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- [00:00]
Joe Scarborough
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- [00:14]
Willie Geist
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- [00:16]
Mika Brzezinski
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Willie Geist
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Mika Brzezinski
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Willie Geist
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Mika Brzezinski
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- [00:41]
Willie Geist
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- [00:44]
General Barry McCaffrey
You know, perhaps the most damning comment.
- [00:47]
Joe Scarborough
About Pete Hegseth came from Pete Hegseth.
- [00:50]
General Barry McCaffrey
Himself when he was explaining what the.
- [00:52]
Joe Scarborough
Military needs in its leadership. The DEI policies of today are not putting meritocracy first. Every single senior officer will be reviewed based on meritocracy. Getting anything that doesn't contribute to meritocracy out of how decisions are made inside the Pentagon. Ensuring readiness and meritocracy is front and center. Meritocracy. Meritocracy. Meritocracy.
- [01:18]
General Barry McCaffrey
Oh, I know what his next kid's gonna be named. You heard him though.
- [01:25]
Joe Scarborough
You heard him fol the military cannot function unless it's staffed by a system based on pure merit where only the.
- [01:31]
Willie Geist
Most qualified people rise to the top.
- [01:33]
General Barry McCaffrey
So says your next secretary of Defense.
- [01:36]
Willie Geist
Who will run the most complicated, powerful.
- [01:38]
General Barry McCaffrey
Deadly organization the world has ever known and whose only qualification is that Trump.
- [01:43]
Joe Scarborough
Liked watching him sit on a couch on Saturday mornings.
- [01:47]
Willie Geist
That is the Daily show reacting to Pete Hegseth's contentious confirmation hearing yesterday. We're going to go over the important exchanges as Democratic senators grilled Donald Trump's defense secretary pick over his character, views on women in combat and whether he is fit to actually lead the military. Plus, we're following more confirmations on Capitol Hill as some big name Republicans face more scrutiny from lawmakers. This morning. We're going to tell you who they are. Also ahead, President Biden is capping off a five decade career in politics as he is set to deliver his farewell address to the nation tonight, just days before Donald Trump is sworn in. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Wednesday, January 15th. Along with Joe, Willie and me, we have MSNBC contributor Mike Barnacle, the co host of our fourth hour, Jonathan Lemire. He's now a contributing writer at the Atlantic covering the White House and national politics. So a lot to get to this morning. Those hearings yesterday were quite something. Well, they really were at a different time. Things might go differently, but a different time.
- [02:59]
Joe Scarborough
And when we get to it, the Wall Street Journal editorial page basically said Pete Hegseth got a free pass. Democrats weren't able to make any positive advances forward. And meanwhile, the Republicans just again gave him a free pass and he got by with just general answers. They end by saying Mr. Exeth made noises about restoring the US military to. But it appears we're on track to have a secretary of defense whose real views are a mystery. Let's hope he rises to the occasion. We'll we'll see.
- [03:40]
Willie Geist
Yep. But we got to stop with our top story out west and the winds just making things worse and they keep coming, Willie.
- [03:49]
Steve Patterson
Yeah, they actually were a little bit better than forecast yesterday. But today is shaping up to be a really difficult day. The death toll from those wildfires now has climbed to 25. This comes as crews are dealing with strong Santa Ana winds that have ignited new for many of which are under control. The winds expected to last until tomorrow. As of now, the largest of the wildfires, the Palisades fires, 18% contained. The Eaton fire is at 35% containment. In all, the fires have swept through 40,000 acres, nearly the size now as Washington, D.C. joining us live from Altadena, California, is NBC's Steve Patterson. Steve, good morning. What's the latest there?
- [04:32]
General Barry McCaffrey
Willa, good morning to you. The devastation here is just endless. These are some of the same images that you've been seeing, of course, all week long. It's now been more than a week since these fires started. And now firefighters are worried about what the National Weather Service has warned us about, which is this particularly dangerous situation. That is the designation that they are now saying we are under. It's been about the last 48 hours or so. It's resulted in several spot fires, several brush fires, but as you mentioned, a little bit lesser than we expected so far. The winds, though, expected to pick up again in just a few hours. We are maybe within the last few hours of this designation, but they could be the worst hours that we've seen so far. The winds expected to be heavier again, the humidity very low. It's very dangerous fire weather, especially for firefighters who are doing their best to put out the fires that have already started that are still going. The Eaton fire, the Palisades fire, both still with containment left to go until they get those fires completely down it is not safe for most residents to come back here. So residents still heartbroken, obviously they want to see the results of the damage. They want to see what their home looks like. They want to start the process of insurance and everything that comes with it. It's a very long journey for thousands and thousands of people who are impacted by this fire. But the fires are not out yet. 35% containment where I'm standing at the Eaton fire. 18% containment at the Palisades fire. But with these wind events again expected to raise the danger over the next few hours, firefighters are doing all they can to make sure hot spots are suppress and looking out across the region because it covers such a large swath of Southern California for any possibility that a new fire may start, that embers from an old fire may cause a new fire, that the front of these fires doesn't shift to somewhere else as they put more containment down on these fires. Meanwhile, the insurance process of course starting for a lot of homeowners, a lot of homeowners trying to contact FEMA and get that process started. The emergency funds that are available for homeowners need to be available and readily sell. But meanwhile, the investigation has started as well. The ATF leading the Palisades investigation. There have been multiple lawsuits here at the Eaton fire, at the energy company SoCal Energy. But meanwhile, firefighters doing the best they can to first get this major operation, which is the firefight itself, under control. When that happens, then we can move on and start talking about everything else. Guys?
- [06:57]
Steve Patterson
Yeah. The firefighters doing heroic around the clock work. There is a new report just this morning from the LA Times though about a lack of preparation when we saw these winds kicking up and the fires beginning, that some engines could have been put place in Palisades, Pacific Palisades that were not. So there will be big questions, but for now we hope they can get those fires under control. Steve Patterson and Altadena. Steve, thanks so much. Let's go over to meteorologist Angie Lastman for a look at those winds today. Angie, what are you seeing?
- [07:25]
Mika Brzezinski
Hi there. Well, we're seeing just what Steve said, basically a fluctuation. So we've got these four main fires that we're watching. We are still dealing with that red flag warning, as Steve said, 10 million people right now though under that risk. It's stretches from San Luis Obispo all the way down to the border. Winds have as expected, ramped up over the past 24 hours. So 45 to 65 mile per hour gusts is what we're expecting. For the peak of today. But notice the areas that we're looking at, that particularly dangerous situation, wording that extra level of danger, because we do have those extremely critical fire conditions in these places. So parts of the San Gabriel Mountains, Simi Valley, San Fernando Valley, those are some of the spots stretching up into Ventura where we'll still see that high risk for these kind of large explosives fires to grow at a rapid pace. The current wind speeds right now 10, 15, 20 miles per hour for the most part. We've got a couple of spots, especially up in the higher elevations, that are gusting about 50 plus miles per hour. That's going to ramp up especially as we get past 4:00am Pacific Time. Notice as we head into the later morning hours, those peak gusts closer to 65 miles per hour. Humidity levels around 15 to 30%. So a slight uptick. We're going to see a better uptick here in the humidity levels as we move forward through the week. But for now, we kind of fluctuate between 10, 15, 10, 15% humidity level. So we don't have a whole lot of relief from that. But later in the afternoon, specifically into the evening hours, we will start to see relief when it comes to the wind. So 20, 30, 40 mile per hour gusts for the later parts of the afternoon. Overnight tonight, notice those peak wind gusts, they get down to 35 miles per hour. Willie, the good news is also closer to the coast, we'll see those 10, 15 miles per hour. So there will be some improvements, but we got to get through the morning first.
- [09:02]
Steve Patterson
All right, Angie, we'll be watching closely along with you. Angie Lastman, thanks so much. We appreciate it, guys.
- [09:08]
Willie Geist
All right. The confirmation process for president like Donald Trump's cabinet picks kicked off yesterday with the Senate Armed Services Committee holding a hearing for one of the most controversial choices, Defense secretary pick Pete Hegseth. Hegseth, a combat veteran and former Fox News host with little experience in leadership, pitched himself as the much needed change at the Pentagon and brushed off the numerous controversies surrounding him.
- [09:39]
Joe Scarborough
Now, it is true and has been acknowledged that I don't have a similar biography to defense secretaries of the last 30 years. But as President Trump also told me, we've repeatedly placed people atop the Pentagon with supposedly the right credentials, whether they are retired generals, academics or defense contractor executives. And where has it gotten us? He believes, and I humbly agree, that it's time to give someone with dust on his boots the helm a change agent. Someone with no vested interest in certain companies or specific programs or approved narratives. My Only special interest is the warfighter. You know, there's so much that was said yesterday, it would literally take us four hours just to get through the misinformation that was put out there. But there's just some things that we just have to stop before we even go any further and talk through the fact that when somebody asks the question, where has it gotten us? Anybody that knows anything about the United States military, anybody that knows anything about today's United States military and our armed forces and the men and women that serve proudly will tell you America's military is more powerful relative to the rest of the world than any time. Certainly in the last 25 years and perhaps since the post war world, the fearsome ability of the United States military to extend power across the globe unparalleled. And where has it gotten us? With a NATO that is stronger and more powerful than ever before, we have helped Ukraine wreck the second most powerful military in the world without losing a single American sailor or soldier or Marine or airman. And in Asia, China more hemmed in today than ever before because what we've done in Guam, what we've done in the Philippines, what we've done with Japan, Japan and South Korea becoming allies, what we've been doing with Australia, helping them build a nuclear navy. I could go on and on, but this idea, this idea, Republicans, that we need somebody with dust on their boots in this position and the suggestion that we haven't had people with dust on their boots in this position is either willfully lying, are willfully ignorant. We have had actually some of the most decorated, heroic, brave, battle tested men that have been holding the top positions over the past four to eight years in the military and yes, women as well that have been there. So the idea that this is some feel good exercise ignores the fact that whether from Mad Dog Mattis to General Milley, you have people that have been fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan were there at the worst times in Fallujah and it's just an insult, just an absolute. And again, there's so much to talk about here, but we've just got to go full stop because I'm sick and tired of people tearing down the men and women in uniform that are protecting us. And I'm sick and tired. You know, people want to lie about the economy. They can lie about the economy. Well, I don't take that as personally. I mean, because that's their own problem. Because they're going to be judged by how they do compared to the United States economy right now, which is the envy of the world. We have record low jobless rates. The stock market's at record highs. I mean, they'll have to deal with that. But this insult that somehow our military is weak and woke is just an outrageous lie and it's an insult to our men and women in uniform. I want to bring in right now General Barry McCaffrey. You talk about American heroes. He's had a little dust on his boots through the years. And sir, we thank you, we thank you for your service to this country. Thank you also for getting up very early this morning on the West Coast. I'm just, I want you to give me your general, general feelings about you saw yesterday. But first, let, let, let's blow apart this lie that our military is weak and woke and not the strongest in the world by far, first. Can we do that, sir?
- [14:58]
Jonathan Lemire
Boy, that was such a terrific opening statement on your part. You know, this magnificent armed forces active guard reserve, 2.1 million men and women in uniform, by the way, 1,000 some odd killed and wounded among women fighting in the war on terror. 60,000 some odd casualties in total. Enormously complex, globally deployed. The US Navy is fighting actively day in and day out, try and keep sea lanes open in the Middle East. It is astonishing the courage, the devotion to duty that we see among the active duty. And by the way, everybody goes back to Afghanistan. The disgrace of the withdrawal. Mr. Trump ran for presidency and said he was going to get us out of Afghanistan. He handed Biden, who ran for office to get out of Afghanistan, a situation with 2500 troops on the ground. We pulled out over 100,000 screaming civilians. In a miracle operation, it could have been, the French defeated Dien Bien Phu because we put seven elite battalions on the ground and intimidated the Taliban who had been 7,000 of whom had been released by Mr. Trump. So there's a lot of nonsense floating around. But look, the hearing yesterday, divisive, partisan, in some ways an unqualified candidate. He did remarkably well. He's articulate, he's smart, he's a decorated combat veteran, He's a Princeton grad. He's quick on his feet. He's going to get confirmed. Senator Jack Reed, my friend, said it all in his opening statement. Behavioral problems, alcohol abuse, lack of experience, his statements on the role of women in the armed forces. So we're in a, in a period though where we got to remind ourselves the real problem is Mr. Trump suggesting we might invade Greenland, we might seize the Panama Canal. We might use military power against drug cartels in Mexico. We might Coerce Canada into being the fifth state. This is comical stuff. That's going to be the challenge. Less so Mr. Hegseth.
- [17:29]
Willie Geist
Well, here are some of the key lines of questioning from of Hegseth From Democrats in yesterday's hearing. Take a listen.
- [17:38]
Joe Scarborough
I do not believe that you are qualified to meet the overwhelming demands of this job. We must acknowledge the concerning public reports against you, a variety of sources, including your own writings, implicate you with disregarding.
- [17:53]
Jonathan Lemire
The laws of war, financial mismanagement, racist and sexist remarks about men and women in uniform, alcohol abuse, sexual assault, sexual harassment and other troubling issues.
- [18:06]
Joe Scarborough
I have reviewed many of these allegations and find them extremely alarming. Indeed, the totality of your own writings and alleged conduct would disqualify any service member from holding any leadership position in the military, much less being confirmed as the Secretary of Defense.
- [18:25]
Jonathan Lemire
An event in North Carolina, drunk in front of three young female staff members after you had instituted a no alcohol policy and then reversed it. True or false? Anonymous smears December of 2014 at the CVA Christmas party at the Grand Hyatt at Washington D.C. you were noticeably intoxicated and had to be carried up to your room. Is that true or false? Anonymous smears Another time a CVA staffer stated that you passed out in the back of a party bus. Is that true or false?
- [18:58]
Joe Scarborough
Anonymous smears I'm going to leave with.
- [19:01]
Jonathan Lemire
Concerns about your transparency. You say you've had personal issues in your past. Yet when asked about those very issues, you blame an anonymous smear campaign even when many of these claims are not anonymous. Which is it? Have you overcome personal issues or are you the target of a smear campaign? It can't be both.
- [19:25]
Joe Scarborough
Senator, I sit here before you in open book as everyone who's watched this process with with multiple non disclosure and confidentiality agreements tying the hands of many people who would like to comment to us. Many of your work colleagues have said that you show up for work under the influence of alcohol or drunk. I know you've denied that, but you would agree with me, right? That if that was the case, that would be disqualifying for somebody to be Secretary of Defense. Senator, those are all anonymous false claims. And the totality, they're not. They're not anonymous. The letters on the record here, they're honest on the record people. We've seen records with names attached to freedom. One of your colleagues said that you got drunk at an event at a bar and chanted kill all Muslims. Another colleague not anonymous. We have this said that you took Coworkers to a strip club. You were drunk, you tried to dance with strippers, you had to be held off the stage, and one of your employees, in that event, filed a sexual harassment charge as a result of it. Now, I know you denied these things, but isn't that the kind of behavior that, if true, would be disqualifying for somebody to be Secretary of Defense? Senator, anonymous false charges. They're not anonymous. And I'll just conclude and say this to the chairman. You claim that this was all anonymous. We have seen records with names attached to all of these, including the name of your own mother. So don't make this into some anonymous press thing. We have seen multiple names of colleagues consistently throughout your career that have talked about your abusive actions.
- [20:59]
Steve Patterson
Senator Tim Kaine pressing there on Pete Hegseth. Despite everything we heard over those several hours yesterday following that hearing, Hegseth did pick up the support of Republican Senator Joni Ernst of Iowa, significant for a number of reasons, because she's a combat veteran, distinguished career in the military, also a survivor of sexual assault, who is seen as one of the most likely Republicans who could potentially vote against him. So Jonathan Lemire. Joni Ernst certainly gives cover to other Republicans. A military veteran, a survivor of sexual assault. Two of the big concerns put forward about Pete Hegseth, if she says I'm a yes, doesn't that give license to all the other Republicans?
- [21:40]
Ali Vitale
Yeah, it certainly seems that way. Ernst signaling that she will vote yes is a huge win for the Trump team in their effort to get Hegseth confirmed. Just backing up a step. You just ran through her resume.
- [21:51]
Joe Scarborough
Why?
- [21:51]
Ali Vitale
Right from the beginning, she was seen as a key swing vote here on Hegseth. And after Hegseth's pick was announced by the President elect, Joni Ernst, Senator Ernst was deeply skeptical. She made it clear in her public remarks and leaking through AIDS that she did not think that Hegseth would be qualified. She put up a lot of resistance to start. And then a pressure campaign begun. A pressure campaign by the Trump team by some outside groups seemed to have been effective and rattled her. And we saw after she met with Hegseth before the holidays, she came out more receptive. Still not committing, but more receptive. But I was told at the time, and we heard again over the holiday, that they believed they had moved her. And it seems like yesterday they did. I mean, she gave an interview after the hearing which she said she would support him. And now there were still a few votes here we're not sure about. I saw Senator Collins expressed some skepticism still yesterday. But Collins, Murkowski, even McConnell, that's not enough. That's only three. You need at least four. Now, that doesn't mean there won't be someone else who steps forward. But Ernst was seen as the most likely candidate for that. And if Joe, Mika, if she's the one who says, you know what, I'm going to do this, despite a pretty halting hearing yesterday from Hegseth, who missed some very basic answers, you know, and was wrong, as Joe pointed out earlier that of course, other defense secretaries have served in combat. But if Senator Ernst is going toif the pressure campaign got to her, if her fear of the MAGA base and Donald Trump coming into office got to her, that's a pretty good signal that most Republicans will fall in line. And those I talked to last night feel now feel very bullish about Hague Cischen. It's not done, but they feel good.
- [23:22]
Joe Scarborough
Well, I say not done. I would say not done also because, you know, Joni Ernst came out and she spoke her mind and was very concerned, obviously, about women in combat, something that she has fought for in her public life. Also very concerned about sexual harassment and sexual abuse inside the military. And she made no secret of the fact that she was concerned about Pete Hegseth. And then she had a couple of hours of people saying nasty things about her on X and asked somebody reportedly, how do I make this stop? People who get voting cards these days. It's crazy. It really is. But that doesn't mean it's over. I mean, we will see what happens with Lisa Murkowski, somebody who does not let an hour and a half of tough times on social media move her. We'll see what happens with Susan Collins. We'll see what happens with Mitch McConnell. We will see what happens to Dave McCormick. There's no reason to think that Dave McCormick would vote against Pete Hegseth. That said, he's not up for six more years. He went to West Point. If there's anybody who understands how woefully ill qualified Pete Hegseth is, even if you put all of these documented, again, again, not anonymous, documented character questions about the nominee that the Republicans are blocking from seeing the light of day. Even if you put that aside, people like Dave McCormick, people like Senator Young from Indiana, who's very serious thinker on defense policy, and also the new, the new senator from Utah who has expressed concerns about Hegseth and also Tulsi Gabbard. I'm not saying it's over. I understand. I understand the committee went in lockstep. And there's no reason to think that, that Republicans will act differently moving forward. But there still are 3, 4, 5 that, that we have questions about.
- [25:42]
Willie Geist
Well, you have me thinking about Dave McCormick, but really all the Republicans, General who are on this, it seems to me that what we saw yesterday was not a lot of accountability, not a lot of taking responsibility. A lot of information was held back for the public not to see, whether it be through NDAs or decisions not to share. But I'm just wondering, General, if the Republicans on the committee care about this pick and they're not thinking about Donald Trump's influence over them or what people are saying on X, but really is this person qualified to be Secretary of Defense? What should they be looking at in terms of what we saw yesterday?
- [26:28]
Jonathan Lemire
Well, look, the reality of it is in my view that he did a magnificent job. Terms of being evasive, smart, responsive. Only the Republicans. He went, we went into this committee hearing having refused to see any Democratic senators, which is I think the first time in probably 50 years that's happened. So this was a partisan attempt to get him through the ordeal of four hours and 15 minutes of a hearing. And to some extent, you know, Senator Jack Reid, Senator Kelly laid it all out there, an enduring concern about alcohol abuse. It's very difficult to walk away from alcohol abuse without therapy, without help. So that's, that's on the table. But you know, the fact he didn't know the countries of ASEAN. Come on, give me a break. There aren't 100 people outside the foreign policy process that know that Brunei is a member of asean. So I think he threw the wickets. We got to hope that he is able to surround himself with people that understand audits and defense acquisition and management of large organizations. Because I think he's going to be a Secretary of defense to some extent. It's going to be a popular nomination. He is a decorated combat veteran. He acquitted himself well as a soldier. He's obviously extremely capable as a communicator. So that's the situation rolling in. And by the way, there's some other picks. Tulsi Gabbard, Mr. Kennedy, who the, you know, the FBI director nomination that are truly frightening. So I think this issue is probably behind us.
- [28:27]
Joe Scarborough
Well, let's just, let's just say thank you so much retired four star Army General Barry McCaffrey. And let's take note as we say goodbye to you that you have a hell of a lot of dust on your boots and far more accumulated through the years serving this great country. Thank you Than than most that we saw yesterday. We thank you and again thank you for your service.
- [28:53]
Jonathan Lemire
Good to be with each other.
- [28:55]
Joe Scarborough
Mike Sometimes the stupidity is just too much to take from these hearings from political campaigns. We had a political campaign decided in part by a 30 second ad about it. A procedure that may, I don't know maybe he's done once, I'm not sure to prisoners we we have a hearing yesterday that talks about everything but what needs to be talked about. And the Wall Street Journal editorial page once again skeptical of Pete Hagsett. Just so anybody out there watching doesn't believe this is some left wing attack. There are a lot of us that want a tough military and a strong military and and want people in there that actually have dust on their boots, understand what it's like to serve in uniform and also have the experience and the qualifications to ably run probably the toughest bureaucracy in America to run. This is what the Wall Street Journal editorial page said. Hegseth gets a Senate pass Americans didn't learn much about Pentagon nominee Pete Hegseth at his Senate confirmation hearing on but they did learn more about the world's greatest non deliberative body and they talk about the failures that the Democrats and the Republicans make. This is what they say about the Republicans. Senator Mullen from Oklahoma noted that senators sometimes show up drunk at votes at night and cheat on their wives. But as the Wall Street Journal editorial page says, they aren't in the chain of command of US military forces. Senator Sheehy from Montana after opening his remarks asking how many genders there are, finally asked about Navy shipbuilding. Hegseth answer Donald Trump wants to build ships. No details. Senator Biden asked about what the US should do about its shortage of fighter aircrafts. Mr. Exit said he was going to look under the hood. He gave the same vague answer to Senator Deb Fischer when she inquired whether the nominee supports a nuclear armed sea launched cruise missile system to counter Russian Chinese nuclear capability. Said he was going to look under the hood. Mr. Exit, the wall Street Journal editorial page concludes made noises about restoring US military deterrence and that's something. But it appears we're on track to have a secretary of defense whose real views are a mystery. Let us hope as General McCaffrey says that he rises to the occasion. Mike. Mike Life's rich pageant as REM said. Or perhaps in this case if you look at how this the questions in this questions conducted yesterday, it sure made a mockery of this supposedly most deliberative body.
- [32:18]
Mike Barnacle
Well Joe, I would Submit that yesterday's hearing was one of the most depressing aspects of politics in Washington that I have witnessed in a long, long time. Sitting there, watching Pete Hegseth take questions from both sides, all I could think of was that most of the panel, both Republicans and Democrats, apparently have never seen the full FBI report. Only the chairs, the majority chair and the minority chair saw the whole report and shared, anecdotally, I guess, information from that report with others. I'm also thinking that the principal client of the FBI was the Trump Transition Committee, which is shocking because the principal client of the FBI ought to be and is the American taxpayers, you and me, all of us here. But no, not in this case. So this was further proof, at least to me, and I'm probably pretty much alone in this, that the process is broken. The committee process is broken. It's not working. You have Pete Hagseth. You know he will be probably the next Secretary of Defense. He wasn't asked about shipping lanes in the South China Sea and the dangers that lurk there. He wasn't asked about AI and its impact on weapons systems. He wasn't asked that for a reason. They probably knew, the Republicans as well as the Democrats, that he wouldn't know what he was talking about. And he didn't. But he was talking about his. His lust for better war fighters and greater lethality. We do pretty good in both departments. War fighting and lethal war fighting. We've done pretty good at that for quite some time. We have the greatest, strongest, most powerful, most feared armed forces in the history of the world. The history of the world.
- [34:19]
Joe Scarborough
History of the world. Not a close second, Mike. Not a close second. Go ahead.
- [34:25]
Mike Barnacle
It was just. It was depressing to watch. That's what the system has come to. Totally depressing.
- [34:31]
Joe Scarborough
Yeah. You kept talking. We kept talking about a warrior like warrior ethos. Warrior ethos, Joe. Ask the 500 Russians. Mike. That bum rushed US troops in Syria a few years back about that warrior ethos. Wait a second. You can't. We kill them in about 15 seconds. You don't screw with the United States armed forces. We are lethal. We are across the world. We are everywhere we need to be. And yokels like Tommy Tuberville somehow suggest that we are weak because somebody reads a poem over. Over the loudspeaker on a battleship. Like the idiocy coming from some of these people who. Who for some reason think there is political gain in tearing down the United States armed forces. It's just insanity. I'm proud of the armed forces and I know, as do our enemies across the world, that our military is stronger today relative to the rest of the world than ever before.
- [35:48]
Mike Barnacle
What about the history of the position? Secretary of Defense? George C. Marshall was Secretary of Defense. The Marshall Plan, the general who ushered.
- [35:59]
Joe Scarborough
Us through World War II.
- [36:00]
Mike Barnacle
Yeah, he and Dwight Eisenhower. What about Chuck Hagel, an enlisted man from Nebraska? He has dust on his boots. He was Secretary of Defense.
- [36:10]
Joe Scarborough
A lot of people had dust on their boots, Mike. And that was one of the things, it's one of the false choices that I found insulting because of the men and women who have sacrificed everything and risked their lives for this country, defending this country in warfare, that have served in that position. The suggestion that this has not happened before and that there's not a warrior class right now, whatever I will say, Mike talked about the chairman and the ranking member. They did a very good job in trying to stop all the nonsense and the interruptions that were going through there. And you can tell Roger Wicker and Jack Reed work together very well.
- [36:54]
Willie Geist
I just, I hope they really look at this candidate without thinking about anything else. Just look at this candidate and look at his qualifications and make a decision based on that. Coming up, President Biden is set to deliver his farewell address tonight. We'll take a look at his four years in office and the legacy he is leaving behind. Plus, we're learning more about who will be attending Donald Trump's inauguration next week. And the one prominent figure who will not be there will tell you who it is. You're watching Morning Joe. We're back in 90 seconds.
- [37:34]
Mika Brzezinski
This podcast is supported by Planned Parenthood Federation of America. Planned Parenthood Federation of America exists so all people can get access to the sexual and reproductive care and education they need. Planned Parenthood organizations advocate for health equity and policies that allow people the freedom to control their own bodies, lives and futures. More than 2 million patients a year rely on Planned Parenthood Health center services like STI testing and treatment, birth control, gender affirming care, abortion, cancer screenings and more. Reproductive health, health care and rights are under attack from public officials who are out of step with the will of the vast majority of Americans. The constitutional right to abortion has been stolen and politicians in 47 states have introduced bills that would block people from getting the sexual and reproductive care they need. Planned Parenthood knows that equitable access to healthcare, including safe, legal abortion, is a human right. Right now, Planned Parenthood needs your help to protect access to healthcare. Donate today by visiting plannedparenthood.org protect every day, thousands of Comcast engineers and technologists create connectivity solutions that change the way we work, live and play. Like Kunle, a Comcast engineer who is focused on revolutionizing the in home Wi fi experience today and for the next generation. Kunle builds powerful Xfinity WI fi devices that deliver a fast reliable connection with capacity to connect hundreds of high bandwidth devices at once and next level latency for the applications of the future like augmented and virtual reality and cloud gaming. Learn more@comcastcorporation.com wifi.
- [39:16]
Ali Vitale
Hey, this is Jeff Lewis from Radio Andy live and uncensored. Catch me talking with my friends about my latest obsessions, relationship issues and bodily ailments. With that kind of drama that seems to follow me, you never know what's going to happen.
- [39:28]
Mika Brzezinski
You can listen to Jeff Lewis live at home, home or anywhere you are. Download the SiriusXM app for over 425 channels of ad free music, sports, entertainment and more. Subscribe now and get 3 months free offer details apply.
- [39:53]
Steve Patterson
It's a beautiful live picture of Washington at 6:38 in the morning, where Senate confirmation hearings will continue today with six more of Donald Trump's Cabinet picks set to face lawmakers. Homeland Security Secretary nominee Kristi Noem was supposed to be among them, but the hearing for the South Dakota governor was pushed back to Friday morning because of a delay on her FBI background check. So today's high profile hearings include one for Senator Marco Rubio, who of course is the president elect's pick for secretary of state. He is expected to have a relatively smooth path to confirmation with bipartisan support. John Ratcliffe, though, Trump's selection for CIA director, and Pam Bondi, the nominee for attorney general, are likely to face much more scrutiny. For Democrats, let's bring in the host of Way Too Early, Ali Vitale. Ali, good morning. So what will you be watching today?
- [40:46]
Mika Brzezinski
Certainly the Pambandi hearing, Willie, is going to be instructive. A lot of questions for her around the idea of if people who have spoken out against the former president, now president elect, will be facing any kind of retribution. We've had a lot of conversations about if members of the January 6 select committee, someone like Senator Adam Schiff, should have preemptive pardons. That's something the Biden administration has actively had to grapple with on their way out the door, in large part because of the ways that the president elect has threatened and targeted some of those people. So that's going to likely be a key line of questioning from Bondi. But I actually think yesterday's Hegseth hearing was instructive for all of these confirmation battles going forward. That's not to say that I think every single one of Trump's picks is going to absolutely get through. I think there's really valid questions to be asked about Tulsi Gabbard and about RFK Jr. I think those people have whip count problems in terms of getting enough Republicans on board, let alone Democrats who are skeptical and in many cases rightly so. But I think the Hegseth hearing yesterday showed us exactly how tribal this Senate and this Washington is going to be. One of the key things was that Trump had way less naysayers in this group of congressional Republicans in both the House and the Senate. And now we're watching where the rubber meets the road on that. The fact that even his most controversial picks with really valid questions to be asked about them are on a likely glide path really shows how the litmus test of the confirmations writ large is playing out even before any votes are cast. And so I think that's one of the key things that you can take away from yesterday and then also apply to today on Friday, and then, of course, into next week as these hearings start to roll on.
- [42:29]
Ali Vitale
So, Ali, let's follow up a little bit more on what we saw yesterday in the hearing for secretary of Defense nominee Hegseth. We talked about Joni Ernst, who for a long time was viewed as a many perceived as a likely no vote. And she says, yes, she's in. Is your sense of it that will now indeed give cover to other Republicans who maybe were waffling on Hegseth? What's your sense of the whip count? How good are they feeling after the hearing?
- [42:52]
Mika Brzezinski
Yeah, look, I think the mood shift on Capitol Hill from when we left at the end of last year when it felt like the Hegseth nomination was in shame and all they needed to do was get him to drop out and mop the dust up off the floor. That mood has significantly changed even before Hegseth's hearing yesterday. But then watching the way that Joni Ernst immediately, the first thing she said when the hearing, when her line of questioning began in the hearing was entering into the record a letter from a fellow Iowan, which is always a tell for the Iowa senators of how they were praising Pete Hegseth and his work atop one of the veterans organizations that he was questioned about for his alleged mismanagement, that really set the tone. And so, yes, Joni Ernst likely means that he's getting out of committee with a favorable recommendation. I think there's still valid questions to ask about what happens when it gets to the floor. You're right, Lemire, to point out that you need to count to four. And at this point we can only count to four people who are openly skeptical. That's Collins, Murkowski, McConnell, and then the income, the new senator from Utah, John Curtis. That's still four. That I think. I think you could go either way. And I think there's valid questions that they can ask. I don't know that that hearing is changing any minds, but I do know that the vibe among Republicans, among Trump world is that Hegseth is in really good shape to be confirmed. And frankly, Democrats saw that too.
- [44:17]
Willie Geist
Yep. The host of Way Too Early, Ali Vitale. Thank you very much for coming on this morning. Coming up, Ukraine launches its largest attack yet against Russia. We'll have those details next on Morning Joe.
- [44:32]
Ali Vitale
Hey, this is Jeff Lewis from Radio Andy live and uncensored. Catch me talking with my friends about my latest obsessions, relationship issues and bodily ailments. With that kind of drama that seems to follow me, you never know what's going to happen.
- [44:44]
Mika Brzezinski
You can listen to Jeff Lewis live at home or anywhere you are downloading the SiriusXM app for over 425 channels of ad free music, sports, entertainment and more. Subscribe now and get 3 months free offer details apply.
- [45:03]
Joe Scarborough
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- [46:04]
Mika Brzezinski
Did you know adults with financial literacy skills have 82% more wealth than those who don't? From swimming lessons to piano classes. As parents, we invest in so many things to enrich our kids lives. But how much are we investing in their future financial success? With Greenlight, you can teach your kids essential skills like earning, saving and investing, giving them the tools for financial confidence. This investment costs less than an after school treat at Starbucks. Start prioritizing their financial education today with Greenlight. Invest in their future@greenlight.com podcast.
- [46:37]
Willie Geist
Seven past the hour. Time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. Ukraine has launched its largest attack yet against Russia, according to officials in Kyiv. Ukraine used drones and long range missiles provided by the US Government to strike several targets deep across the border, including ammunition depots, chemical plants and a storage base for oil. We'll follow that. Brazil is banning students from using cell phones in schools. The new rule was signed into law on Monday. The country's education ministry says the law is aimed at safeguarding the mental, physical and psychological health of children and adolescents. And flags at the US Capitol will fly at full staff during Donald Trump's inauguration next week. House Speaker Mike Johnson issued that order after the president elect complained about the flight flags being lowered. Johnson's decision overrides a White House proclamation to honor the life of the late President Jimmy Carter, who died last month. The flags will be lowered again to have staff the day after Trump is sworn in. And we're also learning who will and who will not be attending Trump's inauguration on Monday. Former President Bill Clinton and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will both be there, along with former President George W. Bush, former first lady Laura Bush and former President Barack Obama. Tech leaders Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg and Jeff Bezos are expected to attend and will be seated on the inaugural platform, positioned near cabinet officials and elected leaders. But notably missing from the list is former first lady Michelle Obama. So far, no reason was given for her absence. She did not attend last week's funeral service for former President Jimmy Carter as well. Meanwhile, President Biden will deliver a farewell address to the nation tonight from the Oval office, scheduled for 8pm Eastern. According to sources, Biden is expected to reflect on his decades of service to the country and will include a message to Americans about the country's future. As President Biden prepares to bid farewell to the White House, a new opinion piece in the Financial Times is describing his final curtain call as, quote, tragic. U.S. national editor for the Times, Ed Luce contends the 46th president will be, quote, remembered chiefly for easing Trump's return. And Ed joins us now with more on this.
- [49:21]
Joe Scarborough
Thank you so much. Some light reading from you this morning in the Financial Times. You say that Joe Biden defeated Donald Trump. Trump stood up to Russia, enacted more reforms than Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, and bequeaths a robust economy. That made Biden a hero to America's left and beyond. Yet most of his achievements will now be erased. His legacy is Trump's return after Biden the deluge. He largely has himself to blame. The Greek tragic heroes defect is hubris, but it is the flawed hero's nobility that gives Biden a Greek ending. Virtue and hubris. Hubris were both present in his personal tragedies. Explain, Ed.
- [50:09]
I
So, yeah, well, the Greek tragedy is of course, the hero brings his own downfall, is a flawed hero. And Biden was undoubtedly a very good predecessor president until he wasn't. And where I think he wasn't was in failing to step down. We had a number of journalists, but not enough. David Ignatius most prominently saying blowing the whistle on Biden's waning powers and on the fact that public opinion was indicating two years before the 2024 election that it was skeptical of whether he could serve another term. David Ignatius blew the whistle on that. Ezra Klein did. They were very much sort of censored and ostracized for saying what everybody in this town knew, which was that Biden was being shielded from unscripted encounters with the public, with the media, and was having a shorter and shorter day as president. In other words, that he wasn't fit to run again in 2024. And that didn't come through till the debate last June. It really left it too late for an open primary. It made it very difficult for Kamala Harris to launch a credible winning campaign against Donald Trump. And I think that therefore, history being brutal, is going to remember Biden not just as a bridge away from Trump in 2020, but as a bridge back to Trump in 2024. That's the tragedy of this. He was and has been been a very good president. But history will remember him chiefly for being the bridge back to Trump. And I take absolutely no pleasure in saying that.
- [51:56]
Joe Scarborough
Let me press you on a few things here, Ed. You said that David Ignatius said something that everybody in Washington knew. I must say there are many of us who know Joe Biden fairly well. I'm sitting next to one of them. I'm sure Mike Barnacle will have a question for you as well. Mike Barnacle. His chief complaints early on, quietly to me and others, was that they were not letting Joe Biden out enough. Mike talks to President Biden has regularly throughout the year. I spent, as I've said before, two and a Half, three hours with Joe Biden in the White House, all over the White House, talking at length, at length and in depth about foreign policy matters. And he was as sharp as anybody else I've spoken to and spoke actually like a man who's been doing this since he was 29 years old. And new world leaders, was he slower physically? Yes. Did he occasionally jumble a few words or a few names? Yes, but he corrected those as well. So after two, two and a half, three hours of it with him in the White House, going all over the White House, I did not see that. I spoke with French leaders after they had some pretty tough negotiations with him a couple of years ago ago. They left that meeting surprised how, how, how sharp he was and how they had listened to press reports saying that he had lost 1, 2, 3, 4 steps. They were surprised by the fact that actually he was pressing Macron on every single issue. I've spoken to leaders in the Middle East. I mean, I, I could go on and on about this. I heard also at the same time that he would be at fundraisers at night and he would be wandering in his statements, even reading from a teleprompter. I don't know that it's quite so easy that Everybody in Washington, D.C. thought the man was ill equipped to be President of the United States. I know that's. That's what they say on social media, but that certainly wasn't my experience. I would guess Mike Barnicle will tell you the same thing as well as, as well as Mika.
- [54:11]
I
Maybe, but, I mean, foreign leaders and foreign governments told me very different things to what you've just said. I think that people, you know, who are getting older and have waning energy and vitality can go in and out. They can have strong moments, they can have weak moments. I think, though, the key thing here was that the debate last June occurred several days after Biden had been traveling and wasn't considered to be shocking by a lot of the people I know, you know, in various circles around the White House, that that was the performance that reflected Biden's mental powers at the time. So I think the American public had it right.
- [54:56]
Joe Scarborough
I'm sorry, Wait, wait. I've got to interrupt you again and again, Ed. You and I are very good friends. I've got to stop you right there. I've had in depth conversations with people in the White House before, before, during, and after who were still trying to figure out what happened that night. Just over the past. You know, I think I said on the air, Jeff Zients said that he still will go out and his friends will be saying, why didn't you tell you think we knew that was going to happen? There's still people that are trying to figure out, and I said this to Susan Page a couple weeks ago, what exactly happened that night, because anybody that's telling you that that is a reflection of how Joe Biden was operating inside of the White House regularly. That's something radically different than people that worked closest with him and people that I know that were around him for large parts of the day were saying.
- [55:46]
I
Ed, ED Yeah, Joe, I'm not actually making stuff up here. I talk to people who know Biden as well, and I can assure you I had many conversations over the previous couple of years about his declining energy, his declining memory, his increasingly short dating scheduled to accommodate his declining memory and energy. So, you know, I'm not putting this out of thin air. We, as I mentioned, we're not saying that.
- [56:11]
Willie Geist
Ed, let me interrupt again. We're going to keep you here and continue this conversation after a quick break because I think one of the answers is that two things can be true at the same time. But let's take a quick break and we'll be back at the top of the hour live look at the White House. House. It is just about the top of the hour. We have a lot of news to get to, but we continue our conversation with that loose.
- [56:37]
Joe Scarborough
Right.
- [56:37]
Willie Geist
Natural time.
- [56:37]
Joe Scarborough
Exactly. And as Megan said, you know, two things can be true at once. I'm never in a million years would suggest you're making anything up. I'm saying in retrospect, things certainly look clearer on the other side of it for people that are talking to you when, I mean, I guess the question is why did, why didn't, why didn't they talk six months ago? Why didn't they talk a year ago? If that's how they, if that's what they saw, why didn't they say? Because if I had seen it, I would have said it. You're right, though. Couple of notables. David Ignatius did come out very early and say that Joe Biden should step down. He was one of the few. The Wall Street Journal had a story over the summer suggesting that that Joe Biden was washing was not strong mentally. Of course, the weakness of that article is they quoted Kevin McCarthy citing a meeting where he had walked out and told reporters that Joe Biden was the Albert Einstein of our time, basically, and he was looking forward to talking to Biden every day. Biden was running the show Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So again, it certainly, I guess my question is, if that is the case, why weren't people saying things are earlier?
- [57:48]
I
Well, I mean, I reread David's piece actually the other day. He made it very plain, I think set out the right argument September 23rd. And I don't think David was sort of uniquely accessed at that point. Certainly the conversations I have with people in our profession, but also people working in and around the White House, there were very similar conclusions being drawn. And that that was 15 months before the election. There was time then for Biden to cede the field and have a full open primary for the Democratic Party. I think in terms of your conversation last week with Susan Page, where the interview that President Biden, the exit interview he gave to USA Today, he said he thought he could have won anyway, I think, I think that's highly contestable. I think you see the difference between the numbers that Kamala Harris got. She came within a point and a half of Trump's number and the numbers that the polls were very consistently showing Biden at, which was far lower than that. I think that that's an understandable sense of sort of pride in the fact that he defeated Trump in 2020 and that he was, as I wish to emphasize, a very good president. He thought he could beat Trump in November. But I do think that's completely wrong. I think there is no basis for him to believe that.
- [59:21]
Willie Geist
And of course, the polls have always been so great.
- [59:23]
Joe Scarborough
Well, I would say that he saw what happened in the midterms and he thought he still had a shot. I'm sure that's what was happening. But I will say, Mike, even before the debate, we were commenting that Joe Biden was losing ground in Minnesota, in New Hampshire, in Virginia. The polls were going in a terrible direction for him even before that disaster of a debate. So the idea that he could have won, I know Mika believes he still could have won. The numbers certainly at the time did not suggest that.
- [59:57]
Mike Barnacle
No. When you know, you can't. I don't think you can talk President Biden out of his belief that he could have won. I mean, but that's the way he is. That's the business he's in. And Ed, I don't think anyone would quibble with what you wrote today in your assessment of the Biden presidency. But that's today. It's a snapshot. It's not history. Don't you think that history's view of Joe Biden is going to be a little bit different than your view of Joe Biden in today's piece that you've written in the sense that it's going to take into account Joe Biden's role in keeping NATO together, in keeping Ukraine alive in the day to day tug of war match that he's had with Bibi Netanyahu for a year and a half and most importantly, the economic underpinnings of legislation that he passed on a bipartisan basis in the first 18 months of his presidency that are going to transform many middle class cities and towns in this country over a longer period of time. Not today, not yet, but within two or three years. AI and all of the chip manufacturing that's going to happen in this country is going to transform and help a lot of American families.
- [61:02]
I
That's a very good question, Mike, and I hope that you're right. A lot, of course, depends on how much of this Trump tries to reverse and repeal and abolish in Congress. I think if you look at the Inflation Reduction act, there's tons of investment there that has gone to red districts. The investment that Republicans in those districts voted against at the time but claim credit for now and would be, I think, loath to see abolished because they've created jobs in their districts. I think the CHIPS act, which is trying to reassure semiconductor investment to America, might survive. And I think the infrastructure bill, although most of it hasn't really been implemented, might survive too. But on Ukraine, I'm a little bit less sanguine. I think Biden did an excellent job of supporting Zelensky, expanding NATO, restoring morale to the Western alliance. But if you ask anybody in Europe now now, or indeed in Washington, D.C. they think that era is over. The advantage is shifting to Putin and therefore those gains under Biden look like they might be very, very fragile right now if not headed for the ash heap. So a lot depends in answer to your question, Mike, on how much of it Trump reverses and indeed whether Trump himself itself is succeeded by a Trumpian in 2028 or whether the Democratic Party can rebound and become competitive again.
- [62:40]
Willie Geist
Yeah, we've got a Democrats need to figure that out in a big way. U.S. national Editor for the Financial Times, Ed Loose. Thank you.
- [62:47]
Joe Scarborough
Thank you, Ed.
- [62:48]
Willie Geist
We love you much. Thanks. All right, what's up, podcast listeners? It's Tanks, host of the It's Me Tanks podcast.
- [62:55]
Mika Brzezinski
Join me weekly on It's Me Tanks.
- [62:58]
Willie Geist
As I dive into topics like relationships.
- [63:00]
Mika Brzezinski
Why it's okay to feel lonely, fighting.
- [63:02]
Willie Geist
Summer comparison and pop culture's hottest takes.
- [63:05]
Mika Brzezinski
I don't shy away from getting candid about my personal experiences and I want to share all the advice I have learned with you.
- [63:12]
Willie Geist
I'm even joined by some of my friends like Claudia Ashre, Connor Wood and Amanda Hirsch each Friday for our new Office Hours episodes.
- [63:20]
Mika Brzezinski
You can listen to It's Me Tanks every Monday, Wednesday and Friday wherever you listen to podcasts, podcasts, and don't forget.
- [63:26]
Willie Geist
To follow the show so you don't miss an episode.