Klarna Losing Millions on "Burrito Loans" & People Love Trader Joe's

Summary

Morning Brew Daily – May 21, 2025

Episode: Klarna Losing Millions on "Burrito Loans" & People Love Trader Joe's
Hosts: Neal Freyman & Toby Howell

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Trader Joe's Tops Reputable Companies, Klarna Struggles

Trader Joe's Reigns Supreme

Trader Joe's has been crowned the most reputable company in America according to the latest Axios Harris Poll 100. The poll assesses public perception across various categories such as trust, character, culture, products, and vision. Neal Freyman highlighted, “What do Trader Joe's, Patagonia, Costco, Toyota, and Arizona Beverages have in common?” emphasizing their top rankings and widespread consumer admiration (12:30).

Klarna's Financial Woes

Conversely, Klarna, the prominent Buy Now, Pay Later (BNPL) giant, has seen a significant downturn. The company reported consumer credit losses soaring to $136 million, which is a 17% increase compared to the first quarter of the previous year. This rise is attributed to declining consumer confidence, signaling that BNPL services are becoming burdensome for debt-strapped Americans. Neal commented, “They reported a net loss of $99 million for the three months to March, which is up from $47 million a year earlier” (04:05).

Klarna's ambitious pivot toward AI has also faced challenges. Initially aiming to replace 700 human customer service workers with an AI system, CEO Sebastian Shamakovsky acknowledged that quality suffered, leading the company to reintroduce human agents into their support chain. Toby added, “They are doing it in an Uber-type setup where some agents who just are fans of the company can step in and pick up a shift” (06:05).

Amperex Technology Co. Ltd. (Seattle) Makes a Global IPO Splash

Amperex Technology Co. Ltd., known as Seattle, the world's largest electric vehicle (EV) battery manufacturer, made headlines with its public debut in Hong Kong. Raising $4.6 billion, Seattle's IPO was the biggest of the year globally, its shares surging 16% on the first day. Despite supplying major auto manufacturers like Tesla and Volkswagen, Seattle faces geopolitical tensions, notably being blacklisted by the Pentagon over alleged ties to the Chinese military. Neal observed, “Seattle blocked American investors from piling into its public listing” (08:54), highlighting the complexities of global trade wars affecting financial markets.

Seattle aims to expand its footprint by building a $7 billion battery plant in Hungary to service the European market, competing directly with BYD by developing super-fast charging batteries that can charge a car for over 320 miles in just five minutes. Toby emphasized, “It's a company to keep your eye on. Probably the biggest company that you should know about in terms of the global world order right now that you maybe didn't before today” (10:56).

Axios Harris Poll 100: Brands That Win and Lose Trust

Brands at the Top

The Axios Harris Poll 100 ranked Trader Joe's, Patagonia, Microsoft, Toyota, and Costco in the top five positions. These companies have maintained strong consumer trust through consistent value systems and strategic pricing. Toby explained, “Trader Joe's is at the top because they have been able to keep prices down” (12:30), especially significant as 78% of Americans have noticed increasing grocery costs over the past year.

Decline of Elon Musk's Enterprises

Elon Musk's ventures, including Tesla and SpaceX, have plummeted in the rankings. Tesla fell from eighth place in 2021 to 95th this year, while SpaceX dropped 36 places to 84th. John Gerzema, CEO of Harris Poll, attributed this decline to “consumers are looking not just at the product, but who is behind the product, what values they represent” (12:30).

Notable Movements in Rankings

Home Depot made a significant leap, jumping 24 spots to rank number 15 after announcing it would hold prices steady despite tariff pressures. Conversely, Google experienced a notable drop of 23 spots to number 40, coinciding with public pushback against its heavy focus on AI narratives during its recent IO conference (20:42).

Klarna's "Burrito Loans" and Consumer Burden

Innovative Yet Problematic Financing

Klarna's partnership with DoorDash introduced the concept of "burrito loans," allowing customers to place takeout orders on credit. While innovative, this move has been criticized as frivolous, especially as consumer credit losses rise. Toby humorously noted, “Users are buying now, but they're not paying later” (00:35).

Strategic Shifts Toward Human Interaction

Faced with escalating losses and customer dissatisfaction, Klarna is revisiting its AI-driven strategies by reintegrating human support agents. This shift indicates the company's struggle to balance cost-cutting with quality customer service, a critical factor in maintaining consumer trust and financial stability.

Online Chess Marathon Ends in Draw with Magnus Carlsen

In an unprecedented online chess match, 143,000 participants collectively managed to draw against former world champion Magnus Carlsen after a grueling 46-day game on Chess.com. Neal elaborated, “Carlsen... likes this new wrinkle to it” (25:05), referring to the freestyle format where pieces are rearranged at the start, leveling the playing field.

Toby reflected on the event's significance, noting it wasn’t the first time Carlsen faced the world, mentioning Garry Kasparov's similar attempts in 1999. The event showcased the global engagement in chess and Carlsen's enduring prowess, even against massive collective efforts.

Flag Football's Olympic Debut: NFL Players Eye Gold

NFL Stars Embrace Olympic Opportunity

The NFL's decision to allow players to try out for flag football in the 2028 Los Angeles Olympics opens a new avenue for athletes to represent their countries. Justin Jefferson expressed enthusiasm, stating, “Playing in the Olympics and getting the gold is a dream” (25:05). This move aims to elevate flag football's profile globally, leveraging the popularity and athleticism of NFL players.

Strategic Selection and International Impact

With only one player per NFL team eligible for Olympic trials, teams are strategizing their picks carefully. Toby humorously listed potential stars like Patrick Mahomes and Christian McCaffrey, envisioning an all-star American flag football team. This initiative reflects the NFL's broader push into international markets, evidenced by their seven international games this year.

Final Headlines

Google's AI and Smart Glasses Innovations

Google unveiled its Android XR smart glasses prototype during its recent IO conference, featuring discreet cameras and displays capable of real-time translation and interactive prompts. Additionally, Google introduced a $250 per month AI Ultra subscription, granting access to its most advanced models. Neal mused, “Metta and Ray Ban versus Google and Warby Parker – choose your fighter” (20:42), referencing the competitive landscape of smart eyewear.

Home Depot vs. Walmart on Tariffs

Home Depot announced it would maintain steady prices despite tariff-induced cost pressures by diversifying its supply chain and utilizing a large domestic supplier base. In contrast, Walmart revealed plans to raise prices on select items like strollers and electronics due to tariff impacts. Neal commented humorously on the selective tariff impacts, highlighting how product lines influence corporate responses (22:30).

Magnus Carlsen vs. the World in Chess

Reiterating the earlier chess marathon, Neal provided additional context comparing the event to historical matches, underscoring Carlsen's adaptability to new formats and the collective intelligence of global participants.

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Conclusion:
In this episode of Morning Brew Daily, hosts Neal Freyman and Toby Howell dissect significant developments in consumer trust rankings, financial struggles of BNPL services like Klarna, groundbreaking IPO moves by global EV leaders, and innovative expansions into sports and technology. The discussions underscore the dynamic interplay between consumer behavior, corporate strategy, and global economic factors shaping today's business landscape.

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Note: All timestamps correspond to the original podcast transcript for reference.

Transcript

[Toby Howell]

Hey, Fidelity. How can I remember to invest every month? With the Fidelity app, you can choose a schedule and set up recurring investments in stocks and ETFs. Huh, that sounds easier than I thought. You got this?

[Neal Freyman]

Yeah, I do.

[Toby Howell]

Now where did I put my keys? You will find them where you left them. Investing involves risk, including risk of loss. Fidelity Brokerage Services, LLC Member nyse, SIPC.

[Neal Freyman]

Good Morning Brew Daily Show I'm Neal Freyman.

[Toby Howell]

And I'm Toby Howell.

[Neal Freyman]

Today, Trader Joe's has been ranked the most reputable company in America. But there's one name that sank far down the list then Klarna.

[Toby Howell]

Users are buying now, but they're not paying later. It's Wednesday, May 21st. Let's ride.

[Neal Freyman]

Here is some potentially useless information. Starting yesterday, every date written out in the American format for the next 1010 days will be the same backwards. Its palindromes all the way down. Tuesday was 520 25, today is 521 25, tomorrow is 522 25, etc. Etc. Until we hit May 30th when the streak will sadly end, it's not useless.

[Toby Howell]

Neil, I'm about to drop this fun fact in every single meeting I have from today until next Thursday when the streak ends. Feels like the universe is telling us to slow down and reflect. Or at least double check the date before signing anything. But I'm already looking ahead to the next palindromic date on the calendar. I've got 3-3-3033 circled. Let's have a party. And now a word from our sponsor, Iterable. Neil, you know those conversations with your mom, but there's a delay on the phone. You say something, they talk over you, you both stop. Then awkward silence. It's a mess.

[Neal Freyman]

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[Toby Howell]

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[Neal Freyman]

Real time marketing that actually feels real. No delays, no lag. Just seamless relevant communication that moves at the speed of your customer.

[Toby Howell]

The best conversations don't happen on a delay, they happen in the moment. Now remember to go call your moms and visit End the campaign dot com. The collateralized debt obligations that helped crash the economy in 2008 are back. But this time. It's not subprime mortgages going under, it's burritos. Klarna the Buy now, pay Later Giant said this week that its customers are struggling with that pesky second part, as consumer credit losses shot up to $136 million, 17% higher than the first quarter last year. Those losses came on the back of a lousy consumer confidence reading, a sign that BNPL is increasingly becoming a burden that debt saddled Americans can ill afford to bear. An uncertain macro environment has also put a damper on Klarna's IPO dreams as a Swedish company pressed pause on its long awaited public debut, citing the destabilizing impact of tariffs. Through it all, the company has been trying to channel its inner chamath, Friedberg Sachs and Calacanis and and going all in on AI. Its CEO presented its earnings call on Monday using an AI generated avatar of himself, though there have also been some rumblings that its AI aspirations have gone too far. Earlier this month, Klarna CEO Sebastian Shamakovsky said that the company began hiring human gig workers since AI by itself wasn't enough to provide quality customer service. Neil Garner has so many different balls in the area right now, from replacing workers with AI to navigating an uncertain economic environment, and it's got to figure it out now or there won't be a later.

[Neal Freyman]

Yeah, a lot of people are watching these earnings after Klarna signed this eyebrow raising deal with DoorDash, which means you could essentially put your $10 takeout delivery order on credit, which has led to a lot of jokes about collateralized burrito loans. But if you're looking at the consumer confidence measures that are plummeting, second lowest in history and you're like, well, people are broke. And you can certainly look at Klarna's earnings as evidence of that. They reported a net loss of $99 million for the three months to March, which is up from 47 million a year earlier. So losses have more than doubled. Those consumer credit losses are also skyrocketing. So if you're looking for a gauge of the health of the American consumer, you can certainly look to Klarna's credit approach to maybe find some answers.

[Toby Howell]

And Klarna is trying to say that this is not actually alarm bells going off going because the rise in unpaid balances is pretty low in their words. It's still very low. The share of its total lending of these, I wanted to say subprime mortgages that have gone bad, but these loans that have gone bad rose from 0.51% to 0.54%. So they're saying in the grand scheme of things, a lot of people still are paying off their burritos. But let's also talk about this big shift that they've gone through when it comes to AI. Klarna was on the forefront of this AI push. They said that an One AI system could replace 700 human customer service workers. But they've also said we may have gone too far. They said that maybe cost became too predominant of an evaluation factor and that quality suffered as a result of that. And so now they are trying to invest in the human aspect of customer support again. Semicovsky said that we want to have a human in the chain at all times basically too because they provide superior customer service to an AI bot. So it has been this interesting pivot from all into AI to introducing some more human touch back to Klarna.

[Neal Freyman]

Still, this company's workforce has shrunk dramatically as it's pivoted to AI, showing that they're still all in on this technology, which they said they wanted to be chatty or open AI's favorite guinea pig. Back in 2023, they used to have 5,000 employees. Now they're down to about 33,000, which is a 40% decrease. And the CEO wants to get that number down to about 2500. They've also at the same time grown their revenue per employee, which is not a surprise. That used to be 575,000 revenue dollars in revenue per employee. Now they're over 1 million.

[Toby Howell]

And actually, I didn't even mention the coolest part of this introduction of consumer support workers back into their chain. They are doing it in an Uber type setup where some agents who just are fans of the company, who maybe live in rural locations or even abroad in can just step in and pick up a shift on their consumer customer support hotline. Because he's like, a lot of our customers love Klarna. They're very knowledgeable about the product. So rather than hiring, you know, or outsourcing to a call center like that, they're bringing in agents ad hoc like you do, and hire an Uber driver. So Shmikovsky cannot stop innovating when it comes to customer serve. First. He's trying to.

[Neal Freyman]

I don't know if that would lead to better quality if you have people pop in and try to help.

[Toby Howell]

No, it's certainly a question, but he's constantly pushing the boundaries here. It doesn't. We will only know in the future if those boundary pushing was Actually the right strategy or not moving on.

[Neal Freyman]

Batteries are big business. And I'm not talking Triple A or even a 9 volt contemporary. Amperex Technology Co. Ltd. The world's largest maker of batteries for electric vehicles, went public in Hong Kong yesterday in the biggest listing of the year anywhere around the globe, shooting up 16% in its first day of trading. Seattle, as it's commonly known, raised $4.6 billion to ramp up its quest for global battery domination. Not that it isn't dominant already. The company supplies battery packs to the leading auto manufacturers, including Tesla, Volkswagen, Ford, Mercedes Benz and more, cornering the market with a commanding 38% share. Its financials are similarly impressive, generating sales of $50 billion last year and 7 billion in profits. You're probably listening to this, thinking, wow, Seattle is a dog. How do I invest? Well, if you're in America, you can't. Which is the plot twist you didn't see coming. Seattle and the folks in D.C. are not on good terms with the Pentagon blacklisting the company over alleged ties to the Chinese military. And as it's been caught up in these geopolitical tensions between the US And China, Seattle blocked American investors from piling into its public listing. Toby, if there's one company that showcases the kind of environment we're in right now, this Seattle is a pretty good choice.

[Toby Howell]

Yeah, it's pretty amazing that it's been able to have the success that it's had because the Pentagon blacklisting, it's got congressional scrutiny on it. It's part of a global trade war. But through it all, it did just have the biggest IPO of the year with no American money flowing into it, which was just something that kind of seemed a little bit unfathomable even just a few years ago, because that's where all the deep pocketed institutional investors are. That's where the deep pocketed, you know, recreational investors, retail investors are. And yet here, Seattle just had its Hong Kong listing and now two of the biggest IPOs of the year have been outside of the US there is also one in Japan that brought in nearly $3 billion. You have to go down to venture global and core. We've defined the first two US IPO, US based IPOs that even crack the top three. So it has been fascinating to see this kind of globalization of capital that has happened, that you don't need the US Investor in order to have a successful debut.

[Neal Freyman]

Right. Just go back 11 years. And another Chinese giant company went public. That was Alibaba. Where did it go public? That was the New York Stock Exchange and Alibaba felt like it needed to list in the United States because you're right, that's where the capital markets were leading. But we've seen this financial decoupling over the past few months, especially as capital has left the United States. And I think the Seattle public listing is probably a really good example of this. But its business is doing just fine. And that's because the EV market in China is going nuts. EV sales surged to 11 million last year, which is a 40% increase compared to the previous year. It wants to expand in Europe. That's what it's raising all this money for is to build a $7 billion battery plant in Hungary to service the European market. And it's going toe to toe with BYD on making a super fast charging battery. It says it can now charge a car for over 320 miles on five minutes of charge.

[Toby Howell]

I can't even charge my iPhone and get three hours out of it. It can charge a battery in five minutes. Get 320 miles. Yes, definitely a company to keep your eye on. Probably the biggest company that you should know about in terms of the global world order right now that you maybe didn't before today.

[Neal Freyman]

What do Trader Joe's, Patagonia, Costco, Toyota and Arizona Beverages have in common? Besides sounding like the perfect ingredients for a little weekend day trip? You're all gaga over these brands. These companies ranked in the top 10 of the Axios Harris Poll 100, which measures the public perception of the most visible US companies across categories like trust, character, culture, products and vision. The top five were, in order, TJ's, Patagonia, Microsoft, Toyota and Costco, with Arizona Beverage Company, Apple, Nintendo, Home Depot, and In and out, all ranking in the top 20. What's not in the top 20? Any of Elon Musk's companies, which have suffered a steep dive in the reputation rankings as he's taken more political public positions. Take Tesla, for example. In 2021, the automaker was in eighth place, but last year it fell to 63rd. And this year it's a bottom feeder at 95. SpaceX also dropped 36 places from the previous year to 84. Harris Poll CEO John Gerzema tried to explain the plunge, saying, quote, consumers are looking not just at the product, but who is behind the product, what values they represent. That's increasingly a reputational risk for leaders like Musk. Toby, what's your takeaway from this? What can we learn about businesses at the top of the rankings and the ones that rank poorly.

[Toby Howell]

I do think that inflation expectations and consumer sentiment did drive a lot of the rankings this year. It's part of the reason why Trader Joe's is at the top one. They have this very clear value system. They're very firm on their corporate values, but also they haven't really raised prices. And I think a big stat that illustrates why it's at the top is 78% of Americans have noticed increasing costs of groceries over the past year. So it makes sense that Trader Joe's top the rankings because they have been able to keep prices down. So this singular shift towards prices and inflation led some of those more price conscious companies to rocket up the rankings. And then also some other names that I think were interesting as they've rise and fallen through the ranks. Deep seek, the Chinese AI company debuted at number 46 on the list that is above open air that comes in at number 55 on this list. State Farm only fell seven places after its role in the California wildfires, coming in just ahead of DraftKings at 63. And then home Depot was actually one of the biggest risers, jumping 24 spots to race number reach number 15. We're going to talk about this later in the show, but they just came out and said well we are holding prices steady. So again it speaks to this price conscious consumer. And then outside of Tesla, Google was one of the biggest followers dropping 23 spots to number 40. So just some interesting reshuffling amongst the middle of the rankings as well. Let's take a break and then talk about some really, really bad soccer teams.

[Neal Freyman]

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[Toby Howell]

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[Neal Freyman]

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[Toby Howell]

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[Neal Freyman]

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[Toby Howell]

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[Neal Freyman]

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[Toby Howell]

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[Neal Freyman]

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[Toby Howell]

To learn more about how you can use Wise Business to save time, money and stress, visit wise.combusiness. that's wise.combusiness There is a very important soccer game going down in Bilbao today between two very, very bad soccer clubs. Manchester United, a once proud titan of European football, is taking on Tottenham, a less proud and less titanic member of European football, in the Europa League final, where stakes won't match the quality of the game. Man U and Tottenham are both stuck in their worst seasons of top flight football in their history, mired just above the relegation zone in the Premier League in 16th and 17th place. But they both have a lifeline to claw back some pride in money. Today. The Europa League is basically the NIT tournament to the Champions League's March Madness. And while winning grants you a nice trophy, the real prize is a ticket back to the big kids table and a chance to earn a lot of cash. Any club that even makes it to the Champions league earns over $21 million just for showing up. If you make a deep run, that can net you $100 million or more. So despite unfathomably bad seasons from both, Tottenham have won just a single game since February. Both clubs have a chance to backdoor their way into the European elite and earn a small fortune at that. Neil I'm a Manchester United fan and it's almost embarrassing to think that somehow we will be playing Champions League football after the sorry arse season we've had.

[Neal Freyman]

Just for some background for people who may be new to European soccer, imagine that during the baseball season, MLB clubs are playing a concurrent tournament against teams from Canada, Mexico, South America. This tournament is running during the same time as the MLB season. It's just international in scope or continental. That's what happens in soccer. But there isn't just one tournament going on, there's a couple different ones. And there's the Champions League, which is the the one that the Dodgers, the Tigers, the Phillies would be. And then there is the nit, the second tier one, which is the Europa League. And that would be like where the Reds, Braves and Red Sox the Mediocre teams are playing. Somehow Manchester United in Tottenham, despite being terrible in their quote unquote, MO B season, made it to the finals of this Europa League. And there's so much money at stake. And it's not just that winning would be good, it's that losing would be bad. Because these, especially a team like Manchester United, makes financial plans going forward with the understanding that they would be in the champions league in $100 million that comes with it. And you might think that Manchester United, wow, like there's a global brand, they must be just like raking in money. But they're actually in a very dire financial situation. They are $1 billion in debt. They are clocking up three straight seasons of losses. So is Tottenham. I haven't even mentioned that. But together those two teams have lost £300 million over the past three years. So it's not just like a nice to have, it's a need to have.

[Toby Howell]

Can you give us a metaphor that doesn't involve baseball? Now? Dude, what if people don't understand the baseball season? Use the NFL now to explain the baseball season to then explain the Champions League. No, you did very well there. But I also think this just shows how unprecedentedly rich the top flight of British of English soccer is right now. The Premier League just has insane wealth and a depth. The fact that two 16th and the 17th place team can meet at the second highest level of European competition is kind of crazy. Just simply existing in English soccer means that you're going to receive a million of $150 million per season because of its lucrative TV deals. So the entire league as a whole is just richer than most of the other leagues spread across Europe. So I do think that it's no coincidence that nine of the top 18 revenue generated generating clubs in Europe are English. And it just shows the depth and not, I was going to say the quality of this league, but I won't even mention the product on the field. But the depth of this league is just astounding when it comes to how much money these teams are bringing in.

[Neal Freyman]

All right, so who is winning this game?

[Toby Howell]

I honestly want them both to lose. It's truly embarrassing. If Manchester United, when I guess I, I am rooting for it deep down, but I, I feel embarrassed that we would win and make it to the Champions League after the season that we just had. Let's sprint to the finish with some final headlines. Google hosted its big IO conference yesterday to show off all its AI and search upgrades. But a piece of hardware is stealing a lot of the headlines. Google unveiled its Android XR smart glasses prototype at their buzzy keynote set on Warby Parker frames, which caused the glasses company to jump 15% on the announcement. They contain a discrete camera and a display and the right lens. You can prompt Gemini by pressing on the frame and asking it to identify a painting or pick which guidebook is best for an outdoorsy type for a trip to Japan or even do live translation. Again, still just a prototype, but according to reviews quickly catching up to Meta's Ray Ban glasses and non glasses news, Google also introduced a $250 a month AI Ultra subscription that gives you access to all its most powerful models. And speaking of live translation, Google Meet can now do AI powered live voice translation, starting with English and Spanish. So Neil, no shortage of cutting edge announcements.

[Neal Freyman]

Metta and Ray Ban versus Google and Warby Parker choose your fighter. This has been a hugely successful product for Metta, these smart glasses and now Google I guess has shed the nightmares of Google glass back in 2013 and they're looking to see Zuck make all this money with these smart glasses. And they're like, hey, you know guys, we pioneered this thing. Like, don't remember, we laid the founder foundation for all of you. It's time for us to get back in the ring. I just don't know whether the Warby Parker look will over or supersede the the Ray Ban look.

[Toby Howell]

Yeah, the glasses orange are certainly kicking off in earnest. But also I was just cruising Reddit and X as this keynote was going on and one user kind of summed up the general sentiment pretty well and said serious question, are they going to talk about something else other than AI? So when we talked about that Harris Axios poll and Google falling in the rankings, maybe their overreliance on pushing AI narratives have contributed to that. So it's interesting to see those two things kind of happen in parallel and see that kind of this negative pushback from an audience on social media. Home Depot zagged while other retailers have zigged and announced yesterday that it does not plan to implement price increases for customers even as tariffs raise costs. It's trying to keep prices low by doing some supply chain magic, diversifying its sourcing to make use of its large domestic supply base. However, the company warned that some specific products may become unavailable or see price adjustments if tariffs make them impractical to stock. The announcement comes on the heels of Walmart announcing it will raise prices on certain items due to the impact of tariffs, saying that the magnitude of those costs increase is too Great for the company to absorb fully. So Neil, two roads diverged in the retailer woods and Home Depot is taking the one that eats the tariffs.

[Neal Freyman]

Well, it might have to do with wood because Home Depot sells a lot of lumber, but so far there haven't been any tariffs on lumbered, even though that's threatened. We get 30% of the software lumber consumed in the United States is imported. Canada accounts for 80% of that. If lumber gets tariff, then I don't know whether Home Depot can keep keep its prices steady as it has. But it just might be a quirk of what these two retailers sell. Walmart is raising prices mostly on like strollers and electronics and toys, which Home Depot doesn't really sell. So Home Depot is going on the offensive and saying, wow, we have a really diversified supplier base. Over 50% of our stuff already comes from the United States. We are just going to hit the gas pedal and try to take market share away from our competitors that are raising prices. Next up. Turns out Magnus Carlsen is about as good at chess as 143,000 randos. In the largest online chess match ever held, dubbed Magnus Carlsen versus the world, 143,000 people working together managed to draw the former world champion in a marathon 46 day game on Chess.com that ended yesterday. Carlson, who was favored heavily to win, said overall, the world has played very, very sound chess from the start. Okay, Toby, so they tied Magnus Carlsen. Big whoop. How would these for 143,000 people do against one gorilla?

[Toby Howell]

That is a good question. But this was not the first versus the world match that they've had. I mean, it goes back all the way to 1999 where Garry Kasparov played against more than 50,000 people on a Microsoft network. At that time, he actually won that game after 4 month Magnus Carlsen draw. So actually drew. So take that with a grain of salt. But one thing that was interesting too is that people in the comments were kind of rallying for one pathway or another because everyone would vote on each move and a lot of people were saying like, don't draw. I know we can force a draw. That would technically be a giant win for us. But I want to keep playing against Magnus. Carlson. How many times do you get this opportunity? And then the final thing that we need to caveat this was is that it wasn't classical chess. This was freestyle chess where the bishops and the knights actually get rearranged to start the board at the beginning. So you're not just following these very set opening moves. Carlsen loves playing it because he's basically conquered every other aspect of chess, so he likes this new wrinkle to it. So I do think in classical chess, Magnus Carlsen would still be favored against, you know, everyone on earth. But the fact that it was freestyle means that the world had a chance here, and Carlson was pretty complimentary of how the world did.

[Neal Freyman]

Finally, Justin Jefferson, running a go route against a Lithuanian car mechanic, could be coming to a screen near you. Yesterday, the NFL owners approved a resolution that allows the league's players to try out for flag football at the 2028 Los Angeles Olympics, effectively handing the gold medal to Team usa, which would presumably dominate any other country. The NFL players seemed amped for a chance to represent their country, something they aren't typically able to do, like athletes in basketball, hockey, baseball or soccer. Jefferson, the Vikings star wide receiver, said, quote, playing in the Olympics and getting the gold dream. Getting the gold medal is a dream. And following the announcement, fans were also dreaming of their flag football dream team. Starting five.

[Toby Howell]

I mean, how can you not. The caveat here is that only one player from each NFL team can try out for a country's given Olympic team. So that is good for international players because they can go and represent their countries, but for Americans, that means we can only pick, you know, one player from the Vikings, one player from the Dolphins, and etcetera, etcetera. I put together a little list because why wouldn't you. Iqb. I'm going with either Patrick Mahomes or Lamar Jackson if we want a little more mobility. Running back, easy pick Christian McCaffrey, but I also think maybe Bijan Robinson from the Falcons, very shifty. And then wide receivers are pretty easy. Any combo of Justin Jefferson, Jamar Chase and Tyree Kill. It is very funny to imagine us playing, you know, Spain in flag football and trotting out this, this lineup of NFL players, but it makes sense because the NFL is making this a major push into international. They have seven games internationally on the calendar this year. So what better stage to, you know, show football to the world then with your NFL players just absolutely dominating flag football?

[Neal Freyman]

It's just wild. Like flag football is going to be an Olympic sport in three years. I hope legit Olympics.

[Toby Howell]

I hope it's a good product. If it is like, just tough where, I don't know, the pass rush rules are just a little funky and it's just not that exciting. But if you get, you know, these players in open space, it is going to be compelling television.

[Neal Freyman]

That is all the time we have thanks so much for starting your morning with us and have a wonderful day. Wednesday Two more days until Memorial Day weekend. Almost time to fire up the smoker. If you have any thoughts on the show, don't keep it to yourself. Send an email with questions, comments or feedback to Morning Brew daily at Morning Broadcom. Let's roll the credits. Emily Milian is our executive producer. Raymond Lu is our producer. Our associate producers are Olivia Graham and Olivia Lake. Scoop star Daris is on audio Hair makeup is just glad they're a Liverpool fan. Devin Emery is our president and our shows are productive production of Morning Brew.

[Toby Howell]

Great show today Neil. Let's run it back tomorrow.