Mike Barnicle (1:48)

No, you know, people that don't want to move their feet, that don't want to do the work required to stop this senseless killing. We'll always say hopes and prayers. Hopes and prayers. But, Mike, as Mika just said, we talked yesterday while this was going on, those young children, those young babies were praying and hoping for the start of a wonderful new year. And yet we've just seen it. We've seen it way too much. This has happened so much. It's been happening for 15, 20 years. Yes. You know, I think Mother Teresa said, pray as if there's no such thing as work. And work as if there's no such thing as prayer. It's about time members of Congress and people in Washington, D.C. start doing this and stop this madness.

David Ignatius (2:41)

Joe, we have had live shooter drills in high schools and office parks for a quarter of a century in America. 25 years of live shooter drills. And yesterday in Minneapolis, one troubled individual shooting into a Catholic Mass. As the Mass was ongoing early in the morning, managed to kill innocents and a sense of safety that will endure with the children who were in that church and the parents who were there in that church for the rest of their lives. And in Washington, D.C. we have the National Guard collecting trash. There are many neighborhoods in Washington, D.C. where public safety is a daily concern, unlike neighborhoods where many of us do live, where we don't have to worry about that. But there's something wrong in America that we have to really work hard to figure out. Something has gone wrong in this country.

Jay Gray (3:41)

We're going to bring you a live report from Minneapolis in just a moment on that. Plus, the mayor of Washington, D.C. gives some praise to the troops on the city streets, but says certain parts of the federal takeover are not working. We'll tell you what changes she wants to see. Also ahead, we'll go through the major shakeup at the CDC, HHS Secretary RFK Jr. Firing the agency's director less than a month after her Senate confirmation.

Mike Barnicle (4:12)

And I guess Willie the appointee says at least Abby Lowell says she's not fired. I mean, she's still there still. She's still on the job. But again, it's just what ghouls go and try to completely get rid of the very people who are part of a process. Again, why don't we just talk about Donald Trump and Operation Warp Speed that just over the past couple years, these vaccines have saved tens of millions of lives, opened up businesses, opened up schools, opened up churches, synagogues, opened up the world. And now again, this is a one man mission that Republicans knew was coming, the Senate, Senate Republicans knew would happen, doctors voting, knew this would happen. They voted for him anyway. And here it is.

Mika Brzezinski (5:05)

Fascinating moment at that Cabinet meeting, that marathon Cabinet meeting a couple days ago where President Trump went on a long rift touting Operation Warp Speed, remembering the difference it made, the lives it saved, which it did, and then sort of realized that Bobby Kennedy Jr. Was sitting down. He said, well, this is not going to go over well with him. It's not going to make him comfortable. Why are we enduring that? Why are we tolerating that? Exactly. Who cares? And this is, by the way, the head of the CDC is not a Biden holdover. This is a person who was confirmed by this Republican Senate under President Trump. And yet she said, I'm not going to go along with some of the craziest elements of Bobby Kennedy jr. S ideas. And for that, she's about to lose her job.

Jay Gray (5:45)

Yeah. All right. We get to our top story this morning. In Minneapolis, two children, 8 and 10, were killed yesterday when a shooter opened fire during a morning mass at annunciation Catholic Church. Seventeen other people, including 14 children and three adults in their 80s, were injured. The children are students at the school and were attending an all school mass, an annual tradition for the new academic year, which began on Monday. Minneapolis police say the shooter aimed directly at the children in the pews through the church's stained glass windows. Those inside the church at the time of the shooting say the gunfire lasted about two minutes. A 10 year old fifth grader gave a firsthand account of what he saw and said his life was saved by the heroic actions of a friend.

Joe Scarborough (6:41)

How old are you?

Weston (child witness) (6:42)

I'm 10.

Joe Scarborough (6:43)

What grade are you in? I'm in 5th. Can you talk a little bit about what you saw today?

Weston (child witness) (6:50)

Well, it was like shots fired and.

Jay Gray (6:53)

Then we kind of like got under the pews. It kind of big shot through the.

Weston (child witness) (7:02)

Stained glass windows, I think, and it was really scary.

Joe Scarborough (7:07)

When you heard the shots, what went through your head?

Jay Gray (7:10)

I was like, the first one, I.

Weston (child witness) (7:12)

Was like, what is that?

Jay Gray (7:13)

I thought it was just something.

Weston (child witness) (7:14)

Then I heard it again. I just ran under the pew and then I covered my head.

Jay Gray (7:19)

My friend Vic like saved me though because he laid on top of me, but he got hit.

Joe Scarborough (7:25)

Your friend laid on top of you?

Jay Gray (7:27)

Yeah, and he got hit.

Mike Barnicle (7:29)

Is this something that you practiced before?

Weston (child witness) (7:32)

Yeah, we practice it like every month.

Jay Gray (7:36)

Or I don't know, but yeah, we've never practiced it in the church though.

Mika Brzezinski (7:43)

So that's Weston, a 10 year old 5th grader talking matter of factly about his friend Victor diving on top of him, taking a bullet and saving his life. And to Mike's point about how this has just been normalized as part of our culture. That kid is just speaking very matter of fact 10 years old about what happened inside a church pew and talking about the drills that we all know from our own children that are just a part of their life. We used to have the fire drills and you go, oh. Some do the alarm, you walk outside, you go back inside. They have active shooter drills. They now have slogans like run, hide, fight. Telling 10 year olds to run at first, then hide. And if you're confronted with a shooter fight, throw a chair at him, do whatever you can. This is just a normal part of their lives now.

Mike Barnicle (8:28)

And it's just obscene. I mean, you're right. That young boy was talking very matter of factly about something that he's used to. They asked the question, have you ever done this before? In School. I mean, before he goes, yeah, we practice in school, but not in church. And this is what, this is normal? No, there's nothing normal about this. And it's not a great mystery. It's just not a great mystery. We have laws that are on the book that continue to allow crackpots to go into gun stores, get high powered rifles and go and shoot up schools, shoot up churches, go shoot up country music concerts. And seems to me Washington is far too comfortable doing that, letting that happen. And all these excuses and all the calls for this, that or the other. The kids were hoping and praying. So hope, pray and act. Yeah, but Republicans won't do that third part in Congress. They just won't do the third part.

Jay Gray (9:35)

Now is not the time to talk about it. Joining us live.

Mike Barnicle (9:38)

It keeps happening. It keeps happening. I mean, how many mass shootings do we have? It keeps happening where crackpots get a hold of a gun and they have more power in their hand like in a Voldemort than police officers do outside. Is that really what they want?

Jay Gray (9:53)

This is an American problem. NBC News senior national correspondent Jay Gray joins us live from Minneapolis with more. Jay, what, what more details can you tell us?

Willie Geist (10:06)

Good morning, guys. Yeah, you're absolutely right.

Mike Barnicle (10:08)

And this is the church where it all took place. Just behind us here, still an active investigation going, still locked down by police. And so many in this neighborhood, this.

Willie Geist (10:17)

Church, this Catholic school and church, really.

Mike Barnicle (10:19)

The anchor of an established neighborhood here.

Willie Geist (10:22)

And so many here asking the same.

Mike Barnicle (10:25)

Questions and saying the same things that you're voicing this morning. We've already seen early in the morning.

Willie Geist (10:32)

Hours here, people just staring at the.

Mike Barnicle (10:33)

Church, trying to understand how this could happen again. And now in their community, kids gunned down in the pew of a church, the church just behind us here, what we are learning is that the federal agents also involved in this investigation, obviously the FBI looking at this as a potential hate crime or domestic terrorism. And so they are saying this is really just the beginning, guys, of what's going to be a long and a very drawn out investigation trying to figure out how and why it all happened. All right, NBC's Jay Gray reporting live this morning from Minneapolis. Thank you so much. You know, Rev, on the front of the New York Post, they say demonic and then they it's transgender maniac shoots up Catholic school. You know, they could very easily say time and time again, straight white maniac shoots up Catholic school or shoots up country music concert or shoots up this or shoots up that. I mean, I suppose some people try to distract from the ongoing mass slaughters that are going on of our children in schools and churches and across the country of people that go to country music concerts, of people who are sitting in pews at churches, at Baptist churches. I mean, we could go on and on and on. So, again, I suppose they can focus on whether it was transgender or straight, white male or whatever it was. Fact is, this is happening too much. We keep saying this is happening too much. And people will say who know that it's happening too much. Oh, we can't talk about it, Right? Well, when do you talk about it? When in the world. When in the world do you talk about it? For instance, last night, Kyiv got absolutely demolished by the Russians. When should we talk about that? Next week? No, we need to talk about it now.

Jay Gray (12:23)

Blame it all on Joe Biden.

Jackie Alemany (12:25)

And I think that that is that we are reaping. The Bible says that, that a man sows, he shall also reap. We're reaping that. We have sowed an indifference and, you know, maybe few hours of outrage, and then we go on with our lives without correcting what's going on.

Mike Barnicle (12:46)

Right.

Jackie Alemany (12:46)

We understand this shooter had writings against blacks, had writings against Jews, even writing against Donald Trump. None of that defines the fact that someone this sick, that on the first day of school, doing mass, they weren't even in class, they were in a religious practice, decides he's going to shoot innocent kids. And those of us that have children or grandchildren, that could have been any one of them. So rather than going with our day, we need to stop and say, how do we stop this? And force Republicans and Democrats to deal with this. This is a civilization crisis in America, and we need to deal with it like that.

Mike Barnicle (13:26)

It is. And it hits people at home, and it does hit. I mean, people sending their children to school on the first day. I. We have a good family friend who was tearing up on the first day about sending their daughter to kindergarten on the first day. And a lot of the concern, a lot of the angst were all the stories about these mass shootings. Again, something can be done. It's the only thing, only time you see one political party, oh, nothing can be done. You can't do anything because this wouldn't have helped that shooting. That wouldn't have helped this shooting. And yet these shootings continue. Whether it's in Nashville, whether it's here in Minneapolis, whether, again, it's in Texas, wherever it is, the mass shootings continue. And a lot of times, it's far too easy for people who have mental illness to walk into a gun shop and get an AR15 and have more power inside of a church or inside of a school in Uvalde than police officers outside just sitting there waiting. Marjory Stoneman Douglas just. They're sitting outside waiting for the shootings of stop. Because they're overpowered by the single AR15 that a madman got going in to a gun shop, you know, a day or two before.

David Ignatius (14:45)

You know, there's a couple of things here. There's a lot more than a couple of things going on here. But one item that is for sure is there are more guns in America. As the mayor of Minneapolis pointed out, there are more guns floating around the United States of America than there are people living in the United States of America. There's something truly warped about that idea. The other aspect that you just mentioned is we all think about taking our kids to school, holding their hands on their first day of school. But it's not just elementary schools. It's sending a kid off to college wondering if they're going to be safe. It's having a son or a daughter who works and goes out the door every day to the office because of the prevalence of guns. Now, are you telling me that in this country, supposedly the most civilized, greatest country in the world, there's no doubt about that, that we can't do anything about this? We've lived with it for at least a quarter of a century, much longer than that. What is it about this issue that prevents people from doing the common sense?

Mike Barnicle (15:48)

Well, by the way, it's not even the number of guns. It's the illegal guns. It's the ghost guns. It's the illegal transfer of guns. These people don't even want you to be able to monitor where AR15. There are people that can drive around, and they do drive around in neighborhoods, and they open up the back of their cars, and there are a lot of AR15s and other weapons of war in the back of their cars. And they sell it. One gang to another gang, one person to another person, one mentally deranged person to another mentally deranged person. And instead they go, oh, my uncle just wanted to add me a gun. And I would have to go through all of this. Yeah, yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe. Until we get our arms around the illegal transfer of guns. The fact that for most gun shootings only, what, 3, 4% of those gun shootings are actually shot by the people who legally own the guns. Yeah, maybe we should do that.

Mika Brzezinski (16:42)

And the shooter. Police tell us the shooter in this incident in Minneapolis had three guns, a rifle, a pistol, a shotgun, all purchased legally and all purchased recently. Police say they're also recovering more weapons at the home of the shooter. And we talk about warning signs. They now have been uncovered, entire YouTube channels from this person expressing violent thoughts, a sketch, a map, because it's believed that the person attended the school, mother worked at the school, knew the building, had sketched out maps. So you have a person who has shown, at least to people they know, violence. And no one intervenes between that violence, those threats of violence and the purchase of the gun. There just has to be a way to stop that person from having those guns.

Mike Barnicle (17:31)

And that's something Melania Trump's talking about this morning in the Post. She's talking about preemptive action. And that's what we need, preemptive action. You know, after 9, 11, they said if you see something, say something. That's what she's talking about. If you see something, say something. Preemptive action. Making it harder for 18 year olds to walk into gun shops, get AR15. I mean, making it harder for people to get weapons of war until they are screened. We're not talking about making them illegal, though. About two thirds of Americans would be fine taking making military styled weapons illegal. That's not even what we're talking about now. But if you're going to sell a weapon of war to an 18 or 19 or 20 or 21 year old, you know, actually figure out, as the first lady says, you know, let's do some preemptive screening to make sure that we're not going to have a tragedy like this happening.

Jay Gray (18:25)

Still ahead on Morning. Good Morning Joe. A lot to cover. CDC leadership is in disarray this morning after the Trump administration fired the agency's director hours after she refused to resign under pressure from the nation's top health officials. We'll dig into that shakeup spurred by HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Who's.

Mike Barnicle (18:47)

Literally going to war on vests. Same vaccines that he gave his children, that we gave our children, that everybody gave their children over the past 50 years and eradicated diseases which of course are starting up right now. How could Republicans have allowed this guy to get anywhere near the Department of hhs?

Jay Gray (19:11)

That's a good question.

Joe Scarborough (19:12)

Thank you.

Jay Gray (19:12)

Yeah, thank you.

Mike Barnicle (19:13)

Thank you, doctor. Thank you, doctor.

Jay Gray (19:15)

You're watching MORNING Joe. We'll be right back.

Willie Geist (19:19)

We need to be doing more than talking. It can't just be words. There needs to be action. And when we have seen school shooting after school shooting. We have seen churches get shot up by horrible actors. I think the impetus has to be on all of us as leaders to do a whole lot more. Don't just say this is about thoughts and prayers right now. These kids were literally praying. It was the first week of school. They were in a church. They should be able to go to.

Joe Scarborough (19:53)

School or church in peace without the.

Willie Geist (19:56)

Fear or risk of violence, and their parents should have the same kind of assurance.

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Weston (child witness) (20:31)

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Joe Scarborough (21:15)

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Jay Gray (21:48)

Past the hour. Washington, D.C. mayor Muriel Bowser says President Trump's federal law enforcement surge has led to a drop in crime in the city but is criticizing the presence of immigration agents and National Guard troops. At a press conference yesterday, Mayor Bowser thanked officers and reported an 87% decrease in carjackings and at a 15% drop in overall crime in the 20 days since the federal takeover began.

Joe Scarborough (22:19)

We greatly appreciate the surge of officers that enhance what MPD has been able to do in this city. We know that when carjackings go down, when use of gun goes down, when homicide or robbery go down, neighborhoods feel safer and are safer. So this surge has been important to us for that reason.

Jay Gray (22:47)

However, the mayor went on to explain the presence of masked immigration officers and National Guard soldiers from other states was not helping.

Joe Scarborough (22:57)

What we know is not working is a break in trust between police and community, especially with, with new federal partners in our community. We know having masked ICE agents in the community has not worked and National Guards from other states has not been an efficient use of those resources. I'm devastated by people living in fear. I think you know very clearly how I feel about our nation needing comprehensive immigration reform, about the Congress establishing a pathway to citizenship for hardworking people who came to this country for a better life and who are not criminals, who are law abiding. And I think when that question is finally answered, that's the only way to deal with this fear or to deal with these agencies going after law abiding people.

Mike Barnicle (24:06)

You know, rev, the mayor being extraordinarily pragmatic and I know that most of her constituents would like her to be yelling at Donald Trump right now, but extraordinary prag. Extraordinarily pragmatic, I think, and saying thank you so much. This has been helpful. Carjackings have gone down. We greatly appreciate it. Thank you for the partnership. However, these are the areas that are causing our residents some concern. I just think it's. I think that may be hopefully a way forward to forging a partnership, even if not. She's trying.

Jackie Alemany (24:45)

I think that's the real point. She's trying. She took the high road. Many of us, including me, took a very strong position and continue to about the takeovers and the projected takeovers. But she said, well, let's find some good in this. We already were seeing crime go down. This enhanced it. She gave them credit. It would be the, in my opinion, the best thing for the country for the president or the administration to reach out and have conversations with Mayor Bowser and Mayor Johnson in Chicago and others to see how we can blend because none of us want crime. And I think she set a tone that gives them the opportunity to say that we are not just being insensitive. We're not just doing something wrong. We're not just doing something to blackmail. We're willing to work together. If they don't, I think their silence will speak volumes.

Jay Gray (25:37)

Let's bring in from Washington, columnist and associate editor for the Washington Post, David Ignatius and MSNBC Washington correspondent and co host of the Weekend, Jackie Alemani, back from maternity to leave. Good to see you, Jackie. Welcome back.

Mike Barnicle (25:54)

Great to have you back, Jackie. David Ignatius is a Washington resident. You heard the mayor again, being very pragmatic, not working to make political points, but you got the sense she was doing her best to represent her city and to thank the president for the good that has been done, but try to have some sort of return to normalcy. What did you think, Joe?

Paul Feinbaum (26:16)

I was proud of our mayor. I think she is trying to walk a fine line. She is balancing the desire of everybody who lives in Washington to have a safer city against a concern about federalization, takeover of our law enforcement. What we need in Washington is community policing, as every major city needs. We need the police to be supported. They need more money. They need just in general, more public support. And that's consistently been her argument. We don't need masked people on the streets seizing people at their workplaces. That's not a path to a safer Washington. But I'm glad when I see people reaching out and saying, here's the good that can be done in a common cause to make our cities safer. That shouldn't be a partisan issue. Quite the opposite. So good on Mayor Boucher listening to and thinking about this terrible tragedy in Minneapolis. Response from Melania Trump is exactly right. We do need to take preemptive action. And as she has done on other issues, I hope she talks with her husband and says, President Trump, this is your moment. You can speak to the people who are refuse to limit these automatic weapons and do something about them. Trump is the rare person who could actually make gun control happen in a more emphatic way in our country and speak to this crisis that every week, every month we read tragic stories like this. But when I see people trying to work together, as Mayor Bowsher has just done, and I'm all for it.

Mika Brzezinski (28:09)

Jackie, let's talk about the reality on the ground right now in Washington, where you live. How is all this playing, these last couple of weeks of federal troops coming in, of Donald Trump talking the way he's talked about the city of now, Mayor Bowser saying, yeah, actually it has helped in some areas, but not in others. What's the reality of how this is playing in Washington. And then as we look beyond these 30 days that President Trump has, do you think it's extends further? He would need congressional approval to do that?

Joe Scarborough (28:36)

Yeah, Willie, I think that there, as David was saying, there is a resistance to sort of the performative nature of what Trump is doing in service of really what is a political message. But in the same vein, there's a recognition that when you're looking at the numbers, this is actually effective in some ways and that Democrats, at the end of the day, could be taken, taking a page from Bowser's approach to Trump and what the National Guard has done, despite the tactics that have been extremely unpopular amongst Democrats. But I think her coming out and exactly as David was saying and taking a conciliatory note and encouraging local and federal officials to work together in furtherance of lowering crime is a message that I think Democrats can be getting behind. It's what you guys were talking about yesterday. Whether or not the facts support this, voters feel a certain way and they don't want to be told that they, that when they're saying that they feel unsafe. They are worried about public safety, they're worried about their children going to school, they're worried about violence and gun safety issues, you know, a range of issues related to public safety. They don't want to be told by Democrats, Democrats, this, this, what you're feeling is not valid, that, that, you know, getting, getting talked at, with, with numbers and statistics instead of a recognition of, ok, what can we be doing better? And so what Bowser did yesterday, I think is, is from, especially from a messaging perspective, a positive step forward.

Mike Barnicle (30:13)

David Ignatius, we're about to move on to the CDC story, but before we go, I need to talk to you about what happened last night in Kyiv. Vladimir Putin, once again thumbing his nose at Donald Trump, decided to launch 600 attacks against the people of Kyiv. Slaughtered children, slaughtered the elderly. I think the British Consulate, based on reports I've seen, may have been damaged. But instead of choosing the negotiating table, they chose to continue slaughtering young children. And again, this comes at a time when everybody's pushing for a ceasefire and it comes at a time when Donald Trump said he's going to wait to see what Vladimir Putin's answers. It is here one of the biggest attacks, the continued slaughter of children and kill Kyiv. It's insane that, you know, Putin is the largest kidnapper in the world, the largest hostage taker in the world. I'm not sure what else the President's waiting for.

Paul Feinbaum (31:24)

So, Joe, you're right. This is Putin's answer to Trump's pleas for peace to bomb Kyiv. Even harder. I've written a piece that will be published in a few hours that says that the time for security guarantees is right now. It's not in the future after some agreement. It's right now, when Ukrainians are cowering at night, facing nightly drone and missile attacks. I'd like to see our European allies in the United States moved to say right now, as long as these negotiations go on, as long as we're not at peace yet, we're going to provide guarantees that the civilian population of Ukraine will not be terrorized on the way to an eventual settlement. But I do think this situation should be intolerable, most of all to President Trump, who has been correct in saying through the campaign and through his presidency, this bloodbath has to stop. It isn't stopping. So what next? And I think the answer to what next is to put more teeth in our promise to protect Ukraine and its people. I'm talking about the front. The front line is going to continue. I'm talking about the cities of Ukraine and the ordinary people who are living there. But it's time to rethink this.

Mike Barnicle (32:58)

And make no mistake, Mika, the targets last night were not military targets. They were innocent people. They were innocent children. They were innocent grandparents. They were the ones, Mike, who got slaughtered.

David Ignatius (33:13)

Well, you know, Joe, that's a critical point that I don't think receives enough attention, and I'd like to ask David about it, about that exact point. This is not World War II bombing, David, as we all know. This is not 30,000ft upstairs and bombs scattered all, all across the city randomly. This is targeted. The drones are targeted. They know where the drones are going. They know that the drones are headed for civilian shelters and workplaces and residences. That's a war crime. Why don't we hear more about this?

Paul Feinbaum (33:47)

We should hear more. The bombing in Kyiv, when I've been in the city, has tended to be in. In suburban neighborhoods. For a while. It was targeted against quasi military targets, but that's changed. It's getting closer to the city center. The weapons that are being used are much more terrorizing. You know, I've been with Ukrainians as they just sat through dinner as the sirens went off, because, you know, there's a fatalism that's developed, but we do need to look at the victims, especially as we head toward another winter in which Russia will target the heating infrastructure. It will try to freeze Ukrainians out of their homes. It will try to create a kind of desperation that we just need to see and feel. But, Mike, you're absolutely right. This increasingly involves the ordinary people of Ukraine. And we need, we need to feel that in our gut.

Jay Gray (34:51)

The Washington Post, David Ignatius, thank you very much. Of course, we'll be following this. Also, when we come back, President Trump fires or at least tries to fire. The director of the CDC will have.

Mike Barnicle (35:03)

That story, I think is RFK Jr. That's the person.

Jay Gray (35:08)

RFK Jr. Put him in place. I think it was all Republicans who voted her in. Well, we'll talk about it when we come back.

Mike Barnicle (35:15)

Way to go, Brownie.

Weston (child witness) (35:17)

Hey there, it's Kelly Ripa. And if you've been listening to my podcast, we are knee deep in season three. And if you haven't heard it, it's time to get on board. After years of interviewing celebs on camera, I finally get to bring you the real conversations that take place when the cameras aren't rolling. Where else are you going to hear Michelle Obama talk about keeping her girls out of Page Six? Hilaria Baldwin's hilarious reaction to Alec running for office, or Jeremy Renner's lucid hallucinations about Jamie Foxx? Nowhere else. It's raw, it's honest, and best of all, it's off camera. And believe me, that's where you get the good stuff. So download. Let's talk off camera with Kelly Ripa now, wherever you get your podcasts.

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Jay Gray (36:56)

38 past the hour. The White House says it has fired CDC director Sue Susan Monterrez less than one month after she was confirmed by the Senate. One month.

Joe Scarborough (37:06)

That was quick.

Jay Gray (37:07)

It follows a dramatic back and forth in which Monterrez was pressured to leave the agency after reportedly clashing with Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Over vaccine policy, but she refused to resign. The Washington Post reports Monarz was pressed for days over whether she would support rescinding certain approvals for coronavirus vaccines. Then, in a social media post last night, the Department of Health and Human Services announced Monarz was no longer the director of the cdc. But just hours later, her lawyers responded, saying she had not resigned or been fired, writing in part, quote, when she refused to rubber stamp unscientific, reckless directives and fire dedicated health experts, she chose protecting the public over serving a political agenda. For that, she has been targeted. She will not resign. The White House responded with a statement formally terminating Monterey's arguing she is not aligned with the president's agenda of making America healthy again.

Mike Barnicle (38:16)

So wait, I'm confused, because he loves warp speed. Donald Trump's agenda is to undermine the vaccines. Donald Trump's one of his greatest achievements.

Jay Gray (38:28)

Operation warp speed for making the vaccine available to America and opening up America.

Mike Barnicle (38:34)

Again and the world. But wait, so the White House is now against that?

Mika Brzezinski (38:38)

He was touting it two days ago at that Cabinet meeting.

Cheryl Gay Stolberg (38:40)

Well, because it was a big deal.

Mika Brzezinski (38:42)

How great it was because of it, you can argue.

Mike Barnicle (38:44)

And now people are getting fired for agreeing with the president.

Jay Gray (38:46)

I don't get it. That's like. That's chaos.

Mike Barnicle (38:50)

Wow.

Mika Brzezinski (38:51)

So lawyers for Monterey say this is legally deficient, that she remains as CDC director. At least four top officials at the agency have announced their resignations. One saying he no longer can serve in the role because of the ongoing weaponization of public health by Bobby Kennedy Jr joining us now, Washington correspondent for the New York Times, covering the intersection of health policy and politics, Cheryl Gay Stolberg. Cheryl, good morning. So this is all a little bit confusing. Can you kind of take us back through this and remind our viewers that, yes, the CDC director was confirmed by this Republican Senate, that this was not a Biden holdover. This isn't somebody that they opposed a minute ago and now do. So what's going on here?

Cheryl Gay Stolberg (39:38)

Well, a lot of chaos, as I think Mika said. Yes, this CDC director, Dr. Susan Menaras, was confirmed by a Republican Senate. She's an appointment of President Trump. She serves at the pleasure of the president. Kennedy obviously wants her out. They've been tussling back and forth for days. My sources tell me that Kennedy summoned her to his office on Monday and said either she had to clear out the top ranks of CDC leadership and accept their advisory committee's recommendations on vaccines or she was going to be fired. She refused to go. She called Senator Bill Cassidy, the chairman of the Senate Health Committee. He in turn called Kennedy. Kennedy was angry. Kennedy summoned her back on Tuesday and said, you've got to go. And the long and the short of it is the White House now says she's been fired. I just updated my story because shortly after midnight, her lawyers said that the, the firing is, quote, legally deficient, that she serves at the pleasure of the president. Only President Trump can fire her. He hasn't made an announcement. So I think the ball is now in President Trump's court. I'm going to be interested in seeing what is he going to say today. Is he going to come out and fire this woman that he picked and stand with Bobby Kennedy or not?

Mika Brzezinski (41:02)

So, Cheryl, let's be specific about this point of conflict and the vaccine that Bobby Kennedy Jr. And others want to get rid of. And doctor, the CDC director appears to be defending. What are we talking about here? Which vaccines?

Cheryl Gay Stolberg (41:17)

Well, I think we're talking certainly about coronavirus vaccines, which we saw yesterday the FDA limited recommendations on. They approved the new vaccine, but they narrowed down who can take it. Is it's unclear what other vaccines we might be talking about. And I say that because we also know that the secretary has said there will be a forthcoming report on the causes of autism. And as you and I know, the secretary has embraced the theory, which has been discredited, that autism is caused by vaccines. We're all waiting for that report. It's being written by someone who has also embraced the vaccine autism theory. And so who knows what is coming next. And it may well be that their clash, his clash with Susan Minares is in anticipation of that forthcoming report.

Joe Scarborough (42:13)

Cheryl, I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit more about the relationship between Trump and Bobby Kennedy. I mean, we shouldn't be surprised here. RFK has dedicated his life to medical misinformation and propagated a lot of false, false information with regards to vaccines and autism. But we know that Trump, at least in the last presidency, was pro vaccine, according to some of his advisors, and did get behind Operation Warp Speed. Why has he sort of allowed RFK to stomp all over this legacy and push forward with this mandate?

Cheryl Gay Stolberg (42:52)

So a couple of things about that. President Trump has actually long expressed the view that vaccines cause autism. As far back as 2007, he had a fundraiser for an autism awareness groups. He's said repeatedly on social media and in a 2015 presidential debate that he thinks that kids are getting too many vaccines, you know, and that, you know, autism is the result. But separate from that, he has a very unique relationship with Bobby Kennedy. Bobby Kennedy is a very unique cabinet member. Right. First of all, he's a Kennedy. Trump is enamored with, you know, the Kennedy name. And Kennedy also brings his own following to Trump. Kennedy helped Trump get elected. He merged his campaign with Trump's and he brought a whole movement, his so called Maha movement. And I think Trump is very well aware of that and that a part of his base, a distinct part of his base is the MAGA base. And that is different from the MAGA base. And so I think that's why we see Trump give Kennedy, you know, a fair amount of leeway. He said he was going to let Kennedy go wild on health. Trump doesn't really care that much about health. And so he'd just as soon have Kennedy take it over. So, you know, we'll see.

Mike Barnicle (44:18)

All right, New York Times Washington correspondent Sheryl Gay Solberg, thank you as always for your reporting. Greatly appreciated. It's fascinating. So as you said, I guess Kennedy thinks he helped get Donald Trump elected much in the same way Elon Musk thinks he helped get Trump elected. So I suppose Bobby Kennedy's totally fine with trashing what a lot of people say may be Donald Trump's top legacy, and that is Operation Warp Speed. So he's trashing it. We'll see if Donald Trump's fine with him trashing his top legacy.

Jay Gray (44:55)

We'll be following this. All right, MSNBC Washington correspondent Jackie Alemany, thank you as well. We'll be watching the weekend. You're back right here on msnbc. Soon to be Ms. Now. Okay, we got the mugs.

Mike Barnicle (45:10)

Let's just do it.

Jay Gray (45:11)

Can't we just do it?

Mike Barnicle (45:12)

Yeah, we've got it. We got it right here.

Jay Gray (45:14)

Let's go.

Mike Barnicle (45:15)

Come on.

Jay Gray (45:16)

All right, now, coming up, ESPN's Paul Feinbaum joins us to preview the college football regular season kickoff. We'll go through the big matchups slated for this weekend as well as the early favorites for this season's playoff. Morning Joe will be right back.

Willie Geist (45:54)

Kansas State rushes five back, throwing to the end zone.

Mike Barnicle (45:57)

And it's caught for a touchdown. Dominic Overbeat able to haul it in the first score of 2025.

Mika Brzezinski (46:08)

College football is back. That's Iowa State touchdown against Kansas State on Saturday, marking the very first touchdown of the 2025 college football season. Cyclones beat the Wildcats 2421 in Dublin, Ireland, the annual overseas game that kicks off the season. Tonight, Boise State takes on the University of South Florida at Raymond James Stadium in Tampa. All of it, though, prelude to this weekend's marquee matchup. Number one ranked Texas visiting the Horseshoe to play the Ohio State Buckeyes will mark the beginning of the first full season for Longhorns quarterback Arch Manning as the starter. He is the nephew of NFL greats Peyton and Eli Manning. Joining us now, the only man to talk to ahead of the first weekend or any weekend of college football, ESPN commentator, the great Paul Feinbaum. Paul, it is so great to have you with us this morning. What a slate we've got. You got Texas at Ohio State, Alabama at fsu, LSU at Clemson, and of course, the Buccaneers of Charleston Southern. Come call into Nashville at the newly renovated First Bank Stadium. Diego Pavia and company will be ready, but let's start with Texas. What are you looking at on Saturday?

Willie Geist (47:19)

PAUL first of all, Willie, this is one of the biggest college football games we've ever had to open a season. It's one versus three, and the Arch Manning aspect of it is transcendent. I don't think college football has perhaps ever in the modern era seen anyone like him. Tim Tebow, when he came on, was much anticipated, but he didn't have the credentials and the family lineage that Arch does, and he's handled it so well, which is understandable as two uncles are in the television business. They're pretty good NFL hall of Famers as well. But there's such a combustion of aspect to it, and if it wasn't big enough, it's also we'll talk about it in a second, the final headgear of Lee Corso's amazing career. He is 90 years old and this is his farewell. It's hard to get any better.

Mika Brzezinski (48:10)

Yeah, he's what a legend he is, Lee Corso. And given so much, it's been so fun to watch Herb street and Fowler and those guys talk about him and remember him ahead of this last game. Let's talk a little bit about Arch Manning because his story, not just his lineage, but also the fact that he kind of sat and waited his turn, which we've been talking about recently. In this era of nil, he could have jumped anywhere he wanted and become the starter the next day. But he kind of sat and learned and waited and the glimpses we have gotten of him. Paul different from Eli and Peyton, with all due respect, this kid can run the football, too. When he gets Outside the pocket. He's good there as well.

Willie Geist (48:50)

He reminds a few of us old timers of his grandfather, Archie Manning, who played at Ole Miss in the, in the late 60s. He was a fantastic running quarterback and that's exactly what, what arch is. And on, on top of all that, it's, it's the fact that he could have left for a lot of money, but he stayed. And quite frankly, Willie, Texas would have been better with him last year than Quinn Ewers. Yours got them to the semifinals and really within three yards on the goal line of perhaps tying Ohio State in that, in that cotton ball. But, but ultimately he stuck around. And if you go back into the 90s, there's another guy named Manning who stuck around. He could have been the number one pick in the draft. He came back in 97 for his final season at Tennessee. It does run in the family.

Mike Barnicle (49:36)

So, Paul, let's talk about the second big game, the game you and I will be watching closely on Saturday. That is Alabama. What do you see there?

Willie Geist (49:44)

I think it's going to be a fairly easy win for Alabama, but. Not to worry you, Joe, but, but Alabama's had a couple of injuries lately that, that do concern me. Their top running back is out. Their top defensive tackle is out. And do I need to remind you of Caitlin DeBoer on the road three times last year? As, as on an actual road game and neutral sites, he managed to, to lose a double digit favorite game. So that's my only concern. Beyond that, Florida State is a sorry program.

Mike Barnicle (50:15)

Well, I'm wondering what you're telling. I'm wondering what you're. Boy, you have just so doomed us to defeat. Not being worried and saying they're a bad program. You never do that. A couple. And I'm being serious here. Does DeBoer have the fire in his gut that's necessary to win in the sec? Because I sure didn't see it last year.

Willie Geist (50:36)

I'll spare you the cliches. I haven't seen it either. He says this is going to be a different, different season. It's a reset. But Joe, you play football. You can't change the culture after one season. It doesn't work. So you better hope that he has the right players. I, I do like the quarterback, Ty Simpson. I think he's an upgrade over Jalen Milro who drove everyone crazy last year. He was the best runner on the team, but he had never learned exactly how to pass the ball.

Mike Barnicle (51:02)

Yeah, well, you know, a lot of people are always saying, oh, Jalen's going to do better this year because he's having fun. And that's what I kept hearing, having fun. Nobody had fun under Saban. Anybody that's played football in the Deep south understands there's nothing fun about playing football in the sec. Nothing fun about even playing high school football. It's about war, whether it's on Friday nights or Saturday. I have a final question. It's a serious question. It's inside baseball question for you, too. The one thing I noticed, you know, people figured out that Milro couldn't read defenses, so defenses were to rush in eight guys and we had an offensive scheme that would, like, would throw, you know, four. Four guys deep. Have we learned, do we have an offensive scheme this year where they'll actually throw the ball in the flat, where they'll do slant passes where you'll be able, you'll be able to have a safety? We didn't have that last year. I, it was, it really seriously was the worst offensive scheme I have seen in a major college football football field in my lifetime. Do we have a. Actually a better plan forward this year?

Willie Geist (52:07)

Mika and Willie, I have missed this in the off season. The. The answer, Joe, is yes, and it's very simple. The name is Ryan Grub. Ryan Grubb was at Seattle last year in the NFL. He was with Deborah when he played for the national championship. And finally Nick Saban tried to hire him a couple of years ago for what turned out to be his final season. And it's too bad he didn't because Tommy Reeves was. Was another disaster. I still haven't gotten over that final play he called against Michigan in the Rose bowl in overtime. It's the worst play I've ever seen. So, yes, Ryan Grub is an outstanding offensive coordinator. I think that will be the difference. Joe, I'm, I'm up. I'm upbeat. I really believe it looks like a 10 and 2 team and a good run in the playoffs. But I know you're. You're a little skeptical. I understand it.

Mike Barnicle (52:55)

I'm skeptical until DeBoer can actually prove Willie that he knows how to coach in sec.

Mika Brzezinski (52:59)

We'll see. He's going to get his chance coming up in two days from now. So, Paul, before we let you go, how about some other teams for people thinking about this season to keep an eye on? We know about all the big boys. Ohio State opens at home against Texas. If they clear that hurdle, they've got a nice pass. What are you looking at in terms of a team who could make a Run deep into these playoffs.

Willie Geist (53:17)

Keep your eye on the LSU Clemson game on Saturday night. I think it's the best game of the day. You have the two. Two of the best quarterbacks in the country in Klebnik and Nussmeier. And Clemson is back. They took a couple of years off after playing Alabama nearly every year for the national championship. Adabo Sweeney has really put a tremendous defensive line together. And Willie, one more thing. I had the opportunity two weeks ago to interview Diego Pavia, the quarterback at Vanderbilt. And I asked him what the outlook was, and he said, we're going to win the national championship. And I look straight to the camera and I said. I said, are you. Are you joking? He said, he looked around, I don't see anybody cracking jokes. I thought he was going to come through and grab my neck. He's deadly serious about that.

Mika Brzezinski (54:02)

He doesn't lack for confidence. And one thing I will say, I was in Nashville before the Alabama game. We went to the game where Vanderbilt upset Alabama, and I got to talk to him before the game. And with that same deadpan, that straight face, I said, how you feeling? He said, we're getting ready to shock everybody but ourselves. We know we can do it. And then we did it. I don't know about the national championship, but I like our team.

Mike Barnicle (54:23)

Okay, that's exciting.

Jay Gray (54:25)

Commentator Paul Feinbaum, thank you so much for being on the show this morning. We appreciate it.

Joe Scarborough (54:30)

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