September Bonus Episode: Unknown Number: The High School Catfish

Summary

Morbid Podcast – September Bonus Episode: Unknown Number: The High School Catfish

Hosts: Ash Kelley & Alaina Urquhart
Date: September 12, 2025
Platform: SiriusXM Podcasts+

Episode Overview

This special bonus episode is a deep-dive discussion and dissection of the documentary Unknown Number: The High School Catfish, a recent Netflix release focused on a harrowing catfishing and psychological abuse incident in a small Michigan town. Ash and Alaina bring their signature blend of dark humor and insight to unpack the twists, emotional trauma, and far-reaching impact of the case—one that revolves around years of anonymous, abusive texting targeting two teenagers…and an unthinkable perpetrator.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Beale City, Michigan and the Players (03:58–05:51)

• Beale City is a small, close-knit community where “everyone knows everyone,” fostering both support and the potential for insularity.
• The central figures are Lauren and Owen, childhood sweethearts whose families are intertwined—moms Jill (Owen’s) and Kendra (Lauren’s) are close friends.
• The school includes all grades (pre-K to 12) in one building—“Wily to me. Horrifying.” – Alaina (04:40)

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2. The Harassment Begins: Creepy Text Messages (06:15–12:46)

• In 2020, the harassment starts: Lauren receives a text suggesting Owen doesn’t like her, and both are “DTF” (down to fuck) [06:15].
  • Shocking due to the kids’ young age—“Nobody’s DTF at 12.” – Alaina (07:23)
• The texts escalate in both frequency and cruelty, including relentless body shaming and deeply personal attacks:
  • Notable Quote: “Don’t wear effin leggings. No one wants to see your anorexic ass like that.” (08:37)
  • Alaina and Ashe reflect on body image issues and the widespread problem of girls growing up hyper-aware and critical of themselves.
  • “Young girls so early, learn to be their biggest critics…then they grow up immediately becoming critics of each other.” – Ashe (09:41)
• The abuse covers over 20 months, with brief lulls, and grows increasingly virulent and sexual.

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3. The Toll on Teenagers (12:10–16:46)

• Messages tell Lauren she’s “worthless,” “mean nothing,” and to kill herself.
• The harasser (or harassers?) appear to have intimate inside knowledge—referencing sports performance, outfits, and real-time activities.
• Parents and school officials, including the superintendent and principal, attempt to intervene through surveillance and investigation but are limited in their success.
• The school community begins to fracture as suspicion breeds paranoia and isolation.

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4. False Leads and Accusations (28:18–34:37)

• When abusive texts reference Chloe Wilson’s basketball score, suspicion shifts to Chloe (perceived as a bully with cop connections via her father).
• Chloe’s privacy is invaded as her phone is “dubbed” (forensically examined), but she is cleared—“Kudos to them, because that’s such an invasion of privacy.” – Ashe (31:23)

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5. Family Fallout & Widening Trauma (33:00–41:24)

• The investigation next targets Owen’s cousin Adriana, who, despite being exonerated, is left traumatized (“has PTSD now”).
• Family dynamics in Lauren’s household deteriorate under the strain—parents Kendra and Sean argue, Lauren sobs daily, and her self-esteem is devastated.
• Both hosts connect personally to the experience of bullying and the long-term effects it can have, especially during the formative years.

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6. The Big Reveal: The Mother as the Catfish (42:55–46:12)

• After a long investigation involving the FBI and data warrants, the true perpetrator is unmasked: Lauren’s own mother, Kendra.

• Notable “Holy Shit” Moment:

  • “For a year and a half, these text messages were coming from Lauren’s mother, Kendra.” – Ashe (43:19)

• The reaction is pure shock and disbelief from everyone, including law enforcement and the family:

  • “A mom could never do that to their child.” – Alaina (43:56)

• Bodycam footage reveals Kendra barely tries to deny her involvement, showing chilling calm: “No, nothing like that.” (45:04)

• The hosts are appalled by her demeanor and the monstrousness of the betrayal:

  • “That is the mindf*** of the century.” – Alaina (61:31)
  • “She should be on a list, in my opinion.” – Ashe (47:49)

• The emotional and psychological fallout is severe, especially for Lauren, who is seen dissociating and unable to process the revelation in the moment.

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7. Patterns of Abuse and Aftermath (51:34–67:15)

• Kendra had spent much of the harassment period unemployed, lying to her husband, and devoting herself to the campaign of abuse.
• She even lied about having a job, causing the family financial damage [63:36].
• The nature of the messages—sexually explicit, deeply degrading, and obsessive—leads both hosts to question whether Kendra was also infatuated with Owen (“allegedly, in my opinion” – Alaina, 73:23).
  • Documented: explicit texts, doctored photos, physical stalking.
• The hosts argue the documentary did not fully address the level of sexual harassment inflicted on Owen by Kendra.
• There’s debate about whether Kendra’s motive was simply “digital Munchausen’s” or something even darker.
• Legally, Kendra receives a sentence of only 19 months—less time than the abuse lasted—much to the hosts’ disgust.

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8. Reflection on Healing, Victim Impact, and Systemic Failure (70:51–74:11)

• Lauren, now in her father’s custody, is remarkable for her resilience and kindness.
• The hosts highlight how both Lauren and Owen will live with the scars of this abuse for years, and criticize the lack of adequate legal consequences for Kendra—especially relating to sexual misconduct.
• Quote from Owen’s victim statement: “You might move on, but I won’t.” (72:44)
• Final comments praise Lauren and Owen’s courage and hope they’re on a better path—while saving no sympathy for Kendra.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 07:23 | Alaina | “Nobody’s DTF at 12. Nobody should be saying DTF at 12.” | | 09:41 | Ashe | “Young girls so early, learn to be their biggest critics…then they grow up immediately becoming critics of each other.” | | 20:22 | Alaina | “If they’re only telling their close friends who those numbers are and you’re approving them, boom, you’re in. It’s gotta be one of the close friends.” | | 28:36 | Alaina | “She had somewhat of a reputation for being a bully at the school…” | | 31:38 | Alaina | “One of the main things you should be teaching your kid is that their privacy...they have a right to privacy.” | | 43:19 | Ashe | “For a year and a half, these text messages were coming from Lauren’s mother, Kendra.” | | 47:49 | Ashe | “She should be on a list, in my opinion.” | | 61:31 | Alaina | “That is the mindf*** of the century.” | | 72:44 | Alaina (quoting Owen) | “You might move on, but I won’t.” |

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:58 – 05:51 – Introduction to Beale City & the key families
• 06:15 – 12:46 – Onset & escalation of anonymous text harassment
• 15:00 – 16:46 – Nature & severity of sexualized messages
• 28:18 – 34:37 – Community suspicion: Chloe and Adriana accused
• 42:55 – 46:12 – The reveal: Kendra, Lauren’s own mom, is the perpetrator
• 51:34 – 67:15 – Aftermath: family fallout, Kendra’s lies, and legal consequences
• 70:51 – End – Reflections, victim impact, and cultural commentary

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Structural Notes

• Ash and Alaina’s blend of sensitivity and irreverence brings difficult topics to light without minimizing their seriousness.
• The episode offers both a chronological recap and raw emotional analysis—especially the personal and systemic failures evident in the case.
• The hosts revisit their own experiences with bullying, giving the episode an empathetic and conversational tone.

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Takeaways for the Uninitiated

• Unknown Number: The High School Catfish documents a nearly two-year campaign of harassment against teens Lauren and Owen, which devastates a community and destroys relationships—while the perpetrator turns out to be Lauren’s own mother, hiding behind layers of deception, technology, and psychological projection.
• Ash and Alaina use humor, outrage, and empathy to process the impact—not just as a true crime tale, but as a cautionary story about digital abuse, parental betrayal, and the lingering effects of trauma on young people.

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Final Thoughts

• The hosts predict more coverage of the case in popular media, referencing both a Lifetime adaptation (Mommy Meanest) and TikTok virality.
• They reiterate their admiration for the victims’ resilience: “I hope everyone else is thriving and doing well and healing in this story, except for Kendra. I don’t give a f*** about Kendra.” – Alaina (74:35)

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For listeners seeking a cathartic, thought-provoking review of a modern cautionary tale, this bonus episode is both a sensitive and searing analysis, filled with memorable moments, honest reflection, and the hosts’ inimitable weirdness.

Transcript

[Alaina]

Okay.

[Ashe]

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[Alaina]

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[Ashe]

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[Alaina]

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[Ashe]

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[Alaina]

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[Ashe]

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[Ashe]

Hey, weirdos. I'm Ashe.

[Alaina]

And I'm Alaina.

[Ashe]

And this is a bonus episode.

[Alaina]

It's a bonus episode.

[Ashe]

And that is our new intro.

[Alaina]

Yeah, that's the thing.

[Ashe]

Let's not. We're gonna workshop it.

[Alaina]

Yeah. We're gonna think of something fun as an intro for bonus episodes. You've probably heard it right now.

[Ashe]

Yeah, you already.

[Alaina]

You already heard it. Perhaps.

[Ashe]

Yeah. We need some good music. And hopefully you just heard some.

[Alaina]

But if you didn't, if you. Or if you heard good music but it's the same theme song as regular morbid, then we're still thinking on it, you know, so just bear with us.

[Ashe]

We're working on it.

[Alaina]

We're Working on it.

[Ashe]

All right, brothers, so today we are here to talk to you for our very first ever bonus episode on SiriusXM.

[Alaina]

This is so exciting.

[Ashe]

I just took one sip of. Actually, we had to pause for a second to make sure that the recording was, like, working the intro. And then now one sip of coffee. I'm a change.

[Alaina]

Yeah, the energy has shifted. Just in about five minutes.

[Ashe]

I am Lorelai Gilmore. Actually. You are Lorelei Gilmore.

[Alaina]

Yeah. And I'm Rory. Yeah, but only sometimes. Yeah, like in. Only in some ways, pretty much only.

[Ashe]

When we have coffee. Coffee, coffee.

[Alaina]

Exactly. So.

[Ashe]

So we're going to be talking today about unknown number. The high school catfish, honey. Okay, wait. Before you say anything else, there are going to be spoilers. Spoiler, spoilers, spoilers. If you don't want to be spoiled, go watch it now and then listen, my brother in Christ, if you listen.

[Alaina]

To it first, you will be spoiled, and that won't be our fault.

[Ashe]

It's not my fault if past this point you get a spoiler, because we.

[Alaina]

Are going to talk about it, and we are going to talk about all of it.

[Ashe]

All right, so let's get into it.

[Alaina]

Let's do this. And we're gonna. We're gonna, like, do it so we don't reveal the twist until.

[Ashe]

Until the twist is revealed.

[Alaina]

Exactly. Okay.

[Ashe]

So we're in Beale City, Michigan. It's a. It's like central Michigan. It's a super tiny town. It seems like everybody knows everybody. It also seems like people are, like lifelong residents.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

And we. So we watched the documentary, and then we also found a cut article written by Lauren Smiley that gave, like, a. And she was saying, like, even a lot of these parents are lifelong residents of Beale. And, like, if you're not a lifelong resident, you do feel somewhat of an outsider.

[Alaina]

That makes sense. And isn't it like the. The school is like preschool to 12th grade.

[Ashe]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

All in the same building.

[Ashe]

Yes.

[Alaina]

Which to this, it's my opinion.

[Ashe]

It's my opinion.

[Alaina]

That's wily to me. Like, that is horrifying to me.

[Ashe]

Bonkers.

[Alaina]

Yeah. I can't imagine my kindergartner in the same school as a 12th grader.

[Ashe]

That's just not for me. But I guess each class of kids, like, is 60 kids.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

So they can all just fit in.

[Alaina]

One building, which is nuts. No, it makes sense for the. What it is.

[Ashe]

Yeah. But I completely agree with you. No, it is scary. So we start off the film, and we started off with a threat. It says all real threat with a literal code 10 threat. Code red. All the texts in this film are real. It says.

[Alaina]

And I said, and you'll know. You'll find out why that's a threat very shortly. Quickly.

[Ashe]

So we're introduced to Lauren and Owen. They started dating when they were like 12. And I think they were probably like around like seventh grade. And it's funny because when I was reading the cut article, it turned out Owen's parents also started dating in seventh grade.

[Alaina]

That's crazy. Yeah.

[Ashe]

So their families ended up becoming good friends, especially their moms, Jill and Kendra. Jill is Owen's mom and Kendra's Lauren's mom. So they like, it's. It all seemed really cute. Like.

[Alaina]

Yeah, you know, cute, small community. Yeah, everyone supports each other. Exactly.

[Ashe]

So October 2020 rolls around and this girl Chloe Wilson's family always has this big Halloween party.

[Alaina]

Sounds pretty sick.

[Ashe]

It sounds like a sick ass Halloween party.

[Alaina]

It's like a haunted corn maze or some.

[Ashe]

Yeah, moderately exclusive, evidently. I mean, Lauren was not invited, but Owen was.

[Alaina]

Oh, so.

[Ashe]

So Owen ends up inviting Lauren because they're together.

[Alaina]

Oh, okay.

[Ashe]

So right around this time, Lauren gets a text telling her that Owen doesn't like her. He likes whoever this unknown texter is, and they are both dtf.

[Alaina]

Down to fuck.

[Ashe]

Down to fuck. I was gonna say for my. For my homies out there who don't know what DTF is. Down to fuck.

[Alaina]

Yeah. I only know what it is because. No, not even that. I didn't even realize that was in there. I. I only know it from on Southern Charm. Shep said it about somebody and then immediately regretted it because that person was like, go yourself. And I thought it was funny.

[Ashe]

Why don't I remember who that is?

[Alaina]

It was Bailey. Oh, I remember. He was like. Because, like, that was shitty to say. Yeah, it is. Because he said it in like a jokey way. And she was like, you're an. Yeah.

[Ashe]

And she was like, actually, I don't want to you. She was a queen.

[Alaina]

She was a queen.

[Ashe]

And she was. I think she was like the one that got away.

[Alaina]

I think she.

[Ashe]

To be a better person.

[Alaina]

Be better. But can we. Can we clarify too? This whole text comes through that's like DTF. These are like 13 year olds.

[Ashe]

Not even yet. They're 12.

[Alaina]

They're 12. 12.

[Ashe]

Nobody's DTF at 12.

[Alaina]

Nobody. Nobody should be saying DTF at 12. Nobody.

[Ashe]

Oh, I find a text in my kid's phone someday that says an acronym that I have to Google, I'm sure at that point.

[Alaina]

And it.

[Ashe]

And it's anything like DTS going down for real. Lockdown.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

Lock down in the home.

[Alaina]

All of a sudden, it's like.

[Ashe]

It's like the purge.

[Alaina]

Let the bodies hit the floor starts playing.

[Ashe]

I'm like, well, you live here forever now. So honestly valid. So the texts come in like that and they're pretty shitty.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

Then they stop for a year. They literally stop for an entire year. And then all of a sudden, almost 365 days later, they start up again. And they start up and they go every single fucking day, multiple times a day. Essentially, like sun up to sundown.

[Alaina]

Oh, yeah. And they said that the nighttime texts, because it was. It wasn't even sun up to sundown. It was like through the night, past sundown. Because they said the night ones would get particularly, like, nasty, which is interesting. Yeah, like that's. It's very interesting when you find out what's going on here.

[Ashe]

Yeah, definitely. So some of the texts and. And these texts are being sent to Lauren and Owen at this point. Both of them, mostly to Lauren, though some of them said, effing trash. Don't wear effin leggings. No one wants to see your anorexic ass like that. So upsetting that.

[Alaina]

The anorexic thing is such a thing that gets like. It's such a weird insult. It is a weird insult. And it's, like, common. You know what's common insult? I used to hear that all the time in middle school. Oh.

[Ashe]

I've been on both ends of that spectrum because I was a lot tinier senior when I was in middle school, and I got anorexic then. And then I got, like, obese bitch when I was in high school, I was like, awesome.

[Alaina]

Why are we. Why are we commenting? First of all, because it's like, they're all assuming and, you know, like, that this is because. Especially because this is somebody saying, like, Owen is down to them, that this is a girl.

[Ashe]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

And it's like, why are we commenting as women and girls on other girls and other women's bodies? Can we stop doing that?

[Ashe]

Because also, like, growing up, I remember being like 9 years old and becoming aware of my body and becoming aware that I didn't like it.

[Alaina]

And you absolutely should never be aware of that. It shouldn't even be a thought in your mind.

[Ashe]

But that's the thing. Like, young girls so early learn to be their biggest critics.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

And then they grow up almost immediately becoming critics of each other.

[Alaina]

Yeah. Because they. And you have to be so care. Like, I don't allow anybody to, to talk about weight.

[Ashe]

No.

[Alaina]

Or bodies in that way around my kids.

[Ashe]

Because there's so many different reasons why bodies look the way they look. And one is not better than the other for any reason.

[Alaina]

It's not something.

[Ashe]

You're healthy and your doctor's not concerned.

[Alaina]

Exactly.

[Ashe]

You look great.

[Alaina]

That's the thing. I'm like, you go to your yearly physical, they say that you're healthy, they say thumbs up and that's all that matters. You don't need to hear anything else about what's going on.

[Ashe]

I totally agree with that. And that's something I'm going to adopt when I have kids. It's no weight talk.

[Alaina]

Yeah. I don't want any weight talk around them. And it's like so for like them you call it like anorexic because like you know, like girls especially at her age, like seventh grade and shit. Yeah. Like 12 years old, you're like every kid is like gangly at some point and trying to like their body's just like growing into itself. You know what I mean? Or they're holding on to like extra baby weight and it's like. And they're trying, their body's trying to grow out of that. Like everybody's in that weird in between area where you're either like weirdly gangly and like noodly and like nothing makes sense and you're just this like skeleton with like a little bit of flesh on it. Or you're just like trying to figure it out and your body's not growing fast enough to like catch up with the baby weight you had on.

[Ashe]

Yeah, exactly.

[Alaina]

Like everybody's so different at that time and it's like all weird. It's all weird.

[Ashe]

I feel like 6th, 7th and 8th grade especially are so hard.

[Alaina]

Yes.

[Ashe]

For that reason and obviously like so many other reasons. Cuz one thing that they. I forget who said it in the article. I think the principal said it eventually that this is like the age where you start to break off from your parents too and you like really get involved in your friend group and you like break away.

[Alaina]

Yeah. It's like an inside out. Yeah. Her, her family island gets smaller and her friend island gets bigger and kind of hides the family island.

[Ashe]

And it does because you same age, it's like this age where you're trying to navigate all of this and people saying everything about you and you starting to like self criticize and you're also at the same time kind of like taking away your own support system, you know, like It's a weird time. Unknowingly. Exactly.

[Alaina]

Like pushing away your own support system.

[Ashe]

Right. So beyond that awful text message, there was worse ones even you are worthless and mean nothing. You never have. Get a life out of here. Owen will never look at you again or talk to you. You up his life so bad. His family hates you for it. He will never in his life acknowledge you again. Get the lost he's done with you.

[Alaina]

That is like so unhinged.

[Ashe]

Just like you don't mean anything. You're worthless. Get a life. His family hates you. Like even making her doubt her. Her support system beyond her own family.

[Alaina]

Like when that's diabolical for a kid to write to another kid. Like a peer. Yeah, it's. This is diabolical.

[Ashe]

Well and then. And I should mention too. So like saying his family fucking hates you. So like his mom and dad were a big part of his life. But he also has a younger sister who was in the friend group too. So Lauren's like, okay, does Macy hate me? Is everybody like, does Jill hate me? Does Dave who hates me? And why do they hate me? And why have I up his life?

[Alaina]

And now she's wearing like that adults don't like her.

[Ashe]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

Like now it's like going beyond like, it's just like, what, like what is going on? And also like what is this about?

[Ashe]

Like what.

[Alaina]

What the hell?

[Ashe]

It's wild. So then the texts start getting insanely sexual. Like listen messages when you watch. I'm not gonna like say all of them because I, I'm not capable of saying some of the things that this person wrote.

[Alaina]

They're horrifying.

[Ashe]

The narrator in this was like, it's not funny by any means. But the narrator was cracking me up because it's like almost a robotic voice.

[Alaina]

It is, it's got like a very like, it's very. It's computer esque. So it sounds like if you, if you've ever seen. And again, the like information being told is not funny. I'm saying the voice is funny. Agreed. If you've ever seen the Office. And there's an episode where Michael finds out that his computer can talk to text or like text talk. Yeah, yeah. And he puts like eyes on it, on the back of it and like a mouth and then has people come in the office and he just types things out and it's like. And he'll be like. And it's just like, hello, Pam, you look particularly hot today. It's just.

[Ashe]

Yeah, that's what it sounds like.

[Alaina]

I know. That's what it felt like. It's like that kind of weird robotic voice that just makes it so unhinged.

[Ashe]

And like, in the office, apparently, it's like, you look hot today. These text messages were talking about, like, tits, BJ's, creamin. Like, literally.

[Alaina]

That's not even that. That is a verbatim.

[Ashe]

I didn't want to say any of that. Especially the latter of that.

[Alaina]

No, I.

[Ashe]

We want to jump into traffic. Like, it's too much.

[Alaina]

It's all that. If this. If this is, like, her peers, you're like, what the. How is that coming out of a literal child's mouth? 1. How do they know any of those words? Yeah, and to like, you're too young. You're too young to know all those words. Like, what the is going on? You're a baby. And it's like they're talking about, like, literal sex acts. Yeah. They're talking like they, like, mention, like, somebody's dick. Yeah.

[Ashe]

They mention, like, crazy. They mention insanely explicit things. And you'll see it if you watch it.

[Alaina]

Yeah. And when we get to, like, where we're gonna reveal who it is, we'll get further into how wild this is.

[Ashe]

Yeah. One of them just to, like, one of the actual verbatim ones was, he wants sex. BJ's. And making out.

[Alaina]

Out and making out.

[Ashe]

And it's the way the narrator says it. He's like. And making out.

[Alaina]

Yeah, he's like, I'm making out. I'm like, damn.

[Ashe]

So once that started happening, because these are literal, like, 12, 13 year olds maybe, I don't even think they're 14 at this point, the parents, including especially Jill and Kendra, because these are their kids being victimized, went to this school and the superintendent ended up getting involved, and obviously so did the principal. Now, basically, what they did as a school, which it's interesting because at one point, Kendra, Lauren's mom, is like, I didn't think they were doing enough. And I was like, it sounds like they were doing a lot. Because what they did was they set up surveillance so that anytime a text came in, they could look at the cameras and see who, like, what student was on their phone at that point.

[Alaina]

Yeah, I thought it was, like, pretty. It was especially. This is a member a small community, and this is a small town. These are like, you know, like, they don't have all this resources to do. And they were really, like, doing, like, grunt work, trying to, like, investigative work, trying to figure out who this could be.

[Ashe]

Well, and when you think about all the things that I'm sure school, like, I don't know, all the things the school administrator has to do throughout the day.

[Alaina]

I imagine it's a lot, but I.

[Ashe]

Would assume it's a lot and like to take the extra time to be able to do this.

[Alaina]

Yeah. It sounds like they took it seriously, especially in the beginning.

[Ashe]

I think so. Yeah. So then people started to actually think that Lauren was sending the text to herself to get attention, which is really sad because she definitely wasn't.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

But after some sit downs with the admin at school, they ruled her out and they also ruled Owen out. I don't, I'm not exactly sure how they did it, but they think something with the surveillance.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

So also you said something hilarious at this point because I think the principal was like, there's a lot of kids in this school. Like, you can't rule anyone out. And that's why we had to do the surveillance.

[Alaina]

And I was like, and I stand by it. I feel like we can pretty like confidently rule out the preschoolers.

[Ashe]

Yeah, definitely the priests. I think I was dying.

[Alaina]

She could feel good about that.

[Ashe]

Elena goes, I don't know, I feel like we could probably rule out the preschoolers.

[Alaina]

I feel like they're not involved.

[Ashe]

She was like, I don't know, who am I to say?

[Alaina]

But like, I feel like I, I feel confident in that. Like, that's just me. I feel like even the kindergartners, we can probably, you know, rule them right out.

[Ashe]

Yeah. You get to first grade, Chicken.

[Alaina]

You get to first grade and things get really wily now. So I don't really know.

[Ashe]

They have like Apple watches and shit.

[Alaina]

But preschool and kindergarten, I think we're safe. We' cut out a little portion of the community.

[Ashe]

I think so.

[Alaina]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ashe]

And you know, less to watch.

[Alaina]

It's true.

[Ashe]

So once they cut out the kindergartners and the preschoolers, they, they kept their eye on everyone else. And at the same time, Jill and Kendra were getting together on their own a lot to talk about the text messages because Lauren's getting her own set, Owen's getting his own set. Then they're probably getting like group messages. So they're comparing notes basically and probably.

[Alaina]

Feeling like, like, thank goodness they have somebody they can go to to talk about it. Miserate with. Like it's not just their kid that's going through it. Like. Because I imagine if this was just happening to your child, you must feel so isolated and alone. Absolutely. And just wanting help, figuring out what to do. So like to have that. Like, you don't want it to be happening to both your kids, but, like.

[Ashe]

At least have each other to try.

[Alaina]

To figure this out with.

[Ashe]

Right. So they went together to talk to the principal themselves once they. They were like, can you do more? And he was like, I really can't. I suggest you change their numbers, block the texter. Something like.

[Alaina]

Okay. When we were watching this, because Ash had already watched it and then watched it with me for the first time. Me watching it for the first time, I literally said. I was like, I. I knew that who had done this. So I immediately, like, checked my own question, basically. Yeah. But I was like, why aren't they just changing the numbers? Like.

[Ashe]

Right.

[Alaina]

Like, shut down that line, get a new number, give them a new phone. Or, I mean, now, especially little kids, you can get them, like, phones that are just calling and texting people you approve and that you can approve all the apps and all that stuff. And it's like, maybe you have to do that for a little while. Yeah. Just to, like, see how it stops and see if you can figure out something via that. And while you're figuring it out, you hang on to those other phones so your kids don't let anybody know except their, like, close friends who has that new number.

[Ashe]

Smart.

[Alaina]

And then see if somebody infiltrates smart. Because if they're only telling their close friends who those numbers are and you're approving them, boom, you're in.

[Ashe]

It's gotta be one of the close friends.

[Alaina]

And then you hold on to those other phones and you can start doing some investigation.

[Ashe]

It could have worked.

[Alaina]

I was a little confused why that didn't happen.

[Ashe]

Well, so basically, they said blocking the number didn't work because the texter was using one of those, like, random number generators. I think it was pinger, which should.

[Alaina]

Absolutely, absolutely be outlawed. Yeah.

[Ashe]

There's no reason to ever disguise your phone number.

[Alaina]

No. Why does that exist?

[Ashe]

Nope.

[Alaina]

No, no, no, no, no. Yeah.

[Ashe]

So they couldn't block it because another text would just come in. Whoever was doing this had the number, and that's all they needed because they could just get phone number after phone number to continue. And they also said they didn't want to get their. Their kids new phones because they wanted to get the. To the bottom of who this was, which I do understand, because. And Jill said it, Owen's mom, she was saying, like, this could have been somebody that we were letting into our lives because this community is so small. And obviously this person knew a lot about our kids. Knew, like, where they Were at what time, what they were wearing sometimes. So we didn't want to continue inviting somebody like that into our home. And if we had, if we had gotten them new phones and like that person didn't end up getting those numbers, we would never know who that was and we would keep spending time with them, you know?

[Alaina]

Yeah. And I totally get that.

[Ashe]

So I did understand that.

[Alaina]

But that's why they'll the the phones that you only approve the numbers.

[Ashe]

It worked. It's true. So Lauren and Owen at like, they're very far into this because this was, I think ultimately this went on for like was, it was 20 months, right. Almost two years. So like, like a good amount of the, of the way into this all happening. Lauren and Owen started fighting with each other because this caller would be like, oh, like he wants me. He hung out with me. Me and him went to a hotel this weekend. His family likes me. So Lauren's going to Owen and being like, who are.

[Alaina]

Were you hanging out with this girl? Right.

[Ashe]

Like, were you hanging out with this person? But so they started fighting because of all the tension and they ended up breaking up. And Owen thought that maybe if they broke up, the messages would stop and Lauren would not, you know, be going through what she was going through anymore. He could end what he was going through. And then he said like, maybe, you know, try again someday. Which was so sweet because I'm like, you little beans.

[Alaina]

I know you little 13 year olds.

[Ashe]

Liked each other like they did. They were so cute together. But the thing was, after they broke up, the messages got a million times worse.

[Alaina]

Now the bullies won a million times. Never want to give them the, the prize.

[Ashe]

So they started telling Lauren to kill herself.

[Alaina]

This is where it just like multiple.

[Ashe]

Times a day, texting her how worthless she was, how she should just kill herself because Owen didn't like her and didn't want to be with her anymore. How she. They wrote hashtag bang, bang. Do it now.

[Alaina]

Literally kill yourself now. Yup. Hashtag bang bang.

[Ashe]

Yup.

[Alaina]

Like how that. And the worst part is nobody can do anything. No. Because they can't figure out who this is. So this person's literally texting death threats and they just get away with it. Yup.

[Ashe]

And they're also, it seemed like they were stalking her at this point too because like I said before, like whoever this was knew where they were at certain points in time. And then like they knew how Lauren was doing in basketball games and they were trying to tear her confidence down in her. And her dad said that she's an incredible athlete. Like, I think she played basketball and either softball or baseball, who knows what else. But she was really talented, like a great athlete. And this. Whoever this person was knew that, and they were trying to break that confidence. So, like, if she didn't get a ton of points in a basketball game, they'd be like, wow, like, how embarrassing. You suck. Kill yourself, quit basketball.

[Alaina]

And they knew how many points she would get.

[Ashe]

They knew specifically like what that one.

[Alaina]

Game, they said like two points. Haha, you suck.

[Ashe]

Yep. So that is when Sheriff Mike Maine got involved. Everybody started getting very worried about the trauma surrounding all of this. I also think that I read in the. The Cut article that Jill herself had read an article or like saw news about somebody bringing a gun to school in another community, and she was like, what if all of this, they get pushed that far? Exactly. Pushes them that far. So that's when the sheriff got involved.

[Alaina]

Because they were also writing like, we're gonna break you. Oh yeah. Like, we won't stop till we break you.

[Ashe]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

It's like, what the.

[Ashe]

And also at that point they're like, okay, is this a group of people? And how do we.

[Alaina]

That's the thing.

[Ashe]

How do we figure out who this is all coming from? And I also understand, like, it was coming from multiple different numbers too.

[Alaina]

So yeah.

[Ashe]

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[Alaina]

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[Ashe]

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[Ashe]

Sheriff Mike Maine starts looking at this one particular girl, Chloe. Chloe. Remember, she's the one who her family has like the big Halloween party.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

She had somewhat of a reputation for being a bully at the school. Like administrators seem to have talked to her a few times. Her parents got called in and like there was just incidents.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

And the reason she specifically got called in for this is because the texter said something about how they had the most points in the game. And when they looked at the points on the scorecard, it was Chloe who had the most.

[Alaina]

And Kendra helped them out with that.

[Ashe]

Kendra helped them out with that.

[Alaina]

Lauren's mom, because she's the scorekeeper.

[Ashe]

And at one point, she'd also been the girl's coach.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

Basketball coach. And also it was Chloe's Halloween party where this all started. And Lauren originally hadn't been invited and, like, didn't want to go. So they kind of felt like they had a hot lead here.

[Alaina]

Well, and I think, like, her and Owen were.

[Ashe]

Her and Owen were. After Lauren broke up and they had, like, crushes on each other.

[Alaina]

So there was just a. And I think there was just like, never a great relationship between Chloe and Lauren because of that, like, lingering, what's going on here kind of thing. Yeah.

[Ashe]

Basically at this point in time, all roads were leading to Chloe Wilson. And I do kind of get why. You get why they went down that road. So Chloe's friends, moms, were looking at their phones because they're like, is this group of Chloe's friends doing this? Like, are they all doing it together? Parents were reaching out to other parents, to the school, to the coaches. Everyone is turning on everyone in Beale, Michigan, at this point.

[Alaina]

The parents are turning on each other. The kids are turning on each other.

[Ashe]

Like, all the girls on the basketball team are fighting. Parents were trying to get in to talk to the kids, but the principal and the superintendent are like, we can't have an angry mom of mob of parents, like, hunting the kids down, you know?

[Alaina]

Yeah. And Chloe's, you know, like, these kids are getting interrogated by police, like, school.

[Ashe]

All year, actual police officers. And the other thing was another reason why they were looking at Chloe is because the texter or texters were saying that they had connections to the cops and that's why they were never going to get caught. And Chloe's dad, as Sophie put it, was a police.

[Alaina]

She was a police.

[Ashe]

He was a police officer.

[Alaina]

Excuse me.

[Ashe]

So things started looking even more like Chloe when her family took a trip to Florida. And the area code of the text texts that were coming in started coming from a Florida area code. Now, on top of that, too, in the cut article, Lauren, the author of the article, had written that Snapchat account had even been made in Chloe's name. And Chloe was like, that's not my account, and I'm not sending those messages.

[Alaina]

And, like, showed that.

[Ashe]

And she showed her dad and also was like, this is how easy it is to make an account and say it's me. So her parents believed her the whole time.

[Alaina]

Of course. Course.

[Ashe]

But at that point, it also seemed like they didn't really have any other option to prove that it wasn't their daughter than to have her phone dubbed with the police, which. That is such an in. Like, obviously it took a long, like, road to get there.

[Alaina]

But I do feel for them for actually doing that.

[Ashe]

Like, well, that's a thing.

[Alaina]

In that way.

[Ashe]

Kudos to them because that's such an invasion of privacy. That is everything on your phone. Every picture, every text, every file. Yeah. Y. I don't know if it even goes into, like, every website you've ever been to. Probably, like, it's everything you've ever done on your phone.

[Alaina]

Yeah. And it's like, that's a lot. And especially if you. I mean, one of the main things you should be teaching your kid is that their privacy. They have a right to privacy and that. That privacy should be respected. Yeah. And that respect breeds. Because of privacy being respected. And it's like. And now you're kind of being like, I'm sorry, we don't have any other choice, so we let strangers invade your privacy. Like, that sucks. Sucks.

[Ashe]

It does. Well, they dubbed Chloe's phone, and it proved that she wasn't doing anything.

[Alaina]

So she had been literally.

[Ashe]

She'd been framed.

[Alaina]

Like, framed for this.

[Ashe]

And then somehow whoever was sending the text messages didn't realize that Chloe's phone had been dubbed and it proved that she wasn't doing anything because they kept trying to make it seem like they were Chloe. Even after the phone was dubbed, they would send. They would send all kinds of messages, basically, like. Like, they would send pictures of Owen and Chloe to mock Lauren and say, like, oh, he's hanging out with us, not you.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

That kind of thing.

[Alaina]

And can you imagine how Chloe felt? Yeah.

[Ashe]

She's like, I'm not doing this.

[Alaina]

One, being, like, railroaded for an entire year of her high school career and, like, treated like a villain. And then two, she's sitting there going, who the is this person that's trying to frame me? Yeah. Like, that would be terrifying. I'd be like, why are they doing this to me now?

[Ashe]

It's like a Pretty Little Liars.

[Alaina]

Yeah. It's really scary.

[Ashe]

It is.

[Alaina]

That would freak me out.

[Ashe]

Absolutely. So then around Christmas time, everybody ended up getting a text about Owen's phone case and the picture his family realized had tape had been taken at a Christmas family party where they only had family in their house and nobody else.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

So that's when they were like, okay, this has to be somebody in our family that was in our house that day. That was in our house that day. So they started looking at met Owen's cousin Adriana, who also went to school with everybody else.

[Alaina]

Adriana broke my heart.

[Ashe]

Adriana seemed like the sweetest bean.

[Alaina]

I felt so awful.

[Ashe]

She got. She like she was the next person basically to get railroaded.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

Everyone thought that it could have been her and especially thought that it was maybe her because she and Chloe didn't really get along. She had felt before in the past like Chloe had kind of bullied her. Chloe said she didn't bully her. It was like this whole back and forth thing. High school is awful for everybody involved. High school.

[Alaina]

High school sucks ass.

[Ashe]

Yeah, I would never do that.

[Alaina]

Middle school and high school suck ass.

[Ashe]

It's awful. So they pull her in and she's trying to prove to them that she didn't do anything. She ends up getting checked out. But then once her story checks out, she got a text from one of the random numbers asking her for help to like terrorize Lauren again and protect Owen. Like get, get Lauren away from Owen. Even though they were already broken up.

[Alaina]

Like what they the.

[Ashe]

And Adriana starts freaking out because she's been cleared at this point, but now she's got a text from the number and she started like bawling her eyes out. And this poor girl has like PTSD now.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

She said she'll pass a cop and she like doesn't trust them anymore.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

Because she felt like she couldn't prove to them that she wasn't doing this.

[Alaina]

Which is so like the far reaching effects that this had on so many kids and so many families. Especially because of how small and tight knit of a community this is. Like it would be, it would do this kind of damage even in like a bigger community.

[Ashe]

Oh yes. It was just so much. It was so much easier because it was such a tight knit community. And now it also is starting to infiltrate people's family dynamics. Apparently Kendra, Lauren's mom and Lauren's father Sean were fighting all the time. Sean said the tension in the house was awful.

[Alaina]

Like she. It was like Kendra saying like she was handling it and Sean was saying.

[Ashe]

Like, obviously you're not, cuz it's still going on. Lauren's sobbing every morning, not wanting to go to school because like the call. The texter would berate her about like outfits she was wearing. She could never wear the right thing. Like just awful. I can't imagine how she Lived through it.

[Alaina]

It's awful. That was my bullies thing in middle school. If you're listening. Hey, what's up? You remember it was always what I. It was my clothing a lot of the time in my hair. And they would like leave handwritten because it was like back in, you know, the pioneer days. So they would leave, they would leave like handwritten notes in the bathroom and then they would find them for me or direct me to them like they were helping me. And it would be this like awful letter that was like talking about how shitty I dress and my hair is gross and all that. So it's like that that's tale is oldest time. Oh yeah. Especially with unfortunately girl on girl bullying is to do that kind of shit because it's the stuff that's going to get the most. Because every day you're going to wake up, you're going to put. You're going to rip through your closet.

[Ashe]

And do your absolute.

[Alaina]

You're going to put on a hundred different outfits and each time you're going to say what are they going to say about this one? How are they going to make me feel like today about this one? Yep. It's crazy. It is.

[Ashe]

It's so sad. I don't understand like, I just don't understand doing that to somebody else.

[Alaina]

I don't understand. It's like I, I, yeah, I don't get it.

[Ashe]

It's up. So a year and a half has gone by at the this point of them just whoever this caller texter is just terrorizing everyone in this town. But specifically Lauren and Owen. And at. So Lauren's getting all these text messages telling her to kill herself. Telling her like all the things we've been talking about just bullying her beyond belief.

[Alaina]

This crazy sexually explicit too.

[Ashe]

And well, that's the thing I was just gonna say. Exactly. And Owen is experiencing these text messages detailing graphics sex acts so graphic that.

[Alaina]

Like the superintendent of the school literally says he was like I'm a grown ass man. And like that kind of was making me uncomfortable. Like if like another adult said that to me. Like it's, it is crazy.

[Ashe]

It's beyond. When Drew and I, Drew and I watched this together the first time I saw it. And I. We literally had to pause halfway through because it was so shocking, so uncomfortable. I was like, I like need a second. Hold on.

[Alaina]

And it's like I, I don't think enough emphasis, emphasis. And we'll talk about more of that later. But I don't think enough emphasis either. In the documentary was Put on how to. It was obviously traumatizing for Lauren, what was being said to her. But what was being said to Owen? Like, they weren't saying, like, you know, you suck and everyone hates you. To Owen, they were literally assault. Sexually assaulting him via words. Like, they were literally sexual harassment. Like, he was being sexually harassed as a child. And it's like. And the. That was being said to him, will you up for a long time. Like, he. That's going to, like, stay with him.

[Ashe]

Oh, absolutely.

[Alaina]

And it's like, I don't think enough was put on that, like, how uncomfortable he probably felt and how, like, he probably had some kind of, like, weird, like, because that will make you feel like, shame for no reason.

[Ashe]

Absolutely it will.

[Alaina]

Like, I feel for him like that as well.

[Ashe]

Like, damn. Going into how we feel for this poor kid.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

So a year and a half into this, the sheriff got the FBI involved. Because the sheriff went as far as he could. He said, yeah. And the FBI needed to get involved to kind of do like, the IP tracking and all that.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

But obviously you don't just like, beep and boop onto a computer and figure that out in one day. It takes time.

[Alaina]

No.

[Ashe]

So while they were working on their investigation, Owen started dating this girl from another town. And her mom started getting messages, trying to break Owen and this girl up.

[Alaina]

Up. So whoever from another town's mom.

[Ashe]

Yeah. And she was getting, like, multiple text messages. I think something happened, like, where they knew what she was posting on Facebook, like, that kind of thing. And Owen is sitting here being like, I just can't date anybody.

[Alaina]

No.

[Ashe]

He ended up breaking up. Like, they ended up just, like, going their sep. Separate ways because he didn't want this girl to experience what Lauren had gone through.

[Alaina]

And, like, this girl was freaking out, like, scared, being like, what the hell's going on right now? And Owen was trying to be like, I don't know who it is.

[Ashe]

I don't know who it is, and I don't want this to happen. Happen to you. And also probably sitting there and being like, okay, am I ever going to be able to have a relationship with.

[Alaina]

Anyone or they just going to follow me forever?

[Ashe]

Or that's the thing. Like, I can't imagine how claustrophobic and, like, controlled you would feel.

[Alaina]

Yeah. And totally helpless.

[Ashe]

Well, and that's the thing. So he started, I'm sure, feeling out of control. And his mom, Jill said, like, during sports games, like basketball especially, she saw him starting to get, like, extra aggressive.

[Alaina]

Like, he was letting it out on the field.

[Ashe]

Exactly. Because it was somewhere where he could be a little more aggressive without actually hurting somebody.

[Alaina]

But she was probably worried about.

[Ashe]

But she was. And I, at one point in the Cut article.

[Alaina]

Oh, it destroyed this part. Destroyed me. The bullying thing. Yeah, I. I haven't talked about the bullying a lot lately, but, like, I used to talk about it all the time, and it apparently pissed some people off. I know why. But. But, but. But when I experienced it in middle school, I was insufferable at home. I got in fights with my parents all the time just because I was so upset and so frustrated and so, like, just sad all the time. And also angry that I would end up, like, exploding on them just because I was under so much stress and pressure. And that's exactly what happened. Reading that, I was like, whoa. Cause I was like, I can feel that feeling. He's feeling that. Apparently, Owen got really upset one night, according to the article, and had said, like, yelled at Jill, his mother, saying, like, you're my mother. It's your job to, like, you should be able to stop this bullying. I can't. And she said. She just sobbed.

[Ashe]

I can't imagine how she must have felt, because I'm sure all. And he know. He knew in his heart of hearts all she wanted to do is stop that.

[Alaina]

But he didn't say that to hurt her. He said it because he was exploding.

[Ashe]

That's the thing. It's a pressure cooker. And at some point, you do explode.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

And that must have been awful for him and for her.

[Alaina]

Like, I. I can't imagine how. I. It's like, I know how he felt in that moment. And now as a mother, I can't fathom how she felt in that moment. Because if one of my kids looked at me and said, like, why can't you make your job? You should be able to make this stop. You're my mother. It would be just take out a katana and stab me through the chest. Like, that would literally annihilate me. Well, and that would annihilate me.

[Ashe]

This is my opinion. But I do think Jill was ultimately really the one who got this to stop, because she basically told the sheriff, like, I'm done here. And if you don't, don't. If you don't do more, I'm going to the papers.

[Alaina]

Yeah. And I was like, good for you.

[Ashe]

So she did the work to get something done. Like, I give Jill. Jill is a mama bear.

[Alaina]

She is. You can tell. Tell that she was just doing whatever she could.

[Ashe]

So the FBI. The FBI. Agent Bradley. Peter started doing his thing. He's beeping and booping. It's taken a while, but he finally finds out that these texts are coming, like we said before, from this app called Pinger, which you could use to disguise a phone number. And as we said, you should just. No app like that should exist.

[Alaina]

No.

[Ashe]

But what is great is that the FBI can send a warrant to a place like that.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

To get IP addresses. So he got all these warrants served at, like, Verizon Panger, all these different places to really, you know, put the puzzle pieces together. And we're about to tell you who it was finally.

[Alaina]

So we can really just start ripping.

[Ashe]

I need you all ready. We're gonna take a collective deep breath together. If you don't know who this is, you're about to get your shit rocked. Ready? In through the nose, out through the mouth. For a year and a half, these text messages were coming from Lauren's mother, Kendra.

[Alaina]

I need you to really take that in. Starting with the first text that said DDTF to 12 year olds to a.

[Ashe]

12 year old that Owen was DTF. Now, according to Ms. Kendra, those original texts did not come from her.

[Alaina]

Her.

[Ashe]

And we'll get there.

[Alaina]

Which.

[Ashe]

That's my opinion. I don't believe it.

[Alaina]

Yeah. Personally, I don't believe that. No. And I don't think a lot of people believe that.

[Ashe]

So we'll get there in a minute. So they find out that it's Lauren's mom. And literally everybody is like, no, that's not possible. Like, how a mother, I should say mostly everybody.

[Alaina]

A mother could not do that to their child.

[Ashe]

No, that. And that was everybody's thought. A mom could never do that to their child.

[Alaina]

And I. I still think that. That.

[Ashe]

I also.

[Alaina]

A mother could not do that to her.

[Ashe]

That's not a mama.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

So the sheriff goes to confront her and she denies it for about 3.2 seconds.

[Alaina]

It's on body cam footage, by the way, in the documentary.

[Ashe]

It's the wildest you'll ever see and.

[Alaina]

You are going to be seething.

[Ashe]

She barely denies it. They basically say, like, yeah, so it's coming from your phone, Kendra. And she's like, no, that can't be.

[Alaina]

She literally goes, no, no, no, not like.

[Ashe]

And like you were saying, if you were ever accused of this and you were not guilty, you'd be like, oh, my God, no. Like, look through my phone right now. It's not me. I would never do that. What the. Like, oh, my God.

[Alaina]

You would be losing Your mind and being like, wait, how is that possible? Like I'm not. Like you'd be like holy. Like I'll do whatever it is to prove that I didn't do this. I can't believe that you're telling me this right now.

[Ashe]

She's like, no. And then he says, what was it Kendra? Like some kind of infatuation with Owen? And she goes, no, nothing like that.

[Alaina]

And the way she says it is like, no, nothing like that.

[Ashe]

Like just, just so, so care if somebody's asking you if you haven't as like a. I don't know how old she is, but I'm assuming like grown ass woman. Yeah. I was gonna say I won't even, I won't even assume her age here. But above, above the age of 18. If somebody's asking you if you have an infatuation with a child, a boy who was 12 to 14 years old when you sent these text messages, or 12 to 13 and a half, whatever, you would emphatically scream from the rooftop that you don't have any kind of infatuation with this child. But Kendra couldn't. Because you look at those text messages where she's talking about his private life.

[Alaina]

And, and private body parts.

[Ashe]

Private body parts, everybody and her body parts. She can't deny that. No, you can't deny that there's not.

[Alaina]

Some kind of infatuation we mentioned. She wrote. Yeah, to a 12 year old boy. Yup. Like a boy, a baby. A child. Barely passed single digit age.

[Ashe]

Like, like what the fuck is wrong with you, lady? I don't know. Like, I don't know how anyone in like she. There's no way she lives there anymore because I feel like she would literally be like hunted and pitchforked out of there. Yeah. Like she can't, you know like Beauty and the Beast when they're going to like take down the beast.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

And they all have like the, the.

[Alaina]

Flaming throwers and like throw.

[Ashe]

Not flamethrowers but like flaming torches when.

[Alaina]

They pulled out bazookas and beauty at the beach.

[Ashe]

Listen, I probably crazy I. In this case.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

Honey, like I don't. There wouldn't be a safe corner on.

[Alaina]

The earth I hear here. I like Jill, Owen's mom.

[Ashe]

I, I bow down.

[Alaina]

I was Owen's mom. I'm not kidding you. Not a safe place on earth.

[Ashe]

Not a.

[Alaina]

You'd have to move to Jupiter to get away from me. Yeah. Like you just would. Yeah.

[Ashe]

And even then I'd probably figure out a way to Jupiter.

[Alaina]

Pick one of the moons or something.

[Ashe]

I'd probably go there too.

[Alaina]

And I'll take the time to search all of them. Yep. Like that's. I'm.

[Ashe]

I'll go to another universe.

[Alaina]

The shit she said to her child, her young child is unforgivable. It is fucking disgusting. Yeah.

[Ashe]

And it's.

[Alaina]

And in my opinion, Kendra is a sack of shit. Yeah. And there is something deeply disturbed there.

[Ashe]

Deeply.

[Alaina]

And deeply dangerous. Absolutely.

[Ashe]

Very.

[Alaina]

Because she should, she said to. A child should not be taken lightly.

[Ashe]

She should be on a list. In my opinion.

[Alaina]

That is, that's the part of this and I mentioned it a little bit before, that's the part of the documentary that I don't think. I think they could have done a two part documentary.

[Ashe]

Totally.

[Alaina]

One on how she affected Lauren and two too how she affected Owen. Yeah. And how up it is that. Because like we'll get even more into the Lauren stuff. But the Owen stuff is a. Is a different kind of up. It really is. And it's something that really should have been taken more seriously in that documentary and touched upon more. Yeah.

[Ashe]

So the crazy thing about this too, to me is that she basically spent less time in prison, I think than she got 19 months in prison. The text went on longer than that. Yeah, the text went on at least 20 months.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

And during that time she couldn't speak. She couldn't speak to any of the victims involved, which meant that she couldn't speak to her daughter. And the sad thing in my opinion is that like that was hard for Lauren.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

Because in that, in that police like footage camp, like in that police body footage, you can tell at least I think that Lauren's in shock.

[Alaina]

Oh, I think she's purely. That is straight up shock because even she disassociated out of this planet.

[Ashe]

That's the thing. She looked to me at least like she was fully disassociating even like Kendra is literally like grabbing her, trying to.

[Alaina]

Comfort her, grabbing her hand like, like.

[Ashe]

Basically like hugging her while she's sitting down, like stroking her head. I'd be like, don't touch me. But also you're the person that I've gone to for comfort my whole life. Like, and you're the person I've gone to for comfort throughout this whole ordeal.

[Alaina]

That's thing. So it's like. And now another development has come that I would come to you for comfort for. But it's you. Yeah. Like how do you reconcile that she's still a young girl and like that's come on like that is crazy.

[Ashe]

It turned out, by the way too, that Kendra was lying to everybody, it seems, because so they call. They were worried obviously about like the, when the sheriff was there, he was like, I can't just like leave you two. Now that I've noted your mom as the, the person who's been ruining your life and telling you to kill yourself for the past however many.

[Alaina]

Can I say one thing too? Yeah. That rubbed me the wrong way about that whole thing. Yeah. They never should have told Lauren in front of her mother.

[Ashe]

I feel that way too.

[Alaina]

Because she was not allowed to have a genuine reaction.

[Ashe]

I feel that way too. She should have been taken into a separate room or something like that. But I don't know what the logistics are there. Like if they, if they needed Kendra's permission to do that.

[Alaina]

Cuz she's a minor.

[Ashe]

Cuz she's a minor. Exactly.

[Alaina]

But it's like, like I don't know.

[Ashe]

There was, it didn't seem to me like there was a lot of thought put into delivering the message.

[Alaina]

Like maybe perhaps I'm missing a part of the puzzle and I won't claim that I know everything here that like maybe they did ask Kendra, like we would like to tell her, talk to her alone. And Kendra said no. Yeah. And again, she's a minor, so I don't know how that works. I. I feel like if the mom says no, the parent says no, then that's just the way it goes. I mean, the only other thing I could think that you could do was to say you need to call your husband and tell him that he needs to get home and tell him and be like, okay, this is what happened. Tell him the whole thing outside and then be like, and we would like to tell your daughter or you and I can tell your daughter alone without her present.

[Ashe]

Cause that's the thing.

[Alaina]

I just felt like having Kendra in the room did not allow Lauren to actually have any reaction. No. Like, cause.

[Ashe]

And she probably didn't. I mean, I don't know how she felt because obviously it's very clear in the documentary that she, she still loves her mother and like she, She's a strong fucking girl. One, for getting through all of this and two, being able to move on from this and like maintain a relationship or like some kind of relationship with.

[Alaina]

Her mom and just like maintain like her humanity and kindness.

[Ashe]

Exactly.

[Alaina]

That is something Owen said was what drew him to Lauren was she was supremely kind. Yeah. So that is like one of her Hallmark.

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[Alaina]

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[Ashe]

Just so many good brands.

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[Alaina]

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[Ashe]

When I feel like anything's possible, I.

[Alaina]

Feel kind of giddy. I want to be an astronaut, an artist, an actress, to visit another country.

[Ashe]

All I need is a backpack and a pair of shoes and I'll find a way I'm able to do anything I set my mind to. I've never felt like more such things are possible right now.

[Alaina]

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[Ashe]

But it's like, she should have. I just feel like maybe in that moment, she probably didn't want to be comforted by her mom. And like, she should have had that.

[Alaina]

Option is what we're talking about.

[Ashe]

Yeah, that's the thing.

[Alaina]

She didn't need to be, like, instantly grabbed at and touched. Her mom was like, grabbing her hand and like, Lauren's just kind of like, limply allowing her to.

[Ashe]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

And it's like, it's just fucked up. It was a fucked up situation. I was like. I wanted somebody to, like, remove Kendra from the room because I was like, she needs to be able to, like, process this for a second.

[Ashe]

No, that's the thing.

[Alaina]

I. Without being.

[Ashe]

Got any time to process.

[Alaina]

No.

[Ashe]

And any time to process that. For over a year, her mom was sending her boyfriend and her explicit sexual messages, literally saying, like, he doesn't, like, you need, like, basically, I think. Let me find one that I. That I wrote down. It was. Was like.

[Alaina]

There were times when she was like, you won't sleep with him.

[Ashe]

That's the one I was trying to find.

[Alaina]

Sleep with him. Like, you're not sleeping with him. You're not giving him blowjobs. That's why he's breaking out with you. And I was like, this is a quote. You're talking to your child.

[Ashe]

This is a quote. Maybe you shouldn't have picked cross country over him. You proved he isn't important to you. We were there, though. You don't get with him in bed. You don't sneak out with him. You dress awful. Ain't no guy want that.

[Alaina]

That's her mother talking to her. A child.

[Ashe]

Yup. Like, that's beyond.

[Alaina]

I. I can't Comprehend it. I can't. Nothing about my brain can compute this in any way, shape or form. And her excuses to me, I don't. Oh, I'm not saying didn't happen to her. I'm not saying that Kendra doesn't have trauma, but to be quite honest, I don't give a about what happened to her because she used it as an excuse use to literally inflict trauma upon two children, including their own.

[Ashe]

More than two children.

[Alaina]

Exactly. More than two children. And it's like, I'm sorry a whole community doesn't give you a free pass to be a goddamn tornado in everybody's life. It just doesn't.

[Ashe]

So many people go to therapy, right? So many people unfortunately do experience trauma. That's unfortunately just the way that our world. That's the thing. It's just the way our world works.

[Alaina]

It's awful.

[Ashe]

But I feel like this is my opinion, but like 9 out of 10 people you talk to have experienced some kind of pretty awful trauma. Not everybody texts their daughter from an anonymous number telling her to go kill herself and like text her boyfriend about explicit things about his body.

[Alaina]

Exactly.

[Ashe]

Because they had trauma. I'm sorry, that doesn't give you a pass. And it doesn't make me feel bad. I feel bad for what happened to you when you were younger. 100. I don't feel bad for you now that you did this.

[Alaina]

No.

[Ashe]

Like, no, no, no, no, period.

[Alaina]

No.

[Ashe]

So also, she literally compares this to driving drunk. She like, she is so callous. At one point in the documentary, she's like, everybody has broken the law at some point. People probably have driven drunk before and not got caught. The only difference is that I got caught. Ah, babe. No, no.

[Alaina]

To compare sending sexually explicit texts to a 12 year old boy as a grown adult to someone having a DUI beyond my brain said no.

[Ashe]

That's comparing. No, that's comparing a zebra to a clementine.

[Alaina]

Literally.

[Ashe]

That's how, that's how, how insanely they don't exist. The differences between them.

[Alaina]

You can't compare those two things. And she's just like, whatever. She's like, everyone's broken the law. And it's like, first of all, no.

[Ashe]

And second of all, I've never broken the law like that.

[Alaina]

Babe, babe, no, no, no, no. And it's also like, we're not just talking about breaking the law. Yeah, that's a massive part of this. You. You told your daughter to kill herself. Hashtag, bang, bang, bang.

[Ashe]

Do it now.

[Alaina]

Do it now. Kill yourself now. And she also says, because they were like, what the is wrong with you?

[Ashe]

They're like, why did you say that? And they. And they said, did you think she. Like, were you ever worried that she was going to kill herself?

[Alaina]

And she had to think about it for a second. She was like, no, no. Oh, okay. And also, she. It's like the anorexic stuff. She literally admits that that was an insecurity.

[Ashe]

She said, Lauren knows she's fine because.

[Alaina]

She knows she has a small frame, and sometimes it can be an insecurity for her.

[Ashe]

And here's the thing.

[Alaina]

So her mother preyed on that.

[Ashe]

Here's the thing, too. First she says that. And then. And I. It's so funny. You had the exact same reaction that I did when I watched it the first time. And then when I watched it with you, you said it. They gave her such an out for that.

[Alaina]

That.

[Ashe]

Because they were like, were you talking to yourself when you were sending those messages? No.

[Alaina]

Yeah. That interviewer. I was literally like, shut the.

[Ashe]

I was like, don't give her a pass.

[Alaina]

Like, don't make her a victim.

[Ashe]

And she was like, maybe I was. Maybe I fell into that anorexic category, too, because I was so small.

[Alaina]

And it's like, first of all, can we stop throwing around the usage of anorexic?

[Ashe]

Like, it's not just like. Anorexic isn't just like, you're small.

[Alaina]

Yeah. It's like, thin does not mean anorexic.

[Ashe]

Way beyond that.

[Alaina]

So. So, you know, there's that. And it's like, two. Also, like, there was that whole thing where they, you know, Kendra, as this, like, phantom, like, of her daughter would say, like, call her like a JV Ho. And like, you're not good enough for varsity because she didn't make it on the varsity team. As someone who played. And it sounds like, you know, as someone who played sports and, like, sports.

[Ashe]

Meant a lot to you.

[Alaina]

It did. It meant.

[Ashe]

And it meant a lot to Lauren.

[Alaina]

And I remember sophomore year, I didn't make it on varsity for. And I was fucking devastated. It was a huge moment in my life. It shattered my confidence. Yeah. I was so upset. And it's like my mother heard all of that. She. She was there when I was crying about it and saying, I'm not good at this and I should just quit, and why am I even doing it? Her mother also heard that, I'm sure, because Lauren, sports was everything to her. So for her to use even that. That. That little, like, JV Ho. You're not good enough for varsity. She probably comforted her through not getting on varsity. And then to pull that out and use it on her. I'm sorry. Kendra's diabolical.

[Ashe]

She, like, diabolical.

[Alaina]

Diabolical behavior.

[Ashe]

Not only that. Like, there were text messages that said things like that. There were also pictures of Lauren and Owen together with Lauren's face crossed out.

[Alaina]

Out.

[Ashe]

And then words all over the picture saying, JV Ho Sluck. Not like, worthless. Like.

[Alaina]

Like, nobody will miss you.

[Ashe]

Nobody will miss you. All these awful things. Writing. Like, writing JV Ho alone would have been awful.

[Alaina]

Like. And again, remember, this is her mother. Her mother. I need. I can't stress this enough. Her mother brought up a picture of her own baby girl, her only. Her only baby girl, and wrote that shit over her fucking face.

[Ashe]

And that.

[Alaina]

I can't reconcile that in my mind. And for her to sit there and be like, you know, if I could go back and change it out. No, you wouldn't.

[Ashe]

No, no, you wouldn't also because you.

[Alaina]

Did it for two years.

[Ashe]

Again, I can't stress enough. That same woman who brought up the picture of her baby's face crossed it out, wrote all those things, told her to kill herself, was texting her boyfriend explicit acts, then had the gall in that documentary to sit. Sit there and talk about hearing Lauren's heartbeat for the first time.

[Alaina]

Oh, my God.

[Ashe]

And how she realized in that moment that, like, you think you can love this. This baby so much, and then you realize it, you have more love than you ever. You don't love there. That's not love.

[Alaina]

You don't treat someone you love that. And that is your baby. You're supposed to keep them safe. And you're preying on her insecurities. And foster. You're nurturing them, creating them. She nurtured those insecurities that she had and made them bigger. Because no matter what, after this, not only did she. Did Lauren think for a period of time that her peers were feeding on those insecurities. Didn't she realize now she's sitting there going, holy shit. My own mother said that shit to me.

[Ashe]

Me.

[Alaina]

That won't go away anytime soon.

[Ashe]

That is a.

[Alaina]

The damage is lasting there.

[Ashe]

That is a mind.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

That is the mind of a century.

[Alaina]

And for Kendra to sit there and act like she is any sort of victim. I was.

[Ashe]

Living.

[Alaina]

I am. I'm still seething just thinking about her face sitting there crying to act like it's like she's.

[Ashe]

Like she's the victim.

[Alaina]

Yep.

[Ashe]

She also said, and this makes no Sense. So remember I said, I think somewhere in this that she claims that she didn't send those original text messages. Like when they started around that Halloween party, she said that she didn't send those and that the reason why she eventually started sending the text messages was to get to the bottom of who sent the original ones.

[Alaina]

No sense.

[Ashe]

That makes no sense. Sense. Two, what did talking about explicit sex acts have to do with getting to the bottom of it? And three, what would telling your daughter to kill herself, how is that going to help you uncover the real villain here? And then at one point she said, I think it was my escape. Telling your daughter to kill herself was your escape prison.

[Alaina]

I don't think that was touched upon enough in that documentary. That part of it.

[Ashe]

No. So here's the thing. It basically ends by saying that, like, Lauren, I think Lauren basically didn't get to talk to her mom during the trial, but then she. And she couldn't see her while she was in prison. But they exchanged emails. Yeah, the emails are over the top on Kendra's side of things. In my opinion. She's way too much.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

A lot of people, like, including professionals, nobody can, like, diagnose her without her being their client, whatever. But a lot of people believe that this is a case of Munchat, like digital Munchausens, which is.

[Alaina]

It appears to at least resemble that.

[Ashe]

I think it's very.

[Alaina]

I think there's even deeper, though, to be quite honest, I don't even think it ends there.

[Ashe]

So here's the thing. So that's basically, like, how the documentary ends. And like Lauren says, like, she hopes they can repair their relationship and she hopes her mom gets the help she needs.

[Alaina]

And remember, I don't know if we totally touched upon it before, but, like, that she was lying about having a job for a year.

[Ashe]

Oh, my God. We forgot to touch on that.

[Alaina]

Yeah. When the dad shows up and they actually, I. I feel her dad's name is Sean. I feel horrible for this man as well. He thought she had a job for the entire time she was doing this. And it turned out she didn't. She got fired for, you know, texting at work. Yeah. And allegedly, according to the article, they.

[Ashe]

Literally put her on a plan. Like a performance plan. Performance plan. Because she was spending too much time on outside things.

[Alaina]

According to the article.

[Ashe]

According to the article. And then she decided to leave.

[Alaina]

She quit and never told him. And just they lost houses. She was claiming to be working. And also he was lied to for the full two years about all of this including the fact that she was bringing money and wasn't because she also had control of the finances. And when he gets there, he's like, did you get her phones? Did you look at her phones? And. And the sheriff is like, phones?

[Ashe]

She gave us one.

[Alaina]

Because when they said, do you have anything else? She said, I have a laptop. And he was like, oh, no, she's got a couple of phones. Yeah. And then when they go in there and ask her for them, she acts, first of all, she's shocked that they know about that second phone. Which I was like, you're a fucking diabolical.

[Ashe]

And she tries to say like, no, there's no problem.

[Alaina]

And she's like, yeah, no, I don't know. And then he's like, one of the other sheriff is literally like, it's fine, I'll just tear this fucking house apart part like. And you can tell, he's like, give me a reason.

[Ashe]

Yeah, like, let's go. I knew everything. I knew going into that. I wouldn't have even given her the opportunity. I just ripped the house apart looking well.

[Alaina]

And he's like, I'll rip the house apart. And she's like, it's outside now that when they pulled up, she was outside.

[Ashe]

And Lauren's out like swimming. So I'm like, was your daughter sending.

[Alaina]

To her out there?

[Ashe]

Was your daughter, like enjoying her lake day swimming and you're sitting there texting her horrible things?

[Alaina]

Yeah. So she wasn't working all day and would just text Owen and Kendra or Lauren all day and all night, and they weren't. In the article, it actually says that somebody in town saw her parked in like a church parking lot one day.

[Ashe]

With her head down.

[Alaina]

In the middle of the day, like with her head down. And like, when she looked up and was like, oh, like, wave. It was Owen's father, I was gonna say. Cause it was Jill later who like said that Kendra brought it up later out of nowhere and was like, oh, he saw me. It must have been like, funny. I had spilled coffee on my lap and I was trying to like, wipe it off. And she was like, why did she bring that up?

[Ashe]

And it was like a weird thing.

[Alaina]

She knew she got caught. And it's like, so this lady for almost two years was lying to her entire family, putting her entire family at risk financially, emotionally, everything. And was spending her entire day ruthlessly texting nasty ass and death threats to her child and her child's then ex boyfriend.

[Ashe]

Yep.

[Alaina]

And sexually sitting God knows where in the middle of the day texting sexually explicit to a 12 and 13 and 14 year old boy. Like what the. Like.

[Ashe]

And also potentially creating these other. Like it does the documentary never touched on that in the article. Like very briefly touches on it, but I don't know how it all worked but could have created those accounts that were like fakes of Chloe sending messages.

[Alaina]

Yeah. Like what the.

[Ashe]

Are you kidding me?

[Alaina]

Like what is that? And it sounds like according to the article that like there was always like a very big focus on Owen.

[Ashe]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

In that family. Like that, in that, like from Kendra.

[Ashe]

Yeah. So this is a direct quote from, from the article. And they, this was, the article was written before the documentary came out. So they refer to Lauren as Ashley because they. She was still a minor at the time. So it said this is direct from the article. After Ashley started dating Owen, her mother came along too. At every opportunity, Kendra would ask them to wrap their arms around each other for a photo. Photo which Ashley would turn into presents for Owen like a personalized phone case. When they hung out at the Lacaris, Kendra would chime in, why don't you jump on the trampoline, Take a spin in Ashley's Ranger utility vehicle. Kendra talked about the kids. Jill says, quote, like they were going to be together forever. Once a friend, Paige saw Kendra take Ashley's phone, read her her daughter's text with Owen. Then as Ashley, Kendra typed out a reply, reply, I love you. And Jill says it. And again it's not taught. It's so briefly touched on in this article. But sorry, in this, in the documentary.

[Alaina]

Which I imagine they needed to leave things vague to get Kendra to agree to participate in. I'm still shocked they did.

[Ashe]

I. It was one of those things where like I was like, how did this not turn into like. We reached out to Kendra for a comment and she has never replied to us.

[Alaina]

How Netflix when she, when they, when she was like, yeah, totally. You know, they were like cameras, cameras, cameras. Like they were literally like get in the car. Like holy.

[Ashe]

Literally. It's like in Bravo and they're like, I need Andy and a camera now.

[Alaina]

Somebody like repels from the ceiling with the, with the waiver for her to sign. And it's just like, sign here, sign here.

[Ashe]

She's like, okay, yeah. But at the same time, who knows? Because in the documentary her cousin says she, this is her cousin saying she loves attention. She says, said if you were, if Kendra was here right now and you were talking to me, she would be dancing over there trying to get your.

[Alaina]

Get your attention on her. So it's like, it's bonkers.

[Ashe]

So we, we were kind of like touching upon it before how maybe they like left some things out or like didn't go too hard into some things to get Kendra to be a part of it. But one thing that they did include was Jill saying that she thought that it, like maybe, you know, there was the whole Lauren people piece, but also that maybe Kendra had some kind of infatuation with Owen.

[Alaina]

Yeah. And that was Jill thinking that.

[Ashe]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

And Owen also felt that way.

[Ashe]

Owen also felt that way. And it seems like a lot of other people felt that way. And that's where the, the Cut article kind of like goes into that a little bit more. Here's another quote. In 8th grade, Kendra signed up to coach Owen's track team, becoming, he says, like a second mom. A regular spectator at Owen's matches. She drove Ashley actually three hours across Michigan to watch one of his championship games. Once Kendra even suggested turning Owen's tournament in Florida into a Lakari family vacation, to which Jill had to gently say no.

[Alaina]

Which like Jill was probably like, okay. And like she even says it. She's like, I just thought like, okay. I guess she's just, you know, we're good friends, we're family friends.

[Ashe]

I guess maybe she's just like being supportive.

[Alaina]

Like her family's very sports focused so like maybe that they're just kind of extending it off to Owen. But like still, even she was like.

[Ashe]

It'S a little much.

[Alaina]

No, like you can, we're not doing that. Like, what the fuck?

[Ashe]

And it's like you also. They're in seventh grade. This is also around the time that these text messages start. And it seems like also around the time where her job is hanging on by a thread.

[Alaina]

Exactly.

[Ashe]

And it's like you're gonna take time off to go to Florida to watch a 12 year old compete in a championship that's not your 12 year old.

[Alaina]

Oh yeah. And also Kendra is an IT professional.

[Ashe]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

So that'll show you exactly how, you know, she got that far. It's. You can't make this shit up.

[Ashe]

It's strange.

[Alaina]

You can't make this shit up.

[Ashe]

It is strange.

[Alaina]

And obviously like Shawn, Kendra, Kendra's ex husband, now divorced her. Yeah. And I think he had complete, he has complete custody of Lauren who I, you know, they seem to be doing well together.

[Ashe]

They seem like they have a great relationship, so that's awesome.

[Alaina]

But yeah.

[Ashe]

And then I guess one final note is that Lifetime kind of made like a. Their own version loosely based on this Story. It's called Mommy Meanest, and it's the.

[Alaina]

Most time I've ever heard.

[Ashe]

I'm gonna watch it immediately because Lisa Rinna is the moment mom. And it says she is a Machiavellian brunette mother harassing her daughter. I was like, lisa Rinna.

[Alaina]

What? Ash literally was like, I'm in.

[Ashe]

I said, I'm watching it.

[Alaina]

I'm in.

[Ashe]

I don't think this documentary, mark my words, right here, right now. I don't think this documentary is the last we're gonna hear about this case. No, I think they're. I think it goes a little deeper.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

And I think there's a lot more there.

[Alaina]

I'm telling you, they could have done a part 2 just on the stuff she was saying to Owen and really focused on Lauren stuff in one and Owen in another. Because they are two different sides of the same coin.

[Ashe]

Yes.

[Alaina]

And equally as horrifying on either side. Just in totally different ways.

[Ashe]

Well, what bothers me is, like, she never. She never got charged with any, like, sexual crime.

[Alaina]

Yeah. Like, misconduct. Like, this is, like, Owens was able to say to her in her, like, hearing because they didn't get to go to, like, full trial while he said, like, I'm going to be scarred by this for life.

[Ashe]

Like, you might move on, but I won't.

[Alaina]

Yeah, he literally said, like, you'll move on, but I won't. Yeah, Like, I'm going. This is going to affect me for the rest of my life. And it will because.

[Ashe]

Oh, and sorry.

[Alaina]

That that lady was sending you that or talking about you like that.

[Ashe]

And not only that, finding out that she was sending you that. Talking to you about, like, sending texts to you about those kind of things. And then finding out that after you broke up, you and her daughter broke up.

[Alaina]

She was stalking.

[Ashe]

She was stalking your new girlfriend another town away.

[Alaina]

Like, this is a woman who, like, that's my opinion. This feels like this woman was obsessed with this little boy and would not let him move forward.

[Ashe]

Allegedly, in my opinion.

[Alaina]

Allegedly. In my opinion. That's what it feels like.

[Ashe]

100.

[Alaina]

And that's what it could look like. It would feel like that to me if I was. Oh. And I'd be like.

[Ashe]

And if I was Owen's mom and I would. Fucking up.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

So that. I think that's everything we have to say about Unknown Number, the high school catfish. I will remember this documentary as long as I breathe air on this earth.

[Alaina]

It blew my mind.

[Ashe]

I need to know if some of you guys, like, went into this not knowing who it was.

[Alaina]

Oh, please tell. I'm actually like, Jerry. I'm envious of the people who didn't get it spoiled because I got it spoiled on Tik Tok before I watched it it. And so I went in knowing. Even going and knowing I was still.

[Ashe]

It's still wild.

[Alaina]

Still blew me over. But I wonder what it must feel like to get that complete shock.

[Ashe]

There are so many. I think I said it on one of the last episodes we did. There are so many Tik Tok compilations of people finding out, just being like, what? Oh my God.

[Alaina]

I saw one the other day that was like some lady and she turned and she just goes, I knew it.

[Ashe]

I saw that.

[Alaina]

Knew it.

[Ashe]

I saw that.

[Alaina]

Like, oh, yeah, yeah.

[Ashe]

It's unthinkable.

[Alaina]

But damn.

[Ashe]

One of the. One of the most compelling documentaries I've seen in a while.

[Alaina]

I hope everyone else is thriving and doing well and healing in this story, except for Kendra. I don't give a about Kendra. Yeah.

[Ashe]

So that was our first bonus episode. It was fun to talk to you guys about a documentary. I don't think we talked about, like a film film since we did. Shockingly vile. Wickedly super nasty. Gross, Disgusting. Zac Efron.

[Alaina]

Yeah, you're right. Yeah.

[Ashe]

That was like many years ago.

[Alaina]

That was many moons ago.

[Ashe]

Many moons.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ashe]

So we hope you keep listening, we hope you enjoy the bonus episodes and.

[Alaina]

We hope you keep it weird, but.

[Ashe]

Not so weird that you don't tune into our bonus episodes which are going to happen one one Friday a month.

[Alaina]

Woohoo. Yay.

[Ashe]

Bye, girl.

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[Ashe]

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[Alaina]

What does possibility mean to you? Um, that's a hard question.

[Ashe]

Something that you can strive for.

[Alaina]

I'm able to. To do anything I set my mind to. You're confident in yourself and you believe in yourself. Stuff that you could achieve.

[Ashe]

I feel it's Sarah.

[Alaina]

Anything is possible when you're more confident. Shoes are a huge part of that.

[Ashe]

They are the most important part of my style. You can, like, express yourself in the right shoes. Anything is possible.

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