Fed Governor Lisa Cook to sue over Trump firing

Summary

Morning Joe – August 27, 2025

Fed Governor Lisa Cook to Sue Over Trump Firing

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Episode Overview

This episode of Morning Joe, hosted by Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski, dives into the major political story of the day: President Trump’s attempt to fire Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook over unsubstantiated mortgage fraud allegations and her vow to sue in response. The discussion unfolds into broader themes of presidential overreach, the independence of institutions like the Federal Reserve, the use of crime as a campaign issue, and challenges faced by Democrats in countering the current administration's aggressive tactics. With a mix of wonky policy talk, sharp political analysis, and characteristic banter, the panel also examines the president's recent moves regarding the National Guard and crime, as well as the political implications for both parties heading into the midterms.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. The Lisa Cook Firing: Independence of the Fed Under Threat

(07:52 – 13:23)

• President Trump announces his intention to fire Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook, citing vague mortgage fraud allegations. Cook, who has not been charged with any crime, plans to sue.
• Trump’s attempt hinges on a non-specific referral letter, which legal experts, including Cook’s lawyer Abby Lowell, insist is “without factual or legal basis.”
• The Fed issues a statement defending the independence and legal protections around removal of its governors, affirming that such protections are “a vital safeguard” and that it will abide by the courts’ decision.

Notable Analysis & Quotes:

• Joe Scarborough (09:44): “It really, once again comes down to the courts, and I find it hard to believe that any court is going to go along with the president’s decision to fire somebody, again, for clear political reasons.”

• David French (10:30): “The Supreme Court has already signaled... that it views the Fed differently than it views other agencies... I find it very difficult to believe that the court would allow a firing to go forward on nothing more than what we’ve seen so far. There’s no adjudication, there’s no finding of guilt, there’s very little evidence in the public square.”

• The Wall Street Journal’s warning about politicizing central banks is cited, with past examples (Erdogan in Turkey, Nixon in the ‘70s) offered as cautionary tales.

• The larger danger: If presidents can remove Fed governors on a whim, monetary policy could become just another arm of short-term politics, leading to instability and inflation.

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2. Crime, the National Guard, and Presidential Overreach

(23:15 – 36:13)

• Trump predicts crime will dominate the midterms and justifies ongoing deployment of the National Guard in D.C., floating similar action in Chicago and possibly New York if governors request it.
• He asserts broad authority over the use of federal power for local crime control, which the panel quickly debunks.
• Local officials, including New York's Governor Hochul, are resisting federal presence, emphasizing that police resources – not federal troops – are what’s needed.
• The conversation pivots to a comparison with Nixon’s “law and order” strategy in 1968, and the historical use and misuse of the National Guard in American cities.

Notable Analysis & Quotes:

• Joe Scarborough (25:25): “You can’t do anything you want to do. You’re one third of the constitutional government.”
• Jonathan Lemire (31:01): “It’s a misuse of the National Guard. You insert them into a city where... they don’t know the neighborhood... they’re wasting their time really.”
• Joy Reid (32:23): “They need resources and they need to have a union with community. People in the community more than anybody want to see crime down... but we do not need this interposition and nullification by the President.”
• Panel highlights the harm in deploying untrained National Guard for policing and the need for community-rooted, appropriately trained police.

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3. Democrats: Challenges Countering Trump’s Narrative

(17:30 – 20:39; 36:13 – 48:59)

• Democrats are criticized for lacking a clear, effective message to counter Trump’s tough-on-crime stance. Voters are unsatisfied with generalized calls to “fight” or symbolic acts like lengthy filibusters.
• Internal divisions within the party and fears over past government shutdown blame complicate their response.
• Key Democratic voters are asking for more visible, tangible pushback, but with limited leverage as a minority, much of the response is focused on raising awareness.
• The population continues to feel unsafe, regardless of improvements in crime statistics, and Democrats’ failure to speak to those anxieties is seen as politically costly.

Notable Analysis & Quotes:

• Rachel Bay (38:25): “You would think Democrats would sort of use the opportunity to say, look, we’re not soft on crime... But I’ve got to say, you’re not seeing a lot of leaders, and from a purely political standpoint, Donald Trump on this issue believes he has the upper hand.”
• Joe Scarborough (40:40): “You can’t just say Donald Trump’s an authoritarian and be scared about it... What we need are more cops on the street... an environment that will allow you to walk down the subway and feel safe.”
• David French (43:07): “You have to use the truth to blow up his narrative... people forget he was president in 2020. And when crime really exploded... it happened in 2020 in his presidency.”
• Joy Reid (48:04): “You have to address the feeling of not being secure... What Democrats ought to be saying is: yes, crime has been a problem, we’ve successfully done this, but we need more help.”

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4. Loyalty and Subservience in the Cabinet

(00:37 – 03:35; 56:03 – 57:25)

• The hosts play and mock an extended, effusive round of Cabinet praise for President Trump. Scarborough lampoons the “degrading” nature of the spectacle.
• The panel interprets this as a feature – not a bug – of Trump’s leadership style, contrasting the current Cabinet’s sycophancy with traditional “truth to power” relationships in previous administrations.
• The unique threat is that removing dissent from the highest levels of government leaves the president unchecked, driving more extreme action.

Notable Quotes:

• Joe Scarborough (02:43): “I’m having the time of my life saying things that degrade me as a man. Really?”
• Jonathan Lemire (57:01): “He didn’t want anybody but true believers. That’s the entire point, is to not have someone tell him no.”

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5. Crime as a Campaign Issue: Statistical Reality vs. Public Perception

(39:55 – 47:42)

• Polls suggest most Americans believe crime is as bad or worse than recent years, despite improved statistics. The subjective sense of security – especially against low-level disorder or personal intimidation – matters more than hard data.
• There’s bipartisan agreement on the need for more community-rooted police, but a lack of effective communication on successes or new plans by Democratic leaders.
• Republican narrative leans into public anxieties, while Democrats are seen as either ignoring or ineffectively rebutting them.

Notable Quotes:

• Joe Scarborough (46:51): “If people don’t feel it, it ain’t true. I mean, if people don’t feel it, as Henry Kissinger said, in politics, perception’s reality.”
• David French (43:56): “Until they [Democrats] make public disorder a priority, a lot of their arguments are going to fall flat.”

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Memorable Moments & Banter

• Taylor Swift Wedding Banter: Lighthearted speculation on the cultural impact of Swift’s wedding, used to offset the show’s otherwise heavy subject matter (04:19 – 06:06).
  • “This is my royal wedding. Honestly, there is no comparison.” – Natalie Jackson (06:01)
• Cracker Barrel Satire: Panel jests about MAGA supporters’ focus on the return of a classic Cracker Barrel menu item, mocking misplaced priorities (06:14 – 07:46).
  • “If that’s the downfall of Western civilization, well, it really wasn’t in such good standing anyway, was it?” – Joe Scarborough (06:49)
• Personal Stories of Security: Joy Reid’s childhood memory of multiple locks on the door, highlighting the deep emotional weight of public safety debates (48:04).
• Cabinet Groveling: Scarborough and team lampoon the over-the-top style of flattery shown in Trump’s Cabinet, drawing laughter and disgust.

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Fed Governor Cook’s Lawsuit & Fed Independence – 07:52–14:23
• Cabinet Praise & Loyalty Dynamics – 00:37–03:35, 56:03–57:25
• Crime/National Guard/Presidential Authority – 23:15–36:13
• Democratic Strategy on Crime – 17:30–20:39, 36:13–48:59
• Crime Statistics vs. Perception – 39:55–47:42

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Episode Summary

This Morning Joe episode opens with satire, quickly transitioning to the core controversy: President Trump’s attempt to remove Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook based on vague accusations of mortgage fraud. Legal and journalistic guests analyze the fragility of institutional independence, arguing that Cook’s removal represents a dangerous precedent. Trump’s pushes for National Guard deployment in cities, justified by crime and predicated on inflated personal authority, open a wider conversation about executive overreach and the encroachment on states’ rights.

Panelists dissect Democratic weaknesses: muted, divided responses, a failure to communicate concrete solutions, and reliance on crime statistics over visceral issues of public safety. Throughout, the show maintains an urgent, sometimes exasperated tone regarding the erosion of democratic guardrails and the importance of expert, non-political governance. Humor and cultural references—like Taylor Swift’s “royal wedding” and Cracker Barrel nostalgia—provide needed levity without detracting from the show’s core alarm about authoritarian drift and political dysfunction.

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Concluding Thought

As the hosts warn, the intersection of political expediency, institutional hollowing, and unresolved anxieties about safety and authority threaten to reshape American democracy. The episode urges vigilance: from the courts in protecting legal norms, from Congress in asserting its role, and from party leaders in finding real, resonant answers to voters’ fears.

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For further coverage and debate, full episodes and additional resources are available at MSNBC.com and wherever you get your podcasts.

Transcript

[Joe Scarborough]

If you could hear love, what would it sound like?

[Joy Reid]

Son, can we talk about your drinking?

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah, Dad, I think we should.

[Ali Vitali]

Helping those closest to you think about their excessive drinking.

[Joe Scarborough]

Maybe that's what love sounds like.

[Ali Vitali]

[e-mail] An OHA initiative avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start.

[Joe Scarborough]

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[Ali Vitali]

Paint finish and satin or what that.

[Joe Scarborough]

Clunking sound from your dryer is. With thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app download today. Sir, as we've said, very often economic security is national security. And our country has never been so secure, thanks to you. You have brought us back from the edge. You have the overwhelming mandate from the American people. You're restoring confidence in government.

[Mike Barnacle]

Thank you, sir.

[David French]

As we approach Labor Day weekend here.

[Joe Scarborough]

This is just such a great opportunity.

[Natalie Jackson]

Really, to recognize your leadership as a true champion for working people.

[Joe Scarborough]

Well, Mr. President, first of all, thank.

[Natalie Jackson]

You for the opportunity to work for you.

[Joe Scarborough]

You made this country safe.

[Natalie Jackson]

You opened up the economy. You enforced the law. Now people can get up and provide.

[Mike Barnacle]

For their families and go to work every and be confident in that.

[Rachel Bay]

Mr. President, I invite you to see your big beautiful face on a banner.

[Mike Barnacle]

In front of the Department of Labor.

[Rachel Bay]

Because you are really the transformational president.

[Mike Barnacle]

Of the American worker.

[Joe Scarborough]

Thank you for saving college football, by the way.

[Mike Barnacle]

We're all very grateful.

[Natalie Jackson]

The country just feels different.

[Joy Reid]

You are going to save the whales.

[Joe Scarborough]

On the east coast because of this. Mr. President, working for this government for you is the greatest honor of my life. I tell it to everybody, and I really do feel that way. And I thank you. And there's only one thing I wish for that that noble committee finally gets its act together and realizes that you are the single finest candidate since the noble piece, this noble award, was ever talked about to receive that reward. Mr. President, it's pretty great to celebrate Labor Day with a builder who loves labor, who loves the men and women who have built this country, the people that that sweat, that have great skills. This is the greatest cabinet working for the greatest president. And I just want to say thank you. I'm having the time of my life.

[Willie Geist]

Working for you, Mr. President.

[Joe Scarborough]

Thank you. I'm having the time of my life saying things that degrade me as a man. Really? Really. It continues. This is like part two I.

[Ali Vitali]

You know, at what point does personal pride come in?

[Joe Scarborough]

None of that.

[Ali Vitali]

A lot of the guys we just heard from, there are these sort of self described masters of the universe, many of them in Wall Street.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah.

[Ali Vitali]

The maga ethos of masculinity, alpha male, all that. You just don't find more beta behavior around the table.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yesterday, I think the ones that talk about beta males, rev, I mean, my lord it is. When Jesus told us to be humble, he wasn't talking about that. That is so unbecoming for any man.

[Joy Reid]

I searched the Bible. I can't find kings in the Bible that needed this kind of glory. I mean, you have to ask yourself the mentality of the president that he requires this or even allows this. I mean, I wouldn't even allow it because it talks to your insecurity and self doubt that you have to have this. It's really sa.

[Joe Scarborough]

Know who deserves that type of praise? Do you know who deserves it? Willie, right there. Come on, baby. Come on. T. Swift getting married, huh? And it's on the New York Post as well. Right there. So adorable. All very big news. I. I think the biggest fan we have here, Willie, is Ali Vitale.

[Ali Vitali]

Oh, yeah, she's a true Ali. Dyed in the wool.

[Mike Barnacle]

Were you excited?

[Joe Scarborough]

How. How excited?

[Ali Vitali]

Where?

[Natalie Jackson]

Yeah, the number of people who texted me yesterday to make sure I was okay. Someone said to me, this is going to be a lot for Ali Vitale. And I was like, is the brand too strong?

[Joe Scarborough]

Like.

[Natalie Jackson]

But honestly, like, there's so much news that we can't be joyful about that this is just like a purely good, fun, happy story. And I mean, I'm thrilled. I feel like we saw her on the Higher Heights podcast and that was a real moment for Swifties to see her blending her brand with her partner's brand. Brand. We have never seen her do that before. And there's something really pure about the so High School song that they posted this with. I mean, it feels like all of the songs that she sung about love and like the depths of despair it can bring you to are now just at the highest point that they can be. I mean, I'm thrilled.

[Mike Barnacle]

That's nice.

[Joe Scarborough]

That is so nice. Wow. I like them together. I do too. Day one.

[Ali Vitali]

I've liked their thing like she. Her previous relationships, it's been. And we understand why, very private and doesn't talk about it ever. And they've just like lived out the open. Open. She's kind of just said, you know what? I'm out here with this guy. He's not shy about it. I like them together. I'm very happy for them, I think.

[Joe Scarborough]

Nice open. He was wearing his little fish. Yeah. Bucket hat.

[Willie Geist]

Bucket hat.

[Ali Vitali]

Yeah.

[Joe Scarborough]

Multicolored now.

[Ali Vitali]

Good for them.

[Joe Scarborough]

It might be the biggest wedding in pop culture since. What royal wedding. Do we want to go all the way back and maybe Lady Diana and.

[Mike Barnacle]

I mean, Prince?

[Ali Vitali]

No, Ally. Allie's our expert.

[Joe Scarborough]

Ally. What do you think?

[Natalie Jackson]

This is my royal wedding. Honestly, there is no comparison.

[Mike Barnacle]

Well. Oh, my God. Okay. Well, shall we get to the news?

[Ali Vitali]

I think we already have.

[Mike Barnacle]

I feel we do. This is the news.

[Joe Scarborough]

Well, Cracker Barrel, they changed. Western civilization has been saved. Yeah, they got Uncle Rufus or Herschel. Herschel or whoever they got back up on their. So never mind the fact that they're socializing. Everything else. A logo for a regional restaurant has been changed back to what it's been. Because that right there, that, according to a lot of Mag supporters, was the downfall of Western as a civilization. If that's the downfall of Western civilization, well, it really wasn't in such good standing anyway, was it?

[Joy Reid]

No. To me, with all that's going on, we are concerned about Uncle Herschel.

[Mike Barnacle]

Uncle Herschel.

[Joy Reid]

And let's not even mention that most of the menu, which I used to eat there sometimes, is not healthy.

[Mike Barnacle]

Could they change that?

[Joy Reid]

Yeah.

[Joe Scarborough]

I mean, no, you don't change it.

[Mike Barnacle]

Rev, you and I can't go to Cracker Barrel.

[Joe Scarborough]

Not at all.

[Joy Reid]

No, not at all.

[Ali Vitali]

Let me just say George Geist and I had a meal at Cracker Barrel a few weeks ago. Just outstanding.

[Mike Barnacle]

Come on.

[Ali Vitali]

Everywhere you get the meatloaf, a couple of sides, they keep refilling your Dr. Pepper.

[Joe Scarborough]

And I go, matt, could I have gravy on gravy? Oh, yeah. I just. I want gravy on gravy. Yeah.

[Joy Reid]

And then you run around the Cracker Barrel restaurant.

[Mike Barnacle]

Yeah, Like a thousand times.

[Joe Scarborough]

Usually not feeling like I eat a Cracker Barrel. You know, sometimes I sneak in a crystal burger or a Whataburger, and I put it underneath. Then I get the gravy on top.

[Ali Vitali]

A little Chick Fil A for dessert.

[Joe Scarborough]

And call it a day. Couple of Mr. Pibs and a BC powder helps it go down.

[Mike Barnacle]

All right, seven minutes in. Let me get to the news. Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook is fighting President Trump's attempts to fire her, vowing yesterday to file a lawsuit. This just one day after the President said he would remove Cook from the Board of Governors over allegations of mortgage fraud. Cook's lawyer, Abby Lowell, said in a statement that Trump has no authority to remove the governor, adding, quote, his attempt to fire her space solely on a referral letter lacks any factual or legal basis. Cook has not been charged with any crime. The central bank also weighed in on this issue for the first time yesterday, noting that, quote, long tenures and removal protections for governors serve as a vital safeguard, while adding the Fed will abide by any court decision. President Trump was asked about Cook's lawsuit and the Fed's response during his Cabinet meeting yesterday.

[Willie Geist]

She seems to have had an infraction, and she can't have an infraction, especially that infraction, because she's in charge of, if you think about it, mortgages. And we need people that are 100% above board. And it doesn't seem like she was. We'll have a majority very shortly, so that'll be great. Once we have a majority, housing is going to swing and it's going to be great.

[Mike Barnacle]

The Fed will abide by any court decision.

[Willie Geist]

Thank you very much.

[Mike Barnacle]

Shereen, will you abide by a court decision?

[Willie Geist]

I abide by the court, yeah. I abide by the question.

[Joe Scarborough]

All right.

[Mike Barnacle]

All right, let's bring in New York Times opinion columnist David French and Capitol bureau chief and senior Washington columnist for Politico. Rachel B. Joins us. It's good to have you both with us this morning. So, again, another sort of gray area as to whether or not this is retribution or not, but it sure looks like it.

[Joe Scarborough]

Well, I mean, the thing is, it all comes down to because we have the, the Article one branch, as David Drucker said yesterday, the supreme branch, the branch that Madison intended to be supreme when he drafted the Constitution of the United States. David French, we have them. Well, they're taking a holiday, they're taking a nap. They're like they ate too much at Cracker Barrel and they're going to sleep for the next couple months on the couch. So it really, once again comes down to the courts, and I find it hard to believe that any court is going to go along with the president's decision to fire somebody, again, for clear political reasons.

[David French]

Well, I think you're going to see that the courts are going to require more than a referral letter. They're going to require more than some sort of accusation that's sort of floating in the ether before they're going to say that this firing satisfies the statutory grounds by statute. This, there's supposed to be no firings unless there's for cause here. For cause. This is not a position that is supposed to be within the total discretion of the president and the Fed is kind of a unique entity in American law. The Supreme Court has already signaled in a recent previous decision that it views the Fed differently than it views other agencies that are under the President. The Fed is not entirely under the President. It's got a unique structure. So I find it very difficult to believe that the court would allow a firing to go forward on nothing more than what we've seen so far. There's no adjudication, there's no finding of guilt, there's very little evidence in the public square. So, yes, it does seem to be political targeting centered around an allegation for which there is so far insufficient evidence. So if Cook is going to file a lawsuit, all of this is going to be adjudicated. But on firing her on the basis that we've seen so far, hard to believe that'll be upheld.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah.

[Ali Vitali]

We should repeat that Ms. Cook hasn't been charged with anything. There's no specifics in this accusation of mortgage fraud. She said it was news to her when she heard it from President Trump. The Wall Street Journal is writing about this. The editorial board asking, what if Trump runs the Federal Reserve? The board writes this isn't a prudent fight for Mr. Trump to pick and it isn't in the best interest of the country. We know from history what happens to central banks that become arms of politicians. See inflation in Turkey under President Erdogan and in Argentina for decades, Richard Nixon job, then chair Arthur Burns to keep monetary policy easy and the result was the 1970s great inflation. But if he wants to change the Fed, Mr. Trump has ample opportunity through appointments to the board, including a successor for Mr. Powell as chair next year. That doesn't seem to be enough for Mr. Trump, who in his athletes thinks he can run monetary policy. Has he considered what politically malleable Fed might do when the progressive left takes charge under another president? Of course he hasn't. Mr. Trump is all about short term tactics and personal political advantage. Institutional integrity bores him. But if he succeeds in taking over the Fed, he and Republicans will own the results and whatever inflation returns. So obviously, David French, the sort of independence of the Fed board has been core to its existence since it began, since it was put into place. This obviously would make it a political arm if Donald Trump could just ad hoc get rid of people and replace them with loyalists and make decisions on the board not based on data around the economy, but on the whims of a president.

[David French]

Well, absolutely. You saw in this sort of opening segment that Y' all ran through of all of the effusive praise of Trump. Trump doesn't like independent thinking. He doesn't like independent minds. He wants people who do exactly what he tells them to do and then will reflect back to him his own perceptions of his own wisdom. And glo nothing about this that implies some sort of serious monetary policy, something that implies that there's some real expertise that he wants brought to bear here that's lacking. What he wants is total subservience. And look, he wants to run the economy hot right now for his purposes so that he can brag about what he's done and the future is not on his mind. He wants it hot now for his own reasons and the legacy of inflation that could lead to down the line. Well, that's, that's somebody else's problem, not his problem. And but it's important to remember the Fed is designed to resist exactly this kind of pressure. And this is going to come down once again to a court battle.

[Joe Scarborough]

So Rev, the President wants to run the Fed's monetary policy. He wants to run intel, he wants to run defense contractors. He threatens CEOs and then they come and make deals with him. He wants to run universities and colleges. He wants to run what's taught in classrooms. He wants to decide football mascot teams names in Washington D.C. he wants to run police forces in D.C. and Chicago and other cities. We had a story last week about how he wants to run absolutely everything. And the question is, where's Congress and where are the courts?

[Joy Reid]

And that's the real question. Are we going to see the guardrails enforced here that this country's built on? We're talking about going into the 250th anniversary of the nation next year. What kind of nation are we going to have when a president can do whatever and jokes about whether or not he wants to be a dictator or not all shucks. I really don't want to be a dictator. But obviously he thinks he is and he uses very clear signals here. I mean, are we forgetting when he raises these questions on the person in Federal Reserve that he is a 34 convicted felon doing this and was found guilty of having fraudulent things with businesses himself? I mean, we're acting like if there's anybody that ever sat in Oval Office that shouldn't be bringing up ethics and legalities is Donald Trump.

[Joe Scarborough]

Well, John Bolton and classified documents. It's rich. It's rich as Cracker Barrel breakfast. Hey, with the old logo with Uncle Rufus or Festus or whatever. His name is. Oh, look, you got your. There you go. Ms. Now that is a look. That's our logo and we like it. Nobody's gonna change it. You woke lose. Beta males. Heteronormative freaks. What are you. We are now, baby. We are now. So with all that behind us, Rachel, let's bring you in. You can look at Congress two ways. The first way you can look at Congress is you can look at it and say, well, where are the Republicans? And that's a question that will be asked until Donald Trump leaves Washington, D.C. but the second question is, where are the Democrats? We've had AOC and Bernie actually set in the woods on fire as old Hank Williams would have sung. But, you know, people like Norm Ornstein, who we're going to have on later on today, said, why aren't they holding hearings not only in D.C. but across the nation? Why aren't the Democrats doing more to push back, hard to fight back, hard to grab the public's imagination and not just, you know, not just have their insult du jour of Donald Trump and then go back into hiding?

[Rachel Bay]

Look, I think it's easy to say fight, fight, fight, but the devil's in the details there for the Democrats. I mean, everybody on the left is saying they want to see Democrats in Congress stick it to Donald Trump. But what do they mean by that? I mean, a good example on this. I think in September when lawmakers come back, there's going to be a big fight about a government shutdown. Do Democrats refuse to fund the government unless Donald Trump rolls back this big, beautiful bill that he passed that cut Medicaid? Do they say, you know, you need to stop sending the National Guard around the country, you need to reverse on that or we're not going to fund the government? I would contend that that's not a battle they should be picking. I mean, are they going to be willing to potentially take the blame if they're helping keep agencies closed and all of a sudden, checks are not making their way to people around the nation? I just think, you know, the Democratic Party, they're very divided right now. You know, you have a wing of the party that they want to see something extreme. They want to see something some Democrats sort of throw down. But what do they mean by that? That's, that's always the tricky part because they can repel swing voters and they want to win back the majority. And the majority in the House runs through more moderate districts.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah.

[Joe Scarborough]

Natalie, what are you hearing about what happens when Democrats stand, Republicans come back?

[Natalie Jackson]

I think the last specter of the near government shutdown hangs really heavy over Democrats heads right now, Joe. Almost all of the Democrats that I've spoken to speak about what they see as positive forms of pushback. They point, for example, to Texas Democrats leaving the state to deny Republicans a quorum even though it didn't fundamentally change Republicans ability to reshape the map in Texas. They point to Senator Cory Booker's very lengthy filibuster on the floor, even though he wasn't filibustering anything and didn't actually have a policy agenda to enact there other than showing that Democrats still have animation and pushback. And so I think a lot of it is just how can they capture energy, how can they bring awareness because they don't have gavel power. They can't have subpoena power until they take back the House majority. Their pushback mechanisms have always been pretty muted. They don't have a ton of options. And so awareness and shining a light is really one of the key functions that they have. And honestly, something that Rachel said really resonates as I've gone to town halls for Democratic members. The Democrats who show up there, who are voters, say, I just want more fight. And I'll say to them, okay, what does that look like? And they say, I don't really know. I just want to see that someone cares. I just want to see that there is. And so that is just a key piece of it, showing that there's life. And if that comes to a government shutdown, I've had Democratic members say to me this is our only point of leverage. If a government shutdown happens, the party in power is typically the one that's blamed. And Democrats know that. They see that. And my sense this time is that unlike last time, where Senate Democrats sort of turned tail on House Democrats and ultimately gave Republicans the votes that they needed to avoid a government shutdown, then my understanding is that this time it's likely to look a little bit different. They're also likely to do a short term continuing resolution. So maybe that means we do this again by the end of the year, which of course is the way that things function in Washington now.

[Mike Barnacle]

All right. Still ahead on Morning Joe, President Trump is doubling down on sending the national guard to Washington, D.C. to crack down on crime. We'll play for you those comments as he considers expanding the move to other cities. Plus, we'll go through new reporting from the Washington Post on FEMA employees being put on leave after criticizing the Trump administration. And a reminder of the Morning Joe Podcast available each weekday, featuring our full conversations and analysis. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back.

[Joe Scarborough]

Beautiful shot.

[Ali Vitali]

This podcast is supported by the Obama Foundation. Real change doesn't happen from the top down. It starts at the ground level with young leaders, organizers and everyday folks who have the power to bring change home to their communities because the challenges we face are real. But with your support, the next generation is stepping up to meet them at the Obama Foundation. We're helping lift up young leaders with the tools, training and support they need to make a lasting, positive change around the world.

[Joe Scarborough]

Donate [e-mail] youth MSNBC presents the chart topping original podcast, the Best People with Nicole Wallace. Each week, Nicole speaks with some of the people who inspire her the most. This week, she sits down with writer, producer Phil Rosenthal. I'm only using food and my stupid sense of humor to get you that real message, which is, I think the world would be better if we all could experience a little bit of other people's experiences. The best people with Nicole Wallace. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts. Start your day with the MSNBC Daily newsletter. Each morning, read sharp insights from the voices you trust. Catch standout moments from your favorite shows.

[Mike Barnacle]

The second Trump administration has gone to.

[Rachel Bay]

Unprecedented lengths to radically transform America.

[Joe Scarborough]

Stay up to speed with our latest podcasts and documentaries and get fresh perspectives from experts shaping the news. It's everything you love about MSNBC delivered to your inbox. Sign up [e-mail].

[Willie Geist]

Crime I think crime will be the big subject of the midterms and will be the big subject of the next election. Think of it. They are, instead of saying Trump's right about crime, it's really bad in Chicago. You have a guy in Illinois, the governor of Illinois, saying that crime has been much better in Chicago recently. And Trump is a dictator. And most people say if you call him a dictator, if he stops crime, he can be, he could be whatever he wants. I'm not a dictator, by the way, but he could be whatever he wants. I think it's going to be a big, a big, big subject for the midterms. And I think the Republicans are going to do really well.

[Mike Barnacle]

President Trump predicting crime will be a major issue during next year's midterm elections. In regards to crime in the nation's capital, Trump says he has the authority to extend the National Guard's deployment there for another 30 days.

[Willie Geist]

Number one, we want to stay there for longer than 30 days. As you know, we have an absolute mandate and I can extend it, but I'd rather not have to declare national emergency because by that time, I mean right now there's not an emergency. We've done. As you sort of said yourself, it feels like a different world.

[Mike Barnacle]

The President also continued to focus on Chicago, saying he has the right to do anything he wants to.

[Joe Scarborough]

No, that's just, just not true. He does not have the right to do anything he wants to do in Chicago.

[Mike Barnacle]

He also criticized Illinois Governor J.B. pritzker.

[Willie Geist]

But it would be nice if he would call me. I would change my mind immediately. Said, you know, because everybody knows Chicago is a hellhole right now. Everybody knows. It's not like he's saying Chicago has much better numbers. Right. Well, what's much better? You mean 100 people are going to be murdered? It's going to be much more than that. So I would have much more respect for Pritzker if he'd call me up and say, I have a problem. Can you help help me fix it? I would be so happy to do it. I don't love. Not that I don't have the right to do anything I want to do. I'm the President of the United States.

[Joe Scarborough]

And so you can't do anything you want to do. You're one third of the constitutional government.

[Mike Barnacle]

In addition, Trump said he would also, out of three branches, to send troops to New York, but only if New York Governor Kathy Hochul would like him to.

[Willie Geist]

I'd love to do it if she'd like. I get along with Kathy. If she'd like to do that, I would do it. You see, look, New York has difficulty like other. And I don't want to make this. I want to make this like, friendly. But the places we're talking about happen to be virtually all Democrat run.

[Mike Barnacle]

Let's bring in the co host of our fourth hour staff writer at the Atlantic, Jonathan Lemire, and MSNBC contributor Mike Barnacle.

[Joe Scarborough]

So there's so much to talk about here. But Willie, let's start with New York, if we will. I mean, New York, I think by just about every measure I've ever seen, is one of the safest big cities in America. I'm glad the President said he got along with the Governor. There have been a couple of times they've talked and they've been able to talk and work together on things. I know there are a lot of people in New York City who said they were glad when the Governor sent the National Guard into to the subways. Was that six months a Year ago. Right. And there are a lot of people in New York who say, yeah, we're safe, but we could use a little more help. I mean, this is what we've been saying from the beginning. A federal government that works with a state government that works with a governor if they can work together to alleviate crime in some of the more dangerous parts. Nobody sees that as a bad thing. But that's just not what's been happening thus far.

[Ali Vitali]

That's not the way he views it.

[Joe Scarborough]

Well, you said it there, but yesterday day, he was saying, this Pritzker guy needs to go to the gym more. That's not the way to, like, forge a partnership. They'll m. Says that to me every day. Yeah.

[Ali Vitali]

Not diplomacy.

[Mike Barnacle]

P. Now.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah, she's trying Pilates. She's trying to teach me. You look, you look at what they're doing. Yeah, I don't do that stuff. But you look, you look at the TV set. It's like somebody's going like this, and you're like, oh, I can do that. And I give cramps all over.

[Mike Barnacle]

Oh, you wouldn't believe it. He ends up on the floor. Floor in, like, a pile of cramps.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah, no, it's no crap. But I got. You know what I do afterwards? They just got smoked.

[Mike Barnacle]

No, you get so mad.

[Ali Vitali]

Not like mom died moving.

[Joe Scarborough]

It gets a blood move.

[Mike Barnacle]

But it's so.

[Joe Scarborough]

And by the way, you're none other than your grandfather tell you smoking cigarettes helps your circulation.

[Ali Vitali]

My great grandfather was the face of Camel cigarettes. And a hockey hall of famer. You tell me.

[Joe Scarborough]

But anyway, I digress. I digress.

[Mike Barnacle]

You're gonna get it. You're gonna get it. Don't give up.

[Joe Scarborough]

Had to cramp in the back of my ear. I had to go to Cracker Barrel. It's a good thing to count down about 4,000 calories. But anyway, so. So we talk about a partnership between states and federal government. That would be fantastic, because I will tell you, there are a lot of people in New York City who say crime is way down. It is a safe place. But still, you know what? I don't always feel comfortable having my kid walk five, six, seven blocks to school or to a play date or, you know, things like that. So again, I just can't imagine if the president could actually call up. Sounds like he gets along with Kathy Okal. Okay, but call up J.D. pritzker. Hey. And do what presidents always do. Hey, I'm here. How can I help you? Can we work together? Tell me what you need. You need more Cops on the street. I'm here for you. You need, you know, you need some National Guard around, you know, your worst places, your federal buildings. I'm here. Like that's so easy to do. And that is a win win.

[Ali Vitali]

That would be great. But he always gives away the game and he says these are Democrat run cities. And some of these governors, whether it's Pritzker, Newsom or Moore, are people he views as rising stars in the party, potential candidates in 2028 to run for president, perhaps a threat to his. So he's always thinking about those things.

[Joe Scarborough]

Right.

[Ali Vitali]

And the partnerships would make sense for cities that want them and need them. But what a lot of these cities have said is we don't need New York. Let's take for example, we don't need National Guard troops in the streets of our city. And New York City Police, Police Commissioner Jessica Tisch said as much just the other day in a meeting with Pam Bondi, the AG. They had a 30 minute meeting, Mike, and she said, here's what we're doing in New York. Here's the data, here's where we were, here's where we are now. We're in good shape. Thanks, but no thanks.

[Jonathan Lemire]

You know Donald Trump's position on the National Guard and sending them into Washington D.C. and allegedly trying to put them into places like Chicago and Baltimore. It has shades of 1968 when the Republican Party first took over law and order as an issue. And they've remained strong with that issue since 1968. Richard Nixon campaigned for president talking about law and order throughout the country.

[Joe Scarborough]

Well, Mike, big difference back then, right? I mean, how many countries, how many cities were on fire when LBJ sent them in?

[Jonathan Lemire]

But today with the national guard in Washington D.C. and the threat of the National Guard and other cities, you have to feel badly for the National Guards people, right? I mean, they didn't sign up for this. They're collecting trash around the Washington Monument. Some members of the trash outside of.

[Joe Scarborough]

Dunkin of Krispy Kreme. Now if the donuts are hot, signs flashing, sign me up for that, dude. Well, they were in a long line.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Of cops outside the donut store.

[Joe Scarborough]

That's not what they were hired for. Please stop that.

[Jonathan Lemire]

But it's a misuse of the National Guard. You insert them into a city where probably more likely than not many members of that unit don't come from the District of Columbia. They don't know the neighborhood, they don't know the players in neighborhoods from one neighborhood to another. And they're wasting their Time really well.

[Joe Scarborough]

And that's why it's so important. We were talking yesterday with the mayor of Chicago about, you know, give Chicago 5,000 more cops under two circumstances, Ralph. One, one, train them right. And two, make sure they live in the communities where they please. And I will say these poor National Guards people, weekend warriors, are coming in here. They don't know the areas like Mike said. They don't know the communities. Like this is. This is not what they train for. Whereas you hire 5000 cops for new York or Chicago or whatever, you train them. Right. And you make sure you pay them a salary where they can live in the communities that they police. That is more of a solution, right?

[Joy Reid]

Absolutely. Which is why many of us that have dealt with this question have said, let's have police that live in the city because they know the city. Their kids go to school with the people that they're policing as kids. And just like he said he could talk to Governor Hochul, which I think is a good thing, he could have talked to Mayor Bowser in Washington, D.C. right. Rather than cut a billion dollars out of the budget that she had.

[Mike Barnacle]

They need their money back, and I.

[Joy Reid]

Think that they need their money back. They need resources and they need to have a union with community. People need to understand people in the community more than anybody, want to see crime down.

[Joe Scarborough]

Right.

[Joy Reid]

And they know that it is going down. We're not sitting up there saying, protect our criminals and protect crime, but we do not need this interposition and nullification by the President of the United States.

[Joe Scarborough]

And by the way, I commend Mayor Bowser. I know a lot of people probably wanted her to scream and yell and get angry with. She's held her tongue and she's continuing to try to work consciously, constructively with the President of the United States.

[Joy Reid]

Absolutely.

[Joe Scarborough]

I think that's really positive, especially for the mayor of Washington. All right, so you're our Sherpa here. What's going on inside the White House? Hey, guide us through the White House and specifically guide us through the President's brain, like what's going on here? Because, you know, he had a tall order. He's had past four or five days have been. Have been a bit vertiginous, as John Meacham might say. What was that word he used? Intermuritig. Never comes towards about 27. He was very proud of himself. But anyway, so it's been vertiginous. But yesterday it's very interesting. As long and as winding as this went, kind of sort of an olive branch to Kathy Hochul. I like Kathy. Kind of like I can work with her. We're not going up there right now. He didn't do that with Chicago.

[Joy Reid]

But.

[Joe Scarborough]

He was saying, I'm going to abide by the courts. I'm going to do what the courts. What's going on with the president specifically on this issue? I think he's realized that Chicago and New York and these other things are not legally feasible. And he's going to stay with Washington, D.C. where he's at least for 30 days unless he declares an emergency. He's pretty safe standing on pretty good legal grounds.

[Jonathan Lemire]

I mean, what I've been told from people around the president, it changes by the day how he feels about these things. You're right. Yesterday he has been receiving more counsel that it's DC Is different than his other cities. He has more authority there. He has the ability to have the guard there with fewer legal roadblocks than he would in other cities. I think, to Willie's point, I've been told as well, like, look at some of the cities he's picked on here. This is, you know, it's Los Angeles. That's Governor Gavin Newsom, potential 28, 2028 contender. It's Maryland. Baltimore, Maryland.

[Joy Reid]

Westmore, another one.

[Joe Scarborough]

Wait, wait a second, wait a second. Dodge. I'm connecting some dots. Go ahead.

[Jonathan Lemire]

We've also got got JB Pritzker, another potential presidential candidate. That's Illinois and Chicago. And even though Kathy Hochul not rumored to run for president, but she's got a reelection bid, who's she facing? Top Trump ally Elise Stefanik.

[Joe Scarborough]

So there's a boy. She's popular.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Yeah. There's a lot of who's not doing well in her district right now, but still has the president's favor. So I think there's certainly some politics to this. It's also just bigger picture. They want to put the Democrats, they think, on the wrong side of the crime issue, even though, as you have noted and others, a lot of the cities with the highest crime rates are in red states. We've gone through the list there. Also, there is anxieties about the economy. You know, some of the underlying metrics have not been great. We're seeing this push with the Fed right now. He wants interest, the rates cut. We'll see how that plays out. Frustration on we heard, we did hear the president again angry yesterday about the situation in Ukraine, feeling there's no, not really close to a solution there.

[Joe Scarborough]

Angry at whom?

[Mike Barnacle]

I mean, like at Putin.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Mostly at Putin, but but also there's I'm told, some frustration on the Ukraine side that they're not not being realistic about some of the concessions they'll have to make up, mainly Dunbash, that is the territory. But they have not asked Russia for much in the way of concessions at all at this point. And Europe is still sort of sitting, watching idly by. So there's, there's a lot here. But at the end of the day, this is a president who is trying to expand executive power. He sees a way to do it here on a crime issue where he feels like he can be, he can be on the winning side of it and but the tenor of it changes by the day with his whims, whether or not he's winning a new cycle or not.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah. I mean, the thing is though, if you're going to talk about crime, Democrats are going to have to say, hey, we're okay with cops, right rev. We're okay with cops on the street. We want them trained right. We want to be in serve the community. We want to be in the community. You got to be able to say.

[Joy Reid]

That and say it loud. I mean, again, many of us that have been in the anti police brutality movement, like me, wanted to see more people in the community become cops, and many did. Now, we don't want to see them overruled by this incoming army that is not trained, not armed and don't want to be there. It just does not have help with bringing the community and these cities together. And let's not bring out, let's not forget the string that a lot of us see in this is not only is he picking at Democrats, he's picking at blacks all the way to a black woman in the Federal Reserve. It's no secret that everybody he throws at the red meat to his base happened to be black mayors. They can't run cities. Federal Reserve, the only black woman on the Reserve reserve, she's a mortgage fraud person, which nobody's made that allegation. So he's playing both ways of law and order and race. And it has been something that has been ugly in the American politic for a while.

[Joe Scarborough]

So, Rachel, let's talk about your latest piece of political magazine titled Trump is Leaning on Crime, which he just said Democrats need a better response and fast. So, yeah, tell us more about what you found because as Ali was reporting back on what Democrats were excited about what they've done over the past six months. One was a Texas redistricting move that didn't do anything. The second was Cory Booker talking For a real long time on the Senate floor, which didn't do anything. Let's talk about crime. And first thing I always ask is if somebody's coming at me with an issue, how do I, you know, take the issue away from them and reply in a stronger way? And, you know, what's the Democrats answer to that? If they're, if they're not going to be supporting more like Bill Clinton, 100,000 cops on the street. What's the Democrats response?

[Rachel Bay]

Well, you would think they would sort of use the opportunity to say, look, we're not soft on crime. You're accusing us of being soft on crime. We're not. We're going to call for more police officers. We're going to call for sort of an end to various decriminalization efforts that we've seen across the country since the 2020 George Floyd protests that there was sort of this movement to sort of back off a number of prosecutions. Voters have shown that they do not support that movement and actually have pushed back on in Democratic areas like Portland, like New York, like Chicago. So you would think Democrats would sort of attack this issue that way. But I've got to say, you're not seeing a lot of leaders, and I mean, from a purely political standpoint, Donald Trump on this issue believes he has the upper hand. And I think you're seeing that right now. I mean, we see a lot of Democrats talking about how, oh, this is authoritarian. Right. But look, voters don't like overtly partisan power grabs.

[Mike Barnacle]

Sure.

[Rachel Bay]

But there's one thing they don't like even more, and that is feeling unsafe in their own neighborhoods. I mean, crime is a top issue for voters, especially in recent years, and it traditionally favors Republicans. And they're sort of tough on crime response. I mean, you guys have talked about how you think voters in New York believe crime is coming down, but if you look at polling nationwide, that is actually not the case. I mean, I was just looking at a poll yesterday, or I guess the day before when I was writing this piece, found that 70% of Americans thought crime was just as bad right now as it had been in recent years or is actually getting worse. And something like 20% actually thought it was coming down.

[Mike Barnacle]

So.

[Rachel Bay]

So when you think about voters and how they feel right now, Trump is really leaning in and sort of latching onto those fears, changing the subject away from things like Medicaid cuts or, you know, the midterms being a referendum on him. He's trying to move it back to crime. And I mean, you asked Panelists, does he have the authority to do this, to go to Chicago to put the National Guard in New York? I would contend that it's not about winning this fight. It's about the fight itself. He wants to be the one to tell voters, I'm tough on crime. What are you going to do? And what Democrats are doing right now is saying, oh, you don't have the authority and crime is down. That doesn't resonate with people. You have to have specific solutions about how you're going to protect their communities.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah. POLITICO's Rachel Bay, thank you so much. And you can write your latest article in Politico online, available right now. So, Willie, here's the deal, Dylan. It's just trying to help Democrats, you know, because I'm a nice guy here. I got to help Republicans if they needed help and weren't doing what they were doing every they were being actually. But here's the thing. You can't just say Donald Trump's an authority, you know, like, and be scared about it. You have to say he's acting like an authoritarian. And what he's talking about doing is not going to fix your crime problem. It's not going to make your streets safer. It's not going to make your kids school safer, not going to make your walk to church safer. It's not going to do anything but make his political base stronger. What we need are more cops on the street. What we need is an environment that will allow you to walk down on the subway and feel safe. We allow you to go into a CVS store and not have to ask a person behind the counter to get the toothpaste and the Rolaids from behind the plastic, you know, separator and help people have this sense. Because when we sit here and talk about crime rates are lower than they've been in 60 years. Sounds a lot like what I was saying and other people were saying before the election about the economy. Our economy is stronger relative to the rest of the world than any time since 1945. People don't feel it. It ain't true. I mean, if people don't feel it, as Henry Kissinger said, in politics, perception's reality. Well, the perception right now is not caught up to where the crime rates are.

[Ali Vitali]

Well, Karl Rove joins you in that chorus. He was warning yesterday, Democrats, be careful around this crime issue. There is a good answer to the question like the one we asked Mayor Johnson of Chicago yesterday. And so far, he hasn't heard most Democrats, Democrats giving the answer sort of echoing what you're saying here. So, David French, the question is then for Democrats and you can offer some free political advice too, if you'd like to. What is the way through this? We have heard Governor Moore, Governor Pritzker, Governor Newsom saying we welcome partnership, we welcome more cops. We want people in our streets to feel safe. But we're not doing it his way. We're not going to have troops walking down the streets of Baltimore and Chicago and Los Angeles.

[David French]

I mean, you have to use the truth to blow up his narrative. And the truth is this, that people forget he was president in 2020. And when crime really exploded, when violent crime really exploded in a way that was terrifying and dangerous, it happened in 2020 in his presidency, his first term ever since 2020, I think Democrats could say we've been dealing with the fallout and we've been trying to wrestle and bring this under control and have had a lot of success. You can look at declining crime rates in the Biden term. You can these declines have continued in this year. So there has been a story of success to say he, he was in charge when this blew up and we've been dealing with the fallout ever since. And the other thing you gotta say is not just that this military deployment is authoritarian. A lot of people don't know, don't think in those terms. Another thing you can say is this military deployment employment is bad for the military. This is something that is diverting it from its mission. If you think that this was the most effective way of dealing with crime, then why haven't all these red state governors called out their National Guards in their cities that have much higher crime rates than many of the cities that Trump is talking about? The reason they haven't done it is because the National Guard is not a crime fighting organization. This is bad from the military as diverting it from its main mission. We're the ones getting crime under control after it blew up under Donald Trump. And then explain to voters how you're doing it. And then one thing you have to deal with is public disorder. It's not just about armed robberies and violent crime. It's about the sense that when I'm walking out, I'm on the subway or I'm in a park, are there going to be people around me? Is there going to be an atmosphere that feels dangerous around me because people are acting in a way that's out of control? And I think a of lot of Democrats have underestimated just the way in which public disorder is very unsettling to people and to make that a priority of dealing with public disorder. I think until they do that, a lot of the arguments are going to fall flat.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah. You know, it is, it is very interesting what, what we just heard that for some reason people forget Donald Trump was president in 2020. Why is that? Ron DeSantis, I think it was Ron DeSantis on Fox News a couple days ago and he's talking about, of course, Joe Biden in 2020. No, Joe Biden wasn't president 2020. Joe Biden wasn't president flexible when there was chaos in the streets. Joe Biden wasn't president when the American streets were more chaotic than any time since 1968. How is it that everybody, it happens all the time on right wing Talk shows in 2020. Thanks, Biden. What makes the White House in 2020? That was Donald Trump. Yeah.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Well, you know something, that's a huge issue, the national attention span, it's about a second long. People don't remember what happened last week, two weeks ago, never mind 2020. And Trump capitalizes on, he does. But on this issue of crime, I mean, the vast majority of Americans have never been mugged, assaulted, robbed, carjacked or attempted to be killed by someone. But they come home, they watch the TV news, the local TV news. If it bleeds, it leads. That has never changed. If there's a murder in the area, it's going to be up there right at the top of the news. If there's a mugging, a serious mugging or kidnapping, whatever, it's going to be right at the top of the news. But even given that, even given that sense of security that they seem to feel they're losing, the Democrats continually fail to speak to the issue in normal human terms.

[Joe Scarborough]

They really do. And again, we've gone down the list already. But really, things are so dangerous that you have to put Rolaids and toothpaste and Listerine behind plastic, I mean, because it'll be stolen. People can't walk down the street. Again if somebody walks down the street. Let's talk about crime stats really quickly before we wrap this up up. And by the way, Ron DeSantis blamed Donald Trump in, I mean, blamed Joe Biden in 2020 for short, changing Florida in the 2020 census. But if their kid can't walk down the street without somebody coming up screaming in their face, that won't be recorded as a crime. It's, unfortunately, it's a poor man or a woman that has mental health difficulties that are living out on the streets.

[Mike Barnacle]

That's why the services that were cut in the Republican Ben are very needed.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah, they're needed, of course, which we've been saying now for two days.

[Ali Vitali]

Yeah.

[Joe Scarborough]

And so. So they're very needed. So, but, but still your child comes home and says, there was a guy or a woman that was screaming at me at the top of my lungs. I got scared and I ran and da, da, da, da, da. Like, there's no, there's no sense of security there. And that's what, again, Democrats need to get their arms around that and stop saying, and everything's fine.

[Joy Reid]

You have to address the feeling of not being secure. I grew up in Brownsville, East Flatbush, Brooklyn. We had three locks on the door and a bar against the door. And I'm out there marching. But we wanted to be safe. What the Democrats ought to be saying is, yes, crime has been a problem. We've successfully done this, but we need more help. We're glad you on the way in, Mr. President. So we can not only cut it down to where we have have. We need to cut it down more. Bringing untrained National Guardsmen that do not understand this is not the way to do it. Help us get more trained police that have done community policing. Because that's what's worked. Because you're absolutely right. We've got to deal with crime. Do the Muhammad Ali strategy. Rope a dopa, right? Lean against the rope, take the blows and say, now, come on now, let's do this together. And he will not know how to answer that.

[Mike Barnacle]

All right. Coming up, a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning, including the company that's building record profits brick by brick. We'll explain that straight ahead. And as we head to break, we'll.

[Joe Scarborough]

Have to wait and see again. Another great team.

[Mike Barnacle]

It's called the Tease. A reminder that on Wednesday, September 10th, Joe and I will appear at the 92nd Street Y here in New York City.

[Joe Scarborough]

William, conversation with Braxton yesterday.

[Mike Barnacle]

Ed Loose.

[Joe Scarborough]

Oh, my banjo. Yeah.

[Mike Barnacle]

The Financial about his very timely biography.

[Joe Scarborough]

Or jug. You play the jug.

[Mike Barnacle]

Watch former National Security Advisors Big Nev Brzezinski. For tickets, visit 92y.org events you're watching morning Joe. We'll be right back.

[Joe Scarborough]

Free Buicks for everybody that can.

[Mike Barnacle]

I think that you have to have.

[Joe Scarborough]

Faith that in the end it'll all be okay.

[Mike Barnacle]

That no matter who wins a presidential election, we will live in a democracy.

[Joe Scarborough]

The First Amendment will govern what journalists.

[Mike Barnacle]

Can say and do.

[Joe Scarborough]

The Constitution will protect the rights of everybody.

[Mike Barnacle]

If you can agree that most people want those things. Our show is about trying to bend the arc toward that end result.

[Joe Scarborough]

Deadline White House with Nicole Wallace, weekdays from 4 to 6pm Eastern on MSNBC. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for early access, ad free listening and bonus content to all all of MSNBC's original podcasts, including the chart topping series the Best People with Nicole Wallace. Why is this happening? Main justice and more. Plus new episodes of all your favorite MSNBC shows ad free and ad free listening to all of Rachel Maddows original series, Ultra Bagman and Deja News. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.

[Mike Barnacle]

That's a really good idea.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah, I didn't say that. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Willie, this great. No, no. This is runaway bestseller. Before you come on before you fly away.

[Mike Barnacle]

I love before you fly Away.

[Joe Scarborough]

That made us laugh. It made us cry.

[Mike Barnacle]

It did.

[Joe Scarborough]

It took us back to our most vulnerable moments of virtual life.

[Ali Vitali]

I was just showing you that.

[Mike Barnacle]

That's not a joke.

[Ali Vitali]

My wife Christina's book before youe Fly Away, which she self published, was she's amazing. A bunch of advice. She was just literally writing to give to our daughter as she went to college and then decided to self publish. Literally uploaded it to a website her partner in business, Todd True, designed.

[Mike Barnacle]

It's beautiful.

[Ali Vitali]

And it just gets printed as you ordered it. So she comes on Morning Joe with us a couple of days ago and her book, as we sit here today, is number two on Amazon in parenting behind only Jonathan Haidt's it's so good runaway bestseller, the Anxious Generation. So she thanks you and thanks the audience. But it is if you're saying goodbye to someone, it's in any way whether they're going to college or giving away.

[Mike Barnacle]

And I like that feeling because I think every parent had it. I had it for sure. And she expressed it so well on the show where she goes, you always wonder, did I teach them everything? Like, what's the. You're almost like crash coursing on parenting right before they leave. And this book just sort of says it's okay. Yeah, here's the ways you can do it.

[Ali Vitali]

Exactly. So thank you guys.

[Joe Scarborough]

And by the way, it only took him 12 minutes, but TJ got the COVID up.

[Mike Barnacle]

It's so good you fly away Christina guy.

[Joe Scarborough]

But I got it. But he got it. Exactly.

[Mike Barnacle]

But he got it for a look at some of the other stories.

[Joe Scarborough]

And by the way, Jonathan, just a warning to you and parents. Watching. Watching.

[Mike Barnacle]

Yeah.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yep.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Goes by like my oldest starts high.

[Joe Scarborough]

School and goes by just like that. He's quite a soccer star, right?

[Jonathan Lemire]

He is. I will say if I may, as a freshman made his far to school's varsity. So we're excited about that. Yep, he's going to high school. Our youngest is heading to middle school. So we're gonna be right behind you.

[Mike Barnacle]

Okay. Time now for the other headlines. The Washington Post has new reporting on dozens of FEMA employees being put on leave after signing an open letter criticizing the agency's leadership. About 180 current and former FEMA staffers sent a letter on Monday to members of Congress and other officials arguing the current leader's inexperience and approach harm FEMA's mission and could result in a a disaster on the level of Hurricane Katrina. Last month the administration put nearly 140 EPA employees on leave after they sent their own letter of dissent. It feels important.

[Joe Scarborough]

Jack Nicholson, Boston accent for a second there. Former.

[Mike Barnacle]

Sorry. Yeah, you're not ruining that movie.

[Jonathan Lemire]

The Departed's great. Nicholson's the weakest partner. Nicholson Jackson is wonderful movie.

[Willie Geist]

We need to follow that.

[Joe Scarborough]

Let me tell you, Nicholson is one of the great actors. But Mike, I think know you would agree he's a Boston guy. It was just as cringeworthy as all those southern movies when Yankees would come and did this. I would like to know, sir, what you plan to do with this defendant. And you know, they, the guy grew up in Vermont. You're like, come on, man, I don't.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Disagree with you in Nicholson's accent, but because he's Jack Nicholson, you sort of.

[Joe Scarborough]

Give him, it's a slide.

[Jonathan Lemire]

He also refused despite the fact that he's more or less playing whitey ball. Soldier. Yeah, because he's Jack Nicholson. He refused to wear any Red Sox or Celtics gear because he's a Yankees and Lakers fan.

[Joe Scarborough]

Well, yeah, they should have never let him in the movie. Well, now come on. All right, everyone back to why he didn't wear red lines. Nobody had a whitey wear anything.

[Mike Barnacle]

Iowa Democrats.

[Joe Scarborough]

Well, hold on really on that though. Mike, Mike, what world are we living in where we're living in Donald Trump's world? In the past people write those letters.

[Mike Barnacle]

I do agree with this.

[Joe Scarborough]

It would go through whatever. People would not be happy. People would be called, called the front office. And then there would be somebody in mid, mid level management that would listen to it and take it to somebody into the White House and say, yeah, listen, they're saying this and you know, we've let them know they're we took them to the Woodshed. We're not happy about it, but we have some problems we really need to, we really need to look into on FEMA because we don't want to get hit. We don't want, you know, we don't want our constituents get hit with a FEMA type disaster. Well, the reality, instead they just put them on leave.

[Jonathan Lemire]

The reality is we now live in a world of police, political world, coming out of the White House where if you sign a letter saying, you know this is going to be trouble, you know, you're letting this go, it's not as good as it used to be. You are dismissed, you are sent home. Yeah, you know, you're told to go home. We had yesterday, we showed clips of it, a normal 3 hour and 15 minute cabinet meeting where the members of the cabinet of the President of the United States absolutely demeaned themselves.

[Mike Barnacle]

Yeah, it was so long too.

[Joe Scarborough]

He just needs one person. Actually, usually most presidents have at least one person, Willie, that can say no almost. Mr. President. No, that's. Listen, I mean, I, you know, in my little lowly deal, I had three people and if I couldn't convince all three that I was going to do something, I didn't do it. And that made me really angry a lot of the times. And I said, well, I'm going to convince them, you know, and saved me time after time after time to not just do what I thought in the moment was the right thing to do.

[Ali Vitali]

Right, not do something that's bad for the country, but also if you want to be selfish, it's not bad for you politically. You need one of those truth tellers on the inside. But as Mike says, you go around that table and watch that performance. You had the Secretary of Labor, a very important job talking about. Mr. President, we have put your big beautiful face on the side of the Department of Labor. We invite you to come and visit.

[Jonathan Lemire]

If they ever saw Jonathan Lemire at the Morning Joe staff meetings, they would know how to behave.

[Joe Scarborough]

Exactly. He throws shit.

[Jonathan Lemire]

No, but the whole point of the second term, the whole point of the scene in the second term is to not have that guy in the first term. He surrounded himself with, you know, people were making recommendations. There were some old school Republican orthodoxy, you know, adherents there. He listened to people. This time. He didn't want anybody but true believers. That's the entire point, is to not have someone tell him no businesses that.

[Ali Vitali]

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