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Neal Freyman
Stocks, ETFs, or what about mutual funds? Choosing your investments is easier with Fidelity. Our step by step experience can help you pick out the right investments for you. Plus, with recurring investments, you can decide how much and how often to invest. Lastly, there's 247 help if and when you need it. To find your next investment, head to fidelity.com trading. Investing involves risk, including risk of loss. Fidelity Brokerage Services, LLC Member NYSC SIPC Good morning Brew Daily Show I'm Neal Freyman.
Toby Howell
And I'm Toby Howell.
Neal Freyman
Today, Michael Dell's record breaking donation to America's Kids.
Toby Howell
Then Costco is suing the Trump administration because it wants its tariff money back. It's Wednesday, December 3rd. Let's ride.
Neal Freyman
The era of the Sloppol may have run its course. A bad year for bull slingers. Chipotle, sweetgreen and Kava has gotten even worse this fall with the three companies cutting financial targets and losing $48 billion in market value combined, a drop of roughly 50%. Even sloppable pioneers are seeking something more substantial. Steve Ells, the founder of Chipotle has a new restaurant concept that literally has a sign of a lunch bowl with a slash running through it indicating that textureless slop is not allowed on the premises. So Toby, if yuppies are shifting away from the sad death salad, what are they eating for lunch?
Toby Howell
Are you ready for this? Neil? Sandwiches. According to this Bloomberg article, things with textures and various mouthfeel are in like sandwiches and tacos. And it shows up in the data to Shake Shack serves burgers and chicken sandwiches. Sales growth was up 5% last quarter. Potbelly Delicious sandwich chain grew sales by nearly 7% in September. It got me thinking if I just invested in every place I ate lunch every day or would I be up or down? And Neil, the Toby's lunch index is hurting right now because unfortunately I do love sloppables. Maybe I need to up my sandwich game though because right now too much P slop.
Neal Freyman
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Toby Howell
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Neal Freyman
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Neal Freyman
All the kids listening to this, I need you to pause Minecraft and lock in Michael Dell is giving you collectively over $6 billion in one of the biggest single charitable donations in American history. Dell, the billionaire CEO and co founder of the computer company, announced that he and his wife Susan, will pledge $6.25 billion to 25 million American children age 10 and under, amounting to $250 per child. The unprecedented gift is modeled on and expands upon the so called Trump accounts that were by the one Big Beautiful bill earlier this year. Under that measure, the treasury will deposit $1,000 into tax advantaged investment accounts for children born between January 1, 2025 through the end of 2028. The Dells are aiming to reach kids born before that cutoff, handing out $250 to children up to age 10 in zip codes with a median income of $150,000 or less. The donation is not only unusual for its size, over $6 billion in one fell swoop, but for its structure. The Dells are writing people, which contrasts with the typical model of giving money to an institution like a university or a nonprofit. Dell thinks his system is better telling the New York Times there's been lots of studies that show that even relatively modest sums with accounts like this, children are more likely to graduate from high school and college. They're more likely to buy a home to start a business. He's hoping to inspire others to copy his direct giving strategy.
Toby Howell
Let's dive into the idea behind a account like a Trump account. When the children in a wealthy household leave the nest, they usually have a little nest egg provided by their parents. But what if all children could get the same financial boost? That is the idea behind funding a Trump account. If you give $1,000 to every newborn, so long as your parents open the account by the time they reach 18, if you max out your contribution limits, they could have the same sort of advantage that, you know, a wealthier family have. So that's the general idea behind the program. In general, the Dell component is fascinating as well. One because you are right, it is just another instance of a private donation kind of skirting by congressional deadlocks and just directly injecting money into a program that is supported by the current administration. And then it's also very symbolic for Michael Dell himself. He said that he started Dell Computers in his dorm room in college with a initial investment of just $1,000. Adjusted for inflation, it's actually closer to 30 $500 today. But he kind of made a big spiel about how if every child had that same advantage, what could they create? So that is why there is some symbolism behind this specific donation.
Neal Freyman
And Trump actually credits Dell with bringing the idea of the Trump accounts to him. Back in 2021, Dell was at this meeting with the hedge fund manager Brad Gerstner, who founded this nonprofit called Invest America, which advocated for these accounts, these investment accounts for America's youth. And then Dell heard that idea and had a pipel to the President, so brought that idea to him. So Trump says Dell was the reason that I created Trump accounts in the first place. So this didn't really come out of nowhere. Dell had been a supporter of this concept of, of investment accounts for kids for a long time. And then he's putting his money where his mouth is with this huge donation.
Toby Howell
What can you do to actually take the money out of the account? What can you use it for? You have penalty fee withdrawals before your age, 60, actually 59 and a half, if you want to use it for higher education, if you want to use it for buying a home. But there's not broad discretionary use. So that is why Some, you know, HR professionals are comparing and contrasting a Trump account versus something like a 529 plan. They are saying that this has a little bit of a narrower use case. So there is going to be some shakeout. Now. Are employers going to start contributing and matching funds to accounts like this, or is it going to not necessarily become a staple of what parents are contributing towards? So it is just an interesting new tax free vehicle for people to grow their money in. And so how it shakes out in terms of where people are allocating their money, that remains to be seen.
Neal Freyman
And we'll see how it, how it shakes up the unequal playing field of people investing in the stock market. So 58% of U.S. households held stocks or bonds back in 2022. That's the most recent data we have available. But when you dive a little deeper, the wealthiest 1% own almost half the value of stocks in that year. The bottom 50% own about 1% of stocks. It's unclear whether the Trump accounts, or now we can call them the Dell accounts, are going to move the needle in that regard, but seems like most Americans are invested in the stock market. But the top 10% hold the vast majority of all the value of the stocks. The bottom 50% hold a very narrow slice. And we'll see how this work.
Toby Howell
So close the gap.
Neal Freyman
Yeah. And we'll see whether Dell and Trump's accounts can close the gap.
Toby Howell
You can find pretty much anything at Costco these days, including a lawsuit against Trump's tariffs. Costco has filed a lawsuit seeking to recover tariffs it has already paid on goods it's imported. Should the Supreme Court ultimately decide the tariffs are illegal? Remember, the case before the court right now revolves around whether President Trump has the power to impose tariffs under a specific emergency powers law. But as the court deliberates before issuing a ruling in the spring, businesses aren't just sitting idly by. If the justices do find Trump lacks the authority to impose the tariffs, the question then turns to refunds, namely, who gets them and how much. Customs only finalizes the total amount of tariffs A company owes 314 days after the goods entered the country. But once those tariffs are finalized in a process referred to as liquidation, it becomes a lot tougher to get your money back. So Costco is getting its rotisserie chickens in a row and filing this lawsuit to preserve their place in line for a potential refund. Neil Other retailers have been quietly doing this in the background, including the cosmetics group Revlon and motorcycle maker Kawasaki. But Costco is Costco. It's the biggest company yet to cook up a lawsuit like this, and the first company who sells A$50 hot dogs to file a lawsuit like this.
Neal Freyman
Let's go back to the oral arguments of this case at the Supreme Court. The justice, the justices broadly, both conservative and liberal, we're very skeptical that Trump has the power to levy these tariffs, which amount to almost $90 billion. They've collected almost $90 billion in tariff revenues through this particular Emergency Powers act that is in question at the Supreme Court. So they were skeptical of this and it seemed poised to perhaps strike it down. The problem is they even acknowledge that it would be so chaotic to get these refunds back to the companies that paid the tariffs. Justice Amy Coney Barrett even called it, quote, a mess. And so all of these companies are looking at the Supreme Court case saying, okay, well, it looks like maybe they'll rule against the tariffs. But I have no idea whether I'm going to get these refunds because I'm seeing these justices say they don't want to shake up the system. The Trump administration has also said that the economy would collapse should they need to refund tens of billions of dollars to these companies. So Costco is, like said, trying to reserve its place at the front of the line to ensure that it gets these refunds. They didn't say how much they've paid in tariffs in any of these court filings, but it should. You know, based on other companies that have expressed how much they have paid in tariffs, it could be hundreds of millions of dollars, even into the billions.
Toby Howell
And Costco is uniquely exposed to tariffs because this is kind of a move that you wouldn't necessarily expect them to make because it ruffles the feathers in the administration, and big box retailers do not want to do that. But one third of its US Sales come from imported goods. Nearly half of those imports come from China, Mexico, and Canada. And given the fact that Costco's margins are so slim, I mean, it's the reason we all love Costco. It's because they only mark products up, usually around 13%. So they're playing with a lot less margin than maybe another retailer would. So they're saying we have to do something about these tariffs. If the chance comes to, you know, get our money back, we want to jump on that. But it really all comes down to this idea of liquidation. When those tariffs become final, it becomes a lot harder to claw that money back. And so Costco wants the CPB to halt liquidation of finalizing our tariff bills until this whole thing can shake out, as well as, hopefully, the Supreme Court ruling the tariffs are illegal. That's what this whole thing hinges on. They do need the court to rule in their favor.
Neal Freyman
Are you hesitant to use AI at work? Maybe a big fat bonus will help.
Toby Howell
Help.
Neal Freyman
Companies large and small have rolled out juicy perks, including cash bonuses, merch, and redeemable points to incentivize employees to use artificial intelligence in their workflows, Bloomberg reports. For instance, the UK Based law firm Shoesmith. Side note, if I should. If I just said Shoesmiths, you could probably figure out what it is. Has created a $1.3 million bonus pool contingent on 1 million uses of Microsoft Copilot this fiscal year. The company estimates that if each employee fired up Copilot four times a day on average, then they'd hit the goal and initiating a $1,000 payout to each worker. The fintech giant Brex is also handing out cash in the form of spot bonuses to employees who develop innovative AI projects ranging from $150 to thousands of dollars. Companies across Industries have been investing in generative AI these past few years, betting that increased automation will boost worker productivity and boost their bottom lines. But an enterprise co pilot or anthropic subscription doesn't come cheap and they're feeling some heat to show a return on their AI investments. And while some employees are embr technology, many others aren't. Whether they fear it could eventually take their jobs or they just don't see the use of it. So they're dangling a bunch of carrots to get these reluctant workers to come around.
Toby Howell
So you're a company, you just spend a ton of money on, you know, enterprise AI bringing it into. You're going to revolutionize your company that everyone is supposed to be doing right now. Then all your employees go, I don't really know about this. Whether it's because of what you mentioned, hey, I don't want to get good at this thing that could potentially take my job, or there's another aspect to this. If you find a great way to use AI, you kind of hoard that technique. If you found something that just magically makes your job better, you don't necessarily want to go to your boss and say, hey, I'm only working a fifth. As much as, you know, Jerry over there, it just doesn't necessarily. The incentives don't align there. So companies are saying, how do we dangle these carrots? We don't necessarily want to use a stick, we want to dangle carrots in front of people. How do we accelerate this adoption curve? Hence all these very, you know, creative solutions. The other solution that another Bloomberg article highlighted was the fact that it's much easier to get people to listen to their coworkers rather than any top down training. So they're trying to incentivize these employee training programs where if Neil finds a way that he's been using AI to dramatically increase his productivity, have Neil teach the rest of people. Because people are more open to listening to Neil at Echo, at our company versus, you know, a boss man. So it's just interesting to find that you've invested all this money, but how do you get over that final mile mile of actually getting people to adopt this technology?
Neal Freyman
Yeah, big companies like Morgan Stanley, ServiceNow, HubSpot, Yelp, they are all cultivating AI influencers to tell their peers how they're using AI and also offering incentives in that regard. So you see companies trying to dangle these carrots instead of sticks because there are sticks out there. Just look at Shopify. Earlier this year, Shopify CEO Toby Lucky wrote This memo that was circulated all around Silicon Valley and he said, using AI effectively is now a fundamental expectation of everyone at Shopify. I don't think it's feasible to opt out of learning the skill. You're welcome to try, but I cannot see this working out today and definitely not tomorrow. There's all these AI trainings that maybe you, your employer, have gone through and just to. It's been torture. Moderna, PwC S&P Global Dell. These are huge companies that have rolled out AI trainings from the top down. You see a different tack from these other companies saying, well, maybe actually, if, you know, Neil, I learned from Toby about how he's using AI and it's making his life easier because you are an AI influencer here at Morning Brew, then, then maybe I will. Maybe I will be more amenable to use AI at work.
Toby Howell
I just called you the influencer. Are we influencing each other?
Neal Freyman
I think so.
Toby Howell
Someone has to be.
Neal Freyman
You've influenced me when it comes to AI for sure.
Toby Howell
It definitely comes down to just behavior, economics in general. This happens in other aspects of an employer's, you know, incentivize program, wellness programs. You pay workers to walk to be a little healthier. There's, you know, credit card reward ecosystems where you pay consumers to keep using it in a certain retailer. So this is not necessarily a new concept whatsoever. How can you just apply it to this new technology of AI all right, we're going to take a quick break and start wrapping up the year. Neil, are you hitting your protein goals?
Neal Freyman
Check out these guns. Do they not answer your question?
Toby Howell
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Neal Freyman
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Toby Howell
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Neal Freyman
Yes, as it Turns out you cannot build an indoor pool in a one bedroom Brooklyn apartment.
Toby Howell
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Neal Freyman
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Toby Howell
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Neal Freyman
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Toby Howell
Cost as we come Zooming up on the End of the Year how the heck is it already December already? Everyone and their mother is getting their end of year list together, starting with Wikipedia. Every year the Internet's encyclopedia puts out a list of its most viewed articles. In the past, it's been things like the COVID 19 pandemic or ChatGPT. But for 2025, the Wikipedia page for Charlie Kirk was the most read article on its site. Over 45 million people read the page after a surge of traffic following his assassination on September 10th. Interestingly enough, 40% of those views came from users outside the US according to the Wikimedia Foundation. Joining Kirk in the top 10 were Donald Trump and Zoran Mamdani, racking up 25 and 20 million views, respectively. Pope Leo also features on the list, as does Ed Gein, a serial killer active in the 1950s who drew more views than Trump and Mamdani. How is that possible? Gein was featured in a Netflix series this year called Monsters. Neal, any surprises on 2025 edition?
Neal Freyman
Not a ton of surprises. I mean, you skipped over number two, which is deaths in 2025, and this deaths in is pretty much the most reliable Wikipedia page to exist. It has never since they started doing these articles, these roundup of the top top viewed articles a couple of decades ago. There has never been a time where deaths in X year has been below number three because this is constantly updated. People are dying all over the world. Notable people are dying all over the world every day. So this page is being updated. So you constantly go I mean I haven't been to this page, but some people who are very interested in this kind of thing do go to that page every single day. So it racks up a ton of views. Let's talk about the pop cult culture entrance here we had Severance coming in as the top TV series and number 12 sinners at number eight, which was a movie, Weapons, another movie, Thunderbolts Superman Adolescence, which is another Netflix series. And when I'm thinking about the particular types of movies and TV shows that people are going to Wikipedia for, Wikipedia calls it the second screen effect. So you're watching something and you're like, what the heck is going on? I think I need a plot summary. I think that is certain. And then you open up Wikipedia while you're watching that particular show. And I think that's certainly the case with Severance, which you do need perhaps some summaries to tell you what the heck is going on. I think that's why that may that particular show may punch above its weight, because not that many people have Apple TV or are watching Severance. It's a relatively small show in the grand scheme of things, but in terms of complexity and figuring out what's going on certainly lends itself to a very highly viewed Wikipedia article.
Toby Howell
We were saying where the heck is K Popped? Demon Hunter, which was, you know, the most it was the biggest story, biggest entertainment product of the year, but not that hard to understand necessarily. So you don't necessarily have to go to Wikipedia like that. So yeah, Severance absolutely punching above its weight. Just in some other people news, elon Musk jumped five spots to number six. Mr. Beast entered the list for the first time ever at number 18, hopefully because parents are Googling what the heck is my kid watching? And then Taylor Swift actually dropped out of the top 20, which is interesting because she got engaged, she released another album, but maybe it was just a little too late in the year too, for her to rack up the Wikipedia views. Morning Brew Daily did not make the list again, which Come on people, we're on the cusp. We're on the cusp. Joining everyone in the rapt game was YouTube, who introduced a version of Spotify Wrapped for the videos you watch, and a new exchange experience that lets you dive into your viewing habits. Over the last year, you'll get to tap through 12 cards that highlighted the top channels you liked, what your interests were, and how your taste in videos has changed over time, according to the Verge recap, launched yesterday for US users, and you can find it on mobile and desktop by heading to the dedicated button on the YouTube page. Notably for any YouTube music users out there, this is different. You'll still get a separate recap experience for your listening habits. And yes, this is definitely a knockoff of Spotify Wrapped, but I don't care because I have to see how many Golf Swing Tip videos and Catan highlights I watch over the past year.
Neal Freyman
Okay, so tell us your recap. Because I went to my recap this morning. It does. It's not there yet. So people are going to their YouTube and they don't see it. I am with you. So I don't know what kind of videos I watched this year. I assume most were recipes. But Toby, what. What was your top top viewed videos?
Toby Howell
Yeah, so I did look through my top viewed videos and I wrote this before I actually saw my recap. It quite literally, number one, it was golf swing videos. Number two was weirdly basketball strategy videos, which I can't even remember. First of all, I've never heard it framed as basketball strategy, but that's how YouTube framed it. And the number three was in fact, catan tips and catan viewing. My top channel was a Catan YouTuber who goes by the name of Dandy Drew. So I kind of had a good sense because unlike music where things are just kind of shuffling in, you're usually being pretty intentional about what you choose to watch on YouTube. So I don't think this recap is going to be as widely shared as Spotify, because Spotify, you just listen to so many songs, you know what you're watching on YouTube. I can remember most of the videos I watch, so maybe it's not going to be quite as viral. But it was interesting to peek into the mind of myself and realize, yeah, I do know myself pretty dang well. Also, for any Apple music lovers out there, your replay is now available. Apple got ahead of Spotify wrap this year to launch its yearly recap. On a macro front, Apple announced the top song of 2025 was Rose and Bruno Mars is or apt. Kendrick Lamar and SZA falled in second place with Luther, Lady Gaga and Bruno Mars rounded up the top three with Die with a Smile. If you're looking for the first song with only one artist to make the list, that would be Kendrick Lamar's Not Like Us, followed by Billie Eilish in fifth place with Birds of a Feather. Neil, any of those make your listening list?
Neal Freyman
Well, if you're looking for any song that was released in 2025 in the top five, you won't find it. All of the top Apple music songs from 2025 were actually released in 2024, which kind of tells you a lot about the year in music we had. We did have a lot of good music getting killed. GEESE SHOUT OUT but that is not going to make the top list here. And it was just kind of striking that all of the top Music of this year was actually released last year.
Toby Howell
The top artists. I don't know if you've ever heard of this guy on Apple Music was. It was Drake actually. Can you believe that? What an upset.
Neal Freyman
All right, so we're looking at. So we got Apple Music, YouTube, and they're trying to front run Spotify wrapped, which should come out any day, perhaps today, perhaps tomorrow. So keep your eye out for that. Okay, let's sprint to the finish with some final headlines. Although it's a tech town now, San Francisco isn't giving up on its crunchy granola soul. The city sued 10 food giants, including Coca Cola, Kraft, Heinz, Nestle, Kellogg, and Oreo maker Mondelez over their ultra processed products. The first government lawsuit of its kind anywhere around the country. San Francisco is accusing these manufacturers of saddling local governments with the cost of treating people whose health was harmed from consuming ultra processed food, food that now comprises about 70% of the country's total supply. It's unclear whether SF will prevail, but it has had lots of success taking on companies in the past in the name of public health. Through lawsuits, the city has secured $539 million from tobacco companies, 21 million from lead paint manufacturers, and hundreds of millions more in opioid settlements.
Toby Howell
This is a rare moment where there is political crossover on this particular issues. There is a broad bipartisan shift towards trying to attack ultra processed food companies. California passed a bill defining ultra processed foods, which was important, kind of laying the groundwork for maybe an eventual school ban. States like California, Arizona, West Virginia have banned certain dyes and additives in schools. You know, this dates all the way back to Michael Bloomberg trying to ban oversized sodas in New York City. So it's kind of been no matter what your political affiliation is, no matter which side of the aisle you fall on, all of a sudden people are rallying around this idea that these are very harmful substances on par with something like the tobacco industry. We should be cracking down on it, especially when it comes to, you know, kids in children in schools that are eating this. Finally, the TV show Mad Men just got rereleased on HBO Max in a higher 4K resolution, which has led to some interesting mistakes being observed in ultra high def. First off, multiple episodes were released out of order. If you sat down to watch the sixth episode of the show, you'd be missing a few key plot points, since the seventh episode actually airs under the label of the sixth. In total, the Guardian found three mislabeled episodes in the first season alone. But that has Nothing on the production staff views that viewers notice. And 1 scene 2 crew members are fully visible crouching nearby and operating a fake vomit machine during a part where the character played by John Slattery throws up after a boozy oyster filled lunch. Neil, how does something like this even happen?
Neal Freyman
I don't know. First of all, I didn't know there was such a thing as a barf machine in movies and TV shows. I thought they just kind of took some gross stuff in their mouth and spit it out. But you can see this guy with a little machine and a tube standing in the background. It's great. You have to look this up and, you know, just kind of having barf come out of his mouth from the side where you can't see in the camera. They got that all out in post production. But when Mad Men sent the tapes to hbo, something got. Some wires got crossed there and there was all these sort of production snafus that happened. And it's all also adding insult to injury for HBO because Matthew Weiner, the creator of Mad Men, was developing Mad Men with alongside David Chase of the Sopranos for hbo. And HBO actually passed on the series. It was picked up by AMC and turned into the one most successful popular TV series of all time and one of my favorites. And now it's coming to HBO and it's got all these mess ups again.
Toby Howell
A lot of people also were quick to point out this is not the first time HBO has dealt with some post production errors. The famous one is the fact that a coffee cup made it into the final season of Game of Thrones. So that one goes down in history. Fans were saying that it has something to do with the aspect ratio switching. When it comes to a 4K, you know, retread, you have certain tweaks in the aspect ratio. And then clearly when you expanded the frame here, you can see, you know, Jerry and Doug back there doing the barf machine. So probably just something that slipped through the cracks. But it is very funny. Please go to social media and just type in Mad Men because you'll see these guys doing a great job operating that barf machine. That barf is coming out so good on them.
Neal Freyman
Hbo, if you need anybody to watch your TV series before they actually hit your streaming service, Toby and I will volunteer. That is all the time we have. Thanks for starting your morning with us and have a wonderful Wednesday. If you want to get in touch with us, send a note to Morning Brew Daily at Morning Bukom or DM us on Instagram at Embi Daily Show. Let's roll the credits. Emily Milian is our executive producer. Raymond Lu is our producer. Our associate producers are Olivia Graham and Olivia Lake. Hair makeup is staying home because of how embarrassing their Spotify raps is going to be. Devin Emery is our president and our show is a production of Morning Brew.
Toby Howell
Great show, Danielle. Let's run it back tomorrow. Neil, do you know David?
Neal Freyman
Yeah, lots. The one who does nature doc, voiceovers, the magician king, etc.
Toby Howell
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Neal Freyman
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Toby Howell
To celebrate them restocking on their website, they're offering our listeners a special deal. Buy four cartons and get the fifth free when you use davidprotein.com mbd that's davidprotein.com mbd.
Hosts: Neal Freyman & Toby Howell
In this episode, Neal and Toby break down some of the biggest business stories of the day, including Michael Dell’s historic $6.25 billion donation targeting America’s children, Costco’s high-stakes lawsuit against Trump’s tariffs, inventive company bonuses to spur AI adoption, and quirky end-of-year digital trends. Their trademark wit and insight make sense of these headline stories while spotlighting their wider social and economic implications.
Toby’s Top Videos:
| Segment | Timestamp | |-------------------------------------|------------| | Slop Bowl Downturn | 00:52 | | Dell’s $6.25 Billion Donation | 02:57 | | Symbolism & Trump Account Origins | 04:23–05:35| | Wealth Distribution Context | 07:04 | | Costco Sues Over Tariffs | 07:51 | | “Tariff Mess” at Supreme Court | 09:06 | | Company AI Incentives | 11:25 | | The Carrots vs. Sticks Debate | 12:42–15:14| | Wikipedia’s Most Viewed | 17:23 | | YouTube & Apple Music Recaps | 21:27–23:46| | San Francisco vs. Ultra-Processed | 24:43 | | HBO’s “Mad Men” 4K Errors | 26:18 |
The episode maintains a clever, conversational energy, punctuated by cultural references, running jokes, and the candid banter Neal and Toby are known for. They ground complex topics in accessible analogies and tongue-in-cheek asides, while pulling no punches on the big stories shaping business, tech, and society.
This episode is packed with deep dives: a seismic shift in billionaire giving, a legal battle that could shake international trade, how companies are desperately trying to make AI stick, digital trends that define how we consume information, and the pitfalls of messing with TV classics. Both newcomers and longtime listeners will find food for thought—and plenty of ways to sound informed at the water cooler.