Katty Kay (4:56)

Yeah.

Sam Stein (4:56)

And what does that mean going forward? I mean, if some of them are going to carry on saying no, I can't imagine that the president elect is going to be thrilled with that. And of course, this new funding bill is only going to keep the government open until March. So these debates are going to come up again. And despite Republicans now controlling both the chambers and the presidency, they will need at least some Democratic votes to avoid a future shutdown. As NBC News News reports, Trump's demand that Congress extend or abolish the debt ceiling to take it off his plate next year failed dramatically. On Wednesday, he threatened electoral primary challenges, the weapon of choice, of course, against any Republican who voted to fund the government without dealing with the debt limit. On Friday, 170 House Republicans defied him and yes, did just that. Senate Republicans say last week's turmoil is a preview of just how difficult it's going to be for House Speaker Mike Johnson to facilitate two budget reconciliation packages and a debt limit bill next year. The Hill reports that Senator Josh Hawley of Missouri expressed doubt about whether the speaker can pass these major bills, quote, if they can't manage the cr, how is he going to manage reconciliation? It's bad. It bodes badly. And another concern, Trump's signature campaign promise of large scale mass deportations. The Telegraph reports days after his election victory, Trump said there would be no price tag on his plan for mass deportations, which will probably involve constructing tens of thousands of detention centers. A report from the American Immigration Council, a pro immigration group, estimated that deporting 1 million migrants a year would cost at least $88 billion. So, Jonathan, I know it's Christmas and I know people are asking for a lot of gifts, but it looks like Donald Trump is asking for an awful lot from Congress next year. This is not to mention continuing those tax cuts that he wants to do, potentially bringing down the corporate tax cut as well. I mean, that's the kind of thing that would keep any Congress busy. And yet they've got to deal with all this procedural stuff because they haven't managed to do it before the end of this year.

Jonathan Lemire (7:03)

That's going to cost an extraordinary amount of money. And there are some Republicans who are, you know, have been principled in their idea of really wanting to slash spending. And that's why they said they opposed what went down last week. So, Sam Stein, let's talk about this. Two parts to you here. First, just this idea that it is chaos yet again that we had heard in the months past. Donald Trump, his campaign for him was more organized, more disciplined. Here we go. He knows how to use the levers of government. Now. He's not a rookie at this. He's surrounding himself with people who have been there before. And he's going to have Republican majorities, though slim, in the Senate and the House. And yet it is complete tumult again, in part because some Republicans, at least on some issues, appear willing to defy him.

Simone Sanders Townsend (7:50)

Yeah, he's not, we should note. I mean, it's obvious, but he's not the president yet. So the chaos has begun before as he's taken office. It is interesting that on some occasions we've seen Republicans willing to just say no. So, you know, Trump didn't endorse Rick Scott for leader, but Elon Musk did. And Trump kind of let it be known that he wanted Rick Scott to be Senate Majority Leader. We ended up with John Thune. Matt Gaetz was supposed to be, you know, someone that Trump would go to the mat for. He hinted at recess appointments if Matt Gaetz didn't get the Attorney General post. Matt Gaetz ended up pulling his nomination. Now, you see again the calls for a debt limit hike, if not the elimination totally of it. We had 38 Republican votes in the House against that specific proposal. So occasionally we are seeing some Republican, Congressional, Republican spine here. Now, I don't know if that's going to be consistent throughout the next four years, but it is interesting and I will say this is not abnormal, not the spine, the chaos is not abnormal. For anyone who remembers what the Trump presidency was like the first four years, yes, it was supposed to be different this go round, but this is just the way he operates. Right. There's something almost scripted about how the government funding fight went down, which is you have a deal, he torpedoes the deal. You have a fallback option that doesn't work. You go to plan three and in three months time, I honestly think we'll be doing this all over again.

Jonathan Lemire (9:18)

Yes, Simone, I think that's exactly right. This is what the first term of Trump was like. This is before even Trump takes office. Sure seems like a sneak preview of what the second term will be like. So my question to you is, what role can Democrats play in this? You know that they, we've seen it coalesce around last week, these attacks on Elon Musk. We'll get into him more in a minute. Also willing to just simply, of course to say, no, we had a deal, you backed out. How do you think they handled this particular fight and what lessons can they learn for those ahead?

Derek Johnson (9:54)

Look, in my conversations with Democratic lawmakers and I mean this really came together around 5pm Friday afternoon when that bill text dropped. The Democrats went into a caucus meeting because they didn't know what was in the bill. And so they wanted to make sure there were no, as they described it to me, poison pills. And as one senior Democrat lawmaker said to me, if there are no poison pills in here, we are probably going to vote for it. But again, we need to have a conversation. I think one Democrats wanted to go home okay. For Christmas. But I also think they did not want to withhold be a part of the government shutting down if there was really nothing nefarious, if you will, in the bill, because this is right before Christmas and the holidays and people needed to get their checks. So I was though of the ilk that Democrats should have fought. Look, I think that it is not up to good precedent is set if in fact you have a deal and then the deal is agreed to and so on and so forth. All the negotiators do the negotiating and then Elon Musk, followed by the president elect, okay, not the other way around, comes in and blows the deal up. This is going to be par for the course for the next at least two to four years. So in saying that to Democratic lawmakers, they told me, well, we did fight. You know, they got, they protected Social Security, they fought Donald Trump on the debt limit and ensured that enough number of bills that maybe that needed to come together, things that were in the original cr, the original deal that they had that didn't make it into the final deal that came across the desk in the House did go through in the Senate some additional money for cancer research, for childhood cancer research, obviously, that RFK Stadium deal, giving the land back to Washington, D.C. so that they could develop it or maybe have another, maybe have a new stadium there. So those things did happen. But Democrats, the last thing I'll say, Jonathan, is they have governed with Republicans throughout the 118th Congress. Every single bill that passed, passed because Democrats crossed the aisle to vote. That had to do with the government functions, if you will. They weren't rewarded for that in the midterms. So one has to question, will the American people see this chaos and see Democrats coming together to be the adults in the room doing their jobs and reward them in the next midterm election? Will they? Because they weren't awarded in the last election? That remains to be seen. We don't know yet.

Jonathan Lemire (12:10)

Yeah. Well, as Simone just rightly mentioned, the tide turned on the original spending bill because Elon Musk came out against it first. Only then did Donald Trump follow suit. And that's adding to the storyline about just how much of a say Musk has. To the point where Trump addressed Musk's growing political influence despite the world's richest man, of course, not being elected to any position in the federal government. Several critics have publicly called out Musk for having more influence than Trump over the current Republican Party. But the president elect was apparently having none of it, making some key remarks about Musk during a speech yesterday that he gave at a gathering of young conservative activists in Phoenix.

Donald Trump (12:55)

You know, they're on a new kick. Russia, Russia, Russia, Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine. All the different hoaxes. The new one is President Trump has ceded the presidency to Elon Musk. No, no, that's not happening. But Elon's done an amazing job. But, no, he's not going to be president, that I can tell you. And I'm safe. You know why he can't be. He wasn't born in this country.

Jonathan Lemire (13:29)

KATTY K. A lot to unpack here. First of all, we know Donald Trump hates it when anyone challenges him for the spotlight. The fact that he had to address it over the weekend shows that it's clearly getting under his skin. The fact that he had to point to the Constitution as an example of, hey, no, Elon Musk actually can't be president. He wasn't born here. Shows you how much this is getting under his skin. So weigh in on that. And also, of course, as are resident European correspondent, you're far more familiar with the concept of prime minister, which is what that Republican congressman said at the top of the show, than we are suggesting unironically that Musk is gonna play a role like that.

Sam Stein (14:08)

Yes. So generally speaking, the prime minister's the head of the party. I mean, that is how you get to be prime minister. Your party is elected, but you are the head of the party, so you have an enormous amount of power. I don't know that he was, you know, totally aware of what he was saying in that suggestion. Maybe he thought the prime minister would be subservient in this role. But anyway, it's an elected official. That is how you get to prime minister. We've been waiting for a while to see when the Elon Trump relationship might run into difficulties. Clearly, all that talk that was around in Washington and all the, you know, my kids sent me, even my kids sent me these funny cartoons of Elon and Vance in the front seat of the car and Trump in the back and them saying so cute that he thinks he's doing the steering, which was the implication was that he wasn't. So all of that seems to be getting back to Donald Trump. Sam Stein. But I mean, there's still, you know, Trump still seems to need or want Elon around. I don't know how long that lasts, but at the moment, that still seems to be the case. He seems to appreciate the amount of money that Elon poured into states like Pennsylvania to get him reelected. And I don't see Elon disappearing from the scene as quickly as some other people have suggested.

Simone Sanders Townsend (15:15)

No, I don't either. It's unclear how much Trump needs and wants. I mean, I'm sure he's appreciative of the money, which was.

H (15:22)

Yeah, the money.

Simone Sanders Townsend (15:23)

The money was very helpful. And I think the idea that you have this person here who has the biggest megaphone in politics and also the biggest banking account literally in the world, threatening Republicans to get in line behind your agenda, that doesn't hurt Trump. Right. He kind of enjoys the idea that there's this anvil waiting to be dropped on the party. And that, frankly, was what happened in the CR debate, which was. It wasn't just that Elon was spouting off on various provisions in the bill, which he clearly didn't understand because he got factually wrong. He didn't quite understand how the congressional process worked. That wasn't what was important. It was when Elon said, anyone who votes for this is going to get a primary challenge and I'll fund it, that's what mattered. And so I think Trump likes having that tool. The problem is, of course, is that if Elon starts stealing his thunder, the spotlight, and it becomes apparent that Elon is actually more powerful than Trump, that will not go over very well for the president, like, soon to be president. I think that's when you start seeing friction between the two.

Jonathan Lemire (16:22)

Yeah. When the Time magazine cover drops, suggesting that Elon Musk is actually running the show. That may be.

Simone Sanders Townsend (16:28)

Can I make a quick point on that? When they were doing the Person of the year, Time magazine, Elon put out a couple tweets, which was. It gave the impression that he knew he might be treading on thin water, where he was like, I don't want the COVID I don't want the COVID That should be for Trump. He understood that if that happened, that would have been quite bad. Exactly.

Sam Stein (16:47)

It's not a bad place to be.

Jonathan Lemire (16:49)

Doge would have been done before it began, had that occurred. Well, we're certainly gonna be following this relationship. Relationship in the weeks and months if Musk lasted that long ahead. So let's turn to another piece of Trump news from the weekend, though. As he turned his attention out of nowhere to the Panama Canal. Trump posted on social media Saturday that the United States might ask for the canal back if Panama continues to charge the US what he deems ridiculous fees. Trump then doubled down on that stance during his speech yesterday.

Donald Trump (17:22)

The Panama Canal. Has anyone ever heard of the Panama Canal? Because we're being ripped off at the Panama Canal like we're being ripped off everywhere else. Our Navy and commerce have been treated in a very unfair and in judicious way. The fees being charged by Panama are ridiculous, highly unfair. Especially knowing the extraordinary generosity that has been bestowed to Panama, I say very foolishly by the United States. This complete ripoff of our country will immediately stop. It's going to stop. The United States has a big and vested interest in the secure, efficient and reliable operation of the Panama Canal. And that was always understood when they gave it to Panama. You got to treat us fairly and they haven't treated us fairly. If the principles, both moral and legal of this magnanimous gesture of giving are not followed, then we will demand that the Panama Canal be returned to the United States of America in full, quickly and without question not going to stand for it. So to the officials of Panama, please be guided accordingly.

Jonathan Lemire (18:47)

In an apparent response, the seemingly surprised President of Panama expressed that the Canal is a sovereign entity and would not be handed over to the United States. Trump then responded to that on truth social writing. We'll see about that. The President elect has also resurrected. It's not just Panama. He's also resurrected interests in taking control of Greenland. And announcing his pick for the US Ambassador to Denmark, Trump wrote, for purposes of national security and freedom throughout the world, the United States of America feels that the ownership and control of Greenland is an absolute necessity. Trump said that during his first administration that he was looking into buying the self governing island which is controlled by Denmark and Simone. So he's not even in office yet and he is claiming need for expansion with Greenland, the Panama Canal. He's also been threatening Canada because of the tariffs issue where he suggested, perhaps jokingly, perhaps not, that Canada should be the 51st state. He started referring to Prime Minister Trudeau as Governor Trudeau, as if he was just the governor of a state there. So this is Trump again, as the world braces for his return, rattling a lot of cages and suggesting that the United States is going to be a, a bully around the world, to say the least.

Derek Johnson (20:11)

The Panama Canal strikes me, his comments, they were random. It strikes me as though he perhaps got a briefing about something and then because you know, the President elect at this time, the President elect and the vice President elect, they are receiving these national security briefings and whatnot. So maybe he got a briefing about something and he's trying to get it off his chest when it comes to what he is saying about Greenland and furthermore what he has said about Canada. To me, this actually helps me understand a little bit more his stance on Russia's war in Ukraine. Because for the life of me, I have been struggling to understand why not just Donald Trump, but this faction of Republicans within the Republican Party apparatus are just so cavalier, if you will, about the sovereignty of another country. But the president elect himself is very cavalier about the sovereignty of another country. Joking about Canada being the 51st state is actually quite serious. Right. He's talking about trampling on the sovereignty of the people of Canada, saying that not respecting their borders. It is not a hard line for him. And while it may seem lighthearted, I do think it helps us get a window into why he has said the things that he has said about Ukraine. To Donald Trump, Ukraine's sovereignty is really just up for grabs. And so talking about potentially striking a deal between Russia and Ukraine without the Ukrainians at the table. Right. This is something that he thinks he can broke broker because to him, this situation is no different than him looking to buy Greenland or him, you know, just usurping the sovereignty of Canada. And this, this in Donald Trump's mind would be the new world order.

Jonathan Lemire (21:50)

Yeah. It's sort of to underscore that Trump's foreign policy summed up on it's transactional and with the United States financial interests in mind. We'll get more into that later on. Next up here on Morning Joe. President Joe Biden announced early this morning that he will be commuting the sentences of of Most of the 40 inmates on federal death row. We'll explain who was instrumental in helping Biden arrive at that momentous decision. Beautiful look at New York City this morning at 6:20am here on the East coast, our friends with Chopper 4. We'll be right back in just 90 seconds.

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Jonathan Lemire (24:16)

Time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is signaling a greater willingness for negotiations to end the war with Russia. It comes as his country's forces are struggling to hold off Moscow's recent advances. President elect Donald Trump is also pushing to broker a deal. Despite his change in rhetoric, Ukraine's leader has not explicitly said what concessions might be part of this deal. Elsewhere, more teenagers are using dangerously powerful pot. The Wall Street Journal is focusing on dabbing where users inhale fumes from highly concentrated cannabis that is heated at high temperatures. Health authorities say they're seeing more and more teens land in the emergency room with seizures, vomiting or psychosis. Dabs have up to 90% THC, the psychoactive component of cannabis, compared with the 4% the joints typically had back in 1995. Dangerous trend there. And dozens of new species were discovered in the jungles of Peru. The findings came during a 38 day expedition in the summer of 2022. The research team found four mammals, eight fish, three amphibians and 10 butterflies. That includes a mouse that swims with webbed feet, one of the rarest groups of mammals anywhere in the world. There he is. Also a new species of climbing salamander, not quite as cute as the mouse. And check out this armored blob headed catfish, also new to science. There he is, the blob headed catfish. Researchers also found dozens of rare and endangered species, some not known to occur anywhere else on the planet. So as we leave up that picture of that catfish. Katie K. This is remarkable scientific discoveries all the same.

Sam Stein (26:18)

The swimming mouse was cute idea but that Catfish. We could have pulled that picture down a little quicker. Okay, now making a turn to something very different. President Joe Biden announced today that he will be commuting the sentences of Most of the 40 inmates on federal death row. Biden will be changing the death sentences to life without parole to all but three inmates, the exceptions being the Boston bomber and the two men responsible for the mass shootings at the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh and the church in Charleston. South Carolina. Advocates fighting against the death penalty, including Pope Francis, had been urging President Biden to grant the commutations before Donald Trump, who is pro capital punishment, takes over in January. Biden said in a statement, make no mistake, I condemn these murderers, grieve for the victims of their despicable acts, and ache for all the families who have suffered unimaginable and irreparable. I am more convinced than ever that we must stop the use of the death penalty at the federal level. In good conscience, I cannot stand back and let a new administration resume executions that I halted. Joining us now is the president and CEO of the naacp, Derek Johnson. The organization has been advocating for the Biden administration to commute the sentences of even more people in prison, especially those incarcerated under the war on drugs. So, Derek, what do you make of this move? Perhaps not surprising, particularly after the pope weighed in, but what do you make of it?

J (27:51)

Well, we commend the president for this extraordinary act. The clemency and pardon powers of the president is unmatched, and it's good to see that he's using the moral authority of his faith to do what's right. You think about those who are on death row, over 55% of those individuals are people of color, African Americans and Latinos and others. In fact, for every eight people who are killed, one person later is found to be exonerated. So we are encouraging the president to continue on this moral path to ensure that the disparities that we see in the system that has been proven is addressed through the clemency process. There are individuals that should be pardoned. They are productive citizens. And this is the type of legacy that we will want to see any president go out on, a legacy of helping people, recognizing disparities and addressing moral inequities.

Sam Stein (28:45)

So, Derek, in 2021, Attorney General Merrick Garland actually issued a moratorium on federal executions. Of course, that doesn't apply to state executions, but he did on federal executions. What do you think happens to that moratorium under a new Trump administration?

J (29:02)

Well, unfortunately, we will resume the process for those who are on death row to be addressed. But think about it. We are clearing the road now. The president, with this one act, have reduced the number of federal inmates on death row from 40 to 3. I think that's extraordinary. And so what happens after this would take a while because to go through a trial, to be sentenced to death is not something that happens overnight. So hopefully with this act, we can begin to right size the criminal justice system, at least on the federal level. But particularly we are encouraging the president to continue on this path. There are far too many individuals who was convicted of the crime today would not be in prison. They would not receive the harsh punishment they've received. And so he must continue on this voyage is the moral thing to do. And we commend him for what he's done so far.

Simone Sanders Townsend (30:02)

Derek, Sam Stein here. I think the backdrop to this is kind of interesting, which is it was Joe Biden in the mid-90s who crafted the law, the crime bill that ended up establishing some of the statutes that applied for the federal death penalty. And now we have him, what is it? My math pretty bad, 30 years later, going in the opposite direction. As this decision comes down this morning, commuting or changing the sentences to life without parole for 37 of the 40 inmates. I'm just wondering if you could talk about what you think the politics are here, because obviously the White House will be attacked for this decision by a lot of people who think, look, these are heinous cases, horrible crimes. These people do not deserve leniency. And Joe Biden, you said set the law yourself for putting these people to death. Do you think there's going to be sharp political blowback? Do you think it will stick?

J (30:52)

I grew up in the 80s, in the early 90s. I understand the crack epidemic and the fear it had in the African American community, which generated the law of 1994. And as a result of that law, you had the majority of the Congressional Black Caucus who also supported their law. So let's evolve as a nation. Our understanding around the criminal justice system has evolved. In fact, mass incarceration has not serve this nation. So if we don't learn from the past, we're doomed to repeat it. So I commend the president for taking a stand today to address what we know is the reality. Mass incarceration, inequity in citizens and a disparity between crack and potter did not serve this nation well. So let's look forward, not look backward. I don't think anybody will have that backlash, although those who will will be individuals who are already in the Trump case.

Derek Johnson (31:44)

President Johnson, Simone Sanders Townsend here. I'm wondering what else you would like to see the president do prior to him leaving office on January 20th. I am sure, I'm positive that the president has sought your counsel. And I'm wondering what that was.

J (32:01)

Well, first of all, we encourage this administration, the president, to use the clemency powers to address the disparities across the board. You have individuals who are sitting in jail today who is convicted of marijuana crimes. That's no longer a crime in pretty much 50 other states. You have individuals who are subject to disproportionate impact of sentencing disparities. You have individuals like Kimber Smith or Marilyn Moseley who should be pardoned. We have an opportunity to hear as this administration go out to right size our criminal justice system on a federal level in a way that we have not seen before. His legacy is something that we will celebrate once he pardoned and commute the sentence of so many individuals who should not be sitting in jail or who could be leading productive lives and contributing to society.

Jonathan Lemire (32:57)

And Katty mentioned the role that Pope Francis had to play here. The White House announced that President Biden will make his final international trip while in office to the Vatican to see the Hope sometime next month. President and CEO of the naacp, Derek Johnson. Thank you, sir, for joining us this morning.

J (33:12)

Thank you.

Jonathan Lemire (33:13)

And Simone Sanders Townsend, thank you as well. Great to see you coming up here. You've been waiting all weekend. Pablo Torre and Paul Feinbaum join us with their takeaways from that slate of football, college and the NFL. Lots of games to get to Morning Joe. We'll be right back with that. Hi, my name is Patrick Adams. You may know me as Mike Ross on the TV series Suits.

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And I'm Sarah Rafferty and I play Donna Paulson on Suits.

Jonathan Lemire (33:41)

And we have a podcast called Sidebar where every week we watch and discuss an episode of the show.

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That's true. At least until now.

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Jonathan Lemire (35:17)

Second down and 7 and locked. Looking ball deflected and taken back by.

H (35:25)

Matthew Judon, the second pick six today for Atlanta. You don't dance in the backfield at.

Jonathan Lemire (35:33)

That running back spot. Goff on first down, firing downfield for Williams. He's got it. Jameson Williams into the end zone. Touchdown.

H (35:45)

Back to Taylor. And Taylor trying to put it away all by himself.

Jonathan Lemire (35:49)

Taylor into the open field one more time. Oh, what a stick arm to loosen the load. He's into the end zone. First and 10. Fake to Williams.

J (35:59)

Here they go.

Jonathan Lemire (36:00)

Higby 5 leaping and the pylon. Touchdown. Hubard to the Hubard.

Katty Kay (36:10)

Dancing into the end zone.

Jonathan Lemire (36:12)

And a Panthers victory with a touchdown in overtime. Every avenue. First and ten. Another big run. There he goes. He's got wide open space a Chan for 70. Doing a nice job as an extra blocker on the ground. Cook's got a hole. Cook still going. James Cook takes it the distance off play action. Stepping up, launching downfield and it is good. Quick snap, flags in the secondary. Daniels has an open man. Blown coverage. Zakus. Zakus. Touchdown. Tie game. Loving the pressure.

J (36:59)

Showing the pressure.

Jonathan Lemire (37:00)

Here he comes in the back.

J (37:01)

D. Lewis got there.

Jonathan Lemire (37:02)

Mayfield pitches it forward. Somehow he got it to White. Rashad White gets a gain out of that.

Katty Kay (37:09)

The ball.

H (37:09)

Take it away.

Jonathan Lemire (37:11)

Those were Some of the biggest plays across the NFL yesterday, including the Dallas Cowboys game ceiling turnover to beat the Tampa Buccaneers on Sunday Night Football over on NBC. Let's now bring in the host Pablo Torre finds out on Metal Arc Media. MSNBC contributor Pablo Torre and his sweater.

H (37:30)

Yes.

Jonathan Lemire (37:30)

Plus ESPN commentator Paul Feinbaum joins as well. So good to see you both. Pablo, let's start with the NFL. We're going to get to the college football, the underwhelming first round of the college football playoffs in a minute. But let's start with the NFL. You know, it was sort of, we were talking as you sat down, kind of a slate of games this week. But some games results though did matter, highlighting two in particular from yesterday. The Vikings continue to be that under the radar team this year. They go to Seattle, they win. If they win out, they're the number one seed in the nfc. And then the Eagles, who had also been on track potentially for that, their quarterback Jalen Hurts, gets knocked out and they give up a game to the Commanders.

H (38:09)

Yeah, let's start with the latter example you mentioned because Jaden Daniels, I just need to keep zooming out on what the, the DMV area, what the Commanders have represented to a franchise that could not be proud of itself for so long. Its name, its building its sewage system, its decade long history, decade long history.

Katty Kay (38:31)

Of poor quarterback play.

H (38:32)

And Jaden Daniels as a rookie has the game of his life. Jon, this was a guy who comes out of LSU and you're like, okay, how good is he really going to be? It turns out he's as good as pretty much any rookie quarterback in recent memory. And this was a game where the Commanders had five turnovers and the guy solves those problems by doing stuff like this. It's a remarkable thing to have the guy that you pray for actually be as good as you dream. And now they're a 10 win team. This game, by the way, eliminates the Dallas Cowboys. For those who are wondering, what about the Cowboys? They've been knocked out now. And Eagles, let's keep in mind also are a favorite to make the Super Bowl. And so this is an incredible marker in the history of a franchise that is needed. Yeah. Moments of actual optimism grounded in evidence as opposed to just dreams.

Jonathan Lemire (39:21)

It comes just days after there's at least a chance now they might move back to Washington D.C. for the stadium.

H (39:26)

Yes. Legislation and all of that.

Jonathan Lemire (39:28)

So the Vikings, you know, they go to Seattle who are reeling at this point and the Sam Darnold experience continues.

H (39:34)

So if you're a Jet fan. Okay, you're watching Sam Darnold start for The Vikings, a 13. 2 team now playing against Gino Smith, starting for the Seahawks, also a playoff contender. And so this is one of those games where you're like, okay, we need to take this team incredibly seriously because it's not just the defense, which we know has been good all season. We know that secondary is the best at celebrating in professional sports. Sam Darnold is just not the Sam Darnold that was seen ghosts before. Sam Darnold was basically humiliated out of the NFL. It seemed like when he was in New York, Jet, he could not trust himself or his eyes or his instincts. I'm seeing ghosts is what he was caught saying on that line. You were there.

Jonathan Lemire (40:16)

It was against Bill Belichick, so of course.

H (40:18)

So the haunting is over. And Sam Darnold, now you have a choice if you're the Vikings, do we pay him all this money? And that is enough controversy. But if you're just a fan of the Vikings, you look up at the standings and you say, okay, 13 and two Vikings right behind the 13 two Lions. And they play on January 5th for the division, for the NFC. And this is just one of those divisions that again, The packers are 10 and 4 and right behind these two teams. And so a really strong win, you know, again, a close game, but it's incredible to see what these Vikings have.

Jonathan Lemire (40:50)

Been packers play tonight on Monday Night Football. Pablo, One more in the NFL, then we'll pivot to the. To the college game. The hierarchy of the AFC top teams all won. The Pats gave the Bills a scare, but Buffalo hangs on. We saw the Chiefs on Saturday gut out a win against the Texans. And then the Ravens, an impressive win, the first time they had beaten the Steelers in a while. AFC north now up for grabs.

H (41:10)

Yeah, so Lamar Jackson, he's on this Mount Rushmore currently, or the contemporary version of the four quarterbacks in the league that you really have to respect. So it's Mahomes, it's Allen, it's Burrow, and it's Lamar Jackson and the Steelers. The Steelers have been the team that has always played Lamar Jackson the toughest. And so you go into this game thinking this is a test for Lamar, who still, for all of his MVP trophies, has struggled in the playoffs and struggled in specific circumstances against teams and defenses like the Steelers. And he. He does it, man. Look, he throws a pick and yes, you're worried for a bit, but Lamar Jackson winning this game this decisively. Yeah, it's an MVP race. That's down to Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen right now. Now, and Lamar, if you're going to tell me it's going to be him again, I'm going to tell you. I would take Allen, but I understand the counter argument.

Jonathan Lemire (41:55)

Yeah, the narrative might be for Allen since he's never won one while Lamar. But we shall see. So Paul, let's turn to the college playoffs. Here we go field this year, opening weekend. Let's just put it out there. A bit of a dud. So we'll dive into the games in a second. But first, just your broad thoughts about what we saw. Four games, all four pretty decisive. A couple were routes. Does this format work?

Katty Kay (42:21)

No, it doesn't. Jonathan. The best moment of the four game playoff was the introduction of the game at Notre Dame Friday night. And it literally went straight downhill. Every game was a blowout. Now you look at some of the scores and, and there were a lot of late touchdowns. But the biggest flaw in the system was that several commissioners tried to kill it once there was expansion going on. So we, you had a bunch of commissioners in a room and they, it had to be unanimous. You understand that from D.C. and they made a terrible deal letting in the Highest rated power five conferences. Of course there's only four now with the PAC 12. So schools like Boise State and Arizona State who would have probably had to go on the road in the first round, end up sitting there waiting for the opponents. You had Ohio State, another team that's probably one of the two or three best in the country. It was convoluted and it was really at times difficult to watch. The good news is it will get reshuffled in the future. This is only a two year deal, deal that they had to make. But for the most exciting weekend in college football history, there's literally nothing to talk about. That happened.

Jonathan Lemire (43:27)

Yeah, it was deeply uninspiring. So Paul, but as you see the four, the winners there, and as it's Notre Dame, Penn State, Texas and Ohio State. You mentioned Ohio State. Beyond them, one of the other three schools. You see that they did something over the weekend that would say you make, you think, hey, they've got a shot to make a deep run in this tournament.

Katty Kay (43:44)

Well, Texas is probably the team you have to watch. I mean when you, when you look at them, you find flaws. But, but they have an elite defense and they ended up playing probably the closest game, one of the closest games of the group because it came down to a fourth down call against Clemson. But, but ultimately they have not only one of the better quarterbacks in the country, Quinn Ewers, they have the best backup in the quarterback named Arch Manning. You may have heard of his famous uncles and his grandfather, a couple three hall of Famers right there. So they're another school to keep your eye on. And they have one of the easier second round matches. Matchups. What's really remarkable, as you mentioned, Ohio State, they end up going to the rose bowl on January 1st, Jonathan, and have to take on Oregon. They've already met once this year in an epic game in Eugene was a one point game. These are literally two of the three best schools in the country playing in the quarterfinals of the College Football Playoff.

H (44:42)

Paul, you know I love you more when you were miserable and when your audience is miserable. But you mentioned looking ahead to two years from now. Take me inside the room of power brokers. What does this look like to you, terms of how this is all going to change the system itself?

Katty Kay (44:57)

Well, what's going to happen is you're going to seed it correctly. This is not like the NFL where you where it's a little convoluted with the conference divisional winners, but ultimately it's going to be seeded one through 12. We're not going to get any of these convoluted matchups in the first round and it will be more entertaining. Another big problem for college football, football that they're dealing with and they had to deal with on Saturday is that two of the games, the two afternoon games, the one at Penn State which was unwatchable, and the one at Austin which was only slightly more watchable, were both competing with NFL games and not just random Carolina Jaguar at the Jaguars. We're talking about, you know, serious games, Texans and the Chiefs as well as the Ravens and the Steelers. And I don't think that will happen again. They had to compress the schedule. The rest of the games, you have the New Year's Eve and New Year's Day and then the following week the games will be on Thursday night and Friday night.

H (46:00)

Why?

Katty Kay (46:01)

To avoid the wild card round in the NFL. And then the final game will be on Monday night. These are not your normal college football afternoon evening Saturday games.

Jonathan Lemire (46:11)

All right. Well, let's hope for better games in the coming rounds. ESPN's Paul Feinbaum. Paul, thank you. We will talk to you again again soon. Pablo, two more topics for you, one at a time. First, a really sad and stunning headline out of the weekend. Ricky Henderson passing away at just the age of 65 years old. He of course the all time leader, Major League baseball in both stolen bases and runs. He also is someone who had an on base percentage of well over of over.400. The greatest leadoff hitter in the game. Not even a conversation, but frankly one of the most exciting players to ever dominant uniform, maybe, maybe a top 20, 25 guy of all time.

H (46:48)

Yeah, you're watching a video where when he breaks the stolen bass record, he pulls the bass out of the ground and declares I am the greatest. Yes, there was a theatricality to this guy, a mythology to this guy, except it was substantiated by actual iconic acts and statistical feats. So Ricky Henderson, just the, the story of him, he's delivered early in his mother's car in the backseat. And to him this was always the story of how he was presaged to be the all time stolen base leader. I was born fast is the quote that Ricky always said. And there are so many quotes and stories about this guy. How he framed his first check instead of cashing it. It held on his wall and his accounting department with the A's was wondering what happened to the million dollars that Ricky got paid. Turns out he was just celebrating it. There are, there are just so many stories like that. But Ricky Henderson, he was also ahead of his time and I think underappreciated still. So Ricky Henderson, when it comes to this mix of both ego and charm and also just an unapologetic dynamism, both in terms of his football style, physicality on the base pass, but then also the way that he would completely, completely destroy another team by just being a guy without getting a hit. It could demoralize you, Jon, when you talk about the speed of him. In the end, it is a shame that at age 65 he's also in that way, gone too soon.

Jonathan Lemire (48:16)

Yeah, you're right. He controlled the game from the base paths and he also played the game with such flair and style and swagger. That was. People hated him. The way the snap catches in the outfield, which we see now fairly prevalently now, but at the time, again, way ahead of his time. Extraordinary player. Gone, gone too soon. But we will end on a more upbeat note. The apple does not fall far from the tree. Charlie woods, son of Tiger here at the PNC championship in Orlando, Florida tees off. And you, as we watch, you can guess where this is going. That's his first.

H (48:55)

Pretty good it turns out. Charlie Woods. I'm numb, John, to the idea at this point that we're just going to be watching the sons of pro athletes pretty soon they're Going to be dominating every spot sport you watch on television. But this story and this hug, right? So Tiger woods gets to be the rare thing. He was Goliath, and now he is David. He's the guy who was so destroyed by his injuries and his own mistakes that to see him being what we can all relate to, which is just a kind of just corny dad who's celebrating his son at the golf course, a son who he may not have to reckon with could be better than him. If all of us get our wishes, wishes. And they come true. Because Tiger, of course, the greatest of all time. But Charlie doing this on this stage with this spotlight, with this ace look, it's unrealistic to think that he would actually ever be better than Tiger. But when you can dream again, the story of today being what do you can dream on, it's just a delightful thing to see Tiger at his most human, his most vulnerable, like, kind of tearing up because again, we know the relationship he had with his own dad earlier, and he gets to be that character with his son again in a way that it's just a surreal story in the middle of the spotlight in a way that, yeah, I didn't expect Charlie to be this good a child actor, kind of like his dad also. But, yeah, heartwarming on a really cold winter.

Jonathan Lemire (50:17)

Yeah. And Tiger afterwards joking to his son, well, hey, after that whole one, you gotta buy everybody a beer now. Charlie responds, I'm broke. I can't. I'm pretty sure the woods family can find the money. I am confident to pick up a tab for others.

H (50:28)

And we should know Charlie's good for it.

Jonathan Lemire (50:30)

Like father, like son. It's Sunday. They wear red.

H (50:32)

That's right.

Jonathan Lemire (50:33)

So that's heck of a shot. HOST of Pablo Torre finds out Heck of a sweater. Yes, Pablo Torre from Meadowlark Media. Thank you. We will talk to you again. I like it.

H (50:42)

Greenland is for sale, I'm told. This is my I'm interested sweat.

Jonathan Lemire (50:46)

That's put me in the running for Greenland. I like it. Pablo, we will talk to you again real soon.

I (50:52)

Hey, friends, Ted Danson here, and I want to let you know about my new podcast. It's called Where Everybody Knows yous Name with Me, Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson. Sometimes doing this podcast is a chance for me and my good bud Woody to reconnect after cheers wrapped 30 years ago. Plus, we're introducing each other to the friends we've met since, like Jane Fonda, Conan O'Brien, Eric Andre, Mary Steenburgen, my wife and Flea from the Red Hot Chili Peppers. And trust me, it's always a great hanging when Woody's there. So why wait? Listen to where everybody knows your name, wherever you get your podcasts.