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Israel says it will take control of Gaza City, escalating war with Hamas
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Israel says it will take control of Gaza City, escalating war with Hamas
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- [00:00]
Joe Scarborough
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Willie Geist
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Joe Scarborough
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Mika Brzezinski
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- [01:29]
Jon Meacham
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- [01:46]
Joe Scarborough
Oh, oh, oh, oh oh oh. Move over. Steve Ratner. Trump has charts. We're going to explain what was going on in that economic briefing yesterday in the Oval Office. Plus, today is President Trump's deadline for Russia to agree to a cease fire in Ukraine or face economic sanctions. We'll look at where those negotiations stand. Also ahead, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is making clear his intentions for Gaza. We'll bring you the latest on that escalating situation. We'll also get a live report from Austin, Texas, as Democrats continue to stall redistricting efforts. NBC's Ryan Chandler will join us after sitting down with Governor Greg Abbott. And we'll dig into the firing of A former acting FBI director who registered a DOJ directive to turn over a list of agents who had worked on January 6th cases. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Friday, August 8th. It's Friday, everybody. Let's dive right in. Secondary sanctions targeting Russia are expected to be implemented today, and that is according to two White House officials and a senior administration official. It comes as the White House is placing an additional 25% tariff on Indian exports to the United States because of Delhi's continued purchasing of Russian oil by India. Meanwhile, President Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin have agreed to meet in the coming days. Trump told reporters that Putin does not have to meet with Ukraine's Volodymyr Zelenskyy before his sit down with Trump. But Press Secretary Caroline Levitt says President Trump would like to meet with both leaders, adding that those details are still being worked out on the battlefield in Ukraine. The Wall Street Journal is highlighting the efforts by Kyiv's military to drive back Russian forces in northern Ukraine. Officers and analysts tell the paper Russia's forces have stalled in the region since mid January, mid July. While Ukraine has been able to reclaim between 4 to 6 square miles of land in the area and a few villages, it has largely stopped Russia's summer offensive so far by targeting supply lines. Ukrainian President Zelensky even traveled to the area to meet with soldiers there this week. But as the Journal also notes, Ukraine remains outnumbered in the area and may struggle to build on its momentum. Joe.
- [04:34]
Jon Meacham
Well, so here we have, we heard about the spring offensive that was going to be coming by Ukraine a few years ago. It never really materialized. We've been hearing about this summer offensive by the Russians also not materializing. They have more troops, but those troops are getting slaughtered in numbers that are sickening to Moscow, maybe not to Vladimir Putin, but, but, but to many Russians, those numbers are absolutely sickening. They continue and it just proves once again what most military analysts have been saying for a few years now. We are locked in a World War I style stalemate. Let's bring in right now, live from London, NBC News foreign correspondent Raf Sanchez. RAF Interesting backdrop, that Wall Street Journal story and also other reporting in the region about the stalled summer certainly may give Donald Trump a bit of a stronger hand as he goes into negotiate with a man who does not want this war to end. Vladimir Putin, what do you know?
- [05:35]
Raf Sanchez
Yeah. Joe Omega, good morning. President Trump reiterating yesterday in the Oval Office that he is disappointed with Vladimir Putin's determination to press on with this war. But there is a lot of uncertainty about where the administration's policy goes from here. We have this talk of President Trump sitting down with Vladimir Putin in person, potentially in the coming days. But as yet, there's no exact timeline for when that meeting could happen. There's no exact venue. Vladimir Putin suggesting yesterday before the cameras in front of the Kremlin, that the United Arab Emirates, that powerful Gulf country that is close to both the US And Russia, could be a neutral ground for that meeting to happen. Now, the president was also asked whether he plans to press ahead with this Friday deadline with imposing these sanctions on Russia, given that this meeting is coming up. The president a little unclear. He said it would depend on Vladimir Putin. He said that he was waiting to see what the president, what the Russian leader would say. So at this point, it really is not clear when exactly these sanctions will go into place, what form they would take, and potentially if they will actually go ahead. The other thing that does appear to be slipping is White House officials had said that this meeting between President Trump and President Putin, Putin would also need to include some kind of a meeting between Putin and Zelensky. But President Trump in the Oval yesterday seemed to be suggesting that that was no longer an American red line. He seemed to say that it was worth meeting Putin to hear what the Russian leader has to say with or without a sit down between Zelenskyy and the Russian leader. So a lot of major questions outstanding right now. Zelenskyy for his part, saying that Ukraine must absolutely be included in any of these negotiations and that there should be no talks about Ukraine without Ukraine, guys.
- [07:36]
Jon Meacham
Right. And, and it sounds as if there's also now possibility. And of course, this is moving pretty quickly based on your reporting and other bit of a shuttle diplomacy where President Trump may speak to Vladimir Putin first, then may speak to with Ukraine's leader, Zelensky. Is that a possibility? And is that a possibility of having them in the same location, wherever that may be. And he just goes from a meeting with Putin to a meeting with Zelensky?
- [08:09]
Raf Sanchez
Yeah, that's definitely a possibility, Joe. But if you think about that format, just the risks involved of an American president flying to the other side of the world and then potentially being a little bit of a hostage to whatever Vladimir Putin decides in the room. Imagine if President Trump is not given anything substantial that he could carry across that hallway, metaphorical or literal, and deliver it to Zelenskyy. You know, the longstanding position in the US Government had been under the Biden administration anyway, that a sit down with Vladimir Putin is a victory for the Russians, unless it comes with an agreement in advance that there will be major concessions. It does not appear at this point that there is any such agreement. It is not clear what exactly President Trump would walking into and what he could deliver coming out of one of those meetings. Jeff.
- [09:02]
Jon Meacham
Obviously, Willie, a lot of concern around the president, a lot of concern around Zelinsky's team that Vladimir Putin has handed just a cheap and easy propaganda victory. So that's why it's going to be so fascinating to see how the White House tries to set this up, to see what Russia is going to have to concede before getting that meeting.
- [09:27]
Dom Chu
Yeah, absolutely. And for the president of the United States, as Raf said, to travel to a meeting like this, I mean, we know Donald Trump. He likes to bring people to the White House to Mar a Lago where he's in control would be an extraordinary step and as Raf also pointed out, perhaps a dangerous one. It would probably be surprising, I would suggest, if he didn't go without some kind of a concession. But we will find out. The president's also grappling with what is happening right now in the Middle East. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says Israel intends now to take control of the entirety of the Gaza Strip. On social media earlier this morning, his office posted a series of goals which Israel's security cabinet voted in favor of yesterday, including taking control of Gaza City, which is among the quarter of the enclave it currently does not hold. The other goals include disarming Hamas, the return of all hostages, the demilitarization of Gaza and establishing security control of that territory. Prime Minister Netanyahu offered more detail in an interview yesterday with Fox News.
- [10:29]
Jon Meacham
Will Israel take control of all of Gaza?
- [10:33]
Raf Sanchez
We intend to, in order to assure our security, remove Hamas there, enable the population to be free of Gaza and.
- [10:43]
Jon Meacham
To pass it to civilian governance. That is not Hamas and not anyone.
- [10:47]
Raf Sanchez
Advocating the destruction of Israel.
- [10:50]
Jon Meacham
That's what we want to do. Are you saying today that you will take control of the entire 26 mile Gaza Strip as it was 20 years ago to this month in 2005? Well, we don't want to keep it. We want to have a security perimeter. We don't want to govern it. We don't want to be there as a governing body. We want to hand it over to.
- [11:12]
Raf Sanchez
Arab forces that will govern it properly without threatening us and giving Gazans a good life. That's not possible with Hamas.
- [11:22]
Dom Chu
So, Rav, help us fill in the blanks here. Prime Minister Netanyahu says he wants the Israeli military to occupy the entirety of Gaza, that entire strip, to go in, but not to keep it, then to turn it over to a yet unnamed Arab security force. What more can you tell us about this plan?
- [11:39]
Raf Sanchez
Yeah, Willie, as you're indicating, there are a lot of blanks in this plan. So Israel's security cabinet held this marathon meeting last night. They voted in the early hours of the morning Israel time to approve a plan to send the Israeli military in to seize control of Gaza City. Now that on its face is a little more limited than what Prime Minister Netanyahu who said to Fox News yesterday, which is that Israel plans to militarily occupy the entire Gaza Strip. It isn't clear at this point if taking Gaza City would be a first step towards eventually taking control of the entire Strip. There is deep opposition among Israel's military leadership. Nearly two years into this war. There is a feeling that Israel has achieved militarily all it can. And yet the politicians are sending the generals in now to ramp up this military offensive. There is deep concern, Willie, among the families of Israeli hostages we have seen in the past Hamas executing Israeli hostages when IDF troops draw near. They are deeply, deeply frightened. The families of these roughly 20 or so surviving Israeli hostages that you could see something similar as Israeli forces sweep in again on the ground. And then as you say, there is this major question about who controls Gaza on the other side of this war. Netanyahu saying there that he wants to see an Arab force governing it. He is not saying who that is. We heard a unanimous statement from the Arab League last week saying that they believe Hamas should give up control in Gaza, that they should lay down their weapons and that they should hand over control to the Palestinian Authority, the internationally recognized Palestinian semi government. But in that security cabinet vote overnight, the Israeli government explicitly saying they will not allow the Palestinian Authority to take control of Gaza. So at this point, despite fighting for nearly two years, it remains deeply, deeply unclear whether Netanyahu has any kind of long term plan for Gaza. He does say Israel doesn't want to stay there long term. It's worth saying that is not necessarily a consensus position inside the Israeli government. Some of the far right members of his cabinet would like to see Israeli settlements reestablished in Gaza on the other side of the scale. Willie.
- [13:58]
Jon Meacham
All right, NBC, Raf Sanchez, thank you so much. We greatly appreciate your reporting. Let's bring in Jonathan Lemire right now. John, no doubt about it, there will be many, many people in the world community that find this a very disturbing move. There'll be many people inside of Gaza Obviously outraged by it. But I don't think we can overstate how, how against this plan. Many generals and the IDF and Israel's own on military feel about this. They are against this. They've been to Gaza before. They've tried to occupy it before. There's a reason they gave it up in 2005. Same thing with the hostage families. This is a nightmare for the hostage families. Many obviously upset that Netanyahu's government hasn't worked more aggressively on, on this front and releasing the hostages that Donald Trump was able to do with a couple of phone calls and a little bit of pressure, what Netanyahu had not been able to do. But here you have a situation where Gaza is starving to death, and we're hearing reports not only of, of atrocities committed against those that are trying to get that, that food and that aid from Israel, but we're, we're also hearing that Hamas is stopping a large percentage of trucks from coming in there. So the question is, what would Israel do differently? And how soon would these Arab states who have been volunteering quietly behind the scenes to bring in peacekeeping forces, how long would that be? It seems like a long and tragic quagmire lying ahead for all sides here.
- [15:59]
Carlos Curbelo
Yeah, it can't be overstated just how harrowing and desperate the situation is in Gaza and where we could be going. First, to the point about the hostages, you're right. A number of hostage families have denounced this plan, fearing that the remaining hostages could be killed in the Israeli invasion that could be coming, or perhaps by their Hamas captors as they're fleeing. You're right to highlight, Joe, of course, this desperate famine situation. Some Israel has increased a little the amount of aid that's gotten into Gaza in the last week or so. But some has been stolen by Hamas. Others, as you see scenes of chaos there. The situation that Israel has created since the blockade went into place a few months ago has led to a lot of violence and desperation as Palestinians there try to get even the smallest morsels of food and supplies. And the United States has also agreed.
- [16:47]
Jon Meacham
I've reported, we've talked about on the.
- [16:49]
Carlos Curbelo
Show that President Trump himself and others believe that Israel's military objectives have been accomplished there. But there's still no real push on this end to get on the United States end to get Netanyahu to change course. Raf made a key point there. This is the dream of a lot of the far right in Netanyahu's government to reoccupy Gaza, and Netanyahu is beholden to them. He needs their support to stay in power, to avoid other elections, to keep his government. Polls suggest if there were another vote, he would lose. So he's trying to placate them, and that's why we're seeing this push.
- [17:24]
Joe Scarborough
Meanwhile, countries around the world are responding to President Trump's sweeping new round of tariffs that took effect yesterday, raising import taxes to the highest level since the Great Depression. In Switzerland, the government held an emergency meeting yesterday to forge a path for future negotiations as the country faces one of the highest tariff rates in the world. Leaders in Brazil and India, two of the hardest hit countries, spoke over the phone yesterday about boosting bilateral trade. That comes as President Trump is now touting new job numbers just days after firing the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, claiming without any evidence the figures the agency released last week were rigged. Yesterday, he displayed new numbers found by an economist at the conservative Heritage Foundation. The numbers are based on unpublished data from the Census Bureau, making it difficult to verify independently.
- [18:29]
Jon Meacham
I was telling the president that he did the right thing in calling for a new head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics because this shows that over the last two years of the Biden administration, the BLS overestimated job creation by 1.5 million jobs. That's a. Mr. President, that's a gigantic error. And I don't know if she's. I'm not an error.
- [18:51]
Raf Sanchez
That's the bad part.
- [18:52]
Jon Meacham
If it was an error, it would be one thing. I don't think it's an error. I think they did it purposely. In his first five months in office, starting in January through the end of June, the average median household income, adjusted for inflation for the average family in America is already up $1,174. That's a huge, an incredible number just came out. Just, just came out. So that's a giant game. And if I would have said this, nobody would have believed. There's your number. Those, those Kinko charts brought to you by the same people that brought you Project 2025. So let's bring in right now CNBC senior markets correspondent Dom Chu down those numbers. We don't know what those numbers are. Heritage foundation, obviously, as, as, as any organization in Washington, D.C. this is the sort of thing, though I'm sure your attitude is. My attitude, it's all going to work itself out in the wash. We're going to know. You can, you can try to lie to reporters, you can try to lie to the press corps there, but you can't lie to the American people who have lost their jobs or who have trouble getting jobs are just can't keep up with their bills every, every month. So what can you tell us about what we saw in the White House yesterday and what the economy really looks like?
- [20:23]
Willie Geist
What the economy really looks like right now is all about perspective. To your point, Joe, the idea here behind at least the push by the Trump administration to kind of reframe these numbers is an attempt to try to show America that his agenda is actually working. Now, there is evidence on all kinds of fronts here with regard to whether or not that's a true statement or not. But as you point out, when you do have Stephen Moore, the economist at the Heritage foundation, kind of pointing out these numbers, there is a bigger concern on Wall street that there is now a politicization of the statistics and the data that goes into telling all of us just how good or poorly the economy is performing. If that's the case, there is a real issue on Wall street about whether or not the data is going to be something that can be relied on going forward. Now, the reason why it's a big issue is that for decades and decades now, the Labor Department, the Commerce Department, the Bureau of Labor Statistics, all of the machinations that happen with regard to data gathering and data transmission to all of the parties involved in the US Economy have always been relatively apolitical. Right. You have staffers that have been there for, you know, for years, made a career out of gathering survey data, out of counting things, out of putting that data out there so that we can all understand what's going on. Now, if there were a construct by the president right now to try to improve on what exactly is the survey methodology or the counting methodology for how we measure much of our economy with regard to GDP or jobs or anything else, then that would be welcome, if you can. If we can find a better way to do things, then I think that Wall street would be very supportive of it. But for right now, it appears as though when you march out, people who want to emphasize certain things but not others, and then you put it against a backdrop of saying that the Bureau of Labor Statistics had been manipulating the data in the past with no real evidence of that, that's what's causing some of the uncertainty. I think a lot of the conversations I've had, at least with folks on Wall street that I speak to on a normal basis, are about whether or not there is going kind of a real change to how they would gauge the health of the economy, whether or not they can feel as though they're getting an accurate picture. So that's one of the main reasons why we are seeing a little bit more of that concern now. It is not, by the way, Joe, Mika, Willie, Jonathan, translating into at least a broad market move lower. We are seeing much of the market shake off, even the tariff threat. Whatever is happening with the Bureau of Labor Statistics, there is a lot of focus right now on Steven Mirren about whether or not the Fed is going to be more dovish going forward. But that's going to be the big deal. A lot of that emphasis on where is on where rates are going to go vis a vis the economic picture right now, guys.
- [23:16]
Dom Chu
And it goes without saying that President Trump has not been critical of the BLS when those statistics went his way. But now when they don't, these statisticians are suddenly members of the deep state. So, Dom, let's talk more specifically about the tariffs that went into effect midnight yesterday. So we're just about a day and a half into these massive tariffs on some of our biggest trading partners, our allies. You had the president of Switzerland actually flying to Washington to meet with President Trump to plea to get the 39%, 39% tariffs down. A miscalculation on the number we put on Japan had to be corrected. What is the fallout right now internationally now that this day has come as promised by President Trump?
- [23:57]
Willie Geist
So the fallout internationally to your point, Willie, is far reaching. I mean, as you point out, we have world leaders now not only trying to engage with the Trump administration and the White House here with regard to trying to figure out what new deals they can cut, but they're also trying to cut deals amongst themselves on a bilateral, trilateral, unilateral basis between other parties. That is now translating into maybe what we are seeing with regard to some of the macro picture on the US Dollar. We've mentioned before that the US Dollar's value has been declining over the course of the last several months. That also means by relative extension that when the dollar declines in value, other currencies, whether they be in emerging markets or developed economies like in Europe and Asia, those currencies go up in value. That's kind of the main rubber meets the road. Market impact here with regard to the US Stock market approach, it's somewhat more mixed. I mean, to be fair, we are still near record highs in the market right now. And even with the implementation with that deadline and the tariffs going into effect on those some 90 countries and the increased tariff rates, the Dow Industrials finished the day off 1/2 of 1% fractionally. Meanwhile, the tech heavier NASDAQ composite index was actually up nearly half a percent. And The S&P 500, the broadest measure of the large cap stock market in America was pretty much flat. So there is a sense on Wall Street, Willie, that people are still trying to figure out what's going on. But the general feeling is that we, unless we see real negative impacts flow through to the economy, economy through to the data, the aforementioned data, there is no read to panic just yet. Joe.
- [25:35]
Jon Meacham
Yeah, you know, it is, it is something. We've been talking about it over the past several months. It does appear that at least Wall street has absorbed the impact of these tariffs. You like, as you said, you look at Nasdaq, you look at the big tech stocks, they continue roaring on. The Dow is up around 44,000. So they've absorbed the shock of these, these tariffs. The big question remains for Wall street and the world, what happens with those tariff talks between the United states and China. CNBC's don't you, thank you so much, greatly appreciate it. And I will say, Mika, also on Donald Trump's nominee for the Fed, he actually has sounded off as if he is an inflation hawk. He was critical of Jerome Powell, but he was critical of Jerome Powell for actually cutting rates last year. And his approach was, and his attitude was we can take the economy being down for a quarter or two. What we can't handle is runaway inflation. So if Donald Trump were looking for somebody who would automatically cut rates, at least based on what we've seen over the past year or two, his nominee is not that person.
- [26:55]
Joe Scarborough
All right, let's take a look now at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. The White House is pushing forward on a plan to increase federal law enforcement in the nation's capital. The president has ordered a citywide security initiative in high traffic areas like key tourist destinations. President Trump has criticized the crime rate in Washington, D.C. for days after a prominent Doge worker was attacked in a botched carjacking on Sunday. Earlier this week, the president actually floated a possible federal takeover on the Capitol. Joe, this is what we've been talking about.
- [27:37]
Jon Meacham
Yeah, I mean, we don't want a federal takeover of the Capitol. Certainly, really don't need the National Guard in there, are certainly not Marines. But you look at Washington, D.C. and it's been dangerous for years. There have been, there have been, you know, a year, a couple of years here, a couple of years there where it's been a bit better. But certainly over the past five years, it has just been an absolute mess. Its quality of life has been terrible. We've heard it from people that have gone there to visit it, are horrified that the nation's capital is as dangerous as it is. We've heard it from students. We've heard it from business people. We've heard it from people that work on the hill. I have 25, 30 years of friends asking, really, this is how the nation's capital runs. And so anything that the administration can do to forge a partnership with the city, that I've got to say, its leaders seem unwilling to do what is required to keep city street safe. That's something that's encouraged. Again, they don't have to federalize it, but just help the city help themselves. If city council members continue to do things that undermine the security of the streets and of the communities and the places not only where tourists go, where people have to go to work day in and day out, then, yeah, we need the federal government be far more involved in the nation's capital. This is not Nebraska. This is the nation's capital. It should be safe for Americans and tourists from around the world to visit.
- [29:18]
Joe Scarborough
Another topic we've been following here on MORNING joe. The Federal Aviation Administration is rolling out new steps to address some of the problems plaguing the airline industry, including the nationwide shortage of air traffic controllers. To counter that, the agency plans to hire nearly 9,000 new controllers over the next three years. Still, the hiring push is not expected to solve the growing deficit of qualified staffers, as many face burnout and mandated retirements. And a Florida judge has halted all construction at the controversial immigration detention center known as Alligator Alcatraz. The temporary restraining order follows testimony over a lawsuit that alleges the center's construction did not adhere to environmental laws. The pause will last for two weeks, starting on Thursday, and prohibits everything from new paving to installation of infrastructure. The judge confirmed the order will not have any impact on the facility's immigration enforcement activities. And still ahead on Morning Joe, NBC's Ryan Chandler will join us live from Texas with a look at his interview with Republican Governor Greg Abbott amid the fight to redraw congressional maps there. Plus, we'll bring you the latest on the Justice Department's request to unseal the Jeffrey Epstein files, as some abuse survivors call the Trump administration's approach a quote, cover up. And a reminder, the Morning Joe podcast is available each weekday featuring our full conversations and analysis. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. You're watching MORNING joe. We'll be right back.
- [31:13]
Mika Brzezinski
The bottom line is, even as the Trump administration tries to end abortion access funding and shut down health centers. Planned Parenthood continues its vital work without flinching. The assault on reproductive health is strategic and persistent. And who gets hurt the most? Women? People of color? Rural communities? Folks with low incomes? The people who already face the biggest barriers to care. If you believe everyone deserves to control their own body and future, donate now@plannedparenthood.org defend need to restock inventory, cover seasonal.
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Mika Brzezinski
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- [33:16]
Dom Chu
Beautiful morning as the sun comes up over New York City on this Friday in August, Republican Senator John Cornyn of Texas says the FBI has approved his request for federal law enforcement to help to locate Texas Democratic lawmakers who left the state to block GOP redistricting efforts there. An administration official telling NBC News earlier this week there were no plans to use federal agents to arrest lawmakers who had left Texas. The official saying governor Greg Abbott, quote, can handle his own state well, a Federal law enforcement official familiar with the situation tells NBC News as of yesterday morning, FBI agents had not taken any action to attempt to locate those lawmakers, as Senator Cornyn claimed. Joining us now from Austin, Texas, NBC News correspondent Ryan Chandler. Ryan spoke to Governor Abbott y in an exclusive interview. Ryan, good morning. What did the governor tell you?
- [34:14]
Ryan Chandler
Willie, Good morning. Republicans, like you mentioned there, Senator Cornyn, Governor Abbott, are all trying to make this as painful as possible for Democrats. Now, about five days into this quorum break, work here at the Texas Capitol is stalled as they wait for Democrats to return and give Republicans a quorum. Republicans are pulling out all the stops to try and force them home, including arresting them outside of the states. Up until this point, the narrative was if you're outside of Texas, you're outside the jurisdiction of the Texas state troopers. That could compel you to the Capitol. Now they are trying to get an Illinois court to recognize the arrest warrant that is valid for them in Texas. I spoke with Senator Cornyn yesterday as well. He said that the FBI could investigate possible federal felony bribery charges to escalate this from not just a civil arrest warrant in Texas, but to realize felony charges that could land some of these Democrats in jail. I spoke to the governor yesterday at his residence about how all of this plays into the larger political picture, especially Willie. The urgent need for flood relief in Texas, that is a priority of this special session as well, but up until now has really taken the back seat to the legislative progress on redistricting. Take a listen to some of our interview. When President Trump says, though, that he is entitled to five more Republican seats, that's been the stated goal of all of this, is to create five more red districts.
- [35:46]
Jon Meacham
Right.
- [35:47]
Ryan Chandler
He feels entitled to that. Should that not be a decision for the voters?
- [35:51]
Jon Meacham
Well, my job as governor is to be able to ensure that we have congressional lines that align to ensure that voters are going to be able to vote for their candidate of choice. And the way these lines are drawn ensures that voters who chose President Trump are not going to be trapped in a Democrat district, but instead they're going to be able to vote in a congressional district that aligns with their philosophy.
- [36:19]
Ryan Chandler
I'm sure you expected redistricting would be an intense political fight. Why not do flood relief first and get that urgent need out there and then have this political fight?
- [36:31]
Jon Meacham
Let's be clear about something. When I issued the special session agenda, which lasts only 30 days, the first items that I put on there were relief for all the victims of the deadly floods that we've had in the state of Texas, there's only one thing that's denying our ability to get legislation passed as these Democrats who have fled the state turned their backs on their fellow constituents.
- [36:58]
Ryan Chandler
We appreciate the governor's time there, Willie. I also asked him if he thinks it's appropriate for the FBI to get involved in this state political standoff. He said he's not going to get into the specifics of who may or may not be involved in this from the federal level. But he said that they are using every tool that they can to, quote, hold these Democrats accountable. The Texas House convenes again today and all eyes are on the House to see if there will be a quorum. But Democrats are showing no signs of letting up. They continue to be defiant. Today. Some of them are heading to California to stand with Governor Newsom and former Speaker Pelosi as they continue this standoff.
- [37:38]
Dom Chu
Willie, it is a standoff. NBC's Ryan Chandler live in Austin, Texas, this morning. Ryan, thanks so much. Florida is now the latest state to consider redistricting efforts. The state House speaker said yesterday he's creating a select committee to look into redrawing congressional districts. Republicans in Missouri, Indiana, Ohio also talking about ways to create new ahead of next year's midterm elections, all following Texas lead. As for Democrats, Gov. Gavin Newsom of California has said he will push for new maps if redistricting passes in Texas. And New York Governor Kathy Hochul promising to explore every option to redraw the maps in her state.
- [38:20]
Joe Scarborough
If we don't fight for our democracy, we're doomed to lose it. That's how high the stakes are right now. And New York state, our normal redistricting, the next election would be occur in 2032. I'm going to do whatever I can to literally change the constitution of New York state to allow us to have an election with the lines that we draw. This is how they're going to play the game. We're going to fight fire with fire. I didn't want to take on this fight. I've always followed the rules. Democrats always follow the rules. But when they're willing to do this to subvert our democracy, shame on us if we don't stand up.
- [38:56]
Dom Chu
Governor Kathy Hochul of New York there. Let's bring in former Republican Congressman Carlos Curbelo of Florida. He is an MSNBC analyst. Carlos, good morning. Obviously you served in the House of Representatives. You know how this all works. What do you make of this? First of all, the move in Texas that appears now it's going to Florida Ohio, some other states may follow suit. But also this Democratic response to it in New York, in California, saying, effectively, look, if you guys are going to play dirty, we're going to have to play dirty, too.
- [39:25]
Jonathan Lemire
Yeah, that's right, Willie. It's a race to the bottom. I think in Florida, it would be tough to redraw the map in any significant way. Maybe they can get one more district, but there's a risk of diluting other districts and making other Republicans vulnerable. So I don't think Florida is going to make major news here. But at the end of the day, this is bad for everyone. I mean, Joe knows this. Having served in the House House, it's so important for states to have members of both parties representing them. I mean, we saw what that meant for the state of New York where this whole SALT issue, state and local tax deductibility was not a major priority for House Republicans when the OBBB was being done, the reconciliation bill. However, because the state of New York had small group of Republican lawmakers, they were able to get relief for their state. So this, this is important. I mean, we've seen states like California, blue state, but with some members of the House from the state being Republicans, that's helpful to the state. And of course, when Democrats are in charge, the opposite is true for red states that happen to have Democratic representatives. The House is already dysfunctional. If we continue down this path, it's going to get even worse. And at the end of the day, Willie, more and more Americans are going to feel underrepresented or not represented in this system. They're going to turn away from politics. So this is just a very dangerous game that's being played here. And at the end of the day.
- [40:52]
Jon Meacham
Everyone will lose one congressman. You're so right. I mean, what people don't understand is when we have a crisis, when we had a crisis in Florida, whether it's when you were there or whether it's when I was there, if there was a Democratic president of the White House, I'd immediately go to my Democratic friends on Democratic side of the House. We'd get together, we'd figure out out how to make it work. If there was a Republican in the White House, they would come talk to us and we would get together and say, okay, here's our game plan. We'll go present it to the president. It'll help everybody in the state of Florida. And one of one of my favorite stories about this, and I guess Americans, enough Americans don't understand this is how it works. You want Republicans and Democrats getting along. You want them to be able to help Americans on issues side issues that may not be the red hot issues that are or on the front pages of the Wall Street Journal or New York Times or websites. But Ted Kennedy always told Mike Barnacle that he was close friends with Orrin Hatch. If Orrin Hatch needed something, he'd go to Ted Kennedy and tell him what he needed. And Kennedy would say, well, Orrin, obviously I can't help you. I can't get out in front of this bill, but come on, let's go over to my friend's office. He would be able to carry that in the state and he'll be able to get out front on that and help you more. And it worked the other way, too. When Ted Kennedy needed something, he'd go to Orrin Hatch. If Orrin couldn't do it publicly, he would find the Senate members on the Republican side who could. And what were they doing? They were fighting to help their constituents, to make the country stronger, to make it better. That's what we lose with this stupid partisan gamesmanship.
- [42:45]
Jonathan Lemire
That's right, Joe. And look, that whole process that you described at the end of the day makes everyone in the country feel like, well, even if my party lost, this government can work for me. Even if my party lost, if there's a big problem in my state, someone's going to look out for me. They're threatening to destroy that. And I really think it's dangerous. And in the long term term, it's probably going to end up hurting the people who are leading the effort. Look, if there's a blue wave next fall, some of these redistricting efforts only promise to accelerate that blue wave because it's going to make other Republican districts weaker. That's why you have a lot of Republicans in the House, Joe. They're not speaking up because, of course, this is a big presidential priority now. But they're worried about this. They think at the end of the day, this could come back to bite them.
- [43:32]
Joe Scarborough
Yeah.
- [43:33]
Carlos Curbelo
And Congressman, I mean, if this goes much further and we see it in state after state, it's sort of the.
- [43:37]
Raf Sanchez
Whole faith of the system will be.
- [43:39]
Carlos Curbelo
Undermined, I think, in a really devastating way. Let's turn, though, briefly, I know you've been following there in Florida, the Jeffrey Epstein matter. This is, as we were discussing earlier, a rare moment that President Trump simply can't turn the page. He can't shake a storyline, and it's coming from some of his biggest supporters. And I know there have been Mike Johnson sent the House home early. That this story would dissipate during longest recess doesn't seem to be the case.
- [44:06]
Jonathan Lemire
That's right, Jonathan. And it's because this issue is so fundamental to the president's base. You look at the House of Representatives, typically it's the swing district members who feel the pressure, right, who are exposed. In this case, it's the hardcore conservatives, the MAGA base, the president's strongest supporters in the House who are demanding this information that the president has asked the them to stop doing so. It's a very complex situation. It's not going to go away until Republicans address it in a meaningful way. Unless they get Pam Bondi out there under oath answering questions, unless they're able to release some information, this drumbeat is going to continue. And if they don't, then this really does threaten their chances in the 2026 election. President Trump's a guy who has been everything on his base. If his base isn't enthusiastic, if they're not motivated, that spells big trouble for House Republicans. In particular.
- [45:04]
Joe Scarborough
MSNBC analyst and former Congressman Carlos Curbello. Thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. And coming up on Morning Joe, MSNBC justice and intelligence correspondent Ken Delaney joins us with insight on the firing of the former acting FDA FBI director who was involved in January 6th investigations. We're back in 90 seconds.
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Jon Meacham
Possibility means you have a chance.
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Dom Chu
Passion opens the door to all possibilities.
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Mika Brzezinski
When I feel like anything's possible, I feel kind of giddy.
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Joe Scarborough
I want to be an astronaut, an.
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Mika Brzezinski
Artist, an actress, to be another country.
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Jonathan Lemire
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Raf Sanchez
A pair of shoes and I'll find a way I'm able to do anything.
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Jon Meacham
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Raf Sanchez
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Jon Meacham
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Joe Scarborough
Welcome back to Morning Joe on this Friday morning, a live look at Capitol Hill at 47 past the hour. A senior FBI official who briefly served as acting director at the start of President Trump's current term has been fired with no explanation. That's according to two federal law enforcement sources. That official, Brian Driscoll, made headlines when he resisted a Justice Department directive to turn over a list of agents who had worked on January 6 cases. Let's bring in MSNBC justice and intelligence correspondent Ken Delaney. Ken, what more do we know about this dismissal?
- [48:17]
Ken Delaney
Good morning, Mika. This dismissal was actually part of a wave of firings of senior officials, including Steve Jensen, the head of the Washington field office, who was heavily involved in investigating the January 6 cases, and a man named Walter Giardino, who was involved in the investigation of Peter Navarro, that Trump adviser who went to prison for defying Congress. Giardina had just lost his wife to cancer a couple of weeks ago, and he was summarily fired. And this is part of an ongoing purge that the Trump administration is conducting of FBI leadership. I posted a story earlier this week that noted that a large chunk of the special agents in charge across the country at field offices have been forced out of their jobs and that those firings were disproportionately affecting, impacting women, minorities in those jobs. In this case, it's some senior white guys, but some pretty famous folks inside the Bureau. Brian Driscoll became something of a folk hero, as you mentioned, when he was named the acting director accidentally, by the way, his name was put in the wrong place in a chart. And then he stood up to a plan by the Trump administration that seemed like it was poised to fire hundreds, if not thousands of FBI agents who had worked on those January 6th cases. He resisted that, and yet he retained his job. And his continued employment in the bureau, as well as Jensen and some of these other people, provided a little bit of hope that it was possible to dissent from some aspect of Trump administration policy, or at least to push back and keep your job. Well, that day is over. The message has been sent very clearly, and morale inside the FBI guys is about as low as I have ever heard it described as I talk to people now.
- [50:00]
Joe Scarborough
Let's move over to the Justice Department, Ken, which has hired a January 6 rioter who was captured on video calling law enforcement Nazis and yelling, quote, kill them during the 2021 Capitol insurrection. And NPR just uncovered that video. Take a look.
- [50:22]
Jon Meacham
You guys are disgusting. I'm former law enforcement. You're disgusting. You are the Nazi. You are the Gestapo. You can't see it, cuz you're chasing your pension, right? Your pension, your retirement, right? That's what ruins your life, your retirement.
- [50:35]
Dom Chu
The sad thing is they're not even.
- [50:36]
Ryan Chandler
Going to get their pension because it's.
- [50:38]
Jon Meacham
Going to be your.
- [50:50]
Joe Scarborough
All right. That is former January 6th defendant Jared Wise. He was not convicted of any crimes related to January 6th following President Trump's order to end all Capitol riot prosecutions. NPR reports that Wise is now working as a senior advisor for the doj, though his exact role at the department remains unclear. A DOJ spokesperson released this statement to npr, quote, jared Wise is a valued member of the Justice Department, and we appreciate his contributions to our team. Wise had previously served at the FBI from 2004 to 2017, where he worked on international counterterrorism and eventually became a supervisory special agent. Joe, where do we begin here?
- [51:45]
Jon Meacham
Well, I mean, you know, according to the NPR report and the video, you now now have somebody that's inside the most important law enforcement agency in America talking about, if I do, I have it right, Ken? Kill. Kill cops. Is that. Is that the language? Kill them. Kill them. I mean, saying that, calling police officers, that we're trying to protect people's safety, safety and government buildings, calling them Nazis and the Gestapo. This is very bizarre coming from a political party holding up such a person that is calling for the killing of cops. Very bizarre that he's working in the preeminent law enforcement agency in America for a president and a party who claim to be supporting law enforcement officers and claiming it's the liberals that don't support law enforcement officers. What can you tell us about this? This, this person who at really the most heated time on January 6 was calling for the killing of law enforcement officers?
- [53:19]
Ken Delaney
Yes, it's mind boggling, Joe. I will say that Mr. Wise did express contrition for those comments during his trial, which was cut short when Donald Trump ended all the prosecutions of January 6th defendants and pardoned them all. But I think what we're seeing here is the consequences of an administration that has rewritten history. It's rewritten the history of January 6th, 6th, and as I said, Donald Trump pardoned all the defendants, including those who assaulted police officers, and is now going about firing FBI agents who worked on those cases and FBI supervisors and then hiring people who were part of the riot. And you know, to your point, Joe, I suspect if you polled most Americans, even most Republicans, they're not necessarily on board with this. This is a small fraction of the MAGA movement that is under these incredible delusions about the fact that there was no violence or that somehow the January 6th riot was justified. But Donald Trump doesn't care. Those are the people that are empowered in his administration, the people that believe that way, the people that believe that the FBI was part of a corrupt deep state. In fact, the men leading the FBI have expressed those beliefs for years. So regardless of what percentage of the population or even the Republican Party actually believes this or cares about it, these are the animating features of the Trump administration. They have rewritten history and they have co opted the Justice Department and the FBI as tools of their political ends. And they're going about purging people who have beliefs that they don't like, and they're hiring people that you would not expect. And this is a great example of.
- [54:56]
Dom Chu
That, Ken, as you say, the early second term here, move by President Trump to empty the prisons of January 6, convicts, people who attacked police, attacked the Capitol building, was an early indicator of how this second term was gonna go for President Trump. You talked a little bit about morale inside the FBI. And we talk about somebody like Brian Driscoll, almost a 20 year veteran, a respected guy within the FBI, had held some major posts, hostage rescue, things like that. For him to be dismissed effectively because he wouldn't turn over a list of agents who worked on these cases around January 6th with, as you say, anyone who's honest with him or herself or has a pair of eyes, knows was a terrible day where criminal acts were performed. What is it like to be A career FBI agent, A career FBI official right now, or in the Justice Department for that matter.
- [55:50]
Ken Delaney
There is a climate of fear, Willie. I'll say that Driscoll actually survived resisting turning over the list. He was fired because he refused to fire one of his subordinates, an FBI agent who is a pilot who was flying Cash Patel around in the FBI jet, but had previously worked on the Mar A Lago investigation. Investigation. And Driscoll stood up to the idea that that man should be fired. Now Driscoll's been fired and that agent was also fired, according to our reporting. But to your larger point, morale is in the toilet and there is a climate of fear where, for example, one of my sources is a special agent out in a field office somewhere and mentioned that a new special agent in charge came to talk to employees. And this agent had a good reputation as a long time career FBI official. But this new supervisor, every other word out of his mouth, every other sentence was effusive and obsequious praise for Cash Patel and Dan Bongino. And my source said he was just so disgusted and it felt to him like in North Korea. He just thought that this man was debasing himself. And this is what it had come to inside the FBI, that you have to do those kinds of things to preserve your viability. So not only are people being fired, people who have the ability to retire are retiring, people are leaving for other jobs. And so decades of counterterrorism, counterintelligence, white collar fraud experience is walking out of that building. And that will take a generation to rebuild, guys.
- [57:20]
Joe Scarborough
MSNBC justice and Intelligence correspondent Ken Delaneyn, thank you very much.
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