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Morning Joe
Morning Joe 11/18/24
00:58:40
The Morning Joe panel discusses the latest in U.S. and world news, politics, sports and culture
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- [00:01]
Joe Scarborough
The kind of burgers you get today tells you a lot about yourself. You're either someone who settles for sad same old same old burgers or you're Edit Carl's Jr obsessed with a tangy OG Western bacon cheeseburger demanding a house made guacamole, loaded guac bacon fired up for the insanely hot El Diablo or craving a classic Charbold Famous star. Give in to your flavored cravings.
- [00:25]
Mika Brzezinski
Do your mouth to Carl's Jr. Big Burger good Burger.
- [00:31]
David Ignatius
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- [01:03]
Mika Brzezinski
Absolutely. And I believe the, I believe the Senate should have access to that. Now, should it be released to the public or not? That's, I guess that will be part of the negotiations, but that should be definitely part of our decision making.
- [01:16]
John Meacham
Once again, I go back to it.
- [01:18]
Mika Brzezinski
In Article 2, Section 2 in the Constitution, the Senate has to advise and consent these individuals. And in that process, we're going to give Matt Gaetz the same chances we'll give all President Trump's nominees. Of course it should be released.
- [01:34]
Jonathan Lemire
And that's not just Democrats saying that. You have repeatedly seen Senate Republicans make clear who are on the Senate Judiciary Committee or throughout that chamber say that they want access to all available information so they can make a decision about whether the nominee for Attorney general is qualified to serve in that office. A bipartisan call yesterday for the release of an ethics report on Donald Trump's pick for Attorney General will show you the response from House Speaker Mike Johnson. And take a look at where support for Matt Gaetz nomination stands with senators right now. Plus, the latest on a sexual assault allegation against former Fox News host Pete Hegseth, who Trump has selected as Secretary of Defense. Meanwhile, in the final stretch of his term, President Biden is making a major policy change allowing Ukraine to use American made long range missiles for strikes inside of Russia will explain how it could impact the war. And President Biden held what is likely to be his final meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping over the weekend. We'll have more about that. Sit down. And what the Chinese leader had to say about the incoming administration. Good morning. And welcome to Morning Joe. It is Monday, November 18th. With us, we have the host of Way Too Early, White House bureau chief at Politico, Jonathan Lemire, columnist and associate editor for the Washington Post, David Ignatius is with us. And Rogers Chair in the American Presidency at Vanderbilt University, historian John Meacham. A great group this morning. A lot of news to get to. We have some news to break as well. So a big day today.
- [03:23]
Mika Brzezinski
A big day today. Mika. I know with all the things going on, though, not only in Washington, D.C. but across the world. The thing you'd like us to talk about first is Josh Allen. Jonathan Lemire, Let me tell you something. Steve Young made some extraordinary runs back in the 1980s, especially in 88 against the Vikings in a playoff game. But Josh Allen last night in probably the game of the year in the NFL. What a finish.
- [03:52]
Pablo Torre
The nation needed this.
- [03:53]
Mika Brzezinski
Joe.
- [03:54]
Pablo Torre
There he is. There's Josh Allen. This is the signature play of the year right now. That puts him, I'd argue, as the frontrunner for NFL MVP this year. The stakes were so big. It was a fourth and two, the Bills on the outside outskirts of field goal range. But there was time left on the clock that had they only gotten three, or if Josh Allen had been stopped here, you knew that the Kansas City Chiefs and Patrick Mahomes would do what they do so often and go down the field and score and break the hearts of the Buffalo Bills. The Bills went for it, 4th and 2. You saw that run. Extraordinary athleticism. Bills win, Chiefs take their first loss of the season.
- [04:32]
Mika Brzezinski
It's just unbelievable how fast, how strong, how powerful the guy is. What, what an athlete. Also, m really wanted us to talk about the Steelers and the Ravens. Another barn burner, another extraordinary game. But I'll tell you what, Mikael, we will wait. We have Pablo coming up in about 30 minutes or so, and he'll take us through all the games.
- [04:52]
Jonathan Lemire
Good. Okay, so here's where we are. Over the past week, Joe and I have heard from so many people, from political leaders to regular citizens, deeply dismayed by several of President Elect Trump's cabinet selections. And they are scared. Last Thursday, we expressed our own concerns on this broadcast and even said we would appreciate the opportunity to speak with the President elect himself. On Friday, we were given the opportunity to do just that. Joe and I went to Mar A Lago to meet personally with President Elect Trump. It was the first time we have seen him in seven years.
- [05:33]
Mika Brzezinski
Now, we talked about a lot of issues, including abortion, mass deportation, threats of political retribution against political opponents. And media outlets. We talked about that a good bit. And it's going to come as no surprise to anybody who watches this show, has watched it over the past year or over the past decade, that we didn't see eye to eye on a lot of issues. And we told him so.
- [05:58]
Jonathan Lemire
What we did agree on was to restart communications. My father often spoke with world leaders with whom he and the United States profoundly disagreed. That's a task shared by reporters and commentators alike. We had not spoken to President Trump Since March of 2020, other than a personal call Joe made to Trump on the morning after the attempt on his life in Butler, Pennsylvania. In this meeting, President Trump was tearful. He was upbeat. He seemed interested in finding common ground with Democrats on some of the most divisive issues. And for those asking why we would go speak to the President elect during such fraught times, especially between us, I guess I would ask back, why wouldn't we? Five years of political warfare has deeply divided Washington and the country. We have been as clear as we know how in expressing our deep concerns about President Trump's actions and words in the coarsening of public debate. But for nearly 80 million Americans, election denialism, public trials, and January 6th were not as important as the issues that moved them to send Donald Trump back to the White House with their vote. Joe and I realize it's time to do something different, and that starts with not only talking about Donald Trump, but also talking with him.
- [07:30]
Mika Brzezinski
As somebody close to Donald Trump told me this past weekend, this is a president who's not seeking reelection. So maybe, just maybe, now could be the time for both parties to get to work. And I know, given the jarring headlines that we read every day, that may seem like a stretch. But think about this. Of the 150 million votes cast, Donald Trump got 50%. Kamala Harris got about 49%. So I don't know. Seems to make sense for leaders of both parties to seek common ground, if it's possible at all. And I will tell you, a lot of Democratic leaders we've talked to this past week since the election have told Mika and me it's time for a new approach. And when I say top Democrats, I mean top Democrats, they said, we're open. And this was before we talked to Donald Trump. They said, listen, we're open to working with the incoming president, if the incoming president is open to working with us.
- [08:44]
Jonathan Lemire
Yeah. The question is, though, how do we get there? Hyperbole and personal attacks will not work. My hair on fire doesn't work. We've all seen that what also does not work is threatening political opponents with arrest, harassment, and even jail. That is a failed path. Recent history has proven that impeachments and trials turn those on trial into political martyrs and only make them more popular with the American people. Just ask Bill Clinton and Donald Trump. We know this will be a consequential presidency. The question is whether it will be constructive. It will take a new approach from all sides, from both parties and a leader who can bring them together. And only time will tell if Donald Trump is that leader. As for us, we also let him know that we will continue to speak truth to power and push back hard when called for, as we have with all presidents.
- [09:49]
Mika Brzezinski
Don't be mistaken. We're not here to defend or normalize Donald Trump. We're here to report on him and to hopefully provide you insights that are going to better equip all of us in understanding these deeply unsettling times. And I am reminded of what Marty Barron, legendary editor, told his Washington Post reporters back in the first term. We're not going to war, we're going to work. So let's go to work now with David Ignatius. David, first of all, I love. And I told Marty, I love, I love, I love what he said. We're not going to war, we're going to work. I tell you what, with Meek and me, it has been, it's been very personal over the past eight years. It has been war on both sides, political war on both sides. And I'm reminded of a conversation we had with you this summer after I called President Trump after the assassination attempt. I just talked to him and said, you know, politics is politics. We disagree on so many things, but just, you know, I made a call like so many other people made a call and saying I was hoping that he was doing all right. We had a discussion a couple of days later. You, Mika and myself and you had a recommendation to Mika that kind of went along the line of what Marty Baron told the Washington Post seven, eight years ago. You want to talk about that?
- [11:21]
Jackie Alemany
So, Joe and Mika, we're in the news business, which means that we talk to people. That's part of how we do our jobs. We're also in the truth business, which means we have to hold people accountable when we see things that we think are wrong are going to hurt the country. We have to be very forthright in saying that. Last week, when President Elect Trump named his nominees for key positions, I wrote a column saying that some of them seemed qualified and reasonable choices, others seemed to be Coming at their jobs with a wrecking ball. They were going after the military and intelligence agencies, it seemed, from their past statements, in a way that would only harm those institutions. I've been a journalist now for so many years, but I can remember when I covered the Middle East, I would talk to Yasser Arafat, the head of the PLO in Beirut, and a few weeks later, I'd be talking to Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin in Jerusalem. That's just part of what doing the job means. As Mika said, her own dad, although he wasn't a journalist, was always talking to people. So I think we need to keep that in mind, those two things. We're in the news business, and we're in the truth business.
- [12:30]
Mika Brzezinski
You know, David, also, I remember. I remember during the first term, at one point, you may not even remember this phone call as walking through the airport and you politely said, every day, Joe, every day. It's the same thing on your show when you can find common ground. Find common ground, talk about it. And I noticed you do that. I mean, I will tell you, when so many people were in shock and Meek and I were surprised, too, after the election result. Your first column was talking about how Donald Trump had the possibility to move us closer to peace in the Middle East. I think that was a very important column to write at the time. Again, I thought I was a little surprised when I read it right after the election. But then you follow that up with some really tough columns about the real dangers with his DOD pick and also with Tulsi Gabbard. Is that the type of balancing you're talking about?
- [13:30]
Jackie Alemany
It is, Joe. I think we in the news business, in commentary, need to call him as we see him during Donald Trump's first term when he did something that I thought made sense. The Abraham Accords between Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain are a perfect example. I said without hesitation that I thought this was good for the country, good for the region. I felt the same way about negotiating with North Korea to try to reduce the risk of nuclear war. When he did things I thought hurt the country, I tried to be as emphatic again as I could be. But we're in the business of covering the world, trying to see it whole. And if people think that we are partisans on one side or another, I think in the end their confidence in our ability to tell the truth, to do our job, declines. You see that some of that in some of the poll numbers about how people feel about journalism. I don't want to add to that.
- [14:24]
Mika Brzezinski
Well, and of course, you look at the results of the election, too. A new approach, I think is needed where, again, we speak truth to power. We push back hard, like we pushed back hard whether it was with Barack Obama, whether it was with George W. Bush, whether it was obviously with Donald Trump or Joe Biden. I want to, I want to ask you, Jon Meach, and bring you in here and you, I, we discussed this last night, and I was asking you your thoughts, and you had, you had said, you said, you know, this is going to be a consequential presidency. It just is, one way or the other. The question is whether it's going to be constructive. And I'm just curious your thoughts. We saw pics last week that I think were horrifying to a good number of Americans, for many Republicans as well. So these are extraordinarily fraught times. I'm curious about where we stand right now in history, what you've seen, what is the best way forward, not only for reporters, but for all Americans. And what does history teach us about moments like these?
- [15:47]
John Meacham
Yeah, it's the most significant test of citizenship and of our, really, I would argue, our patriotic commitments as opposed to our nationalistic appetites. So bear with me for a second. Patriotism, properly understood, is an allegiance not just to one's own kind, folks who look like you, but to an idea. And for us, that idea is the Declaration of Independence as embodied. That's the North Star. And then the Constitution, as amended, is the user's guide. And we, I think America has always can judge itself on how fully or how incompletely we're in accord with the principles of the Declaration. That's patriotism. And you, you assent, you agree to that idea. Nationalism is a loyalty to people who are already in your tribe, who are already in your clan with a, with a c. And so to me, those are competing impulses. They've been impulse, competing impulses from the beginning of the American project, and they'll continue to be. And so to me, the great test is how do those of us who fundamentally believe that the incoming administration is, like, so likely to be out of sync with the constitutional norms, the ethos that so many of us grew up with, and the fact that so many of us and everybody that we're talking to this morning has been part of this. I don't want to drag Ignatius totally into this, give him some cover, but we've argued again and again and again that a second Trump presidency was simply not worth the risk of the chaos and the unconstitutionalism but guess what? Those of us who believe in democracy have to obey the verdicts of that democracy. And as you pointed out, a dispositive number of American voters decided to try this one more time. And so we have a patriotic question. What do we do? We can't leave the arena because that would be preemptive surrender and defeat. So we have to stay in the arena and patriotically stand for what we believe in. And so I think that's where a lot of the country is. I'm very worried that, and I suspect y'all are hearing the same thing, that so many people seem so worn out by this struggle. And again, it's not mindless opposition, let's be clear, but it's also, it does require, as Jefferson said, eternal vigilance. And I would argue that the most important thing we can do at this point is enable the folks who stand on the guardrails. And in this immediate case, it's the Senate. Right. We need to. If you believe that some of these picks are extreme, and they are, you have to, because we all act, as Lincoln said, all, all people act on incentive. We need to signal to those who have a stake in this, who have the vote on this, that there are people who believe that they're extreme. And so we're removing ourselves from the arena. Tuning out, I think, would be the worst possible result.
- [19:38]
Mika Brzezinski
Well, I mean, Republicans will tell you that some of these picks are extreme. I think it's important to look at, you know, the first week when, when Susie Wiles was selected, there are a lot of people that applauded that selection. When Marco Rubio is like a lot of people, they didn't agree with Marco Rubio at all, said, okay, well, that's a Secretary of State pick that seems, you know, he will be able to work with both sides because he was a senator and certainly worked with both sides with Mark Warner on the Intel Committee, you can look at other picks. John Radcliffe, Cliff somebody who a lot of Democrats in the media were opposed to several years ago, said, okay, well, that's. That's also seems to be within the guardrails. Some of these elections have not been in the guardrails. David Ignatius. And so you've talked about it, and I think it's a good balance. You know, it reminds me, after Ronald Reagan got elected, you and I are actually. Well, you probably aren't, but I'm old enough to remember when Ronald Reagan got elected, he had a massive landslide. And he was on Good Morning America the next day, and they asked him, well, what do you do now? And he said, we're the loyal opposition. We're going to fight him where it is necessary to fight him, not making it personal, but fight him on political issues. And where we can agree, we will agree. And I think that's very important. And I think it's also obviously very important. There are a lot of people that are very scared by the selection of his attorney general selection. A lot of Republicans scared by it. There are a lot of Republicans who are scared as well as Democrats by the selection of Tulsi Gabbard only because of her connections with Syria, because she is at times in the Ukrainian war. She is just echoed the words of Vladimir Putin and Russia. So there are a lot of people that are concerned that Donald Trump and his administration will not get the intel they need, because you can speak to this very well. There are just going to be other countries that are not going to share information and sensitive intel with Tulsi Gabbard. And so, as I said last week repeatedly, a pick like Tulsi Gabbard or a pick like Matt Gaetz for ag, that's not just bad for the Republican Party, that's not just bad for America. It's bad for Donald Trump because it makes him less effective. I understand he wants to find loyalists that will go in and overturn the rocks, you know, and see what's underneath in all of these different bureaucracies. And I think most Americans would say, okay, that's good, but not political retribution and not these selections that will end up hurting him and make him less effective and make the United States less effective.
- [22:40]
Jackie Alemany
So, Joe, as you know, well, the military, the intelligence agencies, are full of thousands of people who want to serve their country. That's why they're doing it. And they want to be professional in how they do their jobs. They want to be respected. And I get nervous when I see a nominee who's been making headlines for years, as Pete Hegseth has, by attacking military leadership. I just worry that that's going to produce chaos and the opposite of what the country wants. There are going to be so many issues coming up where Donald Trump's going to make decisions that really matter for America and the world. What he does on Ukraine, whether he rewards the letter of Putin's aggression, whether he leaves the Ukrainians in terrible danger is a crucial issue. We need to cover that. We need to know a lot about the decisions he's making. Same thing with finding peace finally in these Middle east wars. Same thing with Iran and where our Policy toward Iran is going on all these areas. It's important that we do our work as journalists. When we see mistakes being made, poor choices being made, when we hear from allies around the world, these policies are hurting us. We need to get that information to the American public and to the White House for that matter, as readers, because that's part of how the system works. People try to implement policies, journalists and commentators comment, criticize, and hopefully the result comes out better.
- [24:15]
Jonathan Lemire
All right, Jonathan Lemaire, want you to jump in. I'm sure you have lots of thoughts and questions.
- [24:20]
Pablo Torre
Yeah, I mean, certainly I think anyone at this show and should be is rooting for America. That's what people do. Anytime a new president comes in, you root for that president to be a success, meaning good for the country, whether it's not necessarily about their particular policy or agenda. But there are, there are a lot of people out there who are very afraid right now. Yeah. And we should give, we will continue to give voice to those people who are very afraid of the prospect of another Donald Trump administration. But to Joe's point earlier, there are some Democrats who recognize they need to do some soul searching. They need to figure out how to work with this president, at least in some way to make this a successful four years for the country. Now, look, it passed his prologue. Every time Donald Trump is given a chance to be a uniter or a divider, he's chosen to be divisive. He is engaged in hateful rhetoric and at times racist rhetoric. He has pitted people against each other and certainly we have well chronicled over four years how he has strained our alliances abroad and at times hurt people here at home. But he now comes in into the office with a bit of a mandate. We will cover him like we should, clear eyed. And honestly, we have, as David just detailed, very well been critical when needed, of some of his cabinet selections, raised concerns because Republicans have raised concerns. Republicans have said that these picks might be not just to enact a personal agenda, but even perhaps destroy the very agencies or damage the very agencies they're meant. But we are in a new part right now. We're in a new moment for this country. And with any president coming in, we will speak truth to power and we will, when that president and or his, her staff does a good, does something well and effective, we'll note that, we'll talk to people, we'll get expert analysis. They'll say what they believe. The same, if that president is just a moment where that president does something that others criticize, will bring that too. That's our job on this show.
- [26:10]
Mika Brzezinski
So yeah, no doubt about it's our show. It's reporters job. And you know, I, Mika, I remember and you know, when we went out talking through the years, I remember after Rush Limbaugh had said that he was rooting against Barack Obama after he got elected, well, you know, I obviously, as you know, had a lot of problems with Barack Obama's policies and talked about him every day. I also said though, you can't root against the President of the United States without rooting against America. So I think most Americans, Again, we're a 5050 nation. We were a 5050 nation in 16. We were a 5050 nation In 20. We're a 5050 nation now. But at the same time, again, if passes prologue, this is going to be a tough, bumpy ride. At the same time we start this administration and again, keeping in mind what Marty Baron said, which is we're not going to war, we're going to work. And that's a bit of a change here. Not going to lie, that's a bit of a change. And so you speak truth to power, you push back hard. And again, the final thing I will say about this meeting, which again was, was on background, but of course we requested an interview as soon as possible for the show. But we spoke at length just about what Jonathan said. A lot of people are scared right now. They're scared about the threats of political retribution. They're scared about the threats of retribution against media people. They're scared that some potential pigs have actually said they are going to arrest members of the media or go after them civilly. All that does is make people martyrs. And that's something that we said. You know, you go after your political opponents, you turn them into martyrs, you make them the next President of the United States. So again, a lot of people are scared. A lot of people are nervous. Hopefully there will be a lot of lines of communication opened up, not just with us, but other members of the media, Democrats and hopefully Democrats and others can impress on the incoming President the need for both sides to work together. But make no mistake, this is a Republican town. Right now. Washington is a Republican town with a House and a Senate and a White House that is Republican. That's why what the Republicans in the Senate are doing right now, asking tough questions about his selections is so important again, not just for the country, but for the White House as well. Advise and consent and make sure the president has the best people working for him that he can have in the best interest of the United States.
- [29:11]
Jonathan Lemire
So I'm going to get to the news. But just a little hat tip, Joe, don't look at your phone. Mine's extended exploding. We're going to get to the latest reporting surrounding Donald Trump's cabinet pics in just a moment, but first, a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. A new wave of offensive text messages hit phones nationwide. These ones targeted Hispanic people and the LGBTQ community. It comes days after black people in over a dozen states reported receiving texts with hateful, racist language. The FBI is investigating. And Iowa pollster JN Seltzer is retiring from election polling after 25 years of predicting results. She had conducted the Iowa polling since 1997. While widely regarded for her analysis, Selzer's latest presidential poll missed badly. Trump won Iowa by 13 points, despite her numbers showing Kamala Harris ahead. Just days before the vote. And still ahead on Morning Joe, billionaire Elon Musk appears to publicly pressure the president elect on economic policy and a key cabinet pick irking some of Trump's advisers will bring in one of the reporters on that piece. Plus, Trump's transition team is compiling a list of military officials involved in the withdrawal from Afghanistan, exploring whether they could be court martialed. We'll dig into that. And whether or not treason charges could realistically be on the table. You're watching Morning Joe. We're back in 90 seconds.
- [30:49]
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- [32:23]
Joe Scarborough
Kind of burgers you get today tells you a lot about yourself. You're either someone who settles for sad same old same old burgers or you're Edda Carl's junior Obsessed with the tangy OG West Western bacon cheeseburger, demanding a house made guacamole, loaded guac bacon fired up for the insanely hot El Diablo or craving a classic Charbold Famous Star give into your flavor cravings. Get your mouth to Carl's Jr.
- [32:51]
Mika Brzezinski
Good.
- [32:52]
Jonathan Lemire
Burger 31 past the hour. Welcome back. A majority of Senate Republicans have told NBC News that Matt Gaetz does not have enough support to be confirmed as Attorney general. More than half of Senate Republicans, including some and senior leadership positions, privately say they don't see a path for the former Republican congressman. NBC News spoke to more than 15 additional Republican sources who agreed that there are not enough votes to confirm Gaetz, and some estimated that closer to 30 Republicans consider him unqualified. Gates had been under investigation by a bipartisan committee for allegations that he may have engaged in sexual misconduct, illegal drug use, and accepted improper gifts. He abruptly resigned last week just before the panel was set to vote on whether to release its findings. Gates, who was also investigated by the Department of Justice, has always denied the allegations and has never been criminally charged. Speaker Mike Johnson doesn't want the report released, arguing it would be a breach of protocol.
- [34:10]
Joe Scarborough
The comments about this being there's a.
- [34:12]
John Meacham
Precedent for releasing reports is not exactly accurate. Yeah, there are two breaches of the.
- [34:17]
Joe Scarborough
Tradition in the past under very extraordinary circumstances.
- [34:20]
John Meacham
I don't think this meets that criteria. There's a very important reason for the tradition and the rule that we always.
- [34:27]
Joe Scarborough
Have almost always followed, and that is.
- [34:29]
John Meacham
That we don't issue investigations and ethics reports on people who are not members of Congress.
- [34:34]
Joe Scarborough
I'm afraid that that would open a Pandora's box because the jurisdiction of the.
- [34:39]
John Meacham
Ethics Committee is limited to those who are serving in the institution. That's its very purpose. And I think this would be a.
- [34:44]
Joe Scarborough
Breach of protocol that could be dangerous for us going forward in the future.
- [34:47]
John Meacham
My understanding is that the report is not finished. It's in a rough draft form, was.
- [34:53]
Joe Scarborough
Not yet ready to be released and.
- [34:55]
John Meacham
Since Matt Gates left the Congress, I don't think it's appropriate to do so.
- [35:00]
Jonathan Lemire
All Right. Joe? I'm not sure that's all. I mean, I think other investigations have been released in the past in scenarios in which he. Yeah, yeah. So.
- [35:11]
Mika Brzezinski
Yeah, yeah, they certainly have. And a couple of things here, the reporting has been that they were going to release it on Friday.
- [35:18]
Jonathan Lemire
Right.
- [35:18]
Mika Brzezinski
He resigned a couple of days beforehand. So I don't know how rough a draft it was. Right. It's not like, it's not like monkeys with typewriters had been typing this up and like humans had to come in and like fix it. It was almost ready to be released and he abruptly resigned. So. Well, it appears. And Republicans in the Senate believe he abruptly resigned so it wouldn't be released. But Jonathan O'Mear, let me come to you. This is something Mike Johnson and every other member of the House can say whatever they want to say. But you look at Republican senators and what they've been saying, they're not going to vote on him, it appears, until they read that report. And what is in that report, According to the 17 year old, the woman who was 17 years old and a high school junior when she testified under oath that she had sex with the nominee that's gonna come out. And again, there's no way, there is no way that is going to survive in the United States Senate. So I'm curious, you know, you're hearing over the weekend people in background saying, oh, he's going to fight to the very end on this. I will tell you, this is the one thing we can report directly from it. He expressed surprise about the ethics report, expressed surprise about the testimony. And so I just don't know how this nomination goes forward in a way that doesn't hurt the administration and also that doesn't make matters even worse for the AG nominee. Yeah.
- [37:14]
Pablo Torre
So first, the lawyer of the 17 year old girl says that they had sex and also there are witnesses to this and that that's all going to be detailed in this report. And let's be clear, it was in its final stages. Maybe there was one last spell check that needed to be done, but it was on the brink of coming out. And Republicans, not just Democrats, Republicans in the Senate have made clear they will see it, even some who have been pretty staunch Trump allies, Senator Mullen of Oklahoma, for one, who is, you know, up and down, supports what the president elect wants to do. But he's made clear, he's like, no, no on this, we need to see this report before we really consider this nomination. And as NBC and others have reported over the weekend, there's Real doubts that Gates has anywhere near enough votes to get confirmed. Now, this raises the possibility due does Donald Trump try to force recess appointments to really take on the Senate, even try to break the Senate early on? We'll see. There's an institutionalist there. And John Thune is the new majority leader. He is being non committal to this, even as Mike Johnson has suggested he'd support it. But of course, the House, that's not their call. But it's an early test. And there is a sense, Mika, that a lot of these picks right now are enveloped in controversy. And we're going to get to the Department of Defense in just a moment that they all likely won't get through. The Republicans might need to make, assuming there's any sort of backbone there. We'll need to have a draw line and fight at least on one or two of them. And if Gates is the one, if he were to be defeated, the odds are that Donald Trump could put in someone just as conservative, just as loyal, but not as controversial. And that may be where we end up going.
- [38:47]
Jonathan Lemire
Yeah, Joe.
- [38:47]
Mika Brzezinski
Well, again, that's what advice and consent is all about. I mean, the fact is Donald Trump won the presidency. Donald Trump can put the people in that he thinks will help him out the most. And again, Susie Wiles as chief of staff had a lot of people on the Hill going, okay, not perfect that he's going to be the president, but this is somebody that ran an order, you know, brought order to the campaign structure at least, even if the campaign itself at times was far from orderly. And again, the same thing with Marco Rubio. A lot of people in Washington, D.C. again, had a lot of different policy issues and debates with Marco Rubio. But at the same time, that was this election. The people said, all right, well, he's going to be the president, that's his prerogative. Let's just face it. There are just three picks right now that I think Senate Republicans are going to have real trouble with. And of course, you know, we've talked about one. But also Tulsi Gabbard and also the selection for dod, which of course, again, people on the inside in the Trump transition team know that the DoD selection is going to be a rocky ride.
- [40:06]
Jonathan Lemire
Yeah, let's get to that. Former Fox News host Pete Hegseth's attorney confirmed to NBC News that Hegseth, President elect Trump's nominee for defense secretary, paid a woman an undisclosed amount after she accused him of sexual assault. The lawyer also denied the encounter between Hegseth and an unnamed woman which she alleges happened in 2017 was sexual assault. That statement comes after the Washington Post reported a friend of Heg set accuser sent a four page memo to the Trump transition team detailing the allegations. NBC News has not independently reviewed that memo, but Hegseth's attorney confirmed it is related to an encounter Hegseth and the unnamed woman had in Monterey, California, during a conference in 2017. The Post reported the memo said the woman was at the conference and she was there with her husband and her children and didn't remember anything until she was in Hegseth's hotel room and then stumbling to find her own hotel room on the night in question. Hegseth's attorney denied the allegation, saying this is a situation where a consensual encounter occurred and unfortunately the woman had to come up with a lie to explain explained why the woman had not come back to her husband's room that night, adding that it was fully investigated by police and video surveillance, as well as multiple eyewitness statements show that she was the aggressor. Authorities in Monterey investigated the allegation in 2017 and did not file charges against Hegseth. Joining us now, congressional investigations reporter for the Washington Post, Jackie Alemany. She's part of the reporting team out with a new piece entitled Trump Won. The celebration started and then the trouble began. Jackie, tell us more about what is happening in reaction to these nominations.
- [42:14]
I
Yeah, Mika, I would say that the reaction so far by some of the more professionalized staff around Donald Trump has not necessarily been positive, though those close to him don't really see him, at least in this moment right now, pulling back or withdrawing some of these more controversial nominees. Although it seems like you gleaned some new information from your conversation with Trump over the weekend. But I think what we're seeing here in terms of the broader trend is lessons that Trump learned in 2016 and things he's now trying to avoid repeating, such as picking appointments, people who are Trump loyalists and willing to execute some of these more expansive and unorthodox and controversial plans that he has for institutions that he's essentially trying to blow up. People like Gates, Hegseth and Gabbard, people who have not been well received by some of the people who are close to Trump who have advised him otherwise, but say that the decision making process has been pretty chaotic and dysfunctional. As one Trump advisor put to us, there really is no decision making process and that at the end of the day, Trump is sort of throwing out names and whichever one sort of sticks the most he lands on. Although another Trump advisor told us that if you had been paying any attention to him throughout the primary and throughout the campaign, these are names that he has consistently gravitated towards that Gates and Hegseth and Gabbard. They've always been in the mix. They've been people who have been really close to him, giving him advice, people that he trusts to actually execute his agenda. And that, yes, they seem like shocking picks. But to those who have actually been listening to Trump, people outside again of this professionalized staff of the transition team who have put together all of these lists and tried to vet people themselves might not be familiar with themselves.
- [44:05]
Pablo Torre
So, Jackie, good morning. The President Elect is like rolling through with remarkable speed, these nominations, but there are a few big posts still vacant and none bigger than the Secretary of the treasury, which is something that Trump cares deeply about. You've got reporting about some of the disputes behind the scenes, the role Elon Musk is trying to play. Give us the latest on this important post.
- [44:30]
I
Yeah, this has turned into a remarkable internal knife fight between some of the nominees and people under consideration right now by Trump with the two main contenders, Howard Lutnick, the head of Trump's transition, and the Ken or Fitzgerald executive and his allies sort of scraping with Scott Besant and some of his allies. Another hedge fund executive who has been under consideration and visited Mar A Lago on Friday for an interview with the president. Lutnik's allies have been claiming that Bessin is not pro tariff enough and doesn't take Trump's plans that he's laid out throughout the campaign seriously and is going to execute them and is more concerned sort of with the stability of the markets. While Lutnik has been presenting himself as a changemaker, Lutnik and Trump obviously have been spending lots of time together. Lundik has barely left his side throughout the transition process. But that approach has started to grate on some of his allies who think that he's been acting in sort of self serving ways, a distraction from his job at hand, which is to help with the transition process and some of these major appointments. Another wild card factor that we have to think about here is Elon Musk, the other person who has been by Trump's side nonstop, who took a pretty remarkable turn over the weekend and weighed in on the treasury appointment before Trump had really made his decision, which is sort of a little bit of a switch in the lack of deference, I think, that we've seen Musk play to Trump. We had A number of people, my colleague Jeff Stein and I call us over the weekend to sort of opine on the role that essentially this co president, as someone said to us, has taken when it comes to decision making processes, especially when it comes to something like the treasury, which is going to be extremely important, important component of Trump's administration and determine the economic path forward here.
- [46:29]
Mika Brzezinski
All right, the Washington Post, Jackie Alameini, thank you so much for reporting. Fascinating, especially on the treasury secretary pick and what's happening right there. Jonathan Lemire, you've covered Donald Trump. We've covered him through the years. You know, people keep talking about Elon Musk as a co president. I don't know that that's helping Elon Musk standing. And also I was very surprised that he tweeted out, basically weighing in publicly on X, who he supported for treasury secretary. And also on the issue of tariffs, which was sort of the centerpiece of Donald Trump's economic agenda on his economic campaign, basically agreeing that he thought tariffs were not good for economies worldwide. I don't know if that ends well for Elon Musk or anybody that's doing that publicly.
- [47:34]
Pablo Torre
There is only room for one star in Donald Trump's sky, and it has to be Donald Trump. We know this is a man who would fire advisors if they got on a magazine cover. He does not like sharing the spotlight with anyone. And he has in recent days. He's couched them as jokes, but he's flashed some irritation that Elon Musk is always around. He said that a couple of times now down at Mar a Lago won't leave. And I've talked to some people in the Trump war with the last couple of days say, yeah, that's real. Trump is certainly flattered that the world's richest man seems to like him so much. We know that Trump isn't impressed by wealth. He likes to hang out with people even richer than he. And Musk certainly qualifies for that. But at a certain point, Musk and one Trump advisor was telling me Musk didn't win a single vote. Donald Trump did. And Musk is going to have to restrain himself. This person said to me, if he wants to stay in Trump's orbit, otherwise, odds are there will be past his prologue, a rapid falling out in the weeks or months ahead.
- [48:33]
Mika Brzezinski
What do they say about visitors? Like after three days, they're like fish, they start to smell. I mean, he won't leave.
- [48:42]
Jonathan Lemire
Come on.
- [48:42]
I
He won't leave.
- [48:43]
Mika Brzezinski
I'm not saying that about. It's just an old saying that people say about visitors that come to your house. I would never say that because I love visitors. Well, no, I don't. Anyway. John Meacham, though, you don't have to be, you don't have to be a Pulitzer Prize winning historian to remember that, again, people stepping on the president and telling him who to select on Twitter may not be the best path forward. So you can speak to that or just speak generally about what you're looking at this week and, and what you're concerned about and what we should be looking at.
- [49:21]
John Meacham
I think the big question both this week and then one that's going to be incredibly important over the next 48 months is to what extent the Senate is going to stand as a guardrail and a defender of their constitutional prerogatives. Because when people talk about, oh, the institutions will stop the worst impulses of the once and future president, I think we should be more precise about that. It's not the institutions, it's the people who embody the institutions. Right. It's not the courts, it's judges, it's not the Senate, it's senators, you know. And so I think that the more we are in a moment, arguably as important as any in the history of the Republic, where the individual character of everyone in this whole arena matters enormously, the President's character and his impulses matter, the people around him and their impulses matter, the broad citizenry and our impulses of character matter, and the people who have electoral incentives, and that's United States senators, you know, if you want to know where somebody's going to stand at this point, show us their primary electorate, and I can probably give you a pretty good guess, Right. What are we going to do to preserve a constitutional order that has served us very, very well and that the incumbent, the incoming president, has shown a great deal of contempt for? And nothing. That's just where we are. And so no one's being Panglossian, no one's being Pollyannish, no one's saying, oh, Trump grew in the past couple of days. If anything, these appointments show that the worst impulses are very much at the surface and breaking through. And so our character is on trial.
- [51:36]
Mika Brzezinski
Yeah. And of course, Mika, that's what we said coming into this. We cannot be Panglossian. John, me giving me another reason to go to the dictionary afterwards to figure out exactly what he's saying. And John, let me say thank you in advance for not bringing up the French Indian war on this.
- [51:55]
Jonathan Lemire
Just about to put on my pant loss but anyhow. All right, John, thank you very much. Coming up, Pablo Torrey is here to recap the big moments from around the NFL yesterday, including the first loss of the season from the defending champs. Morning Joe is coming right back.
- [52:30]
Joe Scarborough
Hey, I'm journalist Sam Sanders.
- [52:32]
Pablo Torre
I'm Poet Said Jones.
- [52:34]
David Ignatius
And I'm Prayer.
- [52:34]
Mika Brzezinski
I'm producer Zach Stafford, and we are.
- [52:36]
David Ignatius
The hosts of a podcast called Vibe Check.
- [52:38]
Mika Brzezinski
On Vibe Check, we talk about everything.
- [52:41]
David Ignatius
News, culture and entertainment and how it all feels. That's right, we talk about any and.
- [52:46]
Mika Brzezinski
Everything on our show, from real life issues like grief to music and movie critiques. And that barely scratches the surface.
- [52:53]
Pablo Torre
Yes, indeed, and it doesn't stop there. We have got a lot to say, so join our group, chat, come to life, follow and listen to Vibe Check wherever you get your podcast.
- [53:08]
David Ignatius
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- [53:39]
Elon Musk
Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families.
- [53:47]
Mika Brzezinski
With Greenlight, you can set up chores.
- [53:49]
Elon Musk
Automate allowance and keep an eye on your kids spending with real time notifications. Kids learn to earn, save and spend wisely. And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place.
- [54:01]
Mika Brzezinski
Sign up for Greenlight today@greenlight. Really like this kid Brownlee, a rookie young man they took with the fifth round pick out of Louisville.
- [54:12]
David Ignatius
What a moment here, boy.
- [54:13]
Mika Brzezinski
They nearly get to Donald as he hits his man wide open.
- [54:16]
Pablo Torre
It's Edison. Edison. Touchdown.
- [54:20]
Mika Brzezinski
Second down and four. Blocked there by Zylstra. It's caught by Jamison Williams. There he goes. Foot race with Miller. Foot race with savage. Pat is 6. Put some speed on that one.
- [54:35]
Pablo Torre
And there goes Cooper.
- [54:36]
Mika Brzezinski
Cup to the house.
- [54:37]
Joe Scarborough
Tongue by low, looking to the far side. He throws off his back leg, middle of the field.
- [54:41]
Mika Brzezinski
John who Smith wide open. He's trying to sprint his way toward the goal line.
- [54:46]
Joe Scarborough
He's in.
- [54:47]
Mika Brzezinski
We are at our best when Taysom is involved in everything and that is what we have seen today. He picks up another first down.
- [54:55]
Pablo Torre
Still going.
- [54:57]
Mika Brzezinski
Tayson hit Hill with his third touchdown today. And he's blocked. Oh, my goodness. The packers block it and they're gonna win.
- [55:13]
Jackie Alemany
Fakes left, now taken off.
- [55:15]
Mika Brzezinski
Gonna run for it. He got it. And there he goes inside the 10 to 5. Oh, the play of the year in the NFL. Those were some of the biggest plays from across the NFL yesterday, including game ceiling touchdown run by Buffalo Bills quarterback Josh Allen and the Kansas City Chiefs on beaten streak. The Miami Dolphins 1972 record still holds. Bills win 30 to 21 of victory marks the Chiefs first loss since last Christmas. Let's bring in right now the host of Pablo Torre finds out on Metal Art Media, MSNBC contributor Pablo Tory. You know, Pablo, we always talk about the good, the bad, the ugly. Let's. We can talk very quickly about the bad. How bad are the Browns? The question answers itself. But I want to talk about three of the best games I've seen this year. Yeah, of course. The Bills and the Chiefs, the Steelers and the Ravens. And in a game that doesn't matter as much. But the. But the packers and the Bears, monsters of the midway. What a battle that was. Yeah.
- [56:21]
Joe Scarborough
I want to start with the Chiefs. Bills, Joe, because I do want to go a little Gerald Ford on you this morning, please. Our long national nightmare. Mika knows what I'm talking about. Our long national nightmare is over. Okay, I'm on a text chain with my buddy John Lemire over here. Of course, Patriots fan, he only wants his team to feel like a dynasty. And so when the Chiefs get away with this week after week after week, missed block, field goals, miraculous touchdown, you know, throws, all of that stuff, it looks like they're going to go and ruin. Yeah, the. The annual celebration that is Larry Zonka's champagne being popped. And the Bills come in. Okay. And Josh Allen looks like the mvp. He has the play of the year. He casually, with the game on the line, breaks about five or six tackles. He's six. Five, two, four. He just. Look at a man of this size moving at this level of speed. It's absurd. And the only thing that I have to warn everybody about is while this is the best rivalry in the NFL, Bill's Chiefs. Every postseason, the Chiefs tend to have their way. But for now, 9:1 in Kansas City, with all due respect to Claire McCaskill, 9:1 in Kansas City is an occasion to celebrate in Buffalo as we're watching right now. And that is news that I believe John could use.
- [57:36]
Pablo Torre
Yeah. My texts to you yesterday were gleeful. I would certainly. I don't dispute that, that they lost, but you're Right. That beating the Chiefs in January is a very different story. I give them credit for they find a way to win these games. But it does feel like with that loss yesterday, Bill's only now one game behind them for home field advantage as are the Pittsburgh Steelers. And it does feel like the AFC opened up a little bit yesterday, that it might not be the Kansas City coronation that it looked like.
- [58:01]
Joe Scarborough
Yeah, a yoga stretch level opening for the afc. So Mike Tomlin, just for people who are scoring at home, Mike Tomlin has not had a. My voice just cracked praising Mike Tomlin. I went through puberty talking about Mike Tomlin. Mike Tomlin by the way has been undefeated basically. Has been. He has not had a losing season for about as long as a teenager boys life. Actually just to complete the metaphor here, it's been 17 seasons that Mike Tomlin has not had a losing season in the NFL. And this game against the Ravens, they won without scoring a touchdown. This was six field goals plus some defense, some gum, some spit, some tape, some Russell Wilson. Remember Joe Russell Wilson? Justin Fields. Where are you going to start? The Steelers didn't seem to have an answer. You have two quarterbacks. You don't have one but you got Mike Tomlin and you beat the Ravens and this Steeler team, they can just win however you want them to. And so when you look at the AFC right now, the AFC north is a mess beneath them. But the Steelers, every year because of that coach, a future hall of Famer, they can do stuff like this. And it is so underrated, the consistency in a league that prizes itself on. On truly randomness and mediocrity. The ste. Steelers are neither of those things.
- [59:19]
Mika Brzezinski
Yeah, you know it really is. It is. The Steelers team is coming together as, as just, just an excellent top to bottom team. And you're right, there were a lot of questions about two quarterbacks but man, they are looking brilliant right now. We're using Justin Fields when needed and of course Russell Wilson when needed. We even saw that near the end of the game yesterday. So Mika will tell you if you ask. And now you're always asking Mika, what's Joe really like? What's Joe really like? She will tell you, I am the master of worthless trivia. It's about the only thing of the master. But I will say during the Bears packers game there was a number that flashed up yesterday that really surprised me and that was. I always thought George Hallis Bears had the most wins in NFL history. No, no, it's the Packers. And then number two, George Hallis's Bears. And so here are the two winningest teams of all time in the NFL just playing an extraordinary game yesterday. And what an ending.
- [60:23]
Joe Scarborough
Yeah, so George Hallis feels like a very long time ago if you're a Bears fan right now, because the last time. Here's my useless stat for you. The last time the Chicago Bears beat the Green Bay packers was in 2018. Mitch Trubisky was their quarterback. A lot was different. Right now it's the Caleb Williams show, as we saw. And in this game specifically, I want to just nod to this. Caleb Williams was not the problem. The drive he had at the end to get them within range. You know, every week, Joe, on national sports shows, the ritual has been to wonder why the Bears are there this bad. And the reality is they shouldn't be. But coaching tends to be the difference. And so when you talk about Matt Eber Fluss, which is a name that's a bit hard to say, but is a name that everybody now should be saying aloud. It's just decisions like this, right. You try to go for a field goal, you play conservative, you had a timeout, you didn't have to do this. They miss. And again, 2018 is the last time Bears fans felt like they could be, you know, just better than the Packers. And so I expect a coaching change at the end of the season. I expect this entire experiment to have to restart a bit because Caleb Williams deserves better, even as he's learning on the job.
- [61:36]
Mika Brzezinski
Yeah. And this is second week in a row that a game ended with a block field goal. Unbelievably dramatic. So again, speaking of worthless trivia, after I saw the Josh Allen run, I immediately text our producers and I said, I want you to find me the best quarterback run in NFL history. And I, I requested. I didn't know if they could get the tape. Roll the tape. Go to video. Let's look at the best quarterback run in history. Steve Young against the Vikings in 88.
- [62:11]
Joe Scarborough
Oh, yeah, Steve Young.
- [62:16]
John Meacham
Underrated.
- [62:16]
Joe Scarborough
An underrated. Of course, like kidding. Today should remember that this man was a dual threat quarterback at an age when that wasn't common. So Steve Young buried behind Joe Mont. I mean, do I have to explain Steve Young to people? I think, Joe, you, you might be offended if I were to even try to do this because he's so obvious, so large in our memories. But this is look before Michael Vick, who is my nominee for this category that you did not request. I do have have a vote. I thought when it came to showing great NFL highlights. But no, you went Steve Young unilaterally. Michael Vick would have been my. Would have been my nominee, but Steve Young was the guy that Michael Vick looked up to, you know, like, he just was ahead of his time. And this is.
- [63:02]
John Meacham
My God.
- [63:02]
Pablo Torre
Yeah.
- [63:03]
Joe Scarborough
If you're a Niner fan right now, wondering, is it really just going to be mediocrity right now? We're leading to the Seahawks this weekend.
- [63:09]
Mika Brzezinski
Oh, I know.
- [63:09]
Joe Scarborough
Queue up some Steve Young. Maybe feel a little bit younger.
- [63:12]
Mika Brzezinski
Go, go, go to YouTube and just put in Steve Young run and the rest. Which make. Which M does that all the time, so. All right, Pablo, thank you so much. Hope to see you in a couple of days.
- [63:25]
John Meacham
Yes, sir.
- [63:26]
David Ignatius
Between bad calls and intense rivalries, there's enough to stress about on game day. Keep your mind on the field and off your body odor with Dove Men plus Care Whole Body deodorant available at Walmart. Doveman Whole Body Dio provides all day order protection from your pits privates to feed. From pre game analysis to halftime insights to unexpected overtimes, Dovemen Whole body deal gives you confidence that lasts all day. Pick it up at your local Walmart.