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- [00:01]
Mika Brzezinski
From hobby farmers to weekend gardeners and everyone in between, tractor supply trusts 5G solutions from T Mobile for business to make shopping more personal. Together we're connecting over 2,200 stores with.
- [00:13]
Joe Scarborough
5G business Internet and powering AI so team members can match shoppers with products faster.
- [00:18]
Willie Geist
You're all set.
- [00:20]
Joe Scarborough
This is enriching customer experience.
- [00:22]
Mika Brzezinski
This is Tractor Supply with T Mobile for business. Take your business further@tmobile.com now to realize the future America needs. We understand what's needed from us to face each threat head on. We've earned our place in the fight for our nation's future. We are marines. We were made for this.
- [00:52]
Willie Geist
Morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It's Tuesday, December 10th. We have a lot to get to this morning. Everybody have a seat. We're on, we're on. But you guys need to get in your seat seats. Willie, guys, Willie here.
- [01:04]
Eugene Robinson
Yes, here we go.
- [01:05]
Willie Geist
A lot to get to. Congratulations Jonathan. I'm happy for you. You'll sleep a little bit.
- [01:10]
Joe Scarborough
Thank you, thank you.
- [01:12]
Jonathan Lemire
I appreciate that. We're so thrilled for Allie to take over Wait Tilly. It has been such a, such a great team. It's been such great to host it. I'll still be here every morning 6am.
- [01:21]
Joe Scarborough
Of course I will.
- [01:22]
Jonathan Lemire
I'm so excited about my new, my new role here at Morning Joe.
- [01:25]
Joe Scarborough
Well you know you go back and I mean the history of way too early is extraordinary. You've been there, we've had so many other hosts there of course, Willie Geist there. And if you, if you walk down the holes you will see the long history going all the way back to Jack Benny was the first host of.
- [01:41]
Eugene Robinson
Wade don't realize that.
- [01:42]
Joe Scarborough
Yeah, people don't realize it. It was also launching pad for Jack Parr, you know.
- [01:47]
Eugene Robinson
Yeah, that was.
- [01:49]
Jonathan Lemire
Did Johnny spend time there?
- [01:50]
Eugene Robinson
He did, he moved away. Just a couple moonlit there. He was still here from the tonight show so they put him on the air.
- [01:56]
Joe Scarborough
You can't do that at 5:30 in the morning if you wake up.
- [02:00]
Jonathan Lemire
No, no.
- [02:01]
Eugene Robinson
Congrats man.
- [02:02]
Jonathan Lemire
Thank you.
- [02:02]
Eugene Robinson
Great run, great run and congrats to Allie who's going to be amazing.
- [02:06]
Jonathan Lemire
Continue to bring my reporting. You're excited about it.
- [02:08]
Willie Geist
Okay. Well I guess I got makeup on him. All right, we've got a lot to get to this morning. Our top story will be among many an arrest and the murder of United Healthcare CEO. It comes less than a week after he was gunned down in mid down Manhattan. We'll go through how the suspect Luigi Mangioni was caught. And what comes next in the case. Plus, some of Donald Trump's most controversial cabinet picks were on Capitol Hill yesterday, again meeting with Republican senators. We'll show you what lawmakers had to say about those meetings. And we'll bring you the very latest from Damascus following the historic transfer of power from Bashar al Assad to Syrian rebels. Along with Joe, Willie and me, we have the host of Way Too early. For now at least, Jonathan Lemire and Pulitzer Prize winning columnist and associate editor of the Washington Post, Eugene Robinson is with us. Or he will be here soon.
- [03:05]
Joe Scarborough
He will be here soon. And you know, Willie, in New York, at least two cases yesterday really catching the attention of people in New York. One, of course, the CEO killing. And also Danny Penny getting found not guilty on the subway case.
- [03:28]
Eugene Robinson
Yeah. The Daniel Penny case, which we'll talk more about in a minute, was an incident that happened several months back where a homeless man was behaving erratically on the train and Daniel Penny subdued him and held him in a chokehold so long that he killed the man. So this sparked debate about whether he should have held the chokehold that long, whether he was a hero, whether he was a villain and all that. But a jury yesterday on a reduced charge found him not guilty in that case.
- [03:53]
Joe Scarborough
And by the very thoughtful piece in the New York Times talking about how the times, the Post Covid times, shaped how people, not only the courtroom likely, but also people in the subway who were scared by what was going on down there really probably shaped not only the view of many New Yorkers here, but also ultimately the jury to find him not guilty.
- [04:17]
Jonathan Lemire
Yeah, there's no question the feel around the subway changed after the pandemic crime went up. I mean, stats show it's still relatively low, but it's higher than it used to be. But there was more of just a sense of, of menace or unease. And I think a lot of strap hangers who are on the subway a lot, myself included, would feel like, okay, this doesn't feel quite as safe as it used to. And I do think that factored into this decision and, you know, the video, of course, of this death starts, he's already been subdued. He's already in a chokehold. We as the public don't see everything that happened before then. Clearly the jurors thought that Penny was justified in doing what he did.
- [04:50]
Joe Scarborough
Well, you also see the video of the riders that were there with him afterwards talking about how they were scared, frightened and saw him as someone protecting. So again, that's a debate That'll go on. But let's get to the top story which just took shocking turns.
- [05:06]
Willie Geist
So many. We begin this morning with police arresting a man in connection with the murder of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson. 26 year old Luigi Mancioni was taken into custody yesterday morning, ending a five day manhunt. He was found at a McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania, after an employee called police about a suspicious person who matched the suspect's description. Police say Mangione had a gun and a silencer similar to one used in last week's shooting, as well as a fake driver's license. Police believe that ID was used to book a room at a hostel in New York City. Two law enforcement officials tell NBC News police found a three page handwritten document from Mangione that refers to the healthcare industry and quote, speaks to both his motivation and mindset. Mangione is currently being held in a state prison in Huntington, Pennsylvania, facing gun and forgery charges. He was denied bail during a preliminary arraignment yesterday. His preliminary hearing is scheduled for December 23rd. Online court documents show New York has also filed murder charges against Mengione. It's not known when he will be extradited to the state. The 26 year old suspect is from a prominent family in Maryland. He attended a top private high in Baltimore, where he became class valedictorian. In 2020, Mangione graduated from the University of Pennsylvania, earning both a bachelor's and a master's degree in engineering.
- [06:46]
Eugene Robinson
Let's bring in NBC News national law enforcement and intelligence correspondent Tom Winter. Tom, good morning. You and your colleague Jonathan Deenst broke this news yesterday that came like a thunderbolt on all our phones that there was somebody in Altoona, Pennsylvania. We couldn't quite figure out why. Altoona, Pennsylvania. So walk us through what you learned. Y and now what we know about a man who's been charged now with murder.
- [07:08]
Tom Winter
Right? So basically this happens only because an employee at McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania sees him and says, I recognize him from the news. Now, you remember what's interesting is at the hostel, the people that he roomed with said he would never take off his mask, but he would just to put in a bite of food. Obviously, he can't eat through the mask. And so here he is eating at a McDonald's. This individual spots him and then calls police. They show up in the details from the court documents filed in Pennsylvania, and that only pertains to the ghost gun. So he was gonna get charged in Pennsylvania regardless because he has the ghost Gun, and that's in violation of state firearms laws. But they ask him, have you been to New York recently? And he starts shaking. And that's when the police officers, including the one who arrested him, he's been on the job now only six months. That's the moment when they knew that they had him. Prior to that, they identification and it came back negative. So they just call that in over dispatch, they check it with the national database and they say, we don't have a driver's license under it, but that driver's license, the fact that he presented it at the hostel and then had it on his person, another huge clue. And I think that's the reason why the NYPD and us as reporters is we started to learn more about the types of things that were found on him. It wasn't just that I got a guy that kind of looks like the person we've been seeing in all these images over the last couple of weeks, and that there's a gun. As soon as we found out that he had the ID at that point, it appeared this was going to happen.
- [08:36]
Eugene Robinson
And it all does go back to that one image from the hostel where he took his mask down when he checked in and presented that fake news.
- [08:43]
Tom Winter
It's only a couple of seconds.
- [08:44]
Eugene Robinson
Yeah, it's a quick image.
- [08:45]
Tom Winter
It's just a few seconds that he takes a chance.
- [08:46]
Eugene Robinson
And from that being pushed out across the national media, an employee at McDonald's says, Wait, that face looks familiar. I better call 911. And they catch the guy. So do we get it all yet to motive? They found what's. I don't know if it's fair to call it a manifesto, but some complaints he had about the healthcare system. We know he'd recently had back surgery, been estranged from his family who had been in touch with it for a while. What more do we know about motive this morning?
- [09:10]
Tom Winter
Yeah, three plus pages of kind of handwritten notes. It's kind of a little bit all over the place. You know, I think when all the details of it come out, it's going to point to the fact that yes, he definitely had an animus towards the healthcare industry over some specific things. And in particular, perhaps this company, United Healthcare, or at least referenced it. And there are some specific things that he apparently says to law enforcement in there as far as what they will find and what they won't find. I think it could potentially be if there are other articles or other written items that he has, and there's some indications he might help law enforcement understand how he put this all together, the work that he did as far as his time in New York City, trying to determine where Brian Thompson, the CEO who was killed, who had his funeral yesterday, by the way, and leaves behind a wife and two kids, how he knew he was going to be where he was and the type of work that he did. I think that there might be some more details that will come out about that in the coming days. But, you know, putting it all together, the evidence against him is very damning, and that's why he's been charged with murder here in New York City. And so he's no longer a strong person of interest. He's the guy they're charged.
- [10:22]
Jonathan Lemire
So, Tom. So police sources for a while were almost impressed by how he had pulled this off here in New York. It was clearly meticulously planned. He knew where Thompson was gonna be. He had a getaway route with the bike. He paid cash at the hostel, he went through the park, he got out of town right away. But it seems like he got tripped up by some pretty basic mistakes here, Right? The same ID and also still having the weapon on him.
- [10:42]
Tom Winter
Yeah. So, you know, you could look at that a couple different ways. Maybe he didn't want to ditch the weapon because he was afraid that somebody was going to find it. It is a ghost gun, meaning that it was manufactured effectively at home or by a 3D printer. Whether or not he manufactured it, whether or not somebody else manufactured it, that's going to be a question. Somebody could face charges for that, of course, but having that ID on him certainly helped them out. But he had a manifesto, so at some point, he wanted to be caught. He wanted people to know why he was doing this. But the fact that he was able to evade detection for so long in New York City, and the fact that it's really just this one mistake that we're looking at on screen right now, this two to three seconds when he pulls that mask down. That's the reason why we're able to sit here today and say that there's been arrest. No doubt about it. I mean, Sunday night, when I talked to people from the nypd, we were at the stage where they said, if anybody has any information, no matter how small, whatever little detail, anything, you get to that point of the investigation, you're struggling to try to figure out where this person might be. And they were just trying to backtrack him the whole way.
- [11:46]
Joe Scarborough
Boy, how fascinating that we talk about cameras all over the place, all over the place, and it ends up actually being Eyes, eyes on him in Altoona, Pennsylvania, at a McDonald's. That actually brings this manhunt to an end.
- [12:00]
Willie Geist
We'll be following this. Also, a verdict has been reached in the case involving Marine Veter, Daniel Penney, and Jordan Neely, a homeless man that Penny, who Penny put into a chokehold on New York City subway that resulted in Neely's death. Penney has been acquitted of criminally negligent homicide. After Neely's final moments were captured on video by a bystander that set off weeks of protests and drew national attention. The decision came on the fifth day of deliberation, after the jury was deadlocked last week on manslaughter charges, which the judge later dismissed.
- [12:40]
Joe Scarborough
And Tom, a jury of his peers found him not guilty. A lot of people that are also screaming when a jury of peers found Donald Trump guilty, of course they were dismissed as hacks. Well, in the same Manhattan jury pool, a jury of Daniel Penney's peers found him not guilty. Talk about this case.
- [13:08]
Tom Winter
You know, one of the interesting things, you all were touching on it before, this idea of safety in the subway. So when you look at subway crimes, per ridership, the subway system is statistically very safe. When you. I've talked to transit chiefs. I've talked to people. When you look at the underlying information, yes, it is very safe. But when you look at. And you ride it, and I ride it every single day, most days, to and from work every day, the feeling that you get is a little bit different than what the statistics are. And so there have been numerous occasions, particularly post pandemic, as you all mentioned before, this idea of, do I feel safe versus am I safe? And we've all seen things on the subway that make us concerned. So I think when you put people into this mindset, and it was interesting to hear some of the testimony from, frankly, even some of the prosecution witnesses who talked about how scared they were. It ultimately comes down to, I think, two things. Just looking at the. Looking at the facts of the case and then thinking about this a little bit from a larger scale. When you look at what Daniel Penny did, this idea of holding onto the chokehold for too long, there'll be a lot of debate and a lot of discussion about that. Whether or not he should have let him go, whether or not he was fearful for his life. Certainly can't put myself inside of that subway car. But when you look at the overall case, what we're doing for people that are consistently arrested and consistently have mental.
- [14:41]
Joe Scarborough
Health issues, how many times has this guy been arrested.
- [14:43]
Tom Winter
It was, it was a significant, significant rap sheet. Significant rap sheet. And then you look at the mental health component and the fact that this is the ecosystem where some of these individuals live. When is enough, enough for society? I mean, I think that's the big question here and I think about it all the time. There was a proposal to be able to involun commit people for mental health not just for three days, five days, but for 30, 60, 90 days to give people some help so that they can break this. Or if you've been arrested, like how many times do you need. Not specific to this case, but we see cases all the time when we're talking about burglary, theft, things like that. 10, 20, 30, 40 arrests. When is enough to say, you know what, you need an extended period out of society. And so that's a big question. I think that is going to be coming up for voters here in New York State and perhaps in major cities around the country. What types of laws are we going to go to?
- [15:38]
Joe Scarborough
Gene Robinson so much of this, as I said, was framed around the environment in the subways post Covid. And a specific case, a 40 year old woman, professional woman, Michelle Goh, pushed in front of the r train on 42nd street back a year or so ago. And there's just been this focus of violence down in the subways. You talk to most of the people you see on police tape afterwards. Most of them said they felt unsafe and uncomfortable. Does remind us, doesn't it, of you and me? We're old enough to remember nobody else. Probably is. Bernie Goetz, when New York was really just an absolute mess, he actually became a villain to many, but a hero probably to more New Yorkers again because of the overall conditions that happened. So I'm curious about your take on the real tragedy here. The issues of course, that Tom brought up about just not a safety net for people with mental health problems and also a sense of insecurity for New Yorkers and people in Washington when they're on the subway or Metro.
- [16:55]
Ali Vitale
Well, look, I think mental health is the key issue here. We don't have any system and we don't have the institutions, we don't have the clinics, we don't have the housing. We don't have what we need to deal with chronically mentally ill people who are not, not so ill that they're judged a danger to themselves or others in a legalistic setting. And so we have to address that. We need to confront that as a society at some point. It's not fair to anybody. It's not fair to us. It's not fair to them. And so that's number one. And number two, there is no comparison between the Bernie Goetz days and today in terms of crime, in terms of what New York feels like and is like the sort of danger that you felt justifiably 20, 30 years ago as opposed to today, when New York is the safest big city in the country. Going away. But the New York subway. I'm not a New Yorker. I've ridden the subway on occasion. I usually get get lost. I take an express when I should have taken a local or vice versa.
- [18:27]
Joe Scarborough
That happens to us all.
- [18:28]
Ali Vitale
Yeah.
- [18:28]
Joe Scarborough
And I end up sloshing meadows when you were trying to get to Macy's.
- [18:34]
Ali Vitale
I've seen parts of Queens and the Bronx that I really never intended to see. But there is a feeling of kind of menace and danger still in the subway. And I think that's more related. It's less what the passengers are doing than the actual infrastructure of the New York subway. It was so early, and it's really a great system that gets you around, but it's just not as. It feels more dangerous going into the New York subway than it does to me at least going into underground transit systems that are newer in other cities. And of course, that's a mammoth Herculean task to modern recognize the New York subway. But it ain't the Tokyo subway.
- [19:30]
Joe Scarborough
It ain't Tokyo, Will.
- [19:32]
Eugene Robinson
That's what we always say, right?
- [19:34]
Joe Scarborough
This ain't Tokyo, baby. This ain't Tokyo. Yeah.
- [19:37]
Eugene Robinson
I will say, as someone who will be on the subway a few hours from now, I don't feel danger when I'm down there. Especially when you got big crowds down there. But I understand why some people might. But we've all had a moment, Tom, where you're down there. Somebody gets on the train and you go, what would I do in the situation that Daniel Penny found himself in now? I'll defer to the jury on this case. I didn't hear all the evidence. I haven't seen video, the witnesses and all that. Should he have held him for six minutes in the chokehold and kill him? That's a question that the jury answered yesterday. But you do have those moments where you go, okay, this person does seem to be erratic, perhaps could pose a danger. Do I step in if something happens? If he goes after that woman right there, do I step in? The answer, you tell yourself is yes, presents a weapon. You just don't know what happens in those circumstances.
- [20:23]
Tom Winter
And it happens so fast.
- [20:25]
Eugene Robinson
Exactly. That's the big thing.
- [20:26]
Tom Winter
It happens so fast. When that goes down.
- [20:28]
Eugene Robinson
One technical question before we let you go. So the jury was deadlocked on the manslaughter charge on Friday, so they moved the charge to criminally negligent homicide, on which he was found not guilty. What's the distinction between those two there? Yeah.
- [20:40]
Tom Winter
So, you know, the details of this are pretty complicated, but I think ultimately what the jury said is, and they have the option to do this is to say, okay, we're not gonna be there with respect to specific, specific intent. And so now we go whether or not he was negligent. In other words, this idea of, should he have let that chokehold go after a certain amount of time? But then this gets to all sorts of other permutations. Right. So if he lets him go out of the chokehold, does he get up and Jordan Neely, does he get up and does he start to go after Daniel Penney or somebody else in the subway car? There's all sorts of different permutations of this. At the end of the day, Jordan Neely, who lost his mother as a result of a homicide, to Joe's point, has 30, 30 plus, maybe even 40 plus arrests in New York City, a documented history of mental health. There is somebody who's dead as a result of all of this, whether or not it was for criminal reasons or not. As you just said, Willie, a jury decided on it, but I think it just kind of underscores the people that move through the cracks. And I think that's what everybody said when this case came up. And so, again, and the police department would sure love a solution for this, because they don't want to keep arresting and people go. And arresting and letting people go. So there's definitely a challenge for new guys.
- [22:01]
Joe Scarborough
I mean, Mika, the mental health system in this country, again, is just grossly insufficient. Whether you're talking about New York, whether you're talking about Florida, whether you're talking about California, you have people walking around on the streets that have mental health issues. And the fact that some progressives have said basically, oh, well, we're just, you know, let's pass law. Laws that allow homelessness. You look at San Francisco, you look at Los Angeles, as we've said all along, and Rev and I have said all along, there's nothing compassionate about that. No, there's nothing progressive about that. Leaving people with mental health problems on the street. No, we need to spend more money as a society taking care of those who have mental health challenges and not just say, yeah, you can live on the streets, bad things happen.
- [22:51]
Willie Geist
NBC's Tom Winter, thank you very much for, for your reporting and analysis this morning. We appreciate it. We're going to turn now to overseas to the major developments out of Syria where the outgoing prime minister of the Assad regime has agreed to turn over power to rebel forces. NBC News chief foreign correspondent Richard Engel has the latest from Damascus.
- [23:15]
Mika Brzezinski
In the main square in Damascus, thousands gathered to cheer the end of Syrian dictator Bashar al Assad. Entire families came to witness history in the making. Syrians will be coming from all over the country to gather here.
- [23:29]
Joe Scarborough
Hello.
- [23:29]
Mika Brzezinski
I'm from the United States.
- [23:31]
Joe Scarborough
Welcome.
- [23:31]
Mika Brzezinski
Thank you very much. NBC News, how are you feeling today?
- [23:38]
Joe Scarborough
Very happy.
- [23:38]
Mika Brzezinski
Very happy. Very, very happy. It seems to be the sentiment here. Everyone says very happy. Wow. So this is a symbol of everything that has transpired here over the last, really just two weeks. The rebel forces moved into Damascus, and the government and its armed forces simply melted away. We've seen uniforms on the ground. This tank was just abandoned. Now the tank is in the hands of the people it was used to repress. There is one word I'm hearing over and over again. It is Arabic and a lot of celebratory gunfire. The rebels were given a hero's welcome. Many are from an Islamist group called hts, considered a terrorist organization by the US and the United Nations. Their victory was swift after Assad's longtime backers, Russia, Iran, and Hezbollah did not or could not intervene. Everything will be excellent in our foreign and domestic relations. We don't want to be hostile to anyone, said one fighter. The leader of HTS was once an Al Qaeda commander, although he split from the group years ago. He promised tolerance for all religions and there would be no restrictions on women's rights. Syrians are overwhelmed by all the sudden changes. And they're getting their first glimpses of Assad's life of luxury. A video claims to show his vast collection of sports cars and SUVs repossessed by Revolution. The rebels have also been freeing political prisoners from a notorious prison once dubbed the human slaughterhouse. Assad escaped from US where he and his family were given asylum for humanitarian reasons. With him gone, there is nervousness but also hope. Refugees are rushing back to write the next chapter of Syria's history.
- [25:49]
Joe Scarborough
That's NBC's Richard Engel with that report, front page of the New York Times. Extraordinary story, William, by the way, Richard Engel sitting there reporting. Gunfire goes off. You know what Richard Engel calls that?
- [26:02]
Eugene Robinson
Yeah, Another day at the office.
- [26:04]
Joe Scarborough
Another day at the office.
- [26:05]
Eugene Robinson
That was an incredible piece that captures the moment, including what the New York Times describes as the unease. Of course, there's celebration that Assad has gone. It's been 50 years under the Assad rule, the dictatorship brutal for many people inside Syria. But now what comes next? You know, you get these rebels coming in. They've liberated the country, but what kind of rule do they impose? That's what we're waiting to see.
- [26:27]
Joe Scarborough
And Jonathan Lemire, I want to, I want us to undercut right now the whining from some people saying that Joe Biden is just sitting back and doing nothing and ceding the powers of the presidency to Donald Trump when, you know, he had his trip to Africa, a significant trip, the first trip, I think, to the continent for Joe Biden since he's been president. Yesterday reports that 75 ISIS targets inside of Syria, Syria targeted and bombed. I mean, he's moving. They're doing everything they can do right now to try to move this action in Syria in the right direction. So the idea that he's sitting around, you know, playing porn cheesy inside the White House is just garbage. Yeah.
- [27:14]
Jonathan Lemire
Administration officials en route to the region now to start getting to lay the land in since Assad has been deposed. You're right. President Biden was just in Africa, a trip that Donald Trump never made during his first term in office. It fulfilled a campaign promise by Biden to go. And this is going to be a deeply consequential foreign policy legacy for this president. And certainly there have been questions even within his own party how he has cozied up to Prime Minister Netanyahu in Israel. But we're seeing there the changes in Lebanon with Hezbollah down, of course, situation in Gaza continues. There are still hostages. We're seeing his support for Ukraine and how that has shaped alliances and shaped Europe. And now he will be handing off to his successor, who obviously has very different foreign policy views. But he hasn't done so just yet. And that's a key point. He though Trump has been on the global stage. We know he was in Paris over the weekend. The Biden team, the Biden administration still conducting foreign policy and will, too, until last minute.
- [28:07]
Willie Geist
Still ahead on Morning Joe, President elect Trump's pick for defense secretary Pete Hegseth says comments he made about women in comeback have been misconstrued.
- [28:18]
Joe Scarborough
Huh.
- [28:18]
Willie Geist
We'll show you what he initially said.
- [28:20]
Joe Scarborough
Maybe we should go through the sentences and do you think that an adjective was misplaced?
- [28:26]
Willie Geist
We'll Take a look at what he's saying now repeatedly. Plus, Hegseth was on Capitol Hill yesterday along with Cash Patel and Tulsi Gabbard. We'll go live to Capitol Hill for the very latest on where those controversial nominations stand. We're back in 90 seconds.
- [28:45]
Mika Brzezinski
UNHCR, the UN refugee agency, responds to emergencies and provides long term solutions for refugees in more than 130 countries, including Ukraine, Syria and Afghanistan.
- [28:55]
Richard Engel
UNHCR supports people forced to flee from war, violence and persecution at their greatest moment of need.
- [29:01]
Mika Brzezinski
During the winter, people forced to flee.
- [29:03]
Richard Engel
Are faced with increased hardships and costs. As temperatures drop, families struggle to meet basic needs like heating their shelters, buying.
- [29:10]
Mika Brzezinski
Warm clothes and cooking hot meals. Refugees and displaced people are struggling to.
- [29:14]
Richard Engel
Survive like never before. Funding shortfalls and rising food prices forced UNHCR to dial back its life saving.
- [29:21]
Mika Brzezinski
Aid to vulnerable families around the world.
- [29:23]
Richard Engel
Donor support is crucial to address the.
- [29:25]
Mika Brzezinski
Need for essentials for millions of families.
- [29:27]
Richard Engel
Without sufficient funding, life saving assistance will.
- [29:30]
Mika Brzezinski
Be threatened, cutting off a vital lifeline for refugees and displaced people. This is a tremendous challenge for people forced to Flee. Donate to USA for UNHCR by visiting unrefugees.org winter all gifts before December 31st are automatically matched.
- [29:46]
Richard Engel
This podcast is supported by Planned Parenthood Federation of America. Planned Parenthood Federation of America exists so all people can get access to the sexual and reproductive care and education they need. Planned Parenthood, Oregon Organizations advocate for health equity and policies that allow people the freedom to control their own bodies, lives and futures. More than 2 million patients a year rely on Planned Parenthood Health center services like STI testing and treatment, birth control, gender affirming care, abortion, cancer screenings and more. Reproductive health care and rights are under attack from public officials who are out of step with the will of the vast majority of Americans. The constitutional right to abortion has been stolen and politicians in 47 states have introduced bills that would block people from getting getting the sexual and reproductive care they need. Planned Parenthood knows that equitable access to health care, including safe, legal abortion, is a human right. Right now, Planned Parenthood needs your help to protect access to healthcare. Donate today by visiting plannedparenthood.org protect holiday.
- [30:49]
Mika Brzezinski
Magic is in the air and DSW's got all the shoes to make your season extra merry.
- [30:54]
Richard Engel
Believe you've got parties to attend and list to check twice. So DSW is taking care of the.
- [30:59]
Mika Brzezinski
Details like gifts to make their eyes all aglow styles that bring joy to your world. Brands everyone wants like Ugg, Nike, Birkenstock.
- [31:08]
Richard Engel
And more and deals to make your budget bright. Find the perfect shoes for you and yours at a DSW store near you or dsw.com.
- [31:20]
Joe Scarborough
I think huge is women in combat in quotas. I think the way they pushed that under Obama in a way that had nothing zero to do with efficacy, zero to do with lethality and capability. You don't like women in combat?
- [31:36]
Richard Engel
No.
- [31:36]
Joe Scarborough
Why not? I love women service members who contribute amazingly because everything about men and women serving together makes the situation more complicated and complication in co combat means casualties are worse. I also want an opportunity here to clarify comments that have been misconstrued that I somehow don't support women in the military. Some of our greatest warriors, our best warriors out there, are women who serve, praise their right hand to defend this country and love our nation, want to defend that flag, and they do it every single day around the globe. So I'm not presuming anything, but after President Trump asked me to be his secretary of defense, should I get the opportunity to do that, I look forward to being a secretary for all our warriors, men and women, for the amazing contributions they make in our military.
- [32:29]
Willie Geist
So women in the military, of course, very different than women in combat, which you saw him talking about in the sound by before. And he was extremely against women in combat. He made that very clear. And of course, there are many women serving this country in that capacity. Donald Trump's pick for secretary of defense, Pete Hegseth, last night attempting to soften comments he has made about women's ability to fight on the front lines. But he didn't. He just separated from it. Hegseth will be back on Capitol Hill today to meet with Republican senators. He says he is meeting with Senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska today and with Senator Susan Collins of Maine tomorrow. It comes after he sat down for a second time yesterday with a key lawmaker, Senator Joni Ernst of Iowa. Last week, she was hesitant to support the former Fox News host who has been accused of sexual assault, abusing alcohol and financial mismanagement of two nonprofits dedicated to veterans, all of which he denies. But yesterday, Senator Ernst had a different tone about Hegseth, releasing a statement praising him for his responsiveness and respect for the process and calling their conversations encouraging. Here's what she had to say about the meeting when pressed by reporters.
- [33:56]
Joe Scarborough
And I'll just refer you back to the state.
- [33:59]
Mika Brzezinski
Is that a yes note on the phone?
- [34:01]
Willie Geist
It was a very productive meeting. I think we're, we're just moving through the process.
- [34:07]
Joe Scarborough
But he does respect that I'm taking.
- [34:09]
Willie Geist
The time to spend to about the.
- [34:12]
Jonathan Lemire
Allegations guys as well.
- [34:16]
Willie Geist
Thank you very much.
- [34:17]
Joe Scarborough
Did he commit the process?
- [34:19]
Mika Brzezinski
It doesn't sound like you're a yes.
- [34:20]
Eugene Robinson
Yes.
- [34:20]
Mika Brzezinski
Is that fair?
- [34:21]
Willie Geist
I am supporting the process.
- [34:23]
Joe Scarborough
Did he commit to keeping women in.
- [34:24]
John Heilman
Their current roles in the military?
- [34:27]
Willie Geist
He is very supportive of women in the military. It is one thing that we discussion.
- [34:32]
Joe Scarborough
He'S changed his position on that memo to self. John, when you're being chased by reporters on the Senate side of Capitol Hill Hill do not take the freight elevator.
- [34:43]
Jonathan Lemire
Take the stairs because that elevator door still you could see the aid growing panicked about why trying to hit the.
- [34:50]
Willie Geist
Door closed but they kept getting in.
- [34:52]
Jonathan Lemire
The I think the reporter had a hand. I think that's a pro tip protest on that side of the Capitol. Put your hand in.
- [34:58]
John Heilman
Some people are good at other people are some people are like pro gagglers.
- [35:05]
Willie Geist
Even though we haven't introduced some NBC News national affairs analysis and a partner and chief political columnist at Puck, John Heilman's here and NBC News Capitol Hill correspondent and the new host of Way Too Early, Ali Vitale.
- [35:20]
Joe Scarborough
So Ali, let's start with you on the Hill. We've been hearing through our sources over the past week or so that there are up to six Republican senators who are no votes on hex. And John, I think your reporting matches the same, right?
- [35:37]
Jonathan Lemire
Yes.
- [35:38]
Joe Scarborough
And right now they are just waiting for Hegseth in the words of REM to feel gravity's pull much in the same way you like that much in the same way that that Gates did. And you listen to Joni Ernst again. I find it impossible hard to believe she would ever support him given everything in his background. But yesterday she said had a good meeting. We respect the process. We'll play that this out until the end. What's your read with Joni Ernst and also those Republicans that are still hard nose but aren't saying anything.
- [36:18]
Richard Engel
So there are the Republicans that are hard nosed that you guys are referring to and you're right that the unofficial whip count stands at about six. But there are plenty of Republicans including in the President elect's orbit who are hoping that it's not the gravity you're talking about but instead the gravity we talk about in Wicked where he'll be defying gravity. And I'm sorry for the pun, but we've got a lot of time still to go on this kind of a confirmation battle. It's early in the process and I think that's either going to work in Hegseth's favor because he'll be able to continue to have these kinds of meetings that go from productive. And frank is how I think Ernst was initially describing the tone of their conversations last week to now. She's supporting him through the process. And LeMere and I were talking about this on way too early. Clearly, the idea that she's had a clear tone shift is notable. The way that she's talking about in that last answer, how she didn't say anything about Hegseth committing to keep women in their current roles in the military, specifically that reporter trying to get at the idea of combat. Instead, Joni Ernst just said he's very supportive of women in the military. She said, it's one thing we talked about. Clearly, he was not always in that stance. I mean, I don't think we should let anyone rewrite history, but it does give us a good sense of the way that Hegseth is trying to at least soften the image that he came into Capitol Hill with. And as much as I think we're seeing Ernst say she's supportive of the process, that's not saying I'm supportive of the man, at least not yet. It's saying, I'll let him continue doing these meetings. I'm not going to be the next person or at least the first person to publicly tank the nomination. And I think that's important, just giving him the space and they'll see where it ends up. But that confirmation hearing is going to be bruising and brutal.
- [37:59]
Joe Scarborough
You know, one of the complaints we had, John, of our leadership when we were in Congress is they never saw around the curve, right? They were just winning, fighting to win the day. I'm talking about back when I was in Congress, fighting to win the day, fighting to win the news cycle, and not looking at the bigger picture here. All right, so maybe Pete Hegseth, maybe he wins a news cycle here, maybe he wins a news cycle there. But you go to the end of this process, they don't want Senate hearings, because if they get Senate hearings with Pete Hegseth, they're going to see testimony, certainly reports NBC News reports from Fox News employees of public drunkenness recently at Fox News. They're going to see reports of alcohol abuse when he was running two vets organizations and some pretty tawdry behavior while he was running those organizations that have all been outlined in whistleblower reports. They're going to see in black and white. They're going to see financial mismanagement of vets, organizations that were very strong when he started there that ended up basically on the verge of bankruptcy and irrelevance through his stewardship of smaller vets organizations, let alone the dod. And yes, they're going to see testimony just like we would have seen with Gates. It may not have been the 17 year old girl for Gates, but it may have been the other women around that with Gates. But here we have the alleged rape. We, we have the police report. We have somebody who leaked that to the New York Times and members of this woman's family if she doesn't testify, other people testifying about what Pete Hegseth has done in the past.
- [40:00]
Willie Geist
The email from his mom.
- [40:01]
Joe Scarborough
And the email, of course, from his mom, which actually lines up neatly with everything we've heard before and after about Pete Hegsliff. This is, again, I will just say it. As I said with Gates, this is one of those old Midas commercials. You can pay me now or you can pay me later. And it is not in Donald Trump or the new administration's best interest that this is played all over the front pages of newspapers for a week or so while he's trying to get momentum for whatever policies he wants to push. Again. Maybe they want to put up a good fight, but at the end of the day, this is just bad news for the DoD. It's bad news for America and the world. It's even bad news for the incoming president.
- [40:51]
John Heilman
Well, I think that that's a, that's definitely a point of view. And it's not. It's a point of view.
- [40:57]
Joe Scarborough
Thank you.
- [40:57]
Eugene Robinson
Thank you.
- [40:58]
John Heilman
It's a point of view that I.
- [41:00]
Joe Scarborough
Think it's not really a point of view so much as a projection of how this ends up.
- [41:04]
John Heilman
It's not, I mean, look, I'm not taking the other side of the argument, but if you listen to, to people like Mike Davis, the head of the Article 3 project, and Steve Bannon ally, and you listen to Steve Bannon, people who have a lot of influence with Donald Trump. They disagree with you. They want that fight.
- [41:25]
Joe Scarborough
I'm just talking about the hearing.
- [41:26]
John Heilman
No, they want the fight. They want the hearing. They want it all. They have a much more scorched earth view of this. And look, everyone around this table, I think, would agree with your point about this, which is like, why would the President want this? And I think if you were, if you had those two guys sitting here, they would say, we want to win this fight. And no matter how bloody it gets, the bloodier it gets in some ways the better, because we are, we saw what happened. And in Mike Davis case, he analogizes all these things to the Kavanaugh experience, which is, it was a brutal experience. It was really bloody, it was really terrible, and yet we ended up getting our guy on the Supreme Court. And I'm not trying to compare the.
- [42:04]
Joe Scarborough
Two, but he, I was going to say for those that do compare the two, that's a big difference between notes that, hey, Bubba and Buster drank in the backyard and squeeze.
- [42:16]
John Heilman
In 10th grade, there was a woman who came up on Capitol Hill and testified that he had sexually assaulted her. So it was brutal for all parties there.
- [42:28]
Joe Scarborough
Let's be very clear there. She went up and testified. Nobody else did around there. Here we have one case after another after another case. We have documented whistleblower reports. We have testimony.
- [42:42]
John Heilman
You're, you're. I'm not trying to, like I said already, I'm not trying to take the other side of the argument. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying that the question of what is about to unfold there is not, it's not like there's a. If there was unanimity of opinion in Donald Trump's world that this was a mistake and they wanted to get out of it, they could have gotten out of it already.
- [42:58]
Joe Scarborough
So do you think there are people around Donald Trump? Do you think Donald Trump wants. I don't know what Donald Trump wants. Testimony about this person coming up saying he raped me and the public drunkenness and the destroying the vets organizations and Jonathan Lemire. Do they like. Cuz there are two different things. It's one thing if you say I want to fight about the mismanagement inside the Pentagon and the bureaucracy and all the waste and how they won't listen to Donald Trump. That's one. And they can get plenty of people to run the DOD that can go up there and do that and be clean, just like the difference between Pam Bondi and Matt Gaetz. But, you know, we're talking about two completely different things here. You can have a fight on. Hey, let's clean up the Pentagon. That's one thing. The question is whether this is a deeply flawed individual at this point in time to carry that fight out on Capitol Hill.
- [43:50]
Jonathan Lemire
And there's a bit of a split in the Trump camp right now. The people that I've talked to, absolutely. To Hyland's point, there are some who want this fight. They don't care who it is. This is about breaking the dod. This is about having the public spectacle. This is about ramming their choice down the throats of the public. There are others though, who do have that concern. First of all, also, let's remember Donald Trump famously disdains people who drink too much. We know that cost Rudy Giuliani a Cabinet post in 2016 because he would drink too much and fall asleep on Trump's plane while they were hurtling across the country. Trump has told people, I am told, that he doesn't care for that. It's more than he expected. They also let's remember the transition, transition team surprised by even that initial sexual assault allegation because of their lack of vetting because Hegseth didn't come forward with the information right away. And there are some who believe that even if hegspath were to go down, they could find a more palatable choice, one who has a better chance of being confirmed, who's still going to enact all those policies. So right now it is a great debate. But they are great with hegsthe taking so much oxygen though they feel better about some of the others chances slipping. Lower the radar. Cash Patel, Tulsi Gabbard and the like.
- [44:50]
John Heilman
And I just say it's true that Donald Trump doesn't like the drone drunkenness. He does not mind as much people who have been accused of sexual assault and sexual harassment. He's picked a lot of them and he often sides with them. And I think they have this view, which is a view that you've heard from. It's a view first attributed, I believe, to Bill Clinton, which is strong and wrong is better than we can write. They do not want to be seen as folding over nominee after nominee because they think that it's not like, hey, if we give it on these two, that's going to lessen the taste for blood. They think that the more that they capitulate what they see as capitulation, backing away from their picks for totally sound strategic reasons. Joe, I think your analysis would be the standard. This is terrible for Donald Trump. And I think a lot of people around Trump say what's worse for Donald Trump is to give in and back away from someone who is one of their loyalists.
- [45:43]
Willie Geist
But on top of everything that jokes was put forward here is the fact that he's completely unqualified for the job. Completely.
- [45:52]
John Heilman
I do not disagree with that fact. But I'm trying to do the analysis of why this isn't an. This is not a foregone conclusion.
- [46:00]
Joe Scarborough
Let me give you the other side, though. There are people, quite a few people, a lot of people inside of Trump. They'll look at the Matt Gaetz pick and they laugh. And they go, we traded up. We went from getting a guy who wasn't up to the job to getting a woman who was attorney General of the state of Florida for eight years, has Democrats saying positive things about her and also who they believe is far more competent. So they actually, they're not sitting around going, oh, that Gates thing was just horrible for us. They're sitting there thinking, kind of laughing, going, yeah, we traded up. We're good. So I can't believe they can't trade up with somebody like Hegseth, who. Who is, again, woefully unqualified, given all of the other problems.
- [46:44]
Eugene Robinson
And your point applies also to dni. It applies to Tulsi Gabbard. It also applies to FBI, to Cash Patel, which is you can find a MAGA loyalist who will disrupt those agencies and do all the things you want to say that you want done to them without all the baggage that comes with it. There's somewhere in the middle there that they can land on. We'll see if they get there. Ali Vitale, first, let me officially congratulate you on the way too early gig. Nobody better to take the choice from Jonathan.
- [47:13]
Richard Engel
Thank you so much.
- [47:14]
Joe Scarborough
We started with Milton Burl.
- [47:15]
Eugene Robinson
Continue what we started, you know, Ali 2009. It was a little pregame show to Morning Joe, 30 minutes long that we put together with chewing gum and duct tape.
- [47:26]
Joe Scarborough
Can you believe back then we had ashtrays. We were smoking.
- [47:29]
Eugene Robinson
That was the best. Oh, yeah, with the shag carpet. Shag carpet.
- [47:32]
Joe Scarborough
Carpet. We had the band.
- [47:34]
Eugene Robinson
Remember the band?
- [47:36]
Willie Geist
I'd like to keep the band. Can we do that?
- [47:39]
John Heilman
Lava lamps.
- [47:40]
Tom Winter
Lava lamp.
- [47:43]
Joe Scarborough
Gene remembers.
- [47:45]
Tom Winter
I remember.
- [47:45]
Ali Vitale
I remember, you know, like, like, it was just like Johnny.
- [47:50]
Joe Scarborough
You know, just like Carson.
- [47:51]
Ali Vitale
Just like Johnny.
- [47:52]
Willie Geist
Yeah.
- [47:53]
Eugene Robinson
Ally, welcome. This is how we do. Congratulations.
- [47:57]
Ali Vitale
Yeah.
- [47:59]
Eugene Robinson
But let's talk about what's going on in Capitol Hill. Take us inside. And let's use Senator Ernst as the example here. Her calculus, which is she sounded skeptical last week because of all the things not limited to, but especially because of that Pete Hegseth has said about women in the military. And to be clear, this is a quote from him not 10 years ago last month on that podcast. I'm straight up saying we should not have women in combat roles. That's a quote on the podcast from Pete Hegseth. And then yesterday, she sounded more open to it. So what did you read into that? And what is the vibe on Capitol Hill this morning about Pete Hegseth?
- [48:33]
Richard Engel
I think with Joni Ernst as the example, though, I will say, I think other senators, I believe it was Kevin Kramer, have warned Hegseth about the way that he's talked about women in combat and the fact that some of the very senators that he'll be testifying before, Senator Tammy Duckworth among them, have been women in combat themselves who have the physical scars of that to show for it. So that's going to be yet another wrinkle if Hegseth does move forward in this process. But for someone like Ernst, her calculus is so layered. It's the fact that she's up in 2026. We've already seen Republican senators who are not constant Trump backers already draw primary challengers. She probably doesn't want to be among those. There's also the fact, though, too, that she's also, at least in the reporting that we've done, a name that's in the mix if the Hegseth nomination ends up falling apart. Everyone at that table that you guys are sitting at knows that the way to get in Trump's good graces and stay there is to stay loyal. So by saying I'm supporting the process and falling short of saying I'm supporting the man, Ernst is saying that she's being good going along to get along in this case, while also doing a thorough check in her private meetings with him. And then the confirmation hearings will be what they'll be. I think that you guys are right, at least the way that Heilman is talking about it, like the chaos is the point oftentimes in Trump world. They're not shying away from the fact that this is going to be a nasty, nasty confirmation hearing. Democrats are going to drag up all of this, and they're not going to have to look too hard when it comes to maligning Pete Hegseth. Bringing forward the allegations that you guys have talked about. All of that is going to be in there. But I also think that there's a very pervasive thinking in Trump world that if you fold on the first one, you're just going to have to start folding later on down the line. This is a man who has never said I'm sorry for any number of the public controversies that he's been at the center of. Certainly that's not the tone that they want to set now. But look, a long time between now and the nominating contests on Capitol Hill. The mood was bad had last week. It's better this week, but it's only Tuesday. We'll see where it goes.
- [50:36]
Joe Scarborough
We'll see what happens in Gene Robinson. Great point about Joni Ernst being up in 2026, something John Hyman I were talking about earlier, the fact that she has to worry about her primary and probably doesn't have to worry quite so much about what happens in the general election. But there are a lot of Republicans that are not up in 26, that are up in 28, that are up in 30. And for these Republicans who actually can actually dare to be concerned about America's national security, I mean, if you're up in 2030, after Donald Trump is out of office, you can actually sit back and go, all right, this would be horrific for the Department of Defense, especially at a time when the Middle east is in more turmoil, I would say, than any time since 1970.
- [51:26]
Ali Vitale
Absolutely. Look at what's happening in Syria today. Right. The Israelis have gone across the border into Syria to try to, you know, neutralize possible attacks. The Turks have gone into Syria. There's questions about, you know, getting the Iranians who are already there out. This is a mess. And, you know, there are, I think, 1,000 or maybe it's just 100 US troops somewhere in eastern Syria that have to be taken care of and given assignments. And what are they doing today? This is enormously complicated. And that's just Syria. The Middle east is a complete mess right now. And Pete Heckseth is manifestly completely unqualified to serve as secretary of Defense at this moment or at any other moment. And that is something. I mean, Mika mentioned it, but the focus has to come back there. Regardless of what kind of person he is, which is certainly important, and regardless of his drinking, he is unqualified. He's a Fox News host. The secretary of defense is in the chain of command from the president to the secretary of defense to the commanders who are trying to execute our foreign policy and keep Americans safe at a very dangerous time. And that's something that I hope and I think those senators are cognizant of and will keep in mind as this process goes along. I understand why Joni Ernst might not want, but she served in combat. Tammy Duckworth served in combat. It's just this is a bad nomination, any way you look at it. And I hope those senators keep, you know, not only recognize that, but act on it.
- [53:38]
Joe Scarborough
Remember, we, Mika and I saw Conclave, by the way.
- [53:42]
Jonathan Lemire
Oh, I did, too.
- [53:42]
Joe Scarborough
Whoa.
- [53:43]
Tom Winter
Really good.
- [53:44]
Joe Scarborough
Oh, my gosh. So what's the best way to become. Become pope. Don't want to be pope by not wanting to be pope. And a brilliant insight about Joni Ernst. Yeah, right. Best way to become SecDef is not by pushing over the current.
- [54:00]
John Heilman
It's no good. It's no good for her to have her name in that mix. And you know, you talked about feeling gravity's pull before. You know, she has been for the last couple weeks stuck in a moment she can't get out of. All this is the move of you go up to the Capitol Hill every day and have everybody swarm on you and be like you're the key person.
- [54:18]
Joe Scarborough
What do you think?
- [54:18]
John Heilman
What do you think? What do you think? Are you going to vote against him and you want his job? Her maneuver right now is please stop. Let me just not be in the middle of this for a little while so I can just sort of like get a little further along here and hopefully this thing will go away and.
- [54:32]
Joe Scarborough
I don't have to.
- [54:33]
John Heilman
I'll never have to take a position.
- [54:34]
Joe Scarborough
You just did a Ghostbusters thing. Crossing strings of already to John Ali.
- [54:41]
Willie Geist
Thank you all very much for coming on the show this morning. Great conversation. Coming up on Morning Joe, we're going to turn back to the latest developments out of Syria where rebel forces are now in control of the country. We'll dig into how the fall of the Assad regime is impacting the rest of the Middle East. Morning Joe will be right back.
- [55:16]
Tom Winter
Amen on MSNBC is now available as a podcast.
- [55:20]
Jonathan Lemire
Every Saturday and Sunday, host Amen Mohedin reads between the lines of the week's.
- [55:25]
Joe Scarborough
Biggest stories spotlighting the pressing issues facing our country, our and those fighting to solve them.
- [55:31]
Jonathan Lemire
We are tracking the fallout across the Middle East. Tonight, search for Amen wherever you're listening.
- [55:35]
Joe Scarborough
And follow and for ad free listening to this show and other MSNBC podcasts. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hey everyone, it's Chris Hayes.
- [55:47]
Mika Brzezinski
This week on my podcast, why Is this Happening? Harvard government professor, New York Times bestselling author and democracy scholar Steve Levitsky. I think there will be an election in 2028. I'm not as pessimistic as some. I don't think we're sliding getting into fascism. I think there's a very good chance that the Democratic party wins the 2028 election, but it's not clear how we rebuild a consensus in favor of basic small d Democratic politics. That's this week on why is this Happening? Search for why is this Happening?
- [56:15]
Richard Engel
Wherever you're listening right now.
- [56:16]
Mika Brzezinski
And Follow the World with Richard Engel.
- [56:18]
Willie Geist
And Yalda Hakim is a brand new podcast from Sky News.
- [56:21]
Mika Brzezinski
With me, Sky News lead World News presenter Yald and me, Richard Engel, chief former correspondent for NBC News.
- [56:28]
Willie Geist
Every week we'll be reporting from the front line of the world's trouble spots.
- [56:31]
Joe Scarborough
And asking the big questions to the.
- [56:33]
Willie Geist
World'S most important and influential people.
- [56:36]
Mika Brzezinski
Join us for the Ground Truth to help you understand what is happening in the world today and why it matters to you.
- [56:41]
Willie Geist
So that's the World with Richard Engel and Yalda Hakim.
- [56:44]
Mika Brzezinski
Listen every Wednesday wherever you get your.
- [56:46]
Willie Geist
Podcasts before the top of the hour. Time now to take a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. Rupert Murdoch. Murdoch has failed in a bid to change his family's trust. A Nevada Commissioner blocked the 93 year old's attempt to give full control of his empire to his son Lachlan. According to the New York Times, Murdoch's effort is aimed at locking in the right wing editorial slant at Fox News. His other children, according to the Times, are both known to have less conservative political views than their father or brother. The scathing ruling characterizes Murdoch's plan as a carefully crafted charade.
- [57:27]
Joe Scarborough
So I wasn't following this really closely, but I actually saw John Heilman that they got the idea to actually bring this action. Watching Succession, an episode of Succession.
- [57:35]
John Heilman
I was just thinking exactly the same thing. Whoa.
- [57:38]
Willie Geist
Okay. Thank you.
- [57:40]
John Heilman
This is pop. Flashed on my. I'm thinking about that parallel when it was on a real time. It wasn't to me like obvious that it was just the Murdoch family. In retrospect, it seems more like the Murdoch family with each passing day.
- [57:54]
Joe Scarborough
Right.
- [57:55]
Willie Geist
All right. The Wall Street Journal has this headline this morning. In China's rapidly aging cities, young people flee and few babies are born. In one example, only 5,500 babies were born in a city of 1.7 million last year. By comparison, Michigan's Wayne county, which includes Detroit, has a similar sized population, large, more than 20,000 births. While China's one child policy supercharged China's economic surge, it now means there are fewer young people to take care of the elderly and fewer women to start family.
- [58:31]
Joe Scarborough
This is a, is a critically important issue when you look at all the problems that China has been strapped with over the past decade. You talk to economists, you talk to CEOs, you talk to people that are projecting where they want to move their businesses, where they want to do their work. You keep hearing over and over again about the demographic time bomb in China that's going off and it is a nightmare for them.
- [58:55]
Willie Geist
So every man at this table is going to want to hear this next story because they're going to want to get their watches. Today, Tom Brady's rare watch collection goes up for auction at Sotheby's. The seven time super bowl champion is selling dozens of timepieces and personal possessions including game worn helmets and jerseys, some dating back to his time at the University of Michigan. An ultra rare 1969 Rolex Daytona. Paul Newman is priced to sell for up to 9. Who prices come on.
- [59:28]
John Heilman
Bargain at twice the price. Bargain at half the price.
- [59:33]
Eugene Robinson
Selling.
- [59:33]
Willie Geist
I don't would have these like. Why do you have these?
- [59:37]
Joe Scarborough
Okay, listen, I know there are people out there probably that get watches and they. That's not very important. You know, like my watch collection. I think I found a 1978 Timex.
- [59:51]
John Heilman
Watch.
- [59:52]
Joe Scarborough
This watch, okay, you know people, but people look like you guys know people that like go buy anyhow. I just lose them. I just lose them. Why do you get them?
- [60:04]
Willie Geist
Okay. He has a royal oak that he wore at that rose.
- [60:08]
John Heilman
This is really these, these, these glamour shots are not for. I'm not meant for this table.
- [60:12]
Willie Geist
The man purchased a 197017 Tiffany's pocket watch.
- [60:17]
Joe Scarborough
How much?
- [60:18]
Willie Geist
I don't know how much. Anyhow, we'll be back in 90 seconds with what we're learning about the identity.
- [60:25]
John Heilman
A lot of those 900 grand. A lot of these watches I will, I would bet money were purchased for him by someone who was. These are investments and he's then the reason why he bought them in the first place is because he's not going to make a ton of money selling them at a huge profit from what he bought them from a company.
- [60:39]
Joe Scarborough
Okay, so let me tell you something. I mean the guy needs money, obviously, so good for him.
- [60:42]
John Heilman
Hey, you know, it's funny. Even people who are really rich play the stock market.
- [60:45]
Joe Scarborough
Really?
- [60:45]
John Heilman
Yeah, it's wild.
- [60:46]
Willie Geist
Okay, don't worry, I'm not getting you a pocket watch for Christmas.
- [60:50]
Joe Scarborough
I got my Timex shout out Shinola.
- [60:52]
Eugene Robinson
Made in Detro, baby. Oh, yeah.
- [60:56]
Willie Geist
Okay, wait, give me the info on that.
- [60:59]
Tom Winter
Do they still make swatches?
- [61:01]
Eugene Robinson
Oh, Yeah, I have two swatches. They're under 100 bucks.
- [61:03]
Joe Scarborough
Oh, wow.
- [61:03]
Eugene Robinson
I think they're 75, 85 depending on the one you get.
- [61:06]
Tom Winter
Eamon on MSNBC is now available as a podcast.
- [61:11]
Jonathan Lemire
Every Saturday and Sunday, host Eamonn Mohedin.
- [61:14]
Joe Scarborough
Reads between the lines of the week's biggest stories, spotlighting the pressing issues facing our country, our world and those fighting to solve them.
- [61:21]
Jonathan Lemire
We are tracking the fallout across the Middle East. Tonight, search for Amen wherever you're listening.
- [61:26]
Joe Scarborough
And follow and for ad. Free listening to this show and other MSNBC podcasts.
- [61:31]
Tom Winter
Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.