Tillie Klimek: Mrs. Bluebeard of Chicago

Summary

Morbid Podcast Episode Summary

Episode Overview

Title: Tillie Klimek: Mrs. Bluebeard of Chicago
Date: April 9, 2026
Hosts: Ash Kelley & Alaina Urquhart
Theme: A darkly comedic deep dive into the life, crimes, and trial of Tillie Klimek, a notorious Chicago serial killer in the early 1900s nicknamed “Mrs. Bluebeard.” The episode blends research-heavy true crime storytelling with the hosts’ signature banter and sardonic humor.

---

Main Topics & Key Discussion Points

1. Introducing Tillie Klimek – The “Mrs. Bluebeard” of Chicago (03:47)

• Ash: “We’re talking about Tilly Klimek today. She is referred to as Mrs. Bluebeard of Chicago.” (03:47)
• Quick reference to the original “Bluebeard” (a man who killed his wives) and establishing that Tilly was famous for killing her husbands.

---

2. Early Life and Background (04:44)

• Born Otelia Gburek in Poland, 1876, immigrated to US as a child, settled in Chicago’s “Little Poland.”
• Language barrier noted; didn’t learn much English early on, which played into her later interactions.
• Notable Quote:
  • Ash: “By the way, there’s a lot of Polish pronunciations in this. I’m literally married to a Polish man… I’m gonna do my best.” (04:14)

---

3. Tilly’s Marriages and Mysterious Deaths (05:59–08:06)

First Husband: Joseph Mickiewicz

• Married at 14, had a son. Marriage lasted longer than her others.
• Joseph died unexpectedly (1914) of “heart trouble”; Tilly collected $1,000 in life insurance.
• Alaina: “Grief was a luxury that she could not afford for very long.” (07:16)

Second Husband: Joseph Ruskowski

• Married one month after first husband’s death, he died within three months (May 1914).
• Tilly quickly inherited money.

Suspicious Confession

• During a short relationship after husband #2, Tilly admitted to a boyfriend she’d poisoned her previous husbands after he laughed at her marriage proposal. (09:02–09:13)
• Ash: “Contrary to popular belief, my previous two husbands didn’t die of natural causes. I poisoned them. So don’t mess with me.” (08:57)

Other Relationships & Husbands

• Several relationships, suspicious deaths, and rumors, including living with a man called “Myers,” who disappeared (10:12).
• Married Frank Kupchik in 1919; neighbors noticed her brazen attitude about his pending death and another man routinely visiting for porch “smooches.” (11:28–12:26)
• Notable Moment: Tilly picking out a coffin before Frank died, knitting a funeral hat, and telling neighbors he had “2 inches to live.” (12:04–13:01)

---

4. Outlandish Behavior & Neighbors’ Suspicions (12:40–14:05)

• Tilly played upbeat dance music at Frank’s funeral, yelled at his corpse:
  • Alaina: "She reached into the coffin and grabbed Frank's ear, shouting, 'You devil. You won't get up anymore.'" (14:09)
• Cashed in insurance and moved on to next marriage with shocking speed, further intensifying neighborhood gossip.

---

5. Final Marriage: Joseph Klimek & Mounting Red Flags (22:11–24:38)

• Despite hearing rumors, Joseph married Tilly. He believed her initial devotion; Tilly soon grew discontent.
• Cousin Nellie recalled Tilly saying, "No, I'll get rid of him some other way" when advised to divorce Joseph. (23:08)
• Tilly pressured Joseph for more insurance, citing psychic visions of his impending death.
• Began openly telling Joseph, “You’re pretty near dead now” and “Didn’t I tell you? You’re not gonna live long?” (24:15)

---

6. Insurance, Symptoms, and Arsenic Poisoning (24:53–27:01)

• After increasing insurance, Joseph developed “shooting pains,” paralysis, and garlic breath. Dogs died after eating his scraps (25:08–25:39).
• Joseph’s brother insisted on another doctor, Dr. Burns, who quickly suspected arsenic poisoning, confirming traces in Joseph’s medications not supposed to have arsenic (26:26–28:11).
• Police arrested Tilly and her son; local gossip exploded.

---

7. The Police Investigation & Public Frenzy (28:58–35:54)

• Discovery of “Rough on Rats” arsenic at home; Tilly and her son deflected blame.
• Tilly’s confession: tried to poison Joseph for “fooling around with other women,” claiming the poison came from cousin Nellie. (31:58–32:11)
• Exhumations found massive levels of arsenic in Frank’s remains (“enough to kill four men”). (32:28)
• Investigation broadened as they realized suspicion reached Nellie and potentially as many as twenty victims.

---

8. The Women’s Network & “Poison Parties” (42:19–45:47)

• More women arrested; headlines called them “The Bluebeard Clique,” Tilly as “high priestess.” (45:21)
• Prosecutors alleged a “wholesale poison plot… through a series of poison parties,” tying financial motives in. (45:59–46:11)

---

9. Trial and Aftermath (45:47–54:44)

• Sensational trial included testimony from doctors, nurses, insurance agents, gravediggers, and undertakers.
• Nurses recalled Tilly joking, “If he makes any trouble for you, take a 2x4 and hit him over the head.” (47:36)
• Tilly unemotional except when chemist proved all three husbands were poisoned.
• On the stand, denied guilt:
  • Tilly's testimony: “I loved them. They loved me. They just died, same as other people. I'm not responsible for that. I could not help. If they wanted to die…” (51:00)
• Jury found her guilty of Frank’s murder; sentenced to life (jury refused to sentence a woman to death). (51:32–52:14)
• Nelly was acquitted, despite evidence, drawing attention to possible gender, appearance, and media bias. (53:07)

---

10. Fate and Legacy (54:12–55:02)

• Tilly thrived in prison, became a model inmate, died of heart disease at Dwight Prison in 1936 at age 64. (54:29–54:43)
• Hosts reflect on her as “the high priestess of arsenic poisoning… she raged through life.” (54:47–54:57)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ash (re: Tilly attending funerals): “She’s planning this like Coachella… got the whole fit ready.” (12:47)
• Alaina: “She just doesn’t give a…” (13:00)
• On trial strategy:
  • “Taking the stand in your own defense… you could live or you could die.” (50:16)
• About insurance: “She insisted [Joseph’s policy] was not enough and also make me the beneficiary… because she was psychic and had a premonition he was going to die soon.” (23:39)
• On media bias: “Some members of the press and public speculated that her conviction was due to her lacking physical attraction.” (53:25)

---

Important Timestamps

• 03:47 – Start of Tilly Klimek’s story
• 04:44 – Early life, origins in Poland/Chicago
• 06:37 – First suspicious husband death
• 07:21–08:47 – Rapid remarriage and inheritances
• 08:57 – Tilly’s confession to murder to her boyfriend
• 12:04 – Neighbors recall Tilly’s morbid preparations and jokes
• 14:09 – Funeral scene, Tilly taunting her husband's corpse
• 22:11 – Introduction of Joseph Klimek marriage; gossip grows
• 23:08 – “No, I’ll get rid of him some other way.”
• 25:08–25:39 – Onset of poisoning symptoms and pet deaths
• 26:26 – Dr. Burns recognizes arsenic poisoning
• 28:58 – Police arrest Tilly and her son, gossip spills over
• 31:58 – Tilly’s confession, blaming cousin Nellie
• 32:28 – Arsenic confirmed in exhumed husband’s body
• 42:19 – Body count rises; at least 20 suspected
• 45:59 – Prosecutor’s opening: “poison parties”
• 47:36 – Nurse’s testimony about Tilly’s “jokes” on killing
• 51:00 – Tilly’s defense: “I'm not responsible… they just died.”
• 51:32–52:14 – Verdict, sentence, Tilly’s reaction
• 54:29–54:43 – Tilly’s fate in prison and death

---

Hosts’ Tone and Language

• Banter-heavy: The hosts riff on old commercials and insert running jokes (“One night only!” “Smooch on the porch!”)
• Dark Humor: Never at the expense of the victims, but highlighting the wildness of Tilly’s behavior and the public’s reaction.
• Empathetic: Expressions of horror at the body count and sympathy for victims (especially by drawing contrasts with their own “chicken safety” anxieties).

---

Memorable Quotes Attributed with Timestamps

• Alaina (on Tilly’s funeral antics): “She is planning for this like you plan for Coachella. Like she’s gonna have the whole fit ready.” (12:47)
• Ash (on court testimony): “Taking the stand in your own defense… you could live or you could die.” (50:16)
• Tilly (via Ash, on the stand): “I loved them. They loved me. They just died, same as other people. I’m not responsible for that. I could not help. If they wanted to die…” (51:00)
• Prosecutor McLaughlin: “The two women had planned and carried out a wholesale poison plot which claimed at least six lives and caused serious illness to nearly a score more.” (45:47)

---

Fun Facts & Closing Banter

• Fun Fact: “Orcas are a natural predator of moose – attacking them when they swim between islands in coastal Alaska and Canada.” (55:27)
• Banter on the plural of “moose” — “mises” vs. “moose.” (56:32–57:19)

---

Conclusion

This episode presents a meticulously researched account of Tillie Klimek’s string of suspicious marriages and murders, blending serious historical detail with the hosts’ signature irreverence and wit. Through sociological context, trial coverage, and vivid anecdotes, Morbid explores not just Tilly’s crimes but the era’s attitudes towards women, media sensationalism, and the strange ways true crime stories become urban legend. The episode is rich in details, making it accessible, memorable, and engaging—perfect for both seasoned true crime listeners and newcomers alike.

Transcript

[A]

Some stories hinge on a single decision. One choice that changes everything. What if earning a degree was yours? Southern New Hampshire University offers online degrees

[B]

built for your life.

[A]

No matter your program, you'll gain practical experience through hands on projects. And with no set class times, you'll do it all on your own schedule. Sometimes the right decision is right in front of you. All you have to do is trust your gut. Start your degree at snhu. Edu Morbid.

[B]

Every good detective needs a partner to

[A]

support them on important cases. Think of a State Farm agent like your sidekick. There to help you along the way in your search for coverage. State Farm can help you choose the coverage you need. Whether it's for your home, car, boat, or even rv. With so many options, it's nice knowing you have help finding what fits for you so you can get back to solving all of life's bigger cases. Go [e-mail] or use the award winning app to get help from one of their local agents. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is

[B]

there

[A]

this Mother's Day. Celebrate the woman behind it all with Pandora Jewelry. Choose jewelry that reflects the love you share and the moments that matter most. Make it even more meaningful by personalizing your piece with an engraving in your own handwriting. Either a date, a name, or something unique to you. Because the best Mother's Day gift says more than I love you. It says, I see you. Find the perfect Mother's Day gift at your local Pandora store or [e-mail] hey weirdos.

[B]

I'm Ash.

[C]

And I'm Elena.

[B]

And this is Mobbit.

[C]

This is Mobbage.

[B]

Hi everybody.

[C]

Here we are. How's it hanging? It's hump day, everybody. Hump day.

[B]

Remember when that was like an office culture thing?

[C]

That there was like a commercial? Yeah. That had a camel.

[B]

I think it was a man who turned into a camel, I believe. Oh, it was maybe my.

[C]

I didn't know the dark history of that. I thought it was just a camel.

[B]

I think the man became a camel cuz he kept saying no.

[C]

I, I. Deb. Dev is shaking her head too. I don't know. I don't know about that.

[B]

I'm.

[C]

I'm going to look it up. I think it was just him being like, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike. Wow. Yeah, I think he just.

[B]

I thought both were like, what?

[C]

There's dark history behind this commercial.

[B]

I, I didn't think it was dark history.

[C]

I just thought in a man becoming a camel, that's a bit, that's, that's dark.

[B]

It's a bit.

[C]

It's dark, man. I don't want to be a camel. Dark bit, you know? Exactly.

[B]

I thought I shouldn't know. You thought?

[C]

I guess.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

There's a lot that I thought.

[C]

That's not real.

[B]

There's a lot that I thought I thunk the thought that I thunk. That I thunk and I thunk.

[C]

All right, so now that we figured that out, everybody.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I guess he began the commercial as a candle.

[B]

He began and ended as a camel.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

We can get into what I do know.

[C]

Oh, man.

[B]

Which is this case.

[C]

Which is this case.

[B]

I do know about this case.

[C]

Also, buy tickets to the Radio City Music hall show.

[B]

Oh, honey, do that.

[C]

Honey, just gotta remind you, you know,

[B]

Debbie's teaching us a tap.

[C]

It's one night only.

[B]

You're not gonna want to miss that.

[C]

You're not gonna want to miss that.

[B]

I'm telling you, tippity tap, tap, tap.

[C]

It's one night only, Babes got merch. One night only.

[B]

Exclusive to the event.

[C]

Do it.

[B]

I thought you were gonna say one night only again. You were just. Everything I said, even all the way through the case, you're like, one night only only. Oh, my God.

[C]

Oh, my God. But yeah, I had to get that in. And now we can get to our case. We're gonna everybo minute marker for when we shut the up and start talking about the case. This one's an easy one.

[B]

This one was quick. It's right now.

[C]

This one's quick.

[B]

So we're talking about Tilly Climack today. She is referred to as Mrs. Bluebeard of Chicago.

[C]

Oh, excuse me.

[B]

You do remember when we covered Mr. Bluebeard correct himself? Yeah. He was killing all his brides.

[C]

He sure was.

[B]

But you can guess what Tilly was doing.

[C]

She was killing all her men.

[B]

Maybe.

[C]

I feel.

[B]

Well, here's the thing. We don't actually know much about Tilly climax early life. Before she started killing all her men.

[C]

Before she started the murdering.

[B]

Yeah, with the murderin that made her famous. But before all that, she was born. By the way, there's a lot of Polish pronunciations in this. I'm literally married to a Polish man who has a Polish last name. So I'm gonna do my best. And I did look all these up, but I'm not sure if I'm gonna slay.

[C]

I have complete faith in you.

[B]

That's so nice. She says with a devilish grin. I have complete lol.

[C]

I really do. I meant that.

[B]

Thank you.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Well, she Was. Thank you, I appreciate it. She was born Otelia Gibjerk.

[C]

Ooh, I like it. I wish she could have seen the oop face.

[B]

She did like, oh, I hope I did it. She was born in Poland in 1876 some time ago. And she immigrated to the US with her parents, Michael and Michaelina Gbrick when she was about 4 years old. So she was. She ended up being raised in an area of Chicago known as Little Poland, where obviously a lot of other Polish immigrants were living. And because of that, she really didn't have to learn English for a long time. So when she did eventually learn English, it wasn't like, obviously it's not her first language, so it wasn't like super strong. Just keep that in mind for later.

[C]

Imagine knowing several languages, like well enough to have a conversation.

[B]

I wish that I was better than I am because I'd like to be like genuinely fluent in another.

[C]

I thought you meant just in general.

[B]

I said, can I talk to you? Can I just let something off my chest? I wish I was a better. I just wish I was better than I am. I was like, whoa, I'm looking at the woman in the mirror. I'm asking her to change her ways.

[C]

I love it. And learn another language and learn another, become bilingual. That's what we want.

[B]

So in 1890, when she was just 14 years old, Tilly married 17 year old Joseph Mickiewic, another Polish immigrant who had come to the US right around

[A]

the same time as her family.

[B]

Five years later, Tilly gave birth to a son that they named Joseph Jr. And her husband found work with the Illinois Central Railroad. Her first marriage is kind of mysterious. It's not as publicized as the ones that came next. And for whatever reason, it also lasted considerably longer than her following marriages. But the relationship did come to an end with Joseph's unexpected death in January of 1914.

[C]

Here it is.

[B]

The coroner said heart trouble.

[C]

Oh.

[B]

But his death allowed Tilly to cash in on a $1,000 life insurance policy.

[C]

Look at that.

[B]

Once she did that, she wasted no time finding a new husband. Now at the time, his death didn't seem super suspicious. Chicago was a very fast paced environment and he was just, just kind of a day to day guy. So his death really didn't make it onto that many people's radar. He also worked in a dangerous and stressful industry. So it wasn't that crazy that he died from heart trouble. Okay. And at that time, it wouldn't have been that unusual for Tilly to move on so quickly. She didn't have a job. She was a widow now with a child to care for.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So grief was a luxury that she could not afford for very long.

[C]

Yeah. That is the. That's the truth of the time.

[B]

It is now. In February of 1914, just one month after Joseph's death, Tilly married Joseph Ruskowski. But that marriage proved to be very short lived. By May, he was dead.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

January, February, March, April. Three months.

[C]

Holy shit.

[B]

Dead. Until he inherited his $1,200 in savings and $722 from an insurance policy. Altogether today, that would be like $63,000. Damn good chunk of change. Now, just like she had with her first husband's death, she did not waste much time on grieving. And within a few months, she had started up a new relationship, using some of her latest inheritance to fund a vacation to Milwaukee. Oh, such a luxurious place.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Isn't that Cream City?

[C]

It's that.

[B]

I think that's Cream City.

[C]

Wow. Yeah.

[B]

Sports, you know, so we. It actually me up the first time I saw that on their basketball court.

[C]

It me up.

[B]

But I don't think it's always there. I. I think it was a special thing.

[C]

It was just special. I guess it was a special moment.

[B]

So, yeah, she went to Cream City with her new boyfriend. And that's not a euphemism, Hol. So it's pretty clear that her intention was to quickly win a marriage proposal from this man's. Yeah, but unfortunately, you bring them there.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Bring your man's to Kring City. You're looking for a ring.

[C]

Secure that marriage proposal.

[B]

Now, unfortunately though, when she raised the subject of marriage, he laughed at her proposal of marriage, which is not nice.

[C]

Very rude.

[B]

And she was enraged.

[C]

I would be.

[B]

She said, take me seriously. By the way, contrary to popular belief, my previous two husbands didn't die of natural causes. I poisoned them. So don't mess with me. Whoa, like I don't think that's going

[C]

to help your case.

[B]

Has a man to marry you.

[C]

Has that worked with anyone getting a marriage proposal?

[B]

Let us know.

[C]

Yeah, write it.

[B]

We won't submit you to the authorities. No, not at all. So she immediately realized that she had made a serious mistake in confessing to murder. Yeah. Not only was he now highly unlikely to marry her, but he was also likely to dial 911 and report an emergency.

[C]

Yeah, about that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So hoping to prevent the inevitable, Tilly threatened to report him to the authorities for violating the Man act, which was a 1910 U.S. law that criminalized the transportation of Women across state lines for immoral purposes. Oh, I think they just call that sex trafficking now.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Guskowski, in response, told her if she did that, he would tell the authorities that she was a murderess.

[C]

They're like, you know what? Let's go our separate ways.

[B]

Yeah. The argument just kind of ended there.

[A]

But a few days after they returned

[B]

home to Chicago, he died unexpectedly.

[C]

Sir, did you eat something that she served?

[B]

Might have, because that's wild work. He might have.

[C]

That's wild work.

[B]

Yeah. Holy shit. So after the death of Guskowski, Tilly didn't head straight out to find a new man's this time. Instead, she just lived with a man known only by the last name of Myers. During their time together, she would usually introduce herself as Mrs. Myers, even though they were not officially married. And she seemed to just be living off the money from the inheritances and all the insurance policies of her old husbands. But neighbors did recall a man living with her for at least some amount of time until he just vanished at the end of 1918.

[C]

Maybe it was Michael Myers.

[B]

Maybe that's why he's pissed. He peaced out.

[C]

Yeah, that's why he's mad.

[B]

He said, I have a girl named Lori back home.

[C]

I gotta go.

[B]

Maybe, maybe. So this period of living as Mrs. Myers came to an end when Michael left and in March of 1919, when Tilly married her third husband, Frank Kupchik. But if the marriage was ever a happy one, it did not last very long. So by this time, the money from the inheritances and the insurances had probably run out. And that meant that Tilly had to get her ass a job. So she started working at a local tailoring shop in order to support herself and her husband, her new husband. At the same time, neighbors started to notice that every day after her husband Frank went to work, another man that she only referred to as John would stop by the apartment to, quote, smooch Tilly on the porch.

[C]

Oh, you don't say.

[B]

She was side smooching.

[C]

This is scandaloso.

[B]

Yeah, bitch.

[C]

Just stopping by for a smooch on

[B]

the porch right after Frank leaves for work. Right on his porch.

[C]

Damn.

[B]

Fucked up.

[A]

So things carried on that way between

[B]

Frank and Tilly Smoochin and apparently John.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. For two years. Until one day in 1921 when Frank became seriously ill. Now, to their neighbors, it seemed that his condition was dire. But Tilly was chilling. She did not seem alarmed in the slightest.

[C]

It's a red flag.

[B]

In fact, as far as they could tell, she almost Seemed light hearted about his illness.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

Years later, during her trial, her landlady, Martha Weseleck, recalled one afternoon when Tilly, quote, came out in the yard with a piece of newspaper all about a fine coffin for $30 that she was going to get for Frank.

[C]

Holy shit.

[A]

Can you imagine?

[C]

No.

[B]

She's just like advertising to the townspeople,

[C]

like, this is the coffin. I'm going to get this $30 coffin.

[B]

Not dead yet, but he will be.

[C]

Damn.

[B]

So Veselek was horrified by how cavalier that she was being about Frank's very serious illness. According to the landlady, this was only one of many suspicions and callous statements made by Tilly at the time.

[A]

Other neighbors also recalled her knitting a

[B]

hat for herself that she said she was going to wear to Frank's funeral.

[C]

She is planning for this like you plan for Coachella. Yeah, like she's gonna have the whole fit ready.

[B]

Nice coffin.

[C]

So place to stay. Yep.

[B]

Holy.

[C]

Yeah, I can't stop saying holy.

[B]

Holy.

[C]

She just doesn't give a.

[B]

Some people also remembered that she would just casually talk about how Frank had, quote, 2 inches to live, implying that he was going to be dead soon.

[C]

I think it was that metric of measurement. Sounds like it doesn't fit here.

[B]

It doesn't. I think that might have been a language barrier thing.

[C]

Oh, perhaps.

[B]

So she was like, two seconds to live. I don't know.

[C]

Yeah. Who knows? I mean, but maybe. Maybe she made up a new saying.

[B]

Either way, not. Not a lot of time to live.

[C]

No, not a lot.

[B]

So whether she was joking or not, it turned out that she was in fact correct about Frank's future. A few days later, on April 25, 1921, Frank Kupchic died in their apartment.

[C]

Oh, boy.

[B]

During the funeral a few days later, with Frank's body on display for mourn for mourners. For mourners, Tilly played upbeat dance music on a record player.

[C]

Holy shit.

[B]

Holy shit.

[C]

One night only. One night only.

[B]

One night only, she said.

[C]

That's really f ed up.

[B]

Yeah. One mourner recalled later that at one point during the funeral, Tilly reached into the coffin and grabbed Frank's ear, shouting, you devil. You won't get up anymore. Oh, my God. Yeah, she's nuts.

[C]

What? I just can't imagine being at this.

[B]

I would be like, what do you do?

[C]

What are you to do? What are you meant to do in this?

[B]

I think you just leave. I think you leave your well, respects with Frank and you say, you deserved better.

[C]

Grab his ear. Be like, you devil. You're dead.

[B]

Like, that's crazy. It is.

[C]

It is. In fact, that's crazy work.

[B]

Yeah. They were like, is she drunk?

[C]

Holy.

[B]

So the next day, after assaulting her husband's dead body, she collected $675, which would be like $11,000 today.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Just about.

[B]

From his life insurance policy. And she set out to find herself a new husband.

[C]

Yeah. Cuz like she said, you won't get up anymore. No. Like, my goodness, Tilly.

[B]

I know.

[C]

Poor Frank.

[B]

So everybody who knew her to that point knew that she was a very brash woman with a unusual sense of humor, you could say. But even to those who knew her well, they had to admit that her attitude around Frank's death was suspicious and crass. Yeah. Yeah. To the more superstitious among them, too,

[A]

the fact that she seemed to have

[B]

the ability to predict her husband's death was evidence of strong psychic abilities.

[C]

Oh, yeah. What's. Let's call her a witch.

[B]

They said she seems psychic or murderous. That's the thing. Others quietly gossiped about her potential involvement.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

The realists among us.

[C]

Could be a psychic, could be homicidal,

[B]

could be psychic, could be a murderess.

[C]

Real toss up here. Yeah. Especially with the way she's acting. Real toss up.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know? Yeah.

[B]

Crazy gal. So when it came to the neighborhood gossip, she provided more than enough material. In the wake of Frank's death. When her previous relationships ended with the quote, unquote, untimely deaths of her husbands, she waited at least a few weeks before looking for a new man to get together with.

[C]

Oh, good.

[B]

This time she didn't actually even wait until the end of the funeral before cozying up to the recently widowed Joseph Climack, who was also a friend of Frank's. And at the funeral.

[C]

So this man was at the funeral where she grabbed Frank's ear in the coffin and was like, you devil, you're not getting up anymore.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And was playing like uns, uns, uns, unt on the. And he's like, yeah, this will be fun. Well, my goodness.

[B]

That afternoon.

[C]

My goodness, Joseph.

[B]

I'm not sure what happened, because that afternoon their interaction was said to be casual and short. So maybe he stopped in after all the madness. Maybe he said, because he recalled later, she felt too bad to see people.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So maybe she had already left after causing that spectacle. They were like. Somebody was like, we should get her out of here.

[C]

Somebody was like, you should go home.

[B]

And Joseph was like, I don't know. He had to have seen her at some point because he was like, she felt too bad to see people, but she did allow herself to be pursued by him for a few weeks before

[C]

agreeing to marry him. Wow. So they.

[B]

They got to chatting at the funeral, and then they were like, let's get

[C]

married in a few weeks. Sounds great.

[A]

Sometimes I get into a rut where I'm making, like, the same three meals

[B]

on repeat because I'm just lacking inspiration, and that's fine. But sometimes I just want to spice it up in the kitchen. And with Hellofresh, you can cook up bold flavors from around the world without ever leaving home. I recently made the pot beef and black bean chili, and let me tell you, that was all the inspiration I needed to get out of my cooking rut. It was freaking delicious.

[A]

With HelloFresh, savoring new flavors from around the world isn't just delicious.

[B]

It's simple and it's wholesome.

[A]

Choose from more than 80 global recipes every month, including Vietnamese, Moroccan, Caribbean, and more. Cravings shouldn't wait for takeout. Get international ingredients sent straight to you. So dinner is always the destination. With Hellofresh, nothing hits like home cooking.

[B]

That chili was, first of all, so super duper easy to make.

[A]

It made for great leftovers. And it's so nice just like going

[B]

through the day and, you know, everybody gets that moment of like, oh, crap, what am I making for dinner?

[A]

To know that you have a couple of HelloFresh meals set up in your

[B]

fridge is like the best peace of mind. Like, you're not going to be scrambling around dinner time.

[A]

So go to hellofresh.commorbid10fm now to get

[B]

10 free meals plus a free NutriBullet Ultra plus two in one compact kitchen system. A $189.99 value on your third box. Free meals applied as a discount on the first box. New subscribers only.

[A]

Varies by plan.

[B]

Must order the third box by May 31, 2026.

[A]

Okay, brothers, here's the thing. I am so excited about spring. I'm going to be going on a couple of trips.

[B]

I'm moving. You know, I might take a dip

[A]

in a pool somewhere if it gets warm enough. So I really don't want to be, like, disappointing, discomforty and bloaty in the gut. And here's the thing.

[B]

I don't have to be. You don't have to let your gut

[A]

keep you from going with ritual.

[B]

Symbiotic Plus.

[A]

You only need one capsule a day

[B]

for simple, streamlined gut support. I'm obsessed with Symbiotic Plus. I take it every day.

[A]

In fact, I just remembered right now

[B]

I need to take my vitamins.

[A]

Symbiotic plus is a complete biotic formula

[B]

with clinically studied pre pro and postbiotics

[A]

in clinically studied doses to support a balanced gut microbiome. Just one daily mint scented capsule can

[B]

give you bloat, gut and regularity support plus. It's vegan friendly and formulated without GMOs, major allergens, animal products, shady fillers, and artificial colors. Bleh to all that. You're not going to find it here.

[A]

I love ritual products. First of all, once you set yourself

[B]

up, they come literally like to the T. I open the mailbox, I know it's going to be there. I was only taking a probiotic for

[A]

a little bit and then I heard about Rituals Symbiotic plus and I was

[B]

like, I can take a a pre pro and a post. Like what? I didn't even know I needed all of that.

[A]

But ever since I started taking it,

[B]

I can feel the difference.

[A]

I also love knowing that I have

[B]

high quality clean ingredients going through my system.

[A]

That's pretty solid.

[B]

So support a balanced gut microbiome with Ritual Symbiotic Plus.

[A]

Save 25% on your first month at ritual.commorbid that's ritual.commorbid for 25% off your first month. Did you know? Fast Growing Trees is America's largest and most trusted online nursery with thousands of trees and plants and over 2 million happy customers. They have all the plants that your

[B]

yard or your home needs, including fruit

[A]

trees, privacy trees, flowering trees, shrubs and houseplants, all grown with care and guaranteed to arrive healthy. It's like your local nursery, but anywhere. You live with more plants than you

[B]

would find anywhere else.

[A]

Plus, get ongoing support from trained plant experts who can help you plan your landscape, choose the right plants, and learn how to care for them every step of the way.

[B]

If you watch the podcast on YouTube,

[A]

you know that we just did a whole pod lab redo and part of that was bringing more plants into the space. And Fast Growing Trees was nice enough

[B]

to send us a bunch of plants we got.

[A]

Right now we just have the spider plant, but we have two Monstera plants on the way and that grown with care and guaranteed to arrive healthy bits is so true. They are literally priming these Monstera plants so that they are super healthy when they get here. And gorgeous, gorgeous girlies, I love our spider plant. Debbie's gonna propagate it to make her own spider plant.

[B]

Everybody's jealous of our spider plant, so you should probably order a Spider plant

[A]

or a monstera plant or any kind of fast growing tree or shrub or flowering bush that you want because they have good stuff right now. They have great deals on spring planting essentials. Up to half off on select plants.

[B]

And listeners to our show get 20% off their first purchase when using the

[A]

code morbid at checkout offers valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply.

[B]

He later said that he married her for a nice home because she was a good cook and kept a clean space.

[C]

At least there's that.

[B]

Men are simple creatures.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

By the time they were married, he had already heard some of the rumors and gossip about her past with men and just her in general. But he didn't care and he didn't believe any of it. He said, as soon as we married, she burned all the photographs of her husband's and her man friends and she tore up all her letters. She had my picture on the mantel. That was all you said?

[C]

No more man friends?

[B]

No more man friends. Just me on the mantel.

[C]

Babe, I'm your only man friend.

[B]

One man friend for you, girl.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So he might have believed that Tilly had changed her ways and was committed to him since his picture was on the mantel and all. Yeah, but survey said that was a lie. Within a few months, Tilly was openly complaining about her marriage, especially to her cousin Nellie Kulik. According to Nellie, when she suggested that Tilly get a divorce if she was so unhappy, Tilly said, no, I'll get rid of him some other way.

[C]

Just divorce him.

[B]

You could just divorce him, but you won't get the life insurance.

[C]

In that case, why the murder?

[B]

Well, at the end of the year, Tilly learned that Joseph had a thousand dollar life insurance policy with the Catholic Order of Foresters. I don't know if that means that they're like Catholic tree people.

[C]

Yeah, I was going to say that. You know what? They're known to have pretty solid life insurance policies, I think.

[B]

Like oak.

[C]

Yeah, like both.

[B]

So she insisted that this was not enough money. And she said, you need to increase that and also make me the beneficiary. I'm your wife now.

[C]

Of course.

[B]

And she said it was also important because she was in fact psychic like the townspeople had said. And she'd had a premonition that Joseph was going to die soon and. And if he did, she didn't want to be poor with him being gone.

[C]

Imagine your, your spouse saying that to you.

[B]

Also like your new spouse. Yeah.

[C]

And they're like, you know, everybody thinks I'm Psychic. And I did have a vision.

[B]

You're going to die where you die,

[C]

and I would like your money if that's the case. Like, what do you do?

[B]

Yeah. In the days that followed, she would just walk around their house telling him, you're pretty near dead now.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[B]

And then she say, didn't I tell you? You're not gonna live long? Scary, scary. He is the origin story of, I

[C]

think I'm gonna die in this house. That's where that came from.

[B]

Yeah. But guess what? He was brave. He declined to add any more coverage to his shit.

[C]

He said, I'm not dying in this house.

[B]

And.

[C]

No.

[B]

He said, I don't think I'm gonna

[C]

die in this house.

[B]

And he also made his son the beneficiary of the policy, which then caused Tilly to take out two life insurance policies on him and accident insurance, all in his name.

[C]

The red flags are piling up.

[B]

They're flagging. Yeah, the flags are flagging.

[C]

They're blankets.

[B]

So once the new policies were in place, Joseph's mysterious illnesses quickly followed. It started with, quote, shooting pains in his arms and legs.

[C]

Hmm.

[B]

And then his arms and legs became stiff and eventually numb. So he was, like, basically paralyzed.

[C]

Holy shit.

[B]

His breath also started to smell strongly of garlic, even though he wasn't eating very garlicky foods. Within a few days, his symptoms became so severe that he was paralyzed from the waist down. Oh, my. And trigger warning for animal death. At the same time, two of his dogs also died from a mysterious illness after eating food scraps from his plate at the table.

[C]

Oh, is. Is this arsenic?

[B]

Could be. Okay, good call. Was it the Jarlic?

[C]

It's the Jarlic.

[A]

So Joseph had been seen by Tilly's doctor and had been given multiple prescriptions.

[B]

But nothing seemed to be helping the pain or the numbness that he was experiencing. After Joseph suffered for several days, his brother John.

[C]

I just feel bad.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Me too. After he was suffering, his brother John insisted that he needed to see a different doctor. He needed a second opinion. Until he was like, no, it's fine. She said, my doctor is the tits, and I'm more than capable of caring for my husband. And she said, I don't need help from a stranger.

[C]

No way.

[B]

And John said, hey, that's cool, but I'm not a stranger because he's my brother. Yeah, like what, girl?

[C]

Huh?

[B]

So he was like, no, no, no, no, no. I'm arranging for a physician to look him over of my choosing. So he hired Dr. P.T. burns to check in on his brother, Burns took one look at Joseph and immediately, like Elena, recognized the telltale signs of arsenic poisoning. According to Burns, Klimick showed every evidence of a slow poison. But to be sure, he returned later that afternoon to double check the symptoms. And that only convinced him further. So Dr. Burns had Joseph taken to the hospital where the other doctors predicted that he had, quote, this is wild about an equal chance to live or die.

[C]

That's literally the worst thing I can imagine hearing. Imagine? No, like, imagine kind of like life.

[B]

Yeah, that, that does have. I'm sure many people have, but like,

[C]

why, why did you need a medical degree to tell me that? I feel like that's just every day we roll the dice.

[B]

Do you know about coin tosses?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Pick heads or tails.

[C]

He said that's basically where you are.

[B]

Your life is a penny.

[C]

Like, isn't that where all of us are? Yeah. Equal chances to live or die.

[B]

Yeah, pretty much. So once he'd been removed from the house, Dr. Burns checked in with the attending doctor and got a list of all the prescriptions that Joseph had been given. Because medicine did contain arsenic back then.

[C]

Yeah. Remember, arsenic was everywhere.

[B]

Literally. It was in cosmetics, like all that shit. So he was like, okay, maybe that's the case here. Like, maybe one of your medicines has arsenic in it and you're like overdoing it or something like that. So he took all of the medications to a chemist, Dr. William McNally, who tested each individual medication and confirmed that all of them showed evidence of arsenic. Oh, but they weren't supposed to. Oh, they weren't medicines that were supposed to have arsenic included amongst the ingredients. So that meant that somebody had intentionally poisoned him.

[C]

My, how the turns have tabled.

[B]

Yeah. It's so crazy. We didn't see this coming.

[C]

I can't believe she. She was putting arsenic in his medication. I think probably because she knows they're all getting suspicious of eating her food.

[B]

Yeah, probably.

[C]

So she's like, why? They're not going to be suspicious of their meds.

[B]

I think it may have been a mixture of both, to be honest with you. So Burns reported his findings and all of the results of the chemical analysis to police, conveying to them that he suspected Tilly of poisoning her husband. Wow. They reviewed the evidence and everything that they had already started to hear about Tilly in years past. In October 26, 1922, detectives not only arrested Tilly, but her 26 year old son Joseph at their home. The announcement of Tilly's arrest in the newspapers seemed to kind of break A dam on local gossip.

[C]

Oh, no.

[B]

And within hours, investigators were receiving anonymous letters just, like, in tons. So they were like, please exhume all of the bodies of her previous husbands and examine them for signs of poisoning.

[C]

Shit's going down for real.

[B]

In their search of her apartment or their apartment together, investigators discovered a bottle of arsenic labeled rough on rats.

[C]

Rough on rats.

[B]

And Tilly's son said, that belonged to a former nurse who lived with us the previous year. Like, that's. That's not ours. It's just here.

[C]

I also love that. It's like, it's rat poison, essentially. And he's like, oh, no. A nurse lived here because she used arsenic. And you're like, babe, that's rat poison. Like, you didn't need to throw the nurse in there.

[B]

No.

[C]

To see that belonged to a previous owner.

[B]

Or just say, like, yeah, we have that because we had a rat problem.

[C]

It's a rat poison. Like, he's like, no, that was a nurse.

[B]

He's like, not ours. Wasn't me.

[C]

Definitely medical.

[B]

At the station, Tilly was relentlessly questioned by detectives. And now the state's attorney, who suspected her not just of attempted murder, but of multiple murders at this point.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[B]

They demanded to know how it was that the two dogs who had eaten from Joseph Plate also came to die. Yeah. And she insisted. They just fell over and died. You can't make me a poisoner. I'll show you that. My first husband had an infection in his throat.

[C]

I'll show you.

[B]

Thank you. Thank you so much.

[C]

Do you have his throat, man?

[B]

Do you have his larynx?

[C]

Like, what is going on?

[B]

I don't know if she just meant, like, I'll take you to the doctor.

[C]

That I'll show you.

[B]

But also, her first husband died of heart problems.

[C]

Oops.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So wipes.

[B]

What was that, baby? She's like, did you lose track of husbands?

[C]

His throat hurt, too.

[B]

So while she was at the police station claiming innocence, Joseph, her husband, was at the hospital telling police a very different story. According to him, he had been examined by a doctor a few weeks earlier after his wife took out a new life insurance policy. And he immediately fell ill, he said. A week or two later, after the examination, I found I couldn't smoke anymore.

[C]

Oh, no.

[B]

One day, my soup tasted strange. Another time, the coffee was funny. Then I began to get sick. I seem to be burning up. I'm afraid someone poisoned me in a plot In a plot, in a plot they poisoned me in a plot he wouldn't name Tilly outright. But it was pretty clear to the detectives that if anybody had poisoned this guy, it would have to be somebody who had access to his food and, like, his personal belongings.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

There was nobody else in the house who stood to gain more from Joseph's death either than his wife. And she did seem to have a history of men dying around her not long after getting married and acted quite

[C]

crazy at their funerals.

[B]

Yeah, that was. That was pretty violent. That was her. That's. That's just Tilly.

[C]

Yeah, that's just Tilly things.

[B]

So at the precinct, investigators confronted Tilly with all of the evidence and their theory. They're like, hey, you know how, like, you have this string of husbands that turns up dead and now, like, your current husband is on the precipice of death, you know, 50, 50, give or take.

[C]

It's weird.

[B]

We think you might have something to do with that.

[C]

Yeah. Strange.

[B]

And she broke down and confessed that she tried to poison Joseph because he was, quote, fooling around with other women.

[C]

Oh, no.

[B]

I was like, baby, even if that's the case, you can't try to kill him. And, like, they're not going to understand that.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Just let him. Let him be a fool.

[B]

Now, to add even more salaciousness to this, according to Tilly, she received the poison from her cousin Nellie.

[C]

Oh.

[B]

And she said she started putting it in her husband's food after he was examined for the life insurance policy.

[C]

Oh.

[B]

A few days later, the coroner exhumed Fred Kupchik's body for analysis. I think I believe that was her first husband. And discovered that his remains still contained arsenic. Enough to kill four men. Holy shit. Yeah.

[C]

It hadn't even degraded. That's how much it was. Damn.

[B]

Which also, like, obviously some of it probably had degraded. And there was still enough.

[C]

It was still that high.

[B]

To kill four men.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

the same time, the case appeared to expand with the arrest now of Tilly's cousin Nelly. Yeah. Who was also suspected of murder.

[C]

Nelly and Tilly.

[B]

Just like her cousin Tilly. A surprising number of people around Nelly seem to have fallen ill or died from mysterious causes, including her late husband, who was Voicy Sturmer.

[C]

I would never suspect Nelly and Tilly.

[B]

I know.

[C]

Murdering people.

[B]

Well, that's the thing. Nobody did for a while. Until you can only murder so many people.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Until people start to, like, literally people

[C]

that you are really connected to. Yeah. Constantly.

[B]

Like, the most connected to.

[C]

And that you stand to gain financially from murdering.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You gotta.

[B]

It's good that they weren't undercover.

[C]

Keep doing that. That's gonna catch up with you.

[B]

And it did. One of the notes that police received after Tilly's arrest indicated that Nelly's husband had been fact. Been poisoned by her.

[C]

Oh, boy.

[B]

And initially, the note wasn't given a lot of attention. But once they learned that Tilly got the poison from her cousin, that's when they started to look at her as an accomplice. Like.

[C]

Wait a minute.

[B]

So the arrest of Nelly caused a sensation among the press, who immediately started to speculate about her. Her being a second Mrs. Bluebeard.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[B]

In 1920 Chicago, it wouldn't have been that surprising for a woman to kill her husband, which is crazy.

[C]

Especially if she thought he was sentence. I know.

[B]

Especially if she thought he was cheating on her with another woman. Apparently, that was like an epidemic.

[C]

Dang.

[B]

But two women seemingly working together to murder their husbands for money. That was a good story.

[C]

That is a good story.

[B]

As far as the press were concerned. That's a. That's good.

[C]

That is.

[B]

It's going to pay the bills, sell the tapes. So each day, the story seemed to get more and more sensationalized. Just one day after Nelly's arrest, investigators announced that they were exhuming the bodies of each woman's first husband to search for signs of poisoning.

[C]

This is very salacious. It is.

[B]

And since Nellie's husband died one year before Tilly's first husband, the press speculated that Tilly, quote, may have been a student of Ms. Sturmer.

[C]

Oh, my goodness.

[B]

So they were like, is Nellie like the OG Mrs. Bluebeard.

[C]

And then the student surpasses the teacher.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Damn.

[B]

In a series of events that we really.

[C]

Yeah, we're not. Very unfortunate events.

[B]

Lemony snake.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So the discovery of arsenic and the remains of two now of Tilly's dead husbands prompted police to expand their potential victim pool. And they started taking the claims and assertions previously regarded as gossip seriously.

[C]

Now you have to.

[B]

For example, Harry Sweeta, one of Tilly's cousins, told the attorney General that his sister, who also would have been Tilly's cousin, his sister Rose, died mysteriously after attending a dinner at Tilly's apartment.

[C]

And here I am overcooking my chicken. Yeah, to hell. Because I'm scared of giving someone a tummy ache.

[B]

I know, I know. You take chicken precautions so seriously.

[C]

And this woman, you come to her house, you might die.

[B]

You might, in fact, die. Especially if she doesn't like you. Damn. Another cousin, Elizabeth Ventowski, told investigators about the unexpected death of two of her sisters and a brother, all of whom had dined with Tilly shortly before they died.

[C]

What the actual yeah. How many people has she murdered?

[B]

The thing is, we're not sure.

[C]

The limit does not exist. Period.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, there's actually no period as far as Tilly's concerned with an ellipses many There's a series of ellipses. With each new claim came a new order to exhume another body. And soon Dr. McNally, the coroner, was completely overwhelmed by requests for analysis of so many different so many.

[A]

Chime makes your everyday spending work harder by delivering real rewards and financial progress. Chime is not just smarter banking. It's the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. It just takes a few minutes to sign up. Head to chime.commorbid that is chime.commorbid Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank.

[B]

Banking Services the secured Chime, Visa credit

[A]

card and MyPay line of credit provided

[B]

by the Bancorp Bank NA or Stride Bank NA.

[A]

MyPay eligibility requirements apply in credit limit ranges 20 to $500.

[B]

Optional services and products may have fees or charges.

[A]

See chime.com feesinfo advertise annual percentage yield with Chime plus status only.

[B]

Otherwise 1% APY applies.

[A]

No minimum balance required. Chime card on payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See chime.com for details and applicable terms. Spring is here and it's the perfect time for a closet reset, focusing more on quality over quantity.

[B]

This season, build a wardrobe of pieces

[A]

that are well made, versatile, and easy to reach for every day. With Quince I am obsessed with quince. I have a ton of stuff from quince. With quince you get fabrics that feel elevated, fits that are well thought out, and pricing that actually makes sense. Their spring pieces are lightweight, they're breathable, they're effortless. The kind of thing that you can actually throw on and instantly look put together. That's what I love. All of their pieces are super duper classy and on trend at the same time, but on trend in a way that doesn't feel like it's going to go out of the style. Polka dots are huge right now and for me that's everything because I love polka dots and I always have. I actually just got the 100% washable silk strapless scarf maxi dress and I got the polka dotted version. Let me tell you, it is so

[B]

soft it feels like butter going on your body and I love it.

[A]

I can't wait to wear that this spring. They also have really cute linen shirt dresses that you can just throw on and you instantly look put together and

[B]

very chic, might I add.

[A]

Refresh your spring wardrobe with quint. Go to quint.commorbid for free shipping and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. Go to Q-U-I-N-C-E.commorbid for free shipping, and 365 day returns. Quints.commorbid this is a paid ad by BetterHelp Financial Stress truly affects so many people and it can be a lot. It can affect more than just money. It can affect your day to day life, how you deal with your partner, how you're showing up in your life. But guess what? BetterHelp connects people with fully qualified therapists who can help them manage the emotional weight that comes with financial stress. Financial stress extends beyond a budget. It can disrupt sleep, it can increase your anxiety, contribute to, like I said, tension in relationships. BetterHelp works with over 30,000 fully qualified therapists. A short questionnaire matches you with somebody based on your needs so you can focus on your goals instead of navigating the search process. With more than 12 years of experience and an industry leading match rate, BetterHelp typically gets it right the first time. But if it's not the right fit, you can switch at any time. BetterHelp has served over 6 million people globally and may help if financial stress is weighing on you. When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com morbid that's betterhelp H-E-L-P.com morpid.

[B]

So despite their strong suspicions that there were in fact other victims, the state Attorney's office only had Tilly's confession to the attempted poisoning of her current husband, which obviously, obviously was not a murder because he's still alive. But there was a strong enough case to prosecute her for the murder of. I was incorrect. Her third husband. Originally I thought that was her first. Oh my goodness, there's so many of them. Her third husband, Frank Kupchik. Damn. So he was the one who. She had put enough arsenic to kill four. Kill four men. At least. Now on November 11, 1922, Tilly was formally charged with Frank's murder and she pleaded not guilty. At the same time, Nelly was charged with the murder of her husband, Boy Cheek Sturmer. In the meantime, investigators just continued to dig into their past, looking for even More potential victims. After their arraignment, the Mrs. Bluebeard story seemed to grow even larger, at least as far as the press was. Was concerned. Just one day after Tilly and Nelly appeared in court, the papers were announcing the discovery of even more potential victims.

[C]

Holy.

[B]

Including Tilly's former husband, Joseph Raskowski. And this is horrible. Two of Nelly's children, both of whom died in infancy.

[C]

Holy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now, there was no evidence of foul

[B]

play, but the press did imply that six of Nelly's children had died under mysterious circumstances.

[C]

What?

[B]

And they started comparing her Untily to Belle Gunness.

[C]

Oh, my God. I was. I was wondering if that was gonna be a comparison. Yeah, we haven't done. I think. Is it gonna. Gunness or ganess?

[B]

Oh, it might be Ganess.

[C]

I think it might be Guinness. I'm not positive, but yeah. Well, we will cover that, I think, eventually, because a lot of people know about that case, and it is highly requested. It's a terrible one.

[B]

She just kills, like, all of her children, right? And, like, legit babies.

[C]

Yeah, she's pretty terrible. Yeah. But she. But her story is unbelievable in the worst way.

[A]

Do you remember that old show? I don't know if it was on.

[B]

ID Killer Women.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That was the first time I ever saw that.

[C]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yeah, that saw that case.

[C]

Damn.

[B]

So she was famous because she had been arrested a decade earlier, which is crazy to think that was a decade before all of this. Now, the claims were given credibility when Nelly's husband's body was exhumed and his remains were found to contain traces of arsenic.

[C]

Oh, damn.

[B]

So she's in on this.

[C]

She's in on it.

[B]

With each day that passed, Tilly and Nelly's suspected body count just continued to increase and came to include former husbands, family members, neighbors, pretty much anyone who died while under their care, or anyone who had been recently in the company of either woman.

[C]

Holy.

[B]

By mid November, the suspected number of victims had risen to 20 people. And that was just as they were indicted by a grand jury.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Their trial was scheduled for winter 1923. And in the meantime, investigators just continued to build their case, and the press continued their daily coverage of every sensational aspect of the story that they could come up with, which they didn't even really have to come up with much. It was all just there.

[C]

It was all there.

[B]

The intense press coverage made Tilly kind of a celebrity. And she gave interviews from her jail cell. I know. I hate that part of murder investigations and trials and everything, that they're, like,

[C]

giving interviews and Shit.

[B]

The accused definitely do start to become, like, weird celebrities. Yeah, but she commented on everything from previous relationships with men to her opinions on young people, and even the rising popularity of flappers.

[C]

Babe, no one should hear your opinion on young people or your opinion on

[B]

flappers or your relationships with men.

[C]

Yeah, I definitely don't want to hear that. No, we know your relationships with men.

[B]

Exactly. She told one reporter. Me, I came to this country when I was a year old from Germany. No foolishness with us.

[C]

We work.

[B]

Basically indicating that she didn't think young people worked anymore.

[C]

Oh, damn.

[B]

Okay, I know she was mad. However, when it came to the actual charges against her, she didn't really say very much, and she just wasn't interested in talking about it. Just super, like, whatever. Yeah. Very superficial about it all. Now, if she appeared calm and collected when it came to the press, Nelly was the exact opposite.

[C]

Oh.

[B]

Whenever she gave statements to the press, she seemed very anxious, very overly emotional. She once begged a reporter, write to my children. Write to my people. Tell them not to believe all they hear. Now, to spectators following the case, Tilly was exactly the type of woman who seemed as at home in a jail cell as she did in her own apartment.

[C]

She didn't give a. Tilly was made for this life.

[B]

She literally was. But Nelly was out of place, like she was losing her mind.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

By the end of November, investigators announced that they were searching for a third. Third potential conspirator in the case.

[C]

My goodness.

[B]

Nelly's current friend and former border Mary Wojevsky. According to the press, Boy Chevsky's husband and his brother both died, quote, after drinking beer at a party at which Ms. Kulik was present. And they believe the death was due to arsenic.

[C]

How much arsenic did these women have?

[A]

Arsenic was just like.

[B]

I think like, CVS had arsenic back then.

[C]

God damn.

[B]

It was just like, go down the street and grab some arsenic.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And also, I guess you could just buy rat poison.

[C]

Yeah, there's that.

[B]

Now, additional arrests were made. Nelly's sister was arrested, and her niece was arrested on suspicion of murder.

[C]

Just a group of girls.

[B]

The press started referring to the women as the Bluebeard clique.

[C]

Whoa.

[B]

And they called Tilly the high priestess of the group.

[C]

Get the out of here.

[B]

I was like, don't call her the high priestess. That's so like you.

[C]

I know. So you're mixing your references here. It just doesn't make sense.

[B]

Yeah, don't over egg the plan.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Tilly finally went on trial in early March of 1923 with Assistant State Attorney William McLaughlin prosecuting. I always think of John when I hear that name. By then, they all, as a group, had been indicted on six murders.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

In his opening statement, McLaughlin presented the cases, the state's case, in simple terms. He said the two women had planned and carried out a wholesale poison plot which claimed at least six lives and caused serious illness to nearly a score more.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

And he said they did this through a series of poison parties.

[C]

Poison parties.

[B]

And that their motives ranged from financial gain to ridding themselves of anyone they disliked.

[C]

Poison parties.

[B]

Poison parties. Like. Like a Tupperware party.

[C]

Holy shit.

[B]

Or a Botox party.

[C]

Wow. Yeah.

[B]

After listing out all the names of those believed to have been killed by the pair and those also made ill, McLaughlin announced that if convicted, they would be seeking the death penalty.

[C]

Damn.

[B]

Which was not. That didn't happen all that often.

[C]

And especially with women.

[B]

No. So over the course of the week long trial, witnesses included six physicians, a chemist, four nurses and several insurance agents, as you can imagine, who all testified against the accused. By far the most entertaining were a trio of gravediggers and an undertaker who were all neighbors of Tilly and her husband. Around the time of his death, one of the undertakers told the jury, frank used to leave for work every day at 6. And I'd often see John Koski come over to visit Tilly. Once I seen him kiss her. So they're like, here we go.

[C]

Talking about John coming for the smooches. They said she's a trollop they said she be smoochin'.

[B]

One thing about Tilly, don't let anyone.

[C]

She stays smoochin John. She's a smoochin bandit Always John.

[B]

It's always John she's got a thing for him. Now the most compelling evidence came from the doctors and nurses who were actively still treating Joseph Climack, who was still too ill to testify against his wife at that point.

[C]

Yeah. Did. Did we all forget he's still alive?

[B]

He's still alive. According to nurse Mildred Scully.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

Who I would trust with my fucking life.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

And who had been treating Joseph while he was still in the home. Tilly routinely made tasteless jokes about her husband's impending death and on one occasion told the nurse, if he makes any trouble for you, take a 2x4 board and hit him over the head with it.

[C]

So here's the thing that's a little bit funny. Funny as hell. Yeah. And if she wasn't a mass murderer, that like a serial killer. I'd be like, that's just Regular like, you've been married and you're trying to be funny when your husband's, like, in

[B]

a shitty position, but then you look at it in context.

[C]

But then you look at it like she's a serial killer and actually does harm people. You're like, oh, that's the scariest thing I've ever heard. Because she's actually telling you to do that. Yeah. But, like, you could see some, like, you know, feisty lady just being like, he's giving you trouble. Just hit him with a two by four. Like, that would be funny.

[B]

I guarantee you, at least 14 people listening, their NANAs have said that about

[C]

100% as, like, a total joke. But you're looking at it here and you're like, oh.

[B]

Oh.

[C]

She meant. That's dork's eye.

[B]

She meant it. And she said, the two by four is right there.

[C]

Yeah, that's sinister.

[B]

She said, do it.

[C]

You won't.

[B]

Sinister. So apparently she smiled, too, during the trial when Mildred was testifying about that and everybody in the jury was like, she's smiling over there.

[C]

She's sitting there being like, that was a good joke.

[B]

She's like, she's like me. She finds. But this is the only way we're similar. She find she cracks herself up. Yeah.

[C]

No one finds Tilly funnier than Tilly.

[B]

And no one finds Ash funnier than Ash. I crack myself up.

[C]

She does.

[B]

I love it. So for the most part, Tilly sat emotionless behind the defendant's table while each witness, as they came one by one, testified against her. She did become emotional when the chemist, Dr. William McNally, took the stand. Interestingly, when he entered the witness box, the press noted that Tilly, quote, jammered her stocky body well back in the chair and swung her feet in incessant circles as she tried to understand the testimony.

[C]

Love how they had to throw in Stocky there.

[B]

Not only if you actually, like. Let me read that for you one more time. Jammed her stocky body well into the chair and swung her feet in incessant circles as she tried to understand the testimony. They said, that is stocky and dumb.

[C]

She's blocky and dumb.

[B]

That's really rude.

[C]

They said, she's a Minecraft character and she's dumb.

[B]

Not a Minecraft character. Like, whoa, now. She seemed anxious when she was a Minecraft chemo character, as the chemist explained in plain detail all of the symptoms about arsenic poisoning and confirmed that all three of Tilly's dead husbands had in fact been poisoned. Despite the compelling body of evidence and all the testimony against her, she still proved to be a pretty strong witness when she took the stand in her own defense.

[C]

That's wild.

[B]

Which is much like Joseph's. He could live or he could die.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Taking your own. Taking the stand in your own defense. You could live or you could die.

[C]

A gamble.

[B]

Dressed in plain black attire with a translator by her side, she strongly and repeatedly denied killing anyone, including her husband, Frank K. When asked directly whether she was responsible for Frank's death, she replied, I certainly was not. He died by moonshine. Oh, I don't know if she meant the drank.

[C]

The drank. I'm assuming she meant the drink because she.

[B]

That was the one where she said, his throat, too.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So who.

[C]

Who knows?

[B]

Now, as for any marital troubles or affairs, she dismissed that as nothing more than gossip. She told the jury, I loved them. They loved me. They just died, same as other people. I'm not responsible for that. I could not help. If they wanted to die, I.

[C]

Why are we assuming they wanted to die now?

[B]

That's the thing. I was like, why? These were young. Like, they weren't old.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And like, they didn't die by, like, you know, like, that. Suicide was not considered.

[C]

I like that. She's like, I. It's not my fault that they. They, like, just chose not to get better.

[B]

Like, literally. That's exactly what she's saying.

[C]

Sorry you chose to get sick. Your fault. Weird.

[B]

Like, what, the weird choice. Yeah. She didn't give a fuck. Now, the press was actually impressed with her calm demeanor and her ability to maintain composure.

[C]

Is the press okay?

[B]

No. Never. But ultimately, the jury was less convinced. In the end, the evidence against Tilly was much too damning, and the prosecution was convincing. So on March 13, after just an hour of deliberation, the jury found Tilly guilty for the murder of Frank Kupchik. When the verdict was read, she didn't show any emotion at all. And she, quote, sat so still, she made her neighbors wriggle uncomfortably.

[C]

Ew.

[B]

I know. Fortunately for Tilly, the jury could not bring themselves to sentence a woman to death. So they recommended life in prison. On her way back to her cell after the trial, her only response to the crowd of reporters outside was to talk about how warm it was in the courthouse.

[C]

Damn.

[B]

Like, just warm in there.

[C]

That's cold blooded. Yeah.

[B]

Now, as she was led from the courtroom, she was also met with the cheers of her female supporters in the court, who shouted, never mind, Tilly. Don't forget there's a new motion for a new trial. For a week from Saturday. Cheer up.

[C]

Wow, babe.

[B]

They exhumed the three bodies of her three husbands that all contained so much arsenic, it could blow your fucking skirt up. Like, God damn.

[C]

Could blow your skirt into another galaxy.

[B]

Literally forgot the Milky Way, babe.

[C]

What the.

[B]

And you're like, don't worry, girl. Don't get down on yourself.

[C]

Cheer up.

[B]

All smiles, Tilly. It's all up from here. No, it's. It's down from here. She's going to jail.

[C]

Oh, Lord.

[B]

Now, Nelly's trial was repeatedly delayed for more than a year while she sat

[A]

in a jail cell.

[B]

But on November 8, 1923, a jury found her not guilty and she was free to go. Mind you, they exhumed her husband's body, and there was arsenic in it.

[C]

He had the arsenic. Yeah. I wonder if they thought that Tilly did it.

[B]

Maybe. Now, in the weeks and months after Tilly's trial, there was a lot of talk about the fact that several other Chicago women had been acquitted on murder charges. Until he was very quickly convicted. Some members of the press and public speculated that her conviction was due to her lacking physical attraction.

[C]

Whoa.

[B]

They said, I think you convicted her because she's ugly. I'm not saying she's ugly, but that's what they said.

[C]

That's what they said.

[B]

And they pointed to the repeated, unkind descriptions of her throughout the trial. Mostly male journalists pushed back on that complaint. One journalist wrote, there is no good reason to believe that they would have acquitted her had she been other than homely. The evidence showed that she was guilty of deliberately planning the death of at least one man and probably a dozen dozen more. I mean, valid calling someone homely is so.

[C]

Homely is diabolical.

[B]

It's. That's down dirty.

[C]

Yeah. It really is too much.

[B]

Now, when she settled into life in prison, she was kind of thriving in there.

[C]

Yeah. I think she was meant for that life.

[B]

She was, in fact, meant for that life. She was a model prisoner. She found work sewing American flags for other prison institutions.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

She had a bunch of homies in there.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Staff loved her. She didn't pose any problems at all. And then on November 20, 1936, she died of heart disease at Dwight Prison. And she was 64.

[C]

That's young.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Wow, Tilly.

[B]

Isn't that one of the wildest stories?

[C]

Tilly raged.

[B]

She may have been the high priestess of arsenic poisoning.

[C]

She raged through life.

[B]

Yeah. Forget dancing for your life. Yeah. She was not Tilly.

[C]

No.

[B]

She was never meant for that.

[C]

Never.

[B]

Wild and Joseph lived that's nice.

[C]

Oh, Joseph lived. I didn't think of that. Yeah. So he lived.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I mean, that's rough. Rough existence after that, but yeah, I

[B]

know what the long term effects of arsenic poisoning are.

[C]

Do you have a.

[B]

Do you have a fun fact?

[C]

That was a crazy story. It was. I do have a fun fact.

[B]

Don't forget a fun fact.

[C]

This is thanks to Mikey. Mikey gave me this fun fact.

[B]

Thank you, Michael.

[C]

Orcas are a natural predator of moose. How they can dive to eat seaweed. Moose can. Moose and orcas are documented natural predators of moose in coastal Alaska and Canada. They attack them when they swim between islands or along shorelines. Wow.

[B]

I don't know how fun that is, but it's mind blowing.

[C]

Personally love moose. So now I have street beef with orcas.

[B]

You actually can't really have street beef with them.

[C]

I have ocean beef with orcas.

[B]

You have aquatic beef?

[C]

Yeah, I have marine beef.

[B]

Oh, that's perfect. Marine beef.

[C]

I have marine beef.

[B]

Why does that sound disgusting? I was. I just picture soggy hamburgers.

[C]

Marine beef.

[B]

Not marine beef.

[C]

Yeah, I have marine beef with orcas now, so. But that's fine because I don't go in the ocean.

[B]

So we're gonna go unpack that.

[C]

But I'm really worried about moose, so that's. That's how I feel.

[B]

And what is the plural of moose? Mooses, mises.

[C]

Mooses. I think it's moose.

[B]

I don't like that. It doesn't feel correct.

[C]

Look at that group of moose over there.

[B]

Yeah, that sounds so right.

[C]

I don't know if I'm right.

[B]

I think you are, but I don't like it.

[C]

Moose. Moose. Hate it.

[B]

I have to unpack that now too. We have a lot to unpack.

[C]

It says, correct, I saw three moose. Incorrect, I saw three mooses. Or three mises.

[B]

Nah, mises is better.

[C]

Or three mises. Yeah. Mooses apparently did not evolve from Old English and that's why we didn't get a plural. So that's another fun fact.

[B]

I give you two for one. Look at you. You're so fun.

[C]

Look at that.

[B]

All right, well, we hope you keep listening.

[C]

We hope you keep it.

[B]

But not so weird that you spent several days thinking about the plural of

[C]

moose just being moose. It's moose.

[B]

Think about it. Maybe keep it that weird movie.

[D]

Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of angie. When you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well.

[A]

Roof repair.

[D]

Done well. Kitchen sink install. Done well. Deck upgrades. Done well. Electrical upgrade. Done well. Angie's been connecting homeowners with skilled pros for nearly 30 years, so we know the difference between done and done well. Angie the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find a pro for your [e-mail] this

[A]

is a Monday.com ad, the same Monday.com designed for every team. The same Monday.com with built in AI scaling your work from day one. The same Monday.com with an easy and intuitive setup. Go to Monday.com and try it for free.