Morning Joe 1/8/25

Summary

Morning Joe Episode Summary – January 8, 2025

Hosted by Joe Scarborough, Mika Brzezinski, and Willie Geist, "Morning Joe" dives deep into the day's most pressing political and social issues. In the January 8, 2025 episode, the hosts navigate through a spectrum of topics ranging from President Elect Donald Trump's controversial statements to the ongoing crisis of Southern California wildfires, Meta's significant policy shifts, and the broader implications of income inequality and tech monopolies.

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1. President Elect Donald Trump's Aggressive Foreign Policy Rhetoric

One of the standout segments of the episode centered around President Elect Donald Trump's recent statements suggesting the use of military and economic force to gain control over regions such as the Panama Canal, Greenland, and even contemplating the acquisition of Canada.

• Joe Scarborough initiated the discussion by highlighting Trump's provocative remarks:

  "We're going to be changing the name of the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America." [00:10]

• Mika Brzezinski added a satirical note:

  "Stayed up almost all night drinking Diet Cokes to come up with the Gulf of America." [01:52]

• Sam Stein provided a critical analysis:

  "He is talking about tariffs, he's talking about economic pressure, talk about withholding aid... suggesting that he would use military force to reclaim the Panama Canal, which... would be an extraordinary step." [06:33]

• Claudia Ashray emphasized the potential chaos of such rhetoric:

  "If he's talking about deporting 13 million illegal immigrants, always understand that's the opening hand of the negotiations." [20:22]

Insights & Implications: The panelists debated whether Trump's statements were mere bluster or indicative of a broader strategic approach. Sam Stein warned of the dangers of such rhetoric, suggesting it signals instability to global powers like Russia and China, potentially affecting U.S. alliances and international relations.

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2. Southern California Wildfires and Environmental Crisis

The episode shed light on the devastating wildfires in Southern California, exacerbated by unprecedented high winds, leading to mass evacuations and significant property damage.

• Claudia Ashray reported live from the scene:

  "Panic in the Pacific Palisades as a wind-driven wildfire blazes through one of Southern California's most iconic neighborhoods." [07:50]

• Meteorologist Angie Lassman detailed the severity:

  "Wind gusts are expected to reach 100 miles per hour, pushing the fires to spread explosively across the region." [10:03]

• Willie Geist connected the crisis to presidential actions:

  "John too, President Biden is out there in Southern California... he has put out a statement. Vice President Harris, a similar statement." [11:26]

Insights & Implications: The discussion highlighted the current administration's response to natural disasters, contrasting it with Trump's historical stance on environmental issues. The panel stressed the urgent need for effective disaster management and questioned the preparedness and resilience of affected communities.

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3. Meta’s Overhaul of Fact-Checking and Content Moderation

A significant portion of the conversation revolved around Meta's (formerly Facebook) recent decision to overhaul its fact-checking and content moderation practices, shifting towards user-generated content similar to Elon Musk’s X platform.

• Claudia Ashray reported on the changes:

  "Meta will now rely on community notes, in other words, user input similar to what Elon Musk's X platform does." [27:14]

• Scott Galloway critiqued the move:

  "This is a political decision... Mark Zuckerberg gets to placate, at least temporarily, the president who threatened to put him in jail." [29:46]

• Mika Brzezinski emphasized the broader societal impact:

  "We've all been shoved into these algorithmically driven rage balls, bubbles... we no longer have a shared truth." [42:50]

Notable Quotes:

• Claudia Ashray:

  "Meta has pushed into the world of artificial intelligence... including chatbots that violated Meta's policies against creating characters based on religious or real-life figures." [28:38]

• Scott Galloway:

  "We are effectively in a kleptocracy... weaponizing governments." [31:47]

Insights & Implications: The hosts delved into the ramifications for political discourse and societal polarization due to Meta's shift away from traditional fact-checking. Scott Galloway expressed concerns about the potential for increased misinformation and the erosion of public trust in media institutions.

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4. Economic Analysis: Debunking Trump’s Claim of a Bad Inherited Economy

A critical segment featured economic analyst Steve Ratner, who countered President Elect Trump's assertion that he would inherit a struggling economy.

• Steve Ratner presented data highlighting job growth under both the Biden and Trump administrations:

  "Under Biden, we've been creating jobs at a rate of about 241,000 per month... under Trump, it was 180,000." [49:04]

• He addressed inflation concerns:

  "Inflation has come down to between 2.5% and 3%, just above the Federal Reserve's target... food prices are now running at about 1.6% to 1.7%." [50:16]

• On border security, Ratner clarified improvements:

  "The border is quite secure at the moment... crossings have dropped from 70,000 per month under Trump to about 47,000 now." [52:09]

Notable Quotes:

• Joe Scarborough:

  "So inflation is not raging... real wages have been growing 1.5% a year." [51:52]

Insights & Implications: The analysis provided a comprehensive view of the current economic landscape, demonstrating strengths such as robust job creation and controlled inflation, contradicting Trump's narrative. This segment underscored the importance of fact-based economic reporting in shaping public perception.

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5. Income Inequality and Tech Monopolies: The Rise of the Oligarchy

The discussion expanded into the pervasive issue of income inequality and the dominance of tech monopolies, with insights from Scott Galloway.

• Scott Galloway criticized the concentration of wealth and power:

  "We're moving towards an oligarchy with all of these monopolies... Meta, Google, Amazon... control vast portions of their respective markets." [33:35]

• He highlighted the tax system's failure to address inequality:

  "The tax code, which has gone from 400 pages to 4,000, is there to screw the middle class and continue to transfer more money to the super wealthy." [37:01]

• Claudia Ashray echoed concerns about the political implications:

  "From a diplomatic perspective, it's also the same... the central thesis of the second Trump administration." [21:15]

Notable Quotes:

• Scott Galloway:

  "When a small number of individuals and companies can be worth more than nation-states, income inequality is out of control." [34:56]

Insights & Implications: The panelists examined the structural factors facilitating income disparity, particularly the unchecked growth of tech giants. They debated the long-term consequences for American society, including political instability and the erosion of the middle class, advocating for policy reforms to mitigate these trends.

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6. The Impact of Social Media Algorithms on Political Discourse

A critical examination of how social media algorithms contribute to political polarization and misinformation featured prominently in the dialogue.

• Mika Brzezinski discussed the fractured nature of political discourse:

  "We have these hermetically sealed bubbles that separate us... we no longer have a shared truth." [42:50]

• Claudia Ashray linked social media changes to broader societal issues:

  "It's not accidental that it's happening... 40% more of Americans aren't speaking to their neighbors." [42:50]

• Scott Galloway connected these phenomena to geopolitical strategies:

  "If I controlled the largest media platform in history... why wouldn't I put my thumb on the scale of content that makes them hate each other?" [44:00]

Notable Quotes:

• Mika Brzezinski:

  "Two-thirds of Americans now get their news from social media. The few media institutions that had fidelity to the truth are just becoming shadows of themselves." [42:50]

• Scott Galloway:

  "We can beat anyone globally, but we don't like each other because of these algorithmically driven rage balls." [45:43]

Insights & Implications: The hosts highlighted the destructive role of social media algorithms in fostering echo chambers and eroding trust in shared narratives. They emphasized the urgent need for regulation and media literacy to combat the deepening political divides and restore constructive discourse.

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7. Closing Economic Overview by Steve Ratner

In the concluding segments, Steve Ratner provided a pertinent economic outlook, reinforcing the strength of the current economy against Trump's narrative.

• Job Growth:

  "Under Biden, we've been creating jobs at a rate of about 241,000 per month... under Trump, it was 180,000." [49:04]

• Inflation and Wages:

  "Inflation has come down to between 2.5% and 3%, just above the Federal Reserve's target... real wages have been growing 1.5% a year." [51:52]

• Border Security:

  "Crossings have dropped from 70,000 per month under Trump to about 47,000 now." [52:09]

• Energy Production:

  "We have become a net energy exporter... energy production has been hitting records." [52:35]

Notable Quotes:

• Steve Ratner:

  "The border is actually quite secure at the moment. Energy is also simply a fiction." [52:09]

Insights & Implications: Ratner's analysis provided a data-driven rebuttal to Trump's claims, emphasizing economic resiliency and policy successes under the current administration. This segment reinforced the importance of evidence-based discourse in political debates.

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Conclusion

The January 8, 2025 episode of "Morning Joe" offered a comprehensive analysis of current political tensions, environmental crises, tech industry shifts, and economic health. The hosts and their guests navigated through complex issues, providing listeners with insightful perspectives and critical evaluations of prevailing narratives. By dissecting Trump's rhetoric, Meta's policy changes, and the state of the American economy, "Morning Joe" delivered a robust and engaging summary of the day's most significant stories, ensuring that listeners are well-informed and equipped to understand the multifaceted landscape of contemporary American politics and society.

Selected Notable Quotes:

• Scott Galloway:

  "We are effectively in a kleptocracy... we are becoming more like Russia every day." [31:47]

• Mika Brzezinski:

  "We've all been shoved into these algorithmically driven rage balls, bubbles... we no longer have a shared truth." [42:50]

• Sam Stein:

  "It doesn't mean I'm wrong. But if you live in New Jersey or New York, you're probably paying 48 to 52% tax rates." [37:01]

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For a comprehensive understanding of these discussions, tuning into the full episode of "Morning Joe" is recommended.

Transcript

[Advertiser]

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[Tanks]

What's up, podcast listeners? It's Tanks, host of the It's Me Tanks podcast.

[Claudia Ashray]

Join me weekly on It's Me Tanks.

[Tanks]

As I dive into topics like relationships.

[Claudia Ashray]

Why it's okay to feel lonely, fighting.

[Tanks]

Summer comparison, and pop culture's hottest takes.

[Claudia Ashray]

I don't shy away from getting candid about my personal experiences and I want to share all the advice I have learned with you.

[Tanks]

I'm even joined by some of my friends like Claudia Ashre, Connor Wood and Amanda Hirsch each Friday for our new Office Hours episodes.

[Claudia Ashray]

You can listen to It's Me Tanks every Monday, Wednesday and Friday, wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Tanks]

And don't forget to follow the show so you don't miss an episode.

[Joe]

We're going to be changing the name of the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America.

[Claudia Ashray]

Yeah, let's do that. Why the hell not? I guess Gulf of America does have a ring to it. As in there was another horrific oil in the Gulf of America.

[Advertiser]

So now, if I understand this correctly, the Gulf of Mexico will become the Gulf of America, New Mexico will be dry America and Cinco de Mayo will be the 5th of Mayo.

[Mika]

Stayed up almost all night drinking Diet Cokes to come up with the Gulf of America.

[Advertiser]

And from now on, tortillas will be.

[Sam Stein]

Known as little round blankets.

[Tanks]

All right. The late night shows reacting to Donald Trump's news suggested using military force to take control of both the Panama Canal and Greenland. We're going to play for you his comments on that and we will have a fact check on his claims that he is inheriting a bad economy. I think perhaps that might not be true. We'll check into it. Also ahead, we'll go through the major change coming to Facebook and Instagram when it comes to fact checking, as Mark Zuckerberg says, it will be now up to users to combat misinformation on both platforms. Joe, this is, I think, one of the big stories of the day that we're going to be getting to.

[Advertiser]

Yeah, it really is. It is. And a Lot going on in Washington. Obviously, Jimmy Carter, the former president, is going to be celebrated and remembered all this week. Lyon State, the United States Capitol Rotunda. Bipartisanship, I'm sure everybody around the table will tell you, is certainly broken out when you hear leaders of both parties talking about President Carter, his character, the man he was, and the life he lived. Also, Gene Robinson proving once again that the debate between whether Washington is a northern city or a southern city evaporates the second there's an inch of snow in Washington. Exactly. That adage has proven true.

[Mika]

Yeah, it has proven true. It's a mess out there still. It hasn't been snowing for a couple of days, actually.

[Joe]

By the way, the fact that I.

[Sam Stein]

Haven'T plowed a single street.

[Mika]

Well, the lack of plowing really sends me a message. I mean, yesterday was just ridiculous. It stopped snowing and it was basically impossible to get from my house to here. Now, I came in and I was.

[Claudia Ashray]

You came in really for me. And I appreciate that in early.

[Mika]

But it was touch and go because the entire downtown Washington was unplowed and blocked off.

[Advertiser]

Here is the attitude and Mark Levovich. It goes to one of the greats in Washington history, Mayor Marion Barry, on a vacation in Jamaica in the early 90s when there was a massive snowstorm. And his quote, which I believe is etched above the rotunda, when asked what he was going to do about snow removal, he said, God brung it. God can take it away.

[Mika]

Can't argue with that. That might be his most. His second most famous.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah, I was gonna say.

[Mika]

You know, here's an opposing view.

[Advertiser]

I live here, too.

[Mika]

I don't think it's been that bad snow removal wise. I, you know.

[Claudia Ashray]

Have you been out?

[Mika]

I have been granted, you know, there's been. No, it hasn't. I mean, look, we got like a foot of snow or something. Hasn't been that. This is just in my experience, in my lived experience.

[Advertiser]

In my lived experience, this is a tree of.

[Mika]

I want my voice to be heard. He's always been a glass half full kind of guy.

[Advertiser]

And speaking of glasses half full. Willie Geist, New York. They're looking at Rex Ryan and they're thinking, this guy could make the difference.

[Mika]

Wow.

[Willie Geist]

Are they gonna do this again? Are they gonna do this again? This is.

[Advertiser]

Wait a second, by the way. And Ford bringing back the Edsel. It's gonna work this time.

[Willie Geist]

Jon has the. There's the post Rex appeal. Daily News going with bringing Rexy back. Rex Ryan, the former New York jets coach, has been openly Campaigning for the job he wants back in perhaps to pair up with Aaron Rodgers if he returns. We've seen this movie before in New York and now it looks like the Jets, John, are actually entertaining the idea of making Rex Ryan their coach again.

[Sam Stein]

You used the right word, entertain. Because that would be what Rex Ryan would provide to the New York. I feel like the nation needs this right now. The return of Rex Ryan. Let's remember he was. He had a couple years of success with the Jets. He did. And then flamed out spectacularly over several years. And he has been sitting in the media ever since and has been remarkably openly lobbying for this job, like each and every day saying, I'm the guy for it. I'm the guy for it. I'm not sure jets fans would agree necessarily, but they have a lot of decisions to make. And look, clearly Rex Ryan the one to make them.

[Advertiser]

Well, but really, the sports world and Mark Lebovich and Jonathan Lemire will tell you the sports world has stopped with the news that Bobby Dahlbach is now going to be a Chicago White Sox. Right. We are all White Sox fans, I think. Yeah, I would say as go Bobby.

[Sam Stein]

Watch him hit like 40 bombs for the White Sox.

[Advertiser]

This is the only reason you wanted.

[Willie Geist]

Me and Jonathan to be on the first hour.

[Mika]

This is when you sort of get.

[Advertiser]

Rid of all the funny little inside jokes, you know.

[Mika]

What, more important than us being amused?

[Advertiser]

Yeah, well, exactly. No, actually, we kept going yesterday, Mika, all the way to the fourth hour with poor Andrew Ross Sorkin with his fake phony Churchill quotes.

[Tanks]

Yeah, I'm going to put an end to that right now because we've got a lot to get to. You see who is in Washington along with Joe, Willie, Jonathan and me. We've got a full table there and a lot to get to this morning, including a state of emergency in Southern California this morning as high winds around Los Angeles fuel a rapidly spread spreading a wildfire that is destroying homes and forcing mass evacuations right now. NBC News correspondent Liz Kreutz reports.

[Claudia Ashray]

Panic in the Pacific Palisades as a wind driven wildfire blazes through one of Southern California's most iconic neighborhoods.

[Mika]

People are panicking and it's a parking lot.

[Joe]

So there's about an hour wait at.

[Advertiser]

The bottom of Palisades Drive.

[Mika]

I rushed over here to pack my belongings and I got the evacuation orders.

[Claudia Ashray]

Multiple homes burning with residents told to get out. Some people getting trapped. There's fire on both sides of the road. Many abandoning their cars in the gridlock traffic. Fire crews using a Bulldozer to push cars out of the way to clear a path. We are in bumper to bumper traffic right now as hundreds of people try to get out. You can see flames here on both sides of the road with very little visibility.

[Tanks]

Evacuation orders are in place for approximately 30,000 residents. Households threatened is approximately 10,367.

[Claudia Ashray]

RNBC Los Angeles station inside this hard hit neighborhood. This is a large clock here, a large, what looks like an antique, very beautiful family clock here on the ground. There are also photo albums that the firefighters pulled from the home just minutes before the flames overtook it because they said that they felt like they at least wanted to save something. Smoke from the growing fire seen for miles around LA where another brush fire ignited in West Hollywood. This is something you hardly ever see. We are in the heart of LA on Sunset Boulevard where there was a brush fire that shut down the road here. All these firefighters trying to get ahead of the wind putting out the flames that were up in these hills. Firefighters using air drops to put out the flames. 19 million people under red flag warnings with wind gusts throughout the state expected to reach 100 miles per hour in some areas sending trees onto cars and power lines.

[Joe]

The only thing I heard above that.

[Willie Geist]

Wind was the power lines popping.

[Claudia Ashray]

The intense smoke creating dangerous air quality across Southern California with the firefight continuing where high winds are expected to only further fan the flames.

[Willie Geist]

Just incredible pictures there. NBC's Liz Kreutz reporting. Let's go over to meteorologist Angie Lastman for more on how winds are impacting these fires. Angie, what are you looking at?

[Claudia Ashray]

Unfortunately, Willie, those winds are going to worsen here as the rest of the morning goes on and as the day goes on for folks in Southern Southern California. No surprise we still have those 19 million people under these red flag warnings. This is going to be a particularly dangerous situation when we look at the three main fires that we're watching. The Hearst Fire, Palisades fire and Eaton fire. There's so much smoke in this area, so many particulates in the, in the atmosphere that it's picking up on radar. So that just shows you how massive these are. And on top of that, the way that they're going to spread today is going to be immense. We've got 45 to 95 mile per hour winds already happening this morning in the area of Palisades. Those have been recorded and we're likely going to see those destructive wind gusts up to 100 miles per hour through the day across much of this region. Another note, relative humidity values dropping to single digits. So basically all of that just means explosive fire growth across this region. We've got of course the extreme fire risk stretching from Glendale to Santa Clarita out to Oxnard and towards the coast of course, including Malibu. But notice that critical risk extends all the way down to basically the border. That extreme fire behavior is going to be likely through the day today. And the wind alerts are up for the Southwest. We've got a high pressure and a low pressure that this area is kind of sandwiched between. That means that again the winds are going to stay destructive through at least the next couple of days. Willie will see likely some weakening of those by the time we get to the end of the week and potentially into the weekend. But for now we'll continue to see that really those dangerous conditions lasting for folks in that region.

[Willie Geist]

Officials, they're describing some of the winds as tornado like whipping through and carrying these flames, jumping highways, some people sheltering on the beach we're hearing this morning. Angie Lassman will stay on the story with you. Thanks so much. We should point out John too, President Biden is out there in Southern California. What does his schedule look like?

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, he's had some unrelated events in California the last couple of days. He was had to cancel one yesterday. He's going to dedicate a new national park. They couldn't make that trip because of the dangerous winds and and fire. He is still in L. A. He's slated to return to Washington later today. He has put out a statement. Of course federal government is is monitoring this, offering assistance as they can. Vice President Harris, a similar statement. Let's remember she and the second gentleman live in Los Angeles. They have a home not far from where these fires are raging. And some of the footage that we saw seeing here saw on social media, truly, truly terrible and already real concerns. Let's remember in just two weeks time it'll be Donald Trump as president of the United States. He in the past has threatened to withhold federal assistance for wildfire recovery because of the feud he's had there with Governor California Governor Gavin Newsom. But that is something for down the road right now. Just of course prayers for those there including these first responders. The county of Los Angeles had to have in all hands all members of the fire department on or off duty calling them back to work.

[Tanks]

Rare and dramatic, still very much developing especially with those wind gusts. Who knows where this could go. So we'll stay on this throughout the show. Keep you updated. Also in an hour long news conference yesterday, President Elect Donald Trump suggested that he would consider military force to gain control of the Panama Canal and Greenland and economic force to acquire Canada. NBC News senior White House correspondent Gabe Gutierrez has more from yesterday's news conference.

[Advertiser]

In a marathon news conference at Mar.

[Mika]

A Lago, President Elect Trump not ruling out using economic or military coercion to retake the Panama Canal and acquire Greenland.

[Joe]

You're talking about Panama and Greenland? No, I can't assure you on either of those two, but I can say we need them for economic security. The Panama Canal was built for our military.

[Advertiser]

Trump saying the US Decision to return.

[Mika]

Control of the canal to Panama in the 90s gave too much influence to.

[Joe]

China has basically taken it over.

[Mika]

And arguing the US Needs Greenland for national security.

[Joe]

You have Russian ships all over the place. We're not letting that happen. The people are going to probably vote for independence or to come into the United States.

[Mika]

The provocative comments come as Donald Trump Jr. Visited Greenland and the Danish prime minister vowed that his country's territory is not for sale. Here is tourists seeing it looks like an incredible place.

[Advertiser]

But his father, laying out an aggressive.

[Mika]

Foreign policy, expanding US Influence, even wanting.

[Claudia Ashray]

To change, changed the name of the Gulf of Mexico.

[Joe]

The Gulf of America. What a beautiful name. And it's appropriate. It's appropriate. And Mexico has to stop allowing millions of people to pour into our country.

[Mika]

And after mocking Canada as the 51st.

[Advertiser]

State, Trump is floating the idea of.

[Mika]

Using economic non military force to annex.

[Joe]

The U.S. ally because Canada and the United States, that would really be something. You get rid of that artificially drawn line and you take a look at what that looks like. And it would also be much better for national security.

[Mika]

Outgoing Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau responding. There isn't a snowball's chance in hell.

[Advertiser]

That Canada would become part of the United States.

[Mika]

While overseas, Trump is again warning Hamas to release its hostages soon.

[Joe]

If they're not back by the time I get into office, all hell will break out in the Middle east and it will not be good for Hamas.

[Willie Geist]

Gabe Gutierrez reporting there. So Jonathan Lemire, as we watched this yesterday, it was a return to, oh yeah, this is what this is like. Donald Trump almost in rally mode, campaign rally, just listing off grievances and whining about all the injustices that he perceives against him. Even complaining about the election that he won, suggesting there was something amiss with the election, saying America, what a horrible place because we run our elections like this. Musing about the potential of Hezbollah having been there on January 6th. I guess the question for Viewers for the news media, for others is what do you do with this when most of it is trolling, most of it is not policy that he's actually going to pursue. But there it was for an hour again yesterday.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, a stream of consciousness, just rambling rant for an hour or so. Yes, indeed. A reminder of what it was like and a preview of likely what's to come. But I think there are a few things we should take away. And you're right, this is going to be the challenge of the next four years. Just try to parcel through what he says and how much of it to actually take seriously. But if we at face value, some of this stuff is very troubling and dangerous. You know, suggesting that he would use military force to reclaim the Panama Canal, which as we have been talking about for a week or more, President Carter signed a treaty to give back to Panama or Greenland. Meanwhile, Greenland, part of Denmark, a NATO ally. You know, that would be an extraordinary step were he to actually take any sort of moves there. We have seen with Canada. He says he won't be an invasion, but he wants an economic pressure to push Canada to become our 51st state. He also mused that Wayne Gretzky should follow Justin Trudeau as the new prime minister there. We should note the Great One has decided to take a pass on that. He's already put a statement saying he's not interested. But there were more things that I think we have to look at more seriously as well. This idea of he acknowledged that Facebook and Meta's fact checking changes. That's because the pressure he has put on them and sort of a signal to, I think a lot in the sort of social media and tech industry that you need to get on board or we will perhaps lean on you heavily. I mean, floated January six conspiracy theories, we can set those aside. But Mika, But Joe, this is something where Donald Trump is again reminding us and the world that this is going to be, there's not going to be consistency here. There's not going to be a reliable ally. And that is something. And we can sort of dismiss some of this as, oh, he's just talking or he's blustering. But you know, he is talking, talking about tariffs, he's talking about economic pressure, talk about withholding aid. And I think global capitals are also just like us in the media trying to sort out how to handle this. And some of them very clear, deeply alarmed.

[Advertiser]

Well, and there is also, there is blowback from that trolling, actually for Trump allies. You look at Canada, for instance, and talking about the 51st state or these other things, it certainly does not help the Conservatives in Canada right now who want to take control. The same thing's happening in Britain. Or Elon Musk continues to interfere in British politics. All that is doing is helping a severely weakened labor government by, again, so there's always blowback to this. And you know, Sam, so much of it is, if we are to judge over the last four years, signature trolling. And as David Sanger said when pressed on Greenland, when pressed on these other things, David Sanger with the New York Times wrote this morning that when asked those questions, he responded with, quote, signature vagueness.

[Sam Stein]

Right.

[Advertiser]

So guess what happens. We talk about it, everybody talks about it, everybody writes about it, everybody's asking is he or isn't he? And the signature vagueness is there, the trolling is there, and he's in the middle of the conversation.

[Sam Stein]

Exactly. And then it becomes incumbent to separate the signal from the noise. Right. What actually matters here? Does renaming the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America, is that going to happen? No. I mean, imagine all the maps we'd have to rewrite. Impossible. So we could put that aside. But there are some things that I think materially do matter. Threatening or at least not ruling out military force to acquire the Panama Canal or Greenland. I think materially matters, if only because it sends a signal to Russia, hey, go ahead, we do territorial sovereignty. It doesn't really matter. You can do what you want in Ukraine. It sends a signal to China, Taiwan.

[Tanks]

Right.

[Sam Stein]

And so that's the signal, that's the noise in terms of the vagueness. And we've done this for, God, eight years now. Geez. Figuring out if this is just him kind of riffing or if this is some sort of negotiating play. And in some cases, you can see the case where he's trying to, for instance, try to extract more concessions from Canada when it comes to trade, or from Denmark and Greenland or from Panama. Right. But ultimately there is a cost to this, which is it's chaos. It deteriorates and hurts our allies, and it invites other foreign countries, world powers, to basically meddle in other sovereign nations the way that we are meddling in.

[Advertiser]

Panama, Greenland, Canada, I had somebody in talking about it was very close to Donald Trump talking about, when you listen to him, always understand if he talks about deporting 13 million illegal immigrants, always understand that's the opening hand. That's the, that's the start of the negotiations. Everything. If he's talking about the Panama Canal and where you might Take it over by force, they say. I'm not, I'm not saying this. Oh, I bet they say that's the opening hand. He doesn't like the fees or he doesn't like how it's being handled. He, maybe he wants China's shipping to be, you know, have, have a higher surcharge on it. Always look at these things as the opening volley in negotiations.

[Claudia Ashray]

But that's always been what Trump has done.

[Advertiser]

Right.

[Claudia Ashray]

It's just different when you're President of the United States versus the head of a company. I mean, you can talk about acquiring Canada if you're not a head of state. I mean, an acquisition and a merger doesn't work like that as a country. But I do think this is once again the place that we are in with the literal of Trump and the negotiating of Trump. And we talked about this this morning on way too early. From a diplomatic perspective, I think Sam makes an excellent point. From policy negotiating perspective, it's also the same. There are people on Capitol Hill that I've spoken to recently who say, all right, what happens if we all agree on something and then someone whispers something new to Trump and we all have to go back on what we've already moved down the policy and legislative line. It's not a way for success legislatively or policy wise, but this is gonna be the central thesis of the second Trump administration. I do think the best advice, and I never find political books to be instructive when they're written by the candidates, but the best advice I got back in 2015 was read the Art of the Deal and you'll understand the way that Trump functions. And again, I think we all got to go back and reread, cuz that's where we're at again.

[Advertiser]

And let's be, I mean, really clear there. That's great advice, actually. Read the first three pages.

[Claudia Ashray]

Yep.

[Advertiser]

And he explains. He goes to the office, picks up the phone, he starts talking. He has no plans. He sees what happens.

[Mika]

Yeah, that's.

[Advertiser]

And that's where. That's where we are, you know, Told you.

[Mika]

I mean, I told you this was happening. Everybody, this is what we. This is who he is. This is what were in store for America.

[Advertiser]

You wanted this, Sammy told you, you got it. You were saying that this was going to be easy.

[Sam Stein]

Never, never not listen to Eugene, you.

[Mika]

Know, the Gulf of Mexico, by the way, was the Gulf of Mexico before there was a United States of America.

[Sam Stein]

It doesn't matter.

[Advertiser]

Rename it Details.

[Mika]

Just like we renamed Freedom From.

[Advertiser]

Yeah, exactly. So it is still freedom. Freedom fries, right?

[Mika]

Absolutely.

[Advertiser]

So, Mika, you know, this is one of those moments where there's, you know, you've always got to separate the signal from the ground noises, as a great admiral once told me. But this is one of those moments where we may look back and actually, you know, see Gulf of America, Greenland, all this other stuff, and we may realize that actually the most important part of yesterday's press conference that may have the biggest impact on American politics may be what he said about Meta.

[Mika]

Right.

[Advertiser]

And Mark Zuckerberg's total and absolute collapse on all fronts in that horrific video that he put out yesterday. That actually is something that may more dramatically change the landscape of American politics, at least over the next two to four years until somebody else gets in control and Mark Zuckerberg decides, yes, yes, sir, overlord, I will now do what you want me to do than anything else. This, this is going to have sweeping impact.

[Tanks]

Absolutely. That's the story of the day amidst all the noise. And we're going to talk more about this topic in our 7 o'clock hour. But we're going to get to Meta next. Still ahead on Morning Joe, we'll get to the fallout from Metta CEO Mark Zuckerberg's decision to end and fact checking on Facebook and Instagram ahead of Donald Trump's return to the Oval Office. Plus, New York City Mayor Eric Adams could face more criminal charges ahead of his upcoming trial. What prosecutors are saying about that. Also ahead, billionaire Elon Musk's war on America's allies. Ed Loose joins us with his latest piece for the Financial Times. Morning Joe is back in 90 seconds.

[Advertiser]

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[Tanks]

What's up, podcast listeners? It's Tanks, host of the It's Me Tanks podcast. Join me weekly on It's Me Tanks as I dive into topics like relationships.

[Claudia Ashray]

Why it's okay to feel lonely, fighting.

[Tanks]

Summer comparison, and pop culture's hottest takes.

[Claudia Ashray]

I don't shy away from getting candid about my personal experiences, and I want to share all the advice I have learned with you.

[Tanks]

I'm even joined by some of my friends like Claudia Ashray, Connor Wood and Amanda Hirsch each Friday for our new Office Hours episodes.

[Claudia Ashray]

You can listen to It's Me Tanks every Monday, Wednesday and Friday, wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Tanks]

And don't forget to follow the show so you don't miss an episode.

[Advertiser]

The last thing you want to hear.

[Sam Stein]

When you need your auto insurance most.

[Advertiser]

Is a robot with countless irrelevant menu options. Which is why with USAA Auto Insurance, you'll get great service that is easy and reliable, all at the touch of a button.

[Sam Stein]

Get a quote Today restrictions apply.

[Mika]

USA hey.

[Willie Geist]

Live Picture Reagan National 6:25 in the morning as we just mentioned, Metta CEO Mark Zuckerberg has announced major changes to the fact checking and content moderation practices for the company's social media platforms. NBC News senior Washington correspondent Hallie Jackson has details.

[Claudia Ashray]

New fallout after Meta's mega move to eliminate traditional fact checking on the world's biggest social media platform We've reached a.

[Sam Stein]

Point where it's just too many mistakes and too much censorship. The fact checkers have just been too.

[Mika]

Politically biased and have destroyed more trust.

[Sam Stein]

Than they've created, especially in the US.

[Claudia Ashray]

It's a significant shift from the fact checking put in place after Donald Trump's first win. Instead, Meta will now rely on community notes, in other words, user input similar to what Elon Musk's X platform does. As part of a broader move to loosen up how Meta moderates content content. The company will also lift restrictions on hot button topics like gender identity and immigration, allow more politics into people's feeds, and move its trust and safety team from liberal California to Ruby Red, Texas, all just days before President Elect Trump retakes the White House.

[Mika]

The recent elections also feel like a.

[Sam Stein]

Cultural tipping point towards once again prioritizing speech.

[Claudia Ashray]

It's a political evolution for Meta. Four years after Facebook suspended Mr. Trump's account in the wake of January 20th, 6th and just months after the president elect accused Zuckerberg of plotting against him in 2020, calling for life in prison if Zuckerberg did it again. But after Mr. Trump's win, Zuckerberg traveled to Mar a Lago. His company donated a million dollars to the Trump Inaugural Fund and now close Trump ally and UFC head Dana White is joining Meta's board.

[Joe]

Meta, Facebook, I think they've come a long way.

[Sam Stein]

He's directly responding to the threats that.

[Tanks]

You have made to him in the past.

[Mika]

Some critics concerned fact checking is not censorship.

[Claudia Ashray]

What do you see as the Trump factor, if you will?

[Mika]

Here this is very obviously a political decision.

[Claudia Ashray]

Over the next four years, the Trump administration will set key policy on critical tech topics like antitrust and AI. And as Metta has pushed into the world of artificial intelligence, NBC News has found user generated AI chatbots that seemingly violated Meta's policies against creating characters based on religious or real life figures. An NBC News review found some two dozen chatbots ranging from Hitler and Jesus Christ to Taylor Swift and Captain Jack Sparrow.

[Willie Geist]

NBC's Hallie Jackson reporting there. Joining us now, professor of marketing at the NYU Stern School of Business, our friend Scott Galloway. He also is co host of the Raging Moderates podcast. Scott, so glad you're here to walk us through this this morning. Remember, it was just four years ago about right now that Mark Zuckerberg and Facebook met up. Russia pulled Donald Trump's accounts down after the attack on the Capitol on January six. Now you fast forward four years, Donald Trump threatening Mark Zuckerberg during the campaign. And it does look just the last few days, last couple of weeks, like full capitulation, giving Donald Trump exactly what he wants. What do you see in this move?

[Mika]

First up, good to be with you, Ellie. I see that all CEOs in tech should stop using the term stakeholders and just go back to, to really the truth here and talk about shareholders. Four years ago the term was called moderation. Now it's being called censorship. And with this decision, the CEO of Matt, Mark Zuckerberg gets kind of a twofer. He gets to placate, at least temporarily, the president who threatened to put him in jail for the rest of his life. And he gets to save maybe upwards of $5 billion, which is how much they spend on their safety and security department. And at a price earnings ratio of 30, that's potentially $150 billion increase in market capitalization. Mark Zuckerberg owns 15% of the company. So you have what is effectively a get out of jail card, potentially from someone who appears to be an oligarch threatening to put people in jail and add 15 to 20 billion dollars to his net worth. The greatest trade of 2024, it wasn't Bitcoin, it wasn't Nvidia. It was Elon Musk investing a quarter of a billion dollars directly in the Trump campaign. And then when Trump won, since the election, Elon Musk's worth has gone up $140 billion. So that's effectively, I believe, about a 56,000% return on investment. So we've gone full kleptocracy. We can never, in my opinion, wave our finger at Russia again. When the president, the elected president, is taking public trust and public authority and weaponizing governments and doling out capital and market share and contracts and threatening to use regulatory action against the competitors who don't give money to his inaugural committee or don't kind of bend the knee, we are effectively in a, in a kleptocracy. I just, you know, this is Russia is the role model. We are becoming more like Russia every day. That's where.

[Sam Stein]

Hey Scott, it's Sam Stein here. I looked at all these adjustments that Zuckerberg was announcing. Some of them I think were significant, some I think were a bit overblown. For instance, they already have offices in Texas. But he made a big stink about moving the content moderation office to Texas. And then I saw Lina Khan on CNBC who suggested that there is an FTC suit that is going to be considered in the next couple months that looks at whether face Facebook, sorry, Meta is a monopoly on the social media network. And she said this is plainly Mark Zuckerberg trying to get a sweetheart deal from the ftc. Do you see it that way?

[Mika]

I think that's part of it. Also. The move to Texas not only pleases the conservative side of the aisle, which he's trying to do, and has made several actions to try and come across as more conservative. It's the ultimate quiet firing because if you tell, rather than a series of bad press releases or uncomfortable all hands meetings, if you just decide you're moving your safety and security team from California to Texas, you're naturally going to lose probably 30 to 50% of the employees. So, you know, this is, this is again, nothing about placating the Republican Party and, and saving money and adding shareholder value. And what is so shocking? I mean, just from a personal standpoint, what's the point of having all this money money if you aren't at some point going to show some fidelity as a 40 or a 50 something year old man that has the wealth of the GDP of a Latin American nation to actually standing up and showing some fidelity to American values? Bezos has got the yacht. Tim Cook, Jensen Huang at Nvidia is worth more than intel or Boeing. At what point? When do the men show up here?

[Sam Stein]

Here?

[Mika]

When do the Americans show up here? So this is not only incredibly shocking, but not disappointing from Trump, but where's the leadership? Where are the men that have such blessings and such prosperity from the rule of law and capitalism and competition? And we don't need more mergers and acquisitions. We need more breakups One company owns two thirds of all social media Global globally. Meta One company has 93% of all share of all search Google. And if you don't think every day we don't pay higher prices, one company has 50% of all E commerce Amazon. The percentage of revenues that have gone to Amazon from third party retailers has gone up from 24 to 50%. Look at the rents that parents are paying on Facebook when 24% of teen girls are now addicted addicted to Facebook. 6% of our teenagers are clinically addicted to drugs and alcohol. 24% are addicted to Instagram. And the number of teen girls self harming has doubled. So if you want higher rents as a consumer, as a retailer and as a parent, that's where we're headed.

[Advertiser]

You know Scott, there's so much, so much to discuss here. And you, you've talked though for some time about how this entire system is rigged and it is rigged against working Americans and rigged for billionaires. And you've said also people like yourself who made a lot of money in the markets, been very successful, but the tax system is. And again this was, you know, you've been saying this for years now. Talk about how this is accelerating. You talked about the Elon Musk example, talk about how this is accelerating and how this, and I say this as a small government conservative, this is a threat to American capitalism. You know, we can look at a lot of different threats facing this country country but, but moving towards this sort of oligarchy with all of these monopolies. And I've always told the story, you know, during COVID somebody called me up and said, hey, you need to invest in the stock market. I don't really do that. I don't, I don't trust the stock market. I don't want. He goes, just invest in the monopolies. I go, the monopolies. He goes, yeah, Meta, you know, invest in Meta and Amazon and Microsoft. And he named five or six and they are like you just said, they're monopolies. Lina Khan tried to break it up and you seriously would have thought that Karl Marx was marching down Wall Street. And you combine that combination that you're talking about with the fact that billionaires are getting richer and richer by the second while screaming socialist.

[Mika]

And.

[Advertiser]

What does that say about where American capitalism is going over the next five, 10 years?

[Mika]

I think it comes down to a basic question, what is America? And I would, my kind of economic role model is Peter Drucker. I think an economy in America exists to create a robust Middle class. The most ascending countries over the last 20 years have been China and India. And it's one basic litmus test. How many people are you bringing into the middle class? The greatest innovation in history. History. It's not the iPhone or the semiconductor. It's the American middle class that beat back fascism in the middle of World War II, has financed and built the greatest innovations, whether it's radar, whether it's the Internet, whether it's vaccines. The middle class in America is the greatest innovation in history. And people like to fall back into this right wing notion that it's naturally self healing. It's not. It's an accident in history. Typically throughout history, you have a small number of people who weaponize government. They're very talented, they aggregate power, they weaponize government, and they aggregate more and more spoils. And then the good news is it's self correcting. This level of income inequality is usually self correcting. The bad news is the means of self correction are typically war, famine or revolution. And if you want to talk about tax policy, the myth in tax policy is that the rich don't pay their taxes. That's just not true. The fulcrum is the following. There's super earners and super owners. The folks around your table are probably considered super earners. You make exceptional livings, but it's all current income income reported on a W2. And if you live in New Jersey or New York, you're probably paying 48 to 52% tax rates. Right? But if you're a super owner. I make my living starting and selling businesses. My last business, which was sold for $160 million. I'm very transparent about money. This, this gestalt or zeitgeist that people should not talk about money is nothing but an attempt to keep poor people down. Because rich people talk about money all the time. It's important to be financially literate. The first $10 million for my $160 million sale was tax free. My effective tax rate over the last 10 years has been 17%. The average tax rate on the wealthiest 25Americans is 6%. Corporate tax rates are at their lowest point since 1939. At the same time, taxes have gone up for the super owners. Now, the bottom 50% don't pay much federal income tax, but they pay a lot in usage and consumption taxes. But this misdirect talking about tax rates misses the point. It's the tax code, which has gone from 400 pages to 4,000. And that 3,600 pages, quite frankly, is there to screw the middle class and continue to transfer more money to the super wealthy. The fastest growing demographic group in America is not seniors, it's not Latins, it's billionaires. We have 500 billionaires 10 years ago, we now have 2,500. So if you want to cram more and more wealth into a smaller group of people, people, we're on our way. And the weird thing about America is that we support it because our superpower is our optimism. The Achilles heel is that 99%, the bottom 99% who are getting screwed don't mind these policies because they believe at some point they're going to be in that 1%. But where are we? We're in a country that's had unprecedented prosperity. But similar to the way William Gibson described the future, it has not been evenly distributed. When 40% of US households are struggling with some sort of medical or dental debt, when a quarter or 20% of households with kids are food insecure. And yet we have one man, Jensen Huang. And I like Jensen, who is now worth more than Boeing. I mean, something is wrong here. And just let me go to the psychology of happiness. I think a lot about happiness because I struggle with it. Joe, you effectively, once you get above a certain level of wealth, you get no incremental happiness. So why on earth would you not go back to a tax policy of the 60s, 70s and 80s where say above, pick a big number, 10 million. You actually pay more than 10%, maybe more than 20%, maybe more than 50%. Because the difference between 30,000 a year for a household and 50,000 is enormous to the well being of that household. Low income kids in low income households have higher resting blood pressure. But the difference between making 10 million a year and 15 million a year offers you no happiness. But these individuals have weaponized government and we risk revolution. Whether it's CEOs being murdered in the street, whether it's a MeToo movement that had righteous components of it, or Black Lives Matter. What are these movements? They are targeting the wealthy. We are in the midst of a series of small revolutions to correct income inequality. And the reason we put an insurrectionist and a rapist in office is because for the first time time in our Nation's history, a 30 year old man or woman isn't doing as well as his or her parents were at 30. Why? Because the majority of households are having the oxygen sucked out of the room such that a small number of individuals and a small number of companies can be worth more than nation states. Income inequality is out of control. Our tax policy has gone full oligarchy.

[Claudia Ashray]

Scott, it's Ali Vitale. As you're thinking a lot about happiness, I often think about the forums in which Americans are having conversations about society and the political discourse. One of the first things that I thought about was the ways that Twitter used to be a place for that to have a kind of healthier discussion about politics. It's, of course, become a silo now with the changes that Musk has made. But the same, I think, will also be true with Meta, to the extent that it's not already. So what's the impact that this has on the political discourse writ large and the way that people from different sides of the aisle engage with each other? It's not just a physical divide in Washington. It's now online. You only see what you want to see. And how do these changes reinforce that?

[Mika]

My colleague at nyu, Jonathan Haidt, says to have a strong, thriving democracy, you need three things. You need trust an institution. You need shared stories that we buy into, that we were the good guys in World War II, that Americans are a generous, righteous people, and that you have small social networks that develop social capital. Because we trust each other at our church, we trust our neighbors, and effectively, we've now gone into these hermetically sealed bubbles where I mean, I affectionately refer to Twitter now as a Nazi porn bubble. Do you know anybody that in our circle that trusts anything they read on Facebook? And 2/3 of Americans now, or somewhere between half and 2/3 depending on the age, now get their news from social media. And unfortunately, the organizations that actually do the hard and expensive work of fact checking, if I do an article and it's published on your website or on the CNN side or the Wall Street Journal, people call me and ask me for references such that people have some trust in what they learn. But we are all entering into these hermetically sealed BO bubbles that separate us, that polarize us from one another, and that not only has impact on our political discourse, it has impacts on things like household formation and mating. Young people are no longer dating because they don't like each other's political views. Do any of you remember the political views of the people you dated in your 20s? I don't. So you have these, these hermetically sealed bubbles and it's not accidental that it's happening. And I know this sounds paranoid, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong. But if I controlled the largest media platform in history for 18 to 25 year olds, that is TikTok. And I'm China and I have a vested interest in diminishing the global strategic power of the US And I can't beat them kinetically, I can't beat them militarily, I can't beat them economically. Why wouldn't I put my thumb on the scale of content that makes them hate each other? 40% more of Americans aren't speaking to their neighbors. A third of Americans think the election was stolen. Two thirds of Republicans, one in four Americans believe 911 was an inside job. We can beat anyone globally, anyone. Everyone would pray for our problems economically. We can add a quarter of a trillion dollars to the market cap of a company. 15 minutes, post an earnings call. But here's the thing. We don't like each other because we've all been shoved into these algorithmically driven rage balls, bubbles such that we've stopped getting along and we no longer have a shared truth. In sum, these algorithms that control our news that now no longer have the cost or the expense of fact control or means of production or studios are going to run away with it. And the few media institutions that actually had some fidelity to the truth and shared stories are, quite frankly, just becoming a shadow of themselves.

[Tanks]

Yeah, you know, I was reading former President Jimmy Carter's speeches last night, and there's one in particular that warns of a moment just like this. Professor of marketing at the NYU Stern School of Business, Scott Galloway, thank you very much. His latest book is entitled the Algebra of A Simple Formula for Financial Security. Great conversation. I want to make a comment, though, just about a word that was used in this interview. Donald Trump was tried civilly and was found liable of sexual abuse, not rape. But the judge in the case likened his actions to rape, but the liability was officially called sexual abuse. Coming up, Donald Trump says he will be inheriting a bad economy when he takes office later this month. Steve Rattner is standing by at the Southwest wall with his charge to debunk that claim. Morning Joe will be right back.

[Mika]

Foreign.

[Advertiser]

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[Tanks]

What's up, podcast listeners? It's Tanks, host of the It's Me Tanks podcast. Join me weekly on It's Me Tanks as I dive into topics like relationships.

[Claudia Ashray]

Why it's okay to feel lonely, fighting.

[Tanks]

Summer comparison, and pop culture's hottest takes.

[Claudia Ashray]

I don't shy away from getting candid about my personal experiences, and I want to share all the advice I have learned with you.

[Tanks]

I'm even joined by some of my friends like Claudia Ostre, Connor Wood, and Amanda Hirsch each Friday for our new Office Hours episodes.

[Claudia Ashray]

You can listen to It's Me Tanks every Monday, Wednesday and Friday wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Tanks]

And don't forget to follow the show so you don't miss an episode.

[Advertiser]

The last thing you want to hear.

[Sam Stein]

When you need your auto insurance most.

[Advertiser]

Is a robot with countless irrelevant menu options. Which is why with USAA Auto Insurance, you'll get great service that is easy and reliable, all at the touch of a button. Get a quote today.

[Sam Stein]

Restrictions apply.

[Joe]

We inheriting a difficult situation from the outgoing administration and they're trying everything they can to make it more difficult. Inflation is continuing to rage and interest rates are far too high. And I've been disappointed to see the Biden administration's attempt to block the reforms of the American people and that they.

[Tanks]

Voted for President Elect Donald Trump yesterday, continuing to suggest he's inheriting a poor economy when he takes office in two weeks. Steve Ratner has been looking into this. He says nothing could be further from the truth, and he joins us with charts. So Steve, let's break it down. We'll start with job growth. Growth. How is it?

[Joe]

Yeah, Mika, the economy is incredibly strong, as you guys talked about a little bit yesterday. And in fact, Trump is inheriting the opposite of what he says is. Inheriting jobs is a great place to start. You can see that we've been creating jobs consistently across both the prior Trump administration as well as Obama, of course, with the exception of COVID But if you exclude Covid from the calculations, under Biden, we've been creating jobs at a rate of about 241,000 jobs, perhaps per month. Under Trump, it was 180,000. So not only are we creating a lot of jobs, we're creating at a faster rate than Trump 1.0 did. Manufacturing we all know manufacturing has been a tough spot for the United States. We had been losing manufacturing jobs for many, many years. It was exacerbated by the financial crisis. But under Trump and but also under Biden, we have created a lot of manufacturing. Manufacturing jobs 693,000 under Biden 425,000 under Trump. And so manufacturing jobs are actually backed to the highest level they've been at since the financial crisis. It's a tough job, but he's. But Biden has gotten a lot done on the manufacturing side and left Trump with a pretty decent tailwind there.

[Willie Geist]

So, Steve, as we move to your second chart, we heard President Elect Trump mention inflation there. Goods are still too expensive, expensive for many Americans, for most Americans. But it is important to look at that number in relationship to how wages have risen as well lately. What does that look like?

[Joe]

Yeah, two points on that, Willie. First of all, he said inflation was raging. We have to recognize that inflation did rage. We had a really tough spot in inflation during COVID for a whole series of reasons. But what maybe Americans don't fully appreciate is how far down it's come. It's come all the way back down to between 2 and a half and 3%, depending upon what measure you use. Just above the Federal Reserve's target of 2%, not that far, actually, from where inflation was under Trump. And food prices, grocery prices, which are obviously one of the most important items to everyday Americans, which again did soar, in fairness, are now running at about a 1.6%, 1.7% inflation rate. So very, very low inflation in food. So inflation is not raging. So as inflation has come down, that's obviously been good for workers because their pay has been going up. But inflation had been taking a lot of that away from them. It's now the opposite, in fact. So real wages, wages adjusted for inflation since COVID ended under Biden, have been growing one and a half percent a year. That's again a pretty good tailwind. It's an even better tailwind than Trump created where he had 1.33% annual growth in wages. So right now, the American worker is seeing their after inflation paychecks going up by a reasonably significant number.

[Willie Geist]

So inflation may have been decisive in the election. Immigration also is very important. As we move to your third chart, Steve, what does the border look like today? Obviously, it was a problem. There was a crisis at the border during the Biden administration. But that has changed here in recent months.

[Joe]

Yeah, again, Trump talks about the border being out of control. And in fairness, again, like inflation, we had a tough run at the border. But again, what I think most Americans probably don't appreciate, and certainly Trump does not seem to appreciate, is how far down they've come. This blue area are people who cross between ports of entry, between recognized entry points. The films you see of people going across the Rio Grande river and things of that sort. The green are the people who present themselves at the ports of entry. And you can see again how far it's dropped. And in fact, the blue is all the way down here at about 47,000amonth. And that is a lower number of crossings than we had when Trump left office, when it was running at about 70,000 per month. So the border is actually quite secure at the moment. And contrary to what Trump says, it has come all the way. It has come all the way down. And then there's energy, another subject that he keeps saying, we've got to drill, baby, drill, and we've got to create more energy. I'm not sure he's aware that we're actually already doing this. And so you can see here, in fact, that our energy production has been hitting records. We brought down our use of coal, so that's a really good thing for the environment. We have at least temporarily replaced it with natural gas and crude oil, record levels of production and in our history. And then we have some nuclear and we have grown renewables. And what also is probably not appreciated, and it did start in 2019, but it's accelerated under Biden, is the fact that we have become a net energy exporter. We actually export more energy, mostly in the form of oil, than we import. And so the idea that we're not producing a massive amount of oil and gas and all kinds of energy, energy is also simply a fiction.

[Tanks]

There you go. Morning Joe economic analyst Steve Ratner, thank you very much for that clarity. We appreciate it.

[Advertiser]

Now is your time to get into a new Dr. Horton home by taking advantage of their national red tag sales event going on right now through January 19th. Stop by any of their participating communities and find select red tag homes at incredible pricing. So whether you're buying your first home or looking for an upgrade, you don't want to miss the red tag sales event going on right now. Now discover the Dr. Horton [e-mail] that's Dr. Horton.com Dr. Horton, America's builder and Equal Housing Opportunity Builder.