Episode 685: Glen Helzer and the Children of Thunder (Part 1)

Summary

Morbid Season 32, Episode 685: Glen Helzer and the Children of Thunder (Part 1)

Released June 30, 2025

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Introduction

In Season 32 of Morbid, hosts Ash and Alaina delve into the mysterious disappearance of Ivan and Annette Steinman in 2000 and the subsequent baffling murders in Marin County that seem to intertwine with the enigmatic figure of Glenn Helzer. This first part of the two-part series meticulously unpacks the intricate web of events, relationships, and dark secrets that link these seemingly unrelated cases.

The Disappearance of the Steinman Family

On the evening of July 30, 2000, Nancy Hall, daughter of Ivan and Annette Steinman, made a routine call to check on her elderly parents. However, unlike their usual warm conversations, Annette appeared rushed and abruptly ended the call, mentioning unexpected visitors. Concerned by the unusual brevity, Nancy couldn't reach her parents for several days, prompting her to visit their home.

Upon arrival, Nancy noticed the absence of her parents' minivan in the driveway—a rare occurrence indicating their sudden departure. Disturbingly, she discovered their pets in distress: one cat locked in the bathroom without food or water, and another restrained outside in the backyard. "Nancy and her sister had always had pets when they grew up, and they had inherited from their parents a big love and appreciation and respect for animals. So it was impossible for this to have happened on purpose," Alaina notes at [19:23].

Inside the house, the scene was chaotic. Personal papers were strewn about, and most chillingly, Ivan's wristwatch was found damaged and lying beneath the couch. "When she picked it up to look at it, she noticed the band was damaged around the clasp. Like it had been ripped off Ivan's wrist. Not taken off," Ash elaborates at [20:45]. Despite thorough police investigations, no evidence suggested foul play, leaving investigators perplexed.

A notable witness account from a neighbor described seeing "two men she described as looking like Mormon missionaries walking up to the Steinman house a little before 8pm" on the night of the disappearance ([22:31]). This vague description would later become a crucial clue in the unfolding mystery.

The Marin County Murders

Just days after the Steinman family's disappearance, another grisly case emerged. On August 3, authorities in Marin County responded to a report of gunshots at a nearby residence. Inside a small studio apartment, they found the lifeless bodies of 45-year-old Jennifer Valerian and her 54-year-old boyfriend, James Gamble, both shot with a 9mm handgun. Disturbingly, both victims were found nude, with Jennifer still in bed and James on the floor beside her.

The murders bore no signs of robbery or struggle, making the motive elusive. Jennifer, formerly the wife of renowned blues musician Elvin Bishop, was a beloved community figure, further complicating the investigation. "We were still working on a motive. It doesn't appear to be a robbery or a random type of thing," Undersheriff Dennis Finnegan stated during a press conference at [24:58].

Adding to the mystery, Jennifer's daughter, Selina Bishop, who resided in the same apartment, was missing. Investigators learned that Selina had been camping in Yosemite and had been staying at her mother's apartment. However, no one had heard from her since her departure a week earlier, an anomaly given her usually communicative nature.

Connecting the Dots: Glenn Helzer's Emergence

As the investigations progressed, connections between the two cases began to surface. Selina Bishop's boyfriend was identified only by the first name "Jordan," with no last name available. Delving deeper, detectives examined Selina's pager records, which revealed frequent contact with a Glenn Taylor Helzer. Despite no initial red flags in his background, further scrutiny unveiled unsettling links.

Glenn lived with his brother, Justin Helzer, who owned a 9mm handgun—the same caliber used in Jennifer and James's murders. This connection raised significant suspicions, prompting investigators to explore Glenn's past. Born on July 26, 1970, in Lansing, Michigan, Glenn was known for his charming demeanor and devout Mormon faith. However, beneath the surface, Glenn grappled with severe mental health issues, including a diagnosis of bipolar disorder, type one with manic features, which exacerbated his volatile behavior.

Alaina reflects on Glenn's troubled nature, stating, "It's bad he thinks he's a prophet... it made him very difficult to be around, and it made difficult for him to interact with people who didn't immediately give in to his literal every whim and demand" ([48:19]).

Glenn Helzer: A Troubled Doomed Soul

Glenn's early life was marked by high expectations and strict religious upbringing. His grandfather, Doyle Sorenson, a fervent Mormon with fringe beliefs, exerted considerable influence over him. Doyle's claim of seeing Jesus Christ on his front lawn was a defining moment that blurred the lines between faith and delusion for Glenn ([35:07]). This episode of witnessing divine presence deeply impacted Glenn, leading him to question his beliefs and the foundations of his faith.

Despite his outward success—balancing a career at Morgan Stanley and a seemingly stable personal life—Glenn's internal turmoil was evident. His marriage to Ann in 1993 quickly deteriorated due to his controlling nature and inability to accommodate normal societal behaviors like enjoying cable television. "He was becoming unreliable. By the summer of 1996, Ann had also begun to notice these changes in Taylor, what he described as testing out the, quote, sinning side of life," Ash explains at [45:19].

Glenn's professional life mirrored his personal instability. Initially thriving at Morgan Stanley despite minimal formal education in finance, his performance waned as personal issues took center stage. By 1998, Glenn was excommunicated from the Mormon church due to his drug use and lifestyle divergent from church teachings, marking a significant turning point in his descent into chaos ([51:17]).

Conclusion and Tease for Part 2

As Part 1 concludes, the intricate background of Glenn Helzer sets the stage for deeper exploration in the next episode. His tumultuous journey from a revered family member to a man grappling with mental illness and religious disillusionment hints at a dark path that may intertwine his fate with the unresolved disappearances and murders. Ash poignantly remarks, "We just wanted to start out by saying fuck ice. And we don't. We don't agree with any of this," ([04:24]) emphasizing the broader societal tensions that frame these personal tragedies.

Listeners are left on the edge, anticipating the unraveling of Glenn Helzer's involvement and the chilling revelation of the Children of Thunder in the upcoming second installment. As Ash and Alaina promise, "part two will take you to the thunder" ([51:45]), hinting at revelations that could redefine the understanding of these baffling cases.

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Notable Quotes:

• Ash [20:45]: "When she picked it up to look at it, she noticed the band was damaged around the clasp. Like it had been ripped off Ivan's wrist. Not taken off."

• Alaina [19:23]: "Nancy and her sister had always had pets when they grew up, and they had inherited from their parents a big love and appreciation and respect for animals. So it was impossible for this to have happened on purpose."

• Ash [22:31]: "The neighbor shifted her attention elsewhere and didn't think about it until the detectives brought it up."

• Ash [35:07]: "Doyle claimed that he'd seen Jesus Christ on his front lawn."

• Alaina [48:19]: "It's bad he thinks he's a prophet... it made him very difficult to be around, and it made difficult for him to interact with people who didn't immediately give in to his literal every whim and demand."

Final Thoughts

Episode 685 of Morbid masterfully intertwines personal tragedy with mysterious criminal acts, presenting a compelling narrative that keeps listeners engaged and eager for the next installment. Through meticulous research and captivating storytelling, Ash and Alaina shed light on the enigmatic figure of Glenn Helzer, setting the stage for revelations that promise to untangle the complex web of the Steinman disappearance and the Marin County murders.

Transcript

[Ash]

Hey weirdos. Before we dive into today's twisted tale, let me tell you about a place where the darkness never ends. Wondery. It's like stepping into a haunted mansion where the floorboards creak with ad free episodes and early access to new episodes lurks around every corner. So come join us if you dare. Morbid is available one week early and ad free only on Wondery. You can join Wondery in the Wondery app or in Apple podcasts or Spotify.

[Alaina]

You're listening to a Morbid network podcast.

[Cody]

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[Cody]

Hey weirdos.

[Ash]

I am Ash. And I'm Alaina.

[Cody]

And this is Moabed.

[Ash]

Small bed. Small bed.

[Cody]

Honey, how are you?

[Ash]

I'm not Great with the state of the world.

[Alaina]

Yeah, it's pretty out there.

[Ash]

One thing we just want to make pretty clear is ice.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So if you work at ice, right.

[Alaina]

Off the top, you have to be a demon.

[Ash]

Yeah, it's. It's pretty awful. And I hope if you're in Los Angeles, you're safe and you're okay. And we know that you're not rioting.

[Alaina]

You'Re protesting as your constitutional right.

[Ash]

So, you know, keep at it. Be safe.

[Alaina]

Hold American flags.

[Ash]

Hold American flags. For the optics. Yep. You know, I saw somebody on TikTok say that, and I thought that was pretty smart.

[Alaina]

I've been seeing a few people say that.

[Ash]

Yeah. So that it's not, you know, they can't twist it.

[Alaina]

And be careful.

[Ash]

Be very careful.

[Alaina]

Look out. If you see people, like, in trouble, try to help them.

[Ash]

Yeah. But, like, really be safe. And I'm sorry that this is happening to you guys and that you're being, you know, retaliated against. That's fucked up. There is. I know there's, you know, there's other protests going on, so everybody be safe and, you know, fight the good fight, but stay safe.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Because this is really fucked up.

[Alaina]

It's a very, very scary time to be alive.

[Ash]

It really, really is. And we didn't vote for this, so.

[Alaina]

No, the fuck we didn't.

[Ash]

I mean, I'm pretty sure that was pretty clear. But I think it's important to say it outright in these here streets because there's some people who are not saying it outright. And that makes me say, yeah, no, we def. What's happening there.

[Alaina]

We defo. Did not vote for that.

[Ash]

No, definitely not. And again, know your rights, which I know in this, you know, time and space, we're not exactly being listened to at this point, but when it comes to ice and all that stuff, know your rights. Know what they can and can't do.

[Alaina]

You don't have to sign anything.

[Ash]

Yeah. But I know that it's getting harder to do that even, because they're really just overstepping things. But. Yeah, we just wanted to start out by saying that fuck ice. And we don't. We don't agree with any of this. And.

[Alaina]

And this is stolen land anyway, so.

[Ash]

So really? Yeah.

[Alaina]

You have a right to be here just as much as we do.

[Ash]

And everybody has a right to a dignified and, you know, humane path to citizenship, if that is the path they would like to take.

[Alaina]

And like Dutchy said, I don't fucking.

[Ash]

Care about the piece of paper Dutchy on TikTok.

[Alaina]

I love Dutchy.

[Ash]

I love Dutchy on TikTok. And I agree. Like, that's, you know. So take care of your community members. Stay strong, everybody. We'll get through this.

[Alaina]

We will. We'll get on the other side.

[Ash]

And again, I don't know when this comes out 42 years from now.

[Alaina]

So hopefully this will be out after the next presidential election.

[Ash]

Yeah, exactly. But hopefully, you know, that this is something we've been feeling as it's happening, and we would love to say it earlier than this on the podcast.

[Alaina]

But it won't always be like this.

[Ash]

Yeah, it won't always be like this. June 30th is when this will come out, so it'll be quite some time after this all started. So I'm sure you're like, hey, what?

[Alaina]

But we felt like this, but it's.

[Ash]

In the moment right now. It's June 13th right now, so we are feeling it as it's happening. Yes. And, you know, check out my social media if you want to see how I feel.

[Alaina]

Yeah, same.

[Ash]

I'm back. So. Yeah, we just had to say something. We thought it was really important. But besides that, what has been going on?

[Alaina]

With me?

[Ash]

Yeah. No, with. With the guy.

[Alaina]

Little old me.

[Ash]

With me.

[Alaina]

Oh, my God, so much. It was my birthday.

[Ash]

It was your birthday?

[Alaina]

Yeah. It was fun. I just vibed.

[Ash]

I love that.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Cody]

I turned 29.

[Alaina]

I was like, what? Do you really do?

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Cody]

You know, I used to be like, it's my birthday.

[Alaina]

It's my fucking birthday. Yeah. I used to be really intense about it.

[Ash]

But as you. I feel like as you get older, it becomes like you just want to have chill birthdays.

[Alaina]

Yeah. It's just a day I hung out with my little sister and her fiance, who's adorable. I love her fiance. I love my little sister.

[Ash]

I love them, too.

[Alaina]

You had a walk so you couldn't be there?

[Ash]

I did. I had the Boston Children's Hospital Eversource walk.

[Alaina]

How was that?

[Ash]

It was actually great.

[Cody]

You raised some money?

[Ash]

Yeah, we raised some money.

[Cody]

I do nodded.

[Ash]

We got to see people that, you know, helped my daughter survive something awful.

[Alaina]

That's pretty great.

[Ash]

That was pretty great.

[Alaina]

He said thanks.

[Ash]

Yeah. We got to say thanks. Thanks. And the girls were involved in it. We always take them on the walk so they can be part of everything.

[Alaina]

It's so crazy. That happened when she was 4.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

And, like, now she's just a fucking adult.

[Ash]

Yeah. It's wild.

[Alaina]

Insane.

[Ash]

It's so crazy. And, like, thriving like hell. Yeah.

[Alaina]

Drew And I were talking about that the other day and I was like, it's crazy. Cause she remembers a lot of it.

[Ash]

Oh yeah, she does.

[Alaina]

Which is like nuts. Cause she was four, but obviously it was so traumatic.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

But I'm just like, the fact that she came out of that unscathed is wild.

[Ash]

She's thriving now. Yeah. And we got. And while we were there, we got to see Lil Funk. Lil Funk, which are the, like, official dance troupe of the Boston Celtics.

[Alaina]

I love that.

[Ash]

They're like these little kids and I think it's. I think it's in Everett, Massachusetts. It's like funk phenomenon or something. And they have all different age groups and they are some of the best dancers I have ever seen in my life. They're all age fun, but Lil Funk is like the little kids and they kill it like it is. Watching them is unlike anything you will experience.

[Alaina]

I love them Lil Funk for life.

[Ash]

But yeah, they're all amazing. Like, they had the adult ones perform too, and they were out of this world. Amazing. So that's really fun. So if you get to a Celtics game, you'll probably see Lil Funk.

[Cody]

Oh, and I'm gonna be at so many more next year, right?

[Ash]

Hell yeah.

[Alaina]

Yay.

[Ash]

Hell yeah.

[Alaina]

I don't have seasons tickets yet.

[Ash]

What else did. Oh, since we've talked to you, we went Jack's Mannequin show.

[Alaina]

That was so much fun.

[Ash]

That was a lot of fun.

[Alaina]

We got to hang out with Andrew.

[Ash]

We got to see Andrew. That was lovely.

[Cody]

Got to go on the side stage.

[Ash]

Yeah, that was really fun. We got to watch the end of the show from backstage.

[Alaina]

I've never felt cooler in my life.

[Ash]

Yeah, it was a lot of fun. That was a huge experience. That was big.

[Alaina]

Wants to come back on the show.

[Ash]

Big up. Yeah, he's going to come back. So we'll do another show with him. Hopefully soon. I think. Actually, yeah, a couple of months or so. We got some cool stuff coming up.

[Alaina]

Yeah, we do.

[Ash]

So, you know, I guess without further ado, we should get into this wild case.

[Cody]

Yeah, it's yours.

[Alaina]

This is an interesting, like, title.

[Ash]

Yeah, I would say so.

[Alaina]

Like title. Title.

[Ash]

This is part one. Because there's a lot of information going to be thrown at you. It's Glenn Helzer and the Children of Thunder.

[Alaina]

The Children of Thunder.

[Ash]

Yeah. Like, that sounds very ominous.

[Alaina]

Is it a cult?

[Ash]

I guess you'll have to see me.

[Alaina]

Okay.

[Ash]

But if this is gonna be a two parter and this takes place in 2000 actually, so not like crazy old I mean, that is sort of.

[Alaina]

That is pretty old, but like 25 years ago.

[Ash]

To me, that's 10 years ago. So I don't. I don't understand to be as well.

[Alaina]

I talked to somebody who was born in 2002 the other day and I was like, what the.

[Ash]

Yeah, I can't.

[Alaina]

Even though I'm not that far away from it.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

Something about. I know.

[Ash]

I was gonna say you're really not that far.

[Cody]

I'm not.

[Alaina]

But like 96 and 2002, completely different, like things entirely.

[Ash]

No, I get that.

[Alaina]

You know, and I'm just old.

[Ash]

I'm just old. Old soul.

[Alaina]

I hang out with you guys all the time.

[Ash]

There's. There's a Red Sox prospect that got brought up recently from like the minors.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So there's. His name is Roman Anthony. And John found out the other day and it very much upset him in his core that Roman Anthony was born in 2004.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

He's 18. He was about. No, he's not 18. He's 20. He just turned 21, I think. No, no, no.

[Alaina]

Sorry. I was reading.

[Ash]

I graduated in 2004. That was 20 years ago.

[Alaina]

It said the 18 year old was drafted in the second round in 2022. But still he's what? So what is he, 20, 20?

[Ash]

He's like 21. Essentially.

[Alaina]

Fucking insane.

[Ash]

But what's even worse is he was like five months old when the Red Sox won the World Series.

[Alaina]

Were you?

[Ash]

The Red Sox won the World Series. He was a five month old who was then going to be one of their hottest prospects 20 years later. Which is like a very. Like, I just can't wrap my brain around that.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

That's crazy. It just really. I was like, whoa. Every time they come through, especially on the Red Sox for some reason.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

They're just so young that I'm like, you are babies and I don't know what to do.

[Alaina]

I mean, 20, 21 is young.

[Ash]

That's. Baby.

[Alaina]

I. We started this when I was 21.

[Ash]

Yeah. Wow.

[Alaina]

I might have been 22, but I was like around that age.

[Ash]

That's bonkers.

[Alaina]

I know. I'm a whole different. The human now. Herman.

[Ash]

Herman. Are we all so speaking so that it all goes to say that this took place in 2000.

[Alaina]

Sorry. We really feels like we really digressed.

[Ash]

Yeah. It's been a long week. Okay.

[Alaina]

You know what, though? I think people are enjoying that we're digressing lately because they're saying it feels like old, morbid.

[Ash]

I have seen a lot of people. It Feels like old, morbid. Yeah.

[Alaina]

Is it because we're digressing?

[Ash]

I think it is because we're just like going for. I don't know, I feel there's a reason.

[Alaina]

Well, the way I was just. The way I was just going to, like, be so for real with y' all, we got. We have to keep going.

[Ash]

We have to keep going. I feel, I feel fancy free, you know, I feel like, I feel like we're. We're back to the. The roots. So. On the evening of July 30, 2000, Nancy hall called her elderly parents, Ivan and Annette Steinman, to check in with them. You know, she'd done that regularly for years. Nancy's mother answered the phone that night. But rather than chatting as she usually did during these calls, Annette seemed as though she was in a rush and didn't really have a lot of time to talk. After a few minutes of chatting, Annette told her daughter that she'd have to hang up and would call her back later since they were expecting company and they just arrived. Okay, so Ivan and Annette Steinman met while Ivan was serving in the Coast Guard during World War II, and they fell in love immediately. To the outside world, they seemed like a little bit of like an unusual match. Just because Ivan was really quiet and reserved and he didn't have a lot of, like, big displays of emotion. And Annette was outgoing, very gregarious, very active, like total opposites attract kind of situation.

[Alaina]

That's the thing. I was just going to say opposites attract.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Cody]

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[Ash]

Despite those differences of character, they just clicked. Nancy said of her parents. Mom was the stronger one. They made a good team. Nancy's sister Judy also said this. She said they were each half of a whole, very in tune with each other. They loved each other very much.

[Alaina]

Oh, that's precious. And I bet it's going to ruin me later now.

[Ash]

The couple married in 1945 and soon after Annette gave birth to two daughters, Nancy and Judy. In many ways, the family was the picture perfect 1950s American family. They got along well and both parents were actively involved in their daughters lives. Judy later recalled, our parents were always interested in our lives. They made sure we did our homework. They watched over us and cared how we did. Oh, Ivan and Annette strive to give their daughters everything they could possibly need or want. Despite their very meager means and limited income. They were the kind of parents who like kids come first. We, we either get or we don't.

[Alaina]

So good parents.

[Ash]

Exactly. Now in fact, Ivan A professional, a professional carpenter built the family home in California himself with help from his wife and the children.

[Alaina]

Iconic.

[Ash]

Yeah, Nancy said. We were so poor in the beginning. Mom and dad had to take old nails from boards, straighten them, and use them in the new construction. Oh, wow.

[Alaina]

Yeah, that's terrifying.

[Ash]

Despite the stresses of a working class life, Nancy and Judy have nothing but fond memories with their parents, especially, like, little outings they took, like family camping trips they would take every summer, and they would go fishing on, like, fishing trips with their dad a lot.

[Alaina]

That's really cute.

[Ash]

Now, when carpentry became too much of a physical strain, Ivan found work in the credit card division of Chevron, which is a national energy company with multiple business products and platforms. Yeah, I've heard of Chevron. You know, the job was stressful and it, you know, there were long hours, but it was pretty financially rewarding and it allowed them to buy a home in a relatively upscale city of Concord, about 30 miles outside of San Francisco.

[Alaina]

Oh, I thought you were going to say mass.

[Ash]

No. And once both girls had moved out of the house, Annette also found a job with Chevron, and they were earning a good living. Nice. All Ivan and Annette's hard work definitely paid off because by the time they retired, they had invested very wisely and had managed to save a decent amount of money, thanks in part because of a young, savvy financial advisor with Morgan Stanley. This savings and wise investment allowed Ivan and Annette to enjoy their retirement years. Going on trips, fishing together. Not a lot of financial stress. They just kind of could like, live that easy life.

[Alaina]

Living it up.

[Ash]

Yeah, it was really an ideal retirement. Like, it looked like it was like their reward for an entire life dedicated to their family and hard work. Essentially like they were that couple that.

[Alaina]

You'Re like, hell yeah, good on ya.

[Ash]

Now, on the afternoon of July 30, Ivan and Annette spent the afternoon at Coco's restaurant in downtown Concord, sharing a few drinks and a lunch later with friends. At one point, Ivan mentioned that they'd recently had a tech from the cable company out to work on something at the house, and he felt the man had taken a very long time to do what was, as far as Ivan could tell, a pretty straightforward task. Uh oh. At hearing that, his friend Harry had joked and was like, oh, maybe the guy's case in your house. He could be. The four friends finished their lunch a little before 3pm and Ivan and Annette arrived home 10 or 15 minutes later. A few hours later, just before 8pm, Nancy called to check in. Yeah, but her mother had cut the conversation short because they were having people over that evening. The Steinman family had always been close, and Nancy was not accustomed to having days pass without hearing from her mother or father.

[Alaina]

Oh, no.

[Ash]

When four or five days passed and she hadn't heard from either of them and couldn't get them on the phone, she decided to drive over to the house to check on them. And when she arrived at the house, she immediately knew something was wrong. The couple's minivan wasn't in the driveway, which indicated they weren't home.

[Alaina]

Oh, that's weird.

[Ash]

And on the doorstep, Nancy found a pile of the previous day's newspapers delivered but never brought in the house. Inside, things were even more concerning. Upstairs, Nancy found one of Ivan and Annette's cats locked in the bathroom without food or water. No. After spending some time looking around the house, she found the other cat locked outside in the backyard. Oh. Nancy and her sister had always had pets when they grew up, and they had inherited from their parents a big love and appreciation and respect for animals. Yeah. So it was impossible for this to have happened on purpose.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Neither of them would have locked those cats in a bathroom or outside, much less without food or water. They never would have done that to their animals.

[Cody]

No.

[Ash]

Elsewhere in the house, there were other signs that something was amiss. It looked like they had gone through their personal papers in a hurry and hadn't put the house back together after doing that.

[Alaina]

Okay.

[Ash]

Like, it was just a mess. And most distressing of all, and I understand why this really lit the alarm bells. Nancy found her father's wristwatch on the floor in the living room.

[Alaina]

Oh, that.

[Ash]

Isn't that chilling. Yes. And it was, like, just underneath the couch.

[Alaina]

Nope. I fucking hate that. I think I would immediately cry.

[Ash]

Oh, it would ruin me. Yeah. And when she picked it up to look at it, she noticed the band was damaged around the clasp. Like it had been ripped off Ivan's wrist. Not taken off.

[Alaina]

Yeah. Something is not right here.

[Ash]

Yeah. So very concerned about all this, she called the police and reported her parents missing. Investigators came a short time later and performed a thorough search of the house. But as far as anyone could tell, the only things missing were Ivan and Annette. Although it's always concerning when an elderly couple disappears for days, there was little to indicate they'd gone missing as a result of foul play. Like, not there was stuff, but, like, not a lot for them to go.

[Alaina]

On, you know, like blood or anything like that.

[Ash]

That's the thing. They didn't find any kind of glass Shattered or obviously there is signs that something is amiss here. The wristwatch.

[Alaina]

Yes, the wristwatch being the biggest one in the cats.

[Ash]

And the cats, they never would have done that. Like that to me would have been like really a problem.

[Alaina]

Bizarre.

[Ash]

Yeah. Also, a canvas of the neighborhood didn't produce any new or alarming details from neighbors. So again, there's really nothing to go on. Not in my neighborhood. There was, however. I know that's why it's really good to have like a very active and nosy neighborhood, if you can.

[Cody]

Yes.

[Ash]

There was, however, one statement from a neighbor that seemed to confirm what Nancy's mother had told her over the phone when they last spoke. According to the neighbor across the street, on the night of July 30, she happened to be looking out her window and saw two men she described as looking like Mormon missionaries walking up to the Steinman house a little before 8pm Thinking nothing of it. Why would you? The neighbor shifted her attention elsewhere and didn't think about it until the detectives brought it up. Because again, you wouldn't think twice about that.

[Alaina]

And usually Mormon missionaries I think are younger teens, early 20s, they're dressed nicely.

[Ash]

And all that shit. So while detectives in Concord are struggling to make any progress on the disappearance of Ivan and Annette Steinman, detectives 50 miles away in Marin county were about to embark upon a very similarly strange and baffling case as well. On the morning of August 3rd, the Marin County Sheriff's Office received a call from a Woodacre resident talking about gunshots in the house across the street.

[Alaina]

Oh, shit.

[Ash]

When deputies arrived at the house, they were directed to a small studio apartment located just behind the house. Inside the apartment they found the bodies of 45 year old Jennifer Valerian and her 54 year old boyfriend, James Gamble.

[Alaina]

Oh, wow.

[Ash]

Both were nude, Jennifer still in bed and James on the floor beside the bed. And both had been shot to death with a 9 millimeter handgun.

[Alaina]

Damn.

[Ash]

A quick look around the apartment indicated that the murders had not been committed during a robbery. There was no signs of struggle. It didn't appear anything of noteworthy was taken. It also didn't appear like the killer had gone through anybody's belongings. Also, the apartment would have been a less than ideal target for a robbery as well because it was surrounded by larger homes, presumably owned by people much wealthier. Yeah, and it was also tucked away from the road behind the main house. Huh. That meant whoever had killed Jennifer and James would have had to know the studio apartment was even there in the first place. Right. This was particularly Telling, since the apartment was actually that of Jennifer's daughter, Selina.

[Alaina]

Oh.

[Ash]

Who was out of town when the murders were committed. Curious now. Unfortunately for investigators, the scene was virtually devoid of evidence or leads. They had the shell casings from the 9 millimeter used in the murder, but otherwise, the killer left nothing. A canvas of the neighborhood was also pretty discouraging. The neighbor who called in the report told detectives they'd heard six to eight shots around 5am followed by, a short time later, the sound of a car speeding away from the apartment. But they only heard those things. They didn't see anything. The murders came as a shock to the residents of Woodacre, not only because Jennifer and Jim were well known locally, but also because Jennifer was somewhat well known nationally.

[Alaina]

Oh.

[Ash]

She was the one time wife of blues musician Elvin Bishop.

[Alaina]

Oh.

[Ash]

In a press conference the following day, Undersheriff Dennis Finnegan told reporters the couple didn't appear to have any enemies. And in fact, they seem to be kind of beloved members of the community. Finnegan said, we're still working on a motive. It doesn't appear to be a robbery or a random type of thing.

[Alaina]

No.

[Ash]

Now, the case took an even more troubling turn the following day when investigators couldn't reach Jennifer's daughter, Selena.

[Alaina]

Uh oh.

[Ash]

From interviews with Selena's friends and co workers, they learned that her mother had been staying at Selena's apartment while she was away on a camping trip in Yosemite.

[Alaina]

Okay.

[Ash]

But no one had heard from her since she'd left a week earlier, according to her friends. This is completely out of character for her to not return. Captain Tom McMans told a report of this. Now, the Marin County Sheriff's Office put out a missing person alert for Selina Bishop and began speaking to her friends to learn more about her life. Like, what's going on here. By all accounts, Selina Bishop was a kind, sweet, and somewhat naive young woman without a single enemy to speak of. Raised by her mother since her parents were divorced. I think they divorced when she was like 10 years old.

[Alaina]

Okay.

[Ash]

They had a super strong bond. And now in adulthood, they had a close relationship as, like, friends. Now, like, you know, you get to go into that. According to those close to her, Selena had recently found work as a server in her local restaurant. And that provided her the income to move out on her to her own apartment, which was the studio where the bodies of Jennifer and Jim were found. Around that time, Selena had also begun dating someone new, a man friends had heard her refer to only as Jordan.

[Cody]

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[Mr. Ballin]

It'S Mr. Ballin here and I am so excited to tell you all about a podcast from Ballin Studios called Declassified Mysteries and it's hosted by the incredible Luke Lamanna. From COVID government experiments to bizarre assassination attempts, redacted dives deep into the astonishing true stories of uncovered secrets, lies and deception within the world's most powerful institutions. Stories like the mind bending truth behind Operation Paperclips where former Nazi scientists were smuggled into America to advance US Technology and intelligence during the Cold War. Or the shocking story of Charles Manson and the CIA revealing how a notorious cult leader might have been entangled in a web of covert operations. Trust me when I tell you the stories are real and the secrets are shocking. Be sure to follow Declassified Mysteries with Luke Lamanna on the Wondry app or wherever else you get your podcasts. You can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery in the Wondery app or on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.

[Ash]

According to one of Jennifer's closest friends, Selena's mother was super desperate to meet this Jordan, obviously. Yeah, it's her daughter and they're very close, right? But Selena Was like, reluctant to introduce them. Apparently it had only been a few months since they had started dating. She wasn't sure, but not content with that response.

[Alaina]

I'm like, a few months. 25 years ago was like years in today's. Today's world of dating, it's true.

[Ash]

But her mother, Jennifer, was not content with that response. So she started stopping by her daughter's apartment on a downs, just hoping to catch him there Queen. And be like, oh, here I am. I guess we'll just meet.

[Alaina]

Oh, gee. Yeah, I love that.

[Ash]

And honestly, it paid off because eventually she stopped by and was introduced to Jordan.

[Cody]

Nice.

[Alaina]

You wanna know who your daughter's dated? I get it.

[Ash]

Yeah. Of course, it's unclear what it was precisely about Jordan that left Jennifer so unimpressed. A gut feeling. But it was clear to friends that she had been expecting something different.

[Alaina]

Oh, okay.

[Ash]

And it turned out her impression of him didn't get any better in the days that followed their introduction. According to Jennifer's friend, Selina's mother had developed some concerns about this guy after learning some more stuff about him. Jordan had told Selena he was still married, but he was going to get a divorce. Which is like, oh. He claimed he was about to inherit a large sum of money.

[Alaina]

Fake.

[Ash]

And he didn't want his soon to be ex wife to know about that money so she would get half of it messed up. So he asked Selena to open an account in her name where they could hide the money.

[Alaina]

Baby, no.

[Ash]

And she agreed. No. No. Someone asked you to do that? No.

[Alaina]

But you're listening to this episode. If somebody ever asks you to do that. No. Run.

[Ash]

It's a no. Leave. When they learned about the bank account Selena opened on her boyfriend's behalf, investigators became concerned that what they had been investigating as a missing person case might actually be something far more nefarious. Those suspicions only grew when, after talking to some of Selena's co workers, they learned that it was Jordan who had told them Selena was going away to Yosemite.

[Alaina]

Oh, no.

[Ash]

Yeah. One of them said so. McMahon had said, supposedly he is the last person who may have seen Selina Bishop. And we want to know when and where that was.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

The main problem investigators faced was while they had a first name for Selena's boyfriend, no one seemed to know or had ever heard his last name.

[Alaina]

And Jordan is a pretty common name.

[Ash]

Yeah. What they did know, though, was that Selena had a pager that she frequently used and it had been found among her things at work.

[Alaina]

Okay.

[Ash]

The pager was turned over to investigators who began combing through the numbers associated with incoming calls. To their surprise, none of the phone numbers were listed under anyone by the name of Jordan.

[Alaina]

So he's using a fake name.

[Ash]

But there was a number that frequent that appeared frequently on the list, and it was someone named Glenn Taylor Helzer, not Jordan. When detectives did a background check on Helzer, they found no criminal record or anything else that would be considered a red flag.

[Alaina]

Okay.

[Ash]

But there was something that did jump out to investigators. Helzer lived with his brother Justin, who had recently purchased and registered a 9 millimeter handgun.

[Alaina]

I knew it.

[Ash]

The same caliber used in the shooting of Jennifer and James.

[Alaina]

Knew it.

[Ash]

Now, when investigators started digging into the backgrounds of Taylor and Justin Helzer, nothing about the two guys fit the pattern of a criminal, much less a murderer. Glenn Taylor helzer was born July 26, 1970 to Jerry and Karma Helzer in Lansing, Michigan.

[Alaina]

He's a cancer.

[Ash]

Not long after Taylor's birth, they moved to a town, the town of Pacheco, California, in Contra Costa county, where their second son, Justin was born. The last of the three Helzer children.

[Alaina]

Wait, he's a Leo? Sorry, like, just kidding.

[Ash]

From the moment he entered the world, Taylor was the center of his parents life. Taylor was incredibly bright, very charming. He had this, like, natural leadership quality about him. It very much drew people into him.

[Alaina]

Leo.

[Ash]

As devout members of the Mormon church, Jerry and Carma were proud of. More proud of their eldest son's engagement with the faith.

[Alaina]

The Mormon Church, you say?

[Ash]

Yeah, I don't know if you caught that.

[Alaina]

Ding, ding, ding.

[Ash]

But they really liked that he was so involved in the Mormon faith and that he could quote large parts of scripture by the time he was 12 years old.

[Alaina]

Cool. Neat, right?

[Ash]

O yeah. Taylor's cousin Charney Hoffman said, we lived with them for some time when I was young. I absolutely loved him. He was very influential in my life and lots of other people's lives. Taylor was very accepting, regardless of the fact that that's not always the case with people who are very religious. Justin Helzer was two years younger than his brother and almost 180 degrees his opposite. So Taylor was outgoing, had that way of drawing people in. Justin was very shy, often aloof, especially when it came to people he didn't know. That's not to suggest that he was like a dick or like unkind at all or like off putting in any way. He's very quiet, very reserved, and he didn't have like any of the confidence that it Seemed Taylor just exuded.

[Alaina]

Okay.

[Ash]

When people would recall Justin, they almost always described him as living in his brother's rather large shadow.

[Alaina]

That's really sad.

[Ash]

Yeah. Author Robert Scott wrote, whereas Taylor seemed to have countless friends in school, both male and female, Justin had almost none. He was painfully shy around girls and tried not to stick out in class. Now, when the boys were teens, they went to live with Karma's father. So their grandfather, Doyle Sorenson, a man whose Mormon faith was far more rigid than Karmas.

[Alaina]

Doyle Sorensen is a storybook writer.

[Ash]

In fact, even some of the most fundamentalist Mormon followers considered his beliefs to be on the fringes of the faith.

[Alaina]

Faith really.

[Ash]

Particularly with regard on hearing the word of God. On one occasion, Doyle claimed. I don't this for some reason that the optics of this just made me giggle. Tell me what I have to say.

[Alaina]

Tell me.

[Ash]

Doyle claimed that he'd seen Jesus Christ on his front lawn.

[Alaina]

No, that's.

[Ash]

I just like, why is he on the front lawn?

[Alaina]

That's funny.

[Ash]

That's like. That's just what I gotta ask.

[Alaina]

If I wake up and see Jesus Christ on my front lawn, I'm gonna go take a cold show shower.

[Ash]

That's what I'm saying. Like, damn. Like you got like, you gotta find some kind of Lev. Seeing Jesus Christ on the front lawn is definitely a point of levity for me.

[Alaina]

Did he do acid the night before? Like, what?

[Ash]

Well, and this is what's even crazier. So it wasn't just a vision. Like it's was not a vision. He saw him as a real corporal be being on his front lawn. And what. What's he. What's even wilder is like he didn't just bop in and bop out.

[Alaina]

Jesus.

[Ash]

Yeah. He's several hours. He stood on that front lawn.

[Alaina]

JC is JC Jesus Christ is just chilling.

[Ash]

He's just chilling. And then he disappeared. Okay.

[Alaina]

Like. Like poof or like just like walked away?

[Ash]

I don't know. I don't know that. I can't. I can't.

[Alaina]

You don't know how J.C. goes.

[Ash]

I can't speak to that. But he. He was hanging out on the front lawn for a couple hours. Cometh.

[Alaina]

And he go with.

[Ash]

He did come with and he did Goethe. Now obviously, like, we can be like, oh my God, that's funny that he saw Jesus Christ on his front lawn one day. But then it becomes not funny when he has young impressionable minds that are going to be probably terrified and believe this.

[Alaina]

Can you imagine if papa walked in a room and told us Jesus Christ was on the front lawn. I'd be like, well, it's time to call someone. Well, I don't know what we do here.

[Ash]

What do you do? I don't know what the. I don't know what the answer to that is.

[Alaina]

You gotta go to the hospital. Okay, cool. You gotta go to the hospital. Neat. Neat, neat.

[Ash]

But to the young and impressionable, Taylor Doyle became a significant influence.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Because remember, he's. He's well versed in Mormon faith shenanigans. So he.

[Alaina]

And he.

[Ash]

He can speak the scripture from memory. He can. Oh, yeah, he can do, like. So he's in this, like, Taylor's really. Like. So this guy is now influencing him on a daily basis.

[Alaina]

It's his grandpa.

[Ash]

Yeah. He admired his grandfather's commitment to their faith and his spirituality, which. That's okay. Sure. Like, you can admire someone's like, you know, if you're in that. Absolutely. And he even admired it when it was dismissed or questioned by others, which, you know, that's fine.

[Alaina]

Okay.

[Ash]

And that said, according to Robert Scott, the rigidity of their faith in the high standards set by his grandfather were also a very deep source of anxiety for Taylor. That was the dark part of this. It's fine to admire someone who. If you have faith or you have spirituality and someone you know has even more, you can see it's okay to admire them for that. Yeah. It's when it becomes a source of anxiety that you have these standards set for you that you can't possibly reach, especially as a kid or a teen. So Scott wrote, Taylor had problems living up to these Mormon ideals. He felt guilty after. After what he considered sinning, especially if he masturbated. Consumed with guilt, he tried committing suicide at one point. Oh, God, that's a quote.

[Alaina]

That's awful.

[Ash]

Although it would be many more years before Taylor was formally diagnosed with a mental illness, it was around this time that some members of his family and community did start to notice some strange behavior. So psychiatrist Dr. Douglas Tucker wrote in an assessment, Taylor, as early as 14, was experiencing ideas that were unusual and inappropriate. He was receiving audible messages. By the age of 14, Taylor was told he had a gift of revelation. But he didn't know if the messages he was receiving were from God or Satan. Oh, that's a lot for a kid to handle, Dan.

[Alaina]

That's very sad.

[Ash]

That's a lot to put on a kid. When he was 17 and still ineligible to enlist, Taylor joined the National Guard. It's unclear whether this was achieved with the permission of his parents or as a result of poor processing on the part of the Guard. But either way, he was accepted into the National Guard and sent to Texas for his initial training period. As is often the case with young people who have been raised in pretty sheltered communities, the transition from a strict Mormon community to a largely secular and adult world of the National Guard was a bit of a culture shock. Yeah, I'm sure. Taken aback by all the swearing, drinking and sexual activity among his fellow recruits, Taylor initially tried to preach to them in the hope that his words might convert some of them or at least help them see the folly of their ways. Some found his words interesting, you know, like, let's just see what he has to say. Sure. But most of them were just like, you're being a little bit zealous here. Like, let's tone it down.

[Alaina]

You're being the narcissist.

[Kristen Thorne]

Last year long crime brought you the trial that captivated the nation. She's accused of hitting her boyfriend, Boston police officer John o' Keefe, with her car. Karen Reed is arrested and charged with second degree murder. The six week trial resulted in anything but resolution.

[Ash]

We continue to find ourselves at an impasse. I'm declaring a mistrial in this case.

[Kristen Thorne]

But now the case is back in the spotlight and one question still lingers. Did Karen Reed kill John o' Keefe?

[Alaina]

The evidence is overwhelming that Karen Reed is innocent.

[Ash]

How does it feel to be a cop killer?

[Alaina]

Karen?

[Kristen Thorne]

I'm Kristen Thorne, investigative reporter with Law and Crime and host of the podcast the Retrial. This isn't just a retrial. It's a second chance at the truth.

[Ash]

I have nothing to hide.

[Kristen Thorne]

My life is in the balance and it shouldn't be.

[Experian Ad]

I just want people to go back.

[Cody]

To who the victim is in this.

[Alaina]

It's not her.

[Kristen Thorne]

Listen to episodes of Karen the Retrial exclusively and ad free on Wondery.

[Ash]

Now. Once he finished his training with the National Guard and returned home, Taylor decided to take the first step into adulthood that almost all young Mormon men take by going on a mission. Yeah, Jack Barlow, There you go. In the LDS faith, young men mark their transition from child to adult by leaving home to another part of the country or even another part of the world to preach their values and fundamentals of their beliefs to other people.

[Alaina]

Just not on my door.

[Ash]

No, I actually told some to leave the other day.

[Alaina]

That's true. And then we looked at really good no soliciting signs.

[Ash]

It's a no thank you for me. Until very recently, this process meant the individuals would be Cut off from their families and their home cultures for long stretches of time until the mission came to an end and they returned home.

[Alaina]

I think they're typically like two years.

[Ash]

Are they really?

[Alaina]

I think at least the one Jack Barlow went on.

[Ash]

There you go.

[Alaina]

That's Housewives of Salt Lake City, in case you were wondering.

[Ash]

I was. I. I knew Barlow was one of those.

[Alaina]

Yes, baby gorgeous. Well, baby gorgeous as Henry. But I digress.

[Ash]

Now, in Taylor's case, he was sent to Brazil to serve his mission. In his diary. There you go. In his diary, Taylor wrote, when I arrived, I felt equal parts excited and overwhelmed. Excited simply because I was anxious to serve on a mission, but nervous because you're a little out of your element. It's a new experience, and you're a long way from home. Despite his apprehension, Taylor settled in pretty quickly to his new environment and found that, like he had been back in California, he was very popular with the other young men serving their missions in Brazil. One missionary later said, I very much enjoyed working with him. He seemed to have a genuine care for the people. I felt that he was particularly effective in teaching. People seemed to like him, and he had a very, very capable manner about him. Cool. It was true that Taylor found some success in Brazil, but at the same time, his symptoms of his mental illness appeared to have worsened during this period. Some people described his preaching interpretation of scripture as manic, often going off on tangents. According to fellow missionary Jonathan Taylor, he would. Trying to discern thoughts beyond the surface of meaning is what he would do. He would also go several nights without sleeping, staying up all night to read from the Book of Mormon and analyze the text. And Jonathan Taylor, that fellow missionary, said it wasn't long before others started noticing a difference in Taylor's demeanor. Yeah, Jonathan said the changes in Taylor were fairly abrupt. Some of the conclusions and beliefs he began to draw, he'd state them more emphatically. He sensed he had been given additional inspiration to kind of understand how the tenants of the faith connected. So I think he's feeling a little more like I am the Word of God, kind of. He's treading close to those waters.

[Alaina]

He was JC on the lawn.

[Ash]

Exactly. Now becoming more steadfast and zealous. At this point in, his beliefs weren't the only thing that the other missionaries were finding off putting. In additional. In addition to his righteous certainty, Taylor's beliefs and worldview had taken a little bit of a darker tone. Jonathan recalls Helzer dwelled upon certain cataclysmic events in the Latter days, he would talk about his opinion that there would be the elimination of technology, which is like that. When you hear it like that, you're like, that just sounds like regular theorizing.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

No. In addition to his increasingly though apocalyptic vision of the future, I think it's when it treads into that manic territory of doomsday, like prepare for the worst. Yeah. Taylor had also become increasingly and eventually verbally frustrated with the mission's leadership. In Taylor's eyes, the mission president was an ineffective leader who lacked the spiritual fortitude to lead them.

[Alaina]

Oh.

[Ash]

Now, according to Jonathan Taylor, that fellow missionary, if there were things that he didn't feel were accurate or he didn't agree with them, he kind of dismissed them by saying the church leaders either knew the truth and weren't revealing it or they didn't know the truth and therefore he was not accountable to them.

[Alaina]

Oh, he's above the church.

[Ash]

He's going rogue, folks. Yeah. Upon returning home from his mission, he settled back to life in California. And in 1993, he married his high school girlfriend, Ann, much to the disappointment of his brother Justin, who was away on his own mission when the wedding took place.

[Alaina]

Aw, that's really sad.

[Ash]

I know.

[Alaina]

You can't have a wedding without your brother.

[Ash]

Anne told a reporter Justin was hurt that Taylor never consulted him about getting married. As far as Justin saw it, getting married was a major decision and he couldn't understand why his brother wouldn't at least wait six months until Justin returned so he could go to the wedding.

[Alaina]

Yeah. All that actually hurts my heart.

[Ash]

Yeah. As it turned out, it might have been wise for Taylor and Ann to wait a little longer before getting married.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

According to Ann, the marriage started to go bad not very long after they returned home from the honeymoon.

[Alaina]

Oh, that's terrible.

[Ash]

They argued all the time and Anne was endlessly frustrated with the fact that everything always had to be Taylor's way. She said Taylor had an unrealistic view of the world. He had never been able to watch television at his parents home. So in our home for the first time, he could watch cable television. He would stay up all night and then have to be at work by 6am he couldn't pull himself away.

[Alaina]

Oh, that's scary.

[Ash]

It's like when you scary. Don't let a kid eat any sugar and then they get to go to a friend's house or like a birthday party and they just gorge themselves on. Wasn't just cable television that Taylor had become fixated with. It was everything that he was experiencing for the first time, having grown up in a very strict religious household, Taylor and his siblings had been denied many of the things most American children experience pretty regularly. You know, sweets, junk food, video games, television. So when he was finally able to access those things as an adult, he had no moderation, could not moderate what he was doing. Like, it was just fully full throttle. According to Robert Scott, the one thing Taylor wanted more than anything else was sex. Like he saw on porno videos, which is not real. He had no sex education and no sexual experience. So he didn't seem to understand that what he saw in porn films was a carefully orchestrated fantasy and not at all similar to what relatively ordinary, sexual, you know, active adults experience.

[Alaina]

See, in my opinion, that's why you have to talk about it.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

Earlier.

[Ash]

Because then that's the first thing that he sees.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Scott wrote he begged his wife for the things he saw, but Anne was not comfortable doing some of the things depicted on those videos.

[Alaina]

Yeah, porn's crazy. Yeah, porn goes wild.

[Ash]

In retrospect, Anne blames many of Taylor's problems and shortcomings on his parents, particularly his mother, Karma. As far as she could tell, Jerry Helzer was a laid back, nice guy, while his wife was the more intense of the two, ruling over the family with a religious fervor she'd learned from her father.

[Alaina]

Father, I was wondering. Yeah.

[Ash]

Karma treated Taylor as he was the golden child. He could do no wrong. He was deserving of everything he wanted.

[Alaina]

That's so.

[Ash]

And Taylor internalized those messages, and then he carried them into adulthood.

[Alaina]

Yeah. That's why he thinks he's a prophet.

[Ash]

And it made him very difficult. It made him difficult to be around, and it made difficult for him to interact with people who didn't immediately give in to his literal every whim and demand.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Not long after their wedding, Ann's uncle managed to get Taylor a job with financial investment firm Morgan Stanley.

[Alaina]

Oh, shit.

[Ash]

I don't know if you remember in the beginning, but Ivan and Annette were able to save so much money because they worked with a young financial advisor at Morgan Stanley.

[Alaina]

The way that you just took this shit full circle, I just want to.

[Ash]

Put that out there. Despite having taken only one semester of college courses and having no experience in financial management, he took to the work pretty easily and was. He was a success like he did. Well, his confidence, his ability to charm people made him popular with clients and pretty fearless when it came to making cold calls and pitching their services. So found his niche.

[Alaina]

I mean, being a missionary, I'm sure It was probably easier for him to make those cold calls.

[Ash]

Yeah. He's used to doing stuff. Yeah. Taylor's personal and professional success lasted a few years. But by the mid to late 1990s, things started to change at work. His boss began noticing that Taylor had taken up smoking and was spending a lot of time in the evening going out to clubs and bars. He had also let his appearance and hygiene slip more and more as the days went by. He grew his hair long. He didn't do anything to make it presentable, and most important, he was becoming unreliable. By the summer of 1996, Ann had also begun to notice these changes in Taylor, what he described as testing out the, quote, sinning side of life. Oh. From what Ann could tell, Taylor felt he had been let down by the Mormon Church and led into a life he didn't want and felt he was superior to.

[Alaina]

Okay.

[Ash]

A few months later, Taylor and Ann's marriage completely fell apart, and she filed for divorce. Taylor continued to just fall apart, essentially, in the months and years that followed. And in 1998, he was let go from his job at Morgan Stanley.

[Alaina]

Oh, no.

[Ash]

No longer able to maintain a job, Taylor began the process of applying for Social Security disability, which required him to be evaluated by a psychiatrist. On September 1, 1998, Taylor was referred to an intensive outpatient program for individuals whose symptoms and mental illness severely impair their functioning and requires multiple contacts with a social worker and. Or a psychiatric treatment team.

[Alaina]

Okay.

[Ash]

Which is pretty intense.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

It was during the intake process for that program that Taylor was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, type one with manic features. This diagnosis and the need for ongoing intensive treatment qualified Taylor for Social Security disability payments.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And he was approved in 1998. A year later, Taylor excommunicated from the morbid church for his drug use and a lifestyle that was increasingly out of step with the teachings of the church.

[Alaina]

Oh, so they, like, kicked him out?

[Ash]

Yeah, he was excommunicated. Damn. And that's where we're gonna leave you, because for part two, we're gonna pick back up where we began.

[Alaina]

Okay.

[Ash]

But I wanted to make sure you got a full picture of who Taylor is.

[Cody]

I think we have that picture.

[Ash]

And what's going on here.

[Alaina]

Yeah. My wheels are turning upstairs, and I.

[Ash]

Want you to chew on that for a minute, and then part two will take you to the. Take you to the thunder.

[Alaina]

Yeah, the thunder.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

Okay.

[Ash]

The thunder.

[Alaina]

Well, I guess with that being said, we hope you keep listening, and we hope you keep it weird, but not so weird that you see JCJC on your front lawn. Hey.

[Ash]

Sam.

[Cody]

If you like morbid, you can listen early and ad free right.

[Alaina]

Now by joining Wondery plus in the.

[Cody]

Wondery app or on Apple Podcast Prime.

[Alaina]

Members can listen ad free on Amazon Music.

[Cody]

Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.

[Narrator]

Today is the worst day of Abby's life. The 17 year old cradles her newborn son in her arms.

[Ash]

They all saw how much I loved him. They didn't have to take him from me.

[Narrator]

Between 1945 and the early 1970s, families shipped their pregnant teenagers teenage daughters to maternity homes and forced them to secretly place their babies for adoption in hidden corners across America. It's still happening. My parents had me locked up in.

[Alaina]

The godparent home against my will.

[Narrator]

They worked with them to manipulate me.

[Alaina]

And to steal my son away from me.

[Narrator]

The godparent home is the brainchild of controversial preacher Jerry Falwell, the father of the modern evil evangelical right and the founder of Liberty University, where powerful men, emboldened by their faith, determine who gets to be a parent and who must give their child away. Follow Liberty Lost on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.