The Kidnapping Of Patty Hearst (Part 4)

Summary

Morbid: The Kidnapping of Patty Hearst (Part 4) – Detailed Summary

Podcast: Morbid
Hosts: Ash Kelley & Alaina Urquhart
Episode Title: The Kidnapping of Patty Hearst (Part 4)
Release Date: September 8, 2025

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Overview

Part 4 of Morbid’s deep dive into the Patty Hearst case explores the chaotic aftermath of the SLA’s (Symbionese Liberation Army) most notorious crimes, the tragic Crocker Bank robbery, the breakdown of group dynamics, and the eventual arrests, trials, and aftermath for Patty Hearst and the remaining SLA members. The episode balances grim true crime detail with the hosts’ trademark humor, skepticism, and outrage, particularly about justice, privilege, and personal responsibility.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Technical Difficulties and Housekeeping

• The hosts share that this is their second time recording the episode due to a microphone mishap—setting a self-deprecating, light tone.
  (01:39)

2. Recap and Where We Left Off

• Key events from part 3: The SLA was severely weakened after a destructive standoff and house fire; Patty had chances to leave but didn’t; surviving members joined the New World Liberation Front (NWLF).
• Discussion of Grandma Chrissy and Grandpa Tom, the neighbors who slept through the chaos.
  (05:14)

3. Descent into Chaos: The SLA Fractures and Escalates

• Post-fire, Bill Harris emerges as SLA’s less competent leader, with Patty and Emily helping to recruit a handful of new members.
  (06:40)

• The SLA operates as “NWLF” to align with broader violent leftist actions, further blurring lines and responsibilities for crimes happening nationwide.
  (07:19)

• Quote:

  "Throughout the summer of 1974, Bill, Emily, and Patty managed to add...a couple...a handful of new members to the SLA. But...Bill was a far less effective leader than Donald DeFries had been."
  — Ash (06:40)

4. Life on the Run: Summer 1974–75

• Patty, Bill, and Emily travel the country, "wanted as fuck," staying with sympathizers but directionless after the massive loss of members.
  (07:47–08:19)
• Despite being fugitives, they eventually return to San Francisco—a “bold move.”

5. Failed Re-Emergence & Robbery Attempts

• Attempting to reclaim the SLA spotlight, Bill leads a failed bank robbery at the Guild Bank (Feb 25, 1975)—well planned, quick (90 seconds), but nets only $3,000.
  (09:51–11:48)

  • The crew deems even this meager take a “success.”

• Immediately, they set sights on a grander heist: the Crocker National Bank robbery in Carmichael (April 21, 1975), meticulously scoped by Patty, who prepares floor plans.
  (12:55–13:41)

  • Quote:

    "Patty scoped that out and she actually drew a map from memory...Damn. Put a pin in that skill. Yeah. And maybe use it for better..."
    — Ash & Alaina (13:18)

6. The Crocker Bank Robbery and Murder of Myrna Opsal

• Plans fall apart as a local church mother, Myrna Opsal, is shot and killed by Emily Harris after she hesitates amid the chaos.
  (14:42–17:49)

  • Ash and Alaina’s horror and outrage are palpable:
    • "You decided that it was important to shoot this woman who just came from her church, who was unarmed and holding an adding machine."
      — Alaina (17:47)
    • "Your whole goal, allegedly, was to not hurt anyone."
      — Ash (18:18)
    • "[Emily Harris said], So what if she got shot? Her husband’s a doctor. She’s a bourgeois pig."
      — Emily Harris (quoted by Ash & Alaina) (24:09)
    • Alaina responds: "Oh, shut the fuck up." (24:11)

• The hosts dissect Emily’s callous ideology, the shattering of the SLA's “revolutionary” veneer, and the personal devastation inflicted on Myrna’s family.
  (24:09–25:11)

• In practical terms, even this “bigger” job nets just $15,000, not the $100,000 hoped for.
  (25:51)

7. Aftermath, Dissolution, and Capture

• The SLA’s violence, now including the murder of Wilbert “Popeye” Jackson, draws intense law enforcement pressure.

• Remaining members spend summer “studying the Anarchist Cookbook” and writing manifestos, but criminal activities (like bomb attempts) all flop.
  (27:12–27:57)

• Internal fractures: Patty eventually cuts herself off from Bill and Emily, moving in with new associates.

• Arrests:

  • The FBI tails the now-mundane routines of SLA members. Bill and Emily are arrested while doing laundry (30:09).

  • Patty is arrested without incident, and upon booking, gives her name as “Tania” and occupation as “urban guerrilla.”
    (34:08)

  • Quote:

    "When they asked her what her occupation was, she told them: Urban gorilla."
    — Ash (34:25)
    — Alaina: "I would have laughed really hard. I'm sorry." (34:29)

8. Trials, Justice, and Public Perception

• Patty’s father assembles a powerhouse legal defense led by famed attorney F. Lee Bailey.

• Host debate—was Patty a brainwashed victim or a willing participant? Both hosts side with uncertainty:

  • "Two things can be true at once...She could have been completely traumatized...and also realized, I'm into this and decided to actively participate."
    — Alaina (39:49–39:59)

• Patty is tried for the Hibernia Bank robbery and found guilty, sentenced to seven years (serves just over two), her sentence commuted by President Jimmy Carter thanks to Hearst family lobbying.
  (38:24–45:34)

• Notable moment: Patty’s dismissive post-release statement:

  • "For a young person not quite 25, I've done an awful lot of things. Some of them unusual. I've learned an awful lot about people."
    — Patty Hearst, quoted by Ash (46:01)

  • Alaina and Ash sharply critique the lack of remorse or acknowledgment for her actions.
    (46:19–47:26)

9. Delayed Justice for Myrna Opsal

• Years pass with no accountability for Myrna’s murder.
• In 1999, America's Most Wanted airs the case, and “Kathy Soliah” (Sarah Jane Olson) is identified living as a suburban wife and mother in Minnesota.
  (50:18–52:18)
  • Hosts’ outrage at her hypocrisy (denigrating “bourgeois pigs,” then becoming one herself) is a highlight.
• Sarah/Kathy pleads guilty to explosives charges, tries for a plea withdrawal, fails, and receives a 10-to-life sentence.
  (54:25–54:40)
• New evidence finally enables convictions of the SLA members involved in the murder and robbery (Crocker), including Emily and Bill Harris, Mike Borton, James Kilgore, and Sarah Jane Olson.
  (55:15–56:44)
  • All serve time — even if sentences now seem minimal by modern standards.

10. Reflection & Aftermath

• Ash and Alaina reflect on the complexity of the Hearst saga, the failures and triumphs of justice, and Patty’s later philanthropic work.
• They spotlight the determination of Myrna Opsal’s family in securing accountability, and remind listeners: “A cold case is never cold.”
  (57:31)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Nothing's worse. Nothing in the whole world. In the whole galaxy."
  — Alaina (describing recording mishaps, 01:46)

• "I wonder." (about the success of the robbery)
  — Alaina (11:12)
  Ash: "Well, the plan did work relatively well..."

• "[The SLA] are really bad at errands."
  — Alaina (26:17)

• "Emily Harris is an asshole."
  — Ash (19:13)

• "[On Patty’s raised fist at arrest:] ...which indicated that the latter was the truth."
  — Ash (34:08)

• "Armed robbery. That's just... you know, think of how crazy that is, though. She is the heiress to one of the richest families in the entire world, and she's serving seven years."
  — Ash (38:29–38:41)

• "That's fucking reckless and dangerous and violent. Regardless of whether you're brainwashed or not, you are alone in a car with a set of keys, and you chose to shoot into a sporting goods store and possibly kill children in there."
  — Alaina (46:51–47:07)

• "You just after talking shit about said woman who you killed. You married a doctor and just settled in St. Paul, Minnesota, and went on to have children and live a regular life."
  — Ash (51:55)

• "Poetic justice."
  — Alaina (57:51) (about all facing some level of consequence)

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Important Timestamps

• 05:14 — Recap of SLA’s collapse & introductions
• 07:44 — Surviving SLA go on the run
• 09:51 — Guild Bank robbery
• 13:41 — Prepping for Crocker Bank job
• 14:42 — Myrna Opsal enters, leading to her murder
• 17:49 — Immediate aftermath, group discussion about the killing
• 24:09 — Emily’s infamous “bourgeois pig” justification
• 34:08 — Patty’s booking, “urban guerrilla” moment
• 38:24 — Patty’s trial and verdict
• 45:34 — Carter commutes Patty’s sentence
• 50:18 — America’s Most Wanted leads to arrest of Sarah Jane Olson
• 55:15 — New evidence, delayed convictions for Myrna’s murder
• 57:31 — Reflection on justice for Opsal family

---

Tone & Style

Morbid’s blend of empathy, gallows humor, and exasperated social commentary shines throughout. Ash and Alaina critique the actions and rationalizations of the key players, show sympathy for victims, and are not shy about denouncing injustice or hypocrisy. The covered material is graphic, heavy, and thought-provoking, but made approachable by the hosts’ banter, honesty, and warmth.

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Conclusion

This final installment on the Patty Hearst case unpacks the messy truth behind headlines: trauma and agency can coexist; justice is haphazard; privilege and ideology often collide peevishly with reality. The podcast highlights not just what the SLA did, but the long-term consequences for victims and for society’s understanding of victimhood, brainwashing, and complicity.

In the end, though delayed and partial, some form of justice is served—not least, thanks to persistent victims’ families and the public’s enduring interest in accountability. Through it all, Ash & Alaina keep the narrative engaging, questioning, and, occasionally, darkly hilarious.

Transcript

[Alaina]

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[Ash]

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[Alaina]

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[Ash]

Part of, well, everything. From first steps to first dates, from all nighters to all time personal best.

[Alaina]

From building pillow forts to building a.

[Ash]

Mud for all the big and small moments that make up your whole world. DSW is there and we've got just the shoes. Find a shoe for every you from brands you love at brag worthy prices at your DSW store or dsw dot com. Hey, weirdos. I'm Ash.

[Alaina]

And I'm Alaina.

[Ash]

And this is morbid.

[Alaina]

For a second time recording the same episode.

[Ash]

Oh, you guys.

[Alaina]

Nothing's worse.

[Ash]

Nothing's worse.

[Alaina]

Nothing in the whole world. In the whole galaxy.

[Ash]

So many things are a lot worse.

[Alaina]

But we recorded the entire episode.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

And right after we said, huh, that was a good episode. And then we said, oh, no or no, My mic was unplugged.

[Ash]

Yeah, it was a collective Pod Lab mistake because we were all cleaning the Pod Lab and your microphone got unplugged and none of us replugged it in, so.

[Alaina]

None of us. A bunch of buffoons. So it was all three of our faults. Yeah. And here we are.

[Ash]

Let's go. All right, well, before we get into the case, we do have some bid nasty at the top of the show, honey.

[Alaina]

Bid nasty.

[Ash]

We got bid nasty. Tickets go on sale at noon today, if you're listening. On Monday.

[Alaina]

If you're nasty.

[Ash]

If you're nasty. Yeah. Tickets for our live show, the second show that we added, which will be Sunday, September 28th at the Wilba. Those tickets are on sale at noon today, Monday, September 8th.

[Alaina]

Yep.

[Ash]

So that's exciting.

[Alaina]

It's going to be the same show as the. The show on the 26th. Yep. Just so you know. So you don't think it's going to be a different show?

[Ash]

It's not.

[Alaina]

It'll be the same one. But we can't wait to see you there.

[Ash]

I'm so excited. We're going to tell a lot of you that weekend. M. I can't wait.

[Alaina]

It's gonna be exciting.

[Ash]

Also, our bonus episode is coming out this Friday, September 12th. 12th.

[Alaina]

12Th.

[Ash]

September 12th. And we're gonna be talking about unknown number, the high school catfish. I have now watched that documentary. Everybody, do yourself a fucking favor. Sit down, get comfortable, and get ready for your jaw to be on the motherfucking ground.

[Alaina]

On the flow.

[Ash]

I knew going into it. The twist.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And still I was somehow like, is it that person or is like, this is that person?

[Alaina]

I almost said this is shock. This is shock and awe. Yeah. It's gonna be exciting to talk about. It's gonna be a little. A little crazy to talk about.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

But we thought it deserved its own bonus episode. We were gonna do it along with the Amy Bradley documentary. Like, do it a little. A little twofer in the bonus episode. But honestly, they're gonna get their own.

[Ash]

Yeah. There's a lot to talk about with both. Because the Amy Bradley documentary. We were talking about it after we said we were gon. And then I was like, well, the Amy Bradley documentary is, like, three episodes.

[Alaina]

Very, like, in depth, and there's a lot of theories and there's just a lot of stuff to talk about. So we didn't want to cram it into a bonus episode.

[Ash]

And same thing with unknown number High school catfish. So get ready for Friday. Go watch that. We'll be talking about it.

[Alaina]

And remember, bonus episodes are once a month, and they are in addition to the regular episodes. They are not taking up one of the episodes in the week. You will get three episodes in one week, once a month.

[Ash]

Aren't you so lucky?

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Okay, so let's get into the episode again.

[Alaina]

This is a great episode.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

Now I know I can say that.

[Ash]

Thank you. Thank you so much right off the bat.

[Alaina]

I appreciate it from the jump. This is a wild episode. It is.

[Ash]

It's not as wild as part three.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

But it's pretty wild.

[Alaina]

But wild in a different way. Yeah.

[Ash]

And I think I said this at the. At some point in part three, the way I split them. I feel like I had to because so many different events take place.

[Alaina]

Yeah. So.

[Ash]

So I was like, let me just.

[Alaina]

It makes perfect sense the way it's split, because they are really like groupings of events that happened. They are differently and independently on different days. On different days.

[Ash]

So last time we talked, the. Basically, the destruction of the SLA had occurred with that house fire and the standoff between where Grandma Chrissy was so.

[Alaina]

Lit, she slept through.

[Ash]

Grandma Chrissy. Don't forget about Grandpa Joe.

[Alaina]

Grandpa Tom.

[Ash]

Oh, Grandpa. I was thinking about Grandpa Joe from Willy Wonka, because I made a reference about that this morning to my mom, which is. Which sounds terrible, but it was really funny.

[Alaina]

She thought it was hilarious.

[Ash]

We're from Boston. We have a good sense of humor.

[Alaina]

That's how. That's how we love each other in her little bed.

[Ash]

And I said, ma, do you feel like Crappy Joe? She said, yeah, Yeah, I do.

[Alaina]

She thinks I'm hilarious.

[Ash]

So Crap Tom, who they had kidnapped. Patty had the chance to leave multiple times at this point, but stayed and doubled down after that house fire because she was so upset. And now the sla, like, the remaining members and the new people they were scooping up, claimed that they were a part of this kind of, like, overarching organization, which was the New World Liberation Front, which it's. That's a lot of words. So I'm just gonna call it the nwlf.

[Alaina]

Yeah. Which is, like. I feel like it's never a good thing when a. When a smaller company gets eaten up by a bigger one.

[Ash]

No.

[Alaina]

I feel like that's the kiss of death.

[Ash]

It is the kiss of death. Anyway.

[Alaina]

I mean, people, we've seen it happen. Yeah. You've seen many examples.

[Ash]

Everyone's.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Happen. So throughout the summer of 1974, Bill, Emily, and Patty managed to add, like I was just saying, a couple, you know, a handful of new members to the sla. But it was with Bill leading, and it turned out that he was a far less effective leader than Donald defries had been.

[Alaina]

I could see that.

[Ash]

Yeah. And like I said at the end of Three, Part Three, the future of the SLA definitely seemed way more uncertain than it ever had. And now with pretty much anybody being able to operate in the name of the nwlf, so many, like, awful, violent occurrences were going down all over the United States. There was bombings, assassination attempts, and they're.

[Alaina]

All yelling in the name of.

[Ash]

Yeah. Even if it's not like. Even if these acts are committed by individuals who are not part of the nwlf, it's giving them a worse name than they already have.

[Alaina]

Yeah. It's like collateral damage.

[Ash]

They also didn't Have a good name to begin with. No, it really is similar to so many things we know about. Anyway, so fully aware of their disadvantaged position, Bill, Emily, and Patty decided to go on the run again. Because, remember, they're wanted as fuck.

[Alaina]

Run.

[Ash]

You know, run so far away.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Over the course of the summer and fall, they traveled all around the United States. They stayed with other activists or people who knew them and sympathized in New York, Pennsylvania, plenty of places across the US where they were less likely to be recognized than they were in California. And they told themselves it was all part of the effort to regroup and develop a new strategy.

[Alaina]

Yeah, man.

[Ash]

But in all reality, they had absolutely no idea what to do next or how to bounce back from. I mean, what was a devastating loss to them of losing six core SLA members, including the leader?

[Alaina]

Yeah. No matter what. Those were their friends, I suppose. Yeah.

[Ash]

Not iconic people.

[Alaina]

Yeah. For what they were doing.

[Ash]

Not great people, but, yeah. So they were broke, they were tired. And at this point, they were pretty much driven only by the will to.

[Alaina]

Survive, which, you know, aren't we all? I'm driven by the will to survive humans, you know.

[Ash]

So by January 1975, they decided to go back to California, which I was like, why?

[Alaina]

I can tell them that's probably the wrong move.

[Ash]

Not only California, but they settled back in San Francisco, where everything had started. Like, where they had kidnapped Patty almost a year earlier.

[Alaina]

Bold move. Let's see if it works out for them.

[Ash]

One of the boldest. Yeah. Let's see. So in the course of their travels, they picked up a couple new members, including Mike Borton, James Kilgore, Steve Salaya, and Kathleen Salaya, also known as Kathy. Kfkf, the sla. And the stories about Patty Hearst had kind of stopped taking up the front pages of the newspaper. And, you know, radio stations were talking about it less and less. And that was pissing Bill off because he's the new leader of the sla. He wants the SLA known. So he decided that it was time for the group to reassert themselves and make their presence known.

[Alaina]

Or you could just, like, go about.

[Ash]

Your lives, or you could just, like, stop trying to make a name for.

[Alaina]

This random thing you made up. Yeah, just. It's okay. You can move on.

[Ash]

I'm sure somebody was like, I'm tired of this, Grandpa. And Bill was like, too damn bad.

[Alaina]

And Bill said, too dang bad.

[Ash]

Too dang bad.

[Alaina]

But.

[Ash]

And, well, that's the thing. He said, that's too dang bad. And he Said, we need some money for guns and supplies. So on February 25, 1975, Michael Borton and James Kilgore entered the Guild bank in San Francisco armed with shotguns and revolvers. Because they did have guns. They just wanted more.

[Alaina]

Of course. We always want more.

[Ash]

Well, of everything. Remember, they had, like, a pile of guns in part three, and then also they lost a ton in the big house fire.

[Alaina]

Oh, yeah, that. You know, Grandma Chrissy slept through. Yeah.

[Ash]

Our queen Chrissy. Pour one out. Definitely pour it out.

[Alaina]

Pour it out. Yeah. So, Bill, drink some water, man.

[Ash]

Yeah, hydrate. Get a liquid iv. Not even sponsored, but we love them. So Bill spent weeks planning this robbery. And they all agreed that they wanted to use the same method that they had used in the Hibernia robbery the year before.

[Alaina]

I mean, it worked.

[Ash]

It worked.

[Alaina]

Yes.

[Ash]

So they figured, let's be out in 90 seconds. We don't want to hurt anybody. That's not our intention.

[Alaina]

Sick.

[Ash]

And they said, you know, hopefully we'll make it out with enough to fund ourselves for the foreseeable future.

[Alaina]

I wonder.

[Ash]

Well, the plan did work relatively well. They moved. And also. You don't wonder because you. You couldn't even say it earnestly. I could have said, I wonder. I wonder. Well, in case, for those of you out there who don't know are wondering, the plan worked.

[Alaina]

Well.

[Ash]

They moved in the allotted amount of time. That. 90. 90 seconds. Yeah, 90 seconds.

[Alaina]

It was 90 seconds.

[Ash]

That's like a.

[Alaina]

That's less than two minutes.

[Ash]

You're correct.

[Alaina]

A minute and a half better. You're correct.

[Ash]

Less than two minutes. That's crazy. That just hit me how crazy it is. So they moved in that time. But the problem was the Guild bank was not nearly as large or as busy as the Hibernia Bank. So they only came away with about $3,000, which is not a lot for your trouble. Yeah, it really wasn't a lot of trouble. They still considered the operation a success. I mean, they were $3,000 richer. I'm not. And no one got hurt about that. No one got hurt.

[Alaina]

Success.

[Ash]

And it proved, if nothing else to Bill and the others, that Even without Donald DeFries and the original SLA members, they were still capable of pulling off a robbery and doing it pretty well.

[Alaina]

And it's like, okay. I mean, not great. Like, we don't want to rob.

[Ash]

That's not in my 2026 goals, I don't think.

[Alaina]

Like, that's not how you lock in, you know, like, you don't just start robbing, but you did. It was little. Maybe that's your. That's your sweet spot.

[Ash]

Maybe.

[Alaina]

You know, probably. But I feel like they went. They went too hard, but I don't know. Well, you do.

[Ash]

Because now, energized and encouraged by the success of the robbery at the Guild Bank. Elena's foreshadowing a little bit.

[Alaina]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ash]

The group immediately started planning their next operation with eyes on a larger bank and a larger hall.

[Alaina]

See, because no one can ever just.

[Ash]

Be like, happy with a little happy. Just take what you.

[Alaina]

Sometimes it's good to want more and like, be like charging forward for more and want to be better and all that. Totally. Yeah. In most circumstances. Yeah. Just on this one.

[Ash]

Not bank robbery.

[Alaina]

I'm going to encourage you to rest on your laurels here.

[Ash]

That's the. There's always. There's a time and a place for everything.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And this is the time and place to rest on your laurel for laurels. So throughout the first few weeks of April, Patty and Emily, they were helping out by scoping out a new location for the robbery. There was the bank of America in Marysville, a small town about 40 miles outside of Sacramento. Patty scoped that out and she actually drew a map from memory, like a. A floor plan which like.

[Alaina]

Damn. Put a pin in that skill. Yeah. And maybe use it for better.

[Ash]

Maybe use it for taking tests.

[Alaina]

Yeah. Because that's pretty great.

[Ash]

Yeah. And then there was also the Crocker national bank in Carmichael, and that was also another suburb just outside of Sacramento. So after weighing their options, they decided, let's go with Crocker bank because it was busier. And as far as they could tell, it didn't look like they had security cameras.

[Alaina]

And I bet they weren't hiding them.

[Ash]

Yeah. No, don't ever do that.

[Alaina]

Yeah. Never.

[Ash]

I'm like, obviously don't do that. Obviously they're gonna do that. Especially like this period.

[Alaina]

Yeah. Put them in places that you're not going to immediately recognize. Yeah.

[Ash]

Well, this is like the mid-70s, when California, I think, was like the bank. We talked about it in a recent case, that crazy robbery that I covered.

[Alaina]

Yeah. It's like the bank robbery capital of the world.

[Ash]

Yeah. At least like the. The U.S. yeah. But anyway, they didn't think they had security cameras, so that was pretty stupid. But with their choices made, Bill started devising a strategy for what they all expected would be a big step up in terms of reward. So on the morning of April 21, 42 year old Myrna Opsol drove to her church to pick up the collection money, and then she took it over to Crocker bank like she had done countless times before. As she walked into the bank, she had a small adding machine in one hand and the deposit, not the other. And so a young man later identified as Mike Borton, held open the door for her, and she said, thank you, and she stepped inside.

[Alaina]

You know what would have been nice of Mike Borton to do?

[Ash]

To tell her not to come in.

[Alaina]

Hey, girly, you shouldn't come in here right now. Yep. Just, like, turn her away. You got 90 seconds. Get it done. Get out. And this nice lady doesn't have to be part of this.

[Ash]

And you would think that less people would make it easier. Like you have less people to manage.

[Alaina]

Exactly.

[Ash]

Just tell her, go. Hold on a second.

[Alaina]

Yeah. You could even act as, like, a secret secure, like a bank employee and be like, oh, we just, like, you can come in in, like, 10 minutes. We're just doing something.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

You know, make something up.

[Ash]

Exactly. But no, he held open the door.

[Alaina]

He said, come on in.

[Ash]

That's such a good point.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So she, at that point, didn't notice the three other individuals who had slipped in behind her. And it probably really wouldn't have made a difference if she had anyway.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Myrna hadn't even made it very far into the lobby of the bank when she heard a man's voice yell, everybody down on the ground. Get the. On the floor. I can't imagine the fear that would shoot through your body at that moment.

[Alaina]

Fear and, like, anger.

[Ash]

Because you'd be like.

[Alaina]

Because having another, like, a pure human being be like, get the. On the floor.

[Ash]

I'd be like, you like, you know, like, immediately. I just like, who the.

[Alaina]

Do you think, you know, that we.

[Ash]

Have such different reactions. I'd piss my.

[Alaina]

Oh, I would piss my bill. Like, make no mistake. I would myself, like, they're insane.

[Ash]

But, you know, but there would be this, like, little.

[Alaina]

And probably later the anger would really.

[Ash]

Hit where you're like, you coming in.

[Alaina]

Here demanding of me, like, who are you?

[Ash]

You're my. You're.

[Alaina]

I'm an adult. Like, here.

[Ash]

You can't tell me what to do.

[Alaina]

Don't piss me off.

[Ash]

Yeah. I'd be terrified and angry and upset and all kinds of things.

[Alaina]

All the feelings.

[Ash]

Well, by that time, Borton, Kilgore Salaya, Kathy Salaya, and Emily Harris had all covered their faces with ski masks and they were waving their guns in the air. Patty was outside in a getaway car, ready to make their escape. As soon as everybody emerged from the bank and inside, Kathy Salaya moved toward the line of tellers and just started shouting for them to fill the bag she had with cash in the drawers. While at the same time, Borton managed the crowd and James Kilgore guarded the door. Okay, so having unsheathed her shotgun from underneath her large coat, Emily Harris started counting down the time. Because they want to be out of there in 90 seconds, just as they had done in the previous two robberies. Startled and confused, though, because this is a really jarring experience. Myrna Opsal hesitated when Borton told everybody to get on the ground. And she also was holding an adding machine and the deposit. So she was kind of, like, fumbling with everything and was also probably so scared that she didn't get down fast enough.

[Alaina]

Yeah, people freeze sometimes.

[Ash]

Oh, I freeze every time.

[Alaina]

I'm scared of something. It's a thing.

[Ash]

So at that moment, Emily Harris raised her gun and pointed it at Myrna, hoping the threat would motivate her to get down. But it didn't. She's terrified. And everything happened so quickly, without any warning. All sound in the lobby was blocked out as the shotgun rang out, as.

[Alaina]

Emily Harris pulled the trigger.

[Ash]

Emily Harris pulled the trigger and sent a slug into Myrna Apsal's side.

[Alaina]

Wow.

[Ash]

Which immediately shot her down to the ground.

[Alaina]

So you decided that it was important to shoot this woman who just came from her church, who was unarmed and holding an adding machine.

[Ash]

Yup.

[Alaina]

And was terrified.

[Ash]

Yep.

[Alaina]

Like, that felt like a threat. Well, and also, the thing like, where was the threat?

[Ash]

You. Where was the threat? She's just scared. She's probably just like a deer in headlights. Yeah, like. Like you said, not threatening at all.

[Alaina]

No.

[Ash]

Also, like, I hate saying anything like this, but you could have just pushed her down.

[Alaina]

Yeah, you could.

[Ash]

Instead of shooting her. Because your whole goal, allegedly, was to not hurt anyone.

[Alaina]

And it doesn't sound like that was the goal. Yeah. Because if your initial. If your immediate reaction when a nice lady holding an adding machine in her deposit from her church for the week is terrified in front of you and your first reaction is to shoot her in the side with a fucking shotgun, you did not go in there with the intention of being, like, not hurting someone. No, I won't buy that for one second.

[Ash]

Not at all.

[Alaina]

There's nothing that could get me to shoot an innocent person with a shotgun. Like, it just wouldn't happen.

[Ash]

It's also such a convenient story. Like, oh, I didn't want to hurt anybody. It was just a mistake. When the whole entire point of this was to get the SLA's name back in the papers.

[Alaina]

Exactly.

[Ash]

And back at the top of the top of nuisance and media.

[Alaina]

And I love it because, like, and we'll get to it, but she loves to, you know, disengage from the actual.

[Ash]

Emily Harris is an asshole.

[Alaina]

She should know that. She should know that.

[Ash]

So in that moment, everybody in the lobby, including the other robbers, the other members of the sla, seemed stunned by what had happened. But Michael Borton quickly got things under control and he just started shouting for everybody to get their faces on the floor. With the order restored then Kathy resumed going down the teller line while Emily just kept counting down the seconds. And on the floor in front of her, Myrna Apsal was slumped in a rapidly expanding pool of blood. Like she's dying on the floor right now.

[Alaina]

She just got shot in the stomach with a shotgun.

[Ash]

When they hit 90 seconds, Emily called out the time and everybody abandoned their positions and made a break for it it outside. Michael Borton jumped into one car and got the hell out of there. And Patty and the others followed close behind in her van. Okay. Last night I had such a conflict in my life. I was wearing this brand new, really cute set. It was pink and like really cozy. But I was also making a red sauce. And for some reason, even on simmer, that sauce was bubbling all over the place. And it popped up, up big giant bubbles of red tomato sauce all over my brand new light pink set. And I was really angry for a second. But then I said, it's actually fine because I use Tide free and gentle. And Tide free and gentle has your back, honey. It delivers a powerful clean without perfumes, dyes or irritants. It's a hundred percent hypoallergenic care, which is good because I also have sensitive skin. There's a lot going on in my life. It's a concentrated formula, and that means less waste, zero extra water, and more time for your next true crime Deep dive. It even works in cold water. Talk about cracking a cold case, honey. No coverups or compromises here. If it's got to be clean, it's got to be tied free and gentle. Ah, DSW Earth. Place of the humble. Brag here. The shoes are so good, no one would ever know how little you paid if you didn't go telling everyone that is. And with never ending options for every style, mood and occasion, all at really great prices, they'll definitely give you something to brag about. So go ahead, stock up on fresh Sneakers from your favorite brands, or try those boots you always secretly knew you could pull off. Find the shoes that get you at prices that get your budget at DSW stores [e-mail]. let us surprise you later. Patty said there was a very odd tension and an odd silence as they drove.

[Alaina]

You know what you say?

[Ash]

She said, everybody kind of removed their masks and just looked just, like, freaked out. The silence was finally broken, though, by stupid Emily who said, maybe she'll live. And James Kilgore looked at her and said, no, I saw her like, she's not gonna make it back inside. The staff of the bank, who's also traumatized. Yeah, they scramble to lock the door and call the police while also going to Myrna's side to help her. Bank teller Rachel Harp said, later, when we got the towels to put on, the wounds, they just went right through her.

[Alaina]

Oh, that. So she was.

[Ash]

She was, like, ripped apart. So the ambulance arrived quickly and transported Myrna to the hospital, American River Hospital. And she was rushed into surgery. And immediately they recognized her as the wife of one of the emergency doctors on the staff, Dr. Trigva Opsol. And the staff contacted him immediately. So he rushed to the hospital and joined it on the effort to save his wife's life.

[Alaina]

That is unthinkable.

[Ash]

I can't imagine the absolute just, like, desperation he must have felt. And you're sitting there trying to do these clinical things that are gonna save somebody's life, but this isn't just somebody. This is your wife. This is your life partner.

[Alaina]

Yeah, I can't even conceive of that.

[Ash]

No. So, unfortunately, though, Myrna was almost dead when she arrived at the hospital, and there was nothing they could have done to save her. The damage had already been done. And remember, she was laying on the floor while the rest of this went down. Like, if she was going to be saved, she would have needed attention. Right.

[Alaina]

Right away. Yeah.

[Ash]

And she was robbed of that. So in the end, Dr. Trigva had to be pulled away from her because he just kept trying to do more things to save her, but they were like, it's not gonna work.

[Alaina]

Oh, that's so sad.

[Ash]

And they had to move her to the morgue at that point. The remaining members of the SLA had managed to avoid any direct experiences with that kind of violence. The. The people who were part of the SLA now weren't there when Marcus Foster was murdered, and none of them had been at the house in South Central when the police raided it. And they were all very upset Most of them, James Kilgore, blamed it on Emily being nervous and fiddling with the gun. Bill and Emily, on the other hand, though, tried to play it off like it was just the price of revolution. Emily, stupid. Emily literally said, so what if she got shot? Her husband's a doctor. She's a bourgeois pig.

[Alaina]

Oh, shut the fuck up.

[Ash]

Like, get.

[Alaina]

She married some. Oh, she married someone who went to medical school. She married someone that makes her like. Like abortion justifies her being shot in the side while she's unarmed and doing nothing wrong.

[Ash]

No, it just makes you feel better about yourself. And also.

[Alaina]

Exactly.

[Ash]

She married a doctor who saves an ER doctor who saves people's lives. Who, if you were in a life threatening incident or any kind of incident, would save your life.

[Alaina]

If you had. If something had happened during the course of that robbery and you were brought to the hospital where he worked, he would actually have an oath to take care of you and save your life.

[Ash]

But, but, but yeah, she's supposed to be the asshole mother.

[Alaina]

A mother.

[Ash]

Yep.

[Alaina]

Who did. Innocent mother. Doing nothing wrong.

[Ash]

Yep.

[Alaina]

Holding an adding machine and terrified.

[Ash]

And holding. Holding an adding machine in her church's deposit.

[Alaina]

She deserved it.

[Ash]

Like, go fuck it.

[Alaina]

It's just like, come on. Your whole message is just completely gone. Like any message you guys thought you had with that is like, bye.

[Ash]

Yeah, exactly. Well, they reasoned, Bill and Emily, that if Myrna hadn't been standing there when the gun went off, James would have been shot. So he would have been killed. And it's like, okay, is that supposed to be like. First of all, Myrna's a sacrifice here.

[Alaina]

Oh, cool. So the gun just went off. Yeah, exactly.

[Ash]

You had no girl.

[Alaina]

You trace yourself from that act. And also, maybe the gun shouldn't have gone off. Maybe you shouldn't have pulled the trigger to shoot the gun in the first place. Since you went in there not wanting to hurt anyone and Myrna did nothing.

[Ash]

To threaten you, maybe you guys all should have gotten a job and stopped robbing banks.

[Alaina]

Yeah, stop being dicks.

[Ash]

Exactly. Well, despite their attempts at being the most nonchalant on the planet, it was clear that the. The robbery had been botched and the death had of Myrna. The murder, I should say, had shaken everybody. They had all been hoping that the bank job also would get them about a hundred thousand dollars. But in the end, the takeaway was a little over 15.

[Alaina]

Wow.

[Ash]

15,000.

[Alaina]

So they're not even good at research.

[Ash]

They're not good at research, execution, Any of the above.

[Alaina]

They're really bad at Errands, you remember from part three? Yeah, they're wicked bad at errands.

[Ash]

Terrible. So in the weeks and months that followed, they started laying low because now they're wanted. And they'd been all been identified by bank tellers as the remaining members of the sla, including Patty. So they were all wanted for armed. Armed robbery and murder. By the summer of 1975, the NWLF was also claiming credit for the murder of Wilbert Popeye Jackson, who was president of the United Prison Union and actually a one time associate of the sla.

[Alaina]

Oh, wow.

[Ash]

But he was killed along with his girlfriend. So the fact that he had been killed, Myrna Opsal had been killed during the robbery of the Crocker Bank. All of that together caused everybody to be like, what the fuck is going on here? Like, you need to put a stop to these people just creating violence, inciting violence.

[Alaina]

And it's like there's no message here. It's just violence for violence sake at this point.

[Ash]

Exactly. So everybody was calling for law enforcement to just put an end to this, especially around California. And within a few months, the main players and the nwlf, like the higher ranking people started getting arrested one after the other. So it was only a matter of time before they started coming after the sla. So they spent the members of the SLA spent the summer studying the Anarchist Cookbook and perfecting their bomb making skills. Losers. But aside from a few bombs that they placed under police cars in San Francisco that all failed to go off by the way, their activities went pretty much unnoticed because they were really bad at everything. When they weren't developing their criminal skills, Patty, Bill and Emily spent their time working on a manuscript manifesto they had been writing.

[Alaina]

Yeah, that word better show up in one of these.

[Ash]

You know, a manifesto is always part of something like this.

[Alaina]

Always.

[Ash]

But in a rather strange turn, events. After almost two years of running and hiding, the months after the Crocker robbery were kind of the closest thing to normal life any of them had experienced in a while.

[Alaina]

It's like, you can feel this way. Yeah, continue doing stupid shit.

[Ash]

Exactly. It might have been the feeling of normalcy and the kind of stability that was going on that caused them to let their guard down. Oops. Or who knows if it was subconsciously because everybody wanted out of this and wanted it to come to an end. But whatever the case, in late August the relationships within the group were starting to deteriorate. Especially the one between Patty and the Harrises. In early September, she decided she was going to leave the safe house that they established, and she wanted to move in with Steve Salaya and Wendy Yoshimura. And she actually said that she wanted to cut Bill and Emily off entirely.

[Alaina]

Wow.

[Ash]

She didn't want to talk to them anymore.

[Alaina]

Damn.

[Ash]

Yeah. Before that, they had kind of settled into, like, a weird domestic routine. I don't know, like, what the ins and outs of their relationship was, but it sounds like it was a little bit strange. Like they were all kind of like.

[Alaina]

Living together and so in, like, almost relationships we can't define.

[Ash]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. But it also quickly started to kind of resemble the relationship that Patty had with Steve, her old fiance, because it was just mundane and, you know, boring.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And remember, that was not for her at all.

[Alaina]

Nope.

[Ash]

So that's kind of why she wanted to leave. So ironically, though, in the end, their mundane day to day proved to be their undoing. Throughout the investigation, FBI agents had identified and located Kathy Salaya. And they identified her as the link between the Crocker bank robbery and the original SLA members, including Patty Hearst.

[Alaina]

Oh, damn.

[Ash]

So once they were able to determine where she was living, they figured it was only a matter of time before Kathy would lead them to the others. So they had. They had agents watching Kathy around the clock. They followed her everywhere she went at all times.

[Alaina]

Wow.

[Ash]

And eventually that paid off. On the morning of September 18, FBI agents spotted Bill Harris at a Laundromat. They followed him back to his apartment, just like I told you so. Normal ass life. So they followed him back to his apartment, and they quickly arrested Emily and Bill there. So disappointed but undaunted, FBI lead agent Charlie Bates scheduled a press conference for later that afternoon. And he started preparing his statement, which probably would have been something like, we're pleased to announce the arrest of Bill and Emily Harris, and you know, we remain committed to finding Patricia Hearst, but we haven't done that yet.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And it probably would have gone out that way had it not been for two thorough investigators who decided to circle back and check the address that they had for Steve Salaya.

[Alaina]

I love when it's like good investigative work. Yeah, love that.

[Ash]

So later that afternoon, San Francisco Police Inspector Tim Casey and FBI Special Agent Tom Patton, along with two additional SFPD officers, drove over to the apartment of 625 Morse street to take one last look before they headed into that press conference that very afternoon.

[Alaina]

I love that.

[Ash]

There was two officers watching the front door. And Casey and Patton crept her on the back porch, where through a dirty window, they could see Wendy just showing some letters to Patty at The kitchen table.

[Alaina]

I love it. Just so. I had no idea.

[Ash]

Mundane as.

[Alaina]

No idea.

[Ash]

Wendy had just got up from the table to go get a glass of water, and the two women heard the sound of breaking glass as Patton broke down the door, burst into the kitchen, pointed his gun at Wendy, and shouted to Patty, freeze or I'll blow her head off.

[Alaina]

Wow. Taste of your own medicine.

[Ash]

Yeah. Not so fun being on the other side of that, huh? And, of course, in the year before, they had all gone over all these scenarios about how this could end and how they would, you know, they would run away or they would attack the police or.

[Alaina]

Oh, yeah, yeah, it was gonna be so cool, man.

[Ash]

They'd be badass. But now that they were standing in that very moment, neither of them knew what to do.

[Alaina]

Yeah, obviously standing in the position that they have put other people in several.

[Ash]

Times, standing in the position that Myrna was put in, and she didn't know what to do.

[Alaina]

Did you freeze?

[Ash]

Yep.

[Alaina]

Maybe. Yep.

[Ash]

So they didn't do anything. No shootouts, no running. They just put their hands up and surrendered. It was all finally over.

[Alaina]

Wow.

[Ash]

Kind of. So after more than a year on the run with bombings, robberies, and now a murder behind them, five members of the sla, including the last of the original members, were all taken into custody with no incident. When asked for a statement, Catherine Hurst, Patty's mom, told a reporter they found Patty. Thank God she's all right. But neither she or Randolph cared to really give any additional comment, probably understanding that their daughter was safe. But this was only the beginning of a very long process of trying to figure out what the fuck had happened here.

[Alaina]

Yeah. Because, I mean, this is a. This is a complex case. Yeah.

[Ash]

And Patty had been gone for almost a year, and they're still wondering, did she want to do all this? Was she forced into doing all of this? That's the thing we don't know.

[Alaina]

Can two things, and two things can be true at once.

[Ash]

So, yeah, you know, and we'll definitely get into that now. Even though everybody surrendered without a fight, once the cameras were rolling and the recordings were running, Patty and the other members fell right back into their radical activist routine, being very performative, of course. Everybody from local journalists and cops and, you know, even the head of the FBI wanted to know the same thing. Who was Patty Hearst now? Was she the same girl who got kidnapped over a year ago and was just, like, carried away in the middle of the night? Or had she really turned her back on where she had come from and joined the sla? And as she stepped out of the car at the LA FBI building, she stood there and held up a raised fist in the air, which indicated that the latter was the truth. Yep, I think there's a picture of that, too. Like.

[Alaina]

Yeah, I think so.

[Ash]

During their booking, and this is just the most obnoxious. All five members of the SLA were characteristically defiant. Patty gave her name as Tanya, and when they asked her what her occupation was, she told them. Urban gorilla.

[Alaina]

I would have laughed really hard. I, like. I'm sorry.

[Ash]

Would have probably been really annoyed by that. Urban gorilla.

[Alaina]

Yeah. You're like, I don't. I don't have that.

[Ash]

Why don't you tell me? You're an unemployed who runs amok and kills people. Now, unlike the others, who had absolutely no money for a lawyer, Randolph Hearst, Patty's father hired a pack of the nation's best defense attorneys, and he comp a team that would eventually be led by F. Lee Bailey, who is the.

[Alaina]

Heard that name.

[Ash]

Yeah, I was going to say a notorious defense attorney. He represented Albert DeSalvo, who confessed to being the Boston Strangler.

[Alaina]

Damn.

[Ash]

Sam Shepard, who we've covered before, too. He was accused of murdering his wife in the middle of the night. And obviously F. Bailey would go on to represent O.J. o.J. Simpson in the 90s.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So that was a big deal.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And in the days that followed, the investigation mostly focused on Patty. Everybody wanted to know, had she been brainwashed, what had happened here? It was obviously just a matter of curiosity for the public, and, you know, like, we're all just nosy, of course. But it was also pretty relevant when it came to the question of if she could be held responsible for the crimes that she had participated in while she was part of them, or at least living with them. According to sports activist Jack Scott, who had actually spent a lot of time with the group just before the Crocker robbery. He said Patty joined the Symbionese Liberation army of her own accord and proved herself in the Hibernia robbery the previous year.

[Alaina]

Yeah, I mean, that's true, but on.

[Ash]

The other side of the argument was Patty's family and obviously her defense team, who said she was in an incredibly fragile state when she was arrested, and it was clear that she was not acting of her own accord.

[Alaina]

And that can also kind of be true. Yeah, like, I can see both sides of this completely.

[Ash]

Like we were saying earlier, I think two things can be true at once. But F. Lee Bailey told reporters her situation is deteriorating swiftly in the San Mateo Jail. It will serve no purpose to have her mental condition deteriorate to the point where she cannot stand trial for the foreseeable future. Ultimately, she was deemed fit to stand trial, so her, you know, mental state obviously wasn't deteriorating that badly.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And a judge deemed that her recorded confessions that she had sent to her parents and the press, like all those recordings that had been sent throughout this, were admissible now in this trial.

[Alaina]

Oh, Damn. Yeah.

[Ash]

In January 1976, she went on trial for the robbery of the Hibernia bank robbery the previous year, which wasn't so crazy. It was, you know, a standard bank robbery. No one was hurt, but nobody was killed. I should say. People were hurt, but she was the only member who could be identified, and she was the only person to be tried for that robbery.

[Alaina]

Wow.

[Ash]

Which, when you think about it, is crazy.

[Alaina]

That is crazy.

[Ash]

Arguing in her defense, F. Lee Bailey said that, yes, it was true she had participated, but she had only done so under extreme duress. He said all of the activities Patty had participated in during her time with the SLA were done out of fear for her life. And he said most any other victim would comply with their kidnapper to make sure that they were safe.

[Alaina]

Which is true.

[Ash]

Which is true.

[Alaina]

It's a true statement.

[Ash]

Then the prosecution hired Dr. Harry Kozal to evaluate Patty and determine if she had acted of her own volition or not. Or not. Not. But within a few days, Patty and F. Lee Bailey complained to the court that Dr. Kozal had been aggressive, abusive, and had driven Patty to tears.

[Alaina]

Damn.

[Ash]

In a 45 minute interview that halted the trial entirely, Patty told the judge that he, quote, implied she had arranged her own kidnapping. Asked if she was proud of having robbed a bank, which I think is a valid question. Dwelt upon the skin pigmentation of Donald DeFreeze, which I think is not ridiculous. And then he called her a little girl, which would piss me off.

[Alaina]

That would have pissed me off to the. To the end of the earth.

[Ash]

Same. So he flatly rejected the claims. And in the end, it really didn't matter because on March 11, 1976, a jury found her guilty of armed robbery. And Patty Hearst was sentenced to seven years in prison for the crime.

[Alaina]

Which that's. That is. I mean, she committed armed robbery.

[Ash]

She did.

[Alaina]

That's just, you know, think of how.

[Ash]

Crazy that is, though. She is the heiress to one of the richest families in the entire world, and she's serving seven years. For armed robbery.

[Alaina]

For armed robbery.

[Ash]

And actually, it's funny, I was talking to Ma about this because Ma was like 20, in her, like, early 20s when this all happened. And I said, I was like, do you remember, like when this was happening? And she did. She was like, oh, we were all very invested in this.

[Alaina]

Oh, that's so crazy.

[Ash]

Isn't that funny?

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

She. Ima said she had just had kids, but like her and Papa would watch it on the news. And I was like, what did you think? And she said she was like, we didn't know what to think if she.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

If she had been brainwashed or not.

[Alaina]

Which I think is the right answer, to be honest. I wasn't there.

[Ash]

I think I'm not there and I'm not her.

[Alaina]

She did go through a ton of shit in the beginning. And it's like there was brainwashing no matter what.

[Ash]

I think so too.

[Alaina]

Whether she eventually felt like she was doing the right thing or not and was actively involved. There was a level of brainwashing regardless. So again, two things can be true. She could have been completely traumatized, which she was. Yeah. I mean, she was sexually assaulted in the beginning there too. Held in the dark, blindfolded, treated like a prisoner.

[Ash]

Yup.

[Alaina]

And then it's like, so that can be true. That's traumatizing. That's brainwashing. That's fucked up.

[Ash]

All of the above.

[Alaina]

All of the above. Can't even imagine it. And then she could have also realized, I'm into this and decided to actively participate. So they both could have been true.

[Ash]

Agreed.

[Alaina]

But again, I think my opinion of it is. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.

[Ash]

I think a lot of people share that opinion and I think it's actually a pretty valid opinion.

[Alaina]

Yeah, like a wise opinion.

[Ash]

That's the thing I wanted to say, an intelligent opinion, but that didn't sound right. A wise opinion because we weren't there. I don't have any similar experience.

[Alaina]

No. Luckily I can't draw on my experience, so.

[Ash]

So I don't know. But it was just interesting to talk to Ma about because I was like, oh, that's weird that, like you tuned into the news when this was massive news.

[Alaina]

I know. That is crazy.

[Ash]

Yeah. But anyway, if Patty seemed overwhelmed and run down in the lead up to and during this first trial, it was probably because in addition to preparing for that trial, she was also involved in ongoing interrogations by the FBI about the Crocker bank robbery and now the murder of Myrna Apsal. Oops. They knew that the SLA was responsible for both of these things, but they hadn't been able to locate specific individuals, so. And actually, they couldn't even connect Bill and Emily Harris at all to the crimes.

[Alaina]

Damn.

[Ash]

So instead, they focused their attention on Steve Salaya, who they incorrectly believed was the man guarding the door during the robbery. Oh, but if you remember, Steve wasn't even part of that robbery. He was part of the sla, but he hadn't been there at Crocker bank that day.

[Alaina]

Possibility means you have a chance. Passion opens the door to all possibilities.

[Ash]

When I feel like anything's possible, I feel kind of giddy. I want to be an astronaut, an.

[Alaina]

Artist, an actress, to visit another country. All I need is a backpack and.

[Ash]

A pair of shoes, and I'll find a way I'm able to do anything I set my mind to. I've never felt like more things are possible than right now. In the right shoes, anything is possible. Dsw countless shoes at bragworthy prices. Imagine the possibilities. So during the interrogations, Patty was entirely compliant at this point. And she was very honest. She insisted and was truthful, saying Steve hadn't been at Crocker bank that day, and he actually hadn't been involved in any of the other crimes either.

[Alaina]

Damn.

[Ash]

But unfortunately, also at that time, she had lost all credibility.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And they didn't really believe anything she was telling them. So instead, the prosecutor forged ahead with their case against Steve Salaya. And based on a witness identification, of all things. Oh, no. Kathleen James, who was a bookkeeper for Crocker bank and was there that day, said, when you go through a robbery like that and look a man in the face, you don't forget. I mean, which I understand you probably feel that way for sure, but obviously it's possible because Steve wasn't there that day.

[Alaina]

Witness identifications are notoriously shaky. Yeah, because we're just human. Yeah. So it's like it's nobody's fault. It's just.

[Ash]

Well, and also, remember, they were all wearing ski masks. Well, in a lot of.

[Alaina]

A lot of people, especially at that time, with, like, the style and everything.

[Ash]

A lot of them probably looked alike. Yeah, they look similar.

[Alaina]

You know, they have similar hairstyles. They have similar facial.

[Ash]

Their hair or anything like that.

[Alaina]

They're dressed the same. Same kind of features. It's like, it's easy to do. That's why you got to take it with a grain of salt, though.

[Ash]

And even in a case like that, you're also seeing minimal features at that point. Because somebody's wearing a fucking ski mask.

[Alaina]

Exactly.

[Ash]

So.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

But in April of 1970, 6. Steve Celia ended up going on trial for not only the robbery, but that's where the murder took place. So he was facing murder charges too.

[Alaina]

Wow. And he wasn't even there.

[Ash]

He wasn't even there.

[Alaina]

Holy shit.

[Ash]

And the crazy thing is that this went. Went forward to trial with the prosecutor's best evidence being a grainy photograph and one eyewitness identification, which is nuts.

[Alaina]

Damn.

[Ash]

And also, you can. You're probably not going to be shocked to hear one because you heard this, but if you haven't before, the entire case pretty much fell apart within a week or so because the man in the photograph believed to be Steve, turned out to be another person entirely. Who just looked like him.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Which like you said, people looked very similar back.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Styles and everything.

[Alaina]

Yeah. Like the hairstyle was like very. Especially with men, it's like they all had that same, like, bushy hair, 70s, you know, the facial hair. Yeah.

[Ash]

So on April 28th, the jury voted unanimously to acquit Steve Salaya, thankfully, of all charges. And the jury's foreman, Joanne Parker, said.

[Alaina]

It was a weak case.

[Ash]

The evidence just wasn't there.

[Alaina]

Wow.

[Ash]

So embarrassed by how badly they had botched the Salaya case, and now lacking and any and all evidence to connect the other members to the Crocker bank robbery, the Sacramento District Attorney just chose not to pursue any more charges against anyone else. And so they all went free and clear for robbing the Crocker bank and also murdering Myrna Opsol. Holy. Which is. Yeah, that's wild. A few months later, though, on September 29, Bill and Emily, being the only original members of the sla, pleaded guilty to kidnapping Patty Hearst and they were sentenced to eight years in prison.

[Alaina]

Oh, wow. So everybody's going downtown's going down.

[Ash]

Going downtown, Charlie Brown. So In January of 1979, after two years of lobbying from the extremely powerful and well connected Hearst family, President Jimmy Carter, ended up commuting Patty's sentence after she had served a little over two years.

[Alaina]

Here's the thing.

[Ash]

I think that's.

[Alaina]

I think wealth and privilege might have gone into that. Might have decision.

[Ash]

Wealth and privilege is all you can credit that to. At least can you imagine being the other members and being like you? You joined us. Kidding. Like, come on, what the hell? But on February 1, 1979, Patty Hearst walked out of federal prison, a complete, completely free woman.

[Alaina]

Wow.

[Ash]

And she made a really, in my opinion, ignorant statement to the press. She said, for a young person not quite 25, I've done an awful lot of things. Some of Them unusual. I've learned an awful lot about people. Let's unpack that.

[Alaina]

You just got such a gift. You were given such a gift here.

[Ash]

And then it's like in Born On. You've been touched by an angel. You've been touched by an angel, girl.

[Alaina]

Like, that's what you choose to say.

[Ash]

I've done an awful lot of things.

[Alaina]

Some of them unusual.

[Ash]

Unusual? Did you not spend any time in prison looking up fucking synonyms for the word unusual?

[Alaina]

You shot an automatic weapon into a sporting goods store without a second thought of who could have been in there.

[Ash]

That's beyond unusual.

[Alaina]

Like, that's not unusual. That's fucking reckless and dangerous and violent. Regardless of whether you're brainwashed or not, you are alone in a car with a set of keys, and you chose to shoot into a boarding goods store and possibly kill children in there.

[Ash]

Yep.

[Alaina]

Not that anybody's life is worth more than the other, but it's like, you don't know who's in there. No.

[Ash]

And then to say, I've learned an awful lot about people.

[Alaina]

Like, that's not.

[Ash]

I want to hear that you've learned about yourself that is not good. And that you've learned about wrong and right.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

And morals.

[Alaina]

That sick to hear.

[Ash]

Like, honestly, at that point, just don't even say anything.

[Alaina]

That's the thing. I'd be like, you know what?

[Ash]

Say something better or shut the up.

[Alaina]

If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. And that was not nice. No, that was just not nice, my friend. Well.

[Ash]

And here's the thing. Obviously, the Hearst family was happy, and Patty's supporters were overjoyed, but to the family and friends of Myrna Apsol, who had gotten absolutely no justice at all.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

That's a slap in the face. Exactly. It was a slap in the fucking face. So in the years after she was released from prison, Patty ended up marrying her former bodyguard, Bernard Shaw.

[Alaina]

That does not sound real.

[Ash]

Ma. I said to Ma, I was like, yeah. And, like, she ended up marrying her bodyguard. And Ma said, I remember that it was very weird.

[Alaina]

It was very weird.

[Ash]

She was like. It was very strange, like, weird. She was like. It was just, like, crazy news. Yeah.

[Alaina]

Like. Just like what? It doesn't sound real. Yeah.

[Ash]

And they went on to have two kids together.

[Alaina]

Wow. Okay.

[Ash]

She. Patty, eventually did confirm the widely held belief that she had only participated in the SLA activity activities out of fear for her own safety. And that was a claim she repeated in her memoir, which was called Every Secret Thing and published in 1981. And it was in that same book that Patty revealed for the very first time who it was that had shot Myrna Apsol.

[Alaina]

Oh.

[Ash]

She revealed that it was Emily Harris.

[Alaina]

Damn.

[Ash]

Since then she. It seems like she used her. Her inheritance in her time.

[Alaina]

Well, yeah, it does seem like it.

[Ash]

She turns things around. So I will say, as annoyed as I was at that statement, at least she did some good.

[Alaina]

Oh, hey. That's all you can ask.

[Ash]

Yeah. She supported a lot of causes, including the AIDS crisis. She donated to a lot of children's charities. She also has done acting. She's. I didn't even realize this. She's been in John Waters movies.

[Alaina]

That's wild.

[Ash]

Yeah. And also just like random TV shows.

[Alaina]

That's real wild.

[Ash]

Yeah. I shouldn't even say random TV shows, just like TV shows in general. I don't want to sound like an. I'm sure she's been on good ones. But here's the thing. Back to Myrna Opsal, because the injustice that her family experienced is wild.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

But they were undeterred to get justice for their mother, so good for them.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

John Oppsal and his siblings were not content to let their mom just be like a footnote in the Patty Hearst story and like another wealthy American. So instead they kept pushing law enforcement to keep the case active and continue to pursue whoever was responsible here. But the problem was that those who were actually responsible for the murder and the robbery had kind of disappeared entirely without a trace. Because nobody was ever.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Ever brought in. And like, you know, like, they never pinpointed exact people in this. But that was until the story aired on a 1999 episode of America's Most Wanted. They ended up showing mug shots on that program and they aged them and showed them. Which I think is so cool when they do that.

[Alaina]

Yeah, that's interesting.

[Ash]

And it works a lot of the times, or at least some of the time. After the show aired, somebody from St. Paul, Minnesota called the hotline from America's Most Wanted and told the operator they were not totally positive, but they did think that the image of Kathy Salaya looked a lot like their neighbor, Sarah Jane Olson.

[Alaina]

Sarah Jane.

[Ash]

So local police paid a visit to one Sarah Jane Olson.

[Alaina]

Oh, Sarah Jane.

[Ash]

Who was living with her husband, a well respected doctor in the area.

[Alaina]

This fucking. When you. When we recorded this for the first time, I wish we had my reaction.

[Ash]

I know.

[Alaina]

But my mic was fucking unfucked.

[Ash]

But I lost it at this because.

[Alaina]

I was like, oh, you mean a bourgeois Pig.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

Who deserves to die. And it sounds like you would think that you do because you married one. Wasn't that the logic that we're all working with?

[Ash]

Isn't that the pot calling the kettle block, like, holy glass house.

[Alaina]

How are you doing?

[Ash]

Sarah J. Sarah J.

[Alaina]

That pissed me off in a way I could not describe. No, it's hypocrisy is rancid over there.

[Ash]

You just after, like, terrorizing the state of California and being present for the murder of a woman.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

You just after talking shit about said woman who you killed. You married a doctor and just settled in St. Paul, Minnesota, and went on to have children and live a regular life. Like a nice life.

[Alaina]

Exactly what you were raging against. Isn't that. Isn't that it?

[Ash]

Yeah. Interesting.

[Alaina]

Wow. Shocking.

[Ash]

And we're so mad because it was confirmed that Sarah Jane Olsen, she confessed she was, in fact, Kathy Salaya, a former member of the sla, which also. She had three daughters at that point. Teenage daughters. I can't imagine being them.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

I can't imagine finding out you did what? Excuse me, Your name is like. You just lied to me my whole life.

[Alaina]

That would. Yeah. I feel for them like you don't.

[Ash]

Even know your mom's real name.

[Alaina]

That's a whole mess of stuff you're going to have to work through. Yeah.

[Ash]

And that's shitty and awful to do with somebody. So in the summer of 1999 now, Kathy Sl. Sarah was charged with conspiracy to commit murder for placing those bombs underneath police cars in San Francisco.

[Alaina]

Yikes.

[Ash]

And she was also charged with attempting to ignite an explosive with intent to murder. She was literally gonna murder a bunch of police officers. Now, given how much time had passed, the prosecutor was kind of skeptical that they were going to get any kind of conviction. So Kathy Sarah was offered in. That's all I can think to call her to make it less confusing. She was offered and she accepted a plea deal where she pleaded guilty to two counts of possessing explosives with intent to murder. And they dropped the other charges. That plea carried a sentence of around three years in prison. Let me just quickly remind you what she accepted the plea deal to. Two counts of possessing explosives with intent to murder. Holy. Three years.

[Alaina]

That's shocking.

[Ash]

Hello?

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Is this thing on? However, almost immediately after accepting her deal, Kathy Sarah started claiming publicly that she was innocent. And she only accepted the deal to protect. Protect everybody else from back then. So a few months later, she petitioned the court to allow her to withdraw her plea. And in the fall of 2001, she went on trial now. So she completely removed her plea.

[Alaina]

What a shitty dice to roll. Yeah, it was like I even again, I wish we had our first recording because even not knowing how it turned out, I was like, oh, that's not gonna go well.

[Ash]

It sure did.

[Alaina]

I just don't bad dice roll.

[Ash]

It went the worst that it possibly could have too because her trial judge was the same judge who off on her plea deal.

[Alaina]

That's pretty poetic.

[Ash]

Pretty poetic. And he was pretty frustrated and disappointed that she'd been lying to his face on several occasions.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

So yeah, the gamble on a trial.

[Alaina]

Did not pay off.

[Ash]

In January of 2002, Kathy Sarah was sentenced to 10 years to life.

[Alaina]

That's different. She could have just served different three.

[Ash]

Years in prison for something she had done like many, many years ago.

[Alaina]

Ten years to life.

[Ash]

Instead she decided to be a like holy. And so she got what she deserved in my opinion.

[Alaina]

Damn.

[Ash]

Now it's safe to assume that Kathy Sarah was pretty disappointed with the outcome of all that. But it turned out that that was just the beginning of her problems. The arrest of a one time SLA member Kathy Sarah was exactly what investigators needed to take another look at Myrna Opsol's murder case. Fortunately and somewhat surprisingly, the FBI located a trove of evidence that the Sacramento District Attorney's office had previously claimed they didn't have.

[Alaina]

Interesting.

[Ash]

Back when they were trying Steve for.

[Alaina]

All of this, huh?

[Ash]

Among that evidence was money taken from the Crocker bank robbery, a large number of guns, including the shotgun and the pellets that were used to kill Myrna, and a significant amount of fingerprint evidence that linked Kathy Sarah, Mike Borton, James Kilgore, Bill Harris and Emily Harris to the robbery and the murder.

[Alaina]

Huh. Like, interesting that. That was just like, oh, we just found this.

[Ash]

Hello. Yeah, like where was that all?

[Alaina]

What was going on there?

[Ash]

It was like you guys really wanted to pin that on Steve, huh? Allegedly. Allegedly. So In February of 2003, Bill Harris, Emily Harris, Mike Borton and Kathy Slash Sarah pleaded guilty to the robbery of Crocker bank and for the murder of Myrna Opsal. And they each received between six and eight years in prison. And they finally in accepted responsibility for their actions. And they did apologize to the Apsol family, but obviously that didn't bring their mother or their wife or their sister or their friend back.

[Alaina]

No.

[Ash]

And James Kilgore was eventually found in Cape Town, South Africa later that year he was extradited to the US and he also pleaded guilty to the charges. But he Served his time. He served six years and was released on parole.

[Alaina]

Damn.

[Ash]

But every single person ended up facing actual consequences.

[Alaina]

Never saw that coming.

[Ash]

Whether it took years or not, they all ended up serving prison time.

[Alaina]

Yeah. That's.

[Ash]

Which is poetic justice.

[Alaina]

That really is. Cuz any.

[Ash]

Any kind.

[Alaina]

Like you just wanted some kind of consequences.

[Ash]

Yeah. I mean, like, even Patty serving two years. I don't think it's necessarily fair.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

That she got her sentence commuted. But I think that's also really complicated when you get into the brainwashing of it all. So I'll leave that where it is. But just the fact that everybody else did end up at least had to.

[Alaina]

Serve some time for it. It's like you did commit crimes. You.

[Ash]

Yeah.

[Alaina]

You know what I mean?

[Ash]

You do the crime, you do the time.

[Alaina]

Yeah. And people died as a result. It's not like these were petty crimes that didn't end up with people being hurt.

[Ash]

No. People got hurt and a woman ended up killed.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

You know, and I'm glad that her family got the justice they deserved. And good for them for never giving up.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

Because like we say, a cold case is never cold. It's true.

[Alaina]

It's never cold. You can always warm it up in the microwave. Life.

[Ash]

True. They did that. They did. You just, you. You just keep going.

[Alaina]

You just keep going. Just don't leave it in the microwave, you know, Take it out.

[Ash]

Yeah. So.

[Alaina]

So that's it. That's. That's what an interesting. Interesting story.

[Ash]

It really is. Because I never knew, like, obviously I knew who Patty Hearst was and everything, but I did not know all the nitty gritty same. And I didn't know, like, even just like the weird things. Like, like not weird, but just like random things that she, like, married her bodyguard.

[Alaina]

Yeah. I didn't know any of that.

[Ash]

She. I thought it was kind of. Kind of iconic that she outed Emily in the book.

[Alaina]

Yeah.

[Ash]

That was wild. I was. She's like, she's already in prison, so.

[Alaina]

Well, and the truth is the truth.

[Ash]

The truth is the truth.

[Alaina]

It just is what it is. Yeah.

[Ash]

Fascinating case, for sure.

[Alaina]

And Myrna Opso's family deserve to know who pulled the trigger.

[Ash]

Absolutely.

[Alaina]

They did know.

[Ash]

And America's Most Wanted forever.

[Alaina]

Yeah. Truly.

[Ash]

Come on.

[Alaina]

Damn.

[Ash]

And it was also just really cool to talk to Ma, like, about being like, hey, do you remember this? And she was like, hell, yeah, I do. Oh, yeah, I remember Patty.

[Alaina]

Yeah. Yeah. And at least she, you know, at least she's, you know, seems to be trying to repent.

[Ash]

Yeah. She definitely did like helping her life crisis and children's charities and everything, really.

[Alaina]

All you can ask is growth.

[Ash]

Well, that's all you can do, you know?

[Alaina]

That's literally all you can do.

[Ash]

All you can do is grow.

[Alaina]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ash]

And we'll, we'll keep growing cuz that's.

[Alaina]

All we can do. And you guys too.

[Ash]

Yeah, keep growing as an audience. And we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird, but not so weird that you record a podcast for eight years and you forget to plug your microphone in.