
Apple has a lot to prove & Amateurism model is no more
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Neal Freyman
Brew Daily Show I'm Neal Freyman. And I'm Toby Howell Today, Can Apple get its mojo back? Don't ask Siri. She doesn't know anything.
Toby Howell
Then college athletes feel free to add guac to your Chipotle bowl because schools will soon be able to pay you directly. It's Monday, June 9th. Let's ride.
Neal Freyman
There are almost infinite reasons why you could be delayed at airport security, but it's time to add a new one to the list. The person in front of you is trying to check in using their Costco membership card. Last week, TSA had to issue a PSA on social media reminding travelers that Costco cards are not a substitute for the real IDs you now need to get on a flight. We love hot dogs and rotisserie chickens as much as the next person, TSA wrote. But please stop telling people their Costco card counts as a real id, because it absolutely does not. This fake travel hack pops up about every year or so and was most recently spread by the food site Chowhound, which published an article called how your Costco card could save you at the airport. Oh, it can save you lots, but not at the airport.
Toby Howell
Okay, I see the issue here. It's got your face on it. It's got a gold star on it. So if it walks like a real ID and it talks like a real id, is it not a real id? Still, I feel like I have a simple solution to this issue. Let Costco run airport security. Free samples in line, helpful workers, A$50 hot dogs. Once you make it through, who says no? Not me. I'm not saying no. And now a word from our new sponsor domain Money. Neil, what do you know about building wealth?
Neal Freyman
Just that you need a fresh supply of groundwater, a bucket, a rope.
Toby Howell
Wealth, Neil, not wells, Toby.
Neal Freyman
You have to enunciate. It's a podcast.
Toby Howell
Or maybe just listen a little more carefully.
Neal Freyman
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Toby Howell
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Neal Freyman
Check out domain money.com/MB Daily and start building your financial plan today. That's domain money.com/MB Daily.
Toby Howell
Quick disclaimer we are current clients of Domain Money Advisors llc. Through domain sponsorship of Morning Brew Daily, we receive compensation that included a free plan and thus have an incentive to promote Domain Money.
Neal Freyman
Later today, Apple will kick off its annual Developers conference, WWDC with an opportunity to announce impressive AI upgrades that will help narrow a widening gap with its competitors. But it's not going to do that. Apple is expected to steer clear of whiz bang AI features and focus instead on improvements to legacy operating systems, an embarrassing acknowledgment that when it comes to AI, the company is just not ready for the big leagues yet. It could be a bump in the road or signify something much worse. Worse, Apple missing out on a once in a generation technological revolution. In the past, Apple has used its developers conference to hype its biggest announcements and upgrades. In 2023 it revealed its virtual reality headset, the Vision Pro. Last year it debuted Apple Intelligence, a suite of AI features that were supposed to fend off upstarts like OpenAI and spur a new cycle of people trading in their older iPhones for a new one with AI capabilities. That push has so far been a failure. Most of the Apple Intelligence features added to iPhones have underwhelming at best, like notification summaries. And the AI showpiece, an upgraded series that would work just as well as voice assistants from chat, GPT and Google, is still nowhere to be seen. So Toby Tim Cook is in the hot seat. After promises made at last year's WWDC have yet to pan out, odds are Apple will strike a more cautious tone at the keynote this afternoon.
Toby Howell
Yeah, a lot of commentators and watchers of the industry say that we almost want to see an apology out of Apple because what they promised with Apple Intelligence last time around just didn't come to fruition at all. A lot of people are calling it pure vaporware, which is just tech that looks like it's something, but nothing is really there. And if you dig down to what you're actually dealing with. And so there is probably not going to happen. Like Apple's not going to come out and say, hey, we're so sorry for these missteps that occurred. They're probably just going to smile and project confidence like they always do. But yet certainly a moment in Apple's like WWDC history where it doesn't feel like they have the next big thing to announce. The next big thing to announce for them is just rebranding its iOS and rebranding how it's numbering some things so it's not a big paradigm shifting thing. So they're at this crossroads right now and how they project confidence going forward is going to be very interesting to watch because they don't exactly have an ace in the hole at this moment.
Neal Freyman
No, it was supposed to be Siri. This upgraded Siri that would work just as well as Chachi Beat, you know, for the in series history. For a time it was the only voice assistant around. So we thought, okay, Siri exists, it's not that good. But hey, that's what voice assistants are, they're just not that good. And then ChatGPT has come along with its chat feature, but also its voice assistant and every single other AI company, big tech company has rolled out something like this. Meanwhile, Siri has been just in the development room for so long. I know, you know, we're not expecting Apple to issue apology at this WWDC because that is not something that they would do. But Tim Cook has come out in the past few months saying that we are not releasing the new Siri because the tech did not meet our high quality bar and it was taking a bit longer than we thought. They had these ads that they had to pull from tv starring the last of us is Bella Ramsey, a huge embarrassment. So Apple really at a crossroads right now. It's very interesting to see that all these other tech companies have these big developers conference. We just came off Google's where they're announcing huge AI features that are truly wowing people and wowing developers and Apple just doesn't have that right now.
Toby Howell
It does seem like the biggest AI related announcement that we are going to get is that they're opening up their foundation models or large language models for the first time that power Apple intelligence that will let outside creators, app creators build AI features on that same tech that has, you know, powered the pretty scant writing tools. Genmoji custom emojis, it's summarization technology. So Apple is basically saying, I mean this is what developer conferences are like, hey, here's the sandbox Go play in it. Go create something new. And that is what has powered Apple for, you know, decades now. Let's see if it's even a sandbox, though, that developers want to play in, because Apple's frontier models are not necessarily, you know, the most sexy thing in the industry right now. So they do want to try to attract people and say, maybe you can build something better than what we've rolled out so far and hopefully get us back in this AI game that we're lagging behind in right now. JP Morgan is behaving a little bit like your jealous ex and that they really don't want you talking to anyone else other than them. The largest bank in the world recently told incoming grads that they'd be fired if they accepted a future job offer within their first 18 months at the bank. The rule comes as the bank is trying to crack down on associates jumping ship over to big bad private equity firms looking to plunder their junior talent. The bank didn't call out any industries by name, but the implication is that they want to crack down on companies on cycle recruitment periods where firms hand out offer letters two years in advance of expected start dates, poaching new hires after they've grabbed some investment banking experience. Wall street obviously doesn't like this. So JP Morgan warned analysts that they could be fired for skipping summer job training after some junior bankers have snuck out of onboarding sessions to interview for lucrative private equity roles. Neil JP Morgan CEO Jamie Dimon has publicly criticized the recruitment process, labeling it as unethical to work as an analyst for a bank while knowing you're heading to PE soon after. But this hard line stance puts the bank at odds with some of its most valuable clients as well.
Neal Freyman
Jamie Dimon just doesn't seem to care about that. For years he's been going after this style of recruiting, which people who are outside the industry must. It must seem a little wild, the fact that the people are getting offers two years ahead of time for while they're working at companies that they don't even work for. And Jamie Dimon last year he told a bunch of young undergraduates at Georgetown, I know a lot of you work at J.P. morgan. You take a job at a private equity shop before you even start with us. I think it's wrong to put you in that position. You have to kind of decide the next career move before you have a chance to even decide what the company is like. And particularly for JP Morgan or any bank that's hiring someone who already has an offer letter, it's kind of like you are a farm team for arrival. So maybe there's this hot new prospect, a soccer prospect, Toby Howell, and I'm Liverpool, and I basically have to train this guy up. And then two years later he's going to Manchester United. You can understand why Jamie Dimon says, I don't love this at all.
Toby Howell
Yeah. And part of the issue is that these, the Manchester United in this metaphor, are the P E buyout shops that can offer these newly minted bankers much bigger compensation packages than what they're getting. And even America's biggest banks can't compete with what these offer letters are. Associates at PE firms can make up to $300,000 a year with bonuses that you know are almost around the same exact thing. Compare that with what Glassdoor filings show for JP Morgan. Figures put first range associate banker salaries at around 200,000 to $289,000. Again, it's still a lot of money, but firms are coming in and dangling just a larger carrot for these young college grads. And you can't really fault them for saying, okay, this is my path. I do my time at an investment banking and then I go on to PE it's even happening at the very highest levels as well. Goldman Sachs just had to roll out the red carpet for their chief operating officer, John Waldron. They gave him an $80 million pay package this year because Apollo Mark Rowan's Apollo Global Management came in and tried to poach him as well. They are a big firm. So you're seeing it all the way from associates all the way up to the very top level brass as well.
Neal Freyman
And this is, you know, a free country, a free market that we have. So JP Morgan is going to have to change their tactics to retain these hot prospects. So what they've done in response to shops poaching their young bankers is they are, they are shortening the promotion cycle for a junior banker to be promoted to associate from three years to two and a half years. So they are taking steps. In addition to cracking down, they're doing the carrot and a stick. And in order to keep their junior bankers at JP Morgan and not going elsewhere. Okay, it's time to reveal our winners of the weekend. The segment where Toby and I picked two things whose Instagram stories made you so jealous. I won the pre show rock skipping contest, so I get to go first. And my winner is college athletes because you are about to get paid directly by schools for the very first time. On Friday, a judge approved a settlement that will allow universities to pay Athletes, which nukes once and for all the NCAA's long standing amateurism model and marks the biggest change for college sports in over 100 years. Under the new system, athletic departments will be able to hand out about $20.5 million a year in name, image and likeness revenue to athletes over the 2025, 2026 season. They'll also pay $2.8 billion in damages to former D1 athletes who weren't able to sign nil deals when they were in school going back to 2016. Now this has been a long time coming. Over the past two decades, college athletics has grown into a booming industry with billion dollar TV deals and coaches who are the highest paid public employees in their state. But the athletes who create the product said, hey, what about us? We're the only ones not getting rich here. And launched a swarm of lawsuits challenging the NCAA's cherished amateurism model. They've made some progress in recent years like when athletes were allowed to sign nil endorsement deals with third parties, but never, never before were they in line to receive a direct revenue share with colleges. Toby, this might be the end of the NCAA as we know it.
Toby Howell
Yeah, it totally changes things around. Scholarships are now being replaced by this salary cap model where you have a certain amount of money to dole out to players on your roster. The majority of this money is obviously going to go to those revenue generating sports like football, like men's basketball. So it's going to be interesting to see how the so called, maybe Olympic sports at college and universities get supported because you know, Olympic sports that don't generate revenue but do kind of power the pool of Team USA when it comes to the actual Olympics, are they going to have enough money left over when after all the money has been doled out to the other revenue generating sports? Also there's some Title 9 question marks. You know, Title 9 states that you have to provide equal opportunities to male and female athletes. How is this new salary cap going to fall under that legislation as well? And then there's also this third party clearing house thing where you're going to have to have these new rules have been designed to limit the free rein that boosters and collectives have had over the nil era so far. There has to be a valid business purpose to every nil deal that's handed out to an athlete now. So even though that this was a landmark settlement and now you, if you are a college athlete, you're in line to be paid, there are a lot of other question marks that have arisen as well.
Neal Freyman
And it seems like with every change that we've had over the past few years, with every settlement, the change to the college athletics landscape is that the biggest programs will get bigger and the mid majors in the smaller colleges will fall by the wayside. So that gap is only going to get bigger. And so it is with this particular settlement as well. Because if you have $20.5 million to adop out, that is a lot of money. It's not something that every college university can come up with. Can Ohio State and Alabama, probably because they are extremely rich and so they will have the resources to marshal $20.5 million to hand out and create these juggernaut rosters. Meanwhile, other colleges that aren't as rich will have to scramble to raise the money to match the 20.5 million that Alabama and Ohio State can marshal. They could also, you know, NIL is not going away, so there could be third parties that come in and say, hey, you're getting a lot of money from the school, but I'll throw sugar on top in order to get you to come. So the the gap between the have and the have nots will only increase from this.
Toby Howell
Now let's take a quick break before we get to my winner of the weekend. This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. I'm a person who really appreciates simplicity and when it comes to credit card rewards, the simpler the better. That's one of the many reasons I have an Apple card. The rewards are super straightforward. I earn up to 3% daily cash back on my everyday purchases. There are no points to calculate, no limits or deadlines. Plus it's super easy to access my card and make payments from the wallet app of my iPhone. If that sounds like the kind of simplicity you want in a credit card, apply for Apple Card in the Wallet app on your iPhone subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City brands terms and more@apple card.com the weather is warming up.
Neal Freyman
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Neal Freyman
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Toby Howell
My winner of the weekend is the iconic Goodyear blimp, which recently celebrated its 100th year anniversary of lazily patrolling the skies. The ubiquitous airships created by the tire company have been a feature at sporting events across the country for decades now. Their ability to provide aerial coverage of Pebble Beach's iconic fairways or so the sheer scale of a college football stadium make them invaluable parts of TV broadcasts. The blimps themselves haven't seen their technology change all that much over the decades. They are still huge, slightly longer than a Boeing 747 and still putter around at speeds rarely exceeding 70 miles per hour. The Akron based company originally produced more than 150 blimps for the US Navy, only later using one to cover sports starting at the 1955 Rose Bowl. In the decade since, their ability to fly and hover nearly a thousand feet off the ground while remaining quieter than a car have made them indispensable. Broadcasters are increasingly looping in more drones to their coverage. But drones can't fly as high or as long as good old blimps, so airships aren't going away anytime soon now. Pretty remarkable how a technology pioneered with the flight over Ohio back in 1925 is still flying around today. And still one of the best ways to document a spectacle from above.
Neal Freyman
It is their tie ins with TV networks have only increased and they do this very interesting transaction model with these TV networks where they go to ABC or CBS or any, or ESPN or any company that's putting on a sporting event and they say hey, we're not, we're not going to actually exchange any money. What I will give you a blimp and I will give you amazing overhead shots which are stunning. And in exchange you will mention Goodyear 10 seconds for every hour. And the way they do that calculation is say okay, well I could buy a 30 second ad spot over this three hour broadcast or I could get 10 seconds every hour for three hours and that's about the same. And I'll, and I'll send the Goodyear blimp there so it's a very interesting model that they've worked out ever since the 1955 Rose Bowl. So a very. Have you seen one of these in. In real life?
Toby Howell
Not in person. I'm.
Neal Freyman
They are majestic.
Toby Howell
Yeah.
Neal Freyman
They are just hovering over there. They take up so much of the sky. They're almost a football field long. They are massive. It is just a really cool sight to see in real life.
Toby Howell
Yeah. People love these blimps too. I mean, it has its own Instagram account with over 160,000 followers. There are more astronauts in the world than there are people to train to fly the Goodyear blimps. So it is this weirdly elite club of pilots who know how to pilot these things around. They are quick. That's the funniest part about all of these is 70 miles an hour sounds like a lot, but in airspeed terms, that is not fast. They usually don't fly more than 300 miles a day. So they do have to have this calculus in the back of their mind saying, where do we bring our blimps? Because they have some obligations. But other times they just go where the spectacle is. And so maybe it's a college game day, maybe it's a golf tournament or something like that. But it is funny that they just have to putter around. They have these crews that work two at a time. They always have to have someone on, on call in case a wind picks up because, like, there's not exactly a great autopilot system. So just a fascinating piece of technology, fascinating airship in general that has just remained popular for decades.
Neal Freyman
Yeah. And just a key part of American marketing history. The Goodyear blimp was the first to actually fly at night and project a neon sign. This is way back in 1930, so when you're in Times Square or anywhere with a lot of neon signs at night, you can thank Goodyear. Okay, it's Monday, so here is what you need to know about the week ahead. Tensions will remain high in downtown Los Angeles, where widespread anti deportation protests have been ongoing for three days. Things escalated yesterday when Trump made the highly unusual decision of deploying National Guard troops to the demonstrations. The first time since 1965 a president had activated a state's National Guard for a domestic operation without a governor's request, sparking pushback from state leaders. The protests, which at times involve setting self driving waymos on fire, do seem to be confined to the downtown area and the rest of the sprawling city was carrying on its business as usual. But a lot of eyes are on l A as the week begins and then on Wall street, all eyes are on Wednesday's monthly inflation report, which is important for a few reasons. It'll show whether prices have ticked up due to tariffs. And number two, it's the last big piece of economic data before the Fed makes its interest rate decision next week. The inflation report will be a big test for a stock market that is summer vibing. Right now. The major indexes have climbed back to their highest levels since February and The S&P 500 is hovering just 2% from its record high.
Toby Howell
Although I know this is the week ahead, let's flashback to Friday for a second where the jobs numbers came in showed a resilient but slowing jobs market. US added a 139,000 new jobs. Unemployment rate held steady about 4.2%. So the market did have this pretty strong end of the week because it was essentially happy that the jobs report didn't come in worse than it did. So as each piece of hard data comes in, including the inflation report, we'll get a better sense of where the economy stands and yet another test for a pretty high flying stock market.
Neal Freyman
And of course, we're also watching trade talks. US And China are meeting in London today to see if they can produce a breakthrough. The talks will focus not just on tariffs, but on those non tariff, non tariff barriers. Remember last week we were talking about how automakers were warning that China was withholding rare earths which could shutter auto production kind of all around the world if China doesn't grant those export licenses. So they're meeting in London today. That will also be the talk of Wall street to see what happens over there. In sports, the Pacers and Thunder head to Indianapolis for Game three of the NBA Finals on Wednesday. With a series tied one to one in the NHL, the Panthers and Oilers are also locked up at one game apiece ahead of Game three in Florida tonight. And in golf, the US Open begins on Thursday, which is one of the most anticipated in years. The world's best golfers will take on Oakmont Country Club outside of Pittsburgh, considered one of the most difficult courses in the world. Scottie Scheffler will be the overwhelming favorite.
Toby Howell
Again, I'm sorry for looking back even though this is week ahead, but we have to mention the French Open finals. So shout out Coco, shout out Carlos for putting on one heck of a show. We really went in men's tennis from the Big three straight to the Big two pretty seamlessly. That was one of the greatest sporting events I've ever witnessed. Also looking ahead. I do just want to get my U.S. open picks on the books now. Other than Sky Scheffler, other than Bryson who one of those two will probably win. I do like Shane Lowry, Ben Griffin or Harris Inglis as sneaky sleeper picks.
Neal Freyman
And but most of all the star of the show will be the chorus.
Toby Howell
Which is so hard.
Neal Freyman
So much hype for being so so so so hard. A new documentary on Netflix out Wednesday will offer a behind the scenes look at the Ocean Gate submersible disaster from 2023 when an experimental sub exploring the wreck of the Titanic exploded, killing all five people aboard. The doc will look at all the warning signs given to the company's CEO that this vehicle was just not safe for anyone.
Toby Howell
Yeah, some details have already emerged ahead of the documentary dropping, including the chief submersible pilot getting fired for trying to warn the company CEO about the potential dangers of doing this experimental carbon fiber hole. So definitely going to be a salacious documentary that a lot of people from yeah, the business world and everywhere else are will be tuning in.
Neal Freyman
And then finally at the tail end of the week, we've got a Friday the 13th coming up. Spooky the live action remake of how to Train youn Dragon coming to theaters and Father's Day on Sunday.
Toby Howell
How to Train youn Dragon. By the way, top five movie soundtrack of all time. And I will I say that with my full chest right there. Seriously, listen to this movie soundtrack because it is amazing. Hopefully they just bring that back to the live action remake and then everything else falls into place.
Neal Freyman
All right, that is all the time we have. Thanks so much for starting your morning with us. Have a wonderful start to the week. If you have any thoughts on today's episode, send an email with questions, comments or feedback to Morning Brew daily at Morning Broadcom. Let's roll the credits. Emily Milian is our executive producer. Raymond Lu is our producer. Our associate producers are Olivia Graham and Olivia Lake. Hair Makeup is taking some days off after working so many weddings this weekend. Devin Emery is our president and our show is a production of Morning Brew.
Toby Howell
Great show today Neil. So let's run it back tomorrow.
Title: Apple Tries to Impress at WWDC 2025 & College Athletes Get Paid
Host(s): Neal Freyman & Toby Howell
Release Date: June 9, 2025
The episode kicks off with a humorous yet pertinent discussion about a recent TSA Public Service Announcement. Neal highlights the recurring misconception among travelers that a Costco membership card can substitute for a real ID at airport security checkpoints.
Neal Freyman (00:56): "Please stop telling people their Costco card counts as a real ID, because it absolutely does not."
Toby humorously suggests an over-the-top solution, imagining Costco managing airport security with free samples and affordable hot dogs.
Toby Howell (01:42): "Let Costco run airport security. Free samples in line, helpful workers, A$50 hot dogs."
A significant portion of the episode delves into Apple’s anticipated performance at its annual Worldwide Developers Conference (WWDC) 2025. Neal expresses skepticism about Apple’s ability to deliver groundbreaking AI advancements, suggesting the company might focus on refining existing operating systems instead.
Neal Freyman (03:04): "Apple is expected to steer clear of whiz bang AI features and focus instead on improvements to legacy operating systems…when it comes to AI, the company is just not ready for the big leagues yet."
Toby concurs, asserting that Apple has yet to present a competitive AI solution comparable to rivals like OpenAI or Google.
Toby Howell (04:26): "A lot of people are calling it pure vaporware, which is just tech that looks like it's something, but nothing is really there."
The hosts discuss the delayed introduction of an upgraded Siri, emphasizing Apple’s struggle to meet its high standards and the potential implications for its market position.
Neal Freyman (05:23): "It was supposed to be Siri. This upgraded Siri that would work just as well as ChatGPT… still nowhere to be seen."
The conversation shifts to JP Morgan’s recent policy to deter young bankers from jumping ship to private equity firms. Neal outlines the bank’s stringent measures, including the threat of termination for those accepting outside job offers within their first 18 months.
Neal Freyman (08:36): "Jamie Dimon just doesn't seem to care about that…it must seem a little wild… 'you are a farm team for arrival.'"
Toby elaborates on the competitive nature of compensation packages in private equity versus traditional banking roles, highlighting the challenges JP Morgan faces in retaining top talent.
Toby Howell (09:35): "Associates at PE firms can make up to $300,000 a year with bonuses… compared to JP Morgan's $200,000 to $289,000."
Neal notes JP Morgan’s dual approach of both cracking down and enhancing promotion cycles to retain employees.
Neal Freyman (10:47): "They are shortening the promotion cycle for a junior banker to be promoted to associate from three years to two and a half years."
Neal and Toby celebrate a historic settlement allowing universities to compensate college athletes directly, effectively dismantling the NCAA’s long-standing amateurism model.
Neal Freyman (11:53): "This is the biggest change for college sports in over 100 years… a judge approved a settlement that will allow universities to pay athletes."
Toby discusses the implications of the new salary cap model, expressing concerns about its impact on non-revenue-generating sports and Title IX compliance.
Toby Howell (12:43): "Olympic sports that don't generate revenue… have to face funding challenges due to the new salary cap."
Neal adds that while top-tier programs like Ohio State and Alabama may benefit, smaller colleges might struggle to compete, potentially widening the gap between elite and mid-tier institutions.
Neal Freyman (14:04): "The gap between the have and the have nots will only increase."
Shifting to lighter fare, the hosts spotlight the 100th anniversary of the iconic Goodyear Blimp. They reflect on its enduring presence at sporting events and its unique role in aerial broadcasting.
Toby Howell (16:52): "The blimps themselves haven't seen their technology change all that much… still putter around at speeds rarely exceeding 70 miles per hour."
Neal praises the blimp’s strategic partnership model with TV networks, providing invaluable aerial footage in exchange for branding exposure.
Neal Freyman (18:10): "They go to ABC or CBS… provide overhead shots… in exchange for mentioning Goodyear for 10 seconds every hour."
In the final segment, Neal and Toby outline the key events and trends to watch in the coming week:
Los Angeles Protests: Ongoing anti-deportation demonstrations have escalated, prompting unprecedented federal intervention.
Neal Freyman (20:09): "Trump deployed National Guard troops to the demonstrations… first time since 1965 a president had activated a state's National Guard for a domestic operation without a governor's request."
Economic Reports: The imminent inflation report is crucial for gauging the impact of tariffs and setting the stage for the Federal Reserve’s interest rate decision.
Toby Howell (21:36): "The inflation report will be a big test for a stock market that is summer vibing."
US-China Trade Talks: Negotiations in London aim to address both tariff and non-tariff barriers, including concerns over rare earth exports affecting global auto production.
Neal Freyman (22:08): "Automakers were warning that China was withholding rare earths…"
Sports:
Toby Howell (22:08): "Scottie Scheffler will be the overwhelming favorite."
Entertainment: A new Netflix documentary on the Ocean Gate submersible disaster is set to release, promising an in-depth look at the 2023 tragedy.
Neal Freyman (23:40): "A behind the scenes look at the Ocean Gate submersible disaster…"
Upcoming Movies: Highlights include a live-action remake of "How to Train Your Dragon" and other anticipated releases.
Toby Howell (24:35): "How to Train Your Dragon... top five movie soundtracks of all time."
Neal and Toby wrap up the episode by encouraging listeners to engage with the show and stay informed about the dynamic interplay between technology, sports, economics, and culture.
Neal Freyman (25:07): "Thanks so much for starting your morning with us. Have a wonderful start to the week."
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