Morbid Podcast: "The Kidnapping of Patty Hearst (Part 2)"

Hosts: Ash Kelley & Alaina Urquhart
Date: September 1, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode is the second installment in Morbid’s exploration of the infamous 1974 kidnapping of Patty Hearst by the Symbionese Liberation Army (SLA). Ash and Alaina continue their immersive, research-heavy (and appropriately irreverent) approach, focusing on Patty's experience in captivity, the emotional toll on her family, and the beginnings of her apparent transformation from hostage to active SLA participant. The hosts highlight the psychological complexities at play, discuss the contemporary context, and build anticipation for future episodes—balancing dark history with heartfelt commentary and humorous asides.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Studio Vibes, Live Show Announcements, and General Updates

• The hosts open by talking about the energy shift in their podcast studio and excitement about new opportunities with SiriusXM.
  • “We opened the windows, we were like, bye rancid energy!” (02:22, Ash)
• Announcement of a second live show at the Wilbur Theatre after the first sold out in under three minutes (04:01–04:41).
• Mentions of special show merchandise and updates on their other podcast, "The ReWatcher," teasing a new season covering True Blood (05:42–06:12).

2. Acknowledgment of Recent Tragedy and Teacher Support

• The hosts address a recent school shooting in Minneapolis and share heartfelt thoughts on gun violence and the burdens placed on teachers.
  • “We need to do better than thoughts and prayers. We need to do something.” (08:52, Alaina)
  • “As soon as we've barely started the school year and there's already a school shooting, it really makes it hit a little harder how much faith and how much pressure we are putting on teachers...” (11:30, Alaina)
• Ash and Alaina invite teachers to send their Amazon wishlists to the show for support (11:00–12:15).

3. Recap of Part 1 and Transition into Part 2

• Ash provides a concise summary for new listeners, emphasizing the sociopolitical climate of the late 60s and early 70s and distinguishing the violent trajectory of the SLA from other movements.
  • “We covered a lot of the background of this era… how the youths of the time were trying to start a revolution… and how some groups were doing it very peacefully… others, the Symbionese Liberation Army, were doing things like kidnapping Patty Hearst.” (13:04, Ash)
• Transition into Part 2, focusing on Patty’s time in captivity.

4. Patty Hearst’s Captivity: Conditions and Psychological Impact

• Patty was kept in a closet (6.5 ft deep, 2 ft wide, 8 ft high) in total darkness with little room to move for extended periods (14:11–14:43).
  • “At all times, she was in total darkness... The claustrophobia must have been next level.” (14:35, Ash)
• Blindfolded whenever outside, Patty learned to distinguish her captors by their voices, noting the differences in demeanor, particularly between Donald DeFreeze (the gruff, self-important leader) and more hesitant members like Bill Harris (15:29–16:21).
  • “He [DeFreeze] told Patty she had been, ‘arrested, not kidnapped, because her father was a corporate enemy of the people.’” (15:55, Ash; 15:52 quote via DeFreeze)
• One chilling moment: DeFreeze referenced her birthday, showing detailed knowledge of her personal life (18:13).

5. SLA Tactics and the Shift in Patty’s Behavior

• The SLA limited Patty’s direct interaction to three members from similar socioeconomic backgrounds, trying to foster rapport and information gathering (19:24–19:47).
• Over time, restrictions eased and she began engaging in longer conversations about art, literature, and politics, developing connections that blurred the lines between captor and captive (24:44–25:36).
• The hosts discuss how this “humanization” of her captors, coupled with isolation and trauma, laid the groundwork for brainwashing.

6. The Statement Tapes: Worry and Guilt for the Family

• Patty’s communiqués started showing increased frustration toward her parents.
  • [Clip]: “I don't believe you're doing anything at all.” (22:15, Patty’s message)
  • Alaina’s reaction: “Knowing my child thought I wasn't doing anything to save them… might kill me where I stand.” (22:58)
• Emotional analysis of her parents’ likely guilt and helplessness (23:32–24:44).

7. Developing Relationships with SLA Members

• Notably, Patty formed a bond with Willie Wolf—another child of privilege turned radical—engaging in hours-long personal discussions (28:05–28:39).
• Willie’s own radicalization traced to his time tutoring in prison, where he met other SLA members (28:47–29:12).

8. Patty’s Transformation and the Public Break

• By early April, Patty had been a captive for almost two months. The SLA sent a communication stating Patty would be released within 72 hours, but a day later, a tape from Patty announced she had joined the SLA by choice and had taken the name "Tanya" after a revolutionary figure (34:50–35:59).
  • Notable quote (Patty, 34:50):
    “I have been given the choice of one, being released in a safe area, or two, joining the forces of the Symbionese Liberation Army and fighting for my freedom and the freedom of all oppressed people. I have chosen to stay and to fight. I have been given the name Tanya.”
• The shock and heartbreak for her family was palpable.
  • “Imagine… you get a communication, she's coming back, she's gonna be released… and then one day later she has completely flopped and is joining the army that kidnapped her in the middle of the night.” (36:35, Ash)
• Her father, Randolph Hearst, responded:
  • “We've had her for 20 years. They've had her 60 days. And I don't believe she's going to change her philosophy that quickly and that permanently… But if her choice is to become a member of an organization like this, we will still love her and she's free to do whatever she wants.” (38:16, read by Ash from press statement)

9. Debate: Brainwashing vs. Willful Participation

• The hosts engage in discussion about the reality of brainwashing:
  • “Radicalization can happen pretty quick if it's intense enough…” (39:23, Alaina)
  • “She said, ‘I have never been forced to say anything on tape, nor have I been brainwashed, drugged, tortured, hypnotized, or in any way confused. It's me the way I want it, the way I see it.’” (40:09, quoting Patty’s tape, 40:23)
  • Ash and Alaina push back, noting the effect of extended isolation, trauma, and lack of outside perspective.

10. The Hibernia Bank Robbery: Public Proof of Patty’s Status

• On April 15, 1974, Patty Hearst is filmed wielding a machine gun during a brazen, violent bank robbery, shouting,
  “This is Tanya. Patty Hearst!” as the group flees (47:09).
  • “That single, now-iconic image of Patty carrying a machine gun would come to represent the entire story in the minds of America for decades to come.” (46:36, Ash)
• Police and family initially hold out hope she was acting under duress, but security footage (showing someone armed directly behind Patty) complicates the debate.
• “We are discussing the possibility very thoroughly that this was a staged job to show off Patty Hearst as a member of their ranks.” (48:14, Police Captain Mortimer McHenry)
  • The hosts mock Patty’s decision to “announce herself” during the crime, finding it both tragic and baffling (47:09–48:46).

11. Community Reaction and Media Frenzy

• Despite official reluctance to charge Patty immediately, public and media skepticism about her "willingness" grows (52:09).
• Her parents continue to insist Patty is suffering from “prolonged struggles, fatigue and demoralization” (56:08, Ash quoting the Hearsts).

12. Patty’s Own Post-Robbery Taped Statement

• In yet another tape, Patty proclaims:
  • “My gun was loaded, and at no time did any of my comrades intentionally point their guns at me. I am obviously alive… As for being brainwashed, the idea is ridiculous to the point of being beyond belief.” (54:23)
• The hosts unpack this as classic brainwashing language, noting that believing you haven’t been manipulated is often a sign that you were (55:35–56:08).

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On the emotional state of the hosts in the new studio era:
  • "We're revitalizing and gutting it. Because the energy in this place was fucking rancid." (02:00, Alaina)
• On teachers and gun violence in schools:
  • "Every time I'm like, I am asking you to throw yourself in front of my child to be a human shield in that unthinkable event." (09:21, Alaina)
• Patty’s chilling realization:
  • "A few days into keeping her, Patty was asking when she was going to be able to go home. And Donald DeFreeze just looked at her and was like, what? You want to go home for your birthday?" (18:13, Ash referencing DeFreeze)
• Patty’s message to her family after two months in captivity:
  • "I don't believe you're doing anything at all." (22:15, Patty in recording)
• The moment Patty declares her new allegiance:
  • "I have chosen to stay and to fight. I have been given the name Tanya after a comrade who fought alongside Che in Bolivia." (34:50)
• On the trauma caused to her parents:
  • “It's something that I think is one of the most vicious things I have ever seen or ever had happen to me.” (50:32, Randolph Hearst)
• Hosts' philosophical take on brainwashing:
  • “You can be brainwashed and still believe that you’re not in the brainwashing… That’s kind of what brainwashing is all about.” (55:35, Alaina)
  • “This is a multi-layered onion here that I don’t think will ever really be understood… There’s so many things going on.” (55:38, Alaina)

Timeline of Major Events (with Timestamps)

• [14:11–14:43] – Details of Patty’s living conditions during captivity
• [18:13] – DeFreeze reveals knowledge of Patty’s birthday
• [22:15] – Patty’s tape displaying impatience and disaffection toward her parents
• [34:50–35:59] – Patty publicly announces decision to join the SLA as “Tanya”
• [47:09] – Patty wields machine gun and identifies herself at the Hibernia Bank robbery
• [54:23] – Patty’s denials of brainwashing in her post-robbery statement

Closing Notes & Next Episode Tease

The hosts end by marveling at the “evil onion” of complexity in Patty Hearst’s transformation and social impact, promising further revelations in upcoming parts (especially regarding what happened in mid-May).

Summary by PodcastMuse AI | September 2025
For listeners and true crime fans wanting both context and empathy—Morbid delivers their signature blend of dread, heart, and laughter, making history as human as it is haunting.