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- [00:02]
Ted Danson
Hey, friends, Ted Danson here. And I want to let you know about my new podcast. It's called Where Everybody Knows yous Name with me, Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson. Sometimes doing this podcast is a chance for me and my good bud Woody to reconnect after cheers wrapped 30 years ago. Plus, we're introducing each other to the friends we've met since, like Jane Fonda, Conan O'Brien, Eric Andre, Mary Steenburgen, my wife, and Flea from the Red Hot Chili Peppers. And trust me, it's always a great hang when Woody's there. So why wait? Listen to where everybody knows your name. Wherever you get your podcasts. Auto insurance can all seem the same until it comes time to use it. So don't get stuck paying more for less coverage.
- [00:47]
Woody Harrelson
Switch to USA auto insurance and you could start saving money in no time.
- [00:52]
Ted Danson
Get a quote Today, restrictions apply. USA so this is January 6th. These are the hostages. Approximately 1500 for a pardon. Full pardon. We hope they come out tonight. Frankly, they're expecting it. Approximately 1500 people. Six, six commutations.
- [01:16]
Jonathan Lemire
Were there any cases you did not commute or pardon?
- [01:19]
Ted Danson
We're looking at different things, but the commutations would be the ones that we'll take a look and maybe it'll stay that way or it'll go to full pardon.
- [01:30]
Joe Scarborough
That was President Trump last night in the Oval Office announcing pardons for people connected with the January 6th Capitol attack. That is despite previously saying he would consider pardons and commutations on a case by case basis and hearing condemnations from his vice president, J.D. vance and his nominee for Attorney General, Pam Bondi, of those who commit committed violent acts. Also ahead, we're going to sort through the dozens of executive orders the president signed yesterday, focusing on the ones that could have a significant impact versus others that appear to be just for the base. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Tuesday, January 21st. Along with Joe Willey and me, we have the co host of our fourth hour, Jonathan Lemire. He's a contributing writer at the Atlantic covering the White House and national politics. The host of the Pot podcast on Brand with Donnie Deutsch. Donnie Deutsch is here. Former Secretary of Homeland Security in the Obama administration, Jeh Johnson and the host of Way Too Early, Ali Vitale stays with us this morning. So Donald Trump took the oath of office for a second time Yesterday, becoming the 47th President of the United States. We heard that Trump several times throughout the day. We heard from him, beginning with his inaugural address from inside the Capitol Rotunda. Surrounded by family, former presidents, cabinet appointees and tech billionaires.
- [03:03]
Ted Danson
The golden age of America begins right now. From this day forward, our country will flourish and be respected again all over the world. We will be the envy of every nation and we will not allow ourselves to be taken advantage of any longer. During every single day of the Trump administration, I will very simply put America first. My proudest legacy will be that of a peacemaker and unifier. That's what I want to be, a peacemaker and a unifier. America will reclaim its rightful place as the greatest, most powerful, most respected nation on earth, inspiring the awe and admiration of the entire world. So, Jonathan Lemire, you've been looking at the two, the two tabloids, and there's your split screen. We've got the grim speaker with the Daily News and the golden age of America with the New York Post. And Willie, I think that about, that about sums it up what yesterday's festivities were for an electorate that were, that was pretty much evenly divided. You know, there are a lot of people that listened to what he said yesterday, voted for him and said, yay, America. We're, we're coming back. And then there were others who actually looked at data and looked at facts and realized that our economy is stronger relative to the rest of the world than it's ever been. Our military alliances strengthened over the past four years in a way they've never been. And that in fact, America militarily is stronger relative to the rest of the world than it's been since 1945. And yet that speech, the events of yesterday, again, two Americas saw two completely different things. And as George Will wrote in his column, two Americas just did not understand the other side. And there was one other thing that George Will added in this Washington Post column, and he talked about manners. That sounds very old fashioned, but he said it also. Two Americas with a very different view of how we treat one another. And it just, we're just not used to looking at these events, seeing other presidents and other people who have sacrificed their all for this country just being trashed five feet away. That's happened now twice in Ishmael. Again, this is what Americans voted for. And the divide, again, is illustrated so clearly in these two New York tabloids. Two Americas who saw yesterday's events through two completely different prisms.
- [06:33]
Jonathan Lemire
Yeah, if you follow Donald Trump, if you watch certain cable networks and read certain newspapers, his inaugural address made complete sense to you. The case is that America is a nation in decline and he has arrived to save us, to rescue the country. It was the same case he made, remember, in 2017 at his inaugural address. And you're right, yesterday when we were on the air, felt relatively conventional. Donald Trump shaking hands, arriving at the White House, having tea with the Bidens, all of those things. Even walking into the rotunda there right up until the moment he stepped to the stage and began speaking, as you said, with President Biden, Vice President Harris, all the former presidents sitting in that room and just began trashing America in a speech that, as I said, will resonate with the people who support him and voted for him, because that's the version of the story they've been hearing for several years now. And then he delivered on what he promised that a lot of people hoped were just threats, particularly in terms of emptying the jails of violent offenders around January 6th, almost 1600 of them. And a slew of executive actions he took that, again, were things he had said he was going to do, so shouldn't be totally surprising, but hoped that someone could intervene somewhere along the way. As J.D. vance said a week ago, well, if you committed a crime, if you committed violence against a police officer, you should not come out of jail. That was the messaging from people even who supported him.
- [08:00]
Joe Scarborough
And Bondi, too, as well.
- [08:01]
Jonathan Lemire
Pam Bondi said the same at her.
- [08:02]
Ted Danson
But David Psycho Thom Tillis said the same as well. And there are a lot of other Republican senators this morning, obviously trying to figure out what they're going to say.
- [08:12]
Jonathan Lemire
Yeah.
- [08:13]
Joe Scarborough
So let's move through exactly what happened, because it kind of went from from the inaugural speech to the crescendo. In the evening. After delivering his inaugural address, President Trump moved to Emancipation hall, where he gave another speech to supporters who weren't inside the Capitol Rotunda. This time, Trump aired grievances and attacked his political rivals, saying these are the remarks he was advised to leave out of his first speech, 2020.
- [08:41]
Ted Danson
By the way, that election was totally rigged.
- [08:43]
Mika Brzezinski
But these are the.
- [08:44]
Ted Danson
That's okay. It was a rigged election. You know, the only thing good about it, it showed how bad they are, showed how incompetent. And frankly, historically, this is a much bigger event.
- [08:57]
Mika Brzezinski
If that would have gone like it should have now.
- [09:00]
Joe Scarborough
The president chose to have his inaugural parade inside the Capital One arena because it was cold outside. The raucous crowd first heard from Elon Musk and Cash Patel, who touted the imminent return of America's glory days. The president then took to the stage and used the opportunity to sign the first batch of executive orders, among them issues related to climate policy Immigration and rolling back DEI initiatives put in place by the Biden administration. But the more consequential executive orders came last night inside the Oval Office. There, President Trump issued roughly 1500 pardons and commuted the sentences of 14 others in connection with the attack on the US Capitol on January 6, 2021. The pardons included hundreds of people sentenced to significant prison time for their convictions of serious felonies, such as assaulting police officers with deadly or dangerous weapons. Additionally, Trump issued, quote, a full, complete and unconditional pardon to all other individuals convicted of offenses related to events that occurred at or near the United states Capitol on January 6, 2021, a category that includes other rioters who assaulted law enforcement officers. Those with commuted sentences include individuals associated with the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers who were convicted of seditious conspiracy. Some of those pardons included Enrique Tarrio, the former leader of the Proud Boys, who was serving a 22 year prison term after being convicted at trial of sadistic conspiracy, a crime that requires prosecutors to prove that a defendant used violent force against the government. As the Wall Street Journal notes, the breadth of the pardons contradicted the case by case approach. Trump and his allies had signaled ahead of his inauguration, and it flew in the face of admonitions from Republican allies who'd voiced opposition to the notion of pardoning January 6th defendants who had assaulted police. Those included his own Vice President, J.D. vance, and his choice for attorney general, Pam Bondi.
- [11:31]
Donnie Deutsch
If you protested peacefully on January 6th.
- [11:33]
Mika Brzezinski
And you've had Merrick Garland's Department of.
- [11:35]
Donnie Deutsch
Justice treat you like a gang member.
- [11:38]
Ted Danson
You should be pardoned.
- [11:39]
Donnie Deutsch
If you committed violence on that day.
- [11:42]
Jonathan Lemire
Obviously you shouldn't be pardoned.
- [11:44]
Woody Harrelson
Do you believe that those who've been convicted of the January 6 riot, violent assaults on our police officers, should be pardoned? That's a simple question.
- [11:53]
Joe Scarborough
So, Senator, I have not seen any of those files. Of course, if confirmed and if asked to advise the president, I will look at each and every file. But let me be very clear in speaking to you. I condemn any violence on a law enforcement officer in this country.
- [12:11]
Ted Danson
So Jonathan Lemire, a couple, I guess, Willie said A week ago, J.D. vance said if you commit violence against a police officer, you should not be put out of jail. You look at Officer Fanon beaten inches of his life. And if you just want a split screen on the pardons, because I know all of us wish that none of the pardons were necessary yesterday and are concerned about what may come in the future because of those pardons. But you look at the two pardons. The outgoing president pardoned a police officer who had the hell beaten out of him within inches of his life, felt the need to do that. And the incoming president pardoned the people who beat the hell out of the police officer. So tell me, how did, how did we move from what JD Vance was saying a week ago and what Donald Trump was saying about looking at these from a case by case basis to where we ended up last night with, with action so sweeping that it seems that Republican, even Republican senators are surprised.
- [13:27]
Woody Harrelson
Yeah.
- [13:27]
Donnie Deutsch
We're seeing right there on the screen his Time magazine interview just after his election, saying I'm going to do this case by case and if they were nonviolent, I think they've been greatly punished. But suggesting there would be a different category for those convicted of violent offenses. That said, let's remember his very first campaign event in this election in Waco, Texas, where he had the first thing he did was step on stage and appear with the January 6th convict choir. So some of this has telegraphed all along, but it did accelerate and it grew more expansive despite what we heard from JD Vance just 10 days ago, despite what we heard from Pam Bondi just last week. And Trump, with he and his closest advisors, now that they're in power, decided to go big to have sweeping pardons, including for members of the Oath Keepers and Proud Boys, going far beyond what even some of his closest allies wanted or even recommended here. Let's recall, of course, that some of these convicts, their sentences were handed down by Trump appointed judges. Let's remember, of course, this is the largest criminal investigation in the history of the Department of Justice. One has to wonder what happens now to the career officials in DOJ and attorney's offices, U.S. attorney's offices, whether they will stay in place after this. Some of these people, there were parties last night at the D.C. jail. There were hopes that people would get out in time to attend some of the inauguration events last night. This is what Trump's base wanted and this was what he delivered.
- [14:51]
Ted Danson
And let's underline that this is what he overdelivered. Well, this is what his base wanted. And in reading the news accounts this morning, you learned that after J.D. vance said that those rioters who beat the hell out of law enforcement officers after he said they should not get pardoned, it was JD Vance who got attacked by the MAGA base saying that all needed to be acquitted. And you are right, he, Donald Trump talked about this throughout the entire campaign. And this is, this is what America voted for. This is what, this is what Democrats warned of. This is what Donald Trump campaigned on, and this is what Americans voted for for. And it's what they got. What I'm curious, curious about Jeh Johnson, with obviously your, your background and extensive knowledge of law enforcement and the dealing with US Attorneys, I'm wondering what, what the repercussions of this will be, what the impact will be for each One.
- [16:06]
Woody Harrelson
Of those 1600 cases, there's a federal prosecutor assigned, dedicated to the case who's feeling pretty disenchanted this morning. I would not be surprised if we saw a mass resignation from the Department of Justice as a result of this. Going back to this issue of the executive orders, that's probably what some would.
- [16:31]
Joe Scarborough
Argue, some would say that's exactly what probably what the Trump administration wants and.
- [16:36]
Ted Danson
The administration would want.
- [16:37]
Woody Harrelson
Yeah, well, somebody's got to prosecute violent crime in this country or somebody's got to prosecute organized crime in this country. Somebody's got to prosecute terrorism in this country. Somebody's got to prosecute bank fraud in this country. Let's not forget that one of the problems with executive orders, and this is a nonpartisan, bipartisan statement. Executive orders issued on day one of an administration drafted by a transition team are done so without dealing with the bureaucracy that has to then go implement them. The cabinet officers are not even confirmed by the Senate yet. And so very often there's a unrealistic aspect to an executive order signed on day one.
- [17:21]
Ted Danson
And let me just say there was reporting about that last night that, and I'm going to talk to Donny about sort of the showbiz portion of much of the day. We always talk about trying to separate the ground noise from the signal. Most of the day was showbiz.
- [17:42]
Woody Harrelson
Right. And he undercut his own attorney general nominate by doing what he did.
- [17:45]
Ted Danson
Right. And obviously last night was, was the signal, the, not only the warning, but actually there were a couple, yeah, there were quite a few. But that said a lot of those executive orders, according to reporting from the Wall Street Journal and others, I believe were hastily written, of course, won't hold up in court and they'll probably have to do it all again.
- [18:11]
Woody Harrelson
I call them the executive orders for the full employment of lawyers, judges and courthouses. There will be a lawsuit associated with at least every one of these executive orders. Birthright citizenship. I learned, I don't know about you. You and I are lawyers, but I learned sophomore in college, that you cannot change a provision of the US Constitution by an executive order. And birthright citizenship has been enshrined in the 14th Amendment since 1868 to ensure citizenship for my enslaved ancestors. And it has been understood for over 100 years to mean if you are born or naturalized in this country and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, you're a citizen. Subject to the jurisdiction thereof, has meant that an exemption for the children of diplomats, and so that'll be challenged in court. Denying asylum will be a challenge in court.
- [19:07]
Ted Danson
And by the way, on that issue and on many of these issues, it ends up at the Supreme Court. And I don't think many court watchers believe that Amy Coney Barrett and John Roberts, at the very least, will REWRITE what the 14th Amendment has meant since right after the Civil War.
- [19:27]
Woody Harrelson
I have to believe that there is a majority of this Supreme Court who will not just overlook the plain meaning and the plain understanding of a constitutional amendment.
- [19:35]
Ted Danson
Yeah.
- [19:36]
Jonathan Lemire
So, Ali Vitale, we saw yesterday, Speaker Johnson, we saw many members of the Republican leadership standing, smiling, clapping along while Donald Trump gave his addresses. I'm curious specifically about this executive order opening the jails and releasing all the January 6th convicts, many of them who've committed violence with a fire extinguisher or a flag pole or bear spray or whatever it is against police officers, many of them serving long prison sentences, now free or about to be free. How will Speaker Johnson, how will Republicans that you cover every day on Capitol Hill react to this? How will they rationalize this? Because they seem to have been able to rationalize everything Donald Trump does. Many Democrats coming out last night and saying this is just an affront to our system of justice, which is these were jury trials, juries of their peers convicted these people based on the evidence or many of these people pleaded guilty to the charges against them, now free. What will Republicans say this morning?
- [20:33]
Ali Vitale
It's really the ultimate conclusion to the whitewashing that we've seen Republicans all the way from Donald Trump down to rank and file lawmakers on Capitol Hill do when it comes to January 6th. I mean, you show those images of what it was like outside the Capitol. We know what it was like inside the Capitol. And then you issue pardons. You contrast that with the president coming in and issuing pardons callously, as if this is not a building that still bears the scars of the trauma of that day every single time lawmakers and staffers enter its halls. You know, I had one lawmaker say to me that they were at the Castle Capitol yesterday, and they watched as the news of the likely pardons was coming through the building. And they watched as the Capitol police officers, faces fell. And certainly there is going to be that kind of a reaction within the halls of Congress. But it also strikes me that Trump was quite easily able to make good on a promise that he repeatedly made out on the campaign trail. Lemire is right to point out the way that this was always central when Trump was out campaigning, but also the fact that he stood in the halls of the Capitol and reiterated the big lie. The idea that the 2020 election was rigged was stolen. And that's the only reason that you then had people motivated and energized to go to the Capitol to try to disrupt the certification of votes that would have certified and underscored that Donald Trump lost the election. So I think people are not shocked. They knew this was coming. But I think my with sources is there was a sense of incredulity as I was talking to someone who was a staffer on the January 6th committee. They just said, what a time to be alive. I mean, those are people who, in doing their jobs, received a presidential pardon preemptively for doing nothing wrong.
- [22:24]
Joe Scarborough
And as you pointed out, Ali, this was central to his campaign. It was something he said out loud many times to great applause wherever he went, which is definitely going to raise a lot of questions for Democrats on how to move forward through that. Specifically interested Joe in the Republicans who are right now taking part in advising consent on Trump's nominees for major cabinet positions, specifically Pete Hegseth, Tulsi Gabbard, Kash Patel and others. Will they look at what happened last night and will that change their approach to looking at some of these nominees who some have a lot of questions about?
- [23:07]
Ted Danson
Well, I mean, if history is, if history is any guide, probably not. That said, and we talked about this, John, before right now, even those in the Trump administration this morning would say Tulsi Gabbard's heavy lift, RFK Jr. May be the surprise and maybe the surprise because, because again, a lot of conservatives see him as pro choice progressive and a guy despite some of his quirky views and some would say dangerous views on health care. He's, you know, he may be a safe no for a lot of these conservative senators. I don't know. I guess the question, and we can pass this around, I think, guess the question is if anybody's challenged by this and what happened, it would be most likely Cash Patel. That will raise questions in Thom Tillis, his mind. Thom Tillis who said, no, you can't, you can't release the violent offenders, people who beat the hell out of Cops and, and several others. And we've already talked about how the Pam Bondi hearing was sort of a hearing more or less on Cash Patel and what many believe to be his worst instinct. So I would, to Mika's question, I would probably, I would probably say that if anybody were affected by this negatively, it might be Cash Patel.
- [24:46]
Jonathan Lemire
Yeah.
- [24:46]
Donnie Deutsch
The smart money would say few will be because Trump has demanded such and received such loyalty from Republican senators. But I think you're right to highlight the three who are most in jeopardy here. We reported here yesterday there are some Republicans who think Gabra does not have the vote. It's raised eyebrows. She doesn't have a hearing schedule yet. They're claiming it's paperwork issues. But I think there's also some suspicion that she just simply won't get there. Trump himself has said that she's the one he's most concerned about. RFK Jr might face problems from the right. We talked about yesterday how Vice President, former Vice President Pence is actually even trying to whip votes against him because of his views on abortion. But I think it's Cash Patel here that stands, Willie, to be the one who is potentially under the most scrutiny of what happened last night, because Patel has shown his only ideology is to do whatever Donald Trump wants. And if he's already, if Trump is going to put his. And he has constitutional power to do it, but he puts his thumb on the justice scales last night and sort of undo what the DOJ has done, that's going to raise concerns. Okay, is that same sort of freedom, that same sort of deference to executive power, if that's going to be what Cash Patel is going to do at the FBI, that may give some Republicans some pause.
- [25:51]
Jonathan Lemire
Donnie, though, if you watch yesterday's proceedings from start to finish, had the air among Republicans of a coronation. They talked about him. This was almost a divine event, that his life was spared in Butler, Pennsylvania, so he could return and lead the country again. The way they talked about him as the greatest president of their lifetime. You know, all the language that was out there, it's hard to see any of them at this point. The way he's consolidated power, crossing him on any of these nominees, it was.
- [26:20]
Mika Brzezinski
Marketing towards a force. I mean, look like Donald Trump. I hate Donald Trump. He's a brilliant marketer. And yesterday, I'm not talking about January 6th, leading up to January 6th was marketing 101. He basically in the executive order, even signing them on stage in front of people, making it like a ceremony. He understands where business, entertainment, pop Culture, politics, news comes together. We look on stage and we say, bezos. And all those people go, oh, this is the tech industrial complex. America sees that and goes, oh, these are our superheroes. There's a disconnect. Joe, you were talking about this with what America, one side of America is seeing what another side of America is seeing. He gives an executive order about calling the border crisis an emergency. And the Democrats go, well, but you know, the crossings are all time low. It doesn't matter. That's what America wants to hear. What marketing is, is understanding what your audience wants and give it to them. That's what the Democrats have got to start.
- [27:26]
Ted Danson
Also that the drill, baby, drill part. The Wall Street Journal said, wait, not only do we not have an energy crisis right now, we're, we're drilling more oil than ever before. So I want to, following up what you said, though, George Will yesterday, this is brilliant. I want to read what George Will said and then I want to comment. And, and, and this, this is something that I think Democrats, the media, all of us over the past decade have missed.
- [28:00]
Mika Brzezinski
Yes.
- [28:02]
Ted Danson
I mean, we've all said parts of this. George Will put it all together, and what we were seeing yesterday where we looked at things and go, presidents don't do that. You know, Ronald Reagan would never have done that. Barack Obama would have never done that. So George Will said, and he was actually, he was quoting a Stanford Hoover Institution discussion where somebody said, objected to the statement, this is not who we are. Kotkin asked, who is the we? Trump, he said, is not an alien who landed from another planet. This is someone the American people voted for, who reflects something deep and abiding about American culture. Think of all the worlds he has inhabited and that lifted him up. Pro wrestling, reality tv, casinos and gambling, which are no longer just in Las Vegas or Atlantic City, but everywhere, embedded in daily life, celebrity culture, social media. All of that looks to me like America. And yes, so does fraud and brazen lying and the P.T. barnum Carnival Barker stuff. But there is an audience, and not a small one for where Trump came in from and who he is. And we saw, I was talking to somebody who actually has been very involved in the past and pro wrestling as far as owning pro wrestling divisions. And he said, he said, he called me and he said, this is, he quoted the George Will thing. He goes, are you watching the Capital One event? This is pro wrestling. I had to explain to my investors, they don't wrestle. They go out and they talk and they flex their muscles and they do all of These performative things and the crowds scream and then they wrestle for five minutes and then they end it the same way. And this George Will column gets to a point. The Democrats need to understand that for half of America, this embodies popular culture and he embodies what they want out of a president far different than what the other half of America has ever wanted from a president.
- [30:40]
Mika Brzezinski
Democrats, instead of, at this point, if the Democrats brought me in, instead of saying what Donald Trump is doing wrong and all the things wrong, start to look at what he's doing right. From a winning point of view. From a winning point of view. Once again, he is giving the people what they want. We can wring our hands. We can. He's putting on a show.
- [30:58]
Ted Danson
Half of them. Yeah, half.
- [30:59]
Mika Brzezinski
At least a little over half. Or at least certainly half. He's putting on a show and he's very good at it. And you know what's interesting? The Democrats talked about the joy of, you know, running with it. They're walking around, their chests are out. They're feeling like winners, and the Democrats feel like whiners and nerds. And that's got to change. That's got to go upside down.
- [31:23]
Ted Danson
Well, and I couldn't help but look at Ali. I couldn't help but look at last night's event at the Capital One center and not say that was not only focused on his supporters across America, but he also wanted Republicans on Capitol Hill to see this quasi royal entrance, complete with. With trumpets, long, trumpets blaring, and the family coming in like royalty. And there was a purpose for it. And the purpose was to show his strength that I alone can fix it. I am your retribution. Sort of a Louis xiv. I am the state. And to show Republicans on Capitol Hill just how popular he is with their base.
- [32:23]
Ali Vitale
As if they needed that reminder. But certainly he'll take the opportunity. I mean, this is the way that he's going to be able to continue to leverage control over any lawmaker that might think about stepping out of line, whether it comes later down the road on reconciliation and pushing packages on taxes or immigration. But it also comes in the immediate term as we watch these confirmation battles for cabinet nominees continue to tick down these reminders of, and I think coronation is the right word, these reminders of whatever mandate Trump and Republicans want to talk about, they all serve to underscore the stronghold that he has on Washington, D.C. on the levers of power, on the way that government functions. And I do think it's really incumbent upon us as the media watchers and the reporters, to take him literally, listen to the fact that on day one, a lot of the promises, if not many of the promises that he made on the campaign trail were immediately translated into executive actions, however sloppy and however held up in court they will be and that some of them are clean cut and dry. Pardoning the January 6th insurrectionist is Chief on that list. The fact that that can just be done with the stroke of a pen, I think it all served to underscore for Republicans on the Hill, for Democrats on the Hill, for everyone in Washington and beyond, support him or not, but this is how it is now.
- [33:42]
Ted Danson
And Democrats quietly reminding each other that this was a one and a half percent election.
- [33:50]
Ali Vitale
Yes.
- [33:51]
Ted Danson
And that Republicans have a one vote majority in the House and a three vote majority in the Senate.
- [34:03]
Joe Scarborough
Right.
- [34:03]
Ted Danson
Yeah.
- [34:03]
Mika Brzezinski
But I just want to add one thing to that. We can say that to ourselves. He has co opted America's Heartbeat. I just. You have to.
- [34:11]
Joe Scarborough
Well, if America's heartbeat, I'm not saying.
- [34:12]
Mika Brzezinski
You might not like that.
- [34:13]
Joe Scarborough
Hostage families standing behind him and falling.
- [34:16]
Mika Brzezinski
America's Heartbeat is standing behind the bat.
- [34:18]
Joe Scarborough
Marketing.
- [34:19]
Mika Brzezinski
Listen to me, listen to me, listen to me.
- [34:21]
Joe Scarborough
Talking about J6.
- [34:23]
Mika Brzezinski
Well, J6 people will absorb it because he gives them what they want in other places. This is just, I want the Democrats to learn that you can even get away with things as ridiculous as that if you're feeding people what they want to hear and what they need.
- [34:38]
Ted Danson
Well, he actually told them again. He told them what he was going to do.
- [34:44]
Richard Haass
He did.
- [34:44]
Ted Danson
And he's providing the bread and the circuses as well as, say, Roman days. That entertains them. But underneath that are things that he's doing breaking one norm after another.
- [34:58]
Joe Scarborough
You can't ignore nobody saying ignore.
- [35:01]
Mika Brzezinski
I'm saying the opposite, actually.
- [35:03]
Ted Danson
After promising that he was going to break every norm from the very beginning.
- [35:09]
Joe Scarborough
The host of Way Too Early, Ali Vitale, thank you very much. And still ahead, Jay, stay with us. Still ahead on Morning Joe, our next guest says yesterday's transfer of power from Joe Biden to Donald Trump felt hollow. Richard Haass joins us to explain that. Plus, watch what Trump does. Don't get distracted by what he says. We'll read from that new piece in the Washington Post. Morning Joe is back in 90 seconds.
- [35:36]
Ali Vitale
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- [36:40]
Donnie Deutsch
This is Jeff Lewis from Radio Andy Live and uncensored. Catch me talking with my friends about.
- [36:44]
Ted Danson
My latest obsessions, relationship issues and bodily ailments.
- [36:48]
Donnie Deutsch
With that kind of drama that seems to follow me, you never know what's going to happen.
- [36:52]
Ali Vitale
You can listen to Jeff Lewis live.
- [36:54]
Jonathan Lemire
At home or anywhere you are.
- [36:56]
Ali Vitale
Download the SiriusXM app for over 425 channels of ad free music, sports, entertainment and more. Subscribe now and get 3 months free offer Details Apply.
- [37:11]
Richard Haass
The last thing you want to hear when you need your.
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Ted Danson
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Richard Haass
Restrictions apply.
- [37:28]
Joe Scarborough
All right, time now to take a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning at 36 past the hour. Severe weather has brought dangerous conditions from Texas to the Carolinas as a major winter storm barrels through. Forecasters say the snowfall could be historic. Flights of been canceled and widespread school and business closures are expected. The Taliban has freed two Americans held in Afghanistan. They were exchanged for a Taliban member imprisoned in the US on drug charges. The prisoner swap was one of the final acts of the Biden administration. Two other American captives remain in Afghanistan and Hamas effectively back in control in Gaza after the cease fire deal with Israel. Thousands of militants streamed into the streets to reestablish control over the battered strip, according to the Wall Street Journal. The open show of force after months of being pushed underground was a signal that aid groups and governments will need to cooperate with Hamas as reconstruction efforts get underway in the coming weeks and outcome Israel has hoped to prevent.
- [38:37]
Ted Danson
Let's now bring in the President Emeritus, the Council on Foreign Relations Richard Haass. He's the author of the weekly newsletter Home and Away, available in Substack. Richard Feel free to join in the discussion about yesterday and the events, there's so much to talk about. But let's, let's start with that. It was deeply unsettling, deeply unsettling yesterday to see these Hamas militants, the people who had started this, this, this horror show on October 7. But to see after everything, after all the fighting, them streaming back into power.
- [39:17]
Richard Haass
It'S dispiriting for two reasons. One is the one you get at the Israeli war goal was an unachievable one. And what the last two days have shown was just that quote, unquote, eliminating Hamas. You can't eliminate Hamas. Even though they've been seriously degraded, they're the only armed force. Other Israelis in Gaza. And the Israeli know what you saw, Joe. You saw the price of the Israelis not putting forward a political alternative. You can't beat Hamas simply with military force. You need to show Palestine.
- [39:46]
Ted Danson
By the way, you warned about that the first day, the first day you warned about that. David Ignatius came, came on this show the first day and say, Israel, we understand what you're going to do. Tell us what happens the day after the fighting ends. And nobody in Israel was interested in that.
- [40:06]
Richard Haass
We're no closer to that than we were 14, 15 months ago. The other thing that was really depressing and distressing was the behavior of the crowd. Here were these three Israeli women being released after 15 months in captivity, and the crowd was just out of control. And think about if you're the average Israeli, I don't care if you're on the far left. And you saw that, the reaction had to be, how in God's name can we ever make peace? Can we ever trust these people living next door to us? I thought that was just a massive, massive setback.
- [40:39]
Ted Danson
Well, it was, Willie. It was a depressing bookend. What happened on October 7, where you had people slaughtering Israelis and calling their parents caught on tape bragging, and their parents being so proud of them for torturing and killing Jews and women being raped and butchered in the streets and dragged around the streets and Palestinians cheering. And there have been a lot of apologists that have been trying to say, oh, no, no, that didn't. No, no, it did happen. And it. Again, as Richard said, that's the thing that was so, so dispiriting was these three young women who had been through hell and back, they're there and the crowds surrounding them, just an absolute mob.
- [41:32]
Jonathan Lemire
Scene, Very, very ugly scene as they got home safely, thank God, eventually. But, Richard, I think this is the question in the middle of this ceasefire if this is the moment when perhaps Hamas had been degraded, humbled in some way because their territory had been completely destroyed effectively by the Israeli military, it appears in some ways the opposite has happened. Which is to say they're telling their people, look what the Israelis did to our homeland. How can we ever make peace with them?
- [42:00]
Richard Haass
Both narratives are coexisting. It's one of the reason that you wouldn't want to bet your life savings on things moving forward. You've got to change the narratives on both sides. Question is, who goes first? Neither side seems particularly willing to go first. It's the reason that, look, the Middle east is the way it is. And yes, you know, we can sit around this table and other tables and lay out what needs to happen, but at the moment, I just, I don't see either side, either Palestinians or Israelis making it happen.
- [42:28]
Ted Danson
Well, tell me, when are the hostages coming out? We got three hostages out. I thought there was some grand peace deal and the hostages were going to come out. By the time Donald Trump was sworn under, there was hell going to be paid. We have three hostages out. When did the other hostages come out?
- [42:42]
Richard Haass
What this all showed, Joe, is that we'll probably get through phase one of this deal with 33 Israeli hostages getting out, over 1500 Palestinian prisoners getting out.
- [42:50]
Ted Danson
When do those hostages, hostages get out?
- [42:52]
Richard Haass
Over the next 40, now 40 days. This be 42 days. The problem is phase two, where the rest of the hostages come out. That requires the Israelis to do two things. To completely withdraw from Gaza and to agree to a permanent end to the war. Given the kinds of scenes we saw the other day, I find it really hard to imagine we get through Facebook.
- [43:12]
Ted Danson
No, it's not going to happen. And Donald Trump has said there's going to be hell to pay if he's president. The hostages are still there. There are two little babies. There are two little babies that are still being held in captivity. And what's going to happen not only to those little babies, but to the Americans that are still there? What's going to happen to the elderly that are still there, that are still captives? And Hamas running around in control? Again, I will say Benjamin Netanyahu, who has been been forced fighting this peace treaty and who had to stand up to the far right extremists in his own government to get this cease fire deal done. Because Donald Trump wanted it done. I'm wondering how much more tenuous his hold on power is this morning after that display in Gaza.
- [44:07]
Richard Haass
It is more tenuous. And Donald Trump's going to have a big decision probably within a month and a half in order to get to phase two and in order to get the Saudi Israeli normalization to happen, which Donald Trump wants to flesh out the Abraham Accords, he's going to have to get this Israeli government to change the narrative first. They're going to have to step up and basically start talking about a day after plan in order to get an Arab stabilization force in Gaza. They're going to have to lay out some type of a roadmap or vision to the Palestinians. That is going to be an interesting afternoon.
- [44:38]
Ted Danson
Well, it's going to have to replace Hamas.
- [44:42]
Richard Haass
Yes, sir.
- [44:42]
Ted Danson
Because that's what we heard all along. Hamas will never run Gaza again. We've said it on this show. Everybody said it. Hamas cannot run Gaza again. And yet Hamas is running Gaza again. And I want to know what's the plan and when is there going to be hell to pay for? As Donald Trump said, if there are still hostages, there are little babies that are still held hostage. They released three. And thank God, thank God above for the three women that were released, but they're little babies that are still there.
- [45:19]
Richard Haass
Every American administration in recent decades has come in wanting to pull back from the Middle east, focus on Russia, focus on China, quite possibly Marco Rubio in second month in the job is going to have to deal with this and basically go into the Oval office and say, Mr. President, if we want phase two to happen, we have to lean on the Israelis to change the conversation. It's very early on.
- [45:41]
Ted Danson
What does that mean?
- [45:42]
Richard Haass
That means introducing some sort of a change in Israeli policy in terms of holding out some political future for the Palestinians enough to get an Arab force to come into Gaza. Otherwise you're going to have two forces in Gaza, Joe. You're going to have Hamas and you're going to have the Israeli Defense Forces. If you want to create a changed reality with, with a third force, you're.
- [46:01]
Ted Danson
Basically saying we're going to have to have a two. You're going to have to have a two state solution. If you want to get the Saudis, the Emiratis and other Arab nations in there, you're going to have to put.
- [46:12]
Richard Haass
It on the table. You're going to have to make it conditional. The Palestinians are going to have to meet all sorts of checkpoints along the way. But yes, you're going to have to lay out some kind of at least an interim vision as a, as a way station to get to that point. This Israeli government is not constituted to do that. So there's going to be a day of reckoning sooner than the new administration is prepared for.
- [46:34]
Joe Scarborough
All right. Yesterday, Trump ordered the Department of Homeland Security to end the humanitarian parole program for migrants fleeing several countries. After the break, we'll talk to former Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson about that. We'll be right back.
- [46:50]
Donnie Deutsch
Hey, this is Jeff Lewis from Radio Andy live and uncensored. Catch me talking with my friends about.
- [46:55]
Ted Danson
My latest obsessions, relationship issues and bodily ailments.
- [46:59]
Donnie Deutsch
With that kind of drama that seems to follow me, you never know what's going to happen.
- [47:03]
Ali Vitale
You can listen to Jeff Lewis Live.
- [47:05]
Jonathan Lemire
At home or anywhere you are.
- [47:07]
Ali Vitale
Download the SiriusXM app for over 425 channels of ad free music, sports, entertainment and more. Subscribe now and get 3 months free offer details apply.
- [47:22]
Donnie Deutsch
The other day I.
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- [48:58]
Joe Scarborough
Okay, welcome back live look at the Capitol at 10 minutes before the top of the hour. One of the executive orders signed by Trump ended a Biden era immigration program that temporarily allowed more than half a million migrants into the US from four troubled nations. Yesterday, the Trump ordered the Department of Homeland Security to end the humanitarian parole program for migrants fleeing Cuba, Haiti, Nicaragua and Venezuela. The program, introduced in 2023, allowed migrants from those four countries to fly into the US if they had a financial sponsor and passed security checks. Under the program, those migrants could stay in the US for up to two years unless they found other ways to stay. Long term, it's unclear what will happen to the hundreds of thousands of migrants currently living in the US who entered the country through the program.
- [49:58]
Ted Danson
Well, again, more of what Donald Trump promised. So no one should be shocked by this. What's interesting about these countries, though, these are countries I would guess the new Secretary of State would welcome refugees from, from these communist countries, from Cuba, from Venezuela, with just an absolute thug for a dictator there, from Nicaragua. So I guess again, none of us are surprised that he's doing what he said he was gonna do. These countries, though, very interesting because these are the refugees that Republicans usually embrace from communist countries.
- [50:41]
Woody Harrelson
The types of refugees that Ronald Reagan and embraced.
- [50:43]
Ted Danson
Right.
- [50:44]
Woody Harrelson
So the suspension of the program, there'll be a lawsuit over that. There'll be a lawsuit over birthright citizenship. There'll be a lawsuit over suspending asylum. You know, if it's not broke, don't fix it. For three years, we had astronomically high numbers of illegal border crossings on the southern border. The Biden administration finally came to there's a right way and a wrong way to cross the border and encouraged people to use the app to apply the right way. The numbers of crossings went down dramatically. And so what they were doing in the last year, in the last six months was actually, was actually working. It's not necessarily a long term fix because of the underlying push factors. One of the many executive orders that I think is going to backfire is this remain in Mexico executive order.
- [51:38]
Ted Danson
Why is that to tell?
- [51:41]
Woody Harrelson
It takes two to do that dance.
- [51:43]
Ted Danson
Right?
- [51:43]
Woody Harrelson
You can't just simply unilaterally decide that a Guatemalan has to stay in Mexico. Mexico has to agree to the program.
- [51:50]
Ted Danson
Right.
- [51:51]
Woody Harrelson
And I suspect what this administration does not appreciate, a large reason why the numbers have gone down so significantly is because the Mexican government is doing more on their southern border with Central America to turn these people around. If you all of a sudden unilaterally say to Mexico, you're keeping these people, it makes it less likely that they're going to cooperate with us. The number's going to go up.
- [52:15]
Donnie Deutsch
And on the subject of refugees, we should note Reuters reporting that nearly over 1,660 Afghans cleared by the US government to resettle in the US including family of active duty personnel. Active duty US military personnel had their flights canceled under President Trump's order suspending U.S. refugee programs. So there, Richard, their fate is in limbo as well. People who have taken real chances for the US Government weigh in on that. And also your thoughts on Trump's inauguration speech yesterday and its, frankly, lack of foreign policy discussion, except for bringing back Manifest Destiny.
- [52:50]
Richard Haass
Look, the Afghan decision is living in the Gulf. It's immoral. These are people who are totally at risk because they work closely with the Americans when we were there for 20 years. And to suddenly leave them in limbo. It's not even limbo. They're just physically going to be and politically going to be vulnerable, which is.
- [53:08]
Ted Danson
By the way, exactly what Donald Trump supporters said about what Joe Biden did after exiting Afghanistan.
- [53:16]
Richard Haass
You know, Jay, just one thing. What Jay was talking about, excuse me, Mr. Secretary, was talking about was, you know, here we are, we're, we are threatening tariffs against Mexico. We are calling the Gulf of Mexico and now the Gulf of America. At the same time, we want Mexico to cooperate with us on immigration and have asylum applicants be able to stay in Mexico. It's almost as if the speech was written by committee and people didn't look at different parts. Speech as a whole, let me just say, you know, in addition to what George Will was writing about, correctly, just the lack of grace notes. Would it have taken so much to have one nod towards Joe Biden and say thank you for what? You. All your efforts to bring the hostages back out of the Middle East. Just one nod, one effort to bring the country together. This was a speech to the base. Nothing about reconciliation or bringing the country together on foreign policy. You know, no mention of our enemies, no mention of our allies. What there was was mention of William McKinley, manifest destiny. You know, it's easy to make jokes about Mexico and Greenland and the Panama. And by the way, there was a threat we will take back the Panama Canal.
- [54:22]
Donnie Deutsch
Right.
- [54:23]
Richard Haass
Misstatement of reality. The Chinese aren't running it. The United States isn't being discriminated against. What really worries me about this is there's, if you add it all up, there's a pattern here. It looks as though we're saying we've got a special role in the Americas. Might makes right we're going to control the Americas. You know who was really happy to hear this speech? Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping. Why? It sets up A world where the big boys run their neighborhoods. That means they've got their sphere of influence in Europe, that is Ukraine. Xi Jinping's hearing this, going, oh, good, this means I've got Taiwan. What was very worrisome about this, Trump seems to wanted to throw out the order that we've had that's worked pretty well for 80 years and basically substitute a different order. So I actually take all these talks about the canal in Mexico and Greenland and the rest. I take it seriously because there's something afoot here.
- [55:13]
Ted Danson
Again, though, this is something that he's talked about for decades. Why is the United States spending all this money overseas? We should spend this money at home. Why are we defending, you know, Europe or Japan? Why aren't they footing their bill? And again, for many of us, that makes absolutely no sense, because America has thrived in a way that no other country in history has thrived under this. This approach where we actually are allies with Europe and Japan, and between us, we have over 60, 65%, maybe 70% of the world's wealth. It's worked pretty well. But you are right, it's almost like going back to the Monroe Doctrine, where we'll take care of our neighborhood. Putin, you take care of your neighborhood. Xi, you take care of your neighborhood. But I just don't know. I don't know that Republicans follow that. Mr. Secretary, in the Senate, we were.
- [56:23]
Woody Harrelson
Talking earlier about two Americas. There's a disconnect between what Donald Trump declares and says and basic reality. I remember eight years ago when I was watching his inaugural address sitting there as Designated Survivor in my undisclosed location, and he started talking about American carnage. I think, what is he talking about? I had the same reaction George W. Bush did. Man, this is some weird stuff. And yesterday, he just simply declared, this is the golden age. This is the golden age of America right now. Well, is it the golden age of America to deny asylum to a lot of desperate women and children trying to get out of Venezuela and Cuba? Is it the golden age to rewrite the Constitution, to deny birthright citizenship? I don't think so. That's not what this country is.
- [57:16]
Ted Danson
Well, the only thing I will say and write it down right now, Americans want it out of Afghanistan until we get out of Afghanistan. And the Taliban had the country in about 24 hours. Americans wanted out of Iraq, including myself. After 10 years, seven years, we got out of Iraq and we created a void that ISIS filled for several horrifying years. And everybody's saying they want to come home, but those people maybe they don't remember what happened on 9 11. But I will say that's going to last up until the moment where there is a catastrophic event because we are isolationists again. And when that happens, Americans will throw their arms up in the air and say, how could our leaders in Washington and have let us down again? It's just, again, this is not sustainable 100%.
- [58:22]
Richard Haass
What seems to be missing is just very quickly two points. One is that all we're spending on the world is less as a percentage of our economy is less than half our Cold War average.
- [58:32]
Joe Scarborough
Right?
- [58:32]
Richard Haass
Less than half. Last I checked, we did pretty well during the 50s and 60s. So the idea that our problems are at home or because of what we're doing abroad is, is simply not true. Last Donald Trump seems to be missing the point that we do things in the world when we help our allies, we're helping ourselves. The idea that foreign policy is only about costs and not benefits seems to be missing. And you're right. The day will come when people will understand the costs of not helping.
- [58:57]
Joe Scarborough
Richard Haass, thank you very much.
- [58:59]
Ted Danson
I hope it doesn't, but history shows us we cannot hide from history.
- [59:05]
Joe Scarborough
Former Secretary of Homeland Security Jeh Johnson, thank you as well.
- [59:10]
Ted Danson
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