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Ash
Hey weirdos, it's Ash here. Ready to share a little secret. Have you heard of Wondery Plus? With ad free episodes and one week early access, it's like having an all access pass to our lighthearted nightmare. So come join us on the dark side and try Wondery Today. You can join Wondery plus in the Wondery app or in Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
Alaina
You're listening to a Morbid Network podcast.
Candice DeLong
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I like how the narrator went between the two characters voices.
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Ash
Audible.Com morbid did you know?
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Alaina
Hey, weirdos. I'm Alaina.
Ash
I'm Ash.
Alaina
And this is Morbid.
Ash
This is Barbie Do. Hi, everybody. Hello. What's up?
Alaina
Not a lot.
Ash
No. No. Oh, I haven't checked on my Finch today. Oh. Oh, my God.
Alaina
I'm like, 30 days into my Finch, so we're really rocking and rolling.
Ash
Yeah, I'm like, 20. I think today's day 28. I'm. I'm gonna have to have you take the mic for me.
Alaina
Yeah, let's start today. Well, my finch is in Sydney, Australia, so.
Ash
Mine is in Taipai.
Alaina
Hey, guys, in Australia, if you see my finch, Gatsby walking around there, tell them I said hi.
Ash
Well, big ang. My finch said, I can't decide. Is it better to be super strong or super fast? Ooh, I think super fast. I mean, whatever you feel super fast. She says, I wish I was fast. That would mean the yellow cat that chases me would never be able to keep up with me. And she got 6.1 points for security.
Alaina
A.
Ash
She's a queen bee. This isn't sponsored. I genuinely needed to check in on my Finch life.
Alaina
I'm saying she's all set. Yeah, you can't just.
Ash
Siri. I'm not talking.
Alaina
Siri's like, I'm sorry.
Ash
She's like, I can't check in on your Finch. You have to. And I'm like, well, I did, guys.
Alaina
I hope you. I mean, I talked about this, like, weeks ago. The Finch app.
Ash
Yeah.
Alaina
I want to know if you guys did it.
Ash
Did you do it?
Alaina
Did you do it?
Ash
What's your. Finches.
Alaina
Just yell it really loud and I'll listen.
Ash
Oh, they did?
Alaina
Okay. Yeah, a lot of you did. I heard ya.
Ash
Yeah, somebody. Oh, Larry. We have a Larry.
Alaina
Larry. Thank you for trying.
Ash
Yeah. No, no. They named their finch Larry.
Alaina
I don't know. Oh, I thought it was Larry who tried it. No, I'm sure we have a Larry who may have tried it as well.
Ash
Maybe.
Alaina
I don't know.
Ash
I believe you. I'm just.
Alaina
We just finished watching season six. Yeah.
Ash
Final episode of Buffy. If you listen to the rewatcher, you know how we feel about season six.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
I left the room during the season.
Alaina
Six finale, so we're feeling type of way right now.
Ash
I faked a walkout.
Alaina
Yeah, it's true.
Ash
If you want to.
Alaina
She did like a. She did a Housewives style walkout. I did a reunion.
Ash
I did. I really did. But I came back and that's all that counts. If you want to hear our extra thoughts on all of Buffy. Cuz the beginning seasons of Buffy are fantastic. And we've had so much fun talking about it. And we've even had fun talking about this season. If you listen to the Re watcher, you should. We're about to end season six and go into season seven. So I have a whole new season adventure awaiting me.
Alaina
Join us.
Ash
All right. I have a bummer of a case today. We were talking, I think the last time we got together, maybe we were talking about David Carpenter.
Alaina
David Carpenter. The Trailside Killer.
Ash
The Trailside Killer. And that was just like a very. It was riddled with misjustice. Injustice, if you will.
Alaina
Misjustice.
Ash
I like that. Ms. Justice Mischief Dragon was in here, but she left.
Alaina
Yeah, she left halfway through that case.
Ash
She did, yeah. This is another case where justice is interesting.
Alaina
Oh, okay. Okay.
Ash
All right. We're going to be talking about the preppy killer, Robert Chambers, who killed Jennifer Don Levin, and we're going to talk about that entire case. So Jennifer Don Levin was born May 21, 1968, in Port Washington, New York. Her parents were Stephen and Ellen Levin, a realtor and a homemaker. Jennifer and her older sister Danielle were raised on Long Island's North Shore, Pretty much a haven for wealthier families who wanted, like, quiet home life kind of vibe, but still have access to the city.
Alaina
That makes sense.
Ash
I love Long Island. Even though she came from a wealthy family and she really didn't want for a lot, Jennifer insisted on doing things for herself when she wanted anything. Like if she wanted a new Walkman or new clothes, anything like that. She didn't go to like, oh, let me go ask my parents. She figured out how she could get it without their help.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
And she.
Alaina
So she's like, she's an independent woman.
Ash
She is, yeah.
Alaina
She's getting her shit done.
Ash
She did. And like at an early age, too.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
Her stepmother Arlene Levin said her first thought was, how can I make the money to get it, not buy it for me? Which I love.
Alaina
I love that. Yeah.
Ash
It's fantastic.
Alaina
That's honestly such a rare, like, viewpoint for such a young person, you know, to be like, well, I'll figure out how to get it myself. Usually it's just like, well, mom and dad won't do it.
Ash
That wasn't my viewpoint point. But in 1973, when Jennifer was five years old, her parents did end up divorcing Stephen. Her father moved to an apartment in Manhattan. And Ellen stayed on Long island with Danielle and Jennifer. Despite the separation, Jennifer and her sister managed to remain close to both their parents. And they even developed a good relationship with a few years later with Steven's new wife, Arlene. Ellen, Jennifer's mom, said about Jennifer, she just made people smile by just walking into a room.
Alaina
Oh.
Ash
Which is like you could feel that.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
And her charm and affection wasn't just limited to friends, just not limited only to family. Once, just before she was scheduled to take her driving test, she talked a Manhattan cab driver into teaching her how to parallel park. Iconic.
Alaina
What a savvy, savvy person. That is wild.
Ash
And like picture a Manhattan cab driver.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
They don't have time for your.
Alaina
No, they're always like on to the next.
Ash
Somehow she had the charm to be like, listen, I gotta, I got a test coming up and I gotta.
Alaina
Can you help me out here?
Ash
Yeah, help me, man.
Alaina
I love that.
Ash
So after finishing junior high on Long island, she moved in with her father and her stepmother in Manhattan, mostly so that she could attend the Baldwin School, which was a private high school on New York's Upper west side. According to Arlene Levin, Jennifer's desire to attend private school was as much a matter of fear as it was anything else. She actually believed all urban public schools were dangerous places. She was very afraid to go to public school.
Alaina
Oh, okay.
Ash
Which I don't. Maybe at the time it was like a little bit rough. I'm not positive.
Alaina
Yeah. I don't know how like in that area, how they are now.
Ash
Yeah. I'm not sure.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
But anyway, she thrived at Baldwin School and quickly developed her own really independent personality. She wasn't really your typical teenager. Her friends and classmates mostly kind of gravitated toward pop music and television. But Jennifer herself preferred adult contemporary music. And she said that she'd rather work out than watch tv. And she also became a vegetarian at a pretty young age just for the health benefits.
Alaina
Damn, she sounds cool as hell.
Ash
She does sound cool. I want to be her friend.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
Now. Also, unlike her peers who relied mostly on their parents for money. As soon as she was able to, Jennifer got a part time job as a hostess at Fluties, a bar in lower Manhattan. I feel like I don't know if I've been there, but I've definitely heard familiar. Yeah, right.
Alaina
It really does.
Ash
I don't know if it's like from something, but her manager said never once did I see her come to work with anything but a smile. More. On her job at Fluties later. There's like another anecdote in my tail here. But when it came to romance and relationships, Jennifer, who had been voted best looking in her senior class.
Alaina
Oh, Jennifer.
Ash
Snap, snap. She was pretty non committal. You're in high school, you don't need to be committal.
Alaina
Exactly.
Ash
So when she started dating in her junior year, she spent a lot of time with Brock Pernice, a student at York Prep, which is an elite prep school. Pretty similar. Similar to Baldwin.
Alaina
That sounds fancy as hell.
Ash
Pretty much all of them are fancy as hell.
Alaina
Anything prep sounds like. Whoa.
Ash
I always think that.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
Now, Brock said Jennifer was a really cute girl. Fun, happy, go lucky. She loved the club scene and she was very innocent. I took her to a Billy Idol concert on our first date.
Alaina
Oh my God.
Ash
Yeah, that's what a sick ass first date. And then he said, but it wasn't until weeks later that I first kissed her at the Peppermint Lounge. And then I couldn't leave her. Oh, it sounds like he really, really liked her a lot. It's, it gives me butterflies.
Alaina
Wow.
Ash
Yeah, it's, it's very like young love.
Alaina
Brock surprised me because to be honest, the name Brock, like it's fair, gives me pause sometimes.
Ash
We're conditioned.
Alaina
I don't.
Ash
From a certain time, I was gonna.
Alaina
Say I've been conditioned, but actually, two.
Ash
Television shows where my Reba fans at.
Alaina
Yeah. So it's like. I, I, I love that. I love that about Brock.
Ash
I do too. Now, around that same time, Jennifer and her friends all managed to get fake IDs.
Alaina
Whoa.
Ash
You gotta. You are a New York Upper East Sider. Don't do that. I'm not telling you to, but I'm just saying retroactively, you had to.
Alaina
Retroactively, yeah, of course.
Ash
So they became regulars at Dorian's. Red Hand, great name for her.
Alaina
Wow. I love that.
Ash
Yeah. It was a Manhattan bar popular with college students.
Alaina
Damn.
Ash
Now, even though she was dating Brock Pernice at the time, Jennifer also started casually dating a couple of the guys that she met at Dorian's. Because remember, you can do whatever the fuck you want to do.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
And she's casually dating. She's in high school.
Alaina
Yeah, it's. It's high school.
Ash
It's high school. It doesn't matter at all. But that included a short period where she dated Robert Chambers, a guy who had attended York Prep with Brock himself.
Alaina
Whoa.
Ash
Now, I also feel like guys date multiple women all the time, and it's hard.
Alaina
You don't even need to feel like that, that's. That's reality. That's just a fact.
Ash
And it's never a part of the story. No, but as soon as a girl dates multiple guys, it becomes part of the.
Alaina
It becomes part of her personality, part of her character, part of every facet DNA that's goes on her, you know, resume.
Ash
Like it's normal to date around and find out what you like and who you want to hang out with. And like, you're. You're not dating to marry in high school. And if. I mean, maybe you get so lucky that you meet that person that you're going to marry.
Alaina
But. Yeah, I wish I had dated, like, more different people in high school.
Ash
I wish I had dated less people.
Alaina
Than the same person that I dated for all of high school.
Ash
Yeah, you heard.
Alaina
Yeah, but with purd, you know? Yeah.
Ash
But I support this. And it. I'm harping on it because it becomes a major aspect of this case and it pisses me off. Yeah, she gets. She gets very much railroaded for it. Yeah. So let's talk about Robert a little bit. Robert Chambers.
Alaina
Sure.
Ash
Robert Emmett Chambers Jr. Was born September 25, 1966, in Queens, New York. He was the only child born to Phyllis and Robert Chambers Senior, a nurse and an employee for mca. For the first few years of his life, the family lived in the working class neighborhood of Jackson Heights, and then they actually moved to a more upscale neighborhood in the Upper east side. Oh, I just can't, like, hear the Upper east side without thinking of Gossip Girl.
Alaina
I think of Cruel Intentions. Oh, I'm the Marcia fucking Brady of the Upper east side. And sometimes I want to kill myself. That's a direct quote, not me movie.
Ash
Yeah, I love that movie. I'm gonna go watch that later.
Alaina
She's a icon in that movie.
Ash
She's so good in that movie. So honestly, so scary. Everyone is so good in that movie.
Alaina
Oh, everyone's a plus in that. That movie is a plus. The fact that they tried to remake it. Don't get me started.
Ash
I think they're actively remaking it into a TV show right now.
Alaina
Yeah, stop. Because you can't. You can't remake that. You can't bottle.
Ash
Stop.
Alaina
You can't bottle that time.
Ash
No, you can't.
Alaina
In that kind of cast. You cannot bottle that so good.
Ash
Like, you just can't. And just the.
Alaina
It's got Tara Reid in it. You can't. What are you doing? Trying to make that again?
Ash
I always forget that terror.
Alaina
She starts the whole damn thing.
Ash
She sure does.
Alaina
Hell yeah.
Ash
Oh, My God. Her crying scenes are always the best.
Alaina
That movie. That movie is in my DNA.
Ash
It's a retweet. Me too. I cry every time.
Alaina
Oh, my God. When she's going up the escalator.
Ash
Yeah. Oh, and the end when she drives across the bridge.
Alaina
Black and egg white.
Ash
Oh, my God. We've gone on too long. So the Upper east side, period.
Alaina
Yeah, sorry. That's what makes us think of that.
Ash
By a lot of accounts, Robert's parents were, in a lot of ways, pretty hands off. And they were kind of emotionally unavailable. Like, they struggled to provide the best education for him. That was a. That was a drive that they had. But they didn't really support him, like, emotionally and, like, they didn't support his social development.
Alaina
They just wanted the best education. But they weren't thinking of, like, making.
Ash
Him a well rounded individual. Exactly. They were very focused on education, which is great. Great.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
But there's more aspects of a child's upbringing.
Alaina
There's definitely more to life.
Ash
Yeah, exactly.
Alaina
More to a human.
Ash
Yeah. Now, he would be portrayed by the press, interestingly, later in his later years, but Robert Chambers background was a lot more modest, actually, than it appeared throughout a lot of his life. He attended elite prep schools, but his mom worked nights as a nurse in order to pay for his tuition.
Alaina
Oh, wow.
Ash
And her income rarely covered the entire tuition. So the fees he were covered by, like, a scholarship. He was there on scholarship and by his mom's hard work.
Alaina
His mom sounds like a badass in that retro in that respect.
Ash
She does. Definitely.
Alaina
Really Working her ass off for a kid.
Ash
She was. Yeah. And his status as one of the least wealthy kids in school usually made him feel kind of inferior. Socially isolated. Think Dan Humphries.
Alaina
I was just gonna say this sounds very, like, written by a showrunner.
Ash
It does. You know, it's. It's very. That.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
But the thing was, even though he felt that way, like, internally, outwardly, he seemed pretty popular. He had a lot of friends. His classmates liked him. So this was very much an internal struggle that he was going through.
Alaina
Okay.
Ash
But outside of school, he was an altar boy at the family's church. He was a member of the Children of the American Revolution, which is always interesting. It always makes me think of Gilmore Girls.
Alaina
It always makes me think of that.
Ash
And he was an officer in something I've never heard of before, but gives very American Revolutiony vibes. And he was an officer in the Knickerbocker Grays, which is a drill team for children of wealthy New York Families.
Alaina
That doesn't even sound real.
Ash
I know.
Alaina
That sounds like something somebody made up.
Ash
It does.
Alaina
To make me feel stupid. Maybe they'd be like, this is a real thing.
Ash
Maybe they did.
Alaina
Wow.
Ash
Well, Phyllis, his mom, served as the board president of the Grays at the time.
Alaina
Wow.
Ash
And she told a reporter, it's a very tough world out there. A boy who receives this training is less likely to fall by the wayside later on. The Grays teaches what society should be about. The niceties of life.
Alaina
Wow.
Ash
It's very, like, pinkies up.
Alaina
Yeah. See, I'm. I'm psyched about my kids knowing karate.
Ash
There you go.
Alaina
And how to, you know, beat the shit out of someone in the throat. There you go. But, like, I guess, yeah, different jokes for different folks, different vibes for what's important, I guess.
Ash
I think you should go be the president of the Knickerbocker Grays.
Alaina
Personally, it sounds wild. I'm looking it up right now because I just never heard of this.
Ash
I had never heard of it before either.
Alaina
I mean, the good News is their 142nd season is starting. A lot of seasons.
Ash
I didn't realize they had seasons. Yeah, apparently, it's like a team.
Alaina
This is very interesting.
Ash
It is. Well, like I said, Robert might have felt like an outsider, but the messages he got from his peers pretty much contradicted his self image entirely. Like I was just saying.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
He was six'four he weighed 220 pounds. He's sturdy guy. He was very popular with the girls, and they were all drawn to his, quote, shy and secretive charm. Oh, yeah.
Alaina
Secretive charm.
Ash
I don't know. It was a different time. So the combination of his sense of inferiority and the overwhelmingly positive encouragement that he got from his classmates resulted in him becoming the kind of guy with a chip on his shoulder.
Alaina
Ah.
Ash
Like 100%. And a very huge sense of entitlement also.
Alaina
Oh, I could. Yeah, I could. I could feel that vibe starting to come.
Ash
He's giving, like, tortured poet.
Alaina
Oh, yeah.
Ash
Without writing poetry.
Alaina
See? And let me just, like, quick little thing. Secretive charm is never charming unless his secret is he's like a vampire. Like, that's the only.
Ash
And even then, that's a little messy.
Alaina
That's the only. Like, a real vampire.
Ash
Like, that's legit, baby. Legit.
Alaina
Yeah. You never want secrets. It's not a good. Good thing to go after.
Ash
Yeah, no, no. See, secretive charm isn't really, like, a descriptor. I've heard before.
Alaina
Secret. Secrets are no fun.
Ash
Secret secrets hurt someone. But he started to deal with his insecurities by engaging in some casual drug use. Casual. Casual. And other illegal activities like petty theft and vandalism.
Alaina
Very casual.
Ash
You have to deal with your secret charm in a certain way. Soon his grades began to slip. He lost his scholarship, which is real shitty because his mom worked her ass.
Alaina
Off, I was gonna say.
Ash
And he was also kicked out of school. Oh, yeah.
Alaina
Damn. Yeah, you buried that lead.
Ash
So your secretive charm didn't get you anywhere, bud. This increasingly destructive behavior even took a toll on his relationship with his oldest friends. His closest friend at the time, John Tolenko, said, I just realized it was a dead end. One night, a group of us were hanging out at this bar on East 85th Street. I remember thinking how pathetic the conversation was. We were just joking around in this cynical matter manner that we have. But I had stopped drinking a few weeks before, and I couldn't relate to it at all. I stood up and told them to go to hell and walked out.
Alaina
Whoa.
Ash
This whole thing is like a TV show slash movie.
Alaina
It is. It's very dramatic.
Ash
Yeah. Looking back, John Delingo said that, you know, he wished he'd been more honest with Robert and tried to help him make some kind of positive change before it was too late. But hindsight's 20 20.
Alaina
Yeah. And that's not totally up to everybody else.
Ash
No. And also, he's a teenager, so he doesn't have all the resources that he needs to make Robert better, you know?
Alaina
Exactly.
Ash
But thankfully, Robert was able to enroll at York Prep, a new school. But it was with the understanding that he would get his life together, work hard to graduate, and get into a good college. It's unknown whether he maintained good grades during his senior year at York, but what is clear is that his drug use unfortunately did not stop. Actually, if anything, it got worse. Throughout that year, he got in trouble for alcohol abuse. He developed a very serious cocaine habit. And that cocaine habit affected almost every part of his life, of course, as it does. But somehow, even with all that going on, he did manage to get accepted to Boston University. Yeah. In large part, according to one former friend, because of his high test scores.
Alaina
That's a good school, man.
Ash
That's a great school. It's very impressive.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
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Candice DeLong
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Ash
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Do that because they have lightweight European.
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Ash
So after his graduation from York in 1985, so he did graduate, he moved to Boston.
Alaina
Boston, I was gonna say yeah.
Ash
And he started the year in Boston University's Basic Studies program, which basically it Was established by the school to help students who struggled social or emotionally during high school.
Alaina
Oh.
Ash
Which is really cool.
Alaina
I didn't even know that was the thing.
Ash
Yeah. So the new city and the supportive program work. This big chance for Robert to start over and establish some new, more responsible habits.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
Get his life back on track.
Alaina
For sure.
Ash
And that's a big chance. You get into Boston University and you get this, like, kind of like. I don't want to say hand holding, but. But for lack of a better term. And you, like, you got to do the most with that. You gotta do the most with that. Unfortunately, he did not.
Alaina
Oh.
Ash
He fell back on old habits. And according to his friends, he, quote, used the school as an excuse to party and hang out.
Alaina
Oh, what? That's such. And it's like, why bother?
Ash
I'm sure that program was beneficial for so many other people.
Alaina
That's the thing. Who didn't get to use it because you took their spot.
Ash
Yeah, like. And. Exactly. But like, that pisses me off.
Alaina
Yeah. Somebody who would have actually used it.
Ash
Yeah. Like some. Maybe somebody who didn't get into it. Or even there was people there that probably like. Yeah, exactly. So after just one semester at Boston University, he was kicked out of the program for academic reasons and just returned back to his parents in New York, where it seemed like. Yeah, it seemed like he picked up right where he left off there. His father was away on business trips a lot, and his mom was still working nights at the hospital. So he spent a lot of his nights at the bars, at the clubs in Manhattan, just acting basically like he was still in high school with no responsibilities whatsoever.
Alaina
Awesome. Yeah.
Ash
Fantastic. Now, Jennifer, on the contrary, by the time she had reached her senior year up Baldwin, she started having difficulties with her parents. According to friends, Jennifer had moved in with her father and her stepmother not only to attend Baldwin, like I was saying, but also for the added discipline that she felt that environment would offer.
Alaina
Okay.
Ash
One journalist wrote, though she was close to her mother, she told friends that her mother was more of a friend than a parent, which. That can be difficult. And that relationship might not have provided the structure that she was looking for. But it seems like life with her father and her stepmother in Manhattan also left a lot to be desired in a different way. Friends remembered that she constantly resented her stepmother, and that often led to fights with her father or with her father and stepmother.
Alaina
Oh, man.
Ash
Yeah. One of her close friends said, she used to call me in tears and come sleep over at my house because of fights with her dad. They were just about the usual things. Coming home late, cleaning her room, getting her priorities straight. But she never really felt comfortable living there, which is sad. It's also, I think, a very common problem amongst teenagers.
Alaina
Well, I was gonna say it's also very teenager. Yeah, like angsty teenager.
Ash
Yeah. And also, I think, like, having divorced parents, like, you leave one house because it's not super desirable and you think the other house is going to be this great place where nowhere's perfect. Yeah, nowhere's perfect. Exactly.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
But like Robert Chambers, Jennifer did also turn to substance use and partying as a kind of escape from the pressures that she felt at home. It doesn't seem like she developed the same addiction problems that Robert was going through. But her desire to party oftentimes outweighed her responsibilities like school and work, which.
Alaina
Again, very typical of a lot of teenagers.
Ash
Yeah, this is exactly who I was, like, 100%. And obviously the fact that she's prioritizing, partying over school, over her responsibilities at work and home, it's resulting in bad grades and probably some more tension at home.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
According to Daniel Kimball, the principal at Baldwin, Jennifer was a, quote, good, average student. She probably wasn't expecting to get into Harvard or Yale, but she was studious and responsible enough to get accepted to some very reasonable schools or, excuse me, respectable schools. Now, for her friends, who knew her best, the change in her personality started right around the summer of 1985. At that time, she was working actually at a boutique in the Hamptons. She wasn't actually working at Fluties yet. And she was spending more and more time with some new friends that she'd met in the club scene.
Alaina
Okay.
Ash
You can imagine probably not the best influences. Brock, her first boyfriend there, said. Said. I remember when I met her, she was a little Miss Innocent. I saw her change grow up real quick in the city. Yeah, he said the unchained. The. The change was unwelcome and pretty disappointing.
Alaina
Oh, man.
Ash
He said, I tried to do other things with her, like, other than go to the club.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
He said, we went to the theater, formals, restaurants, but she always had to go by Dorian's. That's where our friends were.
Alaina
Oh, man.
Ash
Yeah. So remember, these are like very, very wealthy kids with literally no adult supervision whatsoever. Oh, yeah. So they were living like adults. Yeah, but they didn't have the emotional maturity that usually comes with age, which is very like.
Alaina
I'm not trying to be, like, silly here when I say it's very Gossip Girl esque, like, you know, like the Whole, like kids living very adult lives, having very adult drama. Yeah, but in like a kid's setting.
Ash
And it comes with adult problems and, you know. Yeah, exactly. A close friend said, we act like we were adults. Most of us have credit cards, we all drink, we all fool around, have flings, like, truly very gossip.
Alaina
Yeah. Straight up, like Sex and the City style. Like.
Ash
Yeah, but these are kids.
Alaina
But kids.
Ash
So that summer, while she was still seeing Brock, Jennifer again casually dated a few different guys, like I said, including Robert Chambers, who was also working on the Hamptons that summer. And their social circles kind of overlapped with each other's. Nothing really came of the brief relationship with Robert Chambers, actually. But for Brock, it was the beginning of the end. That winter, he and Jennifer broke up for the first of what would be short, several short breakups before finally ending things for good a few months later. And Jennifer wasn't the only one struggling to find her place. In 1985, after he got kicked out of Boston University, Robert Chambers life was spiraling out of control. It was a very slow spiral at first, I think when he left school. But then things really started gearing. Gearing up. Oh, he managed to find work at like some low paying jobs. He actually even took a few college courses at Hunter College. But his drug use was overtaking everything. It was becoming his biggest priority. Yeah, he wasn't really hurting for money. But that fall he fell in with a group of young guys from wealthy families who just broke into people's houses around the city for fun.
Alaina
Oh, cool.
Ash
Yeah. You know, as. As groups of young men do, just.
Alaina
You know, just kids being boys being.
Ash
Boys, guys being dudes. Yeah.
Alaina
Guys being bros. Yeah, that's casual. Yeah, that's fine.
Ash
They stole jewelry, other expensive items like that, just for fun.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
An acquaintance of his, of Rob.
Alaina
Like the Bling Ring.
Ash
Yeah, I know, honestly. Yeah, it really does. An acquaintance of his said, we went out to dinner in America once and he pulled out a credit card that wasn't his and joking, jokingly said, should I use this tonight?
Alaina
What the.
Ash
No, you douchebag. What the.
Alaina
But this is so entitled, like, spoiled rich kid behavior.
Ash
It's very cliche.
Alaina
Yeah. Like this part of it, like that's. It's very like what you think spoiled rich kids in Manhattan are gonna be. You know, it's got like, not necessarily what they are, but like, this is very, what, atypical. It's very typical of what you would think.
Ash
Yeah, it's very stereotypical. Yeah, it's very like clueless bling Ring Gossip Girl. Like, it's got all of those vibes. Even remember the Sex and the City, like, prequel that they did? I don't think you watched it. Yeah, it was a banger. I think it only got, like, one or two seasons. I loved it.
Alaina
I'm a purist.
Ash
I get it.
Alaina
No sequel, no reboot.
Ash
No, I get it. The. The prequel was pretty good, though, and it reminds me.
Alaina
Yes.
Ash
But anyway, as the year went on, so did Robert's excessive drug use and now theft. Before long, he moved on from stealing from strangers to just straight away up stealing from people he knew, like his friends. On nights when people. When Robert had been at their homes, his friends and acquaintances would notice that money had gone missing.
Alaina
Wow. Which is like, if he's willing to do it to people he doesn't know, of course he's going to start doing it. Like, you can't trust that.
Ash
But that's such a big escalation.
Alaina
It is.
Ash
Like, stealing in general is so up, and stealing from strangers is up. Stealing from your friends is up on a whole other level.
Alaina
Of course, it is wild.
Ash
But at popular hangouts like Dorian's Red Hand, even the customers frequently complained to management that money and credit cards were going missing from their pocketbooks, their coats. And a lot of times, people knew that it was Robert, but they just didn't want to confront him because, you know, he's this, like, wealthy kid. He comes from a good, wealthy family, so there was rarely any consequences, but everybody knew what he was doing.
Alaina
Yeah. And he was just allowed to get away with it.
Ash
Yeah. Now, that spring, he went to Palm beach to visit some friends, and while he was gone, his mother was cleaning up his bedroom, and she found evidence of his ongoing drug use. And she called. This is actually really smart. On her behalf. She called him, and she said he needed to come home immediately because somebody was sick.
Alaina
Whoa.
Ash
But when he turned home, it turned out they were having an intervention for him, like, he was the one who was sick. And a few days later, he did agree to go to a drug rehab facility. He went to Hazelden foundation in Minnesota, and he spent the next month there detoxing and learning the skills that he would need to, you know, stay clean once he got back home. But I think that's so smart, the way she did that.
Alaina
Oh, yeah, of course it is.
Ash
Made sure he got home.
Alaina
And she's not lying.
Ash
Yeah. Someone.
Alaina
Because she's saying someone's sick.
Ash
Yeah. You know, so he went to rehab. He cleaned up. He spent a month there. He came Back to New York from Minnesota in late May of 1986 and enthusically announced that he had kicked his cocaine habit for good and he was ready to start fresh.
Alaina
Wow. I mean, sounds good.
Ash
Yeah, it would have been exciting, but here we are talking about it.
Alaina
But here we are. He's on morbid, so it's not good.
Ash
He actually even found work as a painter. He was a caretaker for his neighbor at this time. But a lot of people around him who are closer to him were questioning how he was actually doing. A close friend said, in a way, he was too positive. Most people, when they got out of rehab are realistic, but Rob always wanted to think that he could handle anything. And it soon started to become obvious to those again, close to him, around him more frequently, that he was still struggling. And he started drinking again in no time and then smoking pot. And then it escalated.
Alaina
Oh, man.
Ash
Meanwhile, Jennifer had also started making major changes in her life. In late spring, she spent some time visiting colleges in Boston.
Alaina
Boston, Boston, baby.
Ash
And she eventually applied and was accepted to Chamberlain Junior College, which is a school with Mount Ida. I feel like people talked about Mount Ida all the time around here.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
So many people go there.
Alaina
Yeah, everyone goes there.
Ash
Everybody. Mount Ida, Mount Ida. When she got back to New York, she found. That was when she found her part time hostess job at Fluties.
Alaina
Oh, okay.
Ash
And according to friends, the job interview at Fluties actually didn't go as well as she hoped it would. But like she had so many times before, her charm just worked for her and eventually she won them over.
Alaina
I love it.
Ash
Her friend Betsy remembered she had to wait three or four hours for an interview, which I'd leave at that point.
Alaina
So like, good for her, seriously.
Ash
And when the guy saw her, he told her she wasn't right for the job. So she grabbed him by the shoulders and told him she was great with people and about all the jobs she's had. She had had selling and made him fall in love with her. And she got the job.
Alaina
Wow.
Ash
Yeah.
Alaina
Jennifer sounds like such a badass.
Ash
Like a hot ticket.
Alaina
That's exactly what she sounds like, you know? Yeah.
Ash
And like, imagine having that chutzpah at that age, like grabbing the man by his shoulders and being like, no, I got this, dude. She's.
Alaina
She sounds. Sounds to me like I'm like a. Like a young Blanche Devereaux.
Ash
Yes.
Alaina
You know, like she's got that vibe to her where she's just like, it, I can do it.
Ash
Yeah. She's a straight shooter.
Alaina
She's a Sass master. I like it.
Ash
She is. So things were looking up for her at this point. Her future was very bright. Everything was on the up and up. But things were not going as well for Robert. All through the summer, he kept telling his friends and family that he was working on getting his life back on track. He was going to enroll in courses at Columbia. But by the end of August, he hadn't enrolled in any classes, hadn't found a permanent job. He was also stealing from friends and acquaintances again. Everybody was like, oh, he's backsliding and this is not good. And it was not. On the evening of August 25th, Jennifer and some of her friends decided to go out to Dorian's Red Hand for one last night out on the town. She's going to be leaving soon. She's going to be moving to Boston, starting her new life. And as it turned out, actually, Brock had been accepted to Northeastern. So Jennifer hoped that they could reconnect and start seeing each other again.
Alaina
Ah, yeah.
Ash
It was true that she had gone on a few dates with Robert Chambers, but insisted, quote, her thing with Chambers was no big thing, just a crush. Nothing at all like the serious relationship she had with Brock. She was really hopeful.
Alaina
I really. I like Brock.
Ash
I do, too.
Alaina
Okay, good.
Ash
Yeah, I do, too.
Alaina
I was like, tell me I can like Brock.
Ash
I only know very minimal things. But what for what I do know, I know.
Alaina
I like.
Ash
Yeah. Now, that night, Robert Chambers had made plans also to meet up with a girl that he'd been dating for a short time, and they decided to go to Dorian's Red Hand together again, like I said, very popular spot. They had been there a few hours by the time Jennifer and her friends arrived just before midnight, and everybody had been drinking. Despite her stated desire to reconcile with Brock, Jennifer was still pretty excited when she saw Robert that night. And she told friends, apparently, that she, quote, wanted to go home with him later. Remember, they dated before. Yeah, casually. She was excited about the future, but she still wanted to live it up and have, you know, one last hurrah before leaving the city. I get it.
Alaina
Why not?
Ash
According to Larissa Thompson, one of the girls that Jennifer had been out with that night, Jennifer, quote, immediately made a beeline for Robert's table when she saw him at Dorian's and seated herself at the table. One of the customers at the bar said she was very flirtatious, definitely outgoing. Robert Chambers, on the other hand, was distracted, it seemed, and occasionally even disinterested. People said he chatted with Jennifer for a little bit but at multiple points throughout the night, he would just get up and walk away, only to return a short time later, which to me says something. Something.
Alaina
It says.
Ash
Yeah, it says a break.
Alaina
Maybe some stuff's going on.
Ash
Lots of people go to New York bathrooms for this.
Alaina
They do. Just as. I mean, they yell about it on Housewives Seasons.
Ash
They do, I think. What are people doing in your bathroom?
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
Now, when asked about his mood that night, Robert explained that he was depressed about a friend from rehab who had recently died. Who knows?
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
Whether it was his emotional upset or his interest in talking to Jennifer, he spent most of the night ignoring the girl he was on a date with.
Alaina
Wow.
Ash
So finally, after an hour had passed without him speaking to her, she approached the table that he was sitting at and threw a bag of condoms in his face and told him he could, quote, use these with someone else, because you're not going to get the chance to use them with me. Me. And stormed out of the bar again.
Alaina
Wow.
Ash
Is this like.
Alaina
I'm like, what?
Ash
That's a. That's a queen move right there.
Alaina
So that's wow.
Ash
Like, wow. If your date is ever ignoring you, do that.
Alaina
Yeah. If I saw someone do that slow clap. I would talk about it for the rest of my life.
Ash
For the rest of my life.
Alaina
That would be the first thing I brought up. Any new person I met, I'd be like, can I tell you this crazy thing that I saw? Yeah, yeah, Absolutely.
Ash
I would.
Alaina
Yeah. Most people forgettable. That girl, not forgettable.
Ash
Well, the date's theatrical exit from Dorian's was also a great opportunity for Jennifer because, you know, she wanted to hang out with Robert that night.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
So now this girl's not on her way.
Alaina
Well, she left.
Ash
So she wasted no time settling in next to Robert at the table. But for all her directness and enthusiasm, for some reason, she wasn't comfortable propositioning Robert directly. Like, I get that. You don't want to be like, you want to get out of here, man.
Alaina
Yeah. And, I mean, he's just had a bag. A literal bag of condoms thrown at him.
Ash
Yeah.
Alaina
In public. Yeah.
Ash
He might be.
Alaina
So that might have made it a little weird.
Ash
It probably did.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
Yeah. So instead, she had a friend ask him to meet her outside of the bar. The friend later said he just tilted his head like, she's driving me crazy, and said, I don't think so. I don't want to deal with it. Which is rude. Go tell her that yourself.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
Now, he might not have wanted to meet Jennifer outside the bar. But that definitely didn't mean that he was uninterested. Because when Jennifer's friends left Dorian's a little past 2am they remembered seeing her still sitting at a table with Robert and engaging in what appeared to be a very serious conversation.
Alaina
So what the.
Ash
Yeah, they're clearly, like, carrying on.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
So a little before 4:30am Several more friends saw Robert and Jennifer get up from the table and leave Dorian's headed in the direction of Central Park. A friend said usually she'd come over and give me a big hug and tell me she'd call me tomorrow, but this time she didn't. I remember she looked sort of mellow, putting her jacket over her shoulder, pulling her hair, and crossing the street like there was no problem. So she didn't seem, like, agitated or, like, upset, anything like that. She seemed fine with Robert.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
But it was a little weird that she didn't say goodbye to anybody. Like, it wasn't like her.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
So that's why it's pretty unclear why the two of them did go into the park that morning. Because they did go into Central Park. Friends of Jennifer's insisted that she would. She wasn't the type of person who would have wanted to have sex outside, because that's ultimately the story that gets told.
Alaina
Oh.
Ash
And several friends of hers were like, no, she wouldn't do that.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
That's not her vibe at all.
Alaina
That doesn't make sense.
Ash
And also, remember, she's like. Like when I was saying earlier that she didn't want to go to public school. She has a fear of danger in, like, dangerous situations.
Alaina
Yeah. She's not reckless.
Ash
Yeah. So she wouldn't have gone into that park if she didn't feel like she was safe with Robert Chamber. So she very clearly did. Did. But this wasn't the first time that Robert had brought a girl into the park for a romantic evening. In fact, a few weeks earlier, he brought another date there, and friends said that the park held special meaning for him. So it's possible he hoped bringing Jennifer there would be a similarly romantic experience.
Alaina
Well, it's like, that doesn't line up with, like, how he was acting earlier.
Ash
No.
Alaina
Unless that was just, like, directly from the girl, like, throwing a bag of condoms at him.
Ash
Yeah, maybe.
Alaina
Maybe he was just like. Like, thrown off for a minute.
Ash
Maybe.
Alaina
I don't know.
Ash
But he was also weird, too.
Alaina
It all sounds weird.
Ash
The night itself seemed like nobody was really acting. Yeah. How they typically would have.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
But I feel like that happens when these kind of things happen. Even though you don't know that, like, something awful is gonna happen, it can be like, in the air sometimes.
Alaina
It's just like some kind of tension happening.
Ash
Yeah, exactly. So Robert and Jennifer entered the park around 4, 4:50 in the morning at an entrance near the Metropolitan Museum of Art. What happened next is only known to Robert himself. And he has changed his story multiple times over the years.
Alaina
Awesome.
Ash
So nobody really knows the exact truth, but this, in my opinion, is not the truth. According to him, he was not interested in Jennifer romantically and initially actually declined to go to the park with her. But Jennifer insisted, he said. So he finally relented and agreed to join her. According to him, she was clearly interested in him and he thought that she wanted to have sex in the park. But he declined her advances and said he was interested in other people and he'd see her around. But he said she freaked out. She, like, got up and knelt in front of me and scratched my face.
Alaina
What?
Ash
Like that would have escalated so quickly.
Alaina
And she knelt in front of him.
Ash
He said she got. She, like, got up, knelt in front of me and scratched my face. Face. Which when you see the scratch marks on his face later because they are photographed, it wouldn't have been like, she scratched my face, like in a cute way or like, yeah, like they're deep scratch marks on his face. He said after that, after that happened, he got up to leave, but that Jennifer apologized and he agreed to stay and keep talking since she had apologized. And despite asking her to sit far away from him, he said she came up behind him and started massaging his shoulder. Shoulders. And he said she. She said I looked really cute and that I would look cuter tied up.
Alaina
Okay.
Ash
According to the statement that he gave police, he didn't think she was serious until she held his wrists together and using her underwear, started to tie them together. Once his hands were bound. Chambers claimed that Jennifer tried to take off his pants, but she was hurting him in the process. And he said she, quote, kind of laughed in a weird way. Like more like a cackle or something.
Alaina
Okay.
Ash
And then he said that his protests only made her more aggressive. And she started scratching his chest and his face and was, quote, laughing and giggling and making weird laughing type sounds while digging her nails into me. This is unbelievable. I. I don't believe this.
Alaina
I'm looking at those scratches on his face right now too.
Ash
They look defensive.
Alaina
They. Absolutely. In my opinion, in my opin opinion.
Ash
In my opinion, in our opinion, with.
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Ash
Like I said at the top, you're.
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Ash
Why are there ridges on Reese's peanut butter cups? Probably so they never slip from her hands. Could you imagine I'd lose it?
Alaina
Luckily, Reese has thought about that.
Ash
Wonder what else they think about. Probably chocolate and peanut butter. So Robert claimed that his screams caught the attention of a nearby jogger, who eventually came over to investigate. But the jogger left the area when Jennifer insisted everything was fine. Okay, then. He claimed he could not take the pain that Jennifer was inflicting on him anymore. So he reached up and grabbed her, putting his arm around her neck and pulling hard. He told detectives it was just really quick. She flipped over and then landed and she was kind of twisted on the tree. So you flipped her over into a tree. At that point, she wasn't moving, and Robert thought that she was trying to frighten him. But when he shook her and got no response, he said he realized she was dead and walked across the park and found a place to sit on the wall where he could still see her body from that position. He said he eventually saw a cyclist enter the park, come upon the body, and then leave and return a short time later with paramedics. Once the ambulance arrived, Robert himself left the scene, went home, showered, and went to bed. Okay, three words. In what world? I. Yeah, in what world?
Alaina
That is.
Ash
World.
Alaina
That's a no for me.
Ash
That's.
Alaina
That's a no for me.
Ash
One of the most bizarre stories.
Alaina
That is a very. That is bizarre is the perfect way to describe that. Bizarre. Not one bit of that makes sense.
Ash
No.
Alaina
Whatsoever.
Ash
No, no.
Alaina
You're literally saying that you put your arm around her neck and like, really quick, though you made sure to say really quick.
Ash
Really quick.
Alaina
Somehow flipped her into a tree.
Ash
Yeah.
Alaina
And then she just died in the tree. Really quick. And you just knew that. That's my favorite part is I realized she was dead.
Ash
Yeah. Interesting.
Alaina
Like that. I'm sorry if that. If. If I got into a little tussle with someone and I. They just flipped into a tree, I wouldn't automatically assume that they were dead. Like, that would be. I'd be like, wow, that was weird. Let me help you up.
Ash
Like that would be.
Alaina
And I wouldn't just be like, wow, I bet you're dead.
Ash
And then also like, what?
Alaina
How did that. Like, he's just like, yeah, I just realized.
Ash
You realized she was dead, and then you went and sat on a bench nearby and watched somebody discover her dead body. Leave. Go get help. You watched that help arrive, and you watched her body be taken away in a body bag and in an ambulance.
Alaina
And then you just went home and showered and went to sleep.
Ash
And at no point did you intervene and tell them, like, what happened here was an accident. Like, let me.
Alaina
Just went to sleep.
Ash
Let me tell you. Interesting that you showered.
Alaina
That's a bonkers story.
Ash
It's crazy. It's a bonkers story, in my opinion. Does not line up with the way that her body was found.
Alaina
Very strange story.
Ash
Yeah. Well, later, detectives showed up at Robert Chambers apartment to question him, and then they took him to the station for further interrogation, where he gave a videoed statement to police.
Alaina
Wow.
Ash
Now let's talk about the crime scene. The crime scene was, unfortunately a pretty familiar one to investigators. A young woman found dead in the park, an apparent victim of sexual assault. Her body was slumped in front of a tree. Her shirt was pushed up. Up, and her bra was wrapped around her neck.
Alaina
What the.
Ash
At the time, they thought that she had been killed, maybe somewhere else and dumped in the park since there were tire tracks leaving the scene and somebody spotted a car around the same time that the body was discovered. But that would quickly be dismissed once she was identified. Now, the crime scene didn't yield a lot of clues or evidence, but there were obvious signs of a struggle. It appeared that she'd been physically Assaulted and hit in the face. According to the medical examiner, the left eye was swollen, discolored, and just about closed. On the bridge of the nose, there was a dark mark. Her mouth was caked in dirt and what appeared to be dried blood.
Alaina
Yeah. Those scratches are defensive, in my opinion. In my opinion.
Ash
Yep. One of Jennifer's front teeth was also loose. And there was a dark red mark around her neck from where her killer had strangled her with her bra. Bra.
Alaina
Wow.
Ash
None of that.
Alaina
That's not lining up.
Ash
None of that aligns with him swiftly.
Alaina
Flipping her over into a tree and how awful. Like that. This poor girl's last moments were filled with that.
Ash
Her front tooth was loose. That's a violent struggle. A violent struggle, yeah. According to the pathologist, the bra had been twisted around her neck, but it was also still hooked in the back. Back. So there was a possibility that her shirt and bra had been pushed up. And maybe the strangulation was an accident. But there was also, like. That is what they thought on a cursory glance.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
But there was petechial hemorrhaging in the eyes that indicated. Indicating that the blood flow to her brain was restricted, which would have been unlikely if it was just a matter of her bra getting wrapped around. Yeah, your bras aren't that tight.
Alaina
It's. We've. We've said it before. It's very difficult to strangle someone. It takes a lot minutes, a lot of, like, pressure and time.
Ash
Consistent pressure.
Alaina
Consistent pressure and cons. Yeah.
Ash
Yeah. So the pathologist said in court later, I thought the deceased was strangled, like, definitively. The murder and Robert's arrest, though, came as a shock to residents around New York, not only because of the brutal facts of the case, but also because of the social status of the young people involved. Jennifer's death shined a light on a social scene that few outside of it knew existed. Both the victim and her killer were not out of their teens, but the lives that they lived reflected a world usually populated by adults, like we were saying, complete with problems like addiction and violence. When asked for a comment about his daughter's death, Stephen Levin said, I have lived in New York City for 19 years, and I have hesitatingly come to the conclusion that it is no longer a fit place to live. It is a social experiment that failed.
Alaina
Wow.
Ash
It's really Sad.
Alaina
Damn.
Ash
On October 28th, Robert Chambers was arraigned on a charge of second degree murder, which is interesting.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
And it was during his arraignment that his lawyer, Jack Lippman, revealed The beginnings of his strategy. In his statement to the court, Lippman explained that Jennifer had been pursuing Robert for several weeks and, quote, that night, she was the aggressor. According to Lippman, Jennifer's death was simply an accident that occurred when his client was trying to defend himself against sexual assault by Jennifer Levitt.
Alaina
Wow.
Ash
Yeah. Lippman preemptively defended against accusations of rape by pointing out how popular Robert Chambers was with women.
Alaina
Wow.
Ash
He said he didn't have to chase girls. They chased him.
Alaina
Oh, yeah. So that. That clears it up.
Ash
Yeah. Attractive people aren't rapists.
Alaina
No, of course not. Because everyone wants to have sex with him.
Ash
Yeah.
Alaina
Because he is conventionally, according to some people, attractive.
Ash
Yeah, totally.
Alaina
Yeah, that. Totally. That checks.
Ash
That's a perfect argument. That's not based on opinion at all.
Alaina
Yeah. People don't have varying, like, attraction levels. Attraction. Attractive. Definitely not.
Ash
But he said that being the case, there would have been no reason for his client to pursue Jennifer, much less sexually assault her.
Alaina
Wow.
Ash
Yeah. Yeah.
Alaina
Wow.
Ash
Yep. The elite status of the defendant and the victim were completely unavoidable, though, from the moment Jennifer's body was discovered. And it was an element of the case that the press simply could not resist. In article after article, young people that made up Jennifer and Robert, social groups groups. Were discussed as distinctly different from teenagers their age. They made this a zoo. In a New York Times article, one reporter wrote, many of them are under 21 and get past the bartender with skillfully applied makeup and expensive clothing that makes them look several years older and with elaborately faked identification. It's like you're talking about women there. You're not talking about the entire social.
Alaina
Yeah. Group, which involves males as well, but cool.
Ash
So that's cool. One teenager who went to the city's hottest nightclubs and restaurants said, you walk in here, no one's gonna challenge you. It's an attitude. So they're very much making this. Putting together this picture that these kids were, like, fast, you know, that they.
Alaina
Put themselves in these positions.
Ash
Exactly.
Alaina
This is very much a victim blaming strategy.
Ash
Yes.
Alaina
Of. Well, what did you expect?
Ash
And it's not only coming from the defense, but, like, the press, everybody. Yeah.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
The emphasis on the expensive and out of control lives of these, you know, Manhattan's elite teenagers reinforced a growing class divide, too, across the city and confirmed what a lot of people outside of that social class believed, that there was one set of rules for rich people and another one for everyone else.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
So immediately everybody's polarized of Course. And that became even more apparent within days of Robert's arrest when he started getting an outpouring of support from wealthy friends and family, and also even influential figures like Archbishop Theodore Edgar McCarrick of New Jersey, who wrote a letter of support in favor for bail.
Alaina
No comment.
Ash
That was a mouthful.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
Yeah. There was also a noticeably gendered tone to the ways people talked about the victim versus the suspect.
Alaina
I'm shocked.
Ash
When discussing Jennifer. Many reports seem to have taken a tip from Jack Lippman, and rather than focus on the fact that she was straight up murdered, they discussed her, quote, sexual aggressiveness.
Alaina
Yeah, that's a cool thing to do when somebody is dead and can't defend themselves.
Ash
Also, how do you know? Yeah, how do you know?
Alaina
Well, you don't. And she's dead, so she can't defend herself.
Ash
And this is.
Alaina
That's the strategy.
Ash
One instance where one person is saying this about her who's also the last person that saw her alive. So, like, are we really gonna.
Alaina
Maybe you should question that a little bit.
Ash
Yeah. Okay. But Robert Chambers, on the other hand, was described in very sympathetic terms. Friends and acquaintances insisted that he was, quote, not the violent type and were shocked that he had, quote, found himself in such a situation.
Alaina
Oh, I love the passive use of found himself.
Ash
I just found myself sitting across Central Park.
Alaina
He just found himself.
Ash
I just looked around, and suddenly I was.
Alaina
What a nice way to say that.
Ash
Yeah. One headline read, friends call Robert a reluctant Romeo. Shy with girls.
Alaina
I hate it here.
Ash
Gross.
Alaina
I hate it here. Yeah. That is so yucky.
Ash
Well, and also, which one is it? Is he a reluctant Romeo, or, like your defense attorney was just saying that he doesn't have to chase girls.
Alaina
Yeah, that girl. Yeah.
Ash
And now he's a reluctant Romeo.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
You can't have it both ways.
Alaina
That. That's very much like the. The Brock Turner effect, where it's like he. You know, he lost everything. He could have been. This kid could have been, like, an amazing athlete. And it's like. I'm sorry, are we talking about. Who are we talking about here? Yeah.
Ash
Who lost everything?
Alaina
What part, victim or aggressor are we talking about? Oh, that leads me. It's very much talking about it. Like, one, this happened to him.
Ash
He. He just found himself in these circumstances. He didn't do it.
Alaina
This happened to him. And two, let's talk about his losses. Him and his losses. And what's like. What?
Ash
It's like he took it away from himself. In that case, one friend from Dorian said, we have to fight for Robert's rights. There's nothing we can do for Jennifer now. That's an instance of I'm.
Alaina
I'm gonna. I'm ahead out.
Ash
We think before.
Alaina
Yeah, we listen. Head out.
Ash
We listen and we judge.
Alaina
Yeah, I listened, and I am judging harshly.
Ash
There's nothing you can do for Jennifer now. I'd say there's actually a lot you could do for Jennifer now.
Alaina
Imagine if everybody. Imagine if everybody thought that way. When somebody gets murdered, it's just like, well, nothing we can do now. That's it.
Ash
Oh, that's nice.
Alaina
Oh, cool. Yeah, sure. Let's just move on.
Ash
Sure. That was great for her family.
Alaina
Yeah, let's blow by that. That literal life that was stopped in its prime.
Ash
You can't be there for her family now. No, you gotta be there for. Oh, no, you have to be there for Robert.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
Interesting. I don't think I get it. So the picture of Robert Chambers as this gentle giant who would never act violently or hurt anybody was just one aspect of Jack Lippmann's defense strategy. Just one day after his arraignment, Lippman also told reporters that he was now weighing an insanity plea. Huh. That's a completely different route, sir.
Alaina
That's interesting.
Ash
He said, it appears that the state of mind of Robert Chambers that led to this tragedy was completely out of character for him, and therefore an insanity plea is possible.
Alaina
Huh. Okay.
Ash
I just feel like you're arguing two very different points at the same time.
Alaina
Yeah, I would say that.
Ash
And what the press didn't know was that this characterization of Robert as innocent was completely at odds with the statements that he had given himself to police. Before giving his statement where he confessed to accidentally causing Jennifer's death, he actually denied having been there at all, which proves.
Alaina
Oops.
Ash
That he knew he was wrong. And he claimed that those scratches on his face came from his cat. Oh, I have three cats. I have three precious baby cats. First of all, they've never scratched my face. Secondly, they don't cause that deep of scratches. Like, I know cat scratches can be deep, but he has scratches all over his face.
Alaina
Yeah, I mean, if you look at the scratches, I wasn't there. So I can't tell you if a cat made those or not, but I would be shocked if a cat made those.
Ash
Yeah, same.
Alaina
I can tell you that.
Ash
Yeah.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
Interesting. Well, later, he deviated from that story and said, yeah, it was Jennifer, but it was like a.
Alaina
It's just so he even later is like, no, it actually was her.
Ash
Yeah, like One night, the first story, the original story, like the chronologically the first story I told.
Alaina
Yeah. But after he, like, later. Okay.
Ash
He changed his story a million times. So I just.
Alaina
I said one of them that's even wilder. That, like, where he's. He moved, like, from the cat to actually know it was her.
Ash
Yeah.
Alaina
Like you were really gonna try to lie about that.
Ash
Oh, yeah. Well, he was gonna say he wasn't even there. And then he was like, actually, I was. And I watched the entire aftermath play out as well.
Alaina
Like, damn. Those are two very different things.
Ash
Yeah, they sure are. That's a theme in this case.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
But a month later, in late September, Robert Chambers did plead not guilty to one charge of second degree murder and one charge of murder under circumstances evincing a depraved indifference to human life. In his statement to the press, Manhattan District Attorney Robert. I think it's Morgan Thou told reporters, we believe that either one or both of these occurred and that the autopsy showed, quote, a substantial amount of pressure had been applied to Jennifer's neck, which justified the charges.
Alaina
Wow.
Ash
On October 1, 1986, Robert Chambers was finally released from jail on $150,000 bond, which is crazy. Yeah. And that was on the condition that he report daily to Monsieur Thomas Leonard, a former teacher at the Church of the Incarceration. No incarnation, is it?
Alaina
Like, Monsignor.
Ash
Monsignor. Monsignor.
Alaina
Monsignor. There it is.
Ash
But it was during this time that the District Attorney announced that Robert Chambers was also under investigation for several burglaries that had occurred around the city, and that charges would also be added in the near future. For those, or could be. At the very least, there were a lot of delays in bringing the case to court. But finally, In January of 1988, Robert Chambers finally went to trial for the murder of Jennifer Levin. In the time between the discovery of the body and the trial, a ton of information and misinformation had been spread through the media, which unfortunately, very much worked to the benefit of the defense, for sure. Since he'd confessed to having played a role in Jennifer's death, though, it was obviously impossible for him to deny that he had killed her.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
So instead, Jack Lippmann's strategy was to obscure various facts about the case in the courtroom and convince the jury that Jennifer's death was the result of his client defending himself against an assault on Jennifer's part.
Alaina
Huh.
Ash
Which is just bonkers.
Alaina
That's truly bonkers.
Ash
And just, like, really up.
Alaina
Damn.
Ash
Yeah.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
In the courtroom, the jury witnessed the Entire videotaped confession that Robert made to the police the day he was arrested. But the problem was, it was clear that the evidence discovered during the investigation didn't support his claims entirely. For instance, the position of Jennifer's body found when she was discovered, the dirt coverage, the extent of her injuries, they were all inconsistent with Robert's claim that he had wrapped his arm around her throat in order to move her off of him.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
Like, again, consistent pressure had been applied to her neck.
Alaina
Oh, yeah.
Ash
It wasn't a quick move.
Alaina
No, it was definitely not that quick. Like, oops.
Ash
No. In order to defend against the obvious inconsistencies, though, Jack Lippman told the jury the tape was the unvarnished truth, but that it contained a number of obvious silly lies that one could expect from a scared teenager just adducing his client to a scared teenager.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
The prosecutor, Linder Linda Fairstein, on the other hand, explained that the facts made Robert Chambers account of assault almost entirely impossible. She pointed out that if the death was an accident and like I said earlier, why didn't he just go for help?
Alaina
Yeah, that's the thing. Why don't.
Ash
Years later, when she was asked about the case, she returned to that point on the Today show in 2016. She said, said he sat on the wall behind the Metropolitan Museum and watched as her body was found and as her body was taken away from the park in a body bag. And he never went over to the police and said, this is my friend. This was an accident. I know who she is. It's like they were. Like they had a history together. They very much knew each other. They were friendly, of course, to just watch and know that whatever the circumstances were, you caused that death. And he was watching.
Alaina
He's a. He's a white man. A rich. Well, I shouldn't say rich, but he is a. He was wealthy and he's socially in a higher echelon. White man.
Ash
Yup.
Alaina
You could have said, you know what I mean? Like, you're, You're. You're not in a position where it's scary for you to. To say that an accident happened. You know what I mean? Where some other people it may be.
Ash
Yeah. Like marginalized.
Alaina
Genuinely scary to say it because you're just not gonna be believed or immediately. It's like you are the one of the only people, you know, one of the only kinds of people that can say that was an accident. You will at the very least be considered to be believable.
Ash
You're so right.
Alaina
You know what I mean?
Ash
Really. Valid point.
Alaina
Like the. The innocent until proven guilty. It's like, that's really only the case for certain people.
Ash
Yep.
Alaina
He happens to be part of that. That kind of people.
Ash
Yeah.
Alaina
You know, so it's like the whole, like. Like, I'm like, so why didn't you. You know, like, you really. Like, that's weird. It's weird. This is. And again, this isn't even like a. This isn't even like a stranger, which would. That would be weird enough. This is somebody like, you genuinely know and cared about. Spent a lot of time with many.
Ash
Yeah. Many instances dated. Yeah.
Alaina
Like, why wouldn't. I don't know. It's just very strange to me. It's.
Ash
It's a very removed position to be.
Alaina
It. It feels that way. Yeah.
D
Hi, weirdos. I'm Candice DeLong, retired FBI criminal profiler and the host of Killer Psyche. If you enjoyed Morbid's coverage of the tragic murder of Jennifer Levin, known as the Preppy Killer case, you should check out my episode of Killer Psyche, where I dive deep into the psychology of Robert Chambers. I explore his troubling behavior, privileged background, and the psychological factors that led to this devastating crime. On Killer Psyche, I used my decades of experience to uncover the why behind some of the most shocking crimes in history. If you are fascinated by what drives people to commit such heinous acts, join me for a closer look into the twisted minds behind them. Follow Killer Psyche on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast. Wondery plus subscribers can listen early and ad free. Start your free trial in the Wondery App, Apple podcasts, or Spotify today.
Ash
Well, the trial dragged on for 13 weeks. And during that 13 weeks, very intimate details of Jennifer's life and sexual experiences were put on display.
Alaina
Which really sucks.
Ash
Which is ridiculous. And that was obviously primarily by the defense in order to portray Robert as the innocent victim in some terrible tragedy.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
And by obscuring the facts of the case and painting a picture of Jennifer Levin as sexually aggressive and assertive, Litman hoped that he could convince at least a few jurors, because that's all you need, that Jennifer's death truly was an accident, that she had attacked Robert, forced him to have rough sex, and he was just protecting himself. Ellen Levin, Jennifer's mother, said later when it happened, how she was being portrayed, how it suddenly became her fault. He was blatantly playing the victim.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
I can't imagine having to stand by.
Alaina
And that again, that it became her fault. Like, that's wild.
Ash
It made it. It's like, she's on trial all of a sudden. In the end, though, the defense's strategy worked. The jury deliberated for nine days before reporting to the judge that they were hopelessly deadlocked. Talked. There was only four jurors convinced of Robert Chambers guilt, and the rest were in favor of an acquittal. Wow. Yeah.
Alaina
That's really shocking.
Ash
It is like it is. Ellen Levin said, I can't imagine that there was someone on that jury that thought he was a clean cut young man who would never do anything like this.
Alaina
Damn.
Ash
In their note to the judge, the foreman indicated that there was actually three jurors who, quote, could not go on because of the mental and emotional strain. And another juror indicated that, quote, votes in the jury room had swayed violently back and forth. So at least there was like, they were very clearly considering there was some.
Alaina
Like, passion behind, you know.
Ash
Yeah, they were considering both sides.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
But. But ultimately came to a very interesting decision.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
So whatever the case, the deadlock jury is usually always. And was in this case a bad sign for the prosecution. They weren't hopeful that a retrial would produce a different outcome. Them. So in late March of 1988, they offered Robert a plea deal. He would plead guilty to one charge of first degree manslaughter in an exchange for a sentence of five to 15 years in prison.
Alaina
Wow.
Ash
Just like nothing. But he had no better options, so he accepted the deal. And before accepting the plea agreement, the judge asked Robert Chambers whether he, quote, intended to cause serious physical injury to Jennifer Levin on the morning of her death. Death. And in response, Chamber said, looking back on everything, I'd have to say yes. But he insisted that, quote, in his heart, he still had not intended to injure. Injure Ms. Levin physically.
Alaina
Huh.
Ash
So he said yes, but no.
Alaina
Yeah, but no.
Ash
Yeah, like what? But not really. Looking back, I'd have to say yes, but, like, not in my heart.
Alaina
But not in my heart. Like, okay, well, that doesn't really help us here.
Ash
That doesn't make any sense to anyone. But in reality, it was revealed in a press conference later that day that Robert Chambers statement was a prerequisite of the agreement. Of course, a spokesperson for the Levin family said one of the big things was hearing him say that he had intent. Still, the plea was a disappointment to the rest of the family, who not only lost a daughter, but also had to watch as she was slandered during the trial. Her grandfather, Arnold Dominic, I believe, said, I can sum up my feelings in eight words. Robert Chambers has literally gotten away with murder. Murder. Wow. Yeah. As far as the family was concerned, the inability to secure a murder conviction was the result of Jack Lippmann's strategy. It absolutely was.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
Her grandfather said Lippman predictably tried his case in the press in which he aimed to malign and character assassinate the victim, reaching the depth of degradation by terming a young girl's simple date book as a sex diary.
Alaina
That's all. I. I understand, again, that this is like a job. I understand the whole thing, but, like, that tactic, to me, it's shitty. Is like dirty pool. Like, that is just. I don't know. Like, I don't see the integrity in that.
Ash
No.
Alaina
As a strategy. I just don't. If you can. If your case is strong, you shouldn't have to malign somebody who's dead's dating history. Yeah.
Ash
I completely.
Alaina
You shouldn't have to and like to do that. I just. This is just. Me personally, I think it's yucky.
Ash
I do, too. Because again, there's.
Alaina
If you can win the case. Win the case.
Ash
There's a lot of routes to go down.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
And he himself, clearly, he had two routes that he could have gone down, but he picked one.
Alaina
I just think it's yucky. And especially when somebody can't be there to defend themselves.
Ash
Exactly.
Alaina
Like, I don't. I don't know.
Ash
And when that person was murdered.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
No matter what, that person was murdered.
Alaina
Exactly. That's the thing.
Ash
It's up. And that's due to the family. It puts the family through a whole other layer of trauma. And one.
Alaina
No one's private life like that should be splashed around for their family to hear.
Ash
No.
Alaina
When they've been murdered.
Ash
Right.
Alaina
They have had the ultimate injustice done to them. And now you're adding on to it. Yeah.
Ash
It's injury.
Alaina
Like, I. I don't know. Like that. Just like having. I don't know. I don't get it. I think it's. I. I understand it's a tactic. I understand that defense attorneys have to do things, but, like, of course. And I understand it's a job and it's a valid job and all that. Don't worry about it. But that particular tactic just doesn't do it for me. I don't get it. I just think if you can win your case, win it some other way.
Ash
Agreed. Agreed.
Alaina
If it's a good case, you'll win it some other way.
Ash
Agreed. Completely.
Alaina
Without having to make, like, slut shame a dead girl.
Ash
Yeah. Well, in April, Robert Chambers went before the judge for Sentencing. And when asked whether he had anything to say, he told the judge to Jennifer, nothing I can do or say will ever bring her back. And I'm sorry. The Levin family has gone through hell because of my actions. And I'm sorry. For two years, I've not been able to say I'm sorry, and I wish to have my feelings known. The judge sentenced Robert Chambers to 15 years in prison for manslaughter with a minimum of five years and another sentence of 15 years for those burglary charges, with those sentences to run concurrently.
Alaina
Damn. Yeah.
Ash
So I. The judge was like, I got you. Yeah.
Alaina
He was like, okay.
Ash
Robert Chambers started his sentence at the Shawagung, I think is how you say it, correctional facility in Ulster County, New York. And it didn't take long, unfortunately, before his addiction issues returned. When he came up for parole in 1993 and 1994, the parole board flat out rejected his bid for parole, and they cited unsatisfactory behavior in prison, including his involvement with drugs.
Alaina
Wow.
Ash
Because people say all the time there's more on the inside than there even is on the outside.
Alaina
Yeah. Which is wild to think about.
Ash
Yeah. Two years later, after being transferred to Greenhaven Prison, Chambers was again denied parole due to, quote, the nature of his offense and poor disciplinary record. Oh, so he was not doing well.
Alaina
Damn.
Ash
After repeatedly being denied parole, Robert Chambers gave an interview to the press where he described himself as a political pawn and a victim of a state administration that was determined to keep him in prison. Which is like, No, I think if you just, like, maybe tried good behavior, it could work out for you.
Alaina
Yeah. It's like, I don't. I don't know about that.
Ash
But he wasn't about that life.
Alaina
No, not about that.
Ash
In 1997, he told the parole board. To be honest with you, I wasn't even going to come in today. I'm at a point where I'd rather just have you tell me, listen, you're gonna max out in 2003.
Alaina
Whoa.
Ash
Like, why did you go, whoa? As it turned out, he was right. He was never granted parole, and he was released in February 2003 after having served his entire full sentence.
Alaina
I. I mean, in part, I'm sure. Not. Not at all. From that attitude that he came in.
Ash
Oh. Because if I'm on the parole board and you say that, I. Yeah.
Alaina
I'm gonna be like, you're sitting there.
Ash
Cool. That's basic. Consider that a request that I am now granting.
Alaina
That's wild.
Ash
But his release was obviously unwelcome. News to Ellen Levin. She said, my concern is that from the minute he gets out of prison, he will be treated like a slave celebrity. In his own statement, Robert Chambers expressed his regret and again apologized to the Levin family. He said, there's not been a day since Jennifer's death that I have not regretted my actions on that day. I know that the Len family continues to suffer her loss and I am deeply sorry for the grief that I have caused them.
Alaina
Wow.
Ash
Yeah. I mean, I mean, nothing you could say can bring someone back.
Alaina
I was going to say, nothing you can say can bring someone back. And that is just a. That case is like, what happened that night is so brutal.
Ash
Yeah.
Alaina
And it's like, I don't, I don't understand how you reconcile that later.
Ash
I just don't understand. I like, I don't understand what happened that night. And I don't think we ever.
Alaina
I don't understand this.
Ash
There's too many stories and I don't believe any of them.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
I have an idea. I have my own idea, obviously, that I'm not going to share because I. We don't need to get into like, opinions here, but. Yeah, but who knows?
Alaina
Because, you know, people, you know, people are walking around here. We don't need to insert our.
Ash
Well, as it turned out, Robert's freedom was to be short lived then.
Alaina
Oh, oh, no.
Ash
And people are walking around, though. In 2005, just two years after his release from prison, he was sent back after pleading guilty to possession of heroin. He was released in 2008, only to be arrested yet again, this time for purchasing 246 grams of cocaine from an undercover police officer.
Alaina
Yikes.
Ash
Yikes.
Alaina
Oh, no. Have not been learned.
Ash
You always wonder how that hits someone.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
When they're like, hey, by the way, you're under arrest after selling you 246 grams of cocaine.
Alaina
That's got a. That's a bad day.
Ash
That's a lot of cocaine, dude.
Alaina
Bad day.
Ash
Yeah.
Alaina
Wow.
Ash
Yeah. Well, after initially intending to go to trial, which I'm like, what were you, what? Robert and his lawyer, they all changed their minds and they accepted a plea deal from the prosecution, where he pleaded guilty in exchange for a sentence of 19 years and four months in prison with five years probation to follow. Awesome. And on July 25, 2023, Robert Chambers was again released from prison after serving 15 years of his 19 year sentence. And he continues to claim that Jennifer's death was accidental and the result of him trying to defend himself during quote, unquote, rough sex.
Alaina
Wow.
Ash
Which I disagree with that.
Alaina
I. I have my own thoughts about that, but. Okay. Wow.
Ash
That is something.
Alaina
That's an unsettling one. On a different level, it is because, like, I. It kills me that, like, we will not know what happened.
Ash
Yeah. And it's really awful for her family.
Alaina
That's what kills me is like, for her family to not have any real idea of what happened except that she was brutally murdered.
Ash
Yeah. And they know the details. They sat through the trial. And we always say your mind fills in those blanks, of course. And it's probably worse than anything that could ever even occur.
Alaina
That's what's. That's what I feel so bad about is like.
Ash
And she was so young.
Alaina
Yeah.
Ash
She was really just about to leave the city. Like, this was her last night out on the town like that. It's just really sad. It's really sad that somebody who was working on their future was taken away by somebody who was very much not.
Alaina
That's the thing. I'm like, are you. Like, you're not clean here? That's the thing.
Ash
Like, I know it's not that simple. Like, as far as addiction goes, I'm.
Alaina
Not going to claim to know that.
Ash
Put the work in, you know, but like, especially. But all those years you have to yourself in prison to work on things.
Alaina
Well. And like, he did. Like, one thing you can say is, like, he was just. He's an entitled. He was an entitled guy. He's an entitled teenager. He was an entitled or absolute friend.
Ash
Said that like.
Alaina
Like, that's the thing. And it's like. And whatever happened that night, something awful happened to her. And whether it was an accident or not, it was brutal as fuck. And I just can't see.
Ash
I mean, remember, like, one of her eyes was swollen near shut.
Alaina
She had blood on her nose.
Ash
Her tooth was loose. She had dirt and blood cake to the side of her mouth.
Alaina
Her bra was pulled up around her neck. Like, this doesn't. Like, you're gonna have to explain to me more like how. Like, I don't get it. I don't understand it. My brain is not. Is not putting this onto that side of the.
Ash
But at the end of the day, it's on. The book says manslaughter.
Alaina
It's manslaughter. Wow.
Ash
Which must just. If I can't imagine somebody doing that to my family member and having to sit with that.
Alaina
That's the thing. Like, just.
Ash
And then to watch that person get out of prison time and time again.
Alaina
Well, that's. That's the worst Part like that. It's just watching someone be able to go live their life. Life.
Ash
Yeah. And then also on like such a silly note, having him be named the Preppy Killer.
Alaina
Well, that's the other thing.
Ash
Come on.
Alaina
It's like when you said that name, I was like, what? Yeah, like, you gotta be me. And weirdly, I. I didn't know this case.
Ash
I didn't know it either, actually. It was a Dave suggestion.
Alaina
Yeah, that was a. That was strange. But I. I hate when they give those kind of nicknames, like the Preppy Killer. Like, that's.
Ash
It's very tasteless.
Alaina
It is, but because it also. That's also a way of taking away some of the sting of the reality of it.
Ash
He's just a preppy guy. He just loves Vineyard.
Alaina
High society guy, you know?
Ash
Totally. Yeah. He's caught in the wrong place.
Alaina
Hate that a lot.
Ash
I do too.
Alaina
Hate that a lot.
Ash
Hate it.
Alaina
And I feel really bad for Jennifer and really bad for those who care about her.
Ash
I know.
Alaina
I agree. I hope. I hope they feel like they got some kind of justice at some point, but.
Ash
Hope so.
Alaina
But it's a little upsetting. It is, yeah.
Ash
Yeah. Big time.
Alaina
Damn.
Ash
But yeah, that was quite an interesting case, to say the least.
Alaina
Very interesting and really sad.
Ash
Yeah. And we will be back next episode, I think, with Listener Tales. So it'll be a nice little palette cleanser.
Alaina
Nice little palate cleanser, if you will. Oh, and this is the end of the episode, so hopefully you're still here. Hi. If you are seeing on Spotify, we're just gonna start opening episodes with this and. And possibly closing with this as well. Honestly, if you are seeing a bonus episode designation on Spotify, we don't have. We don't have bonus episodes. We don't have anything behind a paywall like a bonus episode or anything like that. That's a Spotify issue. They did something like an update with their system or something like that. We have been begging to get that removed, but it's across the board, I guess, like an update that happens and they have yet to be able to remove it. We don't have any bonus episodes behind a paywall, nothing like that. What you are seeing as quote, unquote, bonus episodes that look like they're locked. I think it shows you like that it's locked or something like that. What those are, is they're showing our Wondery week early episodes as bonus episodes behind a paywall, which is not what they are. It's a very misleading thing. It's Very frustrating. We understand why that would be. Like, what the fuck? Like, where are these bonus episodes and why are they behind a paywall?
Ash
Just know that, like, they're not podcasts. I listen to have the same thing going on.
Alaina
Yeah, it's. It's across the board. It's not just our podcast.
Ash
You gotta scroll a little bit, find the available one, or listen on a different platform.
Alaina
Yeah. You know, if you. Wherever you. You know, this is. I think this is a Spotify issue only. So if you go to other platforms, you're not gonna. Like, I listen on Spotify too. So I don't like shitting on Spotify. But, like, but if it bothers you to see that the fake bonus episode that doesn't exist, like, you can go somewhere else to listen to it.
Ash
Go tell them. Because we know that. Yeah, let them know that.
Alaina
It's, like, really misleading because, like, we want it taken down as well. Because it's. We have been getting a lot of feedback that you guys think that we're, like, putting bonus episodes behind a paywall. And I promise you we're not. We will never do that. We're never gonna put bonus episodes behind a paywall.
Ash
No.
Alaina
Like, it's just not something we're gonna do where it, like, shows up in your feed as, like, oh, you wanna listen to this? Go pay money. Cause it's not in our real feed.
Ash
Like, not our vibe.
Alaina
That's not the vibe. So I promise you we'll reiterate this at the end, beginning of the next few episodes too. Just because I want everybody to know that, like, yeah, it's not. It's not a bonus episode by end of paywall. It's just not promise. So, yeah, with all that being said.
Ash
We hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird, but not so weird that you think that we do bonus episodes, because we don't even do bonus episodes. Those are not even locked by.
Alaina
A bonus episode would be free. Like Tobias's Toby Sa.
Ash
Foreign. If you like morbid, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey@wondery.com survey.
E
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Host/Author: Morbid Network | Wondery
Release Date: April 21, 2025
In Episode 665 of Morbid, titled "Robert Chambers: The Preppy Killer," hosts Ash and Alaina delve into the tragic and complex case of Robert Chambers, a young man from an affluent background who was convicted of the brutal murder of Jennifer Don Levin. This episode explores the intricate details of both the victim's and the perpetrator's lives, the events leading up to the crime, the subsequent investigation, trial, and the lingering questions surrounding the case.
Jennifer Don Levin
Jennifer Don Levin was born on May 21, 1968, in Port Washington, New York, to Stephen and Ellen Levin. Raised on Long Island's North Shore, Jennifer was known for her independence and charm. As Alaina notes, Jennifer "insisted on doing things for herself," showcasing a strong-willed and resourceful nature from a young age (06:18).
Jennifer attended the Baldwin School in Manhattan after her parents' divorce, where she thrived academically and socially. Despite her affluent upbringing, she maintained a distinctive personality, preferring adult contemporary music and embracing a healthy vegetarian lifestyle early on (08:30). Her charisma was evident; Ellen Levin remarked, "she just made people smile by just walking into a room" (07:34).
Robert Chambers
Robert Emmett Chambers Jr., born September 25, 1966, in Queens, New York, was the only child of Phyllis and Robert Chambers Sr. Raised initially in a working-class neighborhood, the family later moved to the Upper East Side. Despite attending elite prep schools like York Prep on scholarship, Robert felt socially isolated due to his modest financial status compared to his peers (12:40).
Robert's upbringing was marked by emotional distance from his parents, who prioritized education over emotional support. This environment contributed to his internal struggles and eventual descent into substance abuse. His involvement in the Knickerbocker Grays, a prestigious drill team, highlighted a facade of social success that concealed his growing sense of entitlement and insecurity (16:22).
Both Jennifer and Robert navigated affluent social circles characterized by parties, casual relationships, and substance use. Jennifer, though maintaining responsibilities like her job at Fluties, began prioritizing partying over academics and work, leading to strained relationships and declining performance (26:02). Similarly, Robert's life spiraled as his drug addiction intensified, leading him to engage in criminal activities such as theft and vandalism (27:19).
Despite brief periods of rehabilitation, Robert's inability to maintain sobriety resulted in recurrent legal issues, including burglaries and drug possession. By the summer of 1985, both individuals were grappling with personal turmoil, setting the stage for the fateful night at Dorian's Red Hand (29:38).
On August 25th, Jennifer and her friends planned a final night out before Jennifer moved to Boston. Concurrently, Robert had his own plans, intending to meet a new date at Dorian's Red Hand, a popular Manhattan bar. The two paths collided when Jennifer, hoping to reconnect with her ex-boyfriend Brock Pernice, approached Robert at the bar.
Jennifer, described as "very flirtatious and definitely outgoing," immediately sought out Robert (36:43). Throughout the evening, Robert appeared distracted and disengaged, leading to tension. At one point, Jennifer, frustrated by his lack of attention, threw a bag of condoms at him and stormed out (38:05).
However, their interactions continued. Jennifer insisted on meeting Robert outside the bar, leading them into Central Park. Robert's account of the incident is fraught with inconsistencies. He claimed that Jennifer became aggressive during their encounter, resulting in a struggle that led to her accidental death (42:30). Notably, Jennifer's defensive injuries, including a swollen left eye and scratches on her face, contradicted Robert's narrative of a brief and accidental altercation (49:44).
Defense Strategy
Robert Chambers faced charges of second-degree murder and manslaughter, with his defense attorney, Jack Lippman, advocating an insanity plea. Lippman's strategy focused on portraying Jennifer as the aggressor, suggesting that Robert acted in self-defense during a forced sexual encounter. Quotes from the trial reveal attempts to undermine Jennifer's character, such as highlighting her assertiveness and his own unintentional involvement (52:14).
Media Portrayal
The case received extensive media coverage, often sensationalizing the social status of both the victim and the accused. Articles emphasized the elite lifestyles of Manhattan's wealthy youth, inadvertently fostering a "victim-blaming" narrative around Jennifer's actions and Robert's privileged background. This portrayal contributed to public polarization and influenced perceptions of the case (54:12).
Trial Proceedings
The trial lasted 13 weeks, during which intimate details of Jennifer's life were scrutinized to support the defense's narrative. The jury ultimately became deadlocked after nine days, unable to reach a unanimous decision. This impasse led to a plea deal, with Robert pleading guilty to manslaughter in exchange for a reduced sentence of five to 15 years in prison (67:31).
Robert Chambers was sentenced to 15 years for manslaughter, serving his full sentence and facing subsequent legal issues related to substance abuse upon his release in 2003. Despite his plea, the Levin family felt justice was not fully served, expressing deep frustration over the plea deal that resulted in a manslaughter conviction rather than second-degree murder (72:26).
The case left lingering questions about the true nature of the altercation and the influence of socio-economic status on legal outcomes. Ellen Levin, Jennifer's mother, criticized the judicial process and the portrayal of her daughter, highlighting the broader implications of privilege and justice (74:21).
Throughout the episode, Ash and Alaina express their dismay at the inconsistencies in Robert Chambers' accounts and the ethical implications of the defense's strategies. They emphasize the tragic loss of Jennifer's life and the enduring pain experienced by her family. The hosts critique the media's role in shaping public perception and the systemic issues that allow individuals from privileged backgrounds to evade full accountability for their actions.
Notable Quotes:
Episode 665 of Morbid presents a chilling exploration of privilege, accountability, and the tragic consequences of personal failings. Through detailed storytelling and critical analysis, Ash and Alaina uncover the multifaceted dimensions of the Robert Chambers case, leaving listeners to ponder the deeper societal issues highlighted by this heartbreaking event.
For further insights into Robert Chambers' psychological profile, Candice DeLong, a retired FBI criminal profiler, invites listeners to explore her episode on Killer Psyche. Additionally, for updates and more episodes, listeners are encouraged to join Wondery Plus for ad-free access and early listening privileges.
Note: Timestamps correspond to the original transcript provided.