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Israel monitoring Iran’s nuclear sites closely
00:50:49
Trump heads to Texas as recovery efforts from deadly flood continue
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- [00:00]
Joe Scarborough
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Willie Geist
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Mika Brzezinski
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Joe Scarborough
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Richard Haass
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Mika Brzezinski
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Joe Scarborough
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- [00:41]
Andrea Mitchell
Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Friday, July 11th. It is Friday and we have a lot to get to this morning.
- [00:50]
Mika Brzezinski
We do.
- [00:51]
Andrea Mitchell
Including President Trump and the first lady traveling today to Central Texas a week after the devastating flooding across six counties as the search continues for more than 160 people who are still missing right now. Also ahead, we'll go through yesterday's meeting between Secretary of State Marco Rubio and his Russian counterpart and whether those talks made any progress toward a peace deal with Ukraine. Plus, the president is escalating tensions with a major trading partner and teasing more across the board. Taxes on imports. And there was a major upset at the All England Club yesterday.
- [01:32]
Joe Scarborough
Now Amanda Edisonova has done it. Her sweetest win, second phase of her career. She's bound for the wimble and final.
- [01:56]
Andrea Mitchell
Wow. American Amanda Anisimova knocked off the world's number one women's player, Irina Sabalenka. Advance to tomorrow's championship match. What a game. What a story.
- [02:09]
Joe Scarborough
Well, what a story indeed. You know, last year she was this time last year she was getting over the fact she didn't even qualify for the main event. But her story goes much deeper than that.
- [02:21]
Andrea Mitchell
It does. This woman took off time back in 2019. It was a week before her 18th birthday and I believe she was about to enter the US Open to have a match days before her father, who was also her coach, passed away. She withdrew from the US Open and she took a bunch of time off to grieve and recover with her family. And she ultimately decided to come back to tennis thinking that would make her father happy. And she's back.
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Joe Scarborough
She's back, Willie. And in the biggest of way center court. Just extraordinary comeback story.
- [03:04]
Richard Haass
Yeah, she was a teen phenom for people who don't remember an American phenom, she won the US Open junior title when she was 17 years old. And then, as Mika said, her father, who was also her coach, died. That hit her hard. Then Covid came. There were all these things, and she really, ultimately wasn't living up to the potential or the expectations at least, that so many people had placed upon her over the years. And about a year ago, as you said, she stepped away from tennis and was like, I've got to sort of reset it, everything. She stopped playing tennis. She was home. She lives in Miami. She said she's hung out with her dogs and had a normal life and then kind of regained the love for tennis. And so she's been back for a little while now. But this is an extraordinary mountain she's climbed now to get all the way to the final of Wimbledon. And now it's, you know, it's kind of a nice story that what. Who she thought she was going to be at 17 or 18 or other people expected her to be at that age. She is now on her own terms become and got a chance now to win a Wimbledon title. Amazing.
- [04:07]
Joe Scarborough
It is amazing. And, you know, we also really have some. Some great possible final lining up on the men's side as well. I mean, just big names last. Last two days here, and we'll. We'll see how it ends up. But of course, center is number one in the world. But that's. That's quite a lineup there for who will possibly be in men's finals.
- [04:38]
Richard Haass
Yeah, including another American, Taylor Fritz, who plays Carlos Alcaraz, a great player. They get started in just a little while here this morning. But, yeah, those are basically the marquee names of tennis, including Djokovic, who's just still doing it every time. You think this is his swan song. He can't keep doing this at his age. He's unbelievable.
- [04:59]
Joe Scarborough
Yeah, he really is. You know.
- [05:00]
Andrea Mitchell
Okay, I look forward to watching.
- [05:01]
Joe Scarborough
You know, Willie was a teenage tennis phenom. Did you know that?
- [05:05]
Andrea Mitchell
Something like that. Yeah.
- [05:07]
Joe Scarborough
He won. I think he won Wimbledon in 82 after the year after McEnroe beat Bjorn Borg.
- [05:16]
Andrea Mitchell
Yeah, I don't remember.
- [05:17]
Richard Haass
I had the wooden racket shorts.
- [05:21]
Andrea Mitchell
The wooden racket. I did have a wooden racket. That's how old we are.
- [05:24]
Joe Scarborough
All right, he had the Royal Tenenbaum short. Short. And, yeah, the Baltimore headband.
- [05:29]
Andrea Mitchell
I've got the vision. Yeah, I can see it. All right, let's get to our top story this morning. This morning we have new information on Last month's operation in IR targeting the country's nuclear facilities. Citing a senior Israeli government official, NBC's Andrea Mitchell reports Israel believes at least some of Iran's highly enriched uranium at one of its sites was not destroyed in the US Airstrikes targeting the base. However, that officials tells NBC News that uranium is buried deep beneath the facility and is effectively unreachable. The official says Israel is monitoring activity closely and if Iran is seen trying to recover the material, Israel will not hesitate to carry out new strikes.
- [06:16]
Joe Scarborough
Let's bring it around. The President Meredith of the Council on Foreign Relations, Richard Haass. He's the author of the weekly newsletter Home and Away on Substack. Also Morning Joe's official golf analyst. Maybe we'll see if he wants to talk about tennis. Also managing editor at the Bulwark, Sam Stein, who's going to be stepping in talking about all things Red Sox in the middle of a seven game win. Amazing. Amazing. It is amazing, Richard. So it's very interesting details coming out of this Israeli intelligence that is that not all the uranium was destroyed, but it is rendered ineffective right now because it's buried. And if the Iranians go after it, well, that may be the last thing they do. Tell us what you know.
- [07:02]
Willie Geist
Yeah, I think there's two takeaways from this. One is the strikes were pretty effective in terms of knocking out thousands of centuries fuses and in probably making it difficult if not impossible to reach all this enriched uranium. That's the good news. Obliteration is the president's favorite word, is probably a step too far in part because some things may have survived. And more important, there's parts of the program that were never there to begin with. And I think what we're looking at is a future, Joe. And I think this is the bottom line where this is a problem that's been diminished. It's the program was set back but not eliminated. And one has to assume that the big takeaway in Iran will be, hey, we need nuclear weapons in order to deter the Americans and the Israelis from ever doing anything like this again. So my guess is we're looking at a future where the Iranians slowly, in all sorts of decentralized ways try to rebuild a program. Easier said than done. It will take more time. But my guess is this is not the last time we will have used military force. Either we or the or the Israelis will have used military force against Iran. Iran's nuclear program. I can imagine six months from now, six years from now, there'll be new intelligence about some equipment or material in some location. And if it can't be resolved diplomatically, I think once again you'll see military action called in against, against Iran.
- [08:27]
Richard Haass
So, Richard, let's talk about that potential diplomacy here. We're talking about the specifics of how effective that attack was, but let's talk geopolitically about the aims of that attack to try to bring Iran to the negotiating table, to bring Iran to heel in some ways. How effective was it there? What do you expect to see now?
- [08:47]
Willie Geist
Well, it's tough because Iran has stopped cooperation with the international weapons inspectors. So that obviously works against diplomacy. We'd have to be willing to relieve sanctions. I think that's probably the big Iranian ask at this point because their economy is in rough shape and the regime is focused right now. Priority number one for this regime is shoring itself up, among other things, getting economic sanctions relief would help there. So I think there's a potential possibility for some diplomacy, I think you'd call it a long shot, either to reach an agreement and then also to implement an agreement and stay true to it over time rather than have, say, the Iranians trying to, you know, work around it. So I think it's fine to pursue the diplomatic approach, and we will, but I just think it's, it's unrealistic to think that it's going to solve the problem for all time going forward.
- [09:40]
Andrea Mitchell
So the Wall Street Journal editorial board is writing about this with a new piece entitled what's Trump's Next Move on Iran? It reads in part, quote, the aftermath of the 12 day war with Iran looks mixed. More than two weeks later, Iran's nuclear program was badly damaged and likely set back for years. But the Ayatollah's government isn't admitting defeat and shows no signs of dropping its revolutionary or nuclear designs. There's no sign Iran will surrender the remains of its enrichment program. Iran has driven out United nations weapons inspectors who left the country last week. It may drop out of the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty. That will make it impossible for inspectors to make a ground level estimate of the damage done and track or collect any nuclear material that remains. Iran isn't hankering for normal relations with the west either. The successful US Military operation has the regime more vulnerable than at any time since the Islamic Revolution. Now is the moment to capitalize for a safer Middle East. The question is how, when?
- [10:54]
Joe Scarborough
Well, the question also is what is the sam, what's the political possibility of doing this and having, you know, the majority of people in Congress or in America supporting you And I would just say, you know, I think the Iranian sights should have been struck. I actually, I agree with the president and with those that he succeeded over the past 25 years. Iran can't have a nuclear program. That said, I may be in the minority when it comes to American voters on what they're willing to have the United States do that stop that from happening. I mean, it's. And part of that is, you know, used to be Democrats would be against. Most Democrats would be against a military operation. Most Republicans would support that military operation. I guess this is the old Republican and me coming out. But it is so mixed, isn't it, Sam? It is really. It's hard to follow exactly the ebb and the flow of the MAGA base. People on the left who support Israel, some of those who support. It's. It's really hard to tell how much support there'd be for the president going back and striking Iran again.
- [12:13]
Mika Brzezinski
Yeah. Actually don't think you'd be in the minority. I think people view this through a nuanced lens. But I do think, if I'm understanding it correctly, that there's a lot of hesitation for over engagement in the country. And look I at the bulwark. We wrote about this with a varying degree of opinions, but I think generally we were supportive the strikes for the purposes of getting rid of, or at least setting back the nuclear program. But the question, I suppose now is at what cost? Right. Did we set back to diplomatic efforts with Iran as well? And then I think Richard really hit on the more important question is did we lose visibility into what Iranian nuclear program objectives were and what's happening on the ground going forward? Because, frankly, Iran's going to try to reconstitute their program. Obviously, we know that they've said so. If they do it in secret, if they pop up in three or four months and say, hey, we've actually accelerated, did we actually accomplish what we set out to do with these strikes? This is all by way of saying this is an incredibly nuanced, difficult geopolitical question to tackle. My sense is that the Trump administration actually does, at this point, want to find some sort of diplomatic path forward. Trump has hinted at it. They've had negotiations, they want to get them back. They've actually dangled the idea of sanction relief on Iranian oil. It hasn't come to fruition yet. But I wouldn't be totally surprised if the Trump administration starts pursuing more aggressively a diplomatic resolution to. To maybe like, stabilize the region a little bit. And I, And I do agree with you. I think there's a lot of hesitation in the MAGA base out there about more and more military engagement and so it might not be, it might have worked this time in terms of politically striking Iran. I'm not totally sure how much more he can go back to that.
- [13:59]
Joe Scarborough
Well, yeah, you know, Richard, it's very interesting. We were talking yesterday about interpreting what the president said when he seems to say things that are either conflicting or ambiguous regarding his secretary of defense. If you sort through it, it's actually not too ambiguous at all what he was saying here. The same thing with Iran where he said several things. But I'm wondering if your, if your read on President Trump on this issue is the same as mine. You know, he said two weeks and then he attacked and that was clearly a head fake. Afterwards he said, oh, I'm not going to even think about this after this week. Something along those lines. Didn't really mean that though. He's, he's had some statements afterwards basically pushing the Iranians saying, you know, you need to play this smart, you need to deal with this. I'm curious what you think the president's current and by the way that's the take of most Arab leaders right now is yeah, the president is not going to let Iran off the hook. At least the Arab leaders I talked to. I'm curious though where you believe the president is right now on deterring this nuclear risk moving forward. One and two, what you would advise this president or any other president in this position to do.
- [15:18]
Willie Geist
I would probably do a two pronged policy, Joe. I would explore it diplomatically and I think that will be the president's inclination. He always likes, he's attracted to the big diplomatic deal. So I would put on the table a grand bargain, if you will, with Iran and lay it out in terms of support for proxies, put the priority on not reconstituting their nuclear program. It would require getting international weapons inspectors back in, offer them sanctions relief and I think there's a chance, I don't think that's far fetched because again, the Iranian regime is something on the ropes. They think about it. They've had a terrible year and a half, two years since October 7th. It has been economically and strategically a fiasco for the Iranian regime. A lot of their senior people have been assassinated. So I don't think it's out of the question that they would accept a deal. And then on the back burner you have the military option and it's not going to war with Iran, again, it would be discrete strikes, kind of like Israel and the United States did. So I think if the president combines the two, a good faith diplomatic approach that's demanding but not inconceivable, puts aside regime change and has in his back pocket the possibility of renewed military force, I think that's worth pursuing. And I hope he, I hope he goes for it.
- [16:32]
Andrea Mitchell
All right, we've got more news to get to. President Trump made another major tariff announcement yesterday, declaring a 35% rate on most Canadian imports effective August 1st. The President posted a letter to Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney on Truth Social warning of even higher tariffs if Canada retaliates with levies of their own. Trump also wrote, if Canada works with me to stop the flow of fentanyl, we will perhaps consider an adjustment to this letter. Prime Minister Carney responded in a post on X, writing in part, canada has made vital progress to stop the scourge of fentanyl in North America, and we are committed to continuing to work with the United States to save lives and protect communities in both our countries. Willie.
- [17:22]
Richard Haass
Meanwhile, President Trump says higher blanket tariffs on most American trade partners also are on the way. In an exclusive phone interview yesterday with NBC's Meet the Press moderator Kristen Welker, the president dismissed concerns that additional tariffs could negatively affect the stock market or drive up inflation. The president telling Kristen, quote, we're just going to say all of the remaining countries are going to pay, whether it's 20% or 15%. We'll work that out. Now, blanket tariffs are currently set at 10%. It's unclear exactly when the higher blanket tariffs would take effect and at which rate. Let's bring the anchor of CNBC's Worldwide Exchange, Frank Haaland. Frank, so good morning. We're back to talking about tariffs on our allies, including Canada. The rationale for those new tariffs are that the Canadians aren't doing enough to stop the flow of fentanyl. It's worth pointing out here that a vanishingly small amount of the fentanyl that comes into the United States comes through Canada, 99% of it comes up through Mexico. So how are markets, how's the economy going to react to these new tariffs? And then the idea that there are going to be blanket tariffs on everybody else.
- [18:27]
Joe Scarborough
Well, Willie, good morning to you. Maybe it's irony, maybe it's a jinx, but as you mentioned, just a day after the President told Kristen Welker, the markets seem to be absorbing these tariffs fairly well, we see a big reaction with the S and P. The Nasdaq both falling about a half a percent in the pre market. So I think the question is why now? Why are we seeing this market reaction now? Well, we spoke to a number of analysts on my show, Worldwide Exchange earlier. They say it's because Canada is a major trade partner and they're very concerned about the broader reacceleration of tariffs with the president again, as you mentioned, threatening blanket tariffs of 15 to 20%. That also could possibly further delay Federal Reserve cuts that would be another catalyst for the US Markets. Now, we've heard some Fed officials say they would be okay with cuts. And we all saw the Fed minutes this week show there was an appetite for cuts. We also know the Jay Powell said the Fed more than likely would have already cut if not for tariffs. I was speaking to a CEO in the transport space where broad exposure to most US Industries. They told me the passing of that one big beautiful bill has strengthened corporate confidence, but that could be shaken by more shifts in tariff policy. And also they still do want to see Fed cuts. So some of the shaken, shaken corporate confidence that could potentially impact hiring and maybe even Wall Street. Want to turn back to Wall Street. Excuse me, Main street.
- [19:38]
Andrea Mitchell
All right. CNBC's Frank Holland, thank you very much. All right. Today, one week after fatal floodwater surged through the Texas hill country, an urgent search continues for 166 people still missing. Rescue teams are using cadaver dogs to try and locate people as they comb through the mountains of debris left behind by last Friday's torrential storm that killed at least 121 people, nearly 40 of them children. At this hour, many questions remain about whether enough was done to warn residents and to prepare them for the rapidly rising waters. According to new reporting, Texas officials inspected Camp mystic and noted that there was a disaster plan in place just two days before the storm swept through the camp, killing at least 27 campers and staff members. New reporting also revealed that local officials have long been aware of the risks. Writing in a report last year, quote, it is likely that Kerr county will experience a flood event in the next year. And noting that one solution would be a flood warning system to alert residents to surging waters. All right, Willie, everyone agrees today.
- [20:58]
Richard Haass
Yeah. In flash flood alley, President Trump and first lady Melania Trump will travel to Texas later this morning to visit those areas dead devastated by last week's floods. In that same phone conversation we mentioned with Kristen Welker, the president said in part, after having seen this horrible event, I would imagine you'd put alarms up in some form. But the president did not blame local officials for the lack of those alarms, saying nobody ever saw a thing like this coming. This is a once in every 200 year deal. The president also defended Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem and FEMA's response, adding he does not know anything about recent reporting that the disaster agency's response to the flood has been slowed by nome's cost controls in the department. So Joe Meeka, president of the United States, will be there on the ground just one week after this. Just horrific. The more stories you hear about it event in Texas.
- [21:52]
Joe Scarborough
Yeah, and of course, we keep hearing that this was actually foreseeable. Of course. New York Times reporting this morning that, that Kerr county said we're going to have another flood event, most likely in the next year. And they said that over the past year and that they needed a warning system. I mean, it's, it's, the negligence is, is just horrific and there's no getting around that.
- [22:20]
Andrea Mitchell
We'll be following the president and first lady's visit to Kerr county throughout the day here on msnbc. And still ahead on MORNING joe, President Trump is reportedly interested in new Russia sanctions, but there's a catch. We'll explain that. Plus, MSNBC legal correspondent Lisa Rubin will explain the trove of internal communications turned over by a whistleblower against the Trump administration. And a reminder, the Morning Joe podcast is available each weekday featuring our full conversations and analysis. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. You're watching MORNING Joe, so we'll be right back.
- [23:11]
Sam Stein
The bottom line is, even as the Trump administration tries to end abortion access, slash funding and shut down health centers, Planned Parenthood continues its vital work without flinching. The assault on reproductive health is strategic and persistent. And who gets hurt the most? Women, people of color, rural communities, folks with low incomes, the people who already face the biggest barriers to care. If you believe everyone deserves to control their own body and future, donate now@plannedparenthood.org defend.
- [23:43]
Joe Scarborough
When work gets crazy, I like to stop by the bar after, have a few cold ones.
- [23:48]
Andrea Mitchell
I don't drink at all until 4 o'.
- [23:51]
Sam Stein
Clock.
- [23:52]
Joe Scarborough
We limit ourselves to one bottle of wine a night.
- [23:55]
Mika Brzezinski
Excessive drinking has a way of sneaking up on us. A few drinks a few nights a.
- [24:00]
Willie Geist
Week, it can add up.
- [24:01]
Mika Brzezinski
And suddenly we're at greater risk for long term problems like heart disease, cancer and depression. Reason enough to rethink to Drink more@rethinktodrink.com Noyche Initiative.
- [24:12]
Sam Stein
We all belong outside. We're drawn to nature, whether it's the recorded sounds of the ocean we doze off to or the succulent that adorn our homes. Nature makes all of our lives, well, better. Despite all this, we often go about our busy lives removed from it. But the outdoors is closer than we realize. With alltrails, you can discover trails nearby and explore confidently with offline maps and on trail navigation. Download the free app today.
- [24:49]
Andrea Mitchell
At 23 past the hour. A live look at Capitol Hill for you this morning as the sun comes up over Washington. Secretary of State Marco Rubio met with China's foreign minister during the second day of a summit in Malaysia earlier this morning. It follows Rubio's meeting yesterday with Russia's foreign minister, which focused on the war in Ukraine. Afterward, the secretary spoke to reporters about the gathering and what the Trump administration wants to see.
- [25:19]
Joe Scarborough
Well, our strategy is to continue to engage all the parties that are involved in finding an outcome to this conflict. We will engage anytime that we have an opportunity to do so. Like we did today. I echoed what the president has said, both disappointment and frustration at the lack of progress in peace talks or in a path forward. So we'll continue to engage. We shared some ideas and comments which I'll take back back to Washington as early as this evening in terms of calls and reflected, and perhaps there's something to build on there. I expressed what the president has said publicly, which is that we feel as if we've dedicated a lot of time and energy to this matter and just not enough progress has been made. We need to see a roadmap moving forward about how this conflict can conclude. And then we shared some ideas about what that might look like.
- [26:10]
Andrea Mitchell
Meanwhile, Russia has escalated its attacks on Ukrainian territory this week, launching a combined total of well over 1,000 missiles and drones around the country. President Trump said in that phone interview with NBC's Kristen Welker he will have a major statement to release on Monday regarding the conflict. He did not provide further details. With us, we have the co host of our fourth hour, contributing writer at the Atlantic, Jonathan Lemire, and senior Washington columnist for Politico, Rachel B. Joins us. Good to have you, Rachel. And Jonathan Lemire, any more to add about these plans on Monday that the president will be announcing?
- [26:53]
Mika Brzezinski
Jonathan lemire, yeah, the president has been weighing some time now what to do with Russia. We have, as been discussed, his public frustration with Vladimir Putin has increased. Ukraine long ago agreed to a ceasefire. The US Put forth. Moscow not only has not done that, but rather has escalated its attacks on Ukraine. The president, as we know, has at times has blustered against Putin but not followed through with action. There's a sense that maybe, just maybe that may be on the verge of changing. We know that in the Senate, Lindsey Graham for Republicans, Senator Blumenthal for Democrats have put forth a pretty tough sanctions bill, including secondary sanctions. Has 80 odd supporters there in the upper chamber. Graham earlier this week said that he believed President Trump was ready to sign on. I would. I was told and reported yesterday that the president not quite there yet, but it's a fluid situation. He does seem willing to be to support something perhaps not as significant or as severe as that sanctions package. But we simply, it's still being worked out. And as he teased this in his interview yesterday with NBC, an announcement on Monday, but it's not quite clear what that is. But there is a sense, guys, that this is a moment where something needs to change, that that Russia is with its fleet of drones only escalating its targets on civilians in Ukraine. It's a frozen conflict at the front lines. They're striking civilians. Horrible images come forth, some of which the President has seen, I am told. But it's not quite clear yet what that follow through will be. There's still hopes of talks for a diplomatic solution. But will the President pressure Moscow to get there? We'll find out, Rachel.
- [28:33]
Richard Haass
As John says, Putin is operating right now with near impunity, attacks civilian targets. And you write this morning that the President is sort of sanctions curious when it comes to Russia, that he understands that. Senator Lindsey Graham, Speaker Mike Johnson support this sanctions package. But you say he's willing to go along with it. With a catch. What's the catch?
- [28:53]
G
Yeah, look, he wants total authority. He wants to be able to turn on these sanctions and turn them off depending on how his conversations with Putin go. I mean, typically Congress has authority to slap sanctions on other countries. And this current, I believe the draft allows for the President to waive those sanctions for about 180 days, potentially another 180 days. Graham has been sort of negotiating with him on that second round of waiver, but he wants complete authority here. And this sort of goes back to how the White House views foreign policy.
- [29:23]
Andrea Mitchell
Right.
- [29:24]
G
They sort of ignore the fact that the conscious, the Constitution does talk about the war powers and authority over tariffs and trade that the Congress has. They view him as this sort of end all, be all when it comes to foreign policy. And I think a lot of this, you know, the discussion about this centers on, you know, what is the end game here. I think for a lot of these Republican senators They do not think Putin is ever going to come to the table. They just don't. They think that he wants to take over Ukraine, that he's not going to back down, and that no sort of force of personality that Donald Trump may have is going to change that. But I'm told from people in the White House that the president views this sanctions bill specifically as a way to get Putin back to the table. I mean, he's angry. You can see it in his tone change. He wants this to end. He wants this war to end. And he is putting a lot of his reputation on the line, saying that he wants this war to end and not being able to close. So he wants to see a change, and this could potentially be it. But again, he needs, he's saying he needs that waiver authority before he fully signs on.
- [30:24]
Mika Brzezinski
And there's no question that we've seen this since day one of his administration, this president trying to find ways to expand executive power. This would be another way potentially to do that as they debate what exactly, exactly to do. Richard. So as the White House sorts out the sanctions bill or perhaps other measures here, and we should remind viewers, of course, President Trump has blustered against Putin before and threatened action and has never followed through. So pass his prologue. Maybe he won't hear either. Perhaps this time will be different. Is this sanctions bill, though? What do you make of it, do you think? Something like this, whether it's this precise bill or something close to it, will that be enough to get Putin to the table, to get the violence system stop?
- [31:02]
Willie Geist
In a word, no. The sanctions bill isn't all that substantive. These are what are called secondary or indirect sanctions. They don't sanction Russia so much as the countries that buy oil and gas from Russia, China, India, Turkey. Well, if we introduce new sanctions against China, guess what? They're going to stop exporting rare earth minerals to us. Not clear. We can sustain that. India, we're trying to cultivate, in part, to push back against China. So, again, I understand the desire to penalize Russia. I'm not sure this has much teeth to it. If this president and this administration wants to get Putin to the table, I only know one way. Jonathan. Significant military and intelligence help for Ukraine. Enough. So Putin concludes, however reluctantly, that time is not going to win this war for him. That's what the President needs to do. Sanctions are a third best approach, particularly secondary sanctions. They're really on the margins. The real issue is the duration and scale of American support for Ukraine. What we saw in the last few days as you know, a slight reversal, universal, what appears to be, in terms of allowing the provision one way or another of defensive arms, quote, unquote, to Ukraine. But what we really need to do is expand that and send a signal. We're going to do that for as long as it takes until and even after Putin comes to the table.
- [32:16]
Richard Haass
Rachel, want to talk a little domestic politics with you as well, because you're writing about Joni Ernst and some concerns among her Senate colleagues that she may step away and retire, joining Thom Tillis of North Carolina, of course, Mitch McConnell as well, opening up a seat there in the state of Iowa. What is going in, do you think, to her decision here to stay or to go?
- [32:39]
G
Yeah, look, I mean, she has sort of gone through some of the motions suggesting that she could run again. She just hired a campaign manager. She's raised about a million dollars for her potential reelection effort, which is not super impressive, but it's also not nothing. But behind the scenes, I'm hearing Senate from Republicans that they just don't see the fight in her anymore. And she has told people recently that she hasn't even decided whether she wants to run again. And the reason for that? Well, there's a few, actually. Number one is that she previously was in leadership. Tom Cotton, who is actually a close friend of hers, ran against her and totally ousted her from that position. I'm told that she actually felt rather betrayed, and that was a huge sore point for her for a while. And then, remember, back in January, she totally got dragged by MAGA influencers online when she was sort of holding out her support for Pete Hegseth, obviously had a lot of concerns about him. Ultimately, she voted for him. But that was after this really ugly campaign where she was basically made an example of by the White House and White House allies. They even suggested that she wanted the job herself, which I was told at the time was totally false, a smear campaign against her. And that has sort of stuck with her. I mean, even her Senate Republican colleagues saw that and were like, wow, okay, we don't want that to happen to us. We're gonna get in line. And so between both of those things, you know, it hasn't been exactly a great year for her. She had this quote just a few months ago where she, you know, in that town hall, you guys talked about it on your show, where she said, you know, everybody's going to die when a constituent suggested that these Medicaid cuts they just passed would actually kill people. And that was obviously very tone deaf, politically insensitive but you know, it's interesting she would still win this race. Republicans think she would easily win this race. This is not exactly a state that Democrats have high hopes of picking up, although that could change if Trump's poll numbers tank and Republicans really face a huge backlash for this bill. But in theory, she would easily be reelected. It's just Republicans say her heart might not actually be in it.
- [34:40]
Joe Scarborough
Well, you know, Rachel, it's so interesting as you write in your piece, she was always seen as an up and comer, somebody, you know, future of the Republican Party from the time she got elected in 2014. But boy, it has been a very rough year. And I think a lot of members of Congress find out that actually sometimes it's easier to be in Congress when the president in the other party is sitting in the White House and when the president, your own party sitting in the White House. But yeah, there was we're all going to die comment. There was that bizarre attempt at humor in a graveyard soon after that. But I want you to go back to the Hegseth nomination. She obviously, for many reasons that you cited your piece, she obviously had a lot of reasons to be deeply concerned about Pete Hagseth.
- [35:29]
Andrea Mitchell
And to be a no.
- [35:31]
Joe Scarborough
And to be a no straight up. We heard an awful lot, I'm sure you heard an awful lot about the level of abuse that she took, not just from people directly related to the White House, but also from MAGA supporters and, and threats, just sort of things that she found at the time to be overwhelming. Talk about that and how that may actually, at the end of the day be driving this more than anything else. Where and I've seen other members say this before, it's just not worth it. It's not worth it for my family. It's not worth it for me.
- [36:07]
Andrea Mitchell
Yeah.
- [36:08]
G
My understanding is those threats on her reached the level of death threats at the time. And it wasn't just her. I was told by people close to her that it was members of her family. I mean, you know, she has a daughter who is serving in the armed forces. And you know, she also has staff she loves and I know her staff. They were also being harassed. Now, whether or not that was why she made her decision, ultimately, I cannot, cannot speak to that. Obviously, she has said that she did the research and looked into these women who had these allegations against Hegseth and ultimately decided that there was no proof and she supported him. But you're right, I mean, there was a lot of reason to think that she would, wouldn't ultimately be there. And I certainly didn't think she was going to vote for him for confirmation. Part of that is because she has this sort of long history of supporting, you know, women in the military who said they have been, you know, sexually harassed, sexually abused. You know, she has legislation with Kirsten Gillibrand. Like, I did an event with them one time. It's something she's very passionate about. She's a survivor of sexual abuse herself. She served in the military as well. And so, yeah, I was obviously very skeptical that she would ever get there. But ultimately, if you remember back, it was actually Thom Tillis who was the one who came this close to voting against Hagseth and did his own investigation. Spoke to a lot of people involved. I never heard about any of that with Joni Ernst and whether she actually did that. And in fact, there was reporting indicating that reporters had actually, I'm sorry, not reporters, some of the victims, survivors, I should say, or people who had alleged abuse against Hegseth had actually reached out through intermediaries to her. And she never just took the conversations. So here we are.
- [37:47]
Andrea Mitchell
Wow. POLITICO's Rachel Bain, thank you so much for coming on this morning with your reporting. Please come back. Great to have you. And President Emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations Richard Haass. Thank you as well as always, Joe. Red Sox coming up. Why Elon Musk's push to start a third party may actually succeed where others fall flat. That conversation straight ahead on Morning. Jo.
- [38:23]
Sam Stein
Close your eyes, exhale, feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying. Today, while I'm letting go of the.
- [38:32]
Andrea Mitchell
Worry that I wouldn't get my new.
- [38:33]
Sam Stein
Contacts in time for this class, I I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh my gosh, they're so fast.
- [38:39]
Mika Brzezinski
And breathe.
- [38:40]
Sam Stein
Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order.
- [38:45]
G
Oh, sorry.
- [38:46]
Sam Stein
Namaste.
- [38:48]
Andrea Mitchell
Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order.
- [38:51]
Joe Scarborough
1-800-Contacts.
- [38:53]
Sam Stein
We all belong outside.
- [38:55]
Andrea Mitchell
We're drawn to nature.
- [38:56]
Sam Stein
Whether it's the recorded sounds of the ocean we doze off to or the succulents that adorned in our homes. Nature makes all of our lives, well, better. Despite all this, we often go about our busy lives removed from it. But the outdoors is closer than we realize. With alltrails, you can discover trails nearby and explore confidently with offline maps and on trail navigation. Download the free app today.
- [39:25]
Mika Brzezinski
This season, let your shoes do the talking. Designer Shoe Warehouse is packed with fresh styles that Speak to your whole vibe.
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Richard Haass
Without saying a word.
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Joe Scarborough
From cool sneakers that look good with.
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Mika Brzezinski
Everything to easy sandals you'll want to wear on repeat, DSW has you covered. Find a shoe for every u from the brands you love like Birkenstock, Nike, Adidas, New Balance and more. Head to your DSW store or visit dsw.com today.
- [39:59]
Richard Haass
Beautiful live picture on a beautiful morning in Washington. That's the White House 641 1. On this Friday, a former Justice Department attorney who was dismissed from his position has handed over emails and text messages to the Senate Judiciary Committee supporting his whistleblower complaint against Emile Beauvais, a top department official who is currently being considered for a seat on the federal bench. Erez Ruvini's initial complaint was filed last month and included the allegation that Bovet told Justice Department lawyers they would need to consider telling the courts f you and ignore any such such court order blocking efforts to remove immigrants to El Salvador. Joining us now, MSNBC legal correspondent former litigator Lisa Rubin. Her new piece on msnbc.com is titled forget the F Bomb. One email really stands out in Emile Beauvais whistleblowers records. Lisa, good morning. Good to see you. Before we get to that email that stands out to you, I think it's worth taking a step back, reminding people who Emile Beauvais is exactly and why there is this whistleblower complaint against him.
- [41:04]
Sam Stein
So Willie ML Bovey is now the principal assistant deputy attorney general. That's a nice way of saying he is the second in command to Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanch. But more importantly, for these purposes, he is also a nominee to a lifetime tenured position on the U.S. court of Appeals for the Third Circuit. That's the federal appeals court that oversees Delaware and New Jersey and Pennsylvania. And Emil Bovey has found himself and a bunch of controversies already in the very short time since the Trump administration has been back in power. Most importantly, he was the chief lawyer who helped architect the deal with Eric Adams. He defended that deal in court and got the Eric Adams indictment dismissed, leading to the resignation or firings of multiple Justice Department lawyers. Amel Bovey is also at the center, according to a former immigration lawyer at the Department of Justice named Erez Ruvaney, who you just discussed. Emil Bovey, according to him, is at the center of the administration's legal strategy with respect to its immigration agenda. Everything from that Alien Enemies act case that resulted from the administration flying over 100 Venezuelan men under the Alien Enemies act to El Salvador, imprisoning them there to the case of Kima Abrego Garcia, the El Salvadoran man who was also on one of those flights and was wrongfully imprisoned at seacot for several months before he was ultimately returned to the United States on a criminal indictment.
- [42:35]
Mika Brzezinski
So, Lisa, let's talk about that email that jumped out to you. And also just this bigger picture here, the idea that if he can't be trusted to follow through on a court order on this particular case, what does that say about him having a Senate confirmed position?
- [42:53]
Sam Stein
It's really scary, right, because the Senate is being asked to confirm Emil Bovey as a judge to a federal appeals court where his responsibilities are going to be reviewing lower court orders and where appropriate, upholding them. If you can't follow a court order, the idea that you would then be put in a position to uphold the orders of lower courts themselves is very scary. And let's talk about that email, Jonathan, if we can, because the email that jumps out to me, and there's a been a lot of, a lot of press coverage of Emil Bovey convening a meeting, according to Erez Rouvini, before the Alien Enemies act flights took off and telling people at the Department of Justice in a small meeting that they should be prepared to tell the courts fu if the courts were to issue a contrary order blocking them. Put that aside for a second. To me, what's far more pernicious is an email from another department lawyer named Yaakov Roth where he is telling Erez Ruvini and a couple of other people that he had been told by Todd Blanche's office that Emil Bovey advised the Department of Homeland Security that it was okay to take people off of those flights in El Salvador after they had landed, even though the federal judge here, Judge Jim Boasberg, had told the Department of Justice in no uncertain terms on a call that was transcribed. You must turn these planes around. And nonetheless, what does Emil Bovey do? According to a colleague of his, he tells the Department of Home Homeland Security not only is it safe for the plans to lane go ahead and deplane those people, what happens after you deplane them? Those guys go to Seekot. And the footage that we all saw.
- [44:29]
Mika Brzezinski
Lisa, it's Sam Stein here. I have two questions. One is, what is the actual correct, correct pronunciation of M above? No, that's not my real question, although I am confused about the actual pronunciation. My question is just to step back a little bit. He's nominated for the Third Circuit Court of Appeals even before this whistleblower complaint. And these emails were produced. There was real questions about the nomination in legal circles because he is such a loyalist, because of the work that he did dropping the charges into Eric Adams, because of the fact that he had fired some of the prosecutors who were handling Jason's cases. Putting aside the politics, if we can just talk a little bit about how shocking this is. But been in legal circles where you have even Federalist Society types saying we cannot have people on the judiciary who are just mere loyalists to the president.
- [45:19]
Sam Stein
Well, first of all, his name is pronounced Amel Bovey. He is perhaps the best known figure in Trump world with the worst pronounced name. But let's go back to the question that you asked about how shocking is it that Emil Bovey has been nominated to this position? Not shocking at all. Because what the president really prioritizes, Sam, over winning is fidelity to him at all costs. Performance is totally secondary to are you willing to execute on his orders. We should not be surprised that that is the litmus test for Trump nominations. It's not ideological purity. It is are you full in with this administration? So by that stretch of the imagination, this isn't shocking. However, you are right to say that for legal observers, the sort of thumbing your nose at the rule of law that you can see from Emil Bovey and more importantly from a host of other people in the Trump administration across these emails, I hope we'll have an opportunity to talk about what else is in Erez Reuveni's texts and emails. Because across the board, you are seeing a group of people that are thinking first and foremost about their policy objectives and secondarily about how to evade sort of discipline by the court. There's one point at which someone asks Eric, as a State Department official says, what would be the consequences of ignoring a court order? And Rouvainy is sort of flummoxed by that. And one of the things he says in response that I think puts the lie to the accusation that he is just a disgruntled partisan who wants to take Imma Bovi down, is what he says in response, which is if we were to ignore a court order that comes down, one of the consequences he is that we would make bad law that would put a whole host of other immigration priorities this administration has at risk. That's not the statement of somebody who's looking to take the Trump administration, much less Emil Bovey down. That's somebody who's being pragmatic and saying, you have lots of things that you want to do and if you flout a court order with respect to a particular individual here. He's referring to Kim Arabic Garcia, you're putting your entire agenda at risk. That's not what somebody says when they're, you know, a radical progressive.
- [47:36]
Andrea Mitchell
Right, right.
- [47:37]
Joe Scarborough
And just, just speaking truth to power there. I mean, I remember at the beginning of the first term when President Trump then in 2017 attacked a judge on the West Coast. I think he's out of Washington state. And, and I spoke with somebody close to a federal judge who's very conservative, federal society judge. And they said then and the truth then still holds now as Lisa was just basically suggesting an attack against one federal judge is seen as an attack against all federal judges, regardless of ideology you ignore or one order. You have just put yourself in line for a lot more problems in immigration cases and other cases as well. It's just that simple. That's a reality. And yeah, nobody's like a left wing ideologue for suggesting that. That's just the truth. You just make your job much harder.
- [48:38]
Andrea Mitchell
MSNBC legal correspondent Lisa Rubin, thank you very much for coming on this morning. And you, you can check out Lisa's show. Can they do that on MSNBC's YouTube channel? I love the title Managing editor at the Bulwark, Sam Stein, thank you as well. Always great to see you, Sam.
- [48:56]
Joe Scarborough
Red Sox seven game winning streak.
- [49:00]
Mika Brzezinski
Here we are.
- [49:02]
Joe Scarborough
Their rookies are really coming through like crazy. And Sidon, Rafael just, I mean, how good has he been over this week? Ron?
- [49:12]
Mika Brzezinski
Well, Sedan's been amazing. Roman Anthony has lived up to the hype. Marcella Meyer, I was worried they were going to send him back down, but he's been great. That, oh, look at that sweet swing. Just this thing of beauty. But really it's the pitching, Joe.
- [49:23]
Joe Scarborough
Right?
- [49:23]
Mika Brzezinski
I mean like the pitching had been just a disappointment all year long. Suddenly the people, our rotation looks decent. Even Walker Bueller was like serviceable last night. So seven row. Not getting my hopes up, not, not going to get hooked in, but I'm feeling pretty good.
- [49:40]
Joe Scarborough
Well, I mean it's important to remember, I mean this, this Red Sox team, Jonathan Lemaire was extremely hot last year at this time and then collapsed after the All Star break. Collapsed after the trade deadline as they have for the past two or three years in part because front office didn't pick up anything. I do want to say something though because the front office has been knocked around a lot this year. You look, look, if you were to name the three or four best players that the Red Sox have this year, of course, let's just Move Saddan to the side. I'm talking the whole year. You talk about Garrett Crochet. You certainly would talk about Chapman. Holy cow. You talk about Narvaez. I mean, those three right there. And before he got hurt, you talk about Bregman. All four of those players. All four of those players we got in the off season. That was. And I know Walker Bueller has had some problems, but he's had two serviceable starts. He had a quality start last night. You add what the front office has done with the farm system, and I agree with Sam. I mean, sending down Meyer would have been a colossal mistake. I love David, Hamill, Hamilton, but he needed to go down. Meyer needs to play every day, play at second base every day. I think Lou was saying this last night. He plays at second base every day. You have Trevor at shortstop every day. You have Bregman at third base every day. You don't do all of this platooning, you're going to have an incredible defense for the first time in a long time in Boston.
- [51:16]
Mika Brzezinski
Yeah. First of all, yes, you're right. The ownership group, which has received fair criticism for not spending a lot of money in recent years, they did this past offseason season. It's paid dividends. Bregman back tonight. Huge lift for the Sox there. They miss his bat and his glove. We could also add Lucas, Giulio being a revelation in the last four months to a year from injury. So the big picture, Joe, you're right. The last couple years, the team has not made a move. They have not been buyers at the deadline, and the team is kind of swooned almost immediately afterwards. Every year. This year, look, the schedule gets a lot harder after the All Star break. Oh, the deadline approaches, coaching. But they're close. They're. They're. Right now, they're. They are the third wild card right now. They're only a handful of games out of the division. They can make some sort of run here, be buyers. If they're going to be trades here, and there's some big names being mentioned.
- [52:05]
Joe Scarborough
Yeah.
- [52:06]
Mika Brzezinski
But make sure it's a trade to make them better this season. Don't be looking towards next year. Just quickly, is there a way that we could play the Rockies every Series? Like, can we make that deal?
- [52:17]
Joe Scarborough
That would be awesome. I would absolutely love that. But I. I really do think that what's swirling around right now, one of my favorite players, if not my favorite player, Duran, I. I think that they're looking at trading him to get a great pitcher if they can get a Great pitcher to go along with crochet. They'll do it. Willie, we have to talk about the Yankees. They have had. They have had. Yeah, we do have to talk about the Yankees. It's rude. We have Willie here and all we're doing is talking about the Red Sox. Yankees obviously had a very rough run, but man, a big come from behind victory last night for the Yankees and you know, this is baseball. Everything balances out. My prediction remains the same, Willie. If the Yankees don't win the World Series in five, I got to consider this year a failure for the team from the Bronx.
- [53:06]
Richard Haass
Listen, we're all, we're all living in the Blue Jays world just hoping to get a nibble on something in the wild. This was, we were down, the Yankees were down five. Nothing being no hit into the seventh inning if you went to bed and turned it off. They came all the way back, tied the game in the ninth inning. And then this was the scene in the 10th inning. Bases loaded, Sac fly. Really shallow ball actually by judge. But look at the slide by Volpe. Should have been out if not for a great slide. He avoids the tag, gets his right hand in there. They reviewed it. He was, was clearly in safely. Big win. Now the Yankees have won four in a row after a truly dreadful, dreadful last month or so. Starting to play a little bit better. But man, the Blue Jays finally lost the other night. They are playing so well. With all that said, both of our teams, guys, Yankees and Red Sox, if the season ended today and I'd be very surprised if it did both in the playoffs, both wild card teams right now. So we're setting ourselves up for a fun late summer fall run for all of us right now.
- [54:05]
Joe Scarborough
Oh, it is going to, it is going to be a lot of fun. And breaking news right here. I'm getting from her sports desk.
- [54:11]
Andrea Mitchell
Yeah, it's a shot.
- [54:13]
Joe Scarborough
There are baseball teams in the central time zone and the mountain time zone and also out west are coming in the Bronx tonight. Can you check and see? I, I don't know. I don't know if that's the case or not. Let's, let's. We'll do some more research over the break.
- [54:29]
Andrea Mitchell
All right. Still ahead.
- [54:32]
Sam Stein
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