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If you could hear love, what would it sound like? Son, can we talk about your drinking? Yeah, Dad, I think we should. Helping those closest to you think about their excessive drinking. Maybe that's what love sounds like. More@rethinkthedrink.com An OHA initiative. Hey, friends. Ted Danson here, and I want to let you know about my new podcast. It's called Where Everybody Knows yous Name with me, Ted Danson, and Woody Harrelson. Sometimes doing this podcast is a chance for me and my good bud Woody to reconnect after Cheers wrap 30 years ago. Plus, we're introducing each other to the friends we've met since, like Jane Fonda, Conan O'Brien, Eric Andre, Mary Steenburgen, my wife, and flee from the Red Hot Chili Peppers. And trust me, it's always a great hang when Woody's there. So why wait? Listen to where everybody knows your name. Wherever you get your podcasts. Donald Trump has been named Time's Person of the Year because no person on earth has taken up more of our damn time. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It's Monday, December 16th. We have a lot to get to this morning, including what's being called the ongoing pressure campaign from the president elect's team and his allies to get controversial cabinet picks confirmed. Meanwhile, Defense Secretary nominee Pete Hegseth appears to have swayed some senators, but Trump's selection to lead America's intelligence agencies seems to be having a more difficult time winning over lawmakers. We'll dig into all of this. Also ahead, we'll go through the diplomatic developments out of the Middle east as US Officials are now in direct contact with the Syrian rebel group that ousted Bashar al Assad. And we'll bring you the latest reporting on these drone sightings that are spreading across several states, as well as the criticism to the federal government's response. What is really going on? I mean, come on, Jonathan Lemire, you're going to tell us what's at the bottom of this? Because, I mean, I don't know, there seems to be a lot of panic out there. You have elected leaders going, look at all of the drones. Look at all of the drones. And they're like pointing up at Orion. Yeah. I mean, so it's interesting. Yeah. Former Governor Hogan of Maryland is this weekend identified what he thought were drones. And those who saw his pictures on social media quickly noted, no, that was just a constellation. Oh, God. That's all right. But at least there's this crazy back and forth. And I mean, it's, it's Pretty, pretty insane. Typical government, though, if they could just put out a coherent, honest message about what's going on. But the fact of the matter is they probably don't. They seem like they just don't know or they know and are completely unwilling to pass that information on to the public and are causing people to just lose their minds over it. Yeah, we certainly didn't get a very clear answer from the White House podium last week. I will say that one of the lawmakers at the forefront of this new Senator Andy Kim in New Jersey who went out with patrols trying to figure it out. He's calling for more clarity from the government. But he says that the more he's looked at it and talked to aviation experts, he thinks most of these are actually just airplanes. Airplanes and not any sort of. They're planes for him. Why is he the only elected official who's out there saying, yes, I'm looking into it. I'm actively doing something right. The Wall Street Journal has an editorial on this talking about how this might be playing into the lack of faith in government institutions. We'll see. We'll cover this and ask all the right questions. With us here to do just that. The President Richard of the Council on Fore Foreign relations. Drones or UFOs? Is this like Close Encounters? Those are only two choices. Look at this. Those are your two choices. Well, we got, we got the guy who will know. Former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, retired four star Navy admiral and also drone follower and UFO watcher James Trevitus Admiral. What's going on up there over the sky? What I was watching was the Army Navy game, which will now be called forever the Navy Army Game. Yeah, exactly. Good answer. Co founder and CEO of Axios is with us. Jim Vande Hei as well. Great team to start off the week. So let's dive right in. As some of President elect Donald Trump's controversial cabinet picks work to win over members of Congress, Republican Senator Thom Tillis is warning that the pressure campaign to push through nominees could backfire. Speaking on Fox News yesterday, Senator Tillis criticized those who are threatening to fund primary challenges against against Republican senators who've been critical of Trump's picks. What's amazing to me is how people, we're not even in the new administration and we haven't even seen the background checks, which I know the administration is sending our way. So there's a lot of information that needs to be gathered. And these folks who are making primary challenges running ads, they seem more like political opportunists than me. Than thoughtful members of the Republican Party. A lot of this are third parties that are making money from the fundraising campaigns to put some ads in there. But double digit percentages are going into their pockets. Here's what I would tell them. If they really support President Trump's nominees, they should stand down and let the nominees win on their own merits. And I think most of them will. Members are not really swayed by these. If anything, they could create a structural problem for future nominees if they overreach. Cash Patel, who I'm working with because he's on my committee of jurisdiction, is going to enjoy solid Republican support on the Senate floor. And coming out of the committee, I think that Pete Hedseth is going to have to go to the committee and answer some questions about organizational experience, some of his past marriages, those sorts of things. All of that's fair game when you're running for a cabinet or sub cabinet position. And Senator Susan Collins, who has expressed concern with some of Trump's picks, was asked about the pressure campaign last week. I wonder, what do you think of the pressure campaign from the Trump allies to try to get you to toe the line on these nominees? Is it effective? No. I've taken many, many difficult oaths over the years that I've been privileged to serve in the Senate. Jim Vanderha. You know, actually, Tom, tell us this. All right. So many people, what you see, whether it's here or whether you see it on social media, so many people are just out there. It's the grift. They want to say, hey, we're fighting for your side. Contribute here. And it's just, it's, unfortunately, that's just part of the grift that's out there. But in this case, especially when you're dealing with the Senate and Donald Trump's not even president yet and there are, there are all these threats that are flying around there and we're going to get them and we're going to shove it down their throat and we're going to this and we're going to that. I mean, you talk four senators and you probably lost Lisa Murkowski and Mitch McConnell on most of them, Susan Collins perhaps on some. What, what do you think about Tom Tillis, his remarks that this could backfire? I think both things are true. Right. I think senators are really annoyed by it. There's a ton of pressure. This is unprecedented in a transition to power to have people running ads, people already threatening to have a primary challenger putting money into packs to do just that. So it is annoying to the Senators, but at the same time, it's effective. Look what happened with Jodi Ernst in Iowa. She was so opposed to the defense secretary nominee, she was telling her colleagues about it. She was making not even very cryptic statements publicly about her opposition. And then she gets pummeled on X, gets pummeled in conservative media. A lot of money is spent back home and suddenly she has to say, wait a second, maybe this could actually after all. And so I think that pressure campaign is not going to abate. And I think a lot of senators, especially those who want to stick around for a long time, they are persuadable when that pressure comes. They do fear a well funded primary challenge. They do want to endear themselves with the president elect. And so I think that dynamic is going to be only intensified because there's several nominees that you've talked about a ton on the show that are very controversial, that senators, when you talk to them privately, have deep, deep, deep reservations about. Yet they, they might hold those deep reservations, plug their nose and say, whatever, I want to go with the President because I don't want the consequences. Yeah, I just heard something from Tom Tillis there. Pretty, pretty shocking. So I think most Republicans are going to be okay with Cash Patel, a guy who has promised to throw journalists in jail. Let's just full stop here again. And there was a New York Times article saying, well, because Republicans have some problems with the FBI, then yes, Cash Patel is maybe the guy that they'll be supporting. There are 1,000 people you could put in to actually clean up the FBI, to overhaul the parts of the FBI that need to be overhauled. That doesn't have an enemies list, Tom Tillis, that doesn't have an enemies list of like 60, 62 people and hasn't promised to go after them in power and hasn't said, yes, we're going to go out and we're going to throw members of the press in jail. And yet Tom Till is like, yeah, you know, Republican. That's, that is, that is shocking that again that, you know, they're still looking at Hegseth and they should. And I've heard like you still some problems for him. Tulsi Gabbard had a terrible week last week, but Cash Patel is like, oh, yeah, you know what? Yeah, the FBI has done some things that are wrong. So you're going to put somebody in again has an enemies list of over 60 people that he said he's going after and said he's going to arrest members of the media that didn't follow along with Donald Trump's 2020 Stop the Steal conspiracy campaign. Are the Republicans really going to allow the next FBI director to be a person who has said that, who has done that to this point? Patel has really benefited from the spotlight being elsewhere. Gates, Hegseth, Tulsi, Gabbard, and how that Republicans, even if they haven't had to take a vote yet, but even just signaling their opposition to some, they feel like, well, I can only even do that for so many of these candidates. And Patel has flown under the radar. And that's gonna continue likely this week because Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Goes to the Hill today and he's going to rightly take a lot of the spotlight there. So Patel has more quietly gone through this process. He's met with a lot of Republicans. But you're so right. There are Republicans and there are Democrats, too, who feel like there might be some changes needed at the FBI. But Cash Patel is not an agent of reform. He's an agent of retribution. He's in that job explicitly because he channels what Donald Trump wants. It's long been said that Patel, no ideology of his own. It's simply whatever Donald Trump wants him to do. And he has an enemies list of his own that's in his book. He wrote it out. As well as someone who is going to take his cues from who Trump has said for months now. He wants to have retribution against whether that's his own, members of his first administration, lawmakers, members of January 6th committee, members of the media. And Patel has shown no hesitation in signaling his support for that. And at least to this moment, Republicans on the Hill seem okay with it. He's promised to do it. He's promised to do it. He's promised. It's not that he's signaled he's promised to do it. And I can say, Richard, not only what does this say to other countries across the globe, what does this say to the markets about the rule of law? There's a reason why our stock market is the envy of the world, or a economy is the envy of the world. There's a reason why people are leaving the London Stock Exchange and coming to the United States. There's a reason why businesses from all over the world are coming to the United States. It's the rule of law. You don't have to worry about things moving and changing and the rules and the laws changing depending on who's in office. Somebody like Cash Patel, who said, I have an enemy's list of 62 people, and I promise you I'm going to arrest journalists and I'm going to get them criminally or civilly, whatever it takes. That's Orban. That's exactly what Orban and Putin has said they're going to do. Let's look at their economies. I wonder how that would work for the United States of America once that happened the first time. Two thoughts. Rule of law is the proverbial oxygen of a society and an economy and you don't notice it's missing until it's missing, by which point it's a little bit late. So it is, it's central, it's foundational to all that we are. Second of all, one would have thought if you were the FBI director, you've got enough real challenges on your hand. We still have terrorism to worry about. Indeed, we could have more terrorism to worry about given what's going on, say in Syria potentially. Last I checked, we have serious crime problems in this country, last I checked. You know, we go down and down and down corruption issues. So I would think the FBI director has his hands full without going after journalists. When you want somebody in the FBI that actually knew how to run the FBI and actually knew, had experience on how to do all of these things. Well, I think that's one of the common threads here with this, with Hegseth and others. Put aside character issues and the rest, it's just a question of whether they have the necessary background. These are enormous management. And by the way, there's no member of the Senate that thinks Pete Hegseth has what it takes to run the biggest, most powerful, most complicated, most byzantine bureaucracy on planet earth. No body, no Republican in the Senate believes that. So how does he get 50 votes? That, to me is what these hearings need to be more about. Quite honestly. I understand, you know, the personal character issues and the rest. What I actually think these hearings ought to be about is whether this person has the qualifications, the backgrounds, the experience. Yes. The judgment. I get it. To do these big, important, powerful jobs. And so if you're thinking like this incoming president who is often self interested and to him a strong economy is the definition of strength to him. And I think the point that you've just made is one of the more important ones is how does this ultimately impact the success of Donald Trump and the strength of Donald Trump? If destabilization of the rule of law, whether it's through the Department of Defense or the FBI, hurts the economy, ultimately that's not good for the incoming president. It's terrible for the economy, it's terrible for the stock market for America. For America. It's terrible for democracy. Something. It's something that we tried to say throughout the campaign on this show. We said, okay, yes, yes, this is a challenge to American democracy. It's also a challenge to American capitalism if you destabilize constitutional norms and you destabilize the rule of law. So Pete Hegseth's lack of experience for a position as significant as Defense Secretary is raising questions about his views on the US Military and its role at home and abroad. Peter Bergen, a national security analyst for cnn, went through Hegseth's book the War on Warriors, which was published in June. Bergen writes, the book is an odd mix of slogans and unsupported assertions. Purportedly Marxist and woke US military, it is 228 pages long and has no footnotes and few facts to back up its claims, some of which are dubious at best. Bergen continues, Hegseth spends a chapter of his book on dumping on the trans troops in the US Military, whom he portrays as a key plank of the Pentagon's purportedly woke agenda. Bergen points out that Hegseth's writings about trans troops is a side red herring. Even using a high end estimate, only about 0.5% of service members are trans people. Hegseth's book is also silent on the big issues that a future Secretary of Defense might have to face, such as the Chinese possibly invading Taiwan. Meanwhile, the New Republic outlines Hegseth's prediction that the military may have to mobilize against U.S. citizens in a civil war. And here it is. That comes from his 2020 book, American Crusade. In it, Hegseth writes, America will decline and die. A national divorce will ensue. Very patriotic. Outnumbered freedom lovers will fight back. The military and police, both bastions of freedom loving patriots, will be forced to make a choice. It will not be good. Yes, there will be some form of civil war. In another section, Hegseth writes that our present moment is much like the 11th century. We do not want to fight. But like our fellow Christians 1,000 years ago, we must arm yourself metaphorically, intellectually, physically. Our fight is not with guns yet. So, Admiral Stravitas, there's so many things I don't even know that are so effing. It's early in the morning. Give moms and dads across the east coast of break. Yeah, you just don't need to do it. That's so crazy. But what is so disturbing, especially for those concerned about the implementation of the Insurrection act, is you have a guy here In a book that is saying that America is on decline and dying. That's a lie. It's a total abstinence. Absolute liar. Military stronger than any time since 45 relative to the rest of the world. Our economy the envy of the world. I was overseas this weekend. I can tell you, everybody wringing their hands asking why they can't be more like America. Are our allies across Europe just. Just looking at our strength economically right now and just beyond themselves. I mean America economically stronger than it has been in such a long time relative to the rest of. And yet we have a guy who wants to be head of the DOD talking about America dying, America collapsing. America in the 11th century. This is the Crusades. There is going to be a civil war. The military and the police are going to take up arms against its own people. What do you say to the Republican senators and the Democratic senators that are going to have to vote on this nominee? I'm going to pick up three threads. One is the personal character issues. I think those are very very important. I think more to follow on that as the FBI report comes out. I thought significant that secretary Designated Hegseth indicated supposedly to Lindsey Graham that he is going to allow the woman who he allegedly sexually assaulted to be free of her non disclosure. All of that is going to come out. Character matters. Number two. What you just unpackaged, Joe, it's the policy questions. I agree with your assessment of all that. I want to add one that didn't come out vividly there and it's his comments about women. Women in combat, women in the armed forces. He's trying to kind of walk back from that. But the gist of his commentary thus far has been women are not additive to the mission of the Department of Defense. Look, I commanded thousands of women in combat starting in 1993 when I was captain of a destroyer with and crew that had both men and women. I've commanded women in carrier strike groups under my command in Afghanistan and US Southern Command. Women at the Naval Academy we talked about the Army Navy game. There are 22 guys on the field. There are 8,000 people in the stands from Annapolis and West Point. One third of them are women. So that basket of policy issues but the ones you described. And I want to hear from him full throated support for women in combat in the military because that's reality. You can't man 100% of the force with 50% of the population. That's a recruiting challenge no one will overtake. Yeah. And Elise, I find it hard to believe that Jodi Ernst, who understands about women in combat, who understands about sexual abuse, who understands all the things, things that she understands. There's never been a nominee more lined up for her to vote against. Is she really going to fold on all of her principles, on everything she has fought for on the Armed Services Committee regarding the protection of women in and out of uniform because a couple of ads are run against her? And what can I say now? What could he say that would unsay? Nothing that he can do to unsay what he has said. 16% of the US military women I have embedded with female marines and helmet who have been under fire, women in combat, they handle it just fine. They handle it just as fine as the men. The fact that we want this retrograde throwback, I don't get the balance between to the 11th century, the Crusades. It used to be like, oh, they want to go back to the 1950s. He wants to go back to the 11th situation. No, I don't get to how do you wrote it? How do you have Elon on the one hand saying that our tech is so outdated and antiquated and then you have a defense nominee who wants to go back to their crusades? It makes no sense. All right. We're going to take a 90 second break. And on the other side, we're going to check in with Ryan Nobles live at the Capitol to get the latest on this. Also ahead in a new landmark case, the attorney general of Texas is suing a New York doctor for prescribing the abortion pill to a North Texas woman. We'll talk about the implications of this new lawsuit and the legal battle it sets up between two states. Plus, NBC's Matt Bradley joins us live from Damascus with an inside look at a drug lab in Syria that helped fund Bashar Al Assad's regime. MORNING JOE is back in 90 seconds. UNHCR, the UN refugee agency, responds to emergencies and provides long term solutions for refugees. In more than 130 countries, including Ukraine, Syria and Afghanistan. UNHCR supports people forced to flee from war, violence and persecution at their greatest moment of need. During the winter, people forced to flee are faced with increased hardships and costs. As temperatures drop, families struggle to meet basic needs like heating their shelters, buying warm clothes and cooking hot meals. Refugees and displaced people are struggling to survive like never before. Funding shortfalls and rising food prices forced UNHCR to dial back its life saving aid to vulnerable families around the world. Donor support is crucial to address the need for essentials. For millions of families without sufficient funding, life saving assistance will be threatened, cutting off a vital lifeline for refugees and displaced people. 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The constitutional right to abortion has been stolen and politicians in 47 states have introduced bills that would block people from getting the sexual and reproductive care they need. Planned Parenthood knows that equitable access to health care, including safe, legal abortion, is a human right. Right now, Planned Parenthood needs your help to protect access to healthcare. Donate today by visiting plannedparenthood.org protect hey, I'm Yara Shahidi and I'm the host of the Optimist Project. This is the podcast that asks what gives you hope. Each week I sit down with change makers you may or may not know from comedy, music, academia and more to uncover what inspires them to create a better tomorrow. Join us as we find out ways that we can cultivate optimism in our own lives. You can find the Optimist Project wherever you get your podcasts. Don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode. Talk at some of the other headlines making news this morning. A former FBI informant is now admitting he may made up a claim that President Biden and his son Hunter accepted millions of dollars in bribes from Ukraine. I'm shocked. Alexander Smirnov is now pleading guilty to a range of federal charges. Yeah, back in 2020, Smirnov spread the brazen lie that the owner of the Ukrainian energy company Burisma had arranged to pay $5 million in Brazil to both President Biden and his son. The claim was leaked to Republicans who made the lie the centerpiece of their now defunct effort to impeach the president. I mean, Arnold the pig tried think about this to tell Comer over and over again, but there were so many. Anyone else covering this again? And they kept saying the lies would come and they would call the lies Smoke. Everybody kept lying. So, oh, there's smoke about this. And it all leads back to Joe Biden getting a payoff. There's a reason there was never fire, because they were lies. Yeah, their key witnesses were going to be someone who now is admitted to making up the whole thing or international fugitive. You know, these are people with deep, deep credibility issues. They were never able to provide any evidence, but that didn't matter. Republicans didn't care. They didn't care. There was never any attempt to get evidence. They said, well, it didn't look good. And they would have the hearings with explicit efforts to politically damage the President. All right. Governor Ron DeSantis is facing a choice in Florida. Either appoint Donald Trump's daughter in law to the U.S. senate or risk the potential backlash from MAGA Republicans. Lara Trump has openly expressed interest in replacing Senator Marco Rubio, who is set to become Secretary of State. According to the Washington Post, the president elect himself has communicated that as well. DeSantis is considering his future too, including a possible administration roll, the Senate in 2026 or even another run for president. We'll be following that. And the Wall Street Journal reports Apple is planning a series of major iPhone design changes in a new bid to revive growth. People familiar with the company's plans tell the Journal that starting next year, Apple plans to introduce an iPhone that will be thinner than the current models. Is that better? Those same people said the company is also planning to unveil a foldable iPhone. Okay, can we talk less? What thinner? Like, I guess the young people will love it, but I like like a walking typewriter. Don't you like the foldable? No, I need to see and it needs to be substantial. And these cases are a joke. And on top of it, if you change the plug again, your rip off game is over. That is such a rip off. You have ripped off billions of people. I don't have that problem with my flip flop phone. Let's turn back now to the discussions we were having before the break on Donald Trump's Cabinet picks. NBC News Caprio correspondent Ryan Nobles joins us now. You know, Ryan, it's kind of hard to follow all of this because you never really know exactly what the senators are thinking. They'll say one thing like, we're going to let the process move forward, which means they're going to let gravity take care of itself. Hopefully on Hegzith, many of them are thinking, but it does appear that last week Tulsi Gabbard had a pretty rough week. Tell us about it. Yeah, I think you're right, Joe. The one thing I know for sure is that what I'm being told is that there aren't going to be any more early exits for any of these nominees. There's not another Matt Gaetz in this crop that senators seem resigned to the idea that they've got to let this process play itself out. They've got to let the hearings take place, they got to let the background checks take place. And then if other things pop up along that process, excuse me, if the hearing process becomes a disaster for any of these nominees, then perhaps that could be the situation that forces some of them out of this particular effort to win confirmation. You know, Tulsi Gabbard's situation is a unique one in that the problems that she has with many of these senators are national security ones. They're ones that can't necessarily be discussed in an open setting. And I've been wondering, you know, just how her hearing could potentially take place. She would appear in front of the Intelligence Committee as she's she's up to become the director of National Intelligence, and they may want to talk to her about some classified information. You know, there may be something having to do with these meetings that she's had, the meeting she had in Syria with Bashar al Assad. They could have questions about her past statements on Russia that they may want to ask in a classified setting. And that may be something the public is not privy to, and it could either make or break her nomination as a result. But what we are being told is that these meetings that she's had, they haven't gotten good answers to a lot of these questions that senators have about her past statements and about these meetings that she's had. So there are a number of different ways that this process could play itself out. And as you guys have already talked about this morning, there are so many of these controversial nominees, but there are also so many no votes that each one of these senators can take and then still allow their political future to be preserved that you have to imagine that most, if not all of them get through and there may be only one or two more sacrificial lambs that the Senate is willing to take on. And I think what they're trying to figure out right now is who among this group of controversial nominees is worth extending political capital on to deny them taking on these very important positions that they're up for. All right. NBC News Capital correspondent Ryan Noble, thank you very much. I mean, one of those is going to be Tulsi Gabbert I can't believe they're smart people in the intel committee that have spent their entire adult life trying to build out the intel committee that's going to allow Tulsi Gabbard to get through, especially after the events in Syria. What do you think? Well, one, the idea that she now has what, secret information about or classified stuff about Syria. I think it's kind of late. Bashar al Assad, the last I checked, is living in a dasha somewhere outside of Moscow. Yeah, I think you don't need to ask her about classified stuff. You could just test her on her general knowledge of international relations, what's going on in the world. And I think the depth or the lack there of will, shall we say, become clear now. Hey, Jim vanderhei, I, as I said earlier, I was, I had a busy weekend talking to business and political leaders in New York and London, and they all have the same question, who's going to be in control in Trump's inner circle? Because that's going to move on tariffs, that's on how immigration is going to be carried out. That's how, how a thousand different policy questions are going to be asked. And you have, you have actually a report on this, and it is the divide. And this is, again, this is what's vexed business leaders on both sides of the Atlantic, political leaders on both sides of the Atlantic, thought leaders on both sides of the Atlantic. Who is going to have his ear the most, the creators or the destroyers? Tell us about Joe, I think you understand Trump's mind as well as anyone. I think their intention right now. There is the creators are the folks you're seeing named the economic jobs, the energy jobs, the AI jobs where they feel like they can juice economic growth, try to keep jobless rates low, and then keep the stock market soaring. If he does that, he feels like he'll have a very successful presidency. He'd be popular and he'd get sort of what he wants out of the White House. But at the same time, all the people you talked about earlier, all these people who are up for Cabinet jobs that are controversial, they would fall into that destroyer category. And those are people that are brought in specifically because of their loyalty, partly to do retribution, partly to gut the very agency that they're being put in charge of. And I think that's the reason you have such jarring moments with Trump. I think you're gonna see these wild swings between the two of them, you know, tying all of your stories together today. Go think about that. Drones in the sky Right. Like just right now, you have a ton of people sitting on X who think that it's UFOs or think that it's the Iranians are ready to wage war on America. You've got others paying no attention to it. You have the president elect saying maybe we should just shoot them down. Then you talk about Hegset, that Defense Secretary worrying about a woke military or worrying about trans in the military, really the biggest topic, and you have smarter people on the set today than me on this that the military needs to worry about. That the next defense Secretary has to worry about is drones. Or it's related to drones. It's how do you move as quickly as possible to a type of warfare that's waged in space base, with satellites, with drones, with new technologies less dependent on boots on the ground, much more dependent on getting the best and the brightest into government to figure out how do we take this advantage that we have over China, meaning we created AI, we have a big lead over them on ships and a lot of the thinking that goes into AI. How do we take that and make sure that our military is even more dominant in the next generation? So when you get right bogged down in these small ball little things, you lose sight of the big picture where we do have an enormous advantage going in. Well, you talk about like this trans issue again, like 0.5% of the military right now. Trans, if that. And yet this is his obsession. We have a possible world war breaking out in the Middle East. We have a possible world war breaking out in Eastern Europe with North Korean troops down there. And I do want to follow up on something you said because this is something I picked up overseas, the obsession. And we're not talking about the drones over Jersey. We're talking about the drones over the front between the Ukrainians and the Russians. And the things I heard this weekend about what those drones are doing and how far advanced they are moving is nothing short of extraordinary. It is making so many defense systems almost obsolete right now, Jim. And you're exactly right. We either obsess on that, not the 11th century Crusades. We either obsess on bringing some order to the Middle east and not on 0.5%. Who's in the military right now are. We get left behind by people who don't know how to run the Pentagon. It's astounding. And I will say this is one of the things that I kept hearing over and over again, you guys are ahead of all of us. You've lapped us 12 times. But the world's moving on. Are you really going to be focusing on the 11th century, on civil war? I mean, that's the question that was repeatedly asked. Yeah, I mean, it's a legitimate question to ask because it does go to what you said, like for any dogging of America during the campaign or doing it in books, like it just defies the logic on the ground. We have so many built in advantages right now. And listen, on the good side, like if you could get the Pentagon focused on what it needs to focus on and I think it's a good thing that you suddenly have really smart entrepreneurs like Marc Andreessen or Elon Musk thinking about government and trying to apply some of their mind share to it. Having the smartest people who built these technologies, who understand these technologies, thinking about it and advising the President could be a net very positive thing. If you structure your administration to make sure that you're focusing on how do you make the advantages we have bigger and bolder so that we create a bigger gap between us and China. That's what victory would be, that's what success for the country would be. But when you get into grievance or you get into retribution, that's the type of stuff that does rattle markets, it does rattle world leaders, it does rattle ultimately the public. Maybe the public is just too disoriented right now, but the public will see this. And the public doesn't want people jailing reporters. It doesn't want you doing things that defy institutional normal. And so we'll see how it plays out. It is important to remember the market is at 45,000 right now. You have people who believe, like for instance, Warren Buffett, that it's overvalued. You have top leaders, hedge fund leaders, starting to take their money out of the markets because they fear the volatility coming up. That's why when you start talking about having these people ill equipped, these people seeking retribution, these people that aren't up to the task you start. And I will say tariffs too. There's going to be a real battle, I think internally over tariffs because Donald Trump doesn't want to see the stock market, which many people already believe is artificially inflated, drop 10% in a day. And trust me, where it's sitting right now, if the moves are wrong, yeah, it's going to drop 10% of the day. Last night the FT dropped an article. They're going to slow down interest rate cuts because they fear the inflationary pressures of the incoming administration. Now I will say he's he's put somebody that the street really respects and treasury, he's got some other smart people around there, they can manage this. But I have a feeling the message is going to be steady as she goes or else you're going to have simmer down, you know, wishing for the good old days. And I am dead serious of Joe Biden's 45,000 Dow industrial. That FT article was really important because it showed a consensus that the inflationary pressures are going to grow, which among other things sets up a clash between the chairman of the Federal Reserve and the new president. And that is also something investors and others will not want to see. There you go. Head down. Axios co founder Jim Vande Hei, thank you very much. Thank you, Jim. Go Packers. Man, they're looking good. One more note if I could about President elect Trump's picks for his administration. He announced over the weekend Richard Grenell as the special missions envoy during Trump's first term, Grinnell served as U.S. ambassador to Germany and the actual acting Director of National Intelligence. The New York Times describes Grinnell this way, quote, a loyalist known for unbridled social media attacks on Mr. Trump's perceived critics and many others. Mr. Grenell led a shambolic effort to. That's a very word by the way. The New York Times shambolic use it more often. The 2020 election results in Nevada after Mr. Trump's loss there and he has lobbied assiduously for a diplomatic job in the new administration. So Jonathan and Lear, right after Donald Trump was elected, we heard the possibility of Rick Grenell being secretary of state, some other high up positions. This obviously not what he was looking for. What happened? Yeah, there was a lot of Grenell openly campaigned and that may have worked against him here. He did serve in the first administration. He was a loyalist during the four years when Trump was out of office, helped the campaign. He, he goes a social media attack dog to say the least. But he wanted Secretary of state another really high profile job. There's some really good reporting out there about how he denies being personally involved, but those close to him were paying people to lobby on his behalf like he posts. You pay a couple thousand dollars to post this or post that. Grinnell himself has separated himself from that effort, but it didn't work. It rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. And even though Steve Bannon and some really influential figures in MAGA world wanted Grinnell to get a top boast, a top position, he has to settle for this. All right, let's move to the Fall of Bashar al Assad in Syria, exposing the luxury lifestyle of the country's former dictator and the brutal torture system set up in his prisons. We're getting a look inside now at a Syrian drug lab that produced an amphetamine like stimulant that helped fuel the Assad regime. Let's bring in NBC News international correspondent Matt Bradley who joins us live from Damascus. Matt, you went inside the lab, what did you find? Yeah, Mika. Well, it's just another signal of one of the pillars of this regime having fallen, you know, in these 14 year long civil war. There was no foreign currency that the regime could use in order to prop itself up. Obviously, business went bust throughout the country. They didn't have any cash and they needed drugs to give to their soldiers. So this was not only fueling the fight financially, but also psychologically. It was a really sinister move and it flooded the entire region with its multiple wars with drugs. Here's our report. Throughout Syria, celebrations for the fall of Assad and the pillars that once propped up his regime. Like this factory on the outskirts of Damascus. It wasn't so long ago that this place was making potato chips. And then the old regime took it over and turned it into a factory for narcotics. As Syria's economy collapsed during its nearly 14 year long civil war, the Assad regime relied on drugs as a source of foreign currency. This is Captagon. It's basically like methamphetamine. It would be just as much at home at a nightclub as on a battlefield. Ahmed, a rebel field commander, told me this industry destroyed a whole generation just so Assad can earn as much money as possible. Whoa. All right, so he's saying all of this is ready for export. This is Captagon. It's hidden inside this, you know, fake box to basically transport what looks like wires. But it's all drugs fueling the Assad regime's narco state. During our visit, the original factory owner turned up. Like many Syrians, he's just returned from exile abroad. So he says that now that he's back, he's planning on developing the factory again and turning it into what it did before, which was making chips and chocolates and snacks. Hope for renewal, like so much else in this new Syria. And guys, here's the thing. That factory owner we just spoke with, he's going to have to rebuild everything. Everything he has, has, is gone. And we're seeing that all over this country, but everybody is still smiling. And that's what's actually so remarkable about being here for the past week is that everybody here is ecstatic about this new regime and this new Syria, despite the fact that there's just signs of ruin and destruction everywhere we look. It's remarkable. All right, NBC's Matt Bradley reporting live from Damascus. Thank you so much. So, Admiral Stravitas, someone be different reports this weekend about what's going on in Syria. I'd love for you to give us your insights. There seems to be a balance. Hope in the streets and yet warnings from the survivors of the Arab Spring and the blowback after that a decade or so ago saying this is going to end badly. Where are you? I hear echoes of my own past here, which is as NATO commander, I led the intervention in Liberty Libya. And when Muammar Gaddafi was finally taken down by his people, there was jubilation, there were smiles for weeks. For a few months now, Libya remains a very riven royal place kind of pulled apart. So put me down in the skeptical but hopeful category. I think what we ought to do in the United States is look at what are our interests there. Number one, let's get rid of these weapons of mass destruction, notably chemical that Bashar Al Assad has still kicking around in that country. Number two, preventing the rise of another Islamic State. This is pretty fertile ground. Nature abhors a vacuum. Geopolitics really abhorred a vacuum. There are still remnants of the Islamic State. And then third, and finally our allies in the region. We've got both Israel with the border and Turkey, NATO ally. That's a Naito border on the north up there. Those are our interests. So what we ought to do, and I think we're doing it pretty well right now, is get the international community engaged. So international, get our interagency working together. You can't solve this one with just the Department of Defense. You need State and Treasury and all of that. And then third, and finally, Joe, you need public private cooperation. I was really struck. Okay, now we're not going to make amphetamines captagon. We want to go back to making potato chips. That's a public private enterprise. Are, are obviously companies aren't going to rush into Syria at this point, hardly. But over time, there's got to be private sector engagement if you're going to put that economy on a good footing and keep the smile on the face of the Syrian people. So, Richard, you just heard the admiral outline what he thinks the US Needs to do in the region. Secretary of State Blinken is in the area now. US Officials have started talking to the rebel government There, but there's some competing interests. Israel's going to have a say, Iran's going to want a say, Turkey wants a say. How do you see this structure being put in place? Well, I'm also on the skeptical side. The idea that you're going to have a benign government that rules over all Assyria, that would make you a cockeyed optimist, more likely to have a problematic government or probably multiple places of autonomy. The Kurds, you know, the Israelis will have their space. The Turks have their forces, certain other groups, ISIS will come back in places. I think for the foreseeable future, a Balkans like Syria seems more realistic. US should do the kinds of things we're doing. But actually, I think the bigger issues for the United States are not in Syria because I think there's limited upside there. I would say focusing on Iran right now, Iran is on its heels. How do we lock in the idea that Iran doesn't have a nuclear program that's meaningful, doesn't continue supportive proxies? Do you think Iran's rushing toward a nuclear program given that they are at their weakest states? They've been since 79? Well, they've been moving gradually towards it over the last few months. What we want to do is stop it, ideally, diplomatically, if need be. Militarily, that's something we would do with Israel. Israel also, we still have the problem with Gaza, the hostages and so forth. So I think there's limited things you can do. And Syria, like, if you look at the history of Syria since its creation, had divisions. It was an artificial construct of the French after World War I. The idea that we're going to put Humpty Dumpty together again and make Syria Switzerland. Okay, but a bit idealistic. Not going to happen. So, Admiral, okay, we've talked about drones over Ukraine. Let's talk about drones over the swamps of Jersey. Is it real? Are they airplanes? Or are they just constellations in the skies? Yeah, this is exactly the right question. Last night I did a little thought experiment. And I've spent a lifetime on the bridge of ships with binoculars, scanning the horizon, looking at targets in the sky. I just went outside at night with a pair of binoculars and looked up. What I came up with was, was four things that kind of looked like they might be drones, but after watching and listening, another quality. One was a commercial airliner. One was a Navy helicopter. We got a Navy base nearby. One was the star Venus, which I mistook for movement. And one kind of flickered behind a tree and went away, probably a Light airplane landing at a small airport near me. So. So color me skeptical. A word we've used a couple of times this morning on if we are facing a major threat from drones. I think the question is, what do you do about this, this conversation that's evolving? You need to kind of combine some intelligence, as in getting out and monitoring who's buying drones, where are they buying them? Are people on social networks talking about operating drones? We need some technology solutions. The Department of Defense has excellent systems that can quickly tell you that's a star, that's an airplane, that's a helicopter. And we need that interagency cooperation just like we do in Syria. We're not going to solve the drone problem with just the local police. You need local police, you need stateies, you need the Department of Defense can provide technology. FBI guy. It's got to be an interagency effort to bring it all together. He final thought went back to Jim's riff on drones. It is the big military problem. It's not just drones. It's unmanned vehicles of all kinds, satellites under the ocean in the sky. It's cyber AI, it's special forces. That's the future of warfare. And controlling these drones is kind of the edge of that. But these are really two separate conversations. Retired Admiral James Deridas, thank you very much. And Richard Haas, thank you both very much for this morning. Okay, coming up, Pablo Torrey is here to go through the biggest headlines from across the NFL and the team he says is now clearly the best in the league. Morning Joe is back in a moment. Hey friends, Ted Danson here and I want to let you know about my new podcast. It's called Where Everybody Knows yous Name with me, Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson. Sometimes doing this podcast is a chance for me and my good bud Woody to reconnect after Cheers wrap 30 years ago. Plus, we're introducing each other to the friends we've met since like Jane Fonda, Conan O'Brien, Eric Andre, Mary Steenberg, Virgin, my wife, and flee from the Red Hot Chili Peppers. And trust me, it's always a great hang when Woody's there. So why wait? Listen to where everybody knows your name. Wherever you get your podcasts, discover hydro. The best kept secret in fitness. Hydro is a state of the art at home rower that engages 86% of your muscles, delivering the ultimate full body workout in just 20 minutes. From advanced to beginner, Hydro has over 5,000 classes shot worldwide and taught by Olympians and world class athletes for a 30 day risk free trial. Go to hydro.com and use code FIT to save up to $800 on a Hydro Pro Rower. That's H Y-R D R O W.com code FIT. Hey guys, have you heard of Goldbelly? It's this amazing site where they ship the most iconic famous foods from restaurants across the country anywhere nationwide. I've never found a more perfect gift than food they ship Chicago deep dish pizza, New York bagels, Maine lobster rolls and even Ina Garten's famous cakes. So if you're looking for a gift for the food lover in your Life, head to goldbelly.com and get 20% off your first order with promo code gift. Once again, Daniels looking, moving to his left under pressure. Stays on his feet. Now he throws to the end zone and is caught for a touchdown by McLaren. Jackson looking deep down the field. Bateman is wide open at the 10, at the 5. And Bateman gets in. Touchdown Baltimore. A couple big plays on third down on this drive. Third and four rush end zone. Lamb just in a fitting way for this drive to end. Barrow looking deep. He's got Higgins out there. Caught. Touchdown. Cincinnati deep for Adams. He's got devonte Adams. Adams is going to take it into the end zone for a Jets touchdown or use the run game or quarterback. Run game. They set up Mitchell. It's going to be a double pass. And that one is intercepted. It's Bonito. Empty set blitz coming. Mayfield out to the left. Throws on the move for Mike Evans, who gets loose down the sideline. Mike Evans. It's a touchdown for Tampa. The Bay second and four. Staying on the ground to Cook. Nice cut. Cook taken off. He actually almost got stopped, but he's going home for the touchdown. They 35 love putting it up top. Back of the end zone. Oh, did do catch that. What a catch. Romeo Dos. Touchdown Green Bay. Some of the biggest touchdowns across the NFL yesterday. Let's bring in right now the host of Pablo Tory finds out on Metal Art Media, MSNBC contributor Pablo Tori. Pablo. Yesterday too. Just classic games. Classic. Yes. A separation Sunday. Yeah, it really was. I mean you had, you had, of course, the Steelers and the Eagles and then you had the Bills and Lions. Bills pulling it out with the Lions. So we teased that you were going to tell us who the best team the NFL was. Who is it? It's the Buffalo Bills. And look, this has been a pretty easy race for the Lions to win up until this game. Yeah, the Lions, unlike the Chiefs, right here are the contenders in the NFL. If you've Been hibernating all season. The Chiefs have the best record, but the Chiefs keep on winning by the hair of their chinny chin chin to use the pig again. And here the Lions and the Bills come in and I have, I have the Lions because the Lions have been incredible in the toughest division. And Josh Allen. Yeah, again, just nobody has scored more touchdowns on the ground and through the air in the same game than this gentleman right here. And so John, they just keep on winning these 40, 40 ish big high scoring games and they can win any way you want. Two thoughts on this. One is the Lions defense decimated by injury, which is something to worry about for them in January as well. And one might wonder if the Eagles now have caught them atop the nfc. But my only counter to the Bills, and I agree Josh Allen's mvp, their offense is extraordinary. Teams like this teams are built to simply outscore the other team. We have to win games 40 to 35. And I speak of a few New England Patriots teams are like this. A few of Peyton Manning seems like this. They tend not to win in January. Yeah, I mean the counter this season though is just that. I don't. There's maybe, maybe one or two teams where I feel good about their defense. So much of the season has been mediocrity has been. Wait a minute. Okay. A team that can stop the run, some suddenly gets blown up. When we talk about the story of this season, it's that again the cliche in the NFL is any given Sunday this season. The reason the Bills are so fantastic is because they have a guy in Josh Allen who just feels like he's at the peak of their powers. Mahomes doesn't feel like that right now. And now injured. And now injured. Let's talk about the battle for the Keystone State. I mean you got the Steelers and the Eagles. What an incredible matchup. Two teams top four and the Eagles this year not doing what they did last year after a strong, strong start. They're not collapsing, they're hanging in there. A franchise record 10 straight wins, but not without some rickety ness. So heading into this game, AJ Brown and Jalen hurts. The story was the feud. Jalen hurts. Joe, you remember him from his days at Alabama. Yes, I do. The critique was could he really be a true drop back passer? AJ Brown, a wide receiver in the tradition of wide receivers throughout time, said I need the ball more. And this again was a team atop the NFC east quite comfortably. And they come in the Pittsburgh, they come in against the Pittsburgh Steelers and we know the Steelers, what they do, they make life hard for teams that feel good about themselves and they win very comfortably. This was an enormous, enormous indicator in a. In a football swing state as well, about. Okay, maybe these Eagles are to be considered a real, real contender. Yeah. You know, it's funny, I think, Jonathan, we're going to have to sort of go back and look at our picks. Everybody said the Lions and the Chiefs. Yep. And now second, maybe the Lions and Chiefs, but also maybe the Eagles and the Bills. We have four really good teams right now. Yeah, I think that's right. And I wouldn't count out the Steelers either. They were missing their best receiver yesterday. Their offense did seem a little limited, but it was impressive that Philly could win after getting a rare subpar game from Saquon Barkley. Yeah, he didn't do that much. He's going for the rushing record. 60, 70 yards. Didn't really happen. There was another statement in the Sunday Night Football game, though. The packers go to Seattle. Tough place to play. Seahawks had won, I think five in a row. And they just dominated from the go. Yeah, run the ball, run the ball. Run the ball. Win the game. That's right. So if you think about the hardest tests in the NFL, the Seattle Seahawks right now entering this game, they play in what used to be, I think The Chiefs, Claire McCaskill's Chiefs just beat the record a couple of years ago, the loudest building on earth when it comes to sports venues. That was the Seahawks building that we're watching right now. Also, their defense was the best in the NFL over the last four weeks. And the packers come in and it looks easy. It looks really easy. Remarkably. Talk about the NFC North. Who would have every guest. You got the Bears. I mean, you got the Bears for nine, but you've got the Lions 11 and two. You got the Vikings 11 and two on a win streak. And then you got the Packers 10 and 3, looking great. I mean, that is. That is the division. It's as impressive a division as I can remember in modern football. The Vikings just clinched, by the way, a postseason birth. Because Sam, of that game, Sam Darnold, is somehow now in the conversation for. Do we need to give that guy a ton of money? Because he's piloted this team. But if you look at the playoffs, yeah, you have three teams that are all going to be there. So let's talk about two teams that have underperformed terribly this year. Won the 49ers, who continue to underperform. Shocking. 6 and 8 just shocking 6 and 8. But the Dallas Cowboys, we. We of course turned it on in my. In my household because we want to see Bryce Young, who had been playing great. He didn't have a chance to set up because, man, Micah Parsons and the Cowboys actually looked like we thought they were going to look all year. They. I mean, they're off. Their defensive line was explosive. I like to imagine you just, like, monitoring Bryce Young on Sunday just to make sure he's okay, like, he's your kid studying abroad. Like, is he doing all right this time? Why don't we just stop? Yeah, he's done very well for the last five weeks. He has done so much. He's done really well. No one has embodied the moral victory quite like Bryce Young. Not a lot of wins, but you're like, man, he's making something out of himself. And I say that, Joe, because this game, he looks good. He looks good. Well, the Cowboys, you just embodied what Cowboys fans have been yelling at their television. It's why they lead the country in TVs thrown out of windows. Right? Micah Parsons is one of the great defensive players. Dak Prescott went healthy, was one of the great quarterbacks. This is the great brand in American sports. And. And finally, against the Panthers, against Bryce Young, they look like it for a glimmering, shimmering, brief Sunday. Finally, let's just talk about the Giants. How bad can they get? They have the number one overall draft pick. So Richard Haas, wherever you are, take heart in that. But it's bad, bad. It's bad. I mean, look, what did they say? It's always darkest before it goes pitch black. I think we might be in the Chairman Mao phase of the NFL season for the Giants, and, by the way, rewarded by a bit of socialism with the NFL draft. The worst get the best. It's a delight. Okay, thank you, Pablo. The latest episode of Pablo Torre finds out today. I am available now. Pablo Torre. Thank you. Always good to see you. We'll see you on Wednesday. All right. Hey, friends, Ted Danson here, and I want to let you know about my new podcast. It's called where everybody knows your name with me, Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson. Sometimes doing this podcast is a chance for me and my good bud Woody to reconnect after cheers wrapped 30 years ago. Plus, we're introducing each other to the friends we've met since, like Jane Fonda, Conan O'Brien, Eric on Mary Steenburgen, my wife, and flee from the Red Hot Chili Peppers. And trust me, it's always a great hang when Woody's there, so why wait? Listen to where everybody knows your name. Wherever you get your podcasts.