Morning Joe 11/20/24

Summary

Morning Joe Podcast Summary – November 20, 2024

Hosted by Joe Scarborough, Mika Brzezinski, and Willie Geist on MSNBC, Morning Joe delves into the pressing political issues of the day with insightful analysis and vibrant discussions.

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1. Trump's Controversial Cabinet Nominations

Trump's Picked Nominees: President-elect Donald Trump has nominated a series of high-profile yet controversial figures for key cabinet positions, sparking intense debates among political analysts and lawmakers alike.

• Sean Duffy for Secretary of Transportation:

  • Joe Scarborough mocked the nomination, saying, “Sean Duffy sounds like every character in a Ben Affleck movie” [02:11].

• Dr. Mehmet Oz for Medicare and Medicaid Administrator:

  • Willie Geist voiced skepticism: “It's Dr. Mehmet Oz” [02:11].
  • Joe Scarborough criticized Oz’s qualifications, noting his previous support for Medicare for All despite the administrative nature of the role [14:35].

• Pete Hegseth for Department of Defense:

  • Concerns were raised regarding Hegseth’s past allegations. Pete Hegseth addressed these by stating, “There was an allegation of a sexual assault, no charges brought” [16:03].

• Matt Gaetz for Attorney General:

  • Joe Scarborough expressed deep reservations: “I would find it, all of it's deeply disturbing, these picks” [14:35].
  • Mike Barnicle pondered whether Republican senators would cross Trump on such a high-profile nomination, questioning, “Do Republican senators have the guts to cross Donald Trump?”

Senate Republicans' Reaction: The panel discussed the likelihood of Republican senators opposing Trump's nominees despite party loyalty, with John Heilman emphasizing the unprecedented nature: “There’s not a precedent for it” [32:53].

Key Points:

• Lack of Qualifications: Nominees like Gaetz and Oz are perceived as lacking the necessary experience for their appointed roles.
• Potential Senate Resistance: Despite party ties, there is growing apprehension within the GOP regarding these appointments.
• Impact on Federal Agencies: Concerns were voiced about replacing competency with loyalty, potentially undermining the effectiveness of federal institutions.

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2. Implications for the Federal Government

Undermining Institutional Integrity: The nominations are seen as part of a broader strategy to centralize authority and diminish the independent functioning of federal agencies.

• Joe Scarborough referenced Anne Applebaum’s Twilight of Democracy, stating, “If you want to disable agencies, replace competency with loyalty” [22:22].
• James Stavridis highlighted the ideological agenda: “There is a very clear ideological agenda here to demolish the effectiveness of government” [22:22].

Control over Justice Department: The discussion pointed out that while figureheads are appointed, actual operational control might lie with loyalists like Todd Blanch, the proposed Deputy Attorney General.

• Joe Scarborough remarked, “The number two person there will probably be a mouthpiece” [22:22].

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3. Media and Political Influence

Comcast’s Strategic Moves: The panel briefly touched upon Comcast’s plans to spin off its cable TV networks to adapt to the changing media landscape.

• Joe Scarborough explained, “The company will separate off entertainment and news channels” [36:18].
• Mike Barnicle compared it to Disney’s successful streaming ventures, suggesting it’s a strategic move to maintain profitability [38:53].

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4. Human Interest and Sports Segment

Dallas Cowboys' Struggles: Shifting away from politics, the discussion moved to sports, focusing on the Dallas Cowboys' poor season and recent setbacks.

• Joe Scarborough lamented, “The Cowboys are three and seven. They're not happy about it. They're horrid” [55:23].
• Willie Geist shared a unique story about an inmate’s unwavering support for the Cowboys, illustrating the deep cultural connection people have with the team even in dire circumstances [60:47].

Notable Quotes:

• Willie Geist: “It's a crazy story. Genuinely a crazy story.” [60:51]
• Joe Scarborough: “This is what we get in your podcast.” [60:51]

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5. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode culminated with reflections on the potential future of Trump’s administration, highlighting the challenges and resistance his controversial nominations might face within the GOP. The hosts expressed skepticism about the Senate’s willingness to oppose Trump, emphasizing the lack of historical precedent for such opposition.

Key Takeaways:

• Trump’s nominations could significantly impact the functionality and independence of key federal departments.
• There is an undercurrent of doubt within the GOP about supporting these high-profile yet controversial picks.
• The broader strategy appears aimed at consolidating power and diminishing legislative oversight, raising alarms about the future of democratic institutions.

Morning Joe continues to provide a platform for robust discussion and analysis, keeping listeners informed on the most critical political developments of the day.

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Notable Quotes:

• Joe Scarborough: “None of them would get close to getting Matt Gaetz.” [14:54]
• Mike Barnicle: “Even Tulsi Gabbard has been slammed again today.” [12:18]
• James Stavridis: “You have a dismantling of the federal government. You have a disabling of the federal government.” [22:22]

Timestamp Highlights:

• 00:00 – 00:56: Introduction and product advertisement segment.
• 02:11 – 03:13: Discussion on Trump’s nominations and their implications.
• 14:35 – 16:45: Deep dive into Senate Republicans' potential resistance.
• 22:22 – 32:53: Analysis of Trump's strategy to undermine federal agencies.
• 36:18 – 39:31: Brief on Comcast’s business moves.
• 55:23 – 66:17: Sports and human interest stories focusing on the Dallas Cowboys.

This summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the Morning Joe episode aired on November 20, 2024, providing a comprehensive overview for those who missed the live broadcast.

Transcript

[Joe Scarborough]

Next.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Hey, it smells so good in here.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yep, that'd be the coffee.

[Willie Geist]

I know.

[Mika Brzezinski]

It's just I've had nasal polyps for so long. Now I'm on this medicine and my congestion and breathing are much better.

[Joe Scarborough]

Dupixent Dupilumab is an add on prescription.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Maintenance treatment for uncontrolled chronic rhinosinusitis with.

[Ed Luce]

Nasal polyps in adults and children 12 years and up.

[Joe Scarborough]

It can help shrink your nasal polyps.

[Ed Luce]

So you can breathe better with less congestion.

[Mika Brzezinski]

I'm pretty jazzed about it. Plus, I don't want another surgery and now I might not need one. So what can I get you? Medium coffee, please.

[Joe Scarborough]

Severe allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth.

[Ed Luce]

Tongue or throat swelling, wheezing or trouble breathing.

[Joe Scarborough]

Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening, shortness of breath, tingling or numbness in limbs.

[Ed Luce]

Tell your doctor of new or worsening.

[Joe Scarborough]

Eye problems like eye pain or vision changes, joint aches and pain, or a.

[Ed Luce]

Parasitic infection or asthma.

[Joe Scarborough]

Don't change or stop steroid asthma or.

[Ed Luce]

Other treatments without talking to your doctor.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Do more with less nasal polyps. Ask your doctor about Dupixent.

[John Heilman]

Learn [e-mail] or call 1844 DUPIXENT.

[Willie Geist]

The kind of burgers you get today tells you a lot about yourself. You're either someone who settles for sad, same old, same old burgers or you're at a Carl's Jr obsessed with a.

[Joe Scarborough]

Tangy OG Western bacon cheeseburger demanding a.

[Willie Geist]

House made guacamole, loaded guac bacon fired up for the insanely hot El Diablo or craving a classic charmer old famous star. Give in to your flavor cravings.

[Joe Scarborough]

Do your mouth to Carl's junior Big burger, Good burger.

[Mike Barnicle]

Meanwhile, Trump also just nominated Fox News.

[Joe Scarborough]

Contributor Sean Duffy to serve as Secretary of Transportation. If you're Irish Catholic like me, you know at least 20 guys named Sean Duffy. Sean Duffy sounds like every character in a Ben Affleck movie. He hired the guy from Road Rules to be Secretary of Transportation because of course, he did. The road is right in there. And that's one of his least embarrassing picks. Maybe he'll pick one of the teen moms to be Secretary of Labor. This afternoon, he announced his latest choice for the administrator of Medicare and Medicaid.

[Willie Geist]

It's Dr. Mehmet Oz.

[Joe Scarborough]

Okay, so he's still. He's still just picking people he sees on tv. Next up, the head of Amtrak goes to Thomas the Tank Engine.

[Jonathan Lemire]

That was late Night comedians poking fun at Donald Trump's recent administration pics. In a moment, we're going to break down who he just tapped for administration roles in Medicare, education and commerce. And we'll discuss what top Senate Republicans are now saying about Matt Gaetz attorney general nomination as the House Ethics Committee is set to meet just hours from now. And why Republican Senator Chuck Grassley says more transparency is needed to move things much faster. Plus, Senate Democrats are making a last minute push to confirm dozens of President Biden's judicial nominees before Repub Republicans take control. We'll tell you what Trump is now demanding senators in his own party do. And they did the same thing.

[Joe Scarborough]

And we have breaking news here that we want to report to everybody around the globe that's watching. How many people watch us on Armed Forces Radio?

[Mike Barnicle]

Tens of millions.

[Joe Scarborough]

I think it's like 87.

[Mike Barnicle]

It's hard to measure with DVR and.

[Joe Scarborough]

Exactly. And all of a sudden YouTube. Yeah, YouTube and Snapchat or whatever it's called. Good morning. So here's the breaking news. Here's the breaking news. It says here, Willie, that John Heilman, for the first time.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Yeah.

[Joe Scarborough]

Since Chubby Checker was at number one with a twist.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Heilman's here.

[Joe Scarborough]

Got to Morning Joe on time at 6am what are you doing?

[John Heilman]

I want to say this is consistent with my past record, which is that usually if I'm here on time, it means I've been up all night. One of your favorite, you know, establishments on the other side of the river.

[Jonathan Lemire]

You know, when you walk in late.

[John Heilman]

I'm not late.

[Joe Scarborough]

Am I late? Yes.

[John Heilman]

But are you gonna scold me for being late when I'm here right now?

[Jonathan Lemire]

Taking an opportunity during a positive moment.

[John Heilman]

It'S a teachable moment.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Reinforce how important it is that you do what you did today. Unlike stumbling in 20 minutes late usually.

[John Heilman]

What if I stumble in 20 minutes early, like really stumbling.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Fine.

[Joe Scarborough]

Well, you know, we call that Mike Barnacle. Mike, where are you? I think we need to mic Mike up and put him over here. I want Mike at the table with Mike. We mic Mike up and get a chair in here, please. This is not. It's not a show without barnacle. Come on, Mike.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Supposed to be on today.

[Joe Scarborough]

What's up, Jesse? He just wandered in.

[John Heilman]

My main question about Barnacle always has been, how can someone. He's the master of the Irish. Goodbye.

[Joe Scarborough]

Right.

[John Heilman]

Just, you know, disappears early from everything.

[Joe Scarborough]

Always. You're like, where's Mike?

[John Heilman]

Ladies home in bed. But he also shows up like two hours early.

[Jonathan Lemire]

No I don't understand that.

[John Heilman]

That's a weird combo.

[Joe Scarborough]

It is a weird combo. Do you just wander in here? No, I've been here since 4. Well, come on in. We're going to get you a chair. Cuz you really disturbed Jack and me yesterday with your SODO prediction. If it doesn't come through like a chair, I got a lot of explaining to do. Soda's going to the Mets. Oh, you said he was going to the. See, we knew this.

[John Heilman]

Soto's going to the Mets.

[Joe Scarborough]

Is Soto really going to the Mets? Now can we get him a chair? Here comes a chair for Mike. Soto's going to the mess. Not yet.

[James Stavridis]

Yeah.

[Joe Scarborough]

No, no, we didn't go. No, no. So first of all, John, my excuse.

[John Heilman]

That I won't get to go now.

[Joe Scarborough]

So I called John last night.

[John Heilman]

Yeah.

[Joe Scarborough]

To talk about something very important. Frampton Comes Alive. Yeah. Some of the songs on there have aged extraordinarily well. Extraordinarily well. We decided last night. Right? Yeah.

[John Heilman]

Like the three that were big hits in the summer of 76. Yeah, those are all still great songs.

[Joe Scarborough]

That was a great summer.

[John Heilman]

But the rest of that album is really. Oh, no.

[Joe Scarborough]

All I want to be is by your side's a great one. Yeah, there's, there's, there's some really good solid stuff. But you said something about. And, and you said when you listen to the album, you can still smell the summer of 76.

[John Heilman]

Yeah, you can.

[Joe Scarborough]

I thought it brings.

[John Heilman]

He's a rider, 10 years old, doing bicentennial celebrations.

[Pete Hegseth]

Remember?

[John Heilman]

You're a little young for that one. You remember the bicentennial, 76th year of bicentennial celebrations still smell.

[Joe Scarborough]

You know what I mean?

[Willie Geist]

It brings.

[Joe Scarborough]

It brings back that Sneakers. No, man. He's maybe smoking like weed.

[John Heilman]

But he was two years old when I first. That's when I first encountered this.

[Joe Scarborough]

Do we have more guests?

[Jonathan Lemire]

We do have more guests. Also joining us this morning, along with Mike and John Helmon, who I just can't even believe he's here on time. U.S. national Editor at the Financial Times, the great Ed Luce.

[Joe Scarborough]

And by the way, speaking of the summer of 76, Ed Luce agreed with Queen Elizabeth that it was crude that Captain Tenille sang Muskrat Love when she was slow dancing with Gerald Ford. Isn't that right, Ed?

[James Stavridis]

Apparently. I'll search it. I'll search it.

[Joe Scarborough]

Like I said yesterday. I know. Useless, useless trivia. That's actually true. What happened though? So Captainil sang at the big bicentennial gala and they sang Muskrat Love, which was one of their hits. And afterwards the Queen let it know that she thought it was crude that they actually were singing about animals, you know, loving each other.

[Mike Barnicle]

Isn't that a weird booking for bicentennial? This is all like the Beatles or something.

[Joe Scarborough]

No, it was 76, love will keep Us Together, the biggest song of the year.

[Mike Barnicle]

They were okay.

[John Heilman]

It's hard to remember how for years it almost impossible to remember how big Kathy and Neil were.

[Mike Barnicle]

Okay.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah. All right. So listen, we do we are going to get get the news and this is all news. But I do want to say one thing that is really interesting. And Mike, I'll throw this to you what we're starting to see with these selections, right? You got Gates, no experience whatsoever, ill equipped managerially to run a massive, massive bureaucracy. You had Dr. Oz yesterday, a guy who really, actually supported Medicare for all before Kamala supported Medicare for all, but also ill equipped to run a massive bureaucracy. And you have all of these people. But we spoke yesterday, our show on background to some people in the Biden administration at justice who said Todd Blanch, who will be the number two there, he said he'll be running the agency. Gates should not get through. We're not saying that at all. But if you look at justice and I had some top Democratic lawyers over the last week saying Todd Blanch, he's the real deal. And so I'm just wondering if we're starting to see something here where get a TV guy up front, Trump's a TV guy. It's worked for him politically. And I'm wondering if you're like, okay, we're going to get all of these people out front who bloviate, who fight hard, who do all of this stuff and then at least it justice, they're very concerned about a lot of things coming down the pike. But they say Todd Blanchell would run this and whoever he picks to be the front person will probably be a mouthpiece. I'm not saying that's the case. I'm just saying at justice right now, they're very concerned about a lot of things, but they like that the number two person there who will be running things actually, and these are Biden people actually is a pro. So I think you're correct. I mean, Todd Blanche is a legitimate legal giant in his own right and running the Justice Department will probably be his chore given whoever is going to be attorney general. Right. The most important thing to a lot of people isn't justice, though. And it happened yesterday. It's the Department of Education, your children's high school and grammar school education being run by someone who's more familiar with wrestling, with professional wrestling than it is with actually what goes on in the classroom. People are concerned about what's being taught in the classrooms. Now that has occurred over the last couple of two or three years. You know, what are third, fourth and fifth graders being taught in their elementary schools? What's the curriculum? What's the high school curriculums? And look who is the secretary of education. And by the way, what about Dr. Phil? Is he going to get a spot? Well, and Willie and lemere reporting on this again, even though the Washington Post today, it's like Casey's countdown of the four most horrifying selections thus far and they actually rank them in order. And I think depending on where you are, you know, you could move that list around. But I will tell you, for a lot of Republicans that are in the Senate and the House and who care about American national security, if you ask them, they will say it's dod. If you talk to people again, really conservative Republicans in the House, really conservative Republicans in the Senate, they will say it's Tulsi Gabbard. They're horrified by Tulsi Gabbard. If you talk to a lot of other people, they will say it's Matt Gaetz. And John has some great reporting on that in a second about talking to Republic Republicans on the Hill yesterday. So it really is there are four picks right now. And of course, rfk, the New York Post keeps pounding RFK every day saying how nutty that selection is. So it kind of depends on where you are that will have you decide which one of those three or four are most deeply disturbing. We're going to talk to Ed in a second who says the whole thing is disturbing.

[Mike Barnicle]

Yeah, Tulsi Gabbard and Gaetz both slammed again today, interestingly by the New York Post, which seems to be this is a Murdoch led newspaper on a campaign against certain of these choices. But the question underlying all of this is do at the end of the day these Republicans in Congress, in the Senate, do they have the guts to cross Donald Trump? They can say they don't like the guy. They can go out and give press conference at Matt Gaetz. It's no good and he's unqualified and he's of low character. And the ethics report will show that if it does come out publicly. But will they at the of the day cross Donald Trump? I mean, you talk about the TV aspect, Dr. Oz. So he has put up. This is also a Senate confirmed position Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services Administrator in his statement, Donald Trump led by saying Dr. Oz has won nine Daytime Emmys, that he's a good face for public health. So that seems to be the primary qualification. The problem is this is a bureaucratic job. This is an administrative job. It doesn't even have that much to do with being a doctor in this case. It has to do with running these massive bureaucracy. So it is. John, central casting and getting back to your reporting about Matt Gaetz, the question remains. These senators have openly said they don't like him and don't think he should be Attorney General. At the end of the day, will they vote against Donald Trump?

[Joe Scarborough]

Right.

[Pete Hegseth]

First on the theme of tv, there's no doubt that's Pete Hegseth too. He's a friendly, he's a Fox News face and that's what Trump likes. And he, they, there is a, there is a growing belief in the Biden administration and elsewhere in Washington that it's gonna be those second and third in command who actually run things while they have the figurehead on television, you know, being the face of those departments. Yes, and Certainly the Lyndon McMahon pick flying under the radar because of the assortment of controversial selections here in power rankings of bad cabinet choices. But remember the Trump campaign promise, which he reiterated in his statement yesterday, is to eliminate the Department of Education entirely, which is obviously a significant thing, but yes to Matt Gaetz. I was talking to a number of Republicans on the Hill yesterday, senators and aides, and there is real, real doubt that Gates can get through. There's growing momentum here that this is the one pick that Republicans are gonna say no. In fact, I am told by sources that some of the senators are even telling Trump, look, don't make us vote on this one because we're gonna have to vote against you. Don't make us stand up against you. Cuz this one is simply not palatable.

[John Heilman]

We can't do it.

[Joe Scarborough]

And these are the people that actually he has spoken to.

[Pete Hegseth]

These are the people that he's.

[Joe Scarborough]

There's no way for in any other world, none of these four would get through. None of them. None of them would get close to getting through. And I'm talking about rfk, Tulsi, Gabbard, Hegseth, dod. I really need to learn to pronounce.

[Mike Barnicle]

Hegseth.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah, Hegseth, Hegse Smith, and then Matt Gaetz. In any other world, they would never get through. I will say we're talking a lot about Matt Gaetz because that's what the Republican senator is talking about mainly. But man, I would find it, all of it's deeply disturbing, these picks. But I cannot imagine four Republican senators turning over DNI to somebody who has apologized for Assad as regularly as she has and who's just continually parroted Kremlin talking points. I just, again, I just don't see four Republican senators doing that any more than I see them getting Matt Gaetz.

[Pete Hegseth]

Yeah, I mean there's definitely concerns there. They're a little flying under the radar because Gates is taking up so much of the conversation right now. And it does seem like Senate Republicans are willing to draw the line on Gaetz, but they have concerns about others too. And the Trump transition team is on the Hegseth pick reexamining things because of the sexual assault investigation of a few years ago. They do worry about that one.

[Joe Scarborough]

Can you help me on that for one second? And Mike, we'll get to just one second. I will say on background, in our conversation on background, there are a couple of things that surprised us. One of them was when his name came up. There was not a flinch but a noticeable. Whose name? We've got problems here.

[Mike Barnicle]

Hegseth.

[Joe Scarborough]

Hegseth. And those weren't the words. But I will just tell you that was the takeaway because obviously everybody knows Gates is a problem but I think there must be more there or I think they were just shocked. Maybe they were blindsided because there's been no vetting process for these four. There's been vetting processes for Rubio, of course. Susie.

[Jonathan Lemire]

I think he didn't know about that.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah, Susie Wilds was obviously everybody was a bit relieved to see Suzy Wilds in there, even Ratcliffe. But then. Yeah, so we haven't really talked about Hagseth much. I think there are real concerns and people report about this on the inside about that. So talk about that as well because there's a lot of things going Again, Gates is occupying center stage quite frankly because the charges and the Testimony from a 17 year old junior, she's older now but then is so damning that I think that's really taking all the heat right now. Yeah.

[Pete Hegseth]

And the hex I think briefly is some years ago an allegation of a sexual assault, no charges brought, but eventually they're reporting he did pay this woman afterwards as sort of a non disclosure agreement. But there is the Trump transition officials were surprised by that pick in part because to Joe's point there hasn't been vetting because and this is another storyline that's not Getting attention. They're not going through the typical FBI background check process. They're doing it on their own and they're missing things.

[Joe Scarborough]

What do you hear in talking to your sources in Washington at the edge of the intelligence community? Do you hear the same thing that a lot of other people are hearing, that the British, the French, the Israelis are coming in with hints that, you know, we're not going to share intelligence, our intelligence, with Tulsi Gabbard?

[Pete Hegseth]

Yes. Current and former intelligence officers have expressed that fear and have heard that from their colleagues overseas, saying there's going to be real reluctance to share some of their those nations top secrets in intel with the United States. First of all, there were already some concerns about Trump, who we know has revealed intel in inappropriate settings, including to Sergei Lavrov in the Oval Office. But Tulsi Gabbard in particular, someone who has voiced some talking points that emanated from Moscow, has cozied up with Syrians, that there's real concern here that the nation will be less safe because allies aren't going to trust us with their intel.

[Jonathan Lemire]

All right, let's get to Ed Luce's latest piece in the Financial Times. It's entitled Trump's Demolition of the US State. And you write in part, quote, it's time to study Caligula, that most notorious of Roman emperors, killed what was left of the Republic and centralized authority in himself. Donald Trump does not need to make his horse a senator. It will be enough to keep appointing charlatans to America's great offices of state. Rome was not destroyed by outsiders. It was demolition work. It was the work of barbarians from within. Pete Hegshaf, Trump's nominee to run America's sprawling military bureaucracy, was considered too much of a security risk in 2021 to protect Capitol Hill from protesters. Matt Gaetz, Trump's pick for U.S. attorney General, reportedly won the Mar a Lago beauty contest by declaring, yeah, I'll go over there and start cutting effing heads. Given Tulsi Gabor's close affinity to Vladimir Putin's Russia, she would be unlikely to get a low level security clearance in normal times. Now she will be custodian to America's most classified secrets. Rome was not built in a day, as the saying goes, but it squandered its spirit with remarkable speed. And I think what you're talking about also is democracy itself is imperfect and also fragile.

[James Stavridis]

Yes, extremely fragile. And the Republic, you know, is only as good as the people upholding it. And these, I think, are charlatans. You know whether, whether some of them, as you've just been discussing, like Matt Gates, would be just the shop window and others like Todd Blanche, would be actually running the department, I'm not sure. But you have got very deliberate choices. People like RFK Jr. Who will not get jobs anywhere else. Peter Hegseth, I guess, could continue as a Fox News anchor. Matt Gaetz is not going to get a job anywhere else. RFK Jr is not going to get a job anywhere else. You know, he's not going to get a job running a medical center on some university campus. These are people, therefore, who are chosen for their loyalty. They have nowhere else to go other than to demonstrate their loyalty to Trump. And so I think there is a larger pattern here. It's not just that you're getting charlatans being picked for these really important roles. It's that you have a dismantling of the federal government. You have a disabling of the federal government, which is a very explicit part of Elon, Elon Musk, I think being the de facto sort of vice president or co president in terms of a lot of these selections, has always had an explicit desire not just to cut spending or to get rid of regulatory agencies, which of course poses enormous conflicts of interest with his business, but to disable a vast institution, the federal government that he believes gets in the way of the heroic wealth makers such as him. So we do have larger method in the madness than just Trump choosing people who look good on tv. I think we have a very clear ideological agenda here to demolish the effectiveness of government.

[Joe Scarborough]

Well, of course. And again, all I was saying was what the Justice Department officials said on background in that one case. But there's a bigger thing going on here. And it lines up with what, what Donald Trump has said in the campaign, which is he was talking about bringing the FCC into the White House, talking about bringing all of these other places, even going back to the first term, their attitude on secretary of state was, you know what, they can go around, smile, shake people's hands, but we're going to be running it out of the Oval Office. So again, you can read, you know, Ann Applebaum's Twilight of Democracy three or four years ago. And what she said was, what you do is if you want to disable the state, the, quote, deep state, however you want to put it, what you do is you undermine agencies by replacing competency with loyalty. That's part one. But part two, there is a real belief that in Trump world that it's like Louis XIV who said, I Am the state. That is the attitude. Trump is the state. And so he wants to know why, if you look at these pics, why do I need competence? We're going to be running it all out of the Oval Office, which of course, for many, many Americans, 49.1 or 2% of Americans. That's deeply troubling.

[James Stavridis]

Yeah. I mean, I'm most concerned if we're talking in terms of Anne's brilliant focus on how liberal democracy becomes illiberal democracy, the sort of the Hungarian Viktor Orban model that is so beloved of many around Trump. I'm most concerned by Peter Hegseth Trump's real complaint about the Pentagon in 2020 was that it resisted Mark Esper, Mark Milley. They resisted the Insurrection Act. They resisted the politicization of the military. And Trump came out of that saying, I was betrayed by the milit did not swear an oath of loyalty to me. They kept saying their oath of loyalty was to the Constitution. Well, Pete Hegseth fully agrees with Trump. He thinks it's a woke DEI politically correct organization, the Pentagon, that needs to be cleaned out and that needs people. Three four star generals need to be vetted to check their loyalty to the commander in chief, not in the abstract to this one. And as you know, there are certain people like the FBI director who I think Chris Wray, who I think Trump probably does want to remove and God forbid, replaced with somebody like Kash Patel. But there are protections for a lot of these jobs. There are certain fixed contracts for generals. There aren't. You can get rid of them as commander in chief. You can get rid of them for whatever reason you like. And you can promote a corporal if you find that corporal more congenial. You can just have them leapfrog several levels and become generals based on their loyalty to you. And that's Pete Hegseth's role, I think. And that's the most worrying, therefore, to the future of the rule of law in this republic.

[Mike Barnicle]

It's interesting. The Wall Street Journal editorial page today says basically talking to Donald Trump says sometimes it's okay to withdraw and impose impulsive nomination a choice. And they're talking about Pete Hegseth asking what else is out there if he didn't tell you about this, what more is to come down the road? We'll see. Let's turn to NBC News correspondent Dasha Burns. Dasha, good morning. So we know that in addition to the phone calls that President elect Trump has been making to senators, that the incoming vice president, J.D. vance, will be on the Hill Today talking to his colleagues about these cabinet picks, trying to whip together some votes. What more do we know about that?

[Willie Geist]

Yeah.

[Mika Brzezinski]

So publicly, Willie, President Elect Trump doesn't show any sign of wavering with any of these controversial picks. If he has been putting pressure on senators, JD Vance will be on the Hill kind of trying to shepherd these folks along. A bit of a charm offensive, a bit of a pressure offensive. And with some of these picks, Willie, look at Linda McMahon, for example, the Department of Education, so, so critical. And it's a department that Trump has said he wants to dismantle. He can very quickly dismantle certain aspects of Biden's push here. For example, student loan debt cancellation, that can go away pretty instantly. Title IX protections for LGBTQ students, that can be nixed pretty quickly. And he's looking to implement universal school choice. And NBC News has been doing an analysis of much the picks that Trump has been looking at have been donating. Linda McMahon donated upwards of $20 million to his campaign this election cycle. We also have Chris Wright, who's at the Department of Energy, who's a big donor. Howard Lutnick, who just got Commerce, he's a huge donor. The folks that are being looked at for Treasury, Scott Besant and Mark Rowan, also major donors. And that pick we're still waiting on. There was a bit of, of an internal knife fight between Lutnick and Besant that kind of scrambled that decision. So we're still waiting to see what President Elect Trump does there. And then, of course, Elon Musk donated millions and millions of dollars and now has the president's ear. We've been reporting that there's some internal friction over that. One source telling me that Musk is acting as if he's, quote, co president and making sure everyone knows it. Another source telling me that he has an opinion on anything and everything and that he's starting to feel to the inner circle of Trump world that he's overstepping, that he's overstaying his welcome a little bit. And there's some speculation that that bromance might start to fade given how much Trump is used to sharing, is not used to sharing the spotlight. One source telling me that in Trump world, if you want sustainability, you gotta know when to make yourself scarce. And Musk hasn't quite figured that out yet, but he's certainly trying to have a lot of impact on these picks.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah, no, he has not made himself scarce.

[Mike Barnicle]

Now, that event the other night at Mar A Lago, Donald Trump said jokingly, half jokingly, I Can't get rid of this guy. Talking about Elon Musk. NBC News correspondent Dasha Burns. Dasha, great reporting as always. Thanks so much.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah. And you know, John Heilman, it is interesting following up on this Elon Musk. Musk point as far as don't make yourself too big. Right. If you want to stick around. It's very interesting that Elon Musk publicly on X, I think it was yesterday, publicly, was pressuring Donald Trump to pick Lutnick as Treasury Secretary along with the esteemed Cat Turd. And as goes Cat Turd on X, so goes middle America. But the pressuring, for those of you know, that's an account, I think it's an account on X. Right, yeah. And this account Canturn was actually weighing.

[John Heilman]

I'm concerned that you know that.

[Joe Scarborough]

But okay. Yes. So anyway, so anyway, he, Elon Musk pressured Donald Trump publicly. And you're just looking at that going, oh, and then that's not going well. And then what happened?

[John Heilman]

But they get it up in commerce.

[James Stavridis]

Yeah.

[John Heilman]

Look, Elon Musk has obviously a different status than anybody else who's ever been in this position with Trump before. Because unlike people like Steve Bannon or whoever, where Trump could legitimately look at them and say, without my coattails, without me, you wouldn't be where you are today. Elon Musk was the richest man in the world before Donald Trump came along. And Trump obviously respects that.

[Pete Hegseth]

Well.

[John Heilman]

So it's interesting to see how that will go. Shocking to see JD Bannon suddenly out of witness protection. Haven't heard anything about J.D. bannon since election night. Elon Musk has been the effect, the kind of de facto vice president. I just want to say this one thing though, but. Well, maybe two. One, the Justice Department is always basically run by the dag, by the Deputy Attorney General. And the Attorney General is not there to run the department. The attorney General is though there to make final decisions on who are we investigating, who are we prosecuting, who are we declining to prosecute. The big giant decisions about is this department about justice or is it about retribution? That's why we care about that. Because he's the person who would be charged by, who would be Trump's loyalist.

[Joe Scarborough]

Speaker as what Ed Lu said he's gonna be looking past whoever he puts there, Donald Trump. Cuz he's gonna be thinking, for sure I'm that person for sure. Whoever I put as a figurehead, it's just sort of follow through. Well, they run the number two. Like you said, the DAG runs it but and as you know though, the top person's not gonna be making the decision. Donald Trump thinks I'm gonna be making decisions.

[John Heilman]

Well, right. And this is kind of gets to the point which is that the Justice Department typically has been a quasi independent independent agency is not really supposed to. The Attorney General and the President are really supposed to be talking all the time. The number of meetings between Merrick Garland and Joe Biden the last four years would be zero. But here's the question though. The thing I want to say though, I really think that the one thing we're all talking about the Senate will the Senate. Will one of these people not get confirmed more than one of those bad of the biggest four of the four most controversial picks. I just got to say, does anybody on this table can maybe cite examples in the past during Trump's first term or any other time when Republican senators have defied Donald Trump? Is there an example anyone can cite where Republican senators on any basis have ever stood up to Donald Trump on anything he's really wanted? I don't think Trump is gonna back down on any of these nominations. I think what Dasha reported is the tone, which is Trump thinks that to back down, to withdraw, to listen to the Wall Street Journal would just be weakness. He is, this is about trying to break the system. He is trying to make the Senate explicitly his rubber stamp going forward and demean and diminish the legislative branch. He wants to strip them of advice and consent. He wants them to be his Duma. And that is, I think he's gonna push it as hard and we'll see whether any senators. But there's stand up to him but there's no history of it.

[Jonathan Lemire]

It's a great point.

[John Heilman]

There's not a precedent for it.

[Jonathan Lemire]

I was gonna ask you to shut up, but actually that was a very good point.

[Joe Scarborough]

Thank you. Wow, she's so rude.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Button this up. The deputy attorney general pick is Donald Trump's personal attorney. So it's just, it's not so clear cut. It's a little concerning on a number of levels, but we shall see.

[John Heilman]

I'm not trying to say it's not concerned.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Still ahead on Morning Joe, Senate Democrat, don't think you did. Senate Democrats are looking to confirm more judicial nominees before Joe Biden leaves office. But Trump is telling his party to hold the line. We'll dig into that in the upper chamber. Plus we'll have the latest on the war in Ukraine as Kyiv launches American made missiles deep inside Russian territory. You're watching Morning Joe a lot more to cover. We're back in 90 seconds.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Every day, thousands of Comcast engineers and technologists put people at the heart of everything they create. Like Kunle, a Comcast engineer who began to approach work differently after becoming a father with two teenage boys at home, Kumle thinks about the generation that he is building technology for. This continues to inspire him and his team to build a fast and reliable in home wi fi solution for millions of families like his so everyone can work, learn and play together under one roof. Learn [e-mail] this podcast is supported by Planned Parenthood Federation of America. Planned Parenthood Federation of America exists so all people can get access to the sexual and reproductive care and education they need. Planned Parenthood organizations advocate for health equity and policies that allow people the freedom to control their own bodies, lives and futures. More than 2 million patients a year rely on Planned Parenthood Health center services like STI testing and treatment, birth control, gender affirming care, abortion, cancer screenings and more. Reproductive health care and rights are under attack from public officials who are out of step with the will of the vast majority of Americans. The constitutional right to abortion has been stolen and politicians in 47 states have introduced bills that would block block people from getting the sexual and reproductive care they need. Planned Parenthood knows that equitable access to health care, including safe, legal abortion, is a human right. Right now, Planned Parenthood needs your help to protect access to health care. Donate today by visiting plannedparenthood.org Protect Next hey, it smells so good in here.

[Ed Luce]

Yep, that'd be the coffee.

[Willie Geist]

I know.

[Mika Brzezinski]

It's just I've had nasal polyps for so long now I'm on this medicine and my congestion and breathing are much better.

[Joe Scarborough]

Dupixent Dupilumab is an add on prescription.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Maintenance treatment for uncontrolled chronic rhinosinusitis with.

[Ed Luce]

Nasal polyps in adults and children 12 years and up.

[Joe Scarborough]

It can help shrink your nasal polyps.

[Ed Luce]

So you can breathe better with less congestion.

[Mika Brzezinski]

I'm pretty jazzed about it. Plus, I don't want another surgery and now I might not need one. So what can I get you? Medium coffee, please.

[Joe Scarborough]

Severe allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue or throat swelling, wheezing or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, tingling or numbness in limbs.

[Ed Luce]

Tell your doctor of new or worsening eye problems like eye pain or vision.

[Joe Scarborough]

Changes, joint aches and pain, or a.

[Ed Luce]

Parasitic infection or asthma.

[Joe Scarborough]

Don't change or stop steroid asthma or.

[Ed Luce]

Other treatments without talking to your doctor.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Do more with less nasal polyps. Ask your doctor about DUPIXENT.

[Joe Scarborough]

Learn [e-mail] or call 1844 DUPIXENT.

[Jonathan Lemire]

All right. Time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. Comcast, which owns our parent company NBC Universal, plans to spin off its cable TV networks. That's according to the Wall Street Journal and people familiar with the situation. The company will separate off entertainment and news channels including ms.NBC, cnbc, usa, oxygen, e sci fi and the golf Channel. So it's been the new cable venture will reportedly have an ownership structure that mirrors Comcast. Comcast spokesperson declined to come.

[Joe Scarborough]

So, Willie, as you look at the screen right there, the big concern that stockholders right now on Wall street are wondering about before they decide what do with Comcast shares is whether Mika is going to have to give up her penthouse perch atop the Comcast.

[Mike Barnicle]

Since I never had it to the penthouse. When are we going to get invited to the penthouse?

[Joe Scarborough]

Never. They never. Let's up. I will say really quickly on this, you know, Drudge at the top said, oh, like news meltdown, all this other stuff. I mean, I could be completely wrong. We could all be fired a year from now or whenever this happens. You never know what's going to happen tomorrow. Yeah, but, but in this case, though, Willie, what they're doing is what other media firms are doing. You spin off the cable channels which seven years ago were making a ton of money. Now they've got to figure out how to make them profitable. Disney, which by the way, huge media news, Disney has figured out now how to make streaming profitable. Peacock had an extraordinary success as in the Olympics. So they're talking about spinning this off. Comcast still owns, I think Brian Roberts still owns a third of that. And because Comcast didn't jump into the bidding war like everybody else throwing stupid money at streaming services and then watch it flop, Comcast has a ton of cash. So now they spin this off and they're in a position to, what do you all say? To get a lot of chat, to get a lot of consolidate, but also to just ramp up. And so you get a lot of people, a lot of different channels together. And so whatever that entity is going to be, there'll probably be a lot of cable channels and they'll be in a much better position to scale. To scale it. I took one business class at university I didn't get.

[Jonathan Lemire]

I'm glad you gave us your analysis.

[Joe Scarborough]

The only thing that makes sense here is you spin it off and then you scale it up and then you figure out how to make it more profitable.

[Mike Barnicle]

Yeah, this is to keep these networks like this network healthy and to keep Comcast thriving the way it is. And this is just the way it's going. People are cutting the cord. Right. The cable subscribers are down across the board. This is something Bob Iger talked about last year, doing right with ABC and Disney and spinning off some of those networks. We'll see if he does that as well. But I think internally it's viewed as a good thing. It gets everyone in a healthy position to continue to thrive moving forward.

[Jonathan Lemire]

All right, let's move on. Newly released data is offering insight on the deadly cost of America's civil war. Based on recently revealed census records from the 19 from the 1880s, researchers have landed on a firmer estimate of the number of lives lost in the conflict. 698,000. The analysis suggests Confederate States suffered a death rate more than twice as high as the Union. Historians have long grappled with the true number of casualties. And Alec Baldwin's Western movie Rust will be revealed to the public today at an international film festival in Poland. It comes three years after the onset death of cinematographer Helena Hutchins. High demand for tickets to the premier caused the website to crash. Hutchins was killed when a prop gun handled by Baldwin was discharged during production.

[Joe Scarborough]

Jonathan Lemire, comment?

[Jonathan Lemire]

No, no.

[Joe Scarborough]

Okay.

[Jonathan Lemire]

No, no comment.

[Mike Barnicle]

Terrible tragedy.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Let's move on.

[Mike Barnicle]

I might have walked away from it.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Horrible.

[Mike Barnicle]

What's going on with it.

[Joe Scarborough]

Surprising movie went forward. I am really surpr. Surprised because it was. Yeah, just such a horrible tragedy.

[Jonathan Lemire]

I think her family's Ukrainian. It's interesting. We'll see.

[Mike Barnicle]

All right, let's turn now to Ukraine. Several developments out of that country this morning. Right now, the US Embassy in the capital of Kiev is shut down as it warns of a potentially significant aerial attack. In a post on social media, the State Department is warning American citizens be prepared to immediately shelter in the event an air alert is announced. This comes a day after Ukraine fired long range attack missiles into Russia for the first time. That's according to two U.S. officials who spoke to NBC News. Russia's Defense Ministry confirms five of six missiles were shot down over a region that borders northern Ukraine. The six was struck in midair and its fragments landed on a military facility causing a fire. Meanwhile, President Biden reportedly has authorized the provision of anti personnel landmines to Ukraine. That for the first time Changing his own policy. Joining us now, former supreme Allied Commander of NATO, retired four star Navy Admiral James Stavridis. He's Chief international analyst for NBC News. He authored a new piece for Bloomberg titled Ukraine and Russia Can Find Peace with the dmz. Admiral, great to have you with us at the table as always. We'll get to your piece in just a minute. But let's talk about those ATACMs that President Biden has now said Ukraine go ahead and use them. How does that change the dynamic in the war?

[Ed Luce]

Yeah, let's do it tactically, operationally, strategically. So tactical practically, this is going to have real impact immediately. I don't believe the Russian Ministry of Defense, I think those missiles probably had immediate tactical impact. They were used against ammunition sites and the staging areas, Willie, for the North Korean troops. Operationally, this is going to force Putin to kind of spread his forces a little more thinly to worry more about his logistics hub and to prepare to conduct air defense, something he hasn't had to do in significant ways. That's a cost on his military. And then strategically, what I think the Biden team is about, and it's a smart play, is to give Volodymyr Zelensky as many chips for the bargaining table as he can possibly have. He's holding a chunk of Russia around. Kurt, here's another bargaining chip. ATACMS missile. So I think there are implications in all domains.

[Mike Barnicle]

This war just crossed the thousand day mark and there are a lot of people who say it would have been nice for Ukraine to have had these ATACMs a year ago, a year and a half ago. What do you think?

[Ed Luce]

I'd substitute for the word ATACMS. F16s would have been great to have those year ago. A1 tanks substitute would have been great to have those two years ago. We've been always slightly behind. I understand the theory that you don't want to provoke a nuclear armed power. Willie. Got it. On the other hand, we've seen again and again Putin has failed to respond to his own so called red lines.

[Pete Hegseth]

So let's take a bigger picture here. This is this White House trying to rush as much help as it can to Ukraine because the clock ticking, they know when Donald Trump takes office on January 20, US policy towards Kiev likely going to change dramatically. So we talked about the atacms, the landmines. A controversial choice. To be sure. What else can be done realistically can be done between now and January 20th.

[Ed Luce]

I think at this point the short answer is so often plan B is to Work harder on Plan A. And what I mean by that is in the remaining 60 days or so, put all your force behind the logistics. Get as much of this kit to the battlefield. Get as much support to the commander of U.S. european Command, my successor, also supreme allied commander, General Chris Cavoli. Load him up. He'll get it moving. Get as much of it in train as you can and see where the Trump administration actually lands.

[Joe Scarborough]

You know, Admiral, we are clearly in a transition period here in between administrations. Everything you've been talking about and responding to the questions here this morning has to do with the Defense Department. The reach, the power, the immense impact of the Defense Department, both on the United States reputation around the globe and on a daily basis around the globe. What's your view of the furor that has erupted over the potential successor as secretary of Defense?

[Ed Luce]

Let me make an initial point, Mike, which is all around the world, forward deployed soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines, coast guardsmen. This is all white noise to them, to be honest. They are focused on their operational tasks. So we were joking before the call, you asked me what would it be like to be out on an aircraft carrier right now in command. It would be wonderful because no one out there, believe me, is following all this. Having said that, the Department of Defense needs experience at its helm. And so anytime you are putting a candidate forward who doesn't have the requisite experience, you are going to end up in a place where the department will move less with less alacrity, it will move with less spirit. Therefore, in the end, even though those operational forces are not following this, they are going to be impacted by it, whoever ends up leading that department.

[Joe Scarborough]

Ed Luce has a question for you. And Ed, really quickly, I'm curious, what is NATO's response? What is Britain's response to Joe Biden and the administration giving Ukraine more weapons and strike deeper into Russia?

[James Stavridis]

Well, Britain, countries like Britain and Poland have been pushing quite hard for the Americans to do that. Britain has its own storm shadow. It's an Anglo French artillery that also has a longer range. And those have been lifted, but it required American permission to do so. So this also affects those. I mean, I'm fascinated, Admiral, by the leverage this gives an incoming Donald Trump to persuade Putin to come to the negotiating table because right now he's showing no signs of interest, interest in bargaining with Zelensky because he thinks he's gaining more on the ground. And why give up? Why freeze? Does this make Putin think again? Is this, in effect, a gift from Biden to Trump to get these talks started after January 20th.

[Ed Luce]

You could look at it that way, Ed. I like to think it's a gift from Biden to Z. Zelensky, who is going to have to go to that negotiating table. You know, Mika, read that interesting piece about the massive casualties in the American Civil War. That's the other piece of the puzzle for Vladimir Putin. He's lost 200,000 killed in action, 400,000 who are grievously wounded, 600,000 who have left the country to avoid the draft. He is now approaching encouraging civil war like levels of casualties. It's a terrifying thing in my view, if you are a member of the Russian population. So I think between the bargaining chips, you're absolutely right. The chunk of territory that the Ukrainians hold of Russia, the new ATACMS, the F16s, which are starting to have real impact, those are operational military bargaining ships. On the other side of it is going to be casualties inflicted on Russia. Those two things I think might help get Putin to the bargaining table.

[Joe Scarborough]

Edward, I want to ask you really quickly about the cost of this war on Russia. We know on Ukraine, obviously, because we see it every day. But, you know, the Biden administration has been criticized by both sides, whether it's the isolationists on the right and the left or whether it's the people who basically want him to march, have Ukraine march into Moscow. He's always been hammered. He's second guessed. He's always had to worry. And as James Baker always said, president's first goal, avoiding nuclear war. And after that, then you figure everything else out. But I just want us to look. How will history 20, 30 years from now, now look at this war thus far and how much it has decimated the number two, and they are Russia, the number two military in the world. What is the generational impact of the casualties and the equipment they have lost over the past several years?

[Ed Luce]

It is massive and we are only seeing the edges of it right now. Now. And think about the 600,000 young Russian males who have left the country. Who are they? They're the ones with Internet savvy rubles in their pocket, contacts in the West. They've now seen the bright lights of Warsaw. They're not coming back. And that is a generational loss for the Russians.2.

[Joe Scarborough]

By the way, you just made Mika's brother smile talking about the bright lights of Warsaw.

[Jonathan Lemire]

No, it. Old Warsaw is beautiful.

[James Stavridis]

Oh, my gosh.

[Ed Luce]

Are you kidding? It's gorgeous.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Have you been to the Bristol?

[Joe Scarborough]

I haven't. Oh, my. Okay. We. We'll have stunning we'll have Fromer's. Yeah. Tour of old. Okay, here we go. Okay. We opened up Pandora's box.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Go ahead.

[Ed Luce]

And beautifully built after the tragedy of the Second World War. There's a message there. But here's the point I would make to Donald Trump about the money we could spend on Ukraine. We're talking $40 billion a year, which is about 5% of the U.S. defense budget. Our defense budget, 800 billion. 40 billion. About 5%. For that amount of money, we are breaking the phalanx of Russia's military. Those are the best dollars we have ever spent in defense. And point two, all that money, that 40 billion a year, that's not a check we're handing Zelinsky. All that money is paid to US Defense contractors, making our defense industrial base stronger. Russia gets weaker, to Joe's point. Final thought. The Russians today are spending 35% of their GDP on defense. That is not a prescription for long term growth.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah, Willie, this is a generation impact on Russia. And yes, it's actually, it's helped US Businesses.

[Ed Luce]

Yes, it is in one word for President Trump, it's leverage. This is terrific leverage. You put a small amount of money in and you get massive effect. This is a good deal for the United States.

[Mike Barnicle]

So speaking of the President elect, Admiral, he said on the campaign trail, I'll have a peace deal done between Russia and Ukraine. It'll take me one day when I become president. You're writing today in Bloomberg about the possibility of that kind of deal, what it might look like. And you say there ought to be some kind of a dmz, like there is between north and South Korea. What would that deal look like for both sides?

[Ed Luce]

It would look a lot like the end of the Korean War, Willie, which is to say a demilitarized zone, DMZ, probably 5 to 10 miles wide. It would probably be right along the border that you see now between Russian forces, Ukrainian forces. And that's a tragic tragedy. Right? It's a tragedy that Ukraine would give up 20% of its country, but the other 80% sails on democratic, free. Eventually a path to NATO, say three to five years. Eventually a path to the EU. Not a terrible outcome. A good portion of making that work would be creation of this demilitarized zone, populated with on one side, Ukrainian troops, on the other, other Russian, like the Korean dmz. Or you could bring in a neutral force, a UN force. You could have NATO on one side, Russia on the other. I could think of a lot of things. All that to be determined at a negotiating table. But it's a key element that people.

[Mike Barnicle]

Aren'T talking about Ukraine, but let's also say, a long way from what Putin wanted when he set out on exactly.

[Ed Luce]

The point when Putin wakes up at 2:00 in the morning when he's honest with himself, he realizes to Joe's point, he has hurt his country deeply. The Rodina, the motherland. He has destroyed its prospects in a, in a smart world, Putin would have integrated with Europe. Instead, he's created this confrontation by invading a neighbor. It's a tragedy for Ukraine. It's also a tragedy for Russia.

[Jonathan Lemire]

All right, retired four star Navy Admiral James Stavridis, thank, thank you very much. His latest opinion piece is online now. It is worth a read. And Ed Loose, thank you as well as always.

[Joe Scarborough]

By the way, Ed Loose, at the bottom of all of his columns doesn't say I am the state. He says I am the ft. His.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Op ed for the FTSE Financial Times is also available online right now. Thank you, Ed. And coming up, Pablo Tory is here with a look at some of the greatest trends taking over the NFL. He'll explain next on Morning Joe.

[Mika Brzezinski]

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[Willie Geist]

Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds.

[Pete Hegseth]

Recently I asked Mint Mobile's legal team if big wireless companies are allowed to.

[Joe Scarborough]

Raise prices due to inflation. They said yes.

[Willie Geist]

And then when I asked if raising.

[Pete Hegseth]

Prices technically violates those onerous two year.

[Joe Scarborough]

Contracts, they said, what the are you.

[Pete Hegseth]

Talking about, you insane Hollywood.

[John Heilman]

So to recap, we're cutting the price.

[Ed Luce]

Of mint unlimited from $30 a month.

[Joe Scarborough]

To just $15 a month.

[Pete Hegseth]

Give it a try@mint mobile.com Switch $45.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Upfront payment equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only. Taxes and fees, extra speeds lower above 40 gigabytes. Details.

[Joe Scarborough]

You know, it's. It's been a bad season. Well, actually, a bad season doesn't quite explain music what it's been for the Dallas Cowboys. Yeah.

[Jonathan Lemire]

By the way, Junior.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah.

[Mike Barnicle]

There is a.

[Joe Scarborough]

That.

[Mike Barnicle]

It was a dream.

[Joe Scarborough]

That was such a cop out.

[Willie Geist]

If only it was a dream in Dallas. That's why I'm here on a Wednesday. Look at that segue back to me.

[Joe Scarborough]

Steve Jobs, black sweater.

[Willie Geist]

That's right.

[Pete Hegseth]

With a cop.

[Willie Geist]

A reality distortion field is what I bring. Much like it's reduced. Like Jobs.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah. Okay. Oh, my God.

[James Stavridis]

Okay.

[Joe Scarborough]

So anyway, the Cowboys are three and seven. They're not happy about it. They're horrid. Their latest embarrassment came a 34 to 10 home loss to the Houston Texans on Monday when a metal piece of their stadium roof fell onto the field. Luckily, no one was hurt. Other than. That's not good.

[Willie Geist]

Structural damage, various egos, just.

[Joe Scarborough]

Also, before that game, Dallas places franchise quarterback Dak Prescott on injured reserve, confirming that he's going to miss the rest of the season with a hamstring injury. This is the longest introduction ever. That likely means America's team will see their super bowl drought extend to 29 years. Jerry Jones was asked about the exact number of people who were killed in the Civil War. I am now going to read the report that places that. Okay, wait, it didn't go that long. Let's bring in now Pablo Torre. He's host of Pablo Torrey Finds out on Metal Arc Media. MSNBC contributor Pablo Torre. Willie, can you pick this up for me? Because I'm not a brat.

[Willie Geist]

I like it when Joe reads a story to me.

[Mike Barnicle]

It's too much reading. It's way too much.

[Joe Scarborough]

Why couldn't we just say he's got a great podcast?

[Willie Geist]

A podcast.

[Mike Barnicle]

You're talking about the kind of rebrand. Why are you talking about?

[Jonathan Lemire]

Why are you trying to show part of the podcast?

[Joe Scarborough]

No, no. Well, you got him here, Mika.

[Willie Geist]

I like where your head's at.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Yeah.

[Willie Geist]

You can go and subscribe Soundbite.

[Jonathan Lemire]

And then we'll go to you. What was this?

[Willie Geist]

But what I want to bring you is an individualized. Just a bespoke podcast, in a sense. So I've heard on a certain program this week that we live in a 50, 50 nation.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah.

[Willie Geist]

And the thing that crosses the gap, of course, is football. And the team that crosses the Gap more than any other that overlays both sides of the cultural divide happens to be the Dallas Cowboys. And so on my show, Pablo Torre finds out where I use journalism to go and solve my own personal curiosities and mysteries. What I realized was that the most extreme example of sports fandom can be found on an online database that the state of Texas operates, where you can see the last words of every inmate on death row. And so many of these inmates, it turns out they use their opportunity to say something at the end of their life on earth to say, how about them Cowboys?

[Joe Scarborough]

Wow.

[Willie Geist]

To shout out their sports teams. And it's remarkable. And so the question, of course, is like, why and how do they keep.

[Joe Scarborough]

Pablo Torre. Thank you so much for being with us.

[Willie Geist]

No, no, no, no, no, no. There's, there's, there's, there's some, there's some.

[Joe Scarborough]

What do you get?

[Willie Geist]

Some, dare I say, relatability, some light in this, as well as some macabre, you know, I bring, I bring some darkness in my, in my all black, all black box theater outfit.

[Jonathan Lemire]

I don't know what this is about.

[Joe Scarborough]

So listen, what are you getting to?

[Willie Geist]

What we did was we sent a correspondent to the Polinski unit in Livingston, Texas. It is death row, a supermax facility, and we found an inmate there named Charles Flores, who I will not belabor his case specifically. Just know the man, per my reporting, should not be there. He was convicted in large part due to a practice called forensic hypnosis, a real thing, which is discredited now, junk science by law in Texas. Also, he was an accomplice in a burglary where the killer in the burglary has already been set free. I say all this to say that this man has been in solitary confinement 23 hours a day for 25 years. And this is the biggest Cowboys fan I've ever encountered. And the question we had for him is, how do you watch football? America's pastime on death row. And there is a world that involves fantasy football in which they are running via fishing line. Draft picks, John. They have a two quarterback league on death row. There's a commissioner. They're gambling their rations. This is a place where, despite all of this seeming like the last place you would see a version of yourself.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah.

[Willie Geist]

You get a sense that these people are trying to recreate the national past time under the most dire conditions. And in some cases, it is shocking. Shocking how football is the one thing they find that connects them to the rest of the country.

[Jonathan Lemire]

That's fascinating.

[Willie Geist]

It's A crazy story. Genuinely a crazy story.

[Joe Scarborough]

This is what we get in your podcast.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Wait, I love it.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah.

[Joe Scarborough]

Mika loves it.

[Jonathan Lemire]

That is fascinating.

[Joe Scarborough]

His life then serving.

[Willie Geist]

Yes. He's awaiting. He is awaiting death row. Yes.

[Joe Scarborough]

Waiting for the ax to fall. He gives him great commonality with nearly nine out of 10 general managers in the National Football League.

[Willie Geist]

So it's funny you say that, because Charles Flores, right, you'd imagine that his perspective on all this has been of course, maybe brought back to the reality, the harsh reality of he is waiting for the day when this all happens to him. His execution date. And the guy, Joe, he has we even emailing with him still. He has so many complaints about Jerry Jones. He has so many complaints about CD Lamb. He is a fan for whom this membership. So the question of like, why would you shout out the Cowboys, right, The Cowboys at the end of your life, it's because this is an expression of a membership, a membership with the rest of the country that otherwise this, this particular super max prison has taken from. And I'm not saying that everybody needs to be sympathetic to every inmate on death row. Just know that there are people inside of there who should not be there, for whom football is their only connection. And they express that at the most high stakes moment.

[Mike Barnicle]

So your question about him, how does he follow it if he's locked up 23 hours a day? How does he follow close enough to have a fantasy team and know the.

[Willie Geist]

Ins and outs and the moves?

[Pete Hegseth]

Complain about CD Lam.

[Willie Geist]

That's right. So there is a television now that all of the can stare through the grate. And so actually the biggest game of the year because it's Texas, remember Livingston, Texas is Texans Cowboys. And so Charles Flores was watching the Dallas Cowboys on Monday night and being miserable. Miserable in ways that transcend the misery you would expect.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Yeah.

[Willie Geist]

And misery in ways that again, it's just the most American sensation of. What do you care about? You care about football to the very end.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Okay. Absolutely fascinating. I'm chastened for even laughing at the beginning. No, that was great.

[Willie Geist]

There's a lot there.

[Jonathan Lemire]

All right, wait, one more thing for you. This is so interesting. There's a growing trend among some athletes who are now celebrating with dance moves that are used by Donald Trump at his campaign rallies. The trend has taken hold, especially in the NFL, but in other sports as well. What did you find, Papa?

[Willie Geist]

Yes. So this is a bit of a viral trend. Basically all these athletes, to use the parlance of the platform Joe was talking about before, everyone's just basically retweeting the same meme at this point.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Yeah.

[Willie Geist]

And I just want to remind people that there are better celebrations than this. And this is not a political observation. I believe that when we are celebrating dances that take so little, we are basically indulging. I think it was the great athlete, Barack Obama, who said the soft bigotry of low expectations. There is an athlete in the NFL, Cameron Bynum, a Vikings defensive back who has Willie. You know this story.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah.

[Willie Geist]

He has been pulling off the greatest celebrations that I have ever seen. And so this is him doing, I think, Joe, your favorite athlete, Ray Gun, of course, the Olympian from Australia.

[Mike Barnicle]

Wait, you got to show the side.

[James Stavridis]

Yes.

[Willie Geist]

It's incredible.

[Joe Scarborough]

You are kidding.

[Willie Geist]

So imagine what it takes for a Joe. As you know, a defensive back is not guaranteed to touch a football every week. Cameron Bynum, every single game is prepared with an elaborate routine, a ridiculously elaborate routine that I interviewed him about. I went, Yeah, I went to Minnesota. I talked to him, sat down, had his life story told to me. It's incredible. Involves immigration, lots of real world pictures, but this is the one. The image that you should know is that this man did Ray Gun better than Ray Gun. And we need to talk more about this. Oh, my God. I'm like, okay, cool, whatever.

[Joe Scarborough]

Okay, so hold on one second. So we have a lot of people watching who, unlike my kids and everybody else's kids around here, don't know who Raygun is. Willie, can you give them a quick background? And Ray Gun, sadly has been driven from the sport of breakdancing.

[Mike Barnicle]

Yes. Self exile. So that's Ray Gun, Australian breaker. Breakdancing was in the Olympics this year for the first time in Paris. Went out and. And did. That speaks for itself. Scored a flat zero. The judges but in the process became the biggest viral star of the Olympics since has bowed out of breakdancing because of the mockery. But she did say she loved this shout out to Cam Bynum. He said he's a big fan of. He also he's getting a reputation. He did the parent trap dance.

[Willie Geist]

Yes.

[Mike Barnicle]

The hand shaking Lindsay Love NFL guy. He said that no one favorite movies.

[Willie Geist]

No one's doing it. Like the Usher glitch dance, which I am not going to pretend to even.

[Mike Barnicle]

That's how you do it right now. That was Cam Bynum.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Okay. You can hear these stories and more on Pablo's podcast. Pablo Torre finds out on Meadowlark Media. I'm gonna download it.

[Willie Geist]

Thank you, Mika.

[Jonathan Lemire]

And you have to come back more often.

[Willie Geist]

Anytime.

[Joe Scarborough]

What's today? Wednesday today is allegedly Wednesday.

[Mike Barnicle]

Say Friday.

[Joe Scarborough]

Come back Friday. Come back Friday. All right, Stay up. Stay off of Death Row. Come back Friday.

[Jonathan Lemire]

No. I loved that moving.

[Willie Geist]

More cowbell and more, more me dancing. I think.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah.

[Willie Geist]

In my ear they're saying more dancing.

[Jonathan Lemire]

I'm fascinated by the Death Row story.

[Willie Geist]

Oh, it's. No, thank you. It's, it's, there's, there's a lot there. Hope people listen to.

[Jonathan Lemire]

All right.

[Pete Hegseth]

Hey, this is Jeff Lewis from Radio Andy live and uncensored. Catch me talking with my friends about my latest obsessions, relationship issues and bodily ailments. With that kind of drama that seems.

[John Heilman]

To follow me, you never know what's going to happen.

[Mika Brzezinski]

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