Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3)

Summary

Morbid Podcast Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3) - Detailed Summary

Released on February 6, 2025 by Morbid Network | Wondery

In Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3), hosts Ash and Elena delve into the chilling final chapter of one of America's most notorious serial killers, Rodney Alcala. This episode meticulously unpacks Alcala's crimes, the subsequent investigations, courtroom dramas, and his eventual demise, providing a comprehensive understanding of his heinous actions and their impact on victims' families.

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Recap of Part 2: Rodney Alcala’s Early Crimes and Public Persona

The episode begins with Ash and Elena providing a brief recap of Part 2, highlighting Alcala's initial crimes and his unsettling appearance on the television show "The Dating Game." They emphasize how Alcala managed to evade justice multiple times, serving less than three years for the assault on Tally Shapiro before reoffending with impunity.

Ash [09:30]: "Rodney ended up serving less than three years for the attack on Tally Shapiro, which is fucking insane."

The Murder of Jill Parento: A New Chapter of Violence

The narrative shifts to the tragic case of Jill Parento, a 21-year-old who settled into her new life in Burbank, only to become Alcala’s next victim. On June 13, 1979, Jill was brutally attacked, sexually assaulted, and murdered by Alcala during a Dodgers game date with Dan Brady. Her disappearance triggered a frantic search, leading to the horrifying discovery of her body by her friend Janet Jordan.

Elena [12:34]: "And she was a 12 year old."

Investigation and Breakthroughs: Witness Testimonies and DNA Evidence

Detectives faced significant challenges in linking Alcala to Jill’s murder due to his minimal parole oversight and prior evasions. However, pivotal moments emerged through testimonies from witnesses like forestry service firefighter Dana Krappa and good Samaritan Donald Haynes. Krappa’s observation of Alcala’s suspicious behavior and Haynes’ recognition of Alcala’s likeness were instrumental in narrowing down the suspect pool.

Elena [25:08]: "Thank goodness."

The breakthrough came with the discovery of DNA evidence, which, decades later, allowed investigators to definitively link Alcala to multiple murders, including Jill Parento’s. This advancement underscored the crucial role of forensic science in solving cold cases.

Rodney Alcala’s Arrest and Legal Battles

On July 24, 1979, Alcala was apprehended at his mother's home in Huntington Beach after substantial evidence, including his possession of incriminating photographs and a storage locker receipt, pointed towards his guilt. Despite initial bail settings that temporarily freed him, public and police pressure ensured he remained in custody.

Ash [27:01]: "But barely."

Alcala's trial was marred by contentious witness testimonies and legal maneuvers. Key witnesses, including Dana Krappa and inmate Robert Dove, faced credibility challenges, which the defense exploited to undermine the prosecution’s case. Nonetheless, the prosecution successfully established Alcala’s pattern of predatory behavior, linking him to prior assaults and the murder of Robin Samsoe.

Elena [29:08]: "Yeah. He’s a predator. So that’s for life."

Conviction, Sentencing, and Persistent Appeals

After a grueling trial filled with emotional testimonies and rigorous cross-examinations, Rodney Alcala was found guilty of kidnapping and first-degree murder in May 1980. The jury recommended the death penalty, a decision met with profound relief by victims' families.

Elena [50:16]: "Bye."

However, Alcala's pursuit of exoneration led to multiple appeals, each delaying justice for the victims. In 1984, his conviction was overturned, leading to a second trial in 1986, where he was again found guilty. The relentless legal battles continued, with advancements in DNA testing eventually sealing his fate.

Despite numerous attempts to evade a definitive sentence, Alcala’s persistence waned as DNA evidence conclusively tied him to his crimes. By 2010, after a third trial bolstered by forensic breakthroughs, Alcala was firmly convicted and sentenced to death, though he continued to appeal until his death from natural causes in 2021.

Ash [59:22]: "He’s a monster. He’s not a human being."

Impact on Victims' Families and Legacy

The episode poignantly captures the enduring pain of victims' families, particularly Marianne Fraser, whose 12-year-old daughter Robin Samsoe’s murder left an indelible scar. Fraser’s emotional response during sentencing exemplifies the prolonged suffering endured by those left behind.

Elena [61:52]: "They just couldn’t take a breath."

Alcala’s death closed a dark chapter but left lingering questions about the numerous unfinished cases. Investigations continue, with hopes that remaining unidentified victims may find closure through ongoing efforts to connect missing persons to Alcala’s extensive criminal history.

Elena [65:56]: "Yeah, he did."

Hosts’ Reflections and Broader Commentary

Throughout the episode, Ash and Elena interject with their reflections, expressing frustration and anger towards the systemic failures that allowed Alcala’s reign of terror to persist. They critique the legal system’s handling of such predators, emphasizing the need for reforms to prevent similar cases in the future.

Ash [44:28]: "So fucked up that you're not gonna even, you know, believe anything they say because they've already lied so much."

Elena and Ash also highlight the psychological toll on investigators handling such gruesome cases, shedding light on the human aspect behind law enforcement’s relentless pursuit of justice.

Elena [33:13]: "They have to comb through stuff like that and then go eat dinner with their family."

---

Conclusion

Episode 643: Rodney Alcala: The Dating Game Killer (Part 3) offers an exhaustive exploration of Alcala’s criminal endeavors, the intricate investigation processes, and the enduring anguish of victims’ families. Through detailed storytelling and emotional commentary, Ash and Elena present a harrowing account of one of history’s most malevolent figures, underscoring the imperative for vigilance and systemic change in combating serial violence.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Ash [09:30]: "Rodney ended up serving less than three years for the attack on Tally Shapiro, which is fucking insane."
• Elena [25:08]: "Thank goodness."
• Ash [27:01]: "But barely."
• Elena [29:08]: "Yeah. He’s a predator. So that’s for life."
• Elena [50:16]: "Bye."
• Ash [59:22]: "He’s a monster. He’s not a human being."
• Elena [61:52]: "They just couldn’t take a breath."
• Ash [44:28]: "So fucked up that you're not gonna even, you know, believe anything they say because they've already lied so much."

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key points, discussions, and emotional undertones of the episode, providing an insightful overview for both regular listeners and newcomers alike.

Transcript

[Ash]

Hey, weirdos, it's Ash. Before we dive into today's twisted tale, let me tell you about the spooky perks of Wondery. It's like having a skeleton key that unlocks ad free listening and early access to new episodes. So don't wait. Try Wondery today. You can join Wondery plus in the Wondery app or in Apple podcasts or Spotify. You're listening to a morbid network podcast. There's a lot in life that feels like it should be guaranteed, but it just isn't. Things like your friends being on their way when they text you omw. Or getting out the same number of socks from the dryer that you put in. AT&T is introducing a new guarantee, the AT&T guarantee. Because there's a lot in life that's not guaranteed. The AT&T guarantee means connectivity you can depend on, deals you want and service you deserve or they'll make it right. Visit att.comguarantee to learn more. AT and T connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.comguarantee for details.

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[Ash]

I'm Ash.

[Elena]

And I'm Elena.

[Ash]

And this is morbid.

[Elena]

This is morbid.

[Ash]

I kind of said my name weird. I was like, Ash sounded like I had really big veneers in.

[Elena]

This is Ash.

[Ash]

This is Ash. This is ass, you guys.

[Advertisement Speaker]

This is ass.

[Elena]

This is ass, you guys. No, we wanted to start out again. I don't know when this comes out that, you know, that's gonna be a running theme for a few months. I don't know when this is gonna come out. But we just wanted to say to everybody in the LA area, yeah, we're so sorry. That we are so sorry. And it is literally the scariest thing to watch from the other side of the country. I can imagine. I can't imagine being there.

[Ash]

It's. It's so apocalyptic.

[Elena]

It is.

[Ash]

And it must feel that way to lose absolutely everything and then to see firefighters are just on another level.

[Elena]

Yeah, they truly are.

[Ash]

What, and to see them stacking up photo albums.

[Elena]

I was just gonna say that it's gut wrenching. It's truly is.

[Ash]

And I think that's like all some people are gonna have left.

[Elena]

It's a badass community, though. It looks like everybody's really pulling together and hopefully, you know, rebuild and. And get it all back to where, you know, some semblance of where it was. Yeah, we're gonna try to do something.

[Ash]

Yeah, we're working on something right now. We just don't want to say anything before we get the, you know, we don't want to say anything too preemptively.

[Elena]

We're gonna try to do something. But we just wanted to tell you guys, like, we're thinking of you. We love you. We work with a lot of people in la, we have friends in la, we have loved ones there. So, like, we're thinking of you. We're sending you good vibes and we're sorry.

[Ash]

We are. And sorry that you're probably hearing this so late.

[Elena]

Yeah, I was gonna say, and I'm sorry if this sounds like weird coming weeks later, but we're still thinking of you.

[Ash]

Yeah. We just wanted to say something anyways, no matter how late it was.

[Elena]

Yeah. Just so you know, in the moment that we're thinking of you. Yeah. But also, one thing we wanted to say before this began was like, on a happy note, we're so happy that you guys seem to really vibe with episode 638. I believe it is our last episode. I don't know if it's our last. It's not our last episode.

[Ash]

It's a few episodes.

[Elena]

I don't know what the fuck is going on, guys. I just know that you vibed with an episode. You vibed with the episode the crash of Uruguay in Air Flight 571.

[Ash]

That was a great story. It obviously is, like, gut wrenching, but I think people really liked the survivalness of it all.

[Elena]

Well, and it seemed like you guys, first of all, thanks for saying that was a great episode. I think Dave did an amazing job with the research on that episode. The story is just such a harrowing story and I was really excited to tell it in a way that was a little different and kind of didn't. Didn't Go. Didn't go so hard on the salacious, what people see as the salacious aspects of it. Yeah.

[Ash]

You highlighted more of the actual important details.

[Elena]

But thank you for recognizing that and thank you for letting us know how much you liked it. That was very nice to see. And I think you guys really vibed with how it was an episode about people like coming together to overcome seemingly impossible odds and a terrible, terrible, horrible, no good situation that seemed to have no positive like silver lining whatsoever. But because they worked together and they stayed together, they were able to get.

[Ash]

Out of it topical.

[Elena]

And I think that's important. Everybody work together. Let's all work together. Let's stay together, let's be kind to each other, let's take care of each other and just lean on each other. Lean on each other. That's all. That's all we're saying. We're not going to get into a big thing. I'm just saying, like let's all just work together here. Yeah. Because look at what, what terrible situation these people were able to get out of just by never giving up, never laying down and accepting what they thought.

[Ash]

Their fate was, no matter how hopeless they.

[Elena]

Insurmountable the odds seemed.

[Ash]

The word insurmountable is just popping up in my life a lot lately.

[Elena]

Really.

[Ash]

And I just love it.

[Elena]

It's a great. I love words.

[Ash]

I know, I do too.

[Elena]

Like words are great.

[Ash]

I get it.

[Elena]

I know that that sounds like a stupid statement.

[Ash]

Well, you're an author, so it doesn't.

[Elena]

But I just really like words.

[Ash]

No, I do too. Certain words. I also get an email every day with a word of the day. If you'd like me to tell you about it later. I got you. Let me just tell you about it right now.

[Elena]

Tell me about it now.

[Ash]

Maybe somebody else listening wants to get this email that's word of the day. Let me find it.

[Elena]

It's fun. That's one of the reasons because I'm telling, you know, it's 2025. Why don't we just get like really vibey here for a minute because it's gonna get really dark in a couple minutes. But 2025 guys read, read a lot of books. Get off of social media, get off of the doom scrolling. It's turned into kind of a shitstorm on there anyways. Read some books. I'm telling you, you're gonna like. Once you get in the vibe and you find a genre you like or you find like an author you really like or just a vibe of book you like, you're gonna come out of each book being like, fuck, I. One, I learned something. Two, I felt you're gonna know new, different words. Like, you're gonna. You're gonna come out of there with some vocab. It's fun excellence. And that's fun. And then you feel like tie.

[Ash]

And you just get to drop a new word.

[Elena]

Yes.

[Ash]

I love it. If you can't find me on Instagram right now, I ran for the hills. I am not on Instagram anymore.

[Elena]

Just unplug.

[Ash]

I don't know. You know, I might go back. I might go back.

[Elena]

I might go back.

[Ash]

I don't know where I just went with that. I might go back at some point. But it just was. It didn't feel great. And I was following people that I didn't make the choice to follow. So that was good.

[Elena]

Yeah, that's the thing. So. But it's. You know what? This new year, I think, like, we all, like, especially in the pod lab, I feel like we all. And actually in this house. Cause, like, John was that way too. We all had these, like, just thoughts of, like, you know what? I'm unplugging. I'm taking a step back from all this, like, you know, Internet social media hailstorm that's happening and just, like, enjoying the small things more. And I think everybody needs to do that a little bit and grasp.

[Ash]

I'm gonna go touch it when the snow melts.

[Elena]

But it gives you more time to do things that make you happy and actually feed you.

[Ash]

And speaking of things that make us happy, back to words.

[Elena]

Hell, yeah.

[Ash]

Today's word of the day is. I don't know how to pronounce it. I haven't listened, but it's. Oh, it's bringing me to another place. Hello. It is sedulous. Sedulous. And that means showing, dedication and diligence. It's an adjective.

[Elena]

Is it sedulous or sedulous?

[Ash]

It's sedulous. Oh, okay.

[Elena]

I've never heard that word.

[Ash]

S E D U L O U S. Sedulous.

[Elena]

What is this? This. This outlet that's sending you these words every day? Because maybe people want that word daily. That's very easy to remember. So word daily, I guess if you want a word of the day, things like that, they're gonna make it so fun. That's the thing. The Internet.

[Ash]

Great.

[Elena]

And these are the things that the Internet is great for. Let's find the great thing.

[Ash]

I love it.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So, yeah, that was a lot of, you know, good stuff.

[Advertisement Speaker]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And here's A lot of bad stuff. I'm sorry, we're on part three. So the good news is this is the end. He, you know, we get to see Rodney peace the out, go to jail and then eventually die, which is awesome.

[Elena]

He's gonna shuffle right off this mortal coil.

[Ash]

Get the off this coil.

[Elena]

We were all behind him, pushing him off.

[Ash]

Bye. Bye. So, quick recap of part two for you. Rodney ended up serving less than three years for the attack on Tally Shapiro, which is fucking insane. And he was back prowling on the streets in no time with zero regard for being on parole. He had no regard for being on parole and parole had no regard that he was on parole, which I think.

[Elena]

Is why he had no regard for being on parole. Because if you don't see the parole people having any regard, you're like, why should I?

[Ash]

There was just no regard to be found.

[Elena]

Yeah, the regards were in short supply back then.

[Ash]

The regard was not in the room with us or anyone.

[Elena]

No one could find it.

[Ash]

In between brutal attacks and murders, he made his appearance on the Dating Game, which we've talked about a couple times.

[Elena]

Horrifying.

[Ash]

You know, he left his lasting impression on Cheryl Bradshaw there. And even another contestant, one of the other bachelors.

[Elena]

And if you look at him in those clips, they were right on target.

[Ash]

Dead in the eyes.

[Elena]

You look at him and you're like, gross. There's something just gross about him.

[Ash]

Skeevy.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And finally he was apprehended yet again where he actually confessed to assaulting and raping a 15 year old Monique Hoyt, who bravely escaped and told police everything that happened to her. Yet for some reason, he was released on a ridiculous ten thousand dollar bail instead of the prosecutor's fifty thousand dollar request. So his mother posted that bail. And again, I feel like I've said this 400 times throughout the series, Rodney was back out on the streets.

[Elena]

Yep.

[Ash]

Insane.

[Elena]

Yep. We're still really short on the regard.

[Ash]

No regards. So a few weeks later, after he posted bail and was back home with mom, he gave his notice to the LA Times where he was working, remember?

[Elena]

Oh, yeah.

[Ash]

So effective May 12, he would be unemployed and he told his employer that he wanted to focus on his photography and he was actually thinking of moving up north.

[Elena]

Yeah, you know he's an artist.

[Ash]

Yeah, an artist. It's not that he's, you know, facing serious jail time or anything like that.

[Elena]

No, just artists.

[Ash]

While Rodney was finishing out his last days at the Times, 21 year old Jill Parento was settling into her new apartment. In Burbank. She's super excited just to start her new independent life. A few months earlier, she had started a job as a computer key punch operator. She was making good money. She had everything going for her. She was just really enjoying, like I said, being out on her own, her independence. On June 13, Jill's sister Dede called to find out what Jill was doing that night, if she wanted to hang out or something. But Jill said that she had a date to go to a Dodgers game with Dan Brady. And Dan Brady was somebody that she had known since high school, so this wasn't crazy. But the next morning, Jill's friend Kathy waited by the phone to hear about the date. She was anxious to hear how everything went. They called each other to check in before work almost every single day, but Jill never called. So Kathy thought it was a little bit weird, but she assumed, you know, maybe Jill just went into work earlier that morning and I'll check in with her later.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

But hours later, nobody had heard from Jill, which was very out of character. And her friends and family were starting to get pretty concerned. So not content to just sit around and wait to hear something, her friend Janet Jordan went straight to Jill's apartment to check on her. Poor Janet. Yeah, poor Janet. She had barely entered the apartment and made her way up to Jill's bedroom when she saw Jill's body on the floor. She was lying face up, she was nude, and she had been beaten severely. Janet just ran out of there and ran to the closest phone to call the police. Burbank detective Gordon Bowers was the first to arrive to the apartment, and he was met by Janet, who was so upset that she could barely even speak.

[Elena]

I. Because one of the things you have to think about is she probably thought, oh, shit, the person's probably still in this house. Yeah, like this. The range of emotions and fear you would feel.

[Ash]

Oh, yeah, there's immediate fight or flight. And flight would absolutely kick in. So she was so upset, she could barely talk. Additional officers arrived a few minutes later, and the first thing they noticed was that. And this is so terrifying and creepy. The screen on the window facing the courtyard at her apartment complex had been cut vertically and horizontally, making a large hole so that, like, a person could fit through. Oh, could literally just, like, open it up, open it up, spread it aside, and just get right in.

[Elena]

Holy shit.

[Ash]

And then they also noticed that the light bulb in the stairwell leading to Jill's door had been unscrewed.

[Elena]

What the. That's like strangers.

[Ash]

Literally, the strangers type inside the apartment. Nothing appeared to be out of the ordinary, obviously, aside from what, you know, Jill being dead in the apartment. Her purse lay on the table next to her Dodgers ticket stub and program, and nothing seemed to be missing, though the medical examiner confirmed the obvious. Jill had been violently sexually assaulted. She was beaten. She was strangled. There was severe trauma to her nose, cheeks, her teeth, and even her head. And there were visible ligature marks around her neck, which were caused by the cord from an electric blanket that had been twisted around her throat.

[Elena]

He's so fucking, like, brutal. Like, he's just so violent.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Like, it's the beating.

[Ash]

And a lot of times it doesn't even seem like he came with something to strangle people with. He just finds something nearby. Because a lot of times it's like, you know, their tights that they were wearing, and in this case, it's like an electrical cord blanket. She probably just had, you know, a heated blanket laying around. And that's what he uses.

[Elena]

Just on the fly, because I think it's like, the beating he knows he's going to administer. He doesn't need to bring anything with him.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

That's so scary.

[Ash]

It's. He just incapacitates somebody enough to go find something in their own house, which is even like another level of.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

I don't even know what the word is. Yeah. Now, nearly everything in the bedroom, from the walls to the clothing scattered around the floor, was splattered with blood everywhere. In the autopsy report, the medical examiner noted significant pulling or striking blunt traumas to the head by an object broader than a hammer.

[Elena]

Holy shit.

[Ash]

So that caused extensive scalp hemorrhages. There were also, quote, deep scratches around both breasts, tooth marks and puncture wounds below the left nipple, and cuts on the left side of the left breast.

[Elena]

He's like. He's seriously a wild animal. When you really stop to think about what these attacks must be like. Oh, yeah, it is. He's, like, beyond your wildest nightmare.

[Ash]

He's rabid. Yeah.

[Elena]

He doesn't even seem like a human. No.

[Ash]

The ultimate cause of death was the ligature strangulation. So you imagine that, and I hate to even, like, you know, go further into this, but you imagine he is beating his victims viciously.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

He's attacking them with his teeth, with his hands, with some object bigger than a hammer. And the ultimate cause of death is strangulation. So they're alive while he's inflicting all that pain and just trauma onto them.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

It's awful. The killer had also left fluids on and inside the body. And there was additional blood evidence found on the windowsill, leading investigators to believe that actually the killer had cut himself when he broke into the apartment. So at least that was good that they had bad evidence. Detectives in LA had barely started processing the evidence at this scene when on June 20, a call came into the Huntington Beach Police Department. The caller, Marianne Fraser, explained that her 12 year old daughter, Robin Samsoe, had left the house earlier that day, but she hadn't been seen or heard from since leaving her friend's house on her bicycle that afternoon. Which is so typical. Yeah, just of course, going out on a bike ride with your friend. At that time it was very common for kids to be reported missing, only to turn up a couple days later though, having run away. But in his statement to the press, Lt. Bruce Young told reporters, robin is a, quote, very dependable child who had no history of being a runaway and had never been in any trouble of this nature before. This was not like her.

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[Ash]

A few days into the investigation of Robin's disappearance, Huntington beach police got a call from Dana Krappa, a forestry service firefighter who thought she might have actually seen Robin on the day she went missing. According to Krappa, she was on her way to work that afternoon, and she was driving up Santa Anita Canyon Road when she saw a Datsun F10 station wagon parked at a local turnout area. And she remembered the car because she had actually nearly collided head on with a similar vehicle a few days earlier.

[Elena]

Oh, wow.

[Ash]

Which was weird. As she got closer, she said she saw a dark haired man forcefully steering, quote, unquote, a blonde girl into the woods toward a dry riverbank. She said, she said it was less alarming than it was unusual. So she I was like, I feel.

[Elena]

Like that would be alarming.

[Ash]

I feel like that would be both alarming and unusual. Yeah. So she kept driving and she ignored what she saw. It had completely left her thoughts by the time she reached her destination.

[Elena]

That's wild.

[Ash]

And it wasn't until she saw the notices about the missing girl that she remembered the incident. At the time of her phone call, police had just reported that they were, quote, no further ahead in the investigation than they were a week ago. So the call from this forestry firefighter was the first real lead that they had. Lt. Young described the suspect as a, quote, man in his 30s, 5 foot 11 to 6ft tall, with collar length, dark, curly hair. The description of that man seen by Krappa matched those given by Robin's friends, who actually said a man had approached them earlier that day on the beach and asked if he could take their pictures. So all of the. The description of him, the man that Kraa saw, and the description by Robin's friends all are lining up. Y On July 2, William Popkey, a member of the forest Service spraying crew, was clearing brush near the Chantry Flat campground near the Sierra Madre foothills. And he came across skeletonized human remains that were scattered across the ravine. According to his report, and this is a little brutal, the skull was separated from the neck and the lower teeth were fractured. It almost looked to him like the individual had been struck in the face with a hard object.

[Elena]

Oh, God. And she was 12.

[Ash]

12 years old. When the medical examiner arrived to remove the body, he noted that the left foot and portion, quote, unquote, portions of the hands were missing.

[Elena]

Jesus Christ.

[Ash]

Yeah. By the Time the body was discovered, the scene had been thoroughly trampled by wildlife, so that was going to explain some of that. But still, investigators found critical evidence near the body, including a cane cut brand kitchen knife with blood droplets on it and a beach towel with wipe stains of what was eventually determined to be type A blood.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Ash]

Nearby, there was additional blood evidence found among a pile of rocks and leaves. But there was no clothing found at the scene other than one tennis shoe that bore the name Robin on the inside. Just one tennis shoe. The name in the shoe prompted investigators to check dental records of Robin Samsoe, which would end up being a match for those remains.

[Elena]

That's terrible.

[Ash]

12 years old.

[Elena]

12 years old.

[Ash]

The medical examiner would later conclude actually that the most likely cause of death in Robin's death was stabbing.

[Elena]

Holy.

[Ash]

Yeah. Given the advanced decomp, it was pretty impossible for the medical examiner to determine if Robin had been sexually assaulted. But investigators in Huntington beach strongly suspected that this was their killer's motive. Detective Ron Jenkins said, we're assuming Robin was sexually assaulted and this guy is going to do it again.

[Elena]

Holy.

[Ash]

Yeah. While the medical examiner had been unable to determine the exact cause of death because he thought maybe stabbing, but he couldn't be sure, investigators were treating it as a homicide no matter what. Jenkins told a reporter from the LA Times. I don't think a healthy 12 year old girl walked 50 miles to the hills and then just laid down and died.

[Elena]

No, no, I think we can safely.

[Ash]

Say that definitely not. And also, how crazy is it that while Rodney Alcala was working at the LA Times, these cases were happening? People were reporting on these cases while he works.

[Elena]

While he's working there, which is just nuts. He probably loved it.

[Ash]

Oh, yeah, of course he did. I'm sure they were all talking about it and he was.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So excited about it. Now, the strongest lead investigators had was the description of the man seen at the beach and then later with Robin near the area where her body was discovered. But the problem was that description also matched thousands of people in California and didn't really help investigators narrow down their pool of suspects. Detective Jenkins said, I've had 50 calls from Laguna beach to Santa Monica about this, who this guy is. Since we put out the description of him. If I had 50 people, we could check all these guys in one day. But there's only so many of us, so we have to put the names in some sort of priority.

[Elena]

That's so. That's what's so sad to me is when it's like a resources thing.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

Where it's like, we could check all these. We just don't have enough people.

[Ash]

We don't have that manpower. Investigators also asked for the public's help in locating the bike that Robin had been riding when she disappeared. It wasn't found at the scene, and it hadn't been seen since she left her friend's house that afternoon. Fortunately, Jenkins and his team of investigators would not have to wait long for the public's help. A few days after they released the sketch of the Suspect, Officer Dennis McNaught contacted the Huntington beach division and reported that the sketch and the description of the suspect matched a parolee that he had on his caseload a few years back. And his name was Rodney Alcala. So we love a parole officer finally coming through.

[Elena]

Thank goodness. Yeah, according time.

[Ash]

It's about time. According to McNaught, Alcala had a history as a child molester and a, quote, known penchant for prurient photography of children.

[Elena]

Jesus Christ.

[Ash]

It's disgusting.

[Elena]

He's a monster.

[Ash]

And not only that, but he strongly resembled the sketch that police had released. And it turned out that Officer McNaught was not alone in his belief. A few days later, Donald Haynes, which, if you remember that name, he's the good Samaritan who reported the assault on Tally Shapiro. He called the tip line to report that the man in the sketch strongly resembled Alcala, who he remembered from the.

[Elena]

Assault on T. Donald Haynes.

[Ash]

Good samaritan of the motherfucking century.

[Elena]

The fact that he. The fact that he was following this and was like, oh, no, that's the guy. And I'm gonna make sure they know that. Like, a lot of people. And it sounds sad, but it's like, a lot of people wouldn't.

[Ash]

They don't want to get themselves involved.

[Elena]

They don't want to get re involved. They don't want to, like, deal with it again. This guy was like, nah, fuck this guy.

[Ash]

That's the thing. We tell that the former story way more often than the latter. Of Donald Page.

[Elena]

Absolutely.

[Ash]

It's incredible. I feel like he. I hope he was, like, the head of his neighborhood watch, because I would feel so safe with that man's. As my neighbor.

[Elena]

I hope he just thrived.

[Ash]

I also look. I. I don't know why I didn't already. I should look and see if he got some kind of reward, because he absolutely should have. Yeah. Some kind of acknowledgment.

[Elena]

He's adorable, by the way.

[Ash]

Oh, yeah.

[Elena]

Yeah. He just. He looks like an adorable old man.

[Ash]

I feel like. Good People who are, like, have good inside. Sometimes it, like, really shines through. Yeah, you know, that's true. But based on the tips from the public, his criminal history, and the fact that he was known to frequent the area where Robin's remains were discovered, investigators were granted a warrant for Alcala's arrest and a warrant to search his home and his car. On July 24, detectives arrived at Alcala's mother's house for the 457th time. That's me being hyperbolic. But barely.

[Elena]

But like, not really barely.

[Ash]

They found Rodney just chilling in his bedroom and took him into custody without incident. During their search of the house, though, they found a considerable amount of photography equipment and photographs, as well as a receipt for a storage locker in Seattle.

[Elena]

Ooh.

[Ash]

Yeah. Which. I never knew that detail of this case. That there was a whole storage locker full of nefarious shit.

[Elena]

I had no idea.

[Ash]

They also found a cane cut knife set, interestingly enough. But it seemed as though none of the knives were missing from the set. But still interesting. Other item seized that day included a pair of handcuffs. This is disgusting. Eight issues of a magazine, which. I don't know how it got into publication, but it's called Young and Naked Magazine.

[Elena]

Are you kidding me? Yeah. Get. Get it together.

[Ash]

Disgusting.

[Elena]

Get it together.

[Ash]

They found a leather bullwhip and over 1, 000 photos, negatives and slides. Jesus Christ. He was booked on suspicion of murder, though he claimed that on the afternoon that Robin went missing, he was at Knott's Berry Farm amusement park being interviewed for a photography job.

[Elena]

Oh, you're at an amusement park.

[Ash]

That's good.

[Elena]

Isn't that interesting?

[Ash]

That's disgusting. Regardless of his supposed alibi, he was put into a Huntington beach jail cell and his bail was set at a $250,000, a sum far beyond his mother's reach this time. Thank goodness.

[Elena]

Thank goodness mom can't come bail this fucker out. Honestly, mom should be ashamed of herself.

[Ash]

Yeah, I'm glad you said it. Cause I completely agree.

[Elena]

Yeah, you just. I don't like. You can agree or not. I. Whatever, but there's a certain time when. When they have to face the music.

[Ash]

When the police continuously come to your home saying your son is accused of doing this crazy action.

[Elena]

You can't enable a child who is a grown adult now. It's not like they're a child. It's not like you're saving a child from, you know.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

This is a grown adult.

[Ash]

Absolutely.

[Elena]

He's making stupid decisions and he's hurting people. It's time to start holding him accountable for it.

[Ash]

Well, and it's not like the police just came and said, oh, you know, he's a suspect. He's a suspect. He's a suspect. That happened. But also, he was convicted multiple times.

[Elena]

That's the thing.

[Ash]

Horrible, horrible crimes.

[Elena]

Yeah. Like, and that's the thing. It's like, it's time to start letting. Letting the justice system hold him accountable.

[Ash]

Yeah. So a few days after his arrest, Alcala's sister came to visit him in the. In the Huntington beach jail. During their conversation, guards overheard Rodney and his sister talking about a storage unit in Seattle. And they heard him say to her, do me a favor, get the stuff out of there, get it cleared out.

[Elena]

Holy.

[Ash]

You didn't think anyone was listening to your conversation in prison, sir?

[Elena]

Like, really?

[Ash]

Okay.

[Elena]

He's like, I bet this is totally, like, off the record.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

No one's gonna hear this.

[Ash]

No one's listening.

[Elena]

You know, prison is a place where no one hears anything. It's cool.

[Ash]

The calls aren't wired or anything like that. Not tapped.

[Elena]

No.

[Ash]

But intrigued at the thought of what Alcala could be hiding in his storage Locker, detectives Ed McLaren and Craig Robinson got a warrant to search that unit, and they flew right over to Seattle. When they reached the storage shed, however, they found that it was locked with not one, but two padlocks. Fortunately, they had brought along with them two keys discovered in a briefcase that was seized from Alcala's mother's house. And when they tried them in, the locks, they worked.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Ash]

Can you imagine how that must have felt? Because they probably had those two keys and were like, who knows what actually go to.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And then boom.

[Elena]

Oh, my God. To hear that lock click must have been the most exhilarating and terrifying moment.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Elena]

Of any of their lives.

[Ash]

Because you're like a double edged.

[Elena]

You're like, we're gonna find evidence. We can nail this. Like, this is our time.

[Ash]

But we're gonna. And then you're like, horrifying.

[Elena]

What the are we gonna find in here?

[Ash]

Yeah. Inside the storage unit, McLaren and Robinson discovered what appeared to be an assortment of personal belongings, including cold weather clothing, kitchenware, more than 1700 photographs. Oh, God. A large number of photo slide carousels, including one marked and this is awful. Tali Va rape.

[Elena]

I am so glad that this fucker died.

[Ash]

Same.

[Elena]

And I hope it was so painful.

[Ash]

Awful.

[Elena]

I hope it was an awful death.

[Ash]

I hope he felt every second of every horrific feeling one could possibly feel.

[Elena]

I hope Rodney Alcala got the same kind of experience that Angelus had on Buffy.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Elena]

Where the soul suddenly hits and every bad thing you've ever done rushes like I hope.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

He had to feel every bad thing he's ever done.

[Ash]

Yeah. And the simultaneous feeling of like a bunch of nails lifting his fingernails.

[Elena]

Yeah. I hope that's what I hope.

[Ash]

They also found another photo slide carousel that was marked Ode to New York by John Berger. So boom. Alias. Wow. Dumbass.

[Elena]

He's also. I'm so glad he's so stupid. Same like. That is helpful. Very helpful when they're dumb as.

[Ash]

That's the thing. They also found several pieces of jewelry, and among that jewelry, the detectives found a pair of gold earrings that matched those described by Robin Samso's mother, which she was wearing on the day she went.

[Elena]

Remember, Robin was 12.

[Ash]

12.

[Elena]

I remember. Tali was 8.

[Ash]

8.

[Elena]

Like not taking away from the young women that also lost their lives. It's just like year olds, man. He really. He really hit every, like every age group. He had no actual profile. Except for woman.

[Ash]

Exactly.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And. And he liked woman or girl.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

He's disgusting. On July 26, he appeared in municipal court where he was arraigned on charges of kidnapping, lewd or lascivious acts upon a child under degree murder and robbery. He pleaded not guilty to all charges and a. A preliminary hearing was set for early August. At the same time, the judge ordered that Alcala would finally be held without bail.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Very weird.

[Elena]

Thanks, guys.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

For finally doing that.

[Ash]

Thanks.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

While he sat in a jail cell awaiting trial, investigators started combing through the photos and negatives discovered in the storage unit. Which must have been awful.

[Elena]

It takes like, it's. I don't think we think enough like the average person about the kind of. That the, like the people who go to these crime scenes and detectives have to see.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And have to comb through and then have to just like place aside and move on to the next one.

[Ash]

Like these people have to comb through stuff like that and then go eat dinner with their family. Yeah.

[Elena]

Like they have to see these awful pictures of an eight year old girl being assaulted and brutally. Like. Like harmed and attempted to be murdered. And then some have to go home and see their child.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And then just send them off to school or send them down the street to play or whatever.

[Ash]

The compartmentalizing that must have to happen in your brain is just beyond like. I feel like it's beyond most human capabilities.

[Elena]

You can see why a lot of detectives, like, end up having so much trouble in their personal life.

[Ash]

Absolutely. We even say, like, after recording a case like this, it's tough.

[Elena]

But if I have to. If I was forced via my job description to have to look through every single crime scene photo, like things that are not released to the public and like, yeah, I.

[Ash]

That would break.

[Elena]

I think there's so many cases where I've thought about. I'm like, I can't imagine the people looking at the photos here.

[Ash]

No, because it would break. Even juries.

[Elena]

Juries are shown wild photos sometimes and sometimes they need, like, extensive therapy.

[Ash]

That's actually one of my biggest fears is getting called to jury duty for.

[Elena]

Having to be exposed to some of this stuff. Because it's like, I get it.

[Ash]

Like, well, they see the same, obviously, like on a lesser. They see a lesser amount of it. Yeah, most times. But they see the things that these detectives see and have to go through.

[Elena]

You know, it's damn like the people who do this stuff are. Are different kinds of people.

[Ash]

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[Elena]

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[Ash]

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[Ash]

While the photos contained a large number of young women investigators had never seen before who they believed that Alcala had been stalking throughout the years. So he was also a stalker, which is terrifying, which is the least shocking.

[Elena]

Thing in the world, truly.

[Ash]

They also discovered a photograph that appeared to have been taking taken at Huntington beach on the day that Robin went missing. So there went that alibi.

[Elena]

Yep. Yeah, there that goes.

[Ash]

So the image was actually published in papers across California to be like, hey, if. Who is this woman? Do you have any information? Detectives were contacted by Lorraine Watson, who was the young woman in the photo. And she confirmed the day that the photo was taken, effectively undermining his claim that he was at a job interview that day.

[Elena]

What a dumb.

[Ash]

Truly.

[Elena]

And what a dumb.

[Ash]

The detective work there to be like, maybe we can track this girl down. Like, if you're this girl, my mind.

[Elena]

When they can get that stuff done, I'm like, hell, yeah, it's awesome. Yeah.

[Ash]

Rodney Alcala's trial was delayed multiple times as the defense filed one motion after the other to get testimony and evidence suppressed, most of which were unsuccessful, luckily, and the trial finally got underway in February of 1980, with Deputy Deputy District Attorney Rich Farnell acting on behalf of the state and John Barnett working on behalf of Alcala. The state's case was pretty straightforward. Alcala had met Robin Samsoe on or near Huntington beach on the afternoon that she went missing, and he had taken her up into the mountains, stopping at marker 11, where he sexually assaulted and murdered her. In support of that theory, they called several witnesses, including the two teenage girls that Alcala had approached with his camera earlier that day. Another young woman, Lori Wirtz, also testified that Alcala had taken her photo on the beach that afternoon. So he was just.

[Elena]

Yeah, he was just out there taking.

[Ash]

A prowling on the beach, taking pictures of everybody he possibly could. And all of these women undermined his alibi, which was perfect because now the jury is listening. Yeah, those witnesses helped to place him at the scene. But the state's most significant witness was Dana Krappa, that firefighter who saw Alcala with Robin on the afternoon that she was killed. Unfortunately, while she did appear in court to testify, her testimony was a major revelation to both the prosecution and defense, who were not expecting the story she told because it was quite different than what they had both originally heard. Initially, she had testified that she had seen Alcala and a young blonde girl headed into the woods on the night of June 21st, and that was her extent of involvement in the case. But since Alcala's arrest, she had become uncooperative with police and was very cagey about the testimony that she had given in previous hearings.

[Elena]

Huh.

[Ash]

At a hearing in February 1980, Alcala's defense attorney, John Barnett, pressed Crappa about the truthfulness of her statements. And that's when she started telling a very different story than anyone had heard.

[Elena]

Interesting.

[Ash]

According to her, she had seen Alcala on the day of the murder, just like she had told investigators. But there was a great deal more to it that she hadn't said. It turned out that Just a few days later, on June 25, she returned to marker 11 where she had previously seen Alcala. She said she parked her car, but she left the engine running and she walked a little way up the trail to investigate. She said she hadn't made it very far when she noticed a foul smell in the air. And a few feet away, she saw various pieces of clothing, including that tennis shoe, a pair of shorts, and a T shirt. And remember, they didn't find anything at the scene. A few feet away from the clothing, she said she spotted a body. She said, quote, it was missing the hands and the feet. It was pretty cut up on the torso, arms and legs. It was bloated like an animal gets when it sets a while. She claimed she was horrified and she ran back to her car and then drove to her parents house where she said nothing about what she had found.

[Elena]

I don't get that.

[Ash]

A few days later, she was working on a spraying crew in that same area.

[Elena]

Wait, so babe, you just went back to work? You just went to work?

[Ash]

It gets a lot worse.

[Elena]

Like, what are you doing?

[Ash]

Nothing. Good.

[Elena]

You just going back to work?

[Ash]

Nothing to be proud of.

[Elena]

What the.

[Ash]

So she goes back to work and she's in that same area, and she and William Popkey came upon a pile of bones, believing them to be the remains of a deer or some kind of other animal. She said William actually picked up one of the bones and quote, tossed it at Crappa as a joke. Though she admitted she knew that they were not animal bones. Later that night, she returned to the scene again. It was dark, but in the light of her flashlight that she brought along with her, she said she could see some of the girl's blonde hair and the pile of clothing still near the body. There were obviously signs of further decomposition, and she said the right arm appeared to be missing at that point. Three days later, while working with the spraying crew, was when William Popke finally discovered the remains of Robin Samsoe.

[Elena]

I am literally shocked without words. This is the most disgusting behavior as outside of like being a murderer.

[Ash]

It's also just bizarre. You're like, is that true?

[Elena]

Like, are you. Why would you lie about that?

[Ash]

Why would you lie about that? But why did you lie in the first place? And this story, this story, this story is way worse.

[Elena]

So I get why she lied about it in the first place, because the actual truth that she was forced to tell under oath so much worse is so bad and makes that person look.

[Ash]

So fucked up that you're not gonna. Well, and also at that point you're not gonna believe anything they say because they've already lied so much.

[Elena]

That first story was to cover up what this looks like.

[Ash]

It is.

[Elena]

Because to me, this looks like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Well, I mean, why the fuck are you out here walking around multiple.

[Ash]

Why are you returning to the scene multiple times?

[Elena]

You are returning multiple times. That's insane behavior.

[Ash]

Because it's also like, okay, what's wrong with you?

[Elena]

Oh, so much is wrong with them.

[Ash]

Like, let's, let's pull you aside when this is all said.

[Elena]

Oh, I'd be like, we need to take a real hard look into this person's background because what the is going on there.

[Ash]

The new version of events was not only a stunning discovery to Elena, but also the prosecution and the defense and me as well. The prosecution and the defense had suspected that she was withholding something, but didn't expect that it was so significant. When asked why she hadn't said anything about any of this before, she said, from the very beginning, I was trying to find a way out. I did not want to testify. Blaming it on my imagination was easier to say than actually saying I believed it.

[Elena]

Here's the thing.

[Ash]

I get that.

[Elena]

I get you saying I didn't want to testify. I get it because I think about that all the time. That if you just happen to stumble upon a body, you're now fully involved in that investigation. And that sucks.

[Ash]

That's a nightmare.

[Elena]

Because you didn't ask to be fully involved in that. It sucks ass.

[Ash]

It's a lot of weight to carry.

[Elena]

I totally get that. Hearing that makes a little. Nope, nothing. I get that. I get that feeling. Still doesn't make sense. You still have an obligation as a fellow human. You just do. I know it's going to suck, but you have a fucking obligation as a fellow human. Well, that's, as you see, blonde hair. This is a 12 year old.

[Ash]

And you know that it's a, you.

[Elena]

Know, this is a child. Like, you can tell.

[Ash]

You saw her. That's the other thing. You thought you saw them.

[Elena]

So it's like you saw her alive. And now you're just going to work and going home and acting and letting your fucking co worker throw her bones about.

[Ash]

That's the part that I'm like, okay, when. As soon as that happened, you, you should have called the police and been like, we thought this was animal bones, but I don't think it is. Can you come out here and check?

[Elena]

And it's.

[Ash]

That's the part where it would have been like, okay, you up. But, like, you were scared. When it gets to the point where it's like, I saw something. I didn't say anything. And then I saw another thing and somebody threw something at me, and I didn't say anything. And then I went back a third time, and I still didn't say anything. And then I decided maybe I should.

[Elena]

Say, here's the other thing, too. Again, I understand not wanting to have to testify and not wanting being thrust into the investigation like that. I can't imagine. I've never stumbled upon a dead body. No.

[Ash]

And hope to never.

[Elena]

Why did you keep going back to it if you didn't want to be involved in this? Why the fuck did you keep going and looking at that body? Because you've involved yourself. That's the person to me that tells me that you're fucking curious and you don't know, like, there's something wrong here. That's not somebody who doesn't want to be involved.

[Ash]

The only thing. The only thing that I can think of is that she thought that her imagination was playing tricks on her. And she's like, is this a human? Is this a human? But it's. Babe, call someone.

[Elena]

And it is. You don't need to go back four different times and smell that smell to know that you're looking at a human being. Let's be real.

[Ash]

It's. And to, like, bring a work crew out there, it's just.

[Elena]

I can't. Again, I can get down with you. The feeling of being scared to have to testify and be involved in the whole thing. What you did is up beyond measure. And I can't understand it.

[Ash]

No. So that's that. Damn.

[Elena]

I didn't see that happening yet.

[Ash]

No one did. Holy. Her decision to reveal the truth was a major blow to the. The prosecution because it called into question the credibility of her testimony. Her testimony, which was the key to the prosecution's case. So everybody's stunned. Another important witness for the prosecution, Robert Dove, had similar credibility problems. He was an inmate at the Huntington beach jail where Alcala was held pending trial. And he testified that during his time there, he overheard Alcala discussing Robin's murder and boasting about his chances of an acquittal. This inmate claimed he heard Alcala tell another inmate, no one's seen me take her, and added that he didn't stab her, but he, quote, slapped her unconscious.

[Elena]

Jesus Christ.

[Ash]

Which is just so brutal.

[Elena]

Yeah, I.

[Ash]

He also told the inmate they, quote, would never convict him without the, quote, film and the bike and they would not find the bike. So that's. Although the credibility of those two witnesses, two key witnesses, was weakened under cross examination, the prosecution was handed a major victory when the judge allowed for Alcala's previous arrest record and violent conduct to be brought to the attention of the jury. Thank goodness that doesn't happen a lot.

[Elena]

No, it doesn't. It's kind of stupid, in my opinion. It is.

[Ash]

I agree. I know. It's like a case by case thing.

[Elena]

No, I know in a lot of.

[Ash]

Cases, it's a slippery slip, you know, but in this one, it's like, yeah, come on. As a result, though, the entire courtroom was familiarized with the assault, the assault on Tally Shapiro in 1960, the kidnapping of Julie Johnson in 1975. If you don't remember, that's from part two, where he had kidnapped that girl.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

She was on her way to. Julie Johnson was on her way to school, and he forced her to smoke weed. And then the park ranger found them, and nobody believed that. Nobody believed her.

[Elena]

They thought she. This child was at fault for going with the scrum man.

[Ash]

And of course, they were made aware of the recent sexual assault and kidnapping of Monique, which he hadn't even faced yet. He was still. He was out on bail for all that.

[Elena]

Awesome.

[Ash]

The criminal history established, obviously, a pattern of luring young girls into his car and then attacking them violently, which is precisely what the prosecutor Farnell argued had happened to Robin Samso. And it's also just facts. In his closing arguments, John Barnett flatly rejected the prosecution's theory and argued to the jury that Dana Krappa's dishonesty, quote, entirely discredits the prosecution's case.

[Elena]

Case, which.

[Ash]

Not exactly.

[Elena]

I don't think so, no.

[Ash]

He said, though, if they couldn't trust the prosecution's key eyewitness, could they really be certain, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the rest of their theory was accurate? He said, quote, set your emotions aside, set your feelings aside. Decide on the. Decide the case on the facts. If we are to be a country of laws, you must acquit. Because the prosecutors have failed to prove their burden beyond a reasonable doubt. It's like, that's not actually up for you to decide.

[Elena]

You. I mean, that is some. I know it's his job. That's some slimy ass.

[Ash]

In this case, I'm not saying all defense attorneys, but in this case, that's some slimy.

[Elena]

In this actual case, it is horrifying.

[Ash]

You're defending somebody who was literally and has been caught many times, multiple times for assaulting young.

[Elena]

He's a. Children and women like you're defending a predator. That's a problem.

[Ash]

And it's a. He's an established.

[Elena]

And I get it. I know. I know. Somebody needs to defend all the people and all that. I don't like it in this case.

[Ash]

I don't like it in this case either. So deal with it. Yeah. After two months of testimony and evidence, the jury deliberated for nearly a day before returning with their verdict, finding Rodney Alcala guilty on charges of kidnapping and first degree murder. On May 7, he returned to court for the penalty phase of the trial. And that was when the jury was asked to determine whether aggravating circumstances were such that they warranted the death penalty. During this time, Farnell attempted to establish for the jury that Alcala had in fact killed before. He referred to the 1977 murder of Ellen Hover, where the judge sustained the defense's objections because there was unfortunately never sufficient evidence or a conviction for Ellen Hover's murder, unfortunately.

[Elena]

Which is awful, even.

[Ash]

Well, we'll get there. Don't worry.

[Elena]

Oh, good.

[Ash]

Even though Farnell wasn't able to connect Alcala to Hover's murder, the jury still returned a recommendation that Rodney Alcala be sentenced to death for the murder of Robin Samson. So he didn't even need to introduce that.

[Elena]

They were like, yeah, no, they were like, we got you. And honestly, life was going to introduce him the death penalty anyways, so that's exactly not.

[Ash]

Unfortunately, not like right away.

[Elena]

Yeah. It usually takes a while.

[Ash]

I know. When the recommendation was read, Robin's mother, Marian Fraser, shouted. All right. From her seat near the front of the courtroom. And then she collapsed into the arms of a police officer next to her.

[Elena]

I would be the same way.

[Ash]

Oh, yeah, absolutely the same way. That's your baby. That's her 12 year old baby who went to hang out with her friends and ride her bike around.

[Elena]

Yep.

[Ash]

Which she should be able to fucking do.

[Elena]

Like you. Everybody knows our stances and all that on the death penalty. I don't need to say it again, but I can say 100%. I would be 100% for it if it was my child.

[Ash]

Yep. Yup, yup. Not a doubt in my mind. I don't even have kids yet. Not a doubt in my mind. Judge Schwab set a date of June 20th for official sentencing. In between the recommendation phase and the final sentencing on June 20, Alcala and his attorney, of course, petitioned the state supreme Court for a new trial. They argued that the evidence in the case Primarily, the jewelry and the photos seized from the storage locker had been obtained illegally and should warrant a new trial.

[Elena]

Shut the fuck up.

[Ash]

But they weren't. They had search warrants.

[Elena]

No. Shut up.

[Ash]

The Supreme Court, though, rejected the petition entirely. And on June 20, Rodney Alcala was formally sentenced to death.

[Elena]

Bye.

[Ash]

But that is not the end of our story.

[Elena]

No, of course not.

[Ash]

There's one thing that will forever change the way you sleep, and it's the softest, 100% organic cotton sheets from Boll and Branch. You'll fall asleep faster wrapped in the most luxurious comfort. You'll never sleep hot again with sheets that feel breathable to sleep in. You'll experience the purest softness on night one and feel your sheets get even softer with every wash. Discover the difference with 15% off your first set of sheets at BollandBranch.com with code Wondery15Exclusions apply. See site for details. It turned out that Marianne Fraser's relief at Alcala's conviction was to be short lived. Which breaks your heart for her. Her and all the other families.

[Elena]

They just couldn't take a breath.

[Ash]

This family and all the. And most of the families just got tormented. Tormented.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Torment. For years. It ultimately took, I think, three trials. In 1984, Rodney Alcala appealed his conviction to the state supreme court again, this time arguing, among other things, that the prosecute, the prosecution had biased the jury against him when they disclosed his past criminal act.

[Elena]

Well, babe, you're a predator. So that's for life.

[Ash]

Babe, that's the thing.

[Elena]

That's for life.

[Ash]

But unfortunately, the court justices agreed.

[Elena]

Wow.

[Ash]

And siding with the argument put forth by the defense, the justices overturned that original ruling and they. They granted Alcala a new trial.

[Elena]

That's dumb as it is.

[Ash]

It's. It drives you insane. So the second trial held in the spring of 1986. So six years later, this family had six years of, I don't want to say peace because they lost their loved one, but they had six years of knowing that this man was behind bars and was gonna die for what he did.

[Elena]

Yeah. Trying to rebuild the pieces of their life for six years.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

And then it gets opened right back.

[Ash]

And then, boom, it's all. It's starting all over again. It was essentially a rerun of the first trial, but this time the prosecution had to leave out his past criminal history. In the end, he was still found guilty. Of course he did it. Marianne Fraser told reporters. I just thank God. Maybe now my daughter can go to sleep for the first time in seven years. Maybe the rest of my family can go back to life.

[Elena]

Oh.

[Ash]

During the penalty phase a month later, Alcala pleaded with the jury to spare him the death penalty.

[Elena]

Oh, like your victims pleaded with you? Probably.

[Ash]

Yeah, exactly.

[Elena]

You piece of.

[Ash]

Saying that his record as a model prisoner was proof that, quote, I'm absolutely harmless. I'm not a threat. You're a child predator, dude.

[Elena]

Dig his corpse up so we can all kick him in the nuts, Literally.

[Ash]

You're not a threat. Yeah. You're not a threat when you're in prison because there's no children there.

[Elena]

Exactly. You.

[Ash]

But despite. Despite his pleas, the jury again recommended the death penalty for the murder of Robin Samsoe. Later, Marianne Fraser hugged the jury foreman and told him, thank you. My daughter deserves this, which she absolutely did. Yeah. In the years that followed, though, he continued to appeal his conviction.

[Elena]

He should not have been allowed to keep doing this.

[Ash]

No.

[Elena]

He just shouldn't have.

[Ash]

No, not at all. And in 2001, a federal court's appeals judge overturned the conviction in the second trial on the grounds that Alcala had not been given the opportunity to present contradictory evidence during his trial.

[Elena]

Get it together.

[Ash]

It's also like, okay, how many times does he get to make this the perfect.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Defense?

[Elena]

You just keep. You keep getting to try again.

[Ash]

Like, that's not how this should work.

[Elena]

I've had years and years to sit and stew over this, and I finally come up with the perfect plan to get out of it. Can you let me have another trial? And they're like, sure.

[Ash]

And it's like, it's.

[Elena]

Again, it's all he has to do.

[Ash]

Some people are sitting in prison, and that's all that you, like. I want to sit here and be like, they shouldn't be able to do that. No.

[Elena]

But it's true.

[Ash]

Some people are innocent, and they get proven guilty, and they. They get that time to finally sit there and think, like, oh, this is the one thing. So I can't even sit here and say it's a bad thing.

[Elena]

No. It's a perfectly imperfect system. It is. And this is a perfect example of it. Of our first instinct is to say, fuck this. He shouldn't be allowed to keep doing this. And then you can flip it right to the other side and go, but there's so many innocent people that get convicted that need that time, and they do come up with a way that finally they can tell people that they.

[Ash]

Are innocent and they deserve that time.

[Elena]

And they deserve that time. So 100%. It's perfectly imperfect. That's why it's such a case by case basis making. Even us making a blanket statement like they shouldn't be allowed to do this is not true.

[Ash]

It's just not.

[Elena]

He shouldn't have been able to do this.

[Ash]

But I feel like this one guy shouldn't have been able to do this. We are growing, and we are not making as many blanket statements.

[Elena]

You just gotta catch yourself when you make.

[Ash]

Catch yourself before you wreck yourself.

[Elena]

You have to give a little bit of an amendment when you make a blanket statement.

[Ash]

Exactly. I was about to, and then I was like, no, no, no, girl, don't do that.

[Elena]

Yeah, this. This specific man, he should not. Have. Had not have been allowed to do anything.

[Ash]

No, he should have. No, nothing.

[Elena]

Nothing.

[Ash]

But this decision meant that he could be tried a third time for the murder of Robin Samsoe. Her poor family.

[Elena]

We gotta find a better way.

[Ash]

We do. Deputy Attorney General Adrian Denault told reporters. We are incredibly disappointed. We think the court is wrong and that the justice has not. And that justice has not been served in this case because this family is just getting bombarded years and years after they think they finally have peace. Which the second time around, I'm sure that family, Robin Samsoe's family was like, should we even rest or is this gonna happen again? That we're gonna have to go through this all again? And then, boom, they had to go through it all again.

[Elena]

Oh, it's awful.

[Ash]

Well, the district attorney's office may have been frustrated by the court's decision by that time. Remember, it is now 2001.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah.

[Ash]

Major, major advances in science and technology had allowed.

[Elena]

They have some DNA.

[Ash]

That's the thing. Had allowed for the testing of DNA. And those blood samples that I open it up, babe. Now, they could pinpoint that with surprising accuracy. And in 2003, a recently collected sample of Alcala's saliva was matched to samples taken from Jill Barcombe, Georgia Wixted, Charlotte Lamb and Jill Parento's cases.

[Elena]

Oops. All that time sitting around didn't get you to realize that they can now get. They can now nail you to the wall even better than they could before, Even in fact, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

[Ash]

Now, that meant that in addition to retrying Alcala for Robin Samsoe's murder, the district attorney could also now prosecute him for those additional murders. I love that.

[Elena]

But he was like, oh, I'm innocent again. And then they were like, oops, now.

[Ash]

We can actually get you for more, you dumbass. In the words of Balin, you're done.

[Elena]

You're done.

[Ash]

This time around, the prosecution had more than enough evidence to convince the jury, including the DNA evidence, bite mark impressions taken from the victims. But unfortunately, the families present at trial would have to endure Rodney Alcala serving as his own fucking attorney this time.

[Elena]

Come on.

[Ash]

Also, some of the things that he was allowed to do while representing himself will boggle your goddamn mind.

[Elena]

Those are things that do need to look at.

[Ash]

Absolutely.

[Elena]

I think there's a lot of instances it becomes their own personal kink.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Elena]

And it's allowed to be, like, displayed. And the fact that they are doing it in front of the victim's families becomes part of their kink.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Elena]

And it shouldn't be allowed to be done.

[Ash]

Yeah. One gajillion percent.

[Elena]

There needs to be some safeguards on those for sure.

[Ash]

And unfortunately, again, it's like a case by case basis, because the judge gets to decide what happens in this case. I'm like.

[Elena]

You're like, what are you doing?

[Ash]

I'm like, tap, tap. Is this thing on? Hello? So on March 9, 2010, it took an Orange county jury less than an hour to find Rodney Alcala guilty on all five counts. After the verdict was read, one juror told a reporter, he's a monster. He's not a human being.

[Elena]

100% truth.

[Ash]

Hear, hear to that, my friend. Before the jury announced their sentencing recommendation, though, Alcala again asked that he be spared the death penalty and actually, at this point, wanted to be granted clemency. No, you good. You good, bro, he said. Let me put the death penalty in perspective for you. If you desire to join in the killing of a human being, you and the families of all the victims will have to wait at least 15 to 20 years while the case slowly churns through the applet process.

[Elena]

What are you really trying to be like? Let me explain it to. Are you trying to mansplain the death penalty to everybody?

[Ash]

It's like, yeah, we know people will wait 20 years to see you die.

[Elena]

We'll wait to see you die.

[Ash]

With bated breath.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

He also, at this point, was allowed to play Arlo Guthrie's Alice's Restaurant, specifically, the verse where he sings, I want to kill, I want to kill. I want to see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth eat dead, burnt bodies. I mean, kill, kill, kill, kill. Why?

[Elena]

Why are you letting him do that?

[Ash]

Why?

[Elena]

In front of victims families, too, at all? But in front of victims families, what. Who know what happened to their loved ones.

[Ash]

That's the thing. And he was saying if you're going to inflict the death penalty on me, you're the same as I am.

[Elena]

Wow.

[Ash]

So let me. Let me play this song to show you who you guys are. And apparently who I am.

[Elena]

Which you shouldn't be allowing a convicted killer and child predator to be talking to people that way. No, you just shouldn't. They shouldn't have the podium talking to people, period. Yeah, but to be sitting there being like, let me preach to you that you're the same. Nah, babe.

[Ash]

And also, are you not just proving the prosecution's case? You literally just called yourself a killer.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

You're saying you're no better than I am.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So you're saying you're a killer.

[Elena]

So you're. So you're saying.

[Ash]

Hello, you're saying it's true. Hello. Yeah, he was just in absolute terror to the very last second. But luckily, the jury wasted no time recommending to the judge that. Hey. They still felt like he should be sentenced to death.

[Elena]

Death.

[Ash]

And during a separate.

[Elena]

Please don't ask us again.

[Ash]

Yeah, like we're done here. During a separate penalty phase, Tally Shapiro was actually able to speak about her harrowing experience.

[Elena]

Holy.

[Ash]

As an 8 year old girl attacked by this monster. Later, she told 48 Hours. I'm one of Rodney Alcala's first and one of his only living victims. It should have stopped with me. Why in the world are there so many other victims when it was a known fact what he did to me?

[Elena]

Yeah. Yes, Tommy.

[Ash]

The fact that she was able to speak on this makes me so happy that she. Her voice was heard. But it's so true. Why the fuck. When they knew what he did to her at 8 years old in the morning in her own apartment complex?

[Elena]

Oh, it's shameful. Why shameful?

[Ash]

Why was anybody else allowed to ever come across this man's path?

[Elena]

Yeah. The only icon in that scenario is Donald Hayes.

[Ash]

Yes.

[Elena]

He was the only one that made a move to stop anything from happening and they just washed it aside.

[Ash]

And without him, oh, my God, it.

[Elena]

Could have even been worse. Could have been worse.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Elena]

She could be dead.

[Ash]

She could be dead.

[Elena]

She would.

[Ash]

She would have been absolutely.

[Elena]

She would be dead without me.

[Ash]

And he would have stayed in California and done the same thing more boldly. So Rodney Alcala was finally being held accountable for his horrific crimes committed decades earlier. And it turned out that it wasn't just prosecutors in California who wanted justice for victims. In January 2011, a grand jury in Manhattan indicted Alcala for the 1971 murder of Cornelia Michael Crilley.

[Elena]

Hell, yeah.

[Ash]

The 1977 murder of Ellen Hover. Remember Cornelia? Michael Crilly. She was moving and he broke into her.

[Elena]

Oh, yeah.

[Ash]

Seems that maybe he got into her apartment under the guise of helping her.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And then. Oh, my God. Ellen's cousin Sheila said for the longest time it was. For it was a foregone conclusion that he would never be charged for her murder. This is a terrific surprise. Yeah.

[Elena]

You want to see him go down for it?

[Ash]

Absolutely. On December 14, 2012, he appeared in a New York courtroom where he pleaded guilty to both murders. Though he offered no details about either crime. He just knew that they had the DNA.

[Elena]

He's a little. He knows.

[Ash]

At the time, investigators made public a large number of the photos discovered in Alcala's storage unit in Seattle, hoping that they'd be able to identify women in the photos.

[Elena]

Yeah, I remember this. It was like a big deal.

[Ash]

Yeah. In response, many women came forward to identify themselves and told police, quote, a photographer named John Berger had taken their picture in New York in the 1970s.

[Elena]

I can't fathom being one of those women.

[Ash]

Just to know you got away and you would spend so much time, like, if not the rest of your life, just thinking, what was it?

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

What was it that. Why I got. Why did I get away? Oh, why. Why did he take a picture of me and then move on to the next girl and do what he did to her?

[Elena]

Holy.

[Ash]

Like that would plague you, I think.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Now, while this helped to identify many of the women in the pictures, a significant number of these women unfortunately remain.

[Elena]

Unidentified, which makes me nervous.

[Ash]

Of course it does.

[Elena]

Because I'm like, where are these women?

[Ash]

Yeah, it's. I think, unfortunately, we'll never know where some of these women are, but hopefully, hopefully we will. Hopefully we will. Four years later, in 2016, a prosecutor in Wyoming had charged Alcala with the murder of 28 year old Christine Thornton, who disappeared in 1978, and her body was discovered in 1982. She was six months pregnant at the time of her disappearance. At the time, he was in very poor health. Who gives a. Yeah. But the prosecutor declined to extradite him to face charges.

[Elena]

No. Send that motherfucker where he needs to go. I don't give a shit if he's.

[Ash]

Sick because she lost her life. Yeah, he's still here. Music and her baby's life. Exactly. Yeah. So I don't give a. How sick he is.

[Elena]

What, is he gonna be uncomfortable?

[Ash]

I don't give a. Extradite him.

[Elena]

I hope he is uncomfortable.

[Ash]

Yeah. On July 10, 2021, he died of natural causes at a hospital in Kings County, California. He got to live until he was 77.

[Elena]

77.

[Ash]

He got to live a whole life.

[Elena]

That upsets me.

[Ash]

Upon hearing of Alcala's death, though, Tali Shapiro, who was then 61 years old, told a reporter, the planet is a better place without him. That's for sure.

[Elena]

Yes.

[Ash]

Now, at the time of his death, though, he was still suspected of murder by investigators in Los Angeles, Seattle, Arizona, New Hampshire, and Marin County, California.

[Elena]

Oh, I'm sure there will be more things that come out and so many.

[Ash]

More cases I think will be connected to him because he left DNA at so many of these cases.

[Elena]

Yeah, he did.

[Ash]

So there's definitely hope that he. That some people will finally have answers to their loved ones murders. But what a fucking monster. He is one of the worst people that we've ever talked about, truly. We talk about horrible, horrible, horrible people, and he is up there with the worst of them.

[Elena]

I had no idea. I knew he was really bad. I had no idea how bad.

[Ash]

I had absolutely no idea.

[Elena]

Going bad.

[Ash]

Going into the details, reading some of them. Oh, my God.

[Elena]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Oh, my God.

[Elena]

Like, holy shit.

[Ash]

Yeah. So I think maybe for our next case, we'll do something a little fluffy, a little light, and if you need a, you know, palette cleanser after this, which I'm sure you do, go listen to the re watcher.

[Elena]

Yeah. We're talking about Buffy. In case you haven't listened to it. Ash hasn't seen the whole Buffy series. She's watching it for the first time. I've seen it a million times. And we have Mikey on there with us, who has also seen it a million times, of Buffy watching this. And we're going episode by episode. I think we're in the. We're in the sixth season right now, like halfway through.

[Ash]

About halfway.

[Elena]

So. And it's a lot of fun. We end up laughing until we cry every single episode. So it's well worth it. A very good palette cleanser if you need it.

[Ash]

And if you don't watch Buffy or you're not into that, we also have. Have Scream with Caleb where we cover horror movies. Or you can listen to both and be into all of it.

[Elena]

Scream is also a place where we end up laughing so hard we cry every single episode.

[Ash]

Somebody said that they ran out of morbid episodes and went to scream and they were like, I did not think it was going to be this funny. Holy. You guys.

[Elena]

We literally cry laughing.

[Ash]

Like, there have been times where I've had to run out of the room because I'm going to, like, pee my pants, literally.

[Elena]

Yeah. So definitely, if you need a little, A little lighter stuff, those are, those are the way to go.

[Ash]

Actually a perfect palette cleanser for you guys. Our next episode, we're going to be talking to the two directors of this new docu series on Netflix. I think it dropped December 11th. It's kings of Tupelo. You need to dedicate at least four hours of your life to watching this. It is the zaniest docu series you will ever see. And we're so stoked to talk to them.

[Elena]

That was wild. And I can't wait.

[Ash]

We're gonna have so much fun, so look out for that. Definitely try to check out the doc before the episode drops because I, you know, I'm sure there's going to be some spoilers, so. Yeah. And like we were saying at the top of the show, we want to cover some more Survivor cases, some more strange history coming up.

[Elena]

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So we'll, we'll, we'll vary it up.

[Ash]

Keep your eyes out.

[Elena]

Something for everybody here.

[Ash]

Yeah, we. Gotcha. Whatever.

[Elena]

Gotcha.

[Ash]

Whatever your fancy is, we can help you.

[Elena]

We're here.

[Ash]

Here we are. I don't know. I gotta go. So with that being said, we hope.

[Elena]

You keep listening and we hope you.

[Ash]

Keep it weird, but definitely not as weird as Rodney Alcala because, wow, I need to go scrub my brain with a toilet brush.

[Elena]

Be cool to each other.

[Ash]

A toilet brush with bleach on it. Sa if you like morbid. You can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.

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