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Key questions remain about suspect's motive in fatal shooting of Charlie Kirk
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Key questions remain about suspect's motive in fatal shooting of Charlie Kirk
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- [00:00]
Joe Scarborough
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- [00:37]
Jonathan Lemire
Ugh.
- [00:37]
Mika Brzezinski
After eight hours of this, I have earned my wine. You know what I'm saying?
- [00:41]
David Ignatius
My family is a lot. It takes me four beers just to hang out with them.
- [00:46]
Joe Scarborough
Binge drinking isn't all college kids doing keg stands.
- [00:50]
Katty Kay
Oregonians in their 30s and 40s binge drink at close to the same rates.
- [00:54]
Joe Scarborough
As younger people, raising our risk for.
- [00:56]
Katty Kay
Long term health problems. More@rethinkthedrink.com an OHA initiative.
- [01:02]
Jonathan Lemire
We have additional evidence, forensic evidence, that has been processed. We'll be sharing that when, when charges are filed on Tuesday. So everything that we know confirms that, that this is the person, the why behind this. Again, we're all drawing lots of conclusions and how someone like this could be radicalized. And I think that those are, those are important questions for us to ask and important questions for us to answer.
- [01:30]
Mika Brzezinski
That is the governor of Utah saying the public will learn a lot more tomorrow when formal criminal charges are filed against the man accused of murdering conservative activist Charlie Kirk. We'll be bringing you the latest on the investigation this morning. We're also paying close attention to Washington, D.C. where President Trump's 30 day takeover of the District's police force has come to an end but may not be over. We'll explain that. Also a big development in the New York City mayor's race with the state's governor throwing her support behind Zoran Mamdani. We'll tell you why Kathy Hochul decided to give him her endorsement. And we'll recap which shows got the most recognition at last night's Emmy Awards. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Monday, September 15th. And with us we have the co host of our fourth hour, staff writer at the Atlantic, Jonathan lemere, US Special correspondent for BBC News and the host of the Rest Is Politics podcast, Katty Kay, columnist and associate editor for the Washington Post, David Ignatius and senior writer for the Dispatch and a columnist for Bloomberg Opinion. David Drucker joins us this morning. A lot to get to this morning. We'll start with what we're learning about the alleged assassin in last week's murder of conservative political activist Charlie Kirk. 22 year old Tyler Robin, who was taken into custody on Friday following a 33 hour manhunt, is being held without bail at Utah County Jail. He was booked on suspicion of aggravated murder, felony discharge of a firearm and obstruction of justice. Utah prosecutors say they will file formal charges tomorrow when the alleged shooter is set to have his first appearance in court. At this hour, key questions remain about the suspect's motive for the fatal shooting. Investigators are sorting through all the evidence, including the bullet casings engraved with messages about fascism, video games and Internet memes. Utah Governor Spencer Cox told NBC News yesterday the suspect is not cooperating with authorities, but his roommate, who Cox said was shocked by the shooting, has been helping investigators. The governor added that the suspect was in a romantic relationship with his roommate, who is transgender. A A federal official tells NBC News there is not a solid understanding of whether there is any connection between that relationship and the shooting. The governor went on to say the suspect had a leftist ideology, although he was not registered to any political party. Cox also described him as a once very normal, very smart young man who appeared to have been radicalized in recent years.
- [04:32]
Jonathan Lemire
Friends that have confirmed that there was kind of that deep, dark Internet, the Reddit culture and these, these other dark places of the Internet where, where, where this person was, was going deep. I believe that social media has played a direct role in every single assassination and assassination attempt that we have seen over the last five, six years. There is no question in my mind that cancer probably isn't a strong enough word.
- [05:01]
Katty Kay
What?
- [05:02]
Jonathan Lemire
Especially to our kids. It took us a decade to realize how evil these algorithms are.
- [05:11]
Mika Brzezinski
So President Trump announced that he will travel to Arizona in the coming days to attend a memorial service for Kirk. That comes as the president says he hopes the nation will heal following the fatal shooting. But he also blamed what he called a radical left group of lunatics for standing in the way. In an interview with NBC News, the president added, this group, quote, doesn't play fair and they never did. He also singled out Democratic mega donor George Soros, saying he, quote, should be put in jail. Trump has suggested the donor may have violated RICO laws, but Soros team says the accusations are false and outrageous. Conservative columnist David French has a new piece for the New York Times entitled there are monsters in your midst too. And David writes in part, quote, if we're convinced that political violence comes from only one side of the divide, then the temptation toward punitive authoritarianism is overwhelming. They are Evil and violent, and they must be crushed. If, however, we accurately understand that America has an immense problem with violent extremism on both sides of the ideological aisle, even if at any given moment one side is worse than the other, then the answer lies in reconciliation, not domination. In fact, it's the will to dominate that magnifies the crisis and radicalizes our opponents. Violent acts aren't uniting our nation in introspection, grief and grace. They're separating us into warring factions. To get past this dreadful moment, more and more Americans are going to have to face the a painful fact. Evil isn't confined to one side of the American divide. There are monsters in your midst, too.
- [07:12]
Joe Scarborough
And David Ignatius. This has been the case for some time. We have had a swing back and forth, and we're going to be going through the history of political violence from the 60s forward. But obviously, we all saw during the 2024 campaign the assassination attempts at President Trump. We all saw in horror the assassination of Charlie Kirk. We all saw in horror the assassination in her home, along with her husband, the Democratic leader of the Minnesota House of Representatives. We also saw, during that, that killing spree, the attempted assassination of a Democratic Senate majority leader while sleeping in his home along with his wife. We also certainly saw the attempt to burn down Josh Shapiro's home in Pennsylvania and later admitting the man, admitting that he wanted to take a hammer to his head, just like Paul Pelosi had a hammer taken to his head. In the case of the Minnesota Slaughter, you had a man arrested that had a hit list of 42 Democrats, a kill list. And we can go back and forth. And we can go back and forth. I don't think it's particularly helpful, though, when you have one side pointing at the other side and saying, oh, this shows just how extreme one side is, when many of these same people completely ignore Democratic leaders who were assassinated in their bed and actually mock and ridicule Paul Pelosi for being brutalized, too. I think most normal people that I talk to, they're deeply discouraged that this is happening on either side and nobody's trying to gain points. As David French said, there are monsters on both sides. And I really don't, must say, I actually am so shocked at the killing, but so disappointed by some of the reactions I've seen from the killing on both sides.
- [09:34]
David Ignatius
So, Joe, it's a terrible long list that you just cited of all of the acts of violence against people on both sides. It's just, it's too long. And it's a reminder that as Our colleague David French wrote so powerfully, there is evil among us. We know that from our Bible teachings, and we see it today, every day on the TV screen. We've had two powerful responses for the nation since the killing of Charlie Kirk. One is that of the governor of Utah, Spencer Cox, who has emerged. I didn't know much about Spencer Cox, but I sure do now, and his ability to say to people, you know, we have to find an exit ramp, to use this phrase, we're on a death trip. I think he was profoundly right when he said almost every one of these mass killings has some connection with social media, something that infected the killer from the right or the left, whatever it was, and calling in a powerful way for unity and understanding. And then we did have from the president, you know, specific attack on the radical left, lunatics who were horrible and horrendous. And, you know, that's the source of this problem. Peter Baker, New York Times, brilliant New York Times reporter, wrote last night that President Trump is trying to be the president of Red state America only. We need a unifier who will speak to the whole country, whatever you feel, in the way that Governor Spencer Cox did. So, as you know, as your list, Joe tells us we're in a dark place, and there's an exit ramp that Governor Cox tried to describe for us, and we all need to look for it. We find it, head for it, you know, with all the power and passion that we can.
- [11:40]
David Drucker
Yeah. And it's interesting, David, to see the Wall street editorial board this morning praising David Spencer Cox, the governor of Utah. I think a lot of people have been. But, David, in a sense, the question must be is why is Spencer Cox's voice so unique? Here we are in this moment in the country when we have become so used to so much division that we almost expect more of that division from our political leaders on either side. And so to have listening to Spencer Cox yesterday on the Sunday shows, what struck me is how he was prepared to be bold. He didn't mince his words when it came to social media, describing it as a cancer, describing the algorithms that drive U.S. division as evil. He was dealing in a world of facts and evidence rather than in a world where he was trying to take an event and use it for political gain. And it is. The sad thing is that his voice is so surprising to us in this moment. Do you see anyone else in that realm?
- [12:38]
Pablo Torre
Well, I'm sure there is. I think, you know, the issue is the incentive structure. Utah has a different sort of incentive structure. Politically, it rewards this sort of political behavior. But as we've seen over the past decade in particular, politicians are often very wary of their own base. And then the incentive structures to raise money and to become popular and well known within your party does not acting the way Spencer Cox has been acting, being conciliatory, trying to be understanding, trying to point out the flaws on your side as well as the other side, it just doesn't play well. You know, this had the roots of this really go back. One of the things I always found very interesting back in the pre Trump era, even in the Reagan era when we thought politics was normal, was that there was one thing the parties always agreed on. When I would interview political operatives, campaign operatives, even activists, here's what they agreed on the other side plays dirty. I wish we did too. I wish we played as dirty as them because then we would win more often. And then what we found, and it's so ironic because this century we've seen power in Washington swing back and forth, back and forth between Democrats and Republicans in the House, in the Senate, is that one of the parties wins an election and they immediately declare this may be the last election we ever win. Everything is stacked against us, the system is rigged against us. We have to do everything we absolutely can now because we're never going to have power again. And of course the public then says you went too far. They give power to the other party and they repeat the cycle. And my point is here is I don't know how we get back to a place where both parties are willing to self police and self examine and just for the sake of trying to lower the temperature like we do in our own personal relationships when we're not quite sure that, well, I don't know, I think maybe my wife's at fault. But I'm just going to say it was my fault because I love her and I don't want to fight anymore. We need more of that in politics, given where we are after last week. And there just aren't a lot of voices that find it advantageous to do that.
- [15:03]
Joe Scarborough
Well, and a big part of the problem there and Jonathan, we've seen it, we've seen it since the tragedy of Charlie Kirk. A lot of it is that there are people on cable news networks, there are people running podcasts that are talking about civil war. Of course they talked about civil war before, but they're talking about civil war and needing to go after the left and, and they're coming after us. We need to now. Elon Musk Retweeting tweets in the hours after the tragic, tragic death of Charlie Kirk. But again, some of the same people that barely said a word certainly didn't talk at call for civil war after a Democratic legislator this past summer, the leader of the Democrats, got slaughtered in her home along with her husband by a man with a Democratic hit list of 42 Democrats. A kill list. We heard nothing about that. We heard nothing from these people who are now talking about the need for civil war and to go after the left, the wackos on the far left. We heard nothing about that after Josh Shapiro and his family were sleeping inside their home when somebody tried to burn it down and said they wanted to take a hammer to Governor Shapiro's head. We heard nothing about a civil war then. We, we certainly didn't after Paul Pelosi. In fact, you will remember, as I remember very well, not only were they not talking about civil war, there were actually some people mocking and ridiculing Paul Pelosi, some prominent conspiracy theorists, prominent Republican figures mocking and ridiculing Paul Pelosi and Nancy Pelosi and even suggesting that the man who attacked him was in a gay relationship with him for years. So there are these people talking about civil war now just again, is, is baffling when they seem so disinterested, when the, the killings, when the attempted killings, when the assaults were on the other side. I think, I think again, every sane American, every American I've actually spoken to in person since the terrible, terrible tragedy, the assassination of Charlie Kirk, have been horrified and asked the same question. When is this going to end? How can we come together? How had had one law enforcement officer say, how do we keep social media away from our children? How much longer does this continue? But we're just not hearing it from people that are trying to fan the flames and talking about civil war. I wish we could come together as Americans after a tragedy. After this summer, Democrats are slaughtered while sleeping in their, their bedrooms. And when Republicans are assassinated going out talking to college students, for God's sake.
- [18:28]
Katty Kay
Yeah. The prospect of an actual civil war is too horrifying to comprehend. And people, that rhetoric needs to go away. But that's not what's happening here. We are seeing figures on the right, you know, within moments of Carli Kirk's terrible death, rushing to blame left wing activists for it without any evidence, without even at that moment knowing who the suspect was. You are so right to point to the double standard here. Some of the loudest voices of the Republican Party, including the current president of the United States turn the attack on Paul Pelosi into a running gag. Trump will use it as a running punchline at his. At his rallies, Paul Pelosi nearly died. The White House did not send a delegation to Minnesota this summer when that state lawmaker was killed. That didn't happen. And there's been an effort here to sort of cast about from the right, sort of pointing fingers at the left. It sort of claim that Democratic politicians are reveling in Charlie Kirk's death. That's simply not been the case. People have been responsible, they've been mournful. This is an American tragedy. It's not just a Republican tragedy, it's not a Democratic tragedy. It's an American tragedy. But there is this sort of sense of this could be a pretense for some sort of crackdown, and that would be just make things worse. It would fan the flames. There's so little we know yet about this shooter and his motives. And again, they almost shouldn't matter because what happened here, it's a culture, a society where we've had this rise in political violence. We are awash in guns. It's clear one thing we do know about this individual, a lot of time online, that the worries of the dangers of social media become more and more clear each and every day. That's what we should be focusing on. And I'll just note the governor there from Utah said again, he said a few different times in the last couple of days, I think this is important. He made it clear this. The killing of Charlie Kirk was the acts of one individual. It wasn't a conspiracy, it wasn't a movement, it wasn't about a political party. It was about one individual. And he seemed to be aiming that message straight at the Oval Office, trying to say, look, when's the time for trying to bring a nation together? This nation is wounded, Joe Mika. It is grieving. It is scared. It's time for healing. It's time finally for a message of unity, not division.
- [20:35]
Joe Scarborough
The nation does need to come together and we need to stop and we need to think. What kind of nation have we become when you can't have a political figure, a podcast, or going on a college campus to debate politics too aggressively? Debate politics. What, what kind of nation have we become when a president can't campaign without having two assassination attempts on him? What kind of nation have we become when a Democratic leader can't go to bed with her husband at night without fears of being killed in their home? Or a state senator in that same state can't go to sleep with his wife without fears of being gunned down and killed. And this goes back. I mean, we could talk about all the anti Semitic attacks, anti Semitic attack at the Israeli embassy earlier this year, the firebombing out in Colorado. We could talk about the tree of life. We go all the way back to 2017 and the congressional softball game, the practice there, and the scars that Steve Scalise still carry with him every day. We've got to do better. Our leaders have to do better. People on media have to do better. People with podcasts have to do better. Everybody has to do better. Debate and debate aggressively, but never let it turn. Never, never let it cross a line into violence. And when it does, we have to stand shoulder to shoulder as a nation and condemn it in its strongest terms. Whether it happens in Utah, whether it happens in Minnesota, or whether it happens in, in Butler, Pennsylvania, we have to do it or this nation will continue to get worse. And those calling for civil war, well, they may just get their wish years down the road. It'll take a while. But if that's what they keep preaching and that's what they keep practicing, God help us all.
- [23:16]
Mika Brzezinski
Still ahead on Morning Joe, President Trump is now looking to crack down on a crime in a Republican led will tell you which city he wants to send the National Guard to and what those leaders are saying about it. Plus, we'll delve into Governor Kathy Hochul's endorsement of Zoran Mamdani for New York City mayor and what this means for the race. And a reminder that the Morning Joe podcast is available each weekday. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. You're watching Morning joe. We'll be right back.
- [23:58]
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- [25:33]
Mika Brzezinski
Time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. Longtime Republican Congressman Michael McCaul of Texas announced he will not seek reelection next year after serving two decades in office. McCall made the announcement yesterday on ABC's this Week and said he plans to finish his term but will be looking for a new challenge within the national security and foreign policy space. McCall, whose district include parts of Austin and Houston, was first elected to Congress in 2004 and previously chaired both the Foreign affairs and Homeland Security committees. The congressman joins a record number of lawmakers who've been eyeing exits since Donald Trump returned to the White House. Ten senators and 25 House members have already announced plans not to seek reelection. Democratic Gov. Kathy Hochul of New York is endorsing Zoran Mamdani for mayor of New York City. Hochul revealed her endorsement in a New York Times opinion piece published last night, marking a major shift in the Democratic establishment's stance. The governor wrote in part, quote, I didn't leave my conversations with Mr. Mamdani aligned with him on every issue, but I'm confident he has the courage, urgency and optimism New York City needs to lead it through the challenges of this moment. Mamdani, a Democratic socialist and state assemblyman, won the party's primary over former governor Andrew Cuomo. Hochul's endorsement comes after weeks of speculation, as Mamdani has faced criticism over his past remarks about Israel and policing. And newly released documents reveal Federal Reserve governor Lisa Cook did declare financial for in financial forms that her Atlanta property would be a vacation home. The new documents, obtained by NBC News, appear to contradict the Trump administration's allegations that Cook committed mortgage fraud by claiming two homes as her primary residences. Records show that Cook did not attempt to use tax exemptions that are available for primary homes in Fulton County, Georgia, and that she called her property in Atlanta a second home on a national security questionnaire that was submitted to the Biden administration back in 2021. The White House did not respond to NBC News's request for comment.
- [28:10]
Joe Scarborough
So, David Ignace, a few things come to mind with it with chairman McCaul stepping down at the end of this term. One is he's been a stalwart champion of Ukraine and freedom and the fight against Russian imperialism pushing into Ukraine, trying to take over that country. And little, little more in the headlines right now. What's going on in Israel as we speak? We have the secretary of State, Marco Rubio, talking with Netanyahu and the Israeli government, I suspect, about the Qatar strike last week. Walk us through those two issues right now. Where are we on Ukraine? And.
- [28:54]
David Ignatius
So just to say a word first about Congressman Mike McCaul, he is an embodiment of the kind of center left, center right, establishment view on foreign policy. Establishment makes it sound sinister, but this was a consensus of people who had shared ideas about the country, about protecting, standing with its friends and allies. And he'll really be missed. One thing that strikes me, Joe, as I look at the world right now is that in two places where President Trump has tried hard to stop wars, Ukraine and the war in Gaza, he's been met with escalation by Vladimir Putin on the one end and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on the other. I commend Trump's efforts to bring peace to both these places. I think sometimes they've been naive, but I think he's really making the effort. The killing in Doha, the Israeli strike there came as a group of Hamas leaders was gathering to discuss President Trump's latest peace proposal. And there's, there's growing speculation that, in truth, the Netanyahu government doesn't want a negotiated settlement in Gaza. It wants to continue the war until it's got total surrender from Hamas as opposed to negotiation. So I think this is a time when President Trump, if he really is serious about bringing peace to these places, has to speak with a louder voice. He is the leader of the most powerful nation on earth. And to be to have his peace plan met in Ukraine is the best example by nearly a thousand drones from Moscow as he's trying to talk peace. That should outrage the president. He should say that's completely unacceptable. Gaza war is going to be harder to stop, if anything. But there, too, the president has some good ideas. He just needs to follow through on them.
- [31:01]
Joe Scarborough
Katie, I know you have a question for David, but I'm just curious. Talk about where Europe is right now with the continued foot traffic dragging from the White House on Ukraine with those sanctions, with, with a strong response to the continued slaughter and killing of the Ukrainian people by Vladimir Putin?
- [31:20]
David Drucker
Well, I mean, we've seen a kind of shift from the president over the weekend on the sanctions now putting the onus and from Lindsey Graham on the Sunday show is putting the onus back on the Europeans to put secondary sanctions and tariffs on the Chinese and the Indians in sense to join Donald Trump's effort. So it feels like there is more of a delay effort from the White House at the moment in the face of this enormous support in the US Senate for this sanctions package. This feels like the president saying, okay, but hold on a second. We can't have that yet until the Europeans have it as well. David Drucker, how do you explain where we are now given the meeting in Anchorage, given the deadlines that the president continuously sets, that there was going to be a meeting between Zelenskyy and Putin, that the Russians were going to heed some of the White House's demands or else and yet and now again, the Europeans have to put these secondary sanctions on before America will do anything more. America is not going to push harder. How do you account for, for somebody who takes the art of the deal so seriously, the constant delaying which, which leads to the position in Europe amongst Europeans that I speak to that actually President Trump is just not serious about putting pressure on Russia ever?
- [32:40]
Pablo Torre
Well, because it doesn't appear that he is or doesn't want to.
- [32:44]
David Ignatius
Right.
- [32:44]
Pablo Torre
I mean, I think one of the characteristics of Donald Trump's foreign policy is that nations that he can squeeze where the United States is the bigger player and that's most nations, but nations that he can squeeze in pressure, he squeezes in pressures. And nations that he can't, like China and Russia, he just simply doesn't. I think a good way to look at the dichotomy here is look at how notwithstanding, you know, this ongoing effort to solve the problem in Gaza, look at the president's behavior and strategy in the Middle east where he has been willing to squeeze Iran, he has been willing to behe's been willing to both finesse diplomatically but, but use the US Military to give that diplomacy teeth. And when it comes to dealing with China and with Russia, he talks about or Israel or is correct. But when it comes to dealing with China and Russia in particular, look, Israel is a US Ally and I just think that's a separate case. And people can disagree with the president giving Benjamin Netanyahu and the Israeli government latitude to conduct the war in Gaza, but we're dealing with a democratic ally and it's and it's wholly different. Right. China and Russia are known U.S. adversaries. They're acting like U.S. adversaries. And the president, number one, has used a very inexperienced diplomat, Steve Witkoff, as his emissary rather than Marco Rubio, the secretary of state, who knows these issues and knows the world really well. Agree with him or not. And I think, number one, we have a failure of that strategy. But number two, the president is just unwilling to throw his weight around with countries where it is difficult to do so. I would say, however, that the president's point about Europe not doing enough to squeeze the Russians is an accurate point. And even though the president owns his failures here, the Europeans, as a way to encourage him to act tougher and see if he might actually deliver, should be doing more when it comes to dealing with Russia than they have been doing.
- [34:47]
Katty Kay
The post from the president the other day in this proposal about these sanctions. I mean, it's a not serious offer. It's a not serious offer, this proposal, you know, NATO members to stop buying Russian oil. Well, Hungary is not going to do that. You know, Slovakia is probably not going to do that. Those are countries that are allied with Russia sometimes or at least, you know, have warmer relations. You know, and they had tariffs on China. That's China, you know, obviously a piece of this because they're supplying much of Moscow's war machine. They're not directly involved in Europe, the EU tariffing, China, also a non starter. Those seem almost like poison pills. So I agree with what the Davids just said there, that this is something that's just going to cause more time. There's going to be a delay tactic. It's yet another moment where the White House seems to be kicking the can down the road. And we I have heard over recent days, you know, the president embarrassed by what happened in Anchorage, that Putin has only ratcheted up his attacks since. I'm told he's certainly angry at Prime Minister Netanyahu for that attack in Doha. But at a certain point, fuming needs to turn into action. Many, even Republicans, are saying privately they're pushing President Trump do something. But at least right now, Joe Mika, he's not nothing.
- [35:54]
Mika Brzezinski
All right, the Washington Post, David Ignatius and senior writer for the Dispatch, David Drucker. Thank you both very much for being on the show this morning. And up next, Pablo Torre joins us with his takeaways from Week 2 of the NFL regular season. We're going to have the Morning Joe football power rankings Plus a check on the major league baseball teams and the hunt for October when we come right back. Listen to this.
- [36:37]
Joe Scarborough
AI had the time of my life.
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Jonathan Lemire
Life.
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Joe Scarborough
Hey, I never felt this way before.
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Joe Scarborough
And I owe it all to you.
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Joe Scarborough
That's a hard question.
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Jonathan Lemire
Something that you can strive for.
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David Drucker
I'm able to do anything I set my mind to. You're confident in yourself and you believe in yourself.
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Joe Scarborough
Stuff that you could achieve.
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Jonathan Lemire
Shoes are a huge part of that. That they are the most important part of my style.
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David Drucker
You can like express yourself in the right shoes.
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Joe Scarborough
Anything is possible. Dsw countless shoes at brag worthy prices. Imagine the possibilities. He took some snap out there, but.
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- [37:57]
Joe Scarborough
Thank you, Trace. Look at that move by Cook. Oh, still going. James Cook to the end zone for a touchdown. You know they're just not playing for the field goal only. There's gonna. He does it again after changing the play. Lamar backpedaling.
- [38:17]
Jonathan Lemire
He does this so well and then finds an opening. He runs up and throws toward the end zone.
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Joe Scarborough
Caught. Touchdown Ravens. They go way back. Grounding paintball one hand. Are you serious?
- [38:34]
Jonathan Lemire
Seattle avoids disaster on third down. Now play action. Shot downfield.
- [38:39]
Joe Scarborough
Smith in jig has got it. Prescott looking long.
- [38:43]
Jonathan Lemire
Wa it up for pickings.
- [38:45]
Joe Scarborough
Who's got it? They're in field goal range all the way. Daniel Jones. They got by one. Taylor gets by another. Oh, he's off to the races and fundraisers for 10. Here comes a bunga. There goes Taylor out of bounds at the nine. Oh, what a run blitz. Mahomes over the middle. Kelt. Oh, it's picked off. It's Makuba who's got it. And room to one man to beat. And he's taken out. Those are some of the big plays from the winning teams across the NFL yesterday, including the Philadelphia Phil Eagles big win over the Kansas City Chiefs and their super bowl rematch to Minneapolis and the Vikings hosting the Falcons on Sunday night football. Quarterback J.J. mcCarthy smothered all night by the Falcons defense which sacked the Minnesota single caller six time and forced him to commit three turnovers. Kicker Parker Romo made five field goals in his debut for Atlanta and the Falcons beat the Vikings 22 to 6. Monday night doubleheader will cap week two of the regular season. The Texans ready to host Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the LA Chargers will visit the Las Vegas Raiders. That's bringing right now, the host of Pablo Torre finds out. Metal Arc Media MSNBC contributor Pablo Torrey. Pablo, where do we begin? You know, it's interesting. I mean, I almost feel like when we're talking about the best teams after week two, before tonight's games, you really have to start Thursday night at Lambeau Field. By you just how extraordinarily well the packers defense played. By the way, we had all the computers, all of our ao.
- [40:30]
Jonathan Lemire
Wait, wait, hold on.
- [40:34]
Joe Scarborough
NFL power rankings. We have. The packers just dominated Lambo and the white out there. The Eagles 2, the Bills 3, the Lions 4, and the Ravens 5. Pick that apart and tell me who you thought the big winners were from Sunday.
- [40:52]
Jonathan Lemire
I don't dispute that the packers are number one. I just want to know who's on this committee because this is, this is something that. For the. For the transparency that of course, your viewers accept and only expect of my journalism. I was not consulted. So you guys have like, I presume, a hotel ballroom that you rent out. And there's a whole deliberation and there are arguments and Lemire has a smoking jacket.
- [41:16]
Mika Brzezinski
Yeah.
- [41:17]
Jonathan Lemire
What's happening?
- [41:20]
Joe Scarborough
We rent out the Midtown Marriott. We're up all night. Willie has lav, Mike. A lot of smoking cigars in there.
- [41:29]
Jonathan Lemire
Yeah, that's right.
- [41:30]
Joe Scarborough
And. Yeah, yeah. And then we narrow it all down and this is where you come out. If you don't like it, I'm sorry, you don't have to be here. But it's a process. Hey, always trust the process, okay, Pablo? Always trust the process. Really? Seriously, if you're a Star wars fan, it's a point where Luke asks Obi Wan about his father and he says, you know, by now actually more machine than man. So I'm suspecting about 85% of that is machine generated. And maybe I switch one or two around. Yeah, that funny AI thing. But anyway, so now that you know that, what's your takeaway from week two?
- [42:15]
Jonathan Lemire
Yeah, I mean, I want to start with the fact that when you look at that Lions Bears game, there are a Couple of things for me as a guy who I don't know drafted Caleb Williams as his quarterback in fantasy is personally disappointed by. As I watch your one time super bowl pick. The Lions just do whatever they want. The story of this again, by the way, a Star wars kind of story. The master and the pupil. Ben Johnson, the offensive coordinator of the Lions, gets hired to be the head coach of the Bears. And here you are. Here is Ben Johnson's Bears against a Lions team with Jared Goff once again, five touchdowns. So, okay, Detroit, now back in the conversation. Back knocking on the door of your Marriott ballroom saying, don't forget about us. As the season progresses, meanwhile the Bears, it's just, I just feel horrible for the city of Chicago and its surrounding environs because this is a defense that is purely theoretical and they have a quarterback who is also entirely just a thought experiment.
- [43:20]
Joe Scarborough
Listen, and man, this is Pablo, I really, I wish you nothing but good things, but I don't know how you drafted Caleb Williams as your quarterback after hearing me for a year talking about how Caleb Williams was going to be a bust from, from the day, the day after he got drafted by the Bears. He's just not on that level. He does not. Tell you what, what's so interesting about the line. Lions victory and you know, the Lions crushed the Bears and you say they're back in the conversation. Why were they out of the conversation? Because they played the packers first. So now you have the packers taking two really good teams.
- [43:59]
Jonathan Lemire
Yes.
- [43:59]
Joe Scarborough
And actually for the first time, Jaden Daniels, I mean, that guy scrambled 17 times. He made 14 yards. That defense, suddenly you're thinking, hey, maybe, just maybe the Cowboys should not have gotten rid of. I mean, it's just again, this is a complete team. I want to talk about quarterback injuries also. Joe Burrow, Brock Purdy, Justin Fields, all out. The one thing interesting coming out of that is that actually Mac Jones showed up in San Francisco and put a very good game together, won the game.
- [44:37]
Jonathan Lemire
The noises emanating from the side of the table that has Lemire on it is just. How does that feel? How does that feel for Mac Jones to be resurgent? Resurgent after abandoning, of course, you and your Patriots.
- [44:51]
Katty Kay
I don't blame him for that. That was sort of the end of the Belichick era. He didn't have any help at all from an offensive coordinator. He didn't have an offensive coordinator. So it is what it is. But yeah, there were zones there. The Burrow injury is tough.
- [45:03]
Jonathan Lemire
That's the one I want to focus on it's just because you have. I mean, look, if you're a football fan, Jon, you know that Joe Burrow has been. There should be an animal worse than snake when you say someone like Joe Burrow has been snake bitten. Yeah, this is a guy who has every. This is a guy is what a football commentator says. This is a guy. This is a guy whose legs have failed him. But more to the point, you could argue his offensive line has failed him, his team around him has failed him, his defense has failed him. The fact that Joe the Bengal have a cart to take him off the field is a failure. He's limping off like it's the 60s. You guys have cart technology in Cincinnati? I believe so. All of this is just like, I don't know how we stress about quarterbacks being billion dollar assets and you don't take care of yours like that. It's just, it's horrific from a football perspective.
- [45:59]
Joe Scarborough
I mean, they could have at least gotten one of those like 1970s cards from Riverfront Stadium where they would cart out really fat relief pitchers from the bullpen to the mound. People don't remember that happening.
- [46:11]
Jonathan Lemire
But yes, we used to be a proper country.
- [46:16]
Joe Scarborough
We used to be a proper country. You know, I've got to follow up with just hurting for Joe Burrow. You know, John Lemire, one of my sons asked me, daddy, why do we hate every team that ever beat Alabama?
- [46:31]
Mika Brzezinski
And that's not how Jack, daddy, that's.
- [46:33]
Joe Scarborough
Not how many of them talk. But I thought it might be, daddy, why do we. We hate every quarterback that beat Alabama except for Joe Burrow. Why is Jackson Joe Burrow? Because Joe Burrow is so damn good.
- [46:46]
Jonathan Lemire
Jack Burville.
- [46:48]
Joe Scarborough
But. But he is. How do you not root for Joe Burrow? It's heartbreaking. But let's talk about what was lined up is really the game of the week should have been the game of the week, the super bowl rematch. And as we predicted, Pablo of course didn't. And that's why we don't allow him in the ballro. As we predicted, the Chiefs once again struggling. Lock it. Deadbolt it. The Chiefs. Oh, and two. Yeah.
- [47:17]
Katty Kay
Morning Joe Power rankings. No sign of the Kansas City Chiefs. Let's be clear, this was not a great game. Both defenses played pretty well. I mean, the Eagles did just enough on offense. Their defense was great. And I think this is the storyline here. Yes, that's a good run from Mahomes, but he didn't do much else. He missed a couple guys. Wide open throws though. The Biggest play of the game right here. Not his fault. He's got Kelce there at the goal line. Maybe he's in, maybe he's not, but the drive is going to continue. Kelsey simply drops it and the ball bounces up into the hands of the Eagles defender who then runs it back. That kind of was the end of the game. You know, they, they, they sealed it off as soon there afterwards. So Pablo, let's, let's talk cheat. First of all, the Eagles 2, 0, they're taking care of business. They look fine, they're defensive, defense looks good. You figure the offense will continue to wake up as the year goes on. Set them aside, let's Talk Kansas City 02. Look, schedule's been tough. You know, their infrastructure has earned the benefit of the doubt. That said, this offense is not what it used to be. Mahomes does not have the weapons he once did, and the quarterback himself has not come through in the clutch the last year or two like he used to.
- [48:24]
Jonathan Lemire
Yeah. So as somebody who had that game that you just saw clips of as his super bowl pick for this season, the troubling part for me, and of course Claire McCaskill, is that the thing about Mahomes is that he hasn't quite looked like Mahomes during the regular season, especially first halves of the regular season, especially for a couple of seasons now. And so from that perspective, the legend of Mahomes and the reason why I still continue to be a Mahomes stockholder, is that it feels obvious that this guy, he is the preeminent magician Joe in the NFL. He should be pulling wins, as he's always done, out of his keister. And in this case, there was no rabbit. It was something else, my friend.
- [49:07]
Joe Scarborough
The keister is closed. Let me tell you something. What he did over the last two seasons I think is pretty remarkable and speaks to how he can take an average to pretty good team to incredible heights. And so, yeah, I think so. I'm afraid though, what he was able to do two years ago and last year, I mean, just this year, it's passing, it really is. There's only so much he can do. I thought last year and the year before showed what a great quarterback Mahomes was. Just this year, it's too much. They can't do it again. Pablo, let me show you something. At the very end, we hate to do this. We're in midtown Manhattan.
- [49:47]
Jonathan Lemire
It's a keister.
- [49:47]
Joe Scarborough
You showed me a keystone. We have to pick the worst New York teams number one. And let me just Say with a big star. Number one, the New York Jets. Pablo, how bad? This is a team I love, by the way. First Super Bowl I remember was 69. I barely remember it, but I've always had a special place in my heart for the New York jets. And as always, the New York jets break my heart. Why are they so bad?
- [50:19]
Jonathan Lemire
Yeah, look, I get the whole like, Namath, Alabama to the jets pipeline line that made you on some level sympathetic. But now you think of Joe Namath holding his finger up in the air and thinking he's saying they are the number one worst team in the New York area, the Jets.
- [50:35]
Joe Scarborough
What? It's in my power ranking. Look at. Look at the power ranking. Nobody knew that. Let's put it up, tj. Nobody knew that when breaking. He was not only talking about 1969, but he knew this day was coming on Morning Joe. But go ahead.
- [50:52]
Jonathan Lemire
The question of, like, why are the jets the worst? Is kind of a philosophical riddle that the great scholars of our time have failed to summarize in the time you've allotted to me. It probably starts with whatever was underneath the stadium that they built upon. It probably continues to. The whole idea of.
- [51:13]
Joe Scarborough
Jimmy, I don't know.
- [51:15]
Jonathan Lemire
Look, you said it, not me. But the whole idea that Aaron Rodgers comes in and proves you wrong in week one and now you're just back to being curb stomped. I don't know. It feels sad. It feels.
- [51:30]
Mika Brzezinski
Can you get that out of Chiron?
- [51:32]
Joe Scarborough
It's sad. It's always sad.
- [51:33]
Jonathan Lemire
That's what I would say.
- [51:34]
Joe Scarborough
It's always sad. I mean, people that curb your enthusiasm know that actually a character and Curb killed themselves because of the New York Jets. They were so bad. It's a terrible. An accurate depiction and it is. It is very sad. Number two on the list. Of course. I've got to say, I love to. Other than the jets hate New York teams, but the Giants have always left me cold. They have the soul of Microsoft. So I don't really like them, I don't hate them, but they are. They are the second worst. They are the second worst team in New York right now. Amir, why do they keep coming up short?
- [52:13]
Katty Kay
They're at least entertaining this year. Maybe they, I mean, they played a classic. I mean, a game that will mean nothing by the end of the season. But a really fun game against the Cowboys yesterday that Featured, I believe, five leaf changes in the fourth quarter. The Cowboys kicker hit a 64 yarder like it was nothing at the end of regulation to send it to overtime. Cowboys do win. And we should note Joe Mika, that last team on the list there, the Mets did win yesterday. They did win yesterday.
- [52:39]
Joe Scarborough
Finally.
- [52:40]
Katty Kay
Finally. But that comes after an eight game losing streak that has almost cost them their penal spot. They're just barely ahead of the Giants, hanging on for the last wild card in the nl.
- [52:49]
Joe Scarborough
I mean, seriously, the Mets, the number of times I've checked the standings and the mets are neither 5, 6, 7 game losing streaks. It's happened all year. It is absolutely staggering. There they are. And maybe they'll hold on if they can snap out, out of, you know, snap out of it. But I, I, that's a team you want to talk about a team that is an enduring mystery on how they can be as bad finally. I do, I do feel. Pablo, we have to go. But I do feel like we need to talk about two standouts though. Caveats on what I said about the Giants. Malik Neighbors had a great day yesterday. The second year star had a great day. And you know what's coming next. Rock until he decided just to whip the final ball up in the air and blow the game.
- [53:40]
Jonathan Lemire
Dark side of the moon ball is what the back page of the Post has on Russell Wilson. And look for those not familiar with Pink Floyd, pick your favorite song. It does feel like a strange drug to be on the Russell Wilson experience. And look, I just want to say.
- [53:59]
Joe Scarborough
Though Russell, though 450 yards yesterday has ever thrown before.
- [54:05]
Jonathan Lemire
It's an incredibly strange trip. It is the dizzying highs and then the, of course, puzzling lows. And I just want to know, why is Meecham on the committee and not me? Who else is in there? Who you guys got is revs in there? Meechum.
- [54:18]
Joe Scarborough
It's a secret.
- [54:19]
Katty Kay
Can't tell you.
- [54:20]
Joe Scarborough
It's a secret.
- [54:20]
Mika Brzezinski
Pretty much everybody.
- [54:22]
Joe Scarborough
We can't tell you.
- [54:23]
Mika Brzezinski
Another brick.
- [54:24]
Joe Scarborough
Everybody but you.
- [54:24]
Mika Brzezinski
Pablo Torre. Thank you very much.
- [54:26]
Joe Scarborough
Get another Lumiere.
- [54:28]
Mika Brzezinski
Oh, Sam's definitely in there.
- [54:30]
Joe Scarborough
Lumiere, give another bolt for the door.
- [54:32]
Katty Kay
Door for now.
- [54:33]
Joe Scarborough
Yeah. We're gonna need a bigger bolt.
- [54:36]
Jonathan Lemire
Cat is there too. I didn't know what football is. She's there.
- [54:39]
Joe Scarborough
No, of course she is.
- [54:40]
Mika Brzezinski
Of course she is. Yeah. Just stop. All right.
- [54:44]
Joe Scarborough
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Pablo Torre
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Joe Scarborough
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Joe Scarborough
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Joe Scarborough
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