him. Like, it's really scary. If you haven't watched Mindhunter, it's a. It's a brilliant show, and it was taken away from us too soon.

[Ash]

Yeah. Kind of ridiculous. I need to finish season two.

[Chelsea]

It's pretty great, but it's gonna make you sad.

[Ash]

I'm sorry. Can I just tell you one thing? Drew and I. Drew and I started Dexter.

[Chelsea]

Oh, my goodness.

[D]

Yeah.

[Ash]

We've never seen it before.

[Chelsea]

I am so jealous that you get to experience it for the first time. But I have to warn you, we know the end is not going to. It's one of those.

[Ash]

We've heard that the end is not quite like, the beginning.

[Chelsea]

No, no, it's not.

[Ash]

But everybody loves it, like, so much. Like, overall. So I was like. Actually, Drew said it. He was like. Because it's on Netflix right now.

[Chelsea]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And he was like, have you ever watched Dexter? And I was like, I've seen the episode of Boyd Fowler because that's what me and Alina call each other, but I've never seen beyond that.

[Chelsea]

It is. The first few seasons are literally, like, immaculate.

[Ash]

Yeah, we watched the. We watched the first half of the first episode, but I fell asleep because it was after the night fair, so it was late, but I'm ready to dive back in.

[Chelsea]

Oh, you're going to love it.

[Ash]

Yeah, I really, really going to love it.

[Chelsea]

I'm excited for you.

[Ash]

Sorry, I just had to tell you that.

[Chelsea]

But you know what? Back to back to business, because.

[Ash]

Yes. Here we go.

[Chelsea]

This is going to be a rough one. So. Okay, this one.

[Ash]

Buckle up.

[Chelsea]

Buckle up, everybody. So this is going to be two parts because there's just a lot going on. You're going to need a minute.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

So this takes place over the years of 1968 and very well into 1969. It was in Salem, Oregon. Several women went missing during that time and would later turn up dead, all murdered horrifically and showing signs of being brutally tortured. Oh. At first, it seemed like they were never going to connect these women and they were never going to figure out what happened to them. But luckily, finally, investigators questioned the friends of one of the victims who we will get to. And they finally came to identify their suspect and eventually arrested. 30 year old. He was only 30.

[Ash]

30 years old. Yeah.

[Chelsea]

When you look at him, you say that's a hard 30.

[Ash]

Yeah, well, when you. When you're that full of yuck, it usually is.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. It leeches out of you.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

30 year old Jerome Jerry Brudos.

[Ash]

Damn.

[Chelsea]

Now, ultimately, Jerry was going to be convicted of the murders of Jan Whitney, Karen Sprinker and Linda Sally. And his capture and the study of his mind actually ended up establishing what would eventually become the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit.

[Ash]

Oh, really?

[Chelsea]

So he was part of that whole thing. So it was a very person. A very important capture. Yeah. Very important event. I would say true crime. So let's talk about Jerry, shall we? Because I guess, unfortunately, we need to at least know what the fuck was going on with that.

[Ash]

I don't know a lot about his, like, you know, childhood or like entrance into life.

[Chelsea]

It's not great.

[Ash]

Okay. I mean, I had a feeling when he ended up doing what he did that it probably wasn't awesome. But then there are those cases where it is fine, you know?

[Chelsea]

Yeah. I mean, it's. I feel like it's rare that it's like a very nurturing environment.

[Ash]

It is. Yeah.

[Chelsea]

But he was born January 31, 1939, in Webster, South Dakota. He was the second born to Eileen and Henry Brudos. Henry, the father, he was kind of like, when it came to employment, he was very unstable. He would find work farming, you know, random odd jobs, but he wasn't very good at it. So he would end up having to move his family around a lot. So they were never. They didn't really have a lot of stability. Yeah. And at no point would the Brudos household be considered safe or supportive.

[Ash]

Oh, no.

[Chelsea]

For. For those children, Henry was a very insecure man because again, he was not good at anything he did. So, you know, what is there to be secure about? I suppose, you know. Yeah. He was also an asshole. He flew into a rage a lot, like, very quickly. He could not accept any kind of criticism, what he deemed criticism. And Eileen, the mother, was referred to as a stolid woman who dressed neatly and plainly.

[Ash]

Oh, okay.

[Chelsea]

It was made pretty clear from Eileen, the mother that Jerry's brother Larry was her favorite child.

[Ash]

Oh, that's always so fucked up when people like. Yeah, like, you can't announce who your favorite is.

[Chelsea]

And also, what is wrong with you that you have a favorite.

[Ash]

Yeah, that's insane. Like.

[Chelsea]

Like, it's like, what their children.

[Ash]

That in and of itself is very strange to have a favorite, but then to go the extra step and announce who it is is.

[Chelsea]

That's the thing. Like, maybe you get along with one on, like, a better level and you feel, like, more of a connection there. Like, maybe that's what she was talking about, but it's like, to then let the other one know that is messed up. It did not just, like, work on that.

[Ash]

Right.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. So she. She really. She was very much more supportive of his brother Larry. And honestly, she didn't make any bones about letting Jerry know that she wanted a girl and he. And she was hoping he was a girl.

[Ash]

Oh, no.

[Chelsea]

So it's very. It's a little. It's got some Ed Geen vibes with the mother kind of thing where it's like these awful feelings of like, you're not good enough and you're not what I wanted, and you, like, you weren't.

[Ash]

Supposed to be born even, you know.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. And she literally did not hide her disappointment that he was even born.

[Ash]

Wow.

[Chelsea]

Yeah.

[Ash]

That's somebody who should not have had children.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. And they didn't form a bond. Yeah.

[Ash]

If you have that, like, I understand, you know, like, when you're, like, having kids, being like, oh, like, I'd love.

[Alaina]

A girl, or like, oh, I'd love.

[Chelsea]

A boy, of course.

[Ash]

But to be disappointed in what you get is insane.

[Chelsea]

You should be psyched that you have a healthy child.

[Ash]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Chelsea]

Like, that's. And because of this whole thing, like, they never bonded, and she never made any attempt to bond with that child. And then she was very abusive and hostile to him his whole life.

[Ash]

And just Jerry, not Larry, mostly.

[Chelsea]

I think she was just like. I think she was in general, but.

[Ash]

She very much took her anger out on him.

[Chelsea]

Took it mostly out on Jerry. I don't think Larry got as much at all.

[Ash]

That's so.

[Chelsea]

And later, Jerry would describe his mother as stubborn and a selfish egotist.

[Ash]

Oh, okay. Damn.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. So she sounds like she was also, like, very narcissistic.

[Ash]

It does sound that way.

[Chelsea]

Kind of vibes. I'm not diagnosing, but, like, has those vibes.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Chelsea]

Now, this one incident that Jerry could remember from when he was younger definitely had a profound effect. The kind of thoughts he would have later on. I'm not saying what he did later on, but, like, definitely led him into a strange thought process one afternoon while exploring an old junkyard when he was five years old.

[Ash]

That's good that he was Just out in the junkyard at five? Yeah. That's your youngest in the junkyard?

[Chelsea]

Like, imagine my youngest in a junkyard by themselves? No, no, he was just, you know, he was out there, five years old, just exploring a local junkyard and he came across. I know. And he came across a pair of patent leather high heeled shoes in the trash.

[Ash]

Awesome.

[Chelsea]

And his mother was a very, very, extremely conservative woman. So she did not wear high heels. She wore plain flats. And that was it.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

So he had never seen high heels. So this was just something new to him. He was just like, whoa. And he was kind of fascinated by them. So he took them home.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

Because, you know, like, he's like, he's five. He's five.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I need to thank two people in my life today. The one is my husband. The two is my therapist. I have to thank my husband because before I started seeing my therapist, he was my therapist. But then I felt it was important that I hire a professional therapist. Guys, this month is all about gratitude. And along with the people that I just shouted out, there's another person that we don't thank enough ourselves. It's sometimes hard to remind ourselves that we're trying our very best to make sense of everything. And in this crazy freaking world, that is not easy. Here's a reminder to send some thanks to the people in your life, but always include yourself on that list. I'm obsessed with therapy. If you know me, that's one thing that you know about me. I think everybody should try therapy. I think it is super beneficial and I think I'm a better person because of it. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give better help a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. And all you have to do is fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.commorbid today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E L p.commorbid listening on Audible helps your imagination soar. Whether you listen to stories, motivation, expert advice, any genre you love, you can be inspired to imagine new worlds, new possibilities, and new ways of thinking. Find the genres you love and discover new ones along the way. Explore bestsellers, new releases, plus thousands of included audiobooks and originals that members can listen to all they want. With more added all than time, Audible makes it easy to be inspired and entertained as part of your daily routine without needing to set aside any extra time. There's more to imagine when you listen. I finished Slew Foot and I said I need another witchy title to listen to, and my book club decided to listen to Wayward and oh my goodness, I'm so excited. There's three different narrators. All of them have such good voices. I'm super picky when it comes to the voices, but I love these gals and I'm super excited to dive into this title. As an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog, including the latest bestsellers and new releases. New members can try audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.commorbid or text morbid to 500 500. That's audible.commorbid or Text morbid to 500500 to try audible free for 30 days.

[Ash]

Audible.commorbid.

[Chelsea]

And so he's back in his bedroom, and he's, like, playing with the shoes, and he's putting them on himself. He's just walking around. Like, they're a fun thing to play with. And he was just kind of parading around his bedroom at 5 years old with these shoes, which, honestly. So his mother caught him. Which any. I feel like in any other circumstance, this would just be, like, adorable. Oh, you found. Like, what the. I hope those aren't dirty. Like, only fears.

[Ash]

Like, hey, let's watch those.

[Chelsea]

They're from the trash. Yeah, I'll get you some costume ones. But she did not take it well. She.

[Ash]

Very different time.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, very different time. And she was very conservative, so this was how she felt no matter what. And she was furious. She berated him. She was very harsh on him. She, like, punished him for it and demanded that he get rid of the shoes.

[Ash]

It's like, at five years old, you don't understand what is. Why that's wrong.

[Chelsea]

Precisely. And that is literally what happened.

[Ash]

It's not wrong anyways.

[Chelsea]

But, like, you understand why she would say it's right. Like, and that's the thing. He could not understand why she was angry. Right? Like, why did that make you angry? I didn't do anything to upset any.

[Ash]

I wasn't hurting anyone. I wasn't hurting myself.

[Chelsea]

Like, I'm just playing with these things I found that aren't hurting anyone. I don't understand what the problem is. And so he didn't think he'd done anything wrong because he hadn't. And so he hid the shoes in his bedroom instead of getting rid of them. And A few days later, she found him playing with the shoes again. And she was even more angry. And then forced him to watch as she burned them in the backyard.

[Ash]

What the. That's like, sadistic.

[Chelsea]

And it's just weird behavior. Like, you're burning the shoes. What the.

[Ash]

What are they gonna do?

[Chelsea]

Like, what are you doing? And not only that, she then locked him in his bedroom for the rest of the day. At five years old, locking your kid.

[Ash]

In their bedroom ever is a weird thing to do. But at five years old, like, hello? Yeah, that's diabolical, insane. Like, also, like, what if they get hurt?

[Chelsea]

That's the thing. I'm like, what? What are you doing? And when he was finally let out of his bedroom, he immediately ran to the home of a neighbor who was a single woman that he had bonded with. Oh, this single woman kind of was like a stand in for a mother.

[Ash]

It sounds. I was. I was wondering if that was the.

[Chelsea]

Like, she kind of took care of him a little bit.

[Ash]

She was like.

[Chelsea]

She knew what was going on.

[Ash]

Sounds like your mom sucks.

[Chelsea]

And it's like. It sounds like this woman was like a real one. Like, she was just trying to. She was trying to, like, be there for him.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

But she knew, especially at the time. It's like, you know, in the 30s and 40s, and it's like, she's not gonna step in. She doesn't know what the boundaries are here. So she's just kind of being there for him when she can.

[Ash]

Right.

[Chelsea]

Kind of thing. And letting him into her home, which I'm like, what a nice lady.

[Ash]

I know. Yeah.

[Chelsea]

Like, damn, I wish that lady was more of a influence in his life, to be honest.

[Ash]

Sounds like his mom was just there too much.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, it's exactly. Well. And then, unfortunately, a year later, the family moved to Riverton, California, and that's where Jerry started attending first grade. Years later, Jerry would talk about this period as another significant moment in the development of his fetish that would later come out later it violently.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

His first grade teacher would wear high heels every day. And every day, Jerry would just be fascinated with them and daydreamed about them. He just thought they were the prettiest shoes you could possibly wear. He loved them. I mean, high heels are great.

[Ash]

I mean, I love high heels. I get it too.

[Chelsea]

Yeah.

[Ash]

At this point.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. And it was well known that this particular teacher would bring two pairs of shoes to school. A pair for work and a pair for the afternoon. She would, like, change into sneakers kind of thing. Yeah.

[Ash]

She was like, my feet hurt. I'm good.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. And, like, I guess, like, you know, she would change into them, like, later in the day. And one afternoon, when he could no longer resist the temptation, he stole the pair of high heels out of the teacher's desk when she stepped out of the room. And he hid them in the play area. And he was intending to bring them home later, but he was hiding them for later.

[Ash]

This is so interesting.

[Chelsea]

But one of the children found them.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

And, you know, before the end of the day and brought them back to the teacher. And nothing crazy happened from that, but it was just clearly a moment of, like, he's kind of taking it further by stealing them now.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

And this time in Jerry's life was also significant because he was dealing with a lot of health problems. Oh. In fact, during second grade, he missed a lot of school. He was home a lot and in the hospital a lot with measles, laryngitis. He had two fungal infections that required surgery. Wow. And he also had. According to Jerry, he had problems with the veins in his legs, and it would cause him a lot of pain and difficulty moving.

[Ash]

Oh, wow.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. So according to him, he said the veins were ballooning, and I had to have the operations because they were not doing their job. So I'm assuming there was a lot of, like, circulation issues and.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

Now the multiple surgeries and other things he was dealing with meant that he had to stay at home a lot.

[Ash]

Oh, no.

[Chelsea]

And that meant he had to be with his mom a lot. And at this point in second grade, he had already come to despise her.

[Ash]

You're like, seven years old, literally. That's crazy.

[Chelsea]

Like, that's sad.

[Ash]

Yeah, that's very sad.

[Chelsea]

He spent most of his time trying to avoid her at second grade. Wow. Seven years old. And like a. You know, a lot of young people, these early life experiences are eventually going to kind of mingle within, like, your adult experiences, and they're going to create certain things.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

You know, fetishes, certain fears, certain responses that you're attracted to, like, things that repulse you. Like this. Your. Your early childhood really does have a lot to do with that.

[Ash]

They call them formative years.

[Chelsea]

Exactly. It's like you're develop. Where you're developing is, like, so such a huge part of you. And it's like, that's where we all end up being in therapy and finding out these random things that you're like, that's where that comes from.

[Ash]

That's why I do that. Or that's Why? I fucking hate that.

[Chelsea]

Yes, Like a lot. And a lot of it is trauma based, A lot of it is negative based. Of course there's those core memories that form great things later.

[Ash]

Yeah. Like traditions and you know.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. Things that make things that you love and make you happy and things, you know, your career, hobbies. But these negative things really make their mark, unfortunately. And the poor relationship with his very abusive mother and feelings of abandonment, you know, those kind of things would lead to negative opinions about women in general as he grew older.

[Ash]

It's interesting how that happens a lot with boys.

[Chelsea]

Yes.

[Ash]

You know, like when boys have, especially like when they're younger and they have such a bad relationship with their mom, a lot of times it leeches into their opinions about all women because that's.

[Chelsea]

Just like their first experience with a woman.

[Ash]

Yeah. I feel like the same doesn't necessarily happen with girls like as often, you know. Yeah, it is interesting.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. I feel like an almost flips a lot with girls where if you have a poor relationship with your father, you end up trying to seek out.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Chelsea]

Almost that without realizing it.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Chelsea]

Like you, you end up finding men that are like that, you know, and not necessarily punishing them for it, but almost receiving the punishment over and over yourself.

[Ash]

I was going to say. Exactly. Punishing yourself. Yeah, it's, it's, it's an interesting psychology.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, psychology's wild. It is, it really is. And so as he grew older, his opinions about women were dog shit. And also the secrecy around his fascination with women's shoes, because he never grew out of that. He, it stayed. And what he felt was like taboo excitement about them that he would get from them. He kept growing and growing and that would be fine. Like that's a fetish. Is a fetish. A kink is a kink. You. Nobody's here to shame anybody about that.

[Ash]

Right.

[Chelsea]

You know, what you like is what you like and you shouldn't feel ashamed about it unless it's hurting someone. And the problem here was it took a sinister turn because he wasn't just keeping these secret for his own well being, he was keeping it secret because he was taught to. And he was taught that it was wrong. And he was taught that what he was doing was disgusting. Well, like she ashamed of.

[Ash]

Yeah, his mom almost fetishized it for him.

[Chelsea]

Yes.

[Ash]

You know, it's true.

[Chelsea]

She turned it into a taboo thing.

[Ash]

Right.

[Chelsea]

Because at first when he was five, he sat there and said like, why is this weird? Like, why are you mad at me?

[Ash]

Like these are just pretty yeah, These are just pretty.

[Chelsea]

I just like these shoes.

[Ash]

Right.

[Chelsea]

And when he reached puberty and began to associate those feelings with other things, he would associate them with secrecy, shame and excitement, with sex. But then it was also transfused with being abused around those years when he was finding this thing that he liked.

[Ash]

Right.

[Chelsea]

So he was associating it with violence. Yeah. And it was all kind of mingling into something really bad. This also kind of went with. He experienced death at a young age. Oh, really? As well. A childhood friend passed away, one that he was close to when he was very young. And then also that neighbor who was his only source of support, she passed away as well.

[Ash]

Oh, no.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. So that also became mixed up with these feelings as he was entering puberty. And so he would forever associate his sexual interest in women's clothing and shoes. And that would kind of be fused with his resentment of women. And then it would also fuse with his fascination and kind of like dealing with death at a young age. So it all kind of fused together. And again, you never know when these things are going to fuse into one of these little shit balls of just nightmares.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

Because people grow through these things all the time. People go through death at a young age. People go through being interested in something that you kind of feel ashamed about, that you've been taught to be ashamed about. And people deal with shitty parents and shitty mothers and shitty, you know, fathers, authority figures all the time. Sometimes they deal with all three of them and they don't turn into this.

[Ash]

Right.

[Chelsea]

So you just. You just don't know. It's like. Is it a timing thing? Is it. You don't know what's gonna just fuse it into that, like, ball that's gonna turn into this.

[Ash]

Yeah. No, it's. It's weird how it works.

[Chelsea]

Yeah.

[Ash]

You just.

[Chelsea]

You can't. You really can't predict it.

[Ash]

No.

[Chelsea]

But by the time Jerry reached adolescence, the family had moved again, this time to Salem, Oregon. And that's where Henry Brudos, the father, was trying again to be a farmer. And Jerry didn't realize it, but by this time, where he was, like, reaching adolescence, he had already started developing particular sexual interests that he knew. Whether from inference or whether it was implicated to him, he knew he couldn't discuss these sexual interests with others, especially his parents.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

Which is a problem, in fact, in the Brudos household. It's not like he couldn't just discuss these kind of niche and maybe taboo interests he was forming. He couldn't discuss those with his parents. But there Was an air of secrecy and shame that was just around all sex. Yeah. Like, sex was not talked about. It was treated as something that was disgusting and dirty. Like, those are already problematic things that you're teaching your kids because that's not going to give them a healthy relationship with it. But then he's got all these private fantasies that he's being taught were taboo. And it's like, you. You infuse all that together, and that's a mess. He's. He's holding it in. He's. So eventually it's going to explode or he's going to be doing it in secret ways, which is going to lead to him, like, stealing things and spying on people and, like, doing it in the shadows. And you don't want that.

[Ash]

Yeah, exactly.

[Chelsea]

It's not good. I mean, at no time did his parents ever explain sex to their children. Sex education was not taught in schools at the time.

[Ash]

That's so. I mean, it makes sense, obviously, but it's, like, crazy to think.

[Chelsea]

Yeah.

[Ash]

It's like, you need to know the basics.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. That's the thing. So. So what he learned about it was what he saw on the farm. Put. Roll that around in your head.

[Ash]

No.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. He saw things happening on the farm that no one explained to him or from what, like, little. He could take away from, like, boys conversations at school.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

Which.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

Is also going to not be an education that you really want. No. So. Yeah. No, we're not coming into adolescence strong, you know, we're coming in guns blazing.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

Not in the best way.

[Ash]

No.

[Chelsea]

So when he reached his teen years, his fantasies were already taking a violent turn. It was. It was pretty much on track. Unbeknownst to his parents, he spent days digging a hidden tunnel on a rarely visited part of their farm. And in that tunnel, he would just sit there and fantasize about keeping a girl there captive. Oh, yeah. And by his own admission later, he said he didn't even know what he wanted to do with her there. He said he just knew he wanted a girl to be there and to not be able to leave.

[Ash]

Oh, no, Jerry.

[Chelsea]

He didn't even know. He said he didn't know enough about sex or what he was feeling to think that that's why he wanted her there. He just knew he had these, like, overwhelming feelings enough that he had to dig a tunnel and make that actually a reality. And he knew he wanted to keep a woman there.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

Which is, like, so chilling.

[Ash]

And just the fact, like, obviously, you know, he was growing up at the time where it was like, come home when the street lights go on. But just the fact that he could be gone for that long to build a underground tunnel and nobody noticed.

[Chelsea]

Like, nobody asked where he was. He. And at this same time, he was already stealing women's undergarments and shoes. He would steal them from clothing lines.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

And sometimes he would go into unlocked houses in the neighborhood and steal them.

[Ash]

Oh, that's bold.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. So he's crossing lines in a big way here. He's jumping right over them.

[Ash]

Yeah. When you're breaking into houses like locked or unlocked, that, that's, that's, that's a turn.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. Where. That's a place of no return a lot of the time.

[Ash]

Yep.

[Chelsea]

Now these fantasies finally converged when Jerry was only 16 years old. One afternoon he stole a neighbor's underwear from her laundry line and later approached her and offered to help her find her missing clothing. But when she arrived at his house a short time later, he just took her by knife Point. At 16 years old.

[Ash]

What?

[Chelsea]

And forced her to undress while he took pictures of her.

[Ash]

Where are his parents?

[Chelsea]

That's what I'm saying.

[Ash]

He's in his parents house doing this.

[Chelsea]

Yeah.

[Ash]

What the fuck?

[Chelsea]

And at this time, Jerry had been wearing a heavy black mask so that the girl couldn't see who she. Who he was. But she knew who he was.

[Ash]

Yeah, he's.

[Chelsea]

Because he had offered to help her and he, she came to his house.

[Ash]

He said, hey, meet me at my house.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. And years later, somebody asked her because she didn't report the crime to the police.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

And years later, people asked her, like, why didn't you report this crime? And she said, I knew who it was all the time. I was scared if I told, he would find me out and he would kill me.

[Ash]

I mean. Yeah, I don't blame her.

[Chelsea]

So she, I mean, just knowing what he was doing there, you know, he's capable of a lot. But I think also she's like, I knew who he was. Like, I could tell.

[Ash]

It sounds like this is like a grown woman with like her own clothing line, you know, and this is a 16 year old kid. To instill that much fear, whatever she went through had to be horrific. Dark.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, horrific. And this whole incident had been the first foray that he took into actual sexual assault. And while it was probably unbelievably like something we can't even fathom traumatizing for this girl, she was, she was able to get out of there with her life, fortunately. But it was the victim right after her that didn't get away so easily.

[Ash]

So he did this to this woman, which is unthinkable, and then immediately escalated to murder.

[Chelsea]

He escalated. He didn't escalate to murder, but he escalated.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

She didn't get out of there unharmed, physically.

[Ash]

Okay, okay.

[Chelsea]

So from the moment that the. This first girl, who we're not going to name, that got away, like just. And talked about it later and said I didn't want to report it. As soon as she left the house, Jerry was immediately fantasizing of doing it to another woman. He loved it, but he was worried he was going to get caught. So eight months passed and still he didn't do it again. But he felt confident after eight months that he could get away with another assault. So in 1956, he lured a 17 year old girl into his car, promising her a ride home. So as they drove, the girl became confused when Jerry started talking to her as though they were on a date.

[Ash]

Oh, no.

[Chelsea]

And she was like, this is not. You're just driving me home. Like, what the fuck?

[Ash]

Like, why do you think that?

[Chelsea]

No. And her confusion turned to panic when it occurred to her that Jerry had already driven well past where he was supposed to drop her off.

[Ash]

Oh, no.

[Chelsea]

And he was just driving further and further into a more remote part of Oregon. And once they had reached a vacant location in his mind, Jerry pulled the car off the side of the road and hit the girl with a pipe in the face.

[Ash]

Holy.

[Chelsea]

And then hit her in the neck and chest with it.

[Ash]

My God.

[Chelsea]

She was screaming and trying to flee, but Jerry was much bigger and she had already been beaten at this point, so she didn't have her wits about her. She didn't have any strength to get away. She was just, just completely out of it. And he hit her several more times with the pipe and his fists and then dragged her from the vehicle and demanded that she start stripping for him.

[Ash]

Oh, God.

[Chelsea]

And when she refused, he punched her in the face squarely in the nose. And she started screaming again. Oh my God, this poor woman. And fortunately, at that same time that he was punching her in the face and she was screaming, a couple was driving down the road with their windows open.

[Ash]

Oh my. Thank God.

[Chelsea]

And they heard the screams. So the man, which I was like, what a badass man. He immediately pulled over the car to investigate. And when they reached the location, he saw this large man looming over this screaming woman on the ground. So he ran right to her aid. Like he was like this guy.

[Ash]

That's brave.

[Chelsea]

And when he Demanded an explanation. Jerry said, she fell out of the car. She's just hysterical because it scared her. And this guy was like, fuck you.

[Ash]

Like, no, I'm assuming at this point she's like, bloody and like she's been.

[Chelsea]

Beaten with a pipe and punched in the nose. Yeah.

[Ash]

Bruises are probably forming. And he's like, she just fell out of the car?

[Chelsea]

Yeah. And she's just scared.

[Ash]

It's like, okay, why are you foaming over her then?

[Chelsea]

So this guy was like, shut the up. I know that's not what happened. So he changed his story and said, oh, well, actually she was attacked by someone by some weirdo. And I. She was fighting him off when I drove up and ran to help her.

[Ash]

Oh, the hero.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. So according to Jerry, the attacker ran off into the woods just before they. The other couple had driven up. He was like, oh, thank goodness you're here.

[Ash]

How convenient.

[Chelsea]

But you just missed him. Wow.

[Alaina]

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[Ash]

And.

[Chelsea]

When it was just him and this relatively defenseless young woman, Jerry had no difficulty asserting himself and being horrifyingly scary. But in the presence of anyone else, when someone else came upon them, oh, my, did he yield. Oh, I bet he made up the lie, but he shrunk right down when the second explanation was also not going to convince this guy. He also was like, you. I know that's not what happened. You're the attacker. I know that. Like, I'm not an idiot. Yeah, he was like. So when that didn't work, the couple insisted that they take the girl and Jerry back to their house to get it sorted out. And they were going to call the police. So he agreed. And once they were there, the husband called the Oregon State Police and they transported the girl to the hospital. And Jerry was taken to the police barracks for questioning. Gave right up as poor girl.

[Ash]

Having to even get back in a car with him after.

[Chelsea]

Oh, my God. And with another stranger. Like, holy shit, right? So once he was in custody, he confessed everything to the police. Just boom. He claimed he'd only wanted to scare her into taking off her clothes so he could take pictures. And then he denied he'd ever done anything like that before, which we know is not true. He said his temper just got the best of him. Now, unfortunately for Jerry, detectives searched his car and found his photography equipment in the trunk, which they very correctly interpreted as a sign of premeditation. So meanwhile, other officers went to the Brudos household and spoke to Eileen, his mother.

[Ash]

Oh, God.

[Chelsea]

Who gave them permission to search her son's bedroom. Because he doesn't. She doesn't give a. About him.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

And they found a hidden bunch of stolen women's clothing and photographs of a nude girl clearly posing under duress.

[Ash]

Oh, no.

[Chelsea]

That was the first victim. Now. Well, when Eileen confronted her son about what they'd found, he claimed another boy had taken the pictures and forced Jerry to develop them for him. He said I had to. He said he'd beat me up if I didn't.

[Ash]

Jerry.

[Chelsea]

Jerry, shut the up. Jerry was arrested and charged with assault and battery, which prompted the state authorities to take a closer look at his history. So they spoke with neighbors, and they discovered the previous assault that Jerry had committed against that original woman, who a year later, finally felt safe telling the authorities what had happened.

[Ash]

Custody.

[Chelsea]

And given what they had learned they discovered and what they found in Jerry's bedroom, he was taken to the Oregon state hospital for evaluation.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

Because they were like, something is very wrong here. Now, at the time, Jerry brudos was a 16 year old sophomore in high school.

[Ash]

Oh, my God.

[Chelsea]

Yeah.

[Ash]

The fact that he already has, like, this kind of rap sheet. It's a sophomore year. Like, are you serious?

[Chelsea]

He's already this brutal at 16 years old?

[Ash]

That's horrifying.

[Chelsea]

And in his. In his interview with hospital staff, he said he didn't like rough sports, but instead preferred things like 4H and Boy Scouts and photography. And despite the circumstances, under what he'd been arrested for, he was very, like, visibly uncomfortable talking about sex. Like, he had been arrested for forcing a girl to strip in front of him and he could not talk about it.

[Ash]

Right.

[Chelsea]

So Jerry told the doctors he suffered from nocturnal emissions about every two months, but he had, quote, tried to live a clean life and didn't smoke or drink.

[Ash]

What is a nocturnal emission?

[Chelsea]

Wet dreams.

[Ash]

Oh, yeah. Wish I never asked. Oh, yeah.

[Chelsea]

In fact, while they were aware of the things he'd done, doctors still struggled to arrive at a diagnosis. I mean, or to even provide insight.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

They were like, you're a strange one.

[Ash]

And I mean, he is.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. In one evaluation, the psychiatrist wrote, the boy does not appear to be grossly mentally ill. He comes shyly into the interview situation and sits down in a dejected fashion to talk with great embarrassment about his difficulty. He tends to be evasive on a Basis of his acute embarrassment and is somewhat rambling and verbose in trying to tell his story. There is no evidence of suicide, homicide, or destructive urges. Wrong. He feels that he sometimes has trouble controlling his temper, but that has never got him into trouble. Except on this last occasion when he maintains that he cannot remember too clearly exactly what he did but was told. Yeah, but but was told that the girl received a broken nose.

[Ash]

Oh, my God.

[Chelsea]

His insight and judgment are questionable. He feels there must be something the matter with him. And he hopes that he will be able to find it out and have it cured here. Strange.

[Ash]

Yeah. I wonder if that was him pretending like he wanted help or if he actually did want.

[Chelsea]

Or if he really wanted help. Who knows?

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

Now, ultimately, doctors arrived at a diagnosis of adjustment reaction of adolescents with sexual deviation fetishism.

[Ash]

Yikes.

[Chelsea]

So despite having been convicted, Jerry was allowed to return to school during the day, but then he would have to go back to the hospital at night.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. So somehow this was kept secret from his peers at the time. Wow. They didn't know about him being in the hospital. They didn't know about his arrest. So he wasn't dealing with any attention based on that. But after about nine months at the state hospital, the medical staff determined that he was no longer a threat and he was discharged back into his parents care.

[Ash]

Nine months is a pretty short time to determine that.

[Chelsea]

No, he was going to kill that woman.

[Ash]

Absolutely he was.

[Chelsea]

And a year later, Jerry graduated from high school and enrolled at Oregon State University for a few semesters before dropping out in March 1959, when he joined the US army and was sent to Fort Gordon, Georgia for basic training.

[Ash]

It's never good when these kinds of guys enter the army because then they see some crazy shit and they get even more bold.

[Chelsea]

Exactly. For Jerry, the army was his first chance to be completely away from his parents, particularly his mother.

[Ash]

But you would hope would be a good thing. But yeah, it wasn't.

[Chelsea]

And he wanted to establish his own life. He wanted to, like, go get away from what he had been doing. But his old habits and interests were plaguing him. They could not be put away. During the day, he trained at the Signal Corps, giving him the opportunity to pursue his interest in electronics and communications. But at night, his fantasies overtook and he just couldn't get away from them. Not long after transferring to Georgia, he became convinced that, quote, a Korean girl was sneaking into the barracks each night and crawling into his bed and trying to seduce him.

[Ash]

All right?

[Chelsea]

Which I'm like, so he's Hallucinating now?

[Ash]

Yes.

[Chelsea]

He said, I didn't want her. And I came up fighting and beat her badly. He later said, what? And he said the scene would replay itself every night. And to him it was very real.

[Ash]

Is it a nightmare or is it a straight up hallucination?

[Chelsea]

It must be his hallucination because no one else in the barracks ever saw a woman sneaking in, heard any noise, like.

[Ash]

Right.

[Chelsea]

Wasn't happening. Soon he came to dismiss this thing as a kind of hallucination or dream. But he was disturbed. He said that the woman in his dream had aroused such hatred in him.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

He said he could feel how much he hated her. And he said he not only wanted the woman to stop trying to seduce him, but he also wanted to beat her. And at times he said, I wanted to kill her.

[Ash]

What the fuck?

[Chelsea]

Yeah. His revelations later are like, what the fuck?

[Ash]

Yeah. I feel like we've never heard anything similar to that.

[Chelsea]

Well, and interestingly here is. He became concerned about his own mental health here. Like, he became self aware, really. And he knew that this was a problem, that he felt anger and hatred towards this hallucinated woman and that he wanted to beat her. He wanted to kill her. So he's consulted the army chaplain about it.

[Ash]

Wow.

[Chelsea]

And this army chaplain referred him to the staff psychiatrist, Captain Theodore Berry. So after hearing the story about this woman and his desire to harm her, Barry was convinced that Jerry was unfit for Service. So on October 15, 1959, he was discharged under AR635, 208, which is a determination that the individual is unfit for service despite reasonable attempts to correct the problem.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

Now, he was 20 years old at the time, and now he's unemployed, so he has no choice but to move back in with his parents, which I think is the worst thing that could happen.

[Ash]

Yeah. It's too bad they didn't, like, send him to some kind of, like, counseling. Counseling, yeah.

[Chelsea]

Of some sort.

[Ash]

Right.

[Chelsea]

But. So he had to move back on the farm in Oregon, and he started sleeping in the spare bedroom. But not. Not long after he did this, Larry, his brother, returned home from college, and his mother said that Larry should have the spare bedroom. And he. She said, jerry, you go live out in the old shed.

[Ash]

I'm sorry, what?

[Chelsea]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Also, was there not two bedrooms the entire time? Both of them lived there.

[Chelsea]

They must have shared a bedroom.

[Ash]

What the fuck?

[Chelsea]

And now they're not allowed. Now he's not allowed to share the bedroom with Larry. He has to stay in the old shed.

[Ash]

Go live in the old shed. I'M like, lady, your kid is already mentally ill, and you're making him even more so.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, she sounds like a truly just piece of individual.

[Ash]

If you have a child and make them live in a shed, that's. You're a piece.

[Chelsea]

You're a person. Yeah, like, you're just a person now. Frustrated and very, very isolated in the shed, he fell right back to his old habits. And, you know, he was trying to relieve his anxieties and his hallucinations. Now, at first it was. He went right back to stealing women's underwear and women's shoes like he had when he was a child and an adolescent. But it quickly escalated. One evening, while Jerry was running errands in nearby Salem, he spotted a woman in a red dress and started following her. When she reached her apartment doorway, he followed her into the dimly lit vestibule, which is when she realized that someone was right behind her and had followed her in. Before she could say anything, he grabbed her by the neck and choked her until she lost consciousness right there, which takes a while. He just dropped her body to the floor. He didn't know what to do next, though, so he stole the woman's shoes and ran back to his car before anyone spotted him.

[Ash]

So that's it.

[Chelsea]

He just choked her into unconsciousness. This is the wild part of him is. It's like him digging the hole. He digs the hole. He know he wants a. He wants a woman to be in there, Right. But he doesn't know what he wants to do with her.

[Ash]

Right.

[Chelsea]

And even now, he chokes this woman. He does something physically violent, chokes her to the point of unconsciousness, drops her on the ground and then says, I don't know what to do now, and.

[Ash]

Just takes the shoes.

[Chelsea]

Why'd I do that? Like, what's my next move, I wonder?

[Ash]

And I don't know if he just, like, blacks out in these moments and, like, does something. Not blacks out, because I think he fully has intentions to, like, do something. But it's almost like it. He enters this, like, different part of his brain where he does this, and then he almost, like, comes to and is like, what am I doing?

[Chelsea]

I. Yeah. And I think it might be that he is so fucked up about sex and what he is interested in and what excites him. And it's been. And he's had it drilled so hard into him that it's, like, shameful and taboo and secret and all this and, like, violence and all this stuff is intermingling that he literally does not know what to do with a woman.

[Ash]

Right.

[Chelsea]

Like, he knows he wants to do something, but he doesn't. But he's so uneducated about it in a healthy way.

[Ash]

Right.

[Chelsea]

That he literally doesn't know what to do next. He's like, I know I want to do something.

[Ash]

Right?

[Chelsea]

And I know this excites me. I just don't. Literally don't know what the next step is.

[Ash]

Right. Like, he doesn't know what sex even is.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. Like, he doesn't even know what he's supposed to be doing in his, like, deranged mind, you know? Like, very scary, it's very strange. And it's like very different from a lot of these assholes we've covered right now. In the weeks that followed that, a pattern started emerging where Jerry would become stressed and go out for a walk. And he would stalk a woman he noticed on the street, follow her for a time, and then would attack her, choke her, steal her shoes or other clothing items, and then he would just leave her and return to this shed on his parents farm where he would fantasize and sleep with the shoes and just like, touch the clothing.

[Ash]

What the fuck?

[Chelsea]

And feel like he was like, in control again. Or like feel some sort of power.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

Yeah.

[Ash]

That's very bizarre.

[Chelsea]

At a time in his life when he found himself again under his mom's, like, domineering ways and like, abusive ways. I think the stalking and thefts he said later gave him this, like, weird sense of empowerment and control that he was looking for.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

And he was so up that that's the route that he took, you know?

[Ash]

Yeah. I'm just like, just even just picturing this in your head, you're just like. I'm just picturing him like falling asleep next to a pair of shoes and like. Yeah, it's like, that's not weird. But it is so fucking weird, like the way that he goes about it.

[Chelsea]

Because, you know, they're stolen it off of an unconscious woman that he's just attacked.

[Ash]

Right.

[Chelsea]

And it's like, what is this about? I mean, we find out what it's about, right?

[Ash]

And it's just so strange to get that violent and then to just like, to us escalate that far and then to just de.

[Alaina]

Escalate.

[Ash]

So, yes, like, it's like a sudden drop off where he's like, okay, I got what I wanted. Like, bye.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, gotta go. Bye. And then he just relives it and.

[Ash]

Not harm them any further. Like, obviously he harms them and what he does is so fucked. But Then just.

[Chelsea]

But to take it there and then abruptly end it.

[Ash]

Dip. Yeah. Like, it's just strange.

[Chelsea]

And he didn't have any friends at this time. He didn't really have any home life. Like he's got nothing going on except his own anxieties and fantasies and shed life. Yeah. So apparently his professional life, though, was one of the bright spots. Like the only bright spot in his life. His training with the Signal Corps had prepared him for a career in radio communications. And after he had returned home, he found a job as an engineer with a small radio station in Corvallis.

[Ash]

Wow, that's a good job.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. And it was there that he met Ralphine Schwindler, who was a 17 year old girl who was friendly and, you know, she was friends with a boy who hung around the radio station most afternoons. So, like Jerry, Ralphie was shy and timid, had basically no experience with dating. And when she first met Jerry, she was not into him. She was very unimpressed, which I don't blame her. Yeah. He was 66 years older than her.

[Ash]

I was gonna say he's well above 17 at this point, so this is already inappropriate.

[Chelsea]

And she later said, I probably wouldn't have accepted a date with him at all except that he asked me to go swimming and I love to swim. She's like. I was like, damn, any, any chance to go swimming anytime, to jump in that water, you know, what a queen. But by the time he was in his early 20s, Jerry's hatred and disgust of women was, well, cemented. Yeah, but he felt differently about Ralphine.

[Ash]

I was gonna say it doesn't sound like he has hatred or disgust for her. Yeah.

[Chelsea]

Most women intimidated him, which is why he hated and was disgust by. Disgusted by them. But Ralphine seemed to be kind of easygoing. She laughed out his jokes.

[Ash]

She's young.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. Like, seemed to eventually care for him in a way that he had not experienced with any other woman besides that one neighbor when he was. So I think maybe it hearkened back to that. Right. And while most people view Jerry as just a failure and a loser, she kind of didn't. She didn't make him seem that way at least. And Ralphine was honestly, she kind of showed that she was a little like impressed by him at times. Like, while she was not impressed at first, she like, later became impressed with him, like his knowledge of his job and all that. And it made him feel a little. A little good about himself, I guess, for the first time. But her parents was. They were not impressed by Him.

[Ash]

Yeah. Because what's a 24 year old doing with a 17 year old?

[Chelsea]

Exactly. Her mother, whom Jerry described as stubborn and independent and said it like an insult.

[Ash]

I was gonna say, oh, how horrible.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. She strongly disapproved of her teenage daughter dating a man in his 20s. And her father fucking loathed Jerry.

[Ash]

I would.

[Chelsea]

And Jerry later said he felt because he was older that he could decide what we would do, where we would go, all that.

[Ash]

I think he just felt because he was their father, she. Her father, that he would do that.

[Chelsea]

It's like, fuck you, Jerry. Yeah, you're a fucking creep. Now, the fact that Ralphine was still a teenager probably had something to do with her being attracted to Jerry in the first place. To her, he seemed more sophisticated than boys her age. And the fact that her parents hated him only made him more attractive.

[Ash]

It always does.

[Chelsea]

Ah, her. Her age was also probably why she didn't notice any of the red flags that older. An older woman might have picked up on. Oh, yeah, he was very jealous. He was very possessive, very controlling. So when Ralphine became pregnant.

[Ash]

Oh, no.

[Chelsea]

Early on, Jerry proposed that they get married, and she happily accepted.

[Ash]

Oh, Ralphine.

[Chelsea]

And the way he later talked about it, he said, I wanted someone to sleep with, and she wanted out of her home.

[Ash]

Oh, how, how beautiful.

[Chelsea]

And somehow Ralphine later remembered things on pretty much the same romantic playing field. She said, while my home life was a good one, there was this feeling that getting married would be much better than listening to my parents.

[Ash]

She's so young.

[Chelsea]

I'm like, so true love, guys. I see.

[Ash]

It's just so sad.

[Chelsea]

Like, it's so sad.

[Ash]

At 17. You think you're starting. You think you're starting your own life and, you know, going after your dreams.

[Chelsea]

With this man, you get mixed up with this asshole.

[Ash]

Oh, no.

[Chelsea]

They married in 1962, and a few months later, Ralphine gave birth to their daughter, Megan. Now, at first, Jerry and Ralphine's life together was actually pretty happy. It seemed like it was going well. He would lavish his wife and daughter with small gifts and attention. And as far as Ralphine knew, they were doing okay. Financially, everything was fine.

[Ash]

Right?

[Chelsea]

And even though Ralphine's attention was more or less dominated by the baby at the time. They even had a healthy sex life. Like a very normal healthy sex life. At first.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

But then things turned a little bit and things started making Ralphine uncomfortable. Like, whenever they were at home, Jerry insisted that they both be nude.

[Ash]

Oh. Just like at home, at all times.

[Chelsea]

At home.

[Ash]

Okay, that's strange. And also, you have a child.

[Chelsea]

Like, well, that. And that only stopped when Megan grew from an infant to a toddler. And Ralphine said it's not appropriate for us to be nude in front of our child.

[Ash]

No.

[Chelsea]

So it did stop.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

But he was not happy about it.

[Ash]

That's just bizarre.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. Cuz he also is, like, requiring it. Right. Like, it's not like they both made this decision together that they're just like. That's what we need to say.

[Ash]

Like, that's very different from, like, people who, like, what is it called when you're. Is it a nudist?

[Chelsea]

I think so.

[Ash]

Yeah. Like, whatever. Like, that's.

[Chelsea]

And not even nudist. Like, it's just like, some people, when they're at home, they like to be naked, I guess.

[Ash]

I mean, yeah, go off queens and kings, like, live your best life. But it does.

[Chelsea]

Like, we're not a naked household. But, like, I know people have naked households.

[Ash]

I'm not a naked household either.

[Chelsea]

But, yeah, you know, that's just your thing.

[Ash]

But also, it doesn't sound like this was like, she wasn't necessarily consenting to this.

[Chelsea]

No, this felt very much like it was him requiring.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

And she was probably happy to be like, okay, she's a toddler now. We need to stop.

[Ash]

I'm glad that she was able to get through to him like that.

[Chelsea]

Me too.

[Ash]

Guys, we're coming up on one year.

[Alaina]

Since I got married. I can't even believe it. That's the most recent wedding I've been to. And I use Zola to plan the entire thing from start to finish. And I just have to say my vision came to life thanks in part to Zola. It was able to help me capture the emotion I wanted. It actually helped me find my venue. And everything from the music, the food, the style, it just all came together with the help of Zola. One thing that I really loved, that Zola has one of their features, is a checklist. So you will enter the date that you're getting married, and it will give you a checklist from whenever you put that date in there to when that day finally comes. It will tell you when it's time to send out the invites, when it's time to get your dress or your partner to get their tux, if that's what you're wearing. I would have been lost without it. With Zola, you can plan your entire wedding in one convenient place from the day you get engaged and search for the venue to the day you send out your. Save the dates, make your registry, and even taste your cake. Zola has literally everything you need to make the whole process super easy and actually enjoyable. There's even a five star app that helps you plan on the go or even on your couch. Start [e-mail] that's Z O L A dot com.

[Chelsea]

Well, there was also Jerry's constant need to photograph his wife while she was nude or while they were having sex.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

The black and white images were something Jerry could develop himself at home because he didn't know how to do that.

[Ash]

Yeah, she did.

[Chelsea]

She was like, that was fine, I guess, like whatever that's in our house. He's developing them himself. But then he had. He wanted to take color ones that had to be developed at a lab, which meant other people would see them.

[Ash]

No.

[Chelsea]

And Jerry was like, no, it's fine. This is normal. No one's going to care about it. They're not even going to blink an eye. But she said she never felt comfortable about it. She didn't like it.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

Which is not consenting.

[Ash]

Right.

[Chelsea]

And she said she was also not comfortable with what he would have her do in the photos at times, which.

[Ash]

I feel like he probably got off on.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. Like, there was times like she. She didn't mind, like the casual shots around the house of them just like living their life. But she said sometimes she. He would insist that she pull a nylon stocking over her face or wear spiked high heeled shoes. And she just, she said it made her uneasy.

[Ash]

Yeah. Because like, you, like, people can have fetishes and that's completely fine. You, like, we're not fetish shaming. But if you're not interested in that fetish, then it probably feels very off and wrong to you. You know, like, you.

[Chelsea]

It is not okay if your fetish is being forced on another person.

[Ash]

Exactly.

[Chelsea]

You need to be in an agreeing situation where that person agrees and is comfortable with engaging in your fetish.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

That's like what a healthy fetish is.

[Ash]

There are boundaries. And to. I feel so bad that she felt like she had to do this.

[Chelsea]

And she was young, so she's like really being forced into it.

[Ash]

And there's a power dynamic there too, because he.

[Chelsea]

Exactly. And after a couple of years, what had begun as a happy marriage started to kind of devolve into like a difficult, frustrating, and very confusing relationship for her. And the more preoccupied that Ralphine became with their daughter Megan, because children require attention, the more depressed Jerry became. Well.

[Ash]

And also, he doesn't know what Like a good mother child bonding relationship is.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. He doesn't understand that, why she's paying attention to her. And so he would leave the house. And when he left the house and spent a lot of time out of the house, he would engage in his own. His old habits. And when they were at home, Ralphine couldn't help but notice that Jerry seemed distant and became very disinterested in their daughter.

[Ash]

Oh.

[Chelsea]

Actually. Actually just ignoring her, pushing her away whenever she wanted his attention.

[Ash]

Oh, that's really sad.

[Chelsea]

And later, Ralphine would wonder whether Jerry resented Megan for taking up so much of her time. And I believe that is it.

[Ash]

Yeah, it sounds that way.

[Chelsea]

He became more depressed, more unhappy when he was at home. And the more he isolated himself from his family and spent time outside of the house, the worst it got. So by the end of the 1960s, his ability to resist his darker impulses that we know he has inside of him, they were weakening considerably. Now, his path to becoming a killer was very long and very complicated, obviously.

[Ash]

Yeah. Because we're only in the beginning of the 1960s. And at the top of this. I think you said 68.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. And we're starting to enter the late 60s. But, I mean, he's going through so many iterations of what his darker impulses are. And if you try to identify any one thing that pushed him over the edge into violence and brutality, I don't think you'd be able to put. To figure out what it is.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

But we know that an event that happened right before things got really bad was the birth of his second child. And it was in late 1967. And so in Jerry's head, somehow he believed witnessing the birth of this baby would somehow absolve him of all the bad things he'd done and would set him on a better path.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

He said he just believed if he witnessed the birth of his child, he would become a better person.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

Which, like that and of itself is not. You're like, okay, I kind of get it. Sure. Like, it's.

[Ash]

It's a beautiful miracle, Whatever you want to call it.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. So he made Ralphine promise that when the time came, she would have one of the nurses come get him from the waiting room and bring him into the delivery room so he could witness this.

[Ash]

Yeah. Okay.

[Chelsea]

But when the time came, no one came to get him to see the birth.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

And he tried to force his way into the room, but they. The hospital staff actually blocked him and said he. They were given explicit orders from the doctor to keep him Out. Out.

[Ash]

So what the happened there?

[Chelsea]

So this obviously devastated him because he had this whole plan. And then he learned that it was Ralphine who told the doctors not to let him in the room. And so he demanded to know why. Why she would do that. Now, this is horrifying. So Ralphine explained that Jerry had always been so possessive and jealous of her that she thought it best that he not witness what happened during the delivery of a child. She said, I didn't. And this is the way she says this horrifies me, to be quite honest. So I want everybody to know. A little bit of a trigger warning, because this is a little graphic and gross, the way she says this, in my opinion. She said, I didn't want you to watch another man play with me.

[Ash]

That's not what happens during birth.

[Chelsea]

No, that's like.

[Ash]

There's nothing sexual about birth in any way.

[Chelsea]

That's what horrifies me is, like, the.

[Ash]

Doctor is not playing with you. The doctor is delivering your baby.

[Chelsea]

And what happened, Ralphine, that you are suddenly like. And I think it's like she is being conditioned into believing every part of her life is being sexualized in some way.

[Ash]

Oh, wow. Yeah, that's dark.

[Chelsea]

Isn't that horrifying?

[Ash]

Yeah, that's very dark.

[Chelsea]

It's so dark. Like, so dark. And she told him this. Okay, so this marked a big shift in their dynamic. This. This moment. Jerry had always had a disdain for women, obviously, but his wife was never included in that because she, according to him, had accepted and loved him in ways that he had never experienced before. And it was because of that and her refusal that it was because of that. That her refusal to allow him into the room. He felt it was a huge betrayal. Like, he took it as an amazing betrayal.

[Ash]

I kind of get that.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, right. He. In his mind. I get it. Why he. Where his mind is right now, why that would feel like a betrayal to him.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

And obviously, like, there's. There's many layers to this because it's her decision. You know what I mean? Like, that's your choice. Her experience of going on. But I can see why in his deranged mind right now, where his mind is very rancid at the moment, that he's. He had convinced himself that this was going to save him. This was his salvation, seeing this.

[Ash]

And now she took it away.

[Chelsea]

And now she, in his mind, took that from him.

[Ash]

Right.

[Chelsea]

So he's twisting it into something far worse than what it actually was.

[Ash]

Well, and that's also just, like, from a trust Standpoint, like, you've been married. This is your second child. And then, like, you know, they have this plan or whatever. And then to say, like, no. At the last second, he probably saw it as, like, oh, you don't trust me.

[Chelsea]

Exactly. There's so many layers. And she.

[Ash]

It sounds like she doesn't.

[Chelsea]

She did. Yeah. And it sounds.

[Ash]

And why would.

[Chelsea]

She had every reason not to.

[Ash]

Yeah, exactly. Why would she.

[Chelsea]

You can see where both of them are coming from at this point. But, my God, the statement she made about it haunts me.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

1.

[Ash]

The statement that haunts me. And also, that's just so sad. Like, a lot of, like, I would say, like, 99 of the time when you have a child with, like, a partner and you have a happy marriage, like, that's a beautiful, amazing thing.

[Chelsea]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And to have it turned into this weird, dark betrayal, you know, like, fear. Moment of fear.

[Chelsea]

Yes. And it's being sexualized, which is very upsetting.

[Ash]

The whole thing is really just.

[Chelsea]

Yeah.

[Ash]

It's a poor baby.

[Chelsea]

It shows you, though, like, they're his upbringing and how up he was about sex.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

He imprinted that onto her through their marriage because she was young. Yeah. And it obviously is manifesting in ways like this. And what's worse is that night after his child was born, after Ralphine had fallen asleep, he left the house and went into downtown Portland and drove the streets until he finally found a woman that caught his eye. So the night that his child was born, he went out.

[Ash]

Wow.

[Chelsea]

And he watched and followed the woman for hours as she went from one location to the next. Next hours, he followed one woman.

[Ash]

What the.

[Chelsea]

And finally followed her home and watched her windows for hours until the lights went out.

[Ash]

Oh, my God.

[Chelsea]

As soon as the apartment was dark, he crept into it and found her sleeping in her bedroom. And as she slept, he started rummaging through her closet, looking through her shoes. But he was noisy. And so she woke up and found this man in her room looking through her closet.

[Ash]

Huh.

[Chelsea]

So before she could even scream, Jerry was on top of her, his hands around her neck. He claimed he had only intended to render her unconscious so he could do what he always does. Find a light, go through her things and leave. But as soon as she lost consciousness, he said he could not help himself and he sexually assaulted her.

[Ash]

Oh, no.

[Chelsea]

And then he stole her shoes and fled her apartment.

[Ash]

What the.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ash]

His pathology is so weird. It's the stealing of the shoes.

[Chelsea]

And it gets weirder because after all that, that's what he did the night of his child's birth, his second child's birth. After the whole thing with Ralphine, and she's thinking after that whole thing, she's like, I thought it was going to go downhill, our marriage, like, really fall downhill, I thought. She said. Strangely, in the months following Jason, their son's birthday, Jerry seemed to be getting better.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

And she said, and this is sad. She said. Unlike his relationship with Megan, their daughter, which was distant and cold, Jerry was attentive and engaged with his son. Like, she was shocked when he was home. He would play with the boy and talk about all the things he hoped to do with him when he got older. Whenever he went on errands, he. He insisted on taking Jason with him. And he even went out of his way to take on some of the responsibilities around the house, like allowing Ralphine to have a little time to herself as a new mom.

[Ash]

Yeah. Which is so important.

[Chelsea]

So, like, ideal. Like, it's just like, what the. But of course, at the time, she had no idea that despite how he was making things look and how he was trying to put in effort at home, at least with one of their children on the inside, he was just trying to cover up the feelings that he was barely keeping under the surface. Like, he was still. He had all kinds of shit brewing in there that he was just trying to shove down.

[Ash]

It sounds like it.

[Chelsea]

And it was only Jerry's nighttime activities that he kept doing, because he kept doing this. He kept sneaking into women's houses, kept choking people unconscious, sexually assaulting people. It was only that that he claims kept him from exploding every day. So she's thinking he's just on the up and up and he's doing horrible at night to keep himself from doing it during the day.

[Ash]

What a. What a stark contrast there.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. And by January of that year, he finally lost all control.

[Ash]

Oh, no.

[Chelsea]

On the afternoon of January 26, 1968, he was out working in the yard when he spotted a young woman coming down the sidewalk. She was carrying what appeared to be a very large book under her arm. It was 19 year old Linda Slauson, and she had only recently graduated from high school in Rochester, Minnesota, and she had moved to Aloha, Oregon, to start her first job, which was in selling encyclopedias door to door.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

Despite the long hours and a lot of walking involved, the company required their female sales agents to dress nicely and wear high heels, even though they walked to everything.

[Ash]

That's great.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. So she was standing on the sidewalk in front of the Brudos house and Trying to figure out which direction she was supposed to be going into. And it started to rain, so she, you know, she just wanted to get out of the rain to get, you know, set those books that she was carrying down. So she approached Jerry and said she was trying to find the address of a certain house where she had an appointment to show these encyclopedias. And she wondered whether it was his house she was looking for. Jerry looked her over for a moment, and he said he lingered for a second or two on her shoes before he told her, yes, come on in. Oh, no. As they entered the house, Jerry mentioned that his wife was having company upstairs. And he said, why don't we meet in my workshop downstairs to have some privacy?

[Ash]

No, thank you.

[Chelsea]

Go over this. So she went in the basement and she started giving her pitch on the encyclopedias and just making small talk with Jerry as she started to lay out all the products on the countertop. And it was dark in the room, so she was fumbling to find the right brochures and stuff that she was trying to show him. So he was like, oh, let me turn on the overhead lights. And he got up from his stool and went behind her. But instead of flicking on a light switch, he grabbed a length of two by four and swung it at the back of her head.

[Ash]

My God. And is his wife actually upstairs having company?

[Chelsea]

His wife is actually upstairs.

[Ash]

Oh, my God.

[Chelsea]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And this is just happening in her basement.

[Chelsea]

Yep.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

And yep. He knocked her from the stool and sent her through the floor unconscious. And like we said before, since he had been an adolescent. A teenager. Jerry had fantasized about kidnapping a woman and keeping her somewhere and just doing what he wanted, even though he didn't know what he wanted to do. And now he had just taken a step to make that a reality. So he knelt down beside Linda on the floor and detected slight movement in her chest. So he wrapped his hands around her neck and began choking her until he was certain that she was dead. He choked her to death.

[Ash]

Oh, my God.

[Chelsea]

In the days that followed this, he dressed and undressed Linda's body, putting her in the undergarments he'd been stealing throughout the previous months. And at night, after Ralphine and the kids had gone to sleep, Jerry would sneak down to the basement to rape her dead body and photograph her in various states of undress. I did. Yeah.

[Ash]

I did not know that part of that. That he was into that.

[Chelsea]

Yeah.

[Ash]

That poor 19 years old, and she's just doing her job.

[Chelsea]

And it was so fast and so horrific and Then his kids are playing upstairs.

[Ash]

I was just gonna say. And his kids are upstairs. And she's just. And his wife is upstairs. And this dead woman who he murdered.

[Alaina]

Is just in the basement.

[Chelsea]

Yep.

[Ash]

And he's just like her.

[Chelsea]

Fair warning. He's a brutal, sadistic. So, like, fair warning for the rest of this. I mean, part two is gonna get somehow even worse.

[Ash]

Oh, good.

[Chelsea]

But after a few days, when Linda's body had begun to decompose. Yeah. Jerry used a hacksaw to remove Linda's left foot, which he kept in the back of the chest freezer in the basement.

[Ash]

What?

[Chelsea]

He kept her left foot in a freezer in his home's basement with the shoe. Well, in the rest of the remains, he bundled up among some old car parts and threw them, according to him, over a rail somewhere into the Willamette River.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

And later, for reasons that remain unclear to this day, Jerry told investigators he, quote, didn't know where he disposed of Linda Slauson, but thought she was still alive when thrown over the railway railing.

[Ash]

How would he think that if he choked the life out of her.

[Chelsea]

Exactly. And spent days dressing her and undressing.

[Ash]

Her and, like, defiling.

[Chelsea]

Committing necrophilia.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. So it's just he was a strange. Yeah. When Linda failed to return home that evening that she was killed, her mother Mildred reported her missing to the police and told them she'd last been seen in Portland, where she was going to sell encyclopedias. And her disappearance coincided with the disappearance of another local girl, a 14 year old girl named Terry Chambers, whose parents speculated she'd maybe run away to join a quote unquote hippie community in Washington. So Mildred Slauson insisted her daughter was not doing that. She had not run away. She had never given any indication that she was unhappy or wanted to leave home. But the two stories wound up being associated. And Linda's disappearance was just treated as she was a runaway.

[Ash]

Oh, no. It's like, meanwhile, she just graduated. She just got this job. She's literally out doing this job. When she disappeared. Years.

[Chelsea]

And also when the parents are saying she did not run away, they do know their child. Yeah, like you should at least take that into consideration. Now, the photographs and souvenirs Jerry kept from Linda Slauson's murder appear to have been sufficient enough to keep his urges at bay for a little while. But by late November, the holiday period began and the Brudos household was full of Jerry and Ralphine's families. And Jerry's stress began spiking in the Previous months, he would relieve his stress by looking at his pictures. Or if it was particularly bad, he would go out prowling, steal some clothing from neighbors. Clothes, clothing lines, like, do the same old thing. But since the weather had turned cold, no one was leaving clothes on the line. And finding a new trophy meant that he would have to go inside a home. Now, on the evening of November 26, 1968, 23 year old Jan Whitney was on her way to see her parents in McMinnville and her car broke down. It was on the I5 freeway between Salem and Albany.

[Ash]

I just have to point out this is 10 months to the date of the last person he killed.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, you're right. That's a wild. That's weird. Now, a few miles before this, Jan had stopped to pick up two young male hitchhikers. So the three of them got out of the car when the car died and they were all looking under the hood. No. None of them knew what to do. So they were just like, all right, we gotta. We gotta figure out what to do. So Jerry Brudos was on his way home from work and driving down the i5 when he spotted all three of these people standing by the car. This is what's shocking. He spotted two men with her.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

And he pulled off to the side and got out to ask what the trouble was. And when he learned that the car had broken down, he said he'd be happy to fix it since he knew a lot about that stuff, but he didn't have the tools to do it. Instead, he said, I'll give all three of you a ride. So he did. He gave them all. He put them all in the car. And then he let the two men out of the car at the nearest off ramp, which I was like, what the. So they could catch another ride.

[Ash]

It's like, hey, guys, maybe take this girl with you.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, take her.

[Ash]

Maybe don't leave a girl in a car with a stranger.

[Chelsea]

No, especially a girl that just gave you a ride. And he and Jan drove on to his house where he said he would get his tools and take her back to fix the car. When they got to his house, Jerry went to the front door, but was soon back at the car, telling her, the house is locked and I don't have my key, so we're gonna have to wait for my wife to come home. Which is a way of soothing her into like, my wife is coming home.

[Ash]

Oh, I have another woman here.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. He told Jan his wife would only be a few minutes. But in reality, Ralphine had taken the friend. The kids, to a friend's house and wouldn't be back for hours.

[Ash]

Oh, God.

[Chelsea]

And he knew that. So while they waited, Jerry got into the back seat behind the passenger seat and started making small talk. And he said. I said it was a funny thing to ask someone to close his eyes and try to explain how to tie a shoe. Like that was part of their small talk. Like, oh, have you ever tried to have somebody close their eyes and explain how to tie a shoe? It's funny.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

And she. He said, you know, without using your hands to show how. When you can't see. And Jan was like, oh. Okay. So she closed her eyes and started describing how to tie a shoe. And while she did that, he reached down and grabbed the belt that was on the floor in the back seat. And by the time Jan realized what was happening, it was too late. He had looped the belt around her neck and pulled it tight, choking her. When the belt was securely tightened around her neck. Jerry got out of the car. And this is like an. I don't know why. This, like, really chills me. He got out of the car and closed the end length of the belt in the door, tightening it even more and leaving it so that she would not be able to untighten. Like, it was a constant pressure. And then he went inside to double check that Ralphine was really gone. And when he came back to the car, Jan was already dead. She had strangled to death alone in his car and just outside of his house.

[Ash]

It's so wild that he takes people back to his house. Where he lives with his wife and kids and murders them.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. Like, intentionally does that.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Chelsea]

So she was. He confirmed that she was indeed dead. And then he raped Jan's body. And then he took her out of the car. So in the car in front of his house, he did that, Then took her out of the car and brought her down into the basement of the house and started photographing her in the various undergarments and shoes he'd stolen from the neighborhood. Jerry repeated these acts in the following days, like dressing her, undressing her, taking photos. And then it would become clear that he would need to get rid of Jan's body. And he decided he wanted something more than photographs to remember the experience. This one's particularly heinous. I want everyone to know that this might be something that you've heard about this case, but maybe you didn't know it was this case.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

He later said, I thought I could make paper weights out of her breasts. So he said, I cut off her right breast and I was going to make a plastic mold, and then I could make lead paper weights, but I added too much hardener and it didn't turn out how I wanted.

[Ash]

Oh, okay.

[Chelsea]

Now he was going to be making paper weights out of a woman's breasts to use around his house. Huh. And he was expecting to just be able to do that?

[Ash]

Yep.

[Chelsea]

Which is shocking to me.

[Ash]

Makes you wonder what he was doing around that house.

[Chelsea]

Exactly. Now, certain that no one would go into his basement workshop, because he always made sure that they did not, Jerry and the family took a short trip to Portland for a few days, leaving Jan's body in his basement.

[Ash]

Like, dude, that's going to permeate the rest of the house.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, well, and also they were pretty surprised when they came back because they discovered that someone had driven a car through their garage door, leaving a giant hole where the door had been. So the police came out, they wanted to get into the garage, but it was locked. And he said that was close, but what? And he ended up being able to get them away without them looking into the basement.

[Ash]

It always happens.

[Chelsea]

And even that wasn't enough to convince him to get rid of Jan's body.

[Ash]

He still kept her?

[Chelsea]

Yep. He wrapped her body in a sheet and hid her in the pump house while the police looked over the garage.

[Ash]

Wait, while they were there?

[Chelsea]

Yeah. Oh, my God. Then when the coast was clear, he took her body to Willamette river and waited it waited her down and then tossed her body in the river.

[Ash]

Okay.

[Chelsea]

Now, when Jan failed to show up at her parents house in McMinnville, because, remember, she was on her way to her parents house.

[Ash]

Right.

[Chelsea]

Her father, John Whitney, reported her missing immediately. And a day or two later, Jan's car was found on the side of the road with all the doors locked. And investigators were able to get into the car and found that there was nothing to indicate that she, you know, why she disappeared.

[Ash]

Right.

[Chelsea]

And really, other than a camera found in the backseat in her bags, there was nothing of note in the car. And police had a film in the camera developed and discovered photos indicating she might have had a flat tire that day. But that was really all they had. And it wasn't really a lot of help with a lead. It was just like, did someone help her?

[Ash]

Right.

[Chelsea]

And was that the person? But we don't have anything to go on other than that.

[Ash]

Right.

[Chelsea]

And nearly a year passed between the murder of Linda Slauson and Jan Whitney. But far less time would Elapse between the next killing.

[Ash]

Yeah, because he's heating up and he's getting bold. More and more bold. I mean, the police just came to his house and he was able to fucking hide a dead body while they were there.

[Chelsea]

And you would think that would be when there would be a year between murders, but he takes less time now. He goes right back into it.

[Ash]

I think it makes more like. I think it makes sense because he was able to get away with that. So he's so emboldened.

[Chelsea]

He was emboldened. Yeah. And that's where we're gonna leave part one because knew it you. Because we're part two is gonna get somehow even worse. This is all terrible. He's a really, really bad man. He's a really, really bad man. And it's gonna be a lot. So just please be aware of that.

[Ash]

I feel so bad for these women.

[Chelsea]

First of all, these young women, like.

[Ash]

And for his wife and children who were just living in their home while this was going on, unbeknownst to them.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. No idea what's going on. Just hit the. The shit luck of having him as a father.

[Ash]

Yeah. Seriously. Fuck.

[Chelsea]

You feel so bad.

[Ash]

Terrifying.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. All right. Sorry about that, everybody.

[Ash]

Well, we'll see for part two.

[Chelsea]

We sure will.

[Ash]

In the meantime, we hope you keep.

[Chelsea]

Listening and we hope you keep it.

[Ash]

Weird, but not so weird that you'd be stealing people's undergarments because what the is wrong with you?

[Chelsea]

Yeah, don't do that.

[Ash]

And that's the weird that you're mean to your kids. If you don't want kids, don't have kids.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, don't be a dick. Bye bye, Sa.

[Alaina]

If you like morbid, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.

[D]

In a quiet suburb, a community is shattered by the death of beloved wife and mother. But this tragic loss of life quickly turns into something even darker. Her husband had tried to hire a hitman on the dark web to kill her. And she wasn't the only target. Because buried in the depths of the Internet is the kill list, a cache of chilling documents containing names, photos, addresses, and specific instructions for people's murders. This podcast is the true story of how I ended up in a race against time to warn those who lives were in danger. And it turns out convincing a total stranger someone wants them dead is not easy. Follow Kill List on the Wandri app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Kill List and more. Exhibit C True crime shows like Morbid, early and Ad free right now by joining Wondroy. Plus Check out Exhibit C in the Wandery app for all your true crumb listening.