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How ‘SNL’ Adapted to Changing Media After 50 Years
00:29:04
The secret to SNL’s staying power
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- [00:02]
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- [00:31]
Neal Freyman
Good Morning Brew Daily Show. I'm Neal Freyman.
- [00:34]
Toby Howell
And I'm Toby Howell.
- [00:35]
Neal Freyman
Today, Saturday Night live is celebrating 50 years on television, a deep dive into.
- [00:41]
Toby Howell
The past, present and uncertain future of the comedy juggernaut. Tape From New York, it's Morning Brew Daily.
- [00:53]
Neal Freyman
Happy President's Day. Merry President's Day. Anyway, last night, Sunday, some of you may have watched the 50th anniversary celebration of Saturday Night Live, and the sheer star power of the event made you forget it was on a Sunday. Alumni like Tina Fey, Eddie Murphy, OG cast member Chevy Chase were all there, along with frequent hosts Dave Chappelle and Steve Martin, and powerhouse musical guests like Paul McCartney, Miley Cyrus, and Sabrina Carpenter. It was a show of force that reminded you just how influential the show was and in shaping American culture.
- [01:26]
Toby Howell
But has it maintained that grip today in 2025? In today's special holiday episode, we are going to piggyback on SNL's 50th birthday bash to dive deep into this cultural phenomenon, exploring the leadership mind of its ringleader Lorne Michaels, its history as a movie star factory, and whether it's been overshadowed in today's frenzied media landscape. It's a ton of fun and we hope you learned something and maybe reminisce about some of the funniest scenes, sketches and characters. But first, a word from our sponsor, LinkedIn Ads. Neil, were you scared of the dark as a kid?
- [02:00]
Neal Freyman
I wasn't scared per se, but I certainly pulled the sprint back inside. After putting the trash by the driveway more than a few times, I was terrified.
- [02:07]
Toby Howell
Because who likes being in the dark? Same should go for your advertising.
- [02:11]
Neal Freyman
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- [02:20]
Toby Howell
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- [02:25]
Neal Freyman
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- [02:28]
Toby Howell
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- [02:34]
Neal Freyman
The best part is LinkedIn will give you a $100 credit on your next campaign, so you can try it yourself. Just go to LinkedIn.com mbd that's LinkedIn.com/mbd. Terms and conditions apply only on LinkedIn ads.
- [02:49]
Toby Howell
Saturday night Live aged gracefully into middle age over the weekend, hosting a 50th anniversary celebration so big it ditched Saturday altogether and moved it to Sunday. It spanned over three hours and brought back everyone from iconic alums like Tina Fey and Will Ferrell to OG cast members Chevy Chase and Jane Curtin. It was a parade of comedy and musical royalty, one that captured the show's enduring popularity half a century after it first launched. Despite cries that SNL has fallen off or lost its cultural relevance, the show still moves the needle. It's part of the movie star promotional circuit, as proven by Timothee Chalamet's recent stint as host and musical guest to promote his Bob Dylan biopic. It still draws millions of views a week. Last season, the average episode received 7.2 million views, and most sketches rack up millions more on YouTube and Tik Tok. Its sketches have turned into enduring cultural touchstones. You probably still say bye bye getting off a plane. Consider living in a van down by the river or ask for more cowbell. But Neal, despite that lengthy track record, you'll inevitably hear a chorus of SNL is dying. SNL isn't funny. And more whenever you bring it up amongst friends, whatever your thoughts on it, 50 years is 50 years this show has stuck around.
- [04:03]
Neal Freyman
It has remarkable staying power. 50 years for a comedy show on network television. Incredible feat. It's older than the Simpsons, older than Family Feud, older than C. Sunday Morning blows Law and Order out of the water. SNL has won more Emmy awards than any TV show in history, with 90. What's second place? Game of Thrones with 49. Creator and executive producer Lorne Michaels, who we will chat about a little later, has 102 Emmy nominations, the most ever for an individual, and 21 wins. So while there are certain questions about how SNL is adapting to the changing media landscape, it's worth remarking on the run that it's had for 50 years.
- [04:46]
Toby Howell
And I do just want to visit some of those conversations about SNL is dying because we've all said it at one point. Like I remember when SNL was so much funnier back in this day. Lorne Michaels has a joke about this. He says, generally when people talk about the best cast, I think, well, that's when they were in high school. So it really is one of those things where People just reminisce fondly on their childhoods and they associate their cast members with that era. But, but also the current conversations regarding SNL's humor, they're not original by any means. In the 2000 audiences are saying, I mean I love the 70s, 80s and 90s. The 2010s audiences then turned around and praised the 2000 audiences are cast members. So it is just one of those things where it's almost a good thing that SNL isn't funny anymore in the current landscape because that means humor is evolving, they're trying to push the needle a little bit. Change is afoot and that is a good thing when it comes to comedies.
- [05:36]
Neal Freyman
And whenever, you know, history has been made over the past half century, SNL has been there. I'm thinking about that first show after 911 when then new York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani got up there flanked by firefighters and police officers and even had this funny back and forth with, with Lorne Michaels where Michaels asked can we be funny? And Giuliani responded why start now? And then another, of course really important cultural and political moment for SNL was Tina Fey's parody of Sarah Palin who was the vice presidential candidate of John McCain in 2008. And there was an actually an academic study that was published, they surveyed young adults and these researchers, this was published in an academic journal. They found evidence that exposure to Tina Fey's impersonation of Sarah Palin's performance in the vice presidential debate of that year was associated with changes in attitudes toward her selection as a VP candidate and presidential vote intentions. Those effects were most pronounced among self identified independents and, and Republicans.
- [06:40]
Toby Howell
But again, I'm going to toss something right back in your face. Kamala Harris went on SNL pre election that cold open got 11 million views on YouTube. Millions more obviously when it aired live on television. But then you look at something like a Donald Trump appearance on Joe rogan that got 55 million views on YouTube. So for every sentence that you can say, oh, it still is this cultural touch point, maybe it has been passed by other mediums like podcasts, like you know, YouTube shows. So again there is fodder on whichever side of the debate that, that you want to fall on. But what is undebatable is the fact that it has lasted over, you know, 50 years.
- [07:16]
Neal Freyman
So how did Saturday Night Live get off the ground 50 years ago? You can thank Johnny Carson. In 1974, the legendary late night host complained to NBC that he no longer wanted the network to air reruns of the Tonight show. On Saturday nights. So NBC had this gap to fill. The company's new president, Herbert Schlosser, had an idea for a live broadcast from Rockefeller center called Saturday Night. He took a meeting with a Canadian TV writer and producer named Lorne Michaels, who pitched him on a comedy concept that would seem as if kids had sneaked into the studio after the adults went home. And that pitch worked. Lauren got the job and began rounding up a cast for the show's debut in 1975. He hired friends from Canada, including Dan Aykroyd and Gilda Radner, and an absurdist comic named John Belushi. He also locked in what would later be the first Hollywood star to emerge from snl, Chevy Chase. This troupe of misfit comics called themselves the Not Ready for Primetime Players. And that really was the perfect description. They represented an avant garde, boundary pushing style of sketch comedy that marked a departure from the more suited up era embodied by Carson.
- [08:27]
Toby Howell
Yeah, and honestly, let's relive that first show too, because, you know, it wasn't great. It was a little half formed at the time. What it did introduce the people too, was this idea of a cold open just dropping people right into the scene. It also introduced the idea of breaking the fourth wall. I mean, in that first ever sketch, Chevy Chase in a headset comes on stage and announces, live from New York, it's Saturday Night Live. So it did have.
- [08:51]
Neal Freyman
From Saturday night.
- [08:52]
Toby Howell
From Saturday night, yeah. It was a different, different name at the time. And then also, who is the first SNL host? Because hosts are a huge part of the SNL conversation. It was comedian George Carlin. He didn't actually participate in any of the skits or the sketches because one, he didn't like acting and two, didn't really like being part of a team. But then that's when Lauren kind of had this aha moment that says, wait a second. We definitely do need to fold these hosts into our cast. But I do think it was crazy how many mainstay SNL segments were introduced in that first episode. I already mentioned Cold Open, already mentioned Live from New York. But there's also a first SNL parody commercial. We've all seen one of those that has become just an enduring format throughout the history. And then also Weekend Update right from the first episode was a thing. And that is still probably some people's highlights of the show to this day. So you've watched the show over the past 50 years. You will see some stuff that you recognize in modern television and another tradition.
- [09:50]
Neal Freyman
Of snl, which is that the cast members come and leave pretty quickly to go on to maybe bigger and better things. Maybe a movie career also happened in the first season. Chevy Chase was so popular in his role as SNL that he left after the first season to go pursue a Hollywood career. And who did he. Who did Lorne Michaels replace him with? Was Bill Murray, who also had a pretty good career. Now, you can't really talk about SNL without diving into the man, the myth, Lorne Michaels. Because while hundreds of stars have come and gone, he's been the rock and ringleader of the circus for nearly all of the 50 years in its existence, spawning all sorts of theories into his management styles, talent scouting and philosophy on comedy and entertainment. More broadly, he's been compared to Obi Wan Kenobi by Tracy Morgan, the great and powerful oz by Kate McKinnon, and Tom Ripley by Bill Hader. But perhaps the most appropriate parallel is the leader of the Lost Boys in Peter Pan, presiding over a group of kids that never grow up because they're constantly getting replaced. Even if you don't know what Lauren Michaels is all about, you do, because he is reportedly the inspiration for Dr. Evil. In Austin Powers, SNL alum Mike Myers adopted Lawrence right into the character. And Dr. Evil raises a pinky to his mouth when plotting, which alludes to how Lauren would bite his nails when considering which sketches to cut. Toby, he's such an interesting case study in leadership. How do you manage all of these egos in one room? How do you keep a show consistent when the cast is constantly changing? How do you adapt to changing consumer taste for comedy and the ways people watch TV? Only Dr. Evil could pull it off.
- [11:27]
Toby Howell
And Lorne Michaels, I mean, he is one of those people that you just have to refer, refer to by a single name, and people know who it is. I mean, you can just call him Lauren, and most people from the industry just understand who you're talking about. But it is such an interesting role that he occupies because you can't micromanage a troupe of comedy people. But some. Al Franken has famously said that they needed a leader. Someone has to lead the show. And Lorne Michaels has been that figure. I do think it was fascinating how much control he does actually exert over the final product. Like, he is the one who, who picks the final sketches that make it onto the show that you see. And it's not always, you know, the funniest sketches. He has to consider all these other factors, like, is the host going to be happy? Am I fitting everyone in? You know, he's got a team that he has to coach up. Are these sketches going to play all across America? They can't just be relevant to New York City. They have to be relevant to the entirety of all 50 states. Is there enough, you know, topical material that makes the show continue to be relevant? So once you start thinking about everything that is going through Lorne Michaels mind, you start to have a greater appreciation for what he's been able to pull off over 50 years.
- [12:33]
Neal Freyman
And these decisions are made until right before the show starts. Now, I didn't know this. Maybe you didn't know this, but at 8pm on Saturday, they do a full dress rehearsal. There's a live audience there. They do everything as they would in the show. There are many sketches in there that actually don't make the show. Lauren is sitting there watching the show talk trans. He's talking to his assistant who's writing down notes furiously. He's gauging whether the audience is laughing or not engaging the audience reaction to the show. So the show goes on at 8pm three and a half hours before it goes live. And a number of sketches are cut during that dress rehearsal. Other writers and actors for Saturday Night Live said, you know, those notes that are taken during that dress rehearsal are the most, you know, the most rich TV notes that one could ever have if you want to be. To learn how to be a producer.
- [13:28]
Toby Howell
And the question does become, though, because we're at 50 years now, Lorne Michaels is, you know, over 80 years old. Who can succeed him? Who is the, you know, anointed successor to the throne? Some of the names that have been thrown out are Tina Fey, Seth Meyers, but a lot of people are just kind of looking at everything he does and going, I don't know who else can pull this off. That's how synonymous and that how. That's how important he is, you know, making this show what it is.
- [13:52]
Neal Freyman
And Lauren, before we, before we leave, Lauren, you know, he had some really interesting thoughts and philosophies on comedy that I think and entertainment that you might want to hear about. He has these little quips. So, you know, one of them was to not over explain. He told his writers not to over explain. Let your viewers make key connections. Give the audience two plus two and let them make four. He told writers not to write in angry people. He said, it's really difficult to make anger funny idiots play better than a holes. And then finally, he does not like improvising, which is really interesting because so many of the comics that you See, on SNL you assume are great improvisers, but everything is written out to a T beforehand. And he likes those cue cards, no teleprompters. So everything is written on a cue cards. And he just likes to do the work beforehand, which I sympathize with to eliminate the amount of improvising that needs to happen on stage.
- [14:46]
Toby Howell
It's making me think we should go to cue cards a little bit, Neil. I think we just adopt everything that Lauren wants to do and make this show, you know. Live from New York, it's Morning Brew Daily Show. Now let's go to a quick commercial break. Neil, you've had the chance to work with plenty of strong leaders in your career. What traits you think are the most important?
- [15:07]
Neal Freyman
In my experience, a few things do stand out, like leading by example, taking risks and being passionate.
- [15:13]
Toby Howell
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That's definitely a match made in heaven.
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- [15:42]
Neal Freyman
Literally all the time. Just ask my lower back.
- [15:45]
Toby Howell
Yeah, my knee is saying the exact same thing.
- [15:48]
Neal Freyman
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- [16:09]
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- [16:15]
Toby Howell
Want to feel aging differently? Get 10 off your first order of Mito Pure@timeline.com Morning Brew Daily. That's T I M E l I n e.com/morning brew daily. Another reason why SNL carried so much juice throughout the years was that Lorne Michaels show was pumping out movie stars left and right. National Lampoon's Animal House turned John Belushi into a comedy, a lister. And from then on, the gates were opened. Chevy Chase, Bill Murray, Eddie Murphy, Billy Crystal, Ben Schiller, Mike Myers, Adam Sandler, Will Ferrell, they all dominated the box office at one point or the other. From the mid-70s into the 2000s. Now the pipeline has certainly started to leak these days. You can point to success from Tina Fey, Amy Poehler, Bill Hader and Jason Sudeikis when it comes to their TV work. But you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks that they are or even were movie stars. Kristen Wiig and Maya Rudolph were probably in the last big comedy that starred SNL cast members in Bridesmaids. But that mainly served as a launching pad for Melissa McCarthy, who wasn't an SNL cast member, even though she certainly felt like she was. So Neil, a lot of SNL's relevance in the past came from reliably pumping out these movie stars. Something that doesn't really happen anymore these days.
- [17:33]
Neal Freyman
Yeah. At one point it was estimated that the top 10 grossing movie comedies in history all starred alums of SNL. I think you could point to internal factors within SNL saying the cast just isn't as good. Lorne Michaels is not doing a good job of talent scouting or people have moved on to comedians have pursued different paths because there are so many ways to get famous now, not just SNL as the gatekeeper anymore. It could also point to broader trends of movie comedies dying and not being a force in the box office anymore. Before the show, the whole morning brew office, we were trying to list off the most relevant comedy movies of the last decade and we literally could not come up with anything. So it's probably some sort of combination between SNL as not necessarily the golden standard for comedians to get famous anymore and just the broad decline of comedies at the box office in general.
- [18:29]
Toby Howell
Yeah. Judd Apatow, who is a comedy director, has said that maybe it's not that it's an industry problem where the industry is no longer giving this next generation of comedy stars the option to even star. He's rails against the industry for, you know, relying on familiar ip, relying on established stars over giving someone a chance to try something new. And then he called out movies like the Hangover, which featured Zach Gallifianakis who came out of nowhere. He was a nobody before then, and then pretty much everyone in the 40 year old version was brand new as well. So it is just kind of a shift that we've seen in the movie landscape. It's probably not as much to do with the fact that the people on the show aren't as funny any as they were in the past. Even though that's something that, you know, a lot of people like to say. So it probably is quasi industry related, which is why we're not seeing this reliable pipeline turning out people anymore.
- [19:20]
Neal Freyman
I think it also speaks to the rise of TV over movies. We've saw streaming platforms come in with massive budgets. Netflix spends, you know, $15 billion per year on TV. And a lot of actors, whether they're comedic actors or dramatic actors, have started to doing do more tv, rather movies, because it pays, you know, just as good, if not more. And people do watch a lot of streaming services. And there has been success in the TV realm, as you mentioned. I mean, Ted Lasso was a phenomenon starring Jason Sudeikis that was on tv, not a movie. But if it was a movie, then, you know, we'd probably be talking it in a similar breath to some of these comedians of SNL of old. So I think it does speak to the broader rise of TV over movies in the cultural cachet. And that's a really good transition because one of the most fascinating aspects of SNL's 50 years of existence is how it's mirrored and adapted to the different ways people consume media. The most prominent example is the rise of YouTube, which NBC says is it's responsible for and contributed to its later acquisition by Google. Here's the story. On December 15, 2005, YouTube officially launched. Two days after that, the Lonely island comedy group led by Andy Samberg premiered their digital short Lazy Sunday on Saturday Night Live. The lo fi music video satirical rap about watching the Chronicles of Narnia movie was uploaded to the platform shortly after and quickly became a Sensation. It got 2 million plus views in its first week alone, which was unheard of at the time and drove YouTube traffic 83% higher. For many people in my generation, millennials, it was the first YouTube video we ever saw. Less than a year Later, Google bought YouTube for $1.5 billion. NBC contends that Lazy Sunday was the clip that built YouTube. But YouTube has responded that it would have been popular no matter what. Whichever theory you subscribe to, it was historic. Lazy Sunday was the first TV show clip to have a viral second life online, something that seems so commonplace today.
- [21:27]
Toby Howell
And then another thing that it kind of ushered in was this era of trying to take down viral clips, because at that time, you know, there weren't great laws about what copyright on the Internet was going to turn out to be. And so NBC was trying to orchestrate this huge takedown of of all the illegal reproductions of that clip. So that also ushered in just kind of a new era of online media. I have to talk about another, you know, Andy Samberg short with Justin Timberlake.
- [21:56]
Neal Freyman
I have to be.
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Toby Howell
I'm not going to say the whole thing, but that is a great segue. It's D in a Box, which was very revelant, but for a completely different reason. The song's language, which says D 16 times, caused the FCC to step in at the last minute and bleep it on air. Because, you know, the FCC is in charge of policing the airways and making sure no, you know, foul language is said out there. But then NBC uploaded the uncensored version after the show aired. So it was kind of the first attempt that we saw a show circumvent FCC censorship to try to broadcast their comedy out onto the Internet. So it was interesting to see how they were ducking and weaving to get, you know, this, the satirical song out there. So Lonely island is responsible for a lot of the modern Internet that we know today, even though probably a lot of people didn't actually even know that. That sort of history.
- [22:47]
Neal Freyman
And it's very ironic, I guess, that NBC wanted to take down its clips, Saturday Night live clips from YouTube, because, you know, that is where most people consume. Not most people. I don't have the data. That is where anecdotally, a large number of people consume SNL these days. I don't think I've talked to a single person who watches it live. And NBC, SNL has done a large initiative by putting their clips on YouTube. And that is where SNL lives in the minds of many. And it's very, you know, uncertain about what happens to snl, the future as a live show, because so many of its clips, like so many else, so many other types of media that we Consume is on YouTube. And, you know, Lonely island started it, NBC wanted it off, and now they are very intentional about crafting clips and putting their, their lives, their live segments, their sketches on YouTube, because that is where we watch it nowadays.
- [23:46]
Toby Howell
Finally, let's finish our SNL 50th anniversary show with some fun facts you can drop to impress your friends. Any show that lasts 50 years has some juicy nuggets. Neil, you won the pre show cold open contest, so you're up first. What were you able to dig up?
- [24:01]
Neal Freyman
Well, I want to hand out some host superlatives. The person who's hosted SNL the most times is alec Baldwin with 17 appearances and he's one of only five people to host SNL at least 10 times, along with Steve Martin, John Goodman, Buck Henry and Tom Hanks and other host history. The oldest host was Betty White and the youngest host was Drew Barrymore at 7 years old in 1982 after starring in E.T. that must have been past her bedtime.
- [24:29]
Toby Howell
I have some fun facts. Thank you for those. Neil. The show has a ban list. Two of the more prominent names on them are Adrian Boddy for doing this unscripted bizarre Jamaican accent, and then Steven Seagal for being so difficult to work with that Lorne Michaels called him the worst host ever. Some of those are disputed there, but it's good. Laura Brodie has said to his knowledge, that he's not actually banned, but I have also never been invited back on and then I got a great Larry David anecdote for you. Neil Larry David quit, then came back like nothing happened before Seinfeld. Larry Divert Larry David was a writer for SNL in the early 80s, but he hated kind of the work environment. He didn't like that his sketches weren't making it to air. So one night he just quit mid season. But then he realized that he really needed the job. So he pulled like a George Costanza and just showed up the next Monday as if nothing had happened. No one said anything and he finished the season. That is just a great fact from Larry David and SNL lore.
- [25:29]
Neal Freyman
There is a episode of Seinfeld where George does that, so I assume that is. I assume that is exactly what Larry David does. He's. Yeah, he just shows up the next day as if nothing happened.
- [25:39]
Toby Howell
And then finally the highest rated show in the show's history on IMDb. It was hosted by Eddie Murphy with the musical guest of Lizzo got an 8.8 back in 2019. So you can say maybe the show is peaking in recent years. Or you could just say that a lot more people were rating shows on IMDb in, you know, the 2019, 2020. Then back in the show's history. And I also have the lowest rated show ever. That is Steven Seagal and Michael Bolton back in 1975 that has a 5.4 on IMDb.
- [26:12]
Neal Freyman
Well, that is all the time we have. Thanks so much for starting your morning with us and taking a trip through Memor Memory Lane for snl. Have a wonderful President's Day holiday. We'll be back tomorrow with our regularly scheduled programming. For any questions, comments or feedback, send an email to Morning Brew daily at Morning Broadcom. And if you're enjoying the show, share it with a friend, family member or co worker Toby who should everyone listening share it with Today.
- [26:37]
Toby Howell
Share this episode with someone who always sends you really funny videos that just aren't that funny. We all have that person in your life sending you memes sending you SNL sketches that just don't hit. In return, send them this episode that certainly will hit.
- [26:51]
Neal Freyman
Let's roll the credits. Emily Milian is our executive producer. Raymond Lu is our producer. Olivia Graham is our associate producer. Lonnie Fiskus is our technical director. Scoop Stardaris is on audio, hair and makeup is a Debbie Downer. Devin Emery is our chief content officer. And our shows are pro production of Morning Brew.
- [27:09]
Toby Howell
Great show today, Neil. Bye.