Morning Joe — September 25, 2025

Episode Theme:

“Jimmy Kimmel’s Triumph, Political Retribution, and America’s Eroding Institutional Norms”

Morning Joe, hosted by Joe Scarborough, Mika Brzezinski, and Willie Geist, delivers sharp analysis and informed debate on the day’s political landscape. In this episode, the team explores Jimmy Kimmel’s triumphant return to late night television—drawing record ratings amid controversy—as well as the weaponization of political power, the rise of political violence, unprecedented government actions, and the existential threats facing American democracy. Discussion is enriched with expert guests including Steve Rattner, Jonathan Martin, George Packer, and Former Congressman Carlos Curbelo.

Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Jimmy Kimmel’s Record-Breaking Comeback

[02:58 – 07:26]

• Kimmel’s Suspension Fallout: Joe and Mike read real texts from Kimmel’s staff, showcasing the anxiety and confusion during his off-air period, mirroring media job insecurity.
• Huge Ratings: Kimmel’s post-suspension episode hit over 6 million viewers—a decade-high—even with 20% of US households unable to tune in due to ABC affiliate preemptions.
• Massive Online Reach: His monologue drew 26 million views on social media in 24 hours, highlighting the power of digital platforms.

“Those numbers are just staggering. Especially considering that some right-wing places wouldn’t play it... trying to gain favor with Donald Trump.”
—Joe Scarborough [03:45]

• Paradox of Retribution: Joe argues that attempts by political figures, especially President Trump, to “cancel” or attack comedians and media critics only elevate their status.

“All you do is help Jimmy Kimmel. All you do is help these people. You turn them into a martyr.”
—Joe Scarborough [04:11]

2. Political Violence & the Dallas ICE Facility Shooting

[07:26 – 17:26]

• Attack Details:
  • Gunman Joshua John attacked a Dallas ICE facility, killing one detainee and injuring two; he died by suicide.
  • Despite “anti-ICE” written on bullets and immediate political accusations, the shooter had little political interest, according to his brother and public records.
• Political Finger-Pointing:
  • Republican officials, including President Trump and VP J.D. Vance, blamed Democratic “rhetoric” despite lack of evidence.
• Joe Scarborough Rebuts:
  • Joe fiercely challenges the narrative, citing data from the Cato Institute and CSIS showing most recent political violence comes from the right.
  • He calls out hypocrisy for selective outrage and immediate exploitation of tragedy for political gain.

“What is wrong with these people that they go out and immediately start pointing at Democrats, saying, oh, this is where all the violence is coming from, when they know it’s not true?”
—Joe Scarborough [11:39]

• Systemic Trends and Failures:
  • Guests and hosts discuss America’s growing desensitization to politicized violence and the reluctance of leaders and media to confront uncomfortable realities.

3. Trump, Retribution, and the Weaponization of Government

[21:01 – 32:21]

• Justice Department and James Comey:
  • DOJ considers charges against ex-FBI chief Comey for alleged lying to Congress, following Trump’s personal orders and the unusual firing/replacement of the US Attorney.
  • Charges hinge on ambiguous testimony and appear politically motivated.
• Legal Insight:
  • Barbara McQuaid (ex-US Attorney) calls this classic “selective prosecution” and a “motion for dismissal” in the making.
• Dangerous Precedent:
  • The pattern: legal mechanisms deployed for political retribution, with Trump loyalists filling critical roles.

“When you have the President of the United States ordering a legal attack on his political enemies, where does that usually end up?”
—Joe Scarborough [27:14]

“There is no Watergate. There is... just Truth Social. We’re going to attack our political enemies. It’s all right here.”
—Joe Scarborough [29:35]

4. Erosion of Institutional Norms and American "Zombie Democracy"

[32:21 – 42:00]

• George Packer’s "Zombie Democracy":
  • Drawing comparisons not to Nazi Germany, but to modern Hungary, Venezuela, Turkey, and India, Packer and the panel describe a slow but relentless erosion of checks and balances:
    • Bureaucracy purged and replaced by loyalists.
    • Congress as a "rubber stamp."
    • Chilling effect on press and civil society.
  • The Supreme Court seen as increasingly aligned with executive power; lower courts and public resistance remain as last lines of defense.

“Democracy has this blood in its system, and if you cut off the blood flow, it starts to die.”
—George Packer [36:31]

• Republican Compliance & Fear:
  • Carlos Curbelo describes GOP in thrall to Trump, cowed by fear of primary challenges and public shaming.
  • Hosts lament the collapse of independent legislative oversight.

5. Health Care, Budget Fights, and Looming Government Shutdown

[49:09 – 66:12]

• Budget Crisis:
  • Lawmakers face an imminent shutdown; key sticking issue is health care funding.
  • “Big Beautiful Bill” disparaged by hosts for delivering tax cuts to wealthy donors and corporations at the expense of working- and middle-class Americans.
• Steve Rattner’s Health Care Analysis:
  • The Republican agenda seeks to dismantle the ACA piecemeal:
    • 70% of the 20 million Americans who gained coverage under Obamacare risk losing health insurance due to legislative changes and expiring subsidies.
    • Expiration of enhanced tax credits will force families to pay tens of thousands more, threatening rural hospitals and care for the vulnerable.

“You haven’t heard Republicans say lately, ‘let’s repeal Obamacare,’ have you? …They are dismantling Obamacare and that is what the Democrats are fighting for in this go round.”
—Steve Rattner [57:50]

“I said, listen, if you’re going to make the argument that we have deficits because the poor people are getting away with too much, like you live in another country than I do.”
—Joe Scarborough [63:29]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Media & Political Backlash:

  “You try to hammer Jimmy Kimmel down, he comes back bigger than ever. This is a big, rowdy, ornery country that doesn’t like to have its mouth shut. And when you say shut your mouth, that is pretty much the most dangerous thing you can do in politics.”
  —Joe Scarborough [42:45]

• On Political Violence:

  “This shouldn’t be about keeping score. This should be about condemning political violence in all its forms and not just picking the ones that affect your side.”
  —Joe Scarborough [16:38]

• On Eroding Institutions:

  “Democracy doesn’t collapse overnight, it erodes… and if you cut off the blood flow, it starts to die.”
  —George Packer [36:31]

• On Congressional Fear:

  “Fear of primary challenges has become the biggest motivating factor in Congress… That’s the big problem.”
  —Carlos Curbelo [46:54]

• On Health Care and Political Courage:

  “Do you really fear Donald Trump so much that you’re going to vote against the interests of farmers and small business owners in your own district? In this case, they did.”
  —Joe Scarborough [65:14]

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Jimmy Kimmel Returns & Media Fallout: [02:58 – 07:26]
• Dallas ICE Facility Shooting & Political Violence Debate: [07:26 – 17:26]
• Comey Investigation & DOJ Weaponization: [21:01 – 32:21]
• Authoritarianism & Eroding Institutions Panel (Packer, Curbelo, Martin): [32:21 – 42:00]
• Government Shutdown, Health Care, and Steve Rattner’s Charts: [49:09 – 66:12]

Episode Takeaways

• Attacks on media voices like Jimmy Kimmel—often from the highest level—tend to backfire, paradoxically strengthening their platforms.
• The pattern of politicizing violence, with immediate and misleading blame, reveals a deep partisan rift and a troubling normalization of using tragedy as a political instrument.
• The Trump administration’s overt moves to use legal means to target opponents represent a dangerous escalation and warning sign for the future of American democracy.
• As institutional guardrails falter or disappear, only public engagement and resistance keep true democratic norms alive.
• Legislative maneuvering puts millions of Americans’ health coverage at risk, and fear-driven politics continues to dominate Congress.

The tone throughout is forthright, passionate, occasionally sardonic, and unflinchingly critical of the state of American political discourse and institutional health. The panel urges vigilance and engagement as democracy faces sustained internal pressures.