Loading summary
Transcript142 lines
- [00:00]
Rob Lowe
Hey everybody, it's Rob Lowe here. If you haven't heard, I have a podcast that's called Literally with Rob Lowe. And basically it's conversations I've had that really make you feel like you're pulling up a chair at an intimate dinner.
- [00:17]
Willie Geist
Between myself and people that I admire.
- [00:20]
Rob Lowe
Like Aaron Sorkin or Tiffany Haddish, Demi Moore, Chris Pratt, Michael J. Fox. There are new episodes out every Thursday, so subscribe please and listen wherever you get your podcasts. Work management platforms Ugh. Endless onboarding it bottlenecks, admin requests but.
- [00:43]
Katty Kay
What if things were different?
- [00:44]
Willie Geist
We found love in an open space.
- [00:47]
Rob Lowe
Monday.com is different. No lengthy onboarding, beautiful reports in minutes, custom workflows you can build on your own.
- [00:56]
Katty Kay
Easy to use prompt, free AI.
- [00:58]
Rob Lowe
Huh. Turns out you can love a work management platform. Monday.com the first work platform you'll love to use.
- [01:12]
Willie Geist
Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Friday, January 31st. With us this morning, the co host of our fourth hour, Jonathan Lemire. He's a contributing writer at the Atlantic covering the White House and national politics. And US Special correspondent for BBC News, Katty K. Our top story this morning again the crash DCA two nights ago. The National Transportation Safety Board has recovered now two black boxes from the passenger flight involved in the mid air collision with an army helicopter near Reagan National Airport. The American Airlines plane was coming from Wichita, Kansas on Wednesday night. It was making its final approach to the airport with a total of 64 people on board. The Black Hawk helicopter from Fort Belvoir was conducting a training mission with three soldiers aboard. The aircraft crashed into the Potomac river. Both all 67 people involved were killed. As of last night. Crews recovered about 40 bodies from the Potomac. Search efforts are set to resume this morning. Officials also discovered the plane's cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder. Both have been taken to a lab for evaluation by the ntsb. The cause of the crash has not yet been determined, but there are some concerns this morning over the level of staffing in the air traffic control tower the night of the crash. Typically, Reagan National Airport has one controller for planes and another for helicopters. But a source with knowledge of the situation tells NBC News on Wednesday there was only one controller handling both aircraft. While that is not ideal, it is acceptable under FAA standards. New air traffic control audio captured the moment leading up to the crash and the immediate reaction afterward.
- [02:58]
Rob Lowe
Pass through five in flight patch 2.5 passwind is TRJ. Crash, crash, crash.
- [03:03]
Aaron Gilchrist
This is alert three.
- [03:04]
Rob Lowe
Crash, crash, crash. This is alert three. We're looking for a aircraft versus a helicopter into the Potomac in the area of Reagan National Fire Command. The accident happened in the river. Both the helicopter and the plane crashed in the river. It's east of the approach end of Runway 33. It was probably out in the middle of the river. I just saw a fireball and then it was just gone. So I haven't seen anything since they hit the river. But it was a CRJ and a.
- [03:40]
Nancy Kerrigan
Helicopter that hit, I would say maybe.
- [03:42]
Rob Lowe
A half mile off the Approach end of 33.
- [03:45]
Willie Geist
Some chilling audio there. Meanwhile, we're learning more about some of the victims who died on Wednesday night in that collision above the Potomac. The Pentagon has not released the names of the three people aboard the downed Black Hawk helicopter, but Defense Secretary Pete Hegs has said said it was a fairly experienced crew, in his words. Family members have confirmed the deaths of the crew on board the American Airlines flight, including the pilot, first officer and two flight attendants. The plane's passengers included more than a dozen figure skaters, some as young as 12 years old. Coaches and parents with them returning from a training camp following the 2025 U.S. figure Skating Championships in Wichita, which, as I said, is where the flight originated. Two time Olympic figure skating medalist Nancy Kerrigan spoke about the tragedy during an emotional news conference yesterday at the prestigious Skating Club of Boston, of which she is an alumna, much like everyone here.
- [04:43]
Rob Lowe
Has been saying, is not sure how to process it. Oh, shoot, I'm sorry. Which is why I'm here. I think it's a shock. I was watching. I wasn't woken up in the morning and saw it. I was watching like all night. So I probably look tired, but. And then when you find out, you know, you know, some of the people.
- [05:14]
Nancy Kerrigan
On the plane, it's.
- [05:18]
Rob Lowe
Even a bigger blow going through something tragic. Not like this, but myself, that the.
- [05:24]
Nancy Kerrigan
Communities stood behind me and I grateful for that.
- [05:29]
Rob Lowe
And so it's my turn now to hopefully be here.
- [05:34]
Nancy Kerrigan
I'm not sure what it is to.
- [05:35]
Rob Lowe
Do, maybe get someone a cup of coffee, but hug, I'm here for hugs. I don't know, it's just I want to be able to give back what I feel like I got. The main lesson I think learned in skating is you get back up, keep.
- [05:51]
Nancy Kerrigan
On trying and even when it's hard, you get back up.
- [05:55]
Rob Lowe
Even when you're crying, hurt, pain, you get back up and move forward. It's not easy, but that's what we all have to do now together.
- [06:07]
Willie Geist
Kerrigan was flanked there by some of the legends of American figure skating. Two young skaters, members of the Skating Club of Boston, along with parents and two coaches were on board the flight. Also among those lost, five members of a Washington area based labor union, a professor at the Howard University School of Law, a group of friends returning from a duck hunting trip, an attorney and many more. Some of the victims loved ones spoke to reporters yesterday.
- [06:34]
Rob Lowe
It's, it's just feels crazy that it happened to us to be honest. I mean it's like you see these things happen in the news, you see them happen in other countries. And then I show up to the airport and my wife's not responding and I look on Twitter and I see that, that it's her flight was really.
- [06:57]
Willie Geist
Just kind of a force of nature. And about three years ago saw Nathan Chen in the Olympics and decided, hey.
- [07:09]
Rob Lowe
I could do that. He just was like a phenom and just loved it. And it wasn't anyone pushing him. He was just somebody who loved it.
- [07:19]
Willie Geist
And had natural talent but also just worked every day. Kind of just felt like a nightmare.
- [07:23]
Rob Lowe
And was hoping I would wake up and it, it would be that.
- [07:27]
Willie Geist
But it's a new reality that we.
- [07:29]
Rob Lowe
Just have to work through together.
- [07:32]
Willie Geist
Joining us now live from Reagan National Airport, NBC News correspondent Aaron Gilchrist. Aaron, you've been on this story from the very earliest hours. What more do we know today about the investigation?
- [07:46]
Aaron Gilchrist
Well, the investigation continues obviously, Willie. We know that the NTSB has taken control of the investigation part of this incident. We know that divers were in the water really from the first minutes after this crash happened up until late yesterday. They suspended the search and recovery operation last night. They will be back in the water today from the D.C. fire Department and several other agencies that have been helping with the recovery effort here. We also know that the NTSB has about 50 people here in this region that are working on this incident and they will be on the water with those divers today again trying to find pieces of what will really be information. They are on a fact finding mission, the NTSB to figure out exactly the how and why of this incident, what caused this crash and what they can do to prevent a similar incident from happening in the future. As you noted, we understand from our local station here in D.C. that about 40 of the victims have been recovered at this point from both the plane fuselage and the helicopter as well. The plane broke into at least three pieces when this crash happened the other night. And so investigators, divers were in the water searching for initially survivors and then of course trying to recover now the remains of all of those victims. An integral part of what the D.C. fire Department has been trying to do. The medical examiner in the city is now tasked with identifying those remains and making sure they are ultimately returned to their families. When the divers go back into the water today, we understand they'll be looking for additional parts, anything that would be a part of the salvage operation. The NTSB will take control of those elements as they have with the black boxes that were in the airplane. They already have those. And they start to try to piece together a story to figure out what was going on on the plane, in the cockpit, in the helicopter, in the moments before this crash happened. And that will inform all that they ultimately will determine, ultimately, they try to determine what caused this crash to happen. And all that information, along with interviews they'll do with people who were in the tower here at Reagan national, all that information will come together. It'll be months before we have some real solid ANSW from the ntsb, Willy. But as you might imagine, the investigation is getting a lot of attention. And this is something that will be really a central focus of the NTSB as they go forward with the search, recovery of pieces and trying to determine a cause here.
- [10:21]
Willie Geist
And as you say, just extraordinary work by those first responders. The fact that D.C. fire and EMS has already searched all the river that it can access at this point is just extraordinary, and we hope that they find the remainder of those bodies. Today, NBC's Aaron Gilchrist @ Reagan National Airport in Washington. Aaron, thanks so much. Let's bring in NBC News aviation analyst John Cox, who's a former pilot and accident investigator with more than 20 years of experience and really has been guiding us through this over the last 24 hours. John, thanks for being with us. I want to go back just to a few minutes ago. We got some of that new air traffic control audio the moments before the collision and then the moments after. Did you hear anything new? Did we learn anything new from what we heard there?
- [11:08]
John Cox
Willie? I don't think we've heard anything actually new. We knew yesterday when the first ATC tapes were released that the controller asked the helicopter if they could see the regional jet. The helicopter acknowledged it. The controller told them to pass behind the jet, and at that point it becomes the responsibility of the helicopter crew to maintain visual separation from the jet. What happened in the minutes after that, we don't know yet. And that's going to be one of the central questions and central areas of focus for the NTSB is what happened from the time that they acknowledge that they see the jet up to the Point of impact.
- [11:51]
Willie Geist
So John, any concerns from your end about this new reporting this morning that there was only one controller in the tower at the moment of the collision? The FAA saying it's not normal but it acceptable. What do you make of that, Willie?
- [12:06]
John Cox
I think that it says that the staffing was below optimum. But here again, once the helicopter crew says that they see the rj, they are then responsible to maintain separation from the jet. So whether there's one controller or two, the responsibility for separation at that point resides with the helicopter crew.
- [12:29]
Katty Kay
John, thank you again for joining us this morning. There have been some speculation in the last 24 hours or so because we've heard the audio of the helicopter crew acknowledging they see the jet. Some have wondered if perhaps the helicopter crew saw the wrong jet that was acknowledging a different aircraft and not the one from Wichita, which it would definitely collide later. Collide now. We don't know for sure. So I'm not asking you to weigh in as if that's what you think happened here. But is that the sort of thing that is possible? Have you seen perhaps in previous incidents where pilots, particularly helicopter, these helicopter pilots with low visibility, hard to see what's going on, so many lights, crowded airspace. Does that sound like something that could be possible to you?
- [13:10]
John Cox
It's certainly something that NTSB will look at. If they misidentified the airplane, then this could explain the flight path of the helicopter. We don't know that yet and it may be very hard to determine. They will certainly look to see the angle at which the helicopter pilots would have seen the approaching RJ and potentially the one behind it. So that question is going to get a lot of attention. But as it stands right now, this morning, we don't have an answer for that.
- [13:43]
Katty Kay
And let's also talk about elevation reporting yesterday that the helicopter may have been a little higher than it should have been. Just speak to us broadly, perhaps in a crowded airspace like this. You know, we talked yesterday about how that DCA Runway is either seeing a plane land or take off every minute, every minute or two. You know, how important is it and how difficult is it to juggle these various aircrafts at various elevations because it is of course a multi dimensional space here.
- [14:12]
John Cox
The term elevation is unusual in aviation. It's normally altitude. The fact that if the helicopter was above 200ft, then they were out of the airspace, they were cleared to fly in. I have landed on that Runway many, many times. I've had helicopters go below me, many. So the flight path of the helicopter and The RJ are going to be examined in great detail. If the helicopter was above 200ft, then it presents a problem and that it could be one of the issues that are contributing or causal to this tragedy.
- [14:50]
David Rhode
John, can we talk about the crowding more broadly at Reagan? You've talked about landing there with helicopters around you as well. We know now that there are stories from pilots over the last couple of years of at least two incidents of near misses where planes had to take evasive action to avoid helicopters as they came in to land. We had members of Congress just last year, a group of them, express concerns about the potential for risks because of the number of flights that are now landing at Reagan. Do you think it needs Reagan Airport and its schedule and the number of flights that are landing, as well as the military aircraft there. Does that need revisiting?
- [15:29]
John Cox
I certainly think it needs to be looked at, but we have used these procedures for decades and safely, effectively, and I won't say it's totally routine. Reagan is a challenging airport. I always enjoyed flying in and out of there because it does require skill and it is a satisfying feeling to be able to get the jet where it needs to be on speed. But before we start making major changes, we need to recognize these procedures have worked really well for many, many decades. So I'm hesitant to say blanketly, oh, we should change it when we've had this level of success. Have there been cases, certainly where there have been conflicts, but they've been resolved safely. So I think we just need to be careful before we make any changes.
- [16:26]
David Rhode
I guess what I'm asking is we know that the number of flights is increasing every year out of Reagan from congressional demand, from the demand of this city that is growing. The number of runways hasn't increased in decades. Is there a point at which you have to assess we just have too many flights for the size of this airport, or are you saying actually we can carry on exponentially expanding the number of flights and still keep the airport safe?
- [16:51]
John Cox
There's certainly a limit, but it's the separation limits that are already in place so that the there is a limit about how many aircraft per hour that can come in and out of Reagan, and we've been able to use that successfully for a really long time. Does that mean that there's no growth possible? I think we're going to have to look at that, but I don't think it's fair to say categorically, okay, we have too many airplanes. We'll have to go to cut Reagan back. I don't I don't think that the statistics validate that. I don't think that that warrant that. So I think it's something to be looked at. And so long as we maintain the current separation standards, I think it's proven to be safe.
- [17:39]
Willie Geist
So, John, the NTSB now has those two black boxes, the flight data recorders, to help with the investigation. We'll be looking at all the evidence that we've seen publicly. We just heard that air traffic control backstage and forth. As you say, it looks like perhaps pilot error involved here, that they were given the warning the pilot about the plane, perhaps saw the wrong plane. We don't know yet. But where will the investigation go from here? Now that they do have those black boxes?
- [18:04]
John Cox
They'll certainly get all the data they can from the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder, particularly the cockpit voice recorder will give insight into what the pilots knew and didn't know. And Willie, to say that we know that we feel like that it's a pilot error accident, I think that's premature at this point. We know what the helicopter pilots said and we know the flight path. Until we can very carefully look and that track of these airplane, of these aircraft, I think that we have to keep an open mind. Everything's still on the table right now as far as the investigators are concerned.
- [18:42]
Willie Geist
And they're looking at equipment failure as well as a possibility. But we'll just have to wait and see here. NBC News aviation analyst John Cox. We're so lucky to have you on days like these. We appreciate you, John. Thanks. And still ahead on MORNING Joe, President Trump facing blistering criticism this morning for suggesting diversity programs are to blame for Wednesday night's air disaster. We'll show you those new remarks and the reaction. Plus the latest from Capitol Hill as three of the president's most controversial nominees appeared before lawmakers for confirmation hearings yesterday. We are back. Back in 90 seconds.
- [19:20]
Katty Kay
Hey, this is Jeff Lewis from Radio Andy Live and uncensored. Catch me talking with my friends about my latest obsessions, relationship issues and bodily ailments. With that kind of drama that seems to follow me, you never know what's going to happen.
- [19:32]
Willie Geist
You can listen to Jeff Lewis live at home or anywhere you are. Download the SiriusXM app for over 425.
- [19:40]
Rob Lowe
Channels of ad, free music, sports, entertainment and more. Subscribe now and get 3 months free offer details apply. Auto insurance can all seem the same.
- [19:53]
John Cox
Until it comes time to use it.
- [19:55]
Rob Lowe
So don't get stuck paying more for less coverage. Switch to USAA Auto insurance and you could start saving money in no time. Get a quote today.
- [20:03]
Willie Geist
Restrictions apply.
- [20:04]
Rob Lowe
Usaa. Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach?
- [20:12]
Willie Geist
Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families.
- [20:16]
Rob Lowe
With Greenlight, you can set up chores.
- [20:18]
Willie Geist
Automate allowance and keep an eye on.
- [20:20]
Rob Lowe
Your kids spending with real time notifications.
- [20:22]
Willie Geist
Kids learn to earn, save and spend wisely.
- [20:25]
Rob Lowe
And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place. Sign up for Greenlight today@Greenlight.com podcast.
- [20:36]
Nancy Kerrigan
Have you spoken to families of the.
- [20:37]
Rob Lowe
Victims of the plane crash? I don't want to comment on that. Do you have a plan to go visit the site or meet with any of those? I have a plan to visit. Is it not the site? Because you tell me what's the site to order or to meet with the first responders down there? I don't have a plan to do that, but I will be meeting with some people that were very badly hurt with their family member, obviously, but I'll be meeting with some of the families. Yeah.
- [21:00]
Willie Geist
President Trump yesterday with that flippant response to reporters saying, what do you want me to do, go swimming to go to the site of that tragedy over the Potomac river yesterday? And saying he's going to meet with people who are very badly hurt. Sadly, there are no people who are very badly hurt. They're all presumed dead this morning. Earlier in the day, Trump appeared in the White House briefing room where he suggested diversity programs put in place by the Biden and Obama administrations somehow caused Wednesday night's tragedy.
- [21:28]
Rob Lowe
We must have only the highest standards for those who work in our aviation system. I changed the Obama standards from very mediocre at best to extraordinary. I put safety first. Obama, Biden and the Democrats put policy first. And they put politics at a level that nobody's ever seen. They put a big push to put diversity into the FAA's program. The FAA is actively recruiting workers who suffer severe intellectual disabilities, psychiatric problems, and other mental and physical conditions under a diversity and inclusion hiring initiatives spelled out on the agency's website. Can you imagine? They actually came out with a directive too white, and we want the people that are competent.
- [22:21]
Willie Geist
I'm trying to figure out how you can come to the conclusion right now that diversity had something to do with.
- [22:27]
Rob Lowe
This crash, because I have common sense, okay? And unfortunately, a lot of people don't. We want brilliant people doing this, this.
- [22:37]
Willie Geist
So again, the president going to the briefing room yesterday as they were still pulling the bodies out of The Potomac suggesting it was DEI that caused this disaster. The president's citing diversity standards imposed by previous administrations. The Washington Post is fact checking the president's claims. This morning. The paper reporting the Obama administration in 2013 instituted a new hiring system for air traffic controllers that introduced a biographical questionnaire to attract minorities underrepresented in the controller corps. But Trump in his this first term left the policy in place. And the FAA under Trump in 2019 launched a program to hire controllers using the very criteria he decried at his news conference. NBC's Peter Alexander pressed the president on that.
- [23:23]
Katty Kay
The cited FAA text that you read.
- [23:25]
Rob Lowe
Is real, but the implication that this policy is new or that it stems from efforts that began under President Biden or the Transportation Secretary, Pete Buttigieg, is demonstrably false.
- [23:35]
Katty Kay
It's been on the FAA's website.
- [23:37]
Rob Lowe
No, it's on the website.
- [23:38]
Katty Kay
The FAA's website.
- [23:39]
Rob Lowe
It was there in 2013.
- [23:40]
Katty Kay
It was there for the entirety.
- [23:42]
Rob Lowe
It was there for the entirety of your administration, too. So my question is, why didn't you change the policy during your first administration? I did change it. I changed the Obama policy. And we had a very good policy. And then Biden came in and he changed it.
- [23:55]
Willie Geist
He did not change the policy again. And Jonathan Lemire, the fact that we're even having this conversation, this semantic argument over who put the policy in place as some kind of suggestion that it is what led to a helicopter flying into a passenger jet killing 67 people without any evidence. Why are we even talking about that to begin with? But you wrote about this for the Atlantic yesterday, about the president behaving like he's still running a campaign or that he's a businessman sitting at Mar A Lago lobbing conspiracy theories and attacks on opponents. What did you see in that briefing room yesterday, John?
- [24:29]
Katty Kay
Yeah, yeah, I was in the room when the president addressed the press there. The brief, something he wanted to do, didn't defer to any of his officials. He himself wanted the spotlight, wanted the microphone, wanted the cameras. White House officials told me, yes, this is yet another moment here, first of all, where fact checking is really important. And good job by Peter, our colleague Peter Alexander. Good work there by the Washington Post. It is worth reiterating. This is again, the first policies, the diversity initiatives were put in place by President Obama. Trump, while he was president, left them there. And then it was his own faa, when he was in charge, that promoted programs about hiring those with disabilities to join that agency. And that yesterday, he, of course, tried to blame them in a Wedge issue speaking, you know, in moments after a crisis, our nation reeling from it, choosing once again division. Also lying about his record. Very reminiscent, I will say of during the presidential campaign when he gained much traction from then Vice President Harris and the idea of transition surgery provided for inmates in prisons. Well, we fact checked it at the time and found that that program also existed under the Trump administration. He of course, when his Bureau of Prisons promoted it, he of course did not change it while he was in office. But bigger picture, Willie, it's another moment where this president took a time of national tragedy and tried to use to score political points and attack his foes. We've seen it a few times this month. The wildfires in Southern California. He blamed that on Democratic politicians before he was sworn in. The terror attack in New Orleans on New Year's Day. He blamed that on the border when it turned out, of course, that it was a US Citizen in Texas who carried out the attacks. His instinct is never to bring people together, but even in some stunning fashion try to blame others and point fingers when of course as president the ultimate responsibility should be lying with him.
- [26:26]
Willie Geist
And you can almost see him anticipating blame of his administration in some way and projecting that onto everyone else. He also blamed former Transport Secretary Pete Buttigieg for various issues within the faa. Buttigieg responded on social media writing, quote, despicable. As families grieve, Trump should be leading, not lying. We put safety first, drove down close calls, grew air traffic control and had zero commercial airline crash fatalities out of millions of flights on our watch. President Trump now oversees the military and the faa. One of his first acts was to fire and suspend some of the key personnel who helped to keep our skies safe. Time for the president to show actual and explain what he will do to prevent this from happening again. That's former Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg. Katty Kay, watching the president yesterday in that briefing room where Jonathan saw up close reminded of people who said, you know what, he won a second term. Now he's a two term president. He did it. Maybe he'll settle in and be the president a lot of people hoped he could be and put behind him the grievances and personal attacks and all of the things that he used to get back to the White House on the campaign trail. But in this first week, clearly no evidence that that's going to happen.
- [27:37]
David Rhode
Yeah, or even that this would be the kind of calmer, more grown up version of the first administration. With Susie Wiles in as commander in chief, there had been some speculation that yes they would move fast. The policies might not be policies that many Democrats would agree with, but things would be efficient and work effectively. I think what we've seen in the last 48 hours is that that is not necessarily case. We saw all of the funding drawn back for domestic grants in the country that had to be overturned very quickly. Then we saw the, and the response to the crash. But it looks like Donald Trump is feeling extremely powerful and realizing that even if he says something or goes too far, then he's not going to get much pushback. Right? I mean, yes, Pete Buttigieg came out with a tweet saying that this was despicable, but you have not had a complete outcry uniform from members of the Democratic Party responding to what President Trump did, effectively blaming black, brown people, women, people with disabilities for that air crash. I mean, let's be honest. You know, that's what diversity is, and that is what the president said, that black, brown people, women and people with disabilities caused this crash. I mean, where is the outcry from a coordinated outcry from Democrats now? They've been tied up. They've been tied up in the hearings on Capitol Hill. It's just this sense that Donald Trump wants to have a fight. The fact that he signed a memorandum even after that press conference doesn't suggest at all that he thinks he went too far in that press conference. Quite the contrary. He wants to push it even further. And he thinks that there'll be, even if nothing happens that's positive, there'll be very little pushback from a Congress that seems to be either cowed on the Democratic side or compliant on the Republican side.
- [29:20]
Willie Geist
Yeah, not much criticism yesterday from Republicans. There were a group of Democrats held a press conference led by Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, who very specifically and clearly criticized the president for using this moment to sow division again. We'll have much more on the plane crash, with a focus on the investigation and the victims coming up shortly. Also, MSNBC legal correspondent Lisa Rubin will join us with a look at her interview with a former federal prosecutor who worked on some of the January 6th Capitol riot cases. Plus, President Trump's pick for FBI Director Cash Patel appears to distance himself from the president's sweeping pardons of those rioters during his Senate confirmation hearing. Morning Joe's coming right back.
- [30:18]
Katty Kay
Hey, this is Jeff Lewis from Radio Andy, live and uncensored. Catch me talking with my friends about my latest obsessions, relationship issues and bodily ailments. With that kind of drama that seems to follow me, you never know what's going to happen.
- [30:30]
Willie Geist
You can listen to Jeff Lewis live at home or anywhere you are downloading.
- [30:35]
Rob Lowe
The SiriusXM app for over 425 channels of AD, free music, sports, entertainment and more.
- [30:41]
Willie Geist
Subscribe now and get 3 months free.
- [30:44]
Rob Lowe
Offer Details Apply Auto insurance can all seem the same until it comes time to use it, so don't get stuck paying more for less coverage. Switch to USA Auto insurance and you could start saving money in no time. Get a quote today.
- [31:00]
John Cox
Today restrictions apply.
- [31:04]
Rob Lowe
Did you know adults with financial literacy skills have 82% more wealth than those who don't?
- [31:09]
Nancy Kerrigan
From swimming lessons to piano classes.
- [31:11]
Rob Lowe
As parents we invest in so many things to enrich our kids lives, but how much are we investing in their future financial success? With Greenlight, you can teach your kids essential skills like earning, saving and investing.
- [31:21]
Willie Geist
Giving them the tools for financial confidence.
- [31:24]
Rob Lowe
This investment costs less than an after school treat at Starbucks. Start prioritizing their financial education today with Greenlight. Invest in their future@greenlight.com podcast I have rejected any violence against law enforcement and I have, including in that group, specifically addressed any violence against law enforcement on January 6th. And I do not agree with the commutation of any sentence of any individual who committed violence against law enforcement. I've been thanking these Capitol Police officers and I told them I thought, I actually thought that the pardons of people who did harm to police officers sucked. And I told them that at every one of these security entrances when I come in. And I stand by it. And I respectfully disagree with the President or whoever likely gave him advice because the president has to rely on best advice for some of these executive orders. But I make no apology for saying that the men and women on Capitol Hill that got us safely to this building are heroes. The people who harmed them are thugs.
- [32:29]
Willie Geist
That's Republican Senator Thom Tillis of North Carolina. And before that, Cash Patel, President Trump's pick to be director of the FBI, distancing themselves very clearly from Trump's pardons of the violent January 6th rioters, especially those who attacked police officers. That was during Patel's confirmation hearing yesterday. Patel was not the only nominee grilled by senators over their past comments. Tulsi Gallery Gabbard, Trump's choice for director of national intelligence, also appeared before a Senate committee yesterday in an equally contentious hearing. NBC News chief Capitol Hill correspondent Ryan Nobles has more A pair of President.
- [33:06]
Rob Lowe
Trump's top national security nominees facing high stakes confirmation hearings. There will be no politicization at the FBI. Former federal prosecutor Cash Patel nominated for FBI director, the staunch Trump supporter pressed by Democrats about his independence. Would you be willing to resign the post of FBI director if pressed and given no choice but to obey the order or resign? Senator, I will always obey the law and President Trump's pardons of violent offenders from January 6th. I do not agree with the commutation of any sentence of any individual who committed violence against law enforcement. Patel, strongly defended by Republicans. The reason you're here is called because most of the public, almost every Republican, believes that the FBI has been used continuously in a political fashion, lying to get Donald Trump across the Capitol. Former Democratic congresswoman and combat veteran Tulsi Gabbard nominated for Director of National Intelligence.
- [34:06]
Nancy Kerrigan
What truly unsettles my political opponents is.
- [34:09]
Rob Lowe
I refuse to be their puppet. Gabbard, pushing back on claims she parroted Kremlin talking points. I want to make certain that in no way does Russia get a pass in either your mind or your heart. I'm offended by the question because my sole focus, commitment and responsibility, is about our own nation. And pressed over her previous call for a pardon for Edward Snowden, who fled the US after releasing a trove of government secrets.
- [34:39]
John Cox
Is Edward Snowden a traitor to the.
- [34:42]
Willie Geist
United States of America?
- [34:44]
Nancy Kerrigan
I understand how critical our national security is.
- [34:47]
Willie Geist
Apparently you don't. NBC's Ryan Nobles reporting from Capitol Hill. Let's bring in NBC News senior Executive Editor for National Security, David Rhode. He was in the room yesterday for Kash Patel's confirmation hearing. David, good morning. What were your impressions as you sat and listened? Kash Patel doing what nominees do from time to time, which is say the right things over the course of those hours to get themselves confirmed, but also often in stark contrast with everything they've said for years before that hearing.
- [35:18]
Rob Lowe
Yeah, and thank you for pointing that out. That clip of him saying he disagreed with the commutations regarding January 6 was the one moment where he did shift from his past statements in this memoir. He wrote, he, I'm not sure the exact wording at this point, but he, he called January 6th and the charges that were brought a major insurrection when he was asked under oath yesterday why he went on podcasts with hosts that have expressed anti Semitic and conspiracist views. He said, I went on there to tell them, to make them, you know, confront them with the truth. That's why I went on there. And he didn't actually, you know, do that, as far as I know, when he appeared on those broadcasts. So he was very evasive. He wouldn't say that Joe Biden won the 2020 election. And then separately, there was news that it was reported by my colleagues Kendallane and Ryan Reilly, that already dismissals of senior officials in the FBI have begun. Yesterday, several of them were told to leave. So it was a very confusing message yesterday.
- [36:18]
Katty Kay
So, David, part of why Patel has drawn such scrutiny is there's first this belief that he will do whatever Donald Trump will ask him to do. He has said that in the past. And also, of course, he has an enemies list printed for all to see in the back of his book. And we certainly believe, you know, people he potentially go after is more expansive than those just written down there. Did that come up yesterday? What did he say about this idea of using the Department of Justice to carry out retribution?
- [36:43]
Rob Lowe
He vowed he wouldn't do it, as you saw Senator Graham say. He said that, you know, the Democrats have used it for weaponization. I'm not going to do that. And he insists, he says in the book, over and over, there are criminal members of the deep state. And it's a list of people that he says are members of the deep state. And he just denies that. He sort of, you know, know, distorted his own past, I felt, and I think that it's very concerning. One of the things we've also learned is that there's a half dozen advisers who've arrived at the Justice Department, sorry, at the FBI and are working on the director's floor of the seventh floor. Two of them are, have, are affiliated in some way with SpaceX. One of them is a former aide of Representative Jim Jordan, a real, you know, a Republican who's been incredibly negative and, you know, criticizing the current FBI. And this is all unprecedented. After J. Edgar Hoover's decades of abuse, there was massive reforms in the 1970s. There's only been one political appointee in the entire FBI for 50 years. That's the director. You now have a half dozen people coming in. The workforce doesn't know who they are. And current FBI officials are very worried about what's happening.
- [37:50]
Katty Kay
So it was a blockbuster day on the Hill yesterday because there are two other major hearings. Let's talk about those now. Second day of Bobby Kennedy Junior's hearings for hhs, he still again seemed confused about the very basics of Medicare and Medicaid. It was interesting. I caught my attention. Senator Cassidy, physician himself, really pressed him on questions there at the end that Kennedy didn't answer all that well. Some believe that maybe Cassidy creating a path to get to know maybe he would be a fourth vote. We're not sure. And there's also Tulsi Gabbard, who and I'll just read from it here, some Republicans who maybe went into this hearing inclined to support her, at least giving her the benefit of doubt, maybe not just a few reactions here. Senator Lankford from Oklahoma, who previously previously said he backed Gabbard, said afterwards there are a lot of questions now. Senator Curtis of Utah said the hearing deepened his concerns about her judgment. Todd Young of Indiana, who we saw a little bit there clashing her with about Edward Snowden, said, quote, I've got for now at least all the information I need. And then Senator Josh Hawley, who was a Trump supporter to the hilt, said, I'm worried that her nomination may be in jeopardy. Tell us particularly on that one, since it's the national security world. Tell us what you're hearing about Gabbard and her chances.
- [39:00]
Rob Lowe
I think she's in the most trouble. And it's partly bluntly that she's a former Democrat and there were sort of basic questions that she wouldn't answer a question from a Democrat about, you know, Edward Snowden. And so I think she's in the most trouble. And what's fascinating in this deeply divided Senate is a single vote could make a difference. Pete Hegseth was one vote away from being blocked. Thom Tillis didn't vote against him. So I think she's in trouble. I think Kennedy again, Cassidy, it was amazing to watch him as a physician bring up all these issues with, you know, all these vaccines that he's seen as a physician help people. So if there is a flip, it would be those two nominations. But I do think that Kash Patel will get through and be confirmed.
- [39:43]
David Rhode
David, talk a little bit more about Thom Tillis. My understanding had been that he hadn't been keen on Pete Hegseth, didn't think he was necessarily quite qualified for the job. But because he is up for reelection himself in 2026, he doesn't want to jeopardize his own chances of becoming senator again. Why would he take a different stance on Tulsi Gabbard? Is there a feeling that somebody like Tillis has a pass on one of these and that's just where he's choosing to play his get out of jail free card, as it were. Or is this genuinely that he is more concerned about Gabbard than he might have been about Hexith?
- [40:16]
Rob Lowe
It's fascinating and a great question and we've been reporting on it and we'll try to report more. Danielle Hegseth, the former sister in law of Pete Hegseth said that she was promised by a senator. It appears that was Senator Tillis. I don't know for sure here that if she said on the record that Hegseth had acted in such a volatile manner that he caused his second wife to fear for her safety, that votes would flip. In a statement after he was confirmed, confirmed, Danielle Hegseth talked about how she was promised and her sense of frustration, talked about different NDAs that could force women who suffer abuse from not being able to speak out. So why he chose that vote, it's not clear, but it's something we're still pursuing. But he embraced Cash Patel yesterday very effusively. And many Republican senators, again, fear more a challenge, a primary challenge from the Republicans. Right. Than anything else. And that might be, you know, driving him at this point.
- [41:18]
Willie Geist
And some of those are way down the road as you look at election schedules. But they're still worried about a vote today. It could cost them years away. David, stay with us. Let's bring in former litigator and MSNBC legal correspondent Lisa Rubin, who sat down for an interview with a former federal prosecutor of some of the violent January 6th rioters pardoned by President Trump. Lisa, good morning. So what did you hear? This has to be incredibly frustrating, probably isn't even the word for someone who put together a case, built all these cases, won convictions, just to see the jails opened up so people could walk out.
- [41:50]
Nancy Kerrigan
WILLIE that's absolutely right. Yesterday, I interviewed Alexis Loeb, who worked in the Justice Department for over a decade, most recently on the department's sprawling effort to prosecute cases related to the January 6th insurrection. And we spoke about her reaction to President Trump's pardons of the Capitol rioters. Do you have concerns about your safety in the wake of these pardons? Pardons Whenever prosecutors bring cases, particularly cases involving violence, that is a risk that you take on as a prosecutor. But apart from my role as a prosecutor, I have concerns as an American about what happens now that all of these defendants have been given a pass of some quite serious crimes and what kind of message that sends to them or others who may be considering, considering committing acts of political violence in the future. WILLIE Alexis and I also spoke about FBI director nominee Kash Patel, who, despite his comments at yesterday's hearing, has set up alarm bells in the Department of Justice about his potential lack of independence from President Trump. Mr. Patel today was told by a senator of President Trump's own party that he believed that the pardons, and you'll excuse my language, suck Is there anything that you want to say to Kash Patel on the eve of his presumably becoming director of the FBI? The pardons can't be undone at this point, but what Mr. Patel can do is that going forward, as the head of the FBI, he has the power to remain vigilant and to stop further acts of political violence and to respond when those happen and take them seriously and make sure that future acts of political violence, violence are not treated with impunity and are investigated as they should be.
- [43:44]
Katty Kay
So additionally, President Trump's interim U.S. attorney for Washington, D.C. ed Martin, has set a deadline of today for members of his office to issue a preliminary report on the department's prosecutions of those Capitol rioters. Before he joined the Trump administration, Martin, of course, was a Stop the Steal advocate advocate who spoke at the Capitol on January 5th and was on the Capitol grounds during the riot. The next day, as the mob breached the building, Martin tweeted in part, like Mardi Gras in D.C. today, love, faith and joy. The internal review, which has been dubbed Project 1512 because of the federal statute it deals with, deals specifically with the DOJ's charging of an obstruction of justice justice charge that the Supreme Court ruled was applied too broadly to some of these January 6th cases. And, Lisa, I mean, this is someone who, I mean, we can't say it more plainly than that. He was a Stop the Steal advocate. He was there pushing the lie that Donald Trump won that election. And here he is looking at the investigations.
- [44:49]
Nancy Kerrigan
He is not only looking at the investigations, but he's basically doing a sweeping internal review, John, of those prosecutions trying to. To investigate the investigators, which is something Pam Bondi, who is now the nominee for Attorney general, very famously said on television before her nominations hearings. Now, I recently obtained an internal email from Ed Martin to his colleagues that has previously been reported on by other outlets, but never before in its entirety. In the email, Martin goes out of his way to single out former federal prosecutor Ashley Akers, who joined you on Morning Joe earlier this week. Akers resigned from the department late last week and has since publicly called Martin's review a wild goose chase. Martin wrote in part, quote, someone named Ashley Akers has been going on television badmouthing our work and me. I have never met her, so I find her comments disconnected from reality. I will be reaching out to her. Maybe she had issues with her supervisors or my predecessor. We will see if we can help her. Alexis Loeb, the federal prosecutor I spoke with Yesterday, personally knows Ms. Akers, and we have her first reaction to that email saying she was unnerved by Martin calling out Akers by name. Take a look. What did you think when you heard about Mr. Martin's comments about Ms. Akers? I found it chilling to name her specifically for making comments that don't seem disconnected from reality at all. Ms. Akers comments reflected the facts that the department proved at trial after trial after trial of these defendants. You mentioned that you found Mr. Martin's email chilling, and yet you're sitting here with me in a conference room doing an interview. Why? It's important for people to understand the facts about the cases, the facts of what happened at the Capitol on January 6th. And it's also important for them to understand that these were not political prosecutions. They were staffed by career employees of the Department of Justice. They were conducted in partnership with FBI agents from around the country. People of all political persuasions came to work together on these cases because they understood that it was wrong to assault officers and it was wrong to attack the Capitol and the peaceful transfer of power on that day.
- [47:07]
Katty Kay
Lisa, terrific and important interview. David, let's get you to react to it, to weigh in on this idea of. Because it's not just looking backwards and investigating the investigators, but also sending a message about any possible investigations into the Trump administration going forward.
- [47:22]
Rob Lowe
Yeah, I mean, we talked about it. But along with many pardons was the pardon of the proud boys, the group that Donald Trump said during a presidential debate, stand back and stand by. So that's the message to the perpetrators of this. And we've seen this across the Justice Department and the FBI. People involved in any kind of investigation of Donald Trump. Trump are being reassigned, some of them are being reassigned to a new task force to prosecute officials in sanctuary cities who are seen as not enforcing federal immigration law. So this is payback. It's very clear to people. People are very unnerved in the Justice Department, the FBI, and it's, as far as I know, unprecedented, and it is a chilling message.
- [48:03]
Katty Kay
Lisa, final word to you.
- [48:05]
Nancy Kerrigan
I think it's important that people like Alexis Loeb have spoken out. The bravery that she and folks like Ashley Akers and Jason Manning, who spoke with NBC News last week with Ryan Reilly, have shown is remarkable. And yet the incentives for people like them to talk to folks like us, there is no incentive for them, because we can see that what Ed Martin is doing in collecting up all these documents as part of his preliminary review, that looks to me like the precursor to something more than an investigation that starts to look like I know exactly who to blame and where to lay that blame. And to the extent that that materializes into not just firings but prosecutions, there are reasons for folks to be scared. So I appreciate very much that Alexis decided to speak with us.
- [48:46]
Willie Geist
John, you might even say they're weaponizing the Justice Department, MSNBC legal correspondent Lisa Rubin and NBC News senior executive editor for national security David Rhode. Thank you both very much. Still ahead, we'll go live to Reagan National Airport, where NBC's Tom Costello is standing by with more about the victims, 67 of them, in that fatal midair crash. Also, new details about the BL black boxes that have now been recovered from the wreckage. Also ahead this morning, Democratic Senators Chris Coons of Delaware and Tim Kaine of Virginia will join our conversation, all of it when MORNING JOE comes right back about the victims of Wednesday night's midair collision over the Potomac. This morning, NBC News senior national correspondent Tom Yamas has their story.
- [49:37]
Rob Lowe
In that stunning moment of horror, Flight 5342 was only minutes away from landing.
- [49:43]
Katty Kay
When the lives of its 60 passengers and four crew members suddenly ended.
- [49:49]
Rob Lowe
The violent collision with the US Army Blackhawk helicopter, also killing three US service members, an army captain, staff sergeant and Chief Warrant Officer, 67 lives lost in an instant. And last night, as friends and family of the victims prayed for a miracle, there was little hope because after that collision in the sky, both aircraft plummeted into the Potomac river, the icy waters.
- [50:15]
Katty Kay
That were only waist deep and about 35 degrees.
- [50:18]
Rob Lowe
We spoke with DC's fire chief moments before he went to meet with those victims families.
- [50:24]
Katty Kay
When you go into a meeting like that, I mean, what goes through your.
- [50:26]
Rob Lowe
Head and what do you want to tell them? They're going to ask us questions and.
- [50:29]
Katty Kay
We'Re going to do our best to answer those questions with the facts.
- [50:32]
Rob Lowe
The first officer of the American Airlines flight was Sam Lilly, his father posting he was so proud when Sam became a pilot. Also on the flight, some of the.
- [50:42]
Katty Kay
Country'S most promising young figure skaters who.
- [50:45]
Rob Lowe
Were in Wichita at a highly selective training camp.
- [50:49]
Willie Geist
There are brothers and sisters and we're.
- [50:51]
Rob Lowe
All very close to each other. Other the skating club of Boston devastated. Six affiliated with the club perished. Olympic figure skater Nancy Kerrigan trained with the club as a team, much like everyone here has been saying, is not sure how to process it. Oh, shoot, I'm sorry. For 1956 Olympic champion Tenley Albert Bright, the tragedy brought back memories of the 1961 plane crash that killed 18 U.S. figure skaters. I really can't believe that it happened because I picture them right here. Among Those lost now 13 year old skater Gina Hahn and her mother Jin. Gina was known for her grace and musicality on the ice and 16 year old Spencer who was traveling with his mom Christine. Spencer was known for his jumps chronicling his progress on TikTok, his final post on Instagram, this view from his plane window before takeoff. Skating is a very close and tight knit community.
- [52:05]
John Cox
It's a close, tight bond and I.
- [52:10]
Katty Kay
Think for all of us.
- [52:11]
Willie Geist
We have lost family.
- [52:13]
Rob Lowe
Also on board, skating coaches and former world champions Genya Shishkova and Vadim Nomov. The married couple leaves behind their son.
- [52:22]
Katty Kay
Max, a skater hoping to qualify for.
- [52:25]
Rob Lowe
The Winter Olympics next year.
- [52:27]
Katty Kay
Brielle byer was only 12 years old.
- [52:30]
Rob Lowe
Her mom Justina Magdalena with her on the plane remembered at her home rink in Virginia. She is really, really talented and they were my inspiration.
- [52:41]
Willie Geist
Well, just heartbreaking. We heard a little bit earlier in the show from the father of Spencer Lane, the 16 year old skater who was inspired to get on the ice by Nathan Chen, the American Olympic champion. And now he and his mother killed in that crash. Tom Yamas reporting there. The National Transportation Safety Board has now recovered the two black boxes from the passenger flight involved in that midair collision. As of last night, crews had recovered about 40 bodies from the the river. Search efforts set to resume this morning. Officials also discovered the plane's cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder.
- [53:17]
Rob Lowe
Auto insurance can all seem the same.
- [53:19]
John Cox
Until it comes time to use it.
- [53:21]
Rob Lowe
So don't get stuck paying more for less coverage. Switch to USA Auto Insurance and you could start saving money in no time. Get a quote today, restrictions apply.