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- [00:01]
Chris Hayes
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- [00:30]
James Matthews
Donald Trump is heading back to the White House.
- [00:33]
Donald Trump
Together we can truly make America great again.
- [00:37]
James Matthews
We are in for an unpredictable but fascinating four years and we're going to be following every twist and turn for.
- [00:43]
Mika Brzezinski
The first 100 days.
- [00:45]
Chris Hayes
We'll be bringing you the latest updates.
- [00:47]
Ali Vitale
And analysis first thing every morning.
- [00:50]
James Matthews
So join me, James Matthews, me, Martha.
- [00:52]
Steve Ratner
Calnick and me, Mark Stone for Trump.
- [00:54]
Donald Trump
100 every weekday at 6:00am Trump, wherever.
- [00:58]
Mika Brzezinski
You get your podcast.
- [01:01]
James Matthews
President Trump said that he had a.
- [01:03]
Steve Ratner
Nice phone call with Vladimir Putin.
- [01:06]
Ali Vitale
Putin was like, I told you I.
- [01:07]
James Matthews
Wouldn'T forget Valentine's Day. The only awkward part of the call is when Putin said, is the president there? And both Trump and Elon said yes.
- [01:19]
Mika Brzezinski
Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Thursday, February 13th. A reminder tomorrow. Brunt Ratner, tomorrow. Okay, we've got a lot to get to this morning, including that call between President Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin. President Trump is predicting a ceasefire in the conflict, but his comments yesterday seemed to favor Putin's interests for ending the war. It comes as Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth laid out hardline stances on the future of Ukraine and US Relations with NATO members. We'll go through all of that straight ahead. Plus, Attorney General Pam made a statement yesterday taking action against the state of New York over its immigration policies, but her news conference was a little bit misleading. We'll explain that. And new economic data shows inflation is getting worse, and that's before Trump's tariffs. We'll look at the latest projections for the future U.S. economy. Also ahead, an NFL superstar is defending Taylor Swift after she was booed by some fans at the Big Game. We'll play for you his comment. With us we have the co host of the Fourth hour and contributing writer at the Atlantic, Jonathan Lemire, columnist and associate editor for the Washington Post David Ignatius, the host of Way Too Early, Ali Vitale is with us and former treasury official and Morning Joe economic analyst Steve Ratner. Steve, you have charts on the tariffs? We'll get to that. We have a lot of other things to talk about for and we're going to start this morning with a new development in the Middle east, where moments ago Hamas confirmed its commitment to continuing the ceasefire deal in Gaza, including the hostage exchange. That is according to a statement from the militant group, which now resolves a major dispute that threatened the cease fire deal. We're learning that three more Israeli hostages are set to be freed as initially planned. This comes after President Trump had warned Hamas all hell would break loose if the hostages were not released by noon on Saturday. And Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu said military operations would have resumed in this. So, David Ignatius, your take on this breaking news and Trump's involvement in it.
- [03:42]
Ali Vitale
So, Mika, I think there's no question that Hamas was basically intimidated into resuming the process that had begun. Hamas had complained about Israeli military operations and had said it wanted to call off the next stage. There was a series of threats. I think the point that I take away from the events of the last week in Gaza is that this war, despite the ceasefire and the release of hostages, is not over. Israel is more committed than ever to destroying Hamas, not simply to take, taking away its military power, but to destroying the organization and any political role it has in the future.
- [04:25]
James Matthews
Certainly the future of the enclave there remains front and center. President Trump earlier this week still insisting upon his plan for perhaps US Control of Gaza, which of course has not been well received by others in the region, including the King of Jordan, just minutes after leaving the Oval Office, where in the Oval Office he was polite with Trump, but later put out a statement made clear that his nation does not support that. But while that is in the background, certainly the officials I've talked to at the White House believe that Trump's sort of bellicose rhetoric on this in the last few days helped push Hamas to continue to uphold his end of the deal. You know, he has suggested there would be violent repercussions perhaps in the region if that were not to be the case. Of course, this is just breaking news. We will stay on it all morning long. Meanwhile, another big story from yesterday. President Trump speaking with Russian President Vladimir Putin about ending the war in Ukraine. It has been almost three years since Russian troops invaded their neighbor, starting a conflict that has killed and injured hundreds of thousands of soldiers. The call between President Trump and Putin is their first confirmed conversation since Trump's return to the White House. President Trump says that he's agreed to visit Russia and Putin has agreed to come to the United States, but that the two leaders would likely first meet somewhere else, a neutral site. Trump floated Saudi Arabia as a possibility yesterday. At the White House, reporters pressed Trump on peace Talks without the Ukrainian president. Are you freezing out President Zelensky of this process? Isn't there a danger of that?
- [06:00]
Donald Trump
No, I don't think so, as long as he's there. But, you know, at some point, you're going to have to have elections, too. You're going to have to have an election.
- [06:07]
Raf Sanchez
Do you view Ukraine as an equal member of this peace process?
- [06:13]
Donald Trump
It's an interesting question. I think they have to make peace. Their people are being killed and I think they have to make peace.
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Mika Brzezinski
Close NATO membership for Ukraine.
- [06:24]
Donald Trump
I don't think it's practical to have it personally, sir.
- [06:28]
James Matthews
Just to be clear, do you see.
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Jonathan Lemire
Any future in which Ukraine returns to its pre2014 borders?
- [06:33]
Donald Trump
Well, I think Pete said today that that's unlikely, right? It certainly would seem to be unlikely.
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James Matthews
Ultimately, these are both demands that Russia.
- [06:41]
Mika Brzezinski
Has made in the past.
- [06:42]
James Matthews
Is there not a danger of handing.
- [06:44]
Mika Brzezinski
Russia a kind of win on this?
- [06:46]
Donald Trump
Well, well, I think that if you look at the war, the way the war is going, you'll have to make your own determination. I'm just here to try and get peace. I don't care so much about anything other than I want to stop having millions of people killed.
- [07:01]
Mika Brzezinski
President Trump did speak with President Zelensky yesterday, writing on social media that the conversation went very well. Trump Says Vice President J.D. vance and Secretary of State Marco Rubio are set to meet with Zelensky tomorrow in Munich. Ahead of that meeting, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant met with President Zelensky yesterday in Kyiv to discuss an agreement that would trade access to Ukrainian natural resources for continued military support. Zelenskyy described it as a detailed plan on a strategic partnership between the two countries that would include opportunities for American businesses and said that Ukraine wanted investment in its resources. Meanwhile, the Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth made his first appearance at the Ukraine Defense Contact Group in Brussels yesterday, where he overhauled the US stance on Europe's largest conflict since World War II. The group was formed by former Secretary Lloyd Austin as a coalition in support of Ukraine. Hegseth called for an end to the war, but said any goal of returning Ukraine to its pre2014 borders is unrealistic and ruled out NATO membership for Ukraine.
- [08:25]
Steve Ratner
We are at, as you said, Mr. Secretary, a critical moment as the war approaches its third anniversary. Our message is clear. The bloodshed must stop and this war must end. We want, like you, a sovereign and prosperous Ukraine. But we must start by recognizing that returning to Ukraine's pre2014 borders is an unrealistic objective. Chasing this illusionary goal will only prolong the war and cause more suffering. That said, the United States does not believe that NATO membership for Ukraine is a realistic outcome of a negotiated settlement. Instead, any security guarantee must be backed by capable European and non European troops. If these troops are deployed as peacekeepers to Ukraine at any point, they should be deployed as part of a non NATO mission and they should not be covered under Article 5. There also must be robust international oversight of the line of contact. To be clear, as part of any security guarantee, there will not be US Troops deployed to Ukraine. Safeguarding European security must be an imperative for European members of NATO. As part of this, Europe must provide the overwhelming share of future lethal and non lethal aid to Ukraine.
- [10:02]
Mika Brzezinski
Joining us live from NATO headquarters in Brussels, NBC News international correspondent Raf Sanchez. Raf, where does this leave you? Ukraine in terms of support from the US and NATO.
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Jonathan Lemire
Well, Mika, Ukraine really suffering a one, two punch at the hands of the Trump administration, as you said. President Trump speaking to Vladimir Putin of Russia before Vladimir Zelensky of Ukraine inviting Putin to the White House and not Zelensky. And this is exactly what the Ukrainians did not want. The Russians in the ear of the president, shaping this conversation before these negotiations have even begun. And then Pete Hegseth, the new secretary of defense, delivering that second blow here at NATO headquarters in Brussels. He did not give a forceful statement in support of Ukraine. Instead, he made a list of things the United States expects Ukraine to give up. As you heard in that soundbite you played, he said it is not realistic for Ukraine to continue trying to recover all of the territory that it is lost to Russia. So that is both territory lost since the full scale invasion began back in February 2022, but areas lost since 2014, including Crimea. He also said that Ukraine needs to abandon its goal of NATO membership as part of these peace negotiations. And I can tell you, Mika, there is deep frustration here among the NATO allies. You heard the German defense minister saying very bluntly that in his assessment, the Trump administration is making concessions to Putin before these negotiations have even begun. Now, Secretary Hegseth was asked this morning, is the United States betraying Ukraine? He denied that, as you can imagine. He pointed to the billions of dollars in support that the US has given Ukraine. We should say that is support that came under the Biden administration. And it is very unclear whether that support is going to continue at this level. In his statement yesterday, Hegseth said that going forward, it is the European allies who will be expected to provide the bulk of military support to Ukraine he said the United States is focusing on China and the Indo Pacific and on its own borders and that it is downgrading European security as a priority. So big questions today, Mika, especially about some of the specifics of defense programs that Ukraine depends on the United states for those F16s, those Patriot missile defense systems. A lot of those questions unanswered right now.
- [12:39]
Mika Brzezinski
NBC's Raf Sanchez, thank you very much. And we'll be gauging all the reactions to this, Jonathan, the mayor, including from our NATO allies.
- [12:47]
Jonathan Lemire
Yeah.
- [12:47]
James Matthews
In many ways, this phone call yesterday was the beginning of the end of this war. And it ends certainly a period of isolation for Vladimir Putin, who had been made a global pariah in the aftermath of the invasion of Ukraine. In fact, he had not spoken to a US President since the war began. President Biden had isolated him, had stopped taking his calls. So this is in itself a win for Putin. So is a potential invitation to the United States, maybe even the White House in the years ahead. A summit. We remember, of course, what happened in other the other Trump Putin summit in Helsinki some years ago. Looks like we may have a few on the horizon here. This was certainly a significant day here. And as Raf said, one not well received in Kyiv. Their main goal of achieving NATO membership, the US Very dismissive of that. That's something of course, that Putin really opposes. Trump has not ruled out entirely, continuing to send some aid to Kyiv. You know, he said that in the Oval Office yesterday. But we, as we saw, the treasury secretary is there. It's going to be much more conditional now, negotiated as part of deal. And as Secretary of Defense Hegseth said, the US has made clear they're only focusing a lot less on Europe going forward. So, David Ignatius, it was also so striking, first of all, that Trump spoke to Putin before he spoke to Zelensky. In his truth social post about that call, he said he would, quote, inform Zelensky about what he talked about with Putin and that their country's negotiators, meaning Russia and the United States, would begin talking about a peace would look like seemingly putting Ukraine on the sidelines of its own war. Now, we heard from Zelenskyy later in the day saying that his conversation with Trump was meaningful. A lot of that was spin. But certainly you've written about what a peace could look like. A negotiated settlement could occur later this year. Certainly Moscow now thinks it's going to be more along the lines of what Putin wanted than perhaps Zelenskyy.
- [14:41]
Ali Vitale
So, Jonathan, the negotiations began yesterday, really. And the question is Whether President Trump is going to sell out Ukraine, which has been valiant in fighting off Russian aggression, whether this peace deal will be made over the heads of the Ukrainians. There certainly were some signs that the United States is moving away from Ukraine. Hexseth, the secretary of defense, was blunt in saying what everybody's understood, but people have rare said out loud, which is that Ukraine will have to make territorial concessions as part of a deal. And he was specific about NATO membership not being an outcome of this negotiation. Again, that's been pretty widely understood. There were some things in Hegseth's speech that I thought were significant positive elements. If you're Vladimir Zelensky sitting in Kyiv, there was discussion about a security guarantee from, yes, a European force, but a fairly robust one with troops from Britain, France, the Baltic states. A range of powerful European armies would be placed there as a tripwire to prevent further Russian aggression. There would be a force to monitor a line of control. It would be, from what I could read, something like the armistice that ended the Korean War, where there was an armistice in place. I think the key question as this goes forward is whether President Trump, as he seeks to be the peacemaker on Ukraine, will make a peace that is a just settlement that Ukrainians can say protects their basic interests and allows them to be part of Europe, or whether it will be a sellout. It's too early for me, based on the evidence yesterday, to make a judgment as to which it is.
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David Ignatius
But you use that word just both in the headline of your piece and even here with us now. I think there are concerns that I have heard from many that the goal of peace is admirable, and yet it could be done at the cost of selling out a key U.S. ally. We're going to see what we hear from Trump in the next 24 or so hours on this, but we'll definitely get another overture of this story from Munich on Friday, as Secretary of State Rubio and Vice President Vance are set to meet with Zelensky, what do you imagine that conversation could sound like?
- [17:03]
Ali Vitale
So, Ali, I'm leaving for Munich today, and I hope to at least listen in on the public part of the conversation. I think that observers like us have to be very careful in measuring what is offered to Ukraine in terms of protecting it in the future against continued Russian aggression and what is given to Putin to satisfy his he thinks Ukraine doesn't exist as a real country. Is he going to get that fantasy of total Russian dominance of Ukraine satisfied in these negotiations? If so, it's an outrageous betrayal of a friend. But it may be that there's something more in the middle. This is a terrible conflict. The cost to both sides has been just hideous. And as Trump says, it is time for this conflict to go into a negotiation phase. But I think we all need to watch very carefully, look at each of the terms, and then make a judgment.
- [18:02]
Mika Brzezinski
So with that as the backdrop, Steve Ratner, what do you make of the Treasury Secretary, Scott Besant, meeting with Zelensky? And there's this talk now about access to what they have in exchange for military support.
- [18:16]
Donald Trump
Yeah, look, there's two pieces to this. I think more traditionally, a Treasury secretary would go in there to talk about how do we rebuild this place, how do we get it back to be able to function as a, a normal country in a small way, like what we did in Europe after World War II. In this administration, Trump is also talking about, like, how do I get my money back? I got a lot of money over there, so what do I want back? And Ukraine has a lot of natural resources. Ukraine could be a buyer of things from us. And so they're trying to do an economic deal that not only helps Ukraine, but also helps the US In a fairly classic Trump kind of move.
- [18:52]
Mika Brzezinski
So go ahead.
- [18:54]
James Matthews
No, and certainly we also should note, just yesterday, the Kremlin rejected an idea floated by Kyiv in terms of swapping some territories. Zelenskyy had said, hey, we'll give you back the land in Kursk across the border in Russia that we have seized in exchange for some of the territory that Russia has taken from Ukraine. Moscow said no to that. And also we should just take a moment again to dwell on the optics of this, the importance of this phone call. If Trump were to go to Russia, it would be the first time a US president had been there since 2013. Putin's last visit to the United States was 2015. And also yesterday, as took some questions about his call with Putin. What was the setting of that in the Oval Office for the swearing in of Tulsi Gabbard as Dni Gabbard, of course, accused by many as one who has regurgitated Kremlin propaganda talking points. She tweeted right after the invasion began in 2022 that it was Ukraine and NATO had pushed Russia to invade Ukraine. So certainly yesterday was the best day that Moscow's had in this war in quite some time.
- [19:55]
Mika Brzezinski
In a long time. Yeah. NBC News has also learned that the Trump administration has agreed to send convicted money launderer back to Russia in exchange for the release of American teacher Mark Fogel. Officials say Alexander Vinick is in American custody and will be transported to Russia by the end of the week. He pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit money laundering last year. And to your point, Steve, as part of the swap has agreed to leave $100 million in digital assets behind in the United States. Additionally, the one the White House says Belarus has freed three prisoners, including an American and an employee of a U S. Funded radio station. We'll follow that. We also have breaking news out of Germany where police say a vehicle drove into a crowd and injured at least 20 people. The incident happened in Munich. Right now, the driver is in police custody. We still don't know a motive, but we learned that a union rally was happening during that time. This comes ahead of the Munich Security Conference, which is set to take place tomorrow. We'll bring you more details as they come.
- [21:05]
James Matthews
And it was just a few weeks ago, right before Christmas, where a car plowed into a Christmas market in a German city later deemed a terror attack. Obviously, we have no sense yet of the details. We'll stay on it, but that will be front of mind for investigators.
- [21:18]
Mika Brzezinski
Still ahead on MORNING joe, we'll have the latest on President Trump's cabinet nominees at as Tulsi Gabbard is sworn in as national intelligence director and Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Is poised to be confirmed as HHS secretary later this morning. Plus, a member of the Judiciary Committee, Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal, joins us ahead of the panel's vote on Kash Patel's nomination to lead the FBI. But first, disappointing inflation data is raising concerns about the future of interest rates. Steve Radner has charts on that and more. You're watching Morning Joe. We're back in 90 seconds.
- [22:02]
Raf Sanchez
This podcast is supported by Planned Parenthood Federation of America. Planned Parenthood Federation of America exists so all people can get access to the sexual and reproductive care and education they need. Planned Parenthood organizations advocate for health equity and policies that allow people the freedom to control their own bodies, lives and futures. More than 2 million patients a year rely on Planned Parenthood health center services like STI testing and treatment, birth control, gender affirming care, abortion, cancer screenings and more. Reproductive health care and rights are under attack from public officials who are out of step with the will of the vast majority of Americans. The constitutional right to abortion has been stolen and politicians in 47 states have introduced bills that would block people from getting the sexual and reproductive care they need. Planned Parenthood knows that equitable access to health care, including safe, legal abortion, is a human right. Right now Planned Parenthood needs your help to protect access to health care. Donate today by visiting plannedparenthood.org protect stay.
- [23:06]
Chris Hayes
Connected with the MSNBC app bringing you breaking news and analysis anytime, anywhere.
- [23:12]
Mika Brzezinski
Let's get up to speed. We've got some breaking news right now.
- [23:15]
Chris Hayes
Watch your favorite shows live.
- [23:16]
David Ignatius
There's a lot happening here in Washington.
- [23:18]
James Matthews
As Donald Trump's second term starts to take shape.
- [23:21]
Chris Hayes
Read live blogs and in depth essays and listen to coverage as it unfolds. Go beyond the what to understand the why. Download the app now@msnbc.com app hey everyone, it's Chris Hayes.
- [23:36]
James Matthews
This week on my podcast, why Is this Happening? Bloomberg news reporter Zeke Fox on what the heck's happening with crypto. What crypto is good for is crazy gambling. And there's a very big group of people around the world who've realized this is kind of fun. I like gambling on crypto. I know somebody who made a lot of money on it. Maybe I should try to find the next bitcoin.
- [23:57]
Mika Brzezinski
That's this week on why is this Happening?
- [23:59]
James Matthews
Search for why is this Happening? Wherever you're listening right now and follow.
- [24:04]
Mika Brzezinski
The hour. Steve, the latest inflation data shows consumer prices rose more than anticipated last month, raising questions about the future direction of interest rates. You have charts on this? Take it away.
- [24:17]
Donald Trump
Yeah, Mika. We've been expecting inflation to continue to kind of moderate, ease down, provide more room for the Federal Reserve to cut interest rates and give relief, of course, to consumers as well from rising prices. But last month we didn't win quite get that. It wasn't a disaster, but it wasn't what we hoped for. Consumer prices actually rose. And we look at consumer prices as, you know, two ways, one, all of them. And the other, when you take out food and energy, what we call core, which is this blue line right here. And core is running now at about 3.3%. It's gone up for four months in a row. It is the highest it's been in over a year. And so the moderating trend that we'd seen for so long seems to have abated for now. And this is not lost on consumers. And this is very important because what consumers expect actually plays a meaningful role in what actually happens in inflation. And you can see here, consumers were expecting that when they look ahead a year, they expected higher inflation. And then they expected inflation to come down, down, down, down, down. And look what's happened here. Consumer expectations for inflation have shot up and consumers now expect inflation could be as high as 4.3% over the coming Year and again, that has a self reinforcing quality. And so that makes it tougher as well for the Fed to bring down inflation.
- [25:37]
Mika Brzezinski
So Steve, another thing that impacts consumers is interest rates. What's the market saying?
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Donald Trump
Yeah, so when you have more inflation, it pushes up interest rates because people expect to get a return on their money. The Federal Reserve controls what we call shorter term interest rates. This is the Federal Reserve's interest rate and you can see they've cut it a couple times. But what's also happened is the 10 year treasury, the yield on the 10 year treasury has gone up and up and up here since really since the election. There are really three things in the Trump policies that are worrisome. Inflation for inflation. Number one, of course are tariffs. We've talked a lot about tariffs and how they affect prices and paid for by consumers. That hasn't taken effect yet, but that's a drag on inflation, a bad thing for inflation. The second thing is immigration. We've benefited from a lot of workers coming into the workforce which has kept wage increases down a little bit lower than they might have been and helped provide economic growth that may be coming to an end. And the third thing is that yesterday the House Republicans unveiled their budget plan. They want to have massive tax cuts, they want to increase defense spending, and they have some vague ideas about cutting other spending which they didn't detail. But on present course and speed, indeed, we're going to get a substantial increase in the deficit out of what's going on in Washington. And that's inflationary because it makes the economy grow faster and the faster it grows above its potential, the more inflation you get. So all of that has led the market to predict interest rates to remain higher for longer. If you go back to even before the election, we thought the Federal Reserve would have the interest, its interest rate down to 3.7%. We're now looking at basically no more interest cuts this year, maybe one cut in December. And so interest rates stalling out is not a good thing for the economy and especially for mortgage holders because the 30 year mortgage is stuck up here close to 7%.
- [27:33]
Mika Brzezinski
Okay. And finally, I guess the penny is not so lucky. Costly to make the penny a penny for your thoughts.
- [27:42]
Donald Trump
Well, it could be lucky to hold because maybe there won't be so many anymore. So in the. So interestingly, the cost of making coins has shot up over the years. Inflation, the cost of the metals that go into them and so forth. And one of the ones that's gone up the most is the penny. And it now costs 3.7 cents to make every penny. So the treasury loses money on every penny it makes. It actually also loses money on the nickel, which costs 13.8 cents. And it makes some amount of money on the quarter and the die. And so they've announced, and this is long overdue. You have to give credit where credit's due. The Trump administration has actually made a good policy decision. Maybe it's the only one, but they've made one, which is to eliminate the penny, save some money. And also, consumers don't really use pennies that much. As you can see over here. They really don't use coins at all as much anymore. We've all gone electronic. And so usage of all these coins, production of all these coins has been going down, down, down. And yeah, when you eliminate the penny, the fear is that stores will round the prices up instead of down a little bit of extra cost. But you know, Australia, Canada, all those other places that we think of as behind us are actually way ahead of us when it comes to eliminating the penny because they did it years ago.
- [28:59]
Mika Brzezinski
All right, let's pull back to the big picture about the economy. Steve, I want to get your take on a few editorials. The Wall Street Journal editorial board writes this morning about Trumponomics and rising inflation. It reads in part, does President Trump understand money? Not money as in cash, but the supply of money, the price of money as measured by interest rates and their impact on inflation. The answer would appear to BE no After Mr. Trump called for lower interest rates on Wednesday. The same day the Labor Department reported an increase in inflation for the third straight month. Perhaps the president wants the public to look elsewhere when assigning blame for rising prices. As a political matter, an inflation revival may be the biggest threat to the Trump presidency. Mr. Trump was elected as voters reacted to inflation and falling incomes under Joe Biden. Real average earnings are flat over the last three months as inflation has bounced up. If this persists, Mr. Trump won't have a 53% job approval rating for long. And then this from Republican Senator Mitch McConnell. He has a piece this morning for the Courier Courier Journal entitled Kentuckians can't afford the High Cost of Trump's Tariffs. The former majority leader writes in part that no matter our best intentions, tariffs are bad policy. Blanket tariffs make it more expensive to do business in America, driving up costs for consumers across the board. These aren't just abstract concerns. Broad based tariffs could have long term consequences. Right in our backyard in Kentucky, local store owners are already hearing about their suppliers prices going Up. One estimate suggests the president's tariffs could cost the average Kentuckian up to $1200 each year. Preserving the long term prosperity of American industry and workers requires working with our allies, not against them. Trade wars with our partners hurt working people most. And the president has better tools to protect American workers without forcing on our families and businesses to absorb higher costs. Steve Ratner, I'd love for you to respond to those two editorials. And you know, I think it's safe to say that Joe Biden left an economy that was moving in the right direction, was it not?
- [31:34]
Donald Trump
Yeah. And this is the interesting, interesting thing for Trump. Joe Biden did leave an economy moving in the right direction, but there was still work to do. The deficit is high, inflation is high, real incomes are rising a bit, contrary to what Mitch McConnell said, but nonetheless not at a rate that we want. And so unlike when Trump came in 2016 when we had very, very low inflation, he's got work to do. And the work, as I said, is in conflict with the policies he's espoused so far, particularly, particularly the tariffs. You know, I need to put a new roof on my house. And the guy said to me, you better order these right now, because when those tariffs go into effect, effect cost is going to go up 25% of those materials because those shingles all come from Canada. So that's what we're looking at. But there are a couple of interesting conundrums here, because first, Trump is an easy money guy. Real estate guys are easy money guys. They like and they need low interest rates to finance their buildings. That's a large part of how they make money. And Trump doesn't really understand economic policy and monetary policy. And so he thinks the Fed should keep interest rates lower. He jawboned the Fed back during his first term. He has threatened to fire Jay Powell on many occasions and so forth. And you have that in conflict with what's going on in the Hill where they're talking about larger budget deficit. Well, not talking about them, they're talking about cutting the budget deficit, but everything they're saying is pointing to larger budget deficits rather than smaller ones. And then, as I said earlier, the impact of less immigration on our labor force and what that's going to do to prices. So the Journal is right. Mitch McConnell is right. The Trump administration keeps talking about bringing down prices. He promised during the campaign to bring them down on day one. And now they've got a set of policies that actually are certainly not going to make it better. And arguably could make it worse.
- [33:22]
Mika Brzezinski
Morning Joe economic analyst Steve Ratner, thank you. And we didn't get to eggs. Jonathan Lemire, which bird flu and other reasons happening with the eggs in the Bronx. $25 at this point as an egg.
- [33:34]
James Matthews
Price is skyrocketing in some places. My local chip market, hard to find.
- [33:37]
Mika Brzezinski
Can'T even get them.
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James Matthews
There aren't many on the shelves. So. Ali Vitaly, two thoughts for you. First, just again, this is Mitch McConnell unchained, I suppose you know he has now once again, he wrote this op ed attacking Trump's tariffs. He also voted against Tulsi Gabbard for dni, the only Republican to do so. We also know he opposed the Pete Hegseth nomination. But he's hit on something here. And as Steve just mentioned, prices are high. They're not going down. And this was Donald Trump's signature campaign pledge. He promised to bring prices down, to do it quickly. Well, it's only been a few weeks. We're not judging him just yet. But if this persists, if prices stay high or continue to go higher, this does seem to be a bit of a thorny political problem for him, no matter how much bluster he provides and blame he casts.
- [34:24]
David Ignatius
Absolutely. Especially because we saw voter after voter when I was out in the fields in September, October, and of course, in the early days of November covering what mattered to voters. It was the dollars and cents pocketbook issues, the kitchen table issues that were really motivating them at that point, or at least that's one of the things that was leading them to the ballot box. Many Democrats trying to do the autopsy, saying that maybe Kamala Harris didn't talk the right way about the economy. Of course, it was a central part of many of her TV messages. But we can even just put that aside. McConnell has two things here that I think are super interesting. The first, of course, is the way that everything he's doing on Capitol Hill, from Hegseth to Tulsi Gabbard, even this latest op ed, all goes through the lens of America on the world stage and keeping an eye on the way the global community would be reacting to American decisions, whether it's tariffs, which of course will have the impact here at home, but then, of course, the way that these members of the Cabinet would ultimately be reflected as, you know, emissaries of America on the world stage. And the second thing is, is he knows how to win elections and so he knows the salience of these economic issues. But for you, David Ignatius, as a master of the world stage yourself. When you look at the way that McConnell is trying to carve his legacy through these actions in the way in the early weeks of the Trump administration, what do you make of how he's doing this?
- [35:44]
Ali Vitale
So it's painful to say, but now that he's not going to run for election again, he's being much more courageous and straightforward, saying things that we believed he felt, taking position that would have brought him political risk had he still been in the position of majority leader. I think the larger question, Ali, is whether There are other McConnells out there in the Republican Party. There are a lot of things that Donald Trump is doing in this whirlwind first hundred days that worry Republicans, but they've lost their voice. They're frightened. And if they stay frightened, you know, we have a danger, I think, of policies that will be harmful. Steve Ratner just ran through a very detailed account of why this economic policy could go sideways or worse, are Republicans going to speak out about that? But I think, you know, I don't think of McConnell as the canary in the coal mine exactly. But maybe in this case, he is.
- [36:47]
David Ignatius
I know.
- [36:48]
Mika Brzezinski
All right, the Washington Post, David Ignatius, thank you very much for coming on this morning. Always good to see you. And coming up, the acting DOJ official leading with a potential witch hunt against prosecutors and FBI agents who investigated the Capitol Riot worked on January 6th cases himself. We'll have that new reporting straight ahead on MORNING joe.
- [37:28]
Chris Hayes
As President Donald Trump returns to the White House, what will the first 100 days of the presidency bring? Follow along as his agenda takes shape with the new MSNBC newsletter, Trump's first 100 days, weekly updates sent straight to your inbox, and expert insight on the key issues and figures defining Trump.
- [37:46]
Mika Brzezinski
This second term, we're seeing a really radical effort to change the American system of government.
- [37:52]
Chris Hayes
Sign up for Trump's first 100 days at msnbc.com trump100 MSNBC presents a new original podcast hosted by Jen Psaki. Each week, she and her guests explore how the Democratic Party is facing this political moment and where it's headed next.
- [38:10]
James Matthews
There's probably both messaging and policy issues, but as you look to kind of where the Democratic Party is, do you think it's more a messaging issue, more a policy issue?
- [38:20]
Chris Hayes
The Blueprint with Jen Psaki. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple podcasts for ad free listening and bonus content. The first 100 days, bills are passed, executive orders are signed, and presidencies are defined. And for Donald Trump's first 100 days, Rachel Maddow is on MSNBC five nights a week.
- [38:41]
Mika Brzezinski
Now is the time, so we're gonna do it.
- [38:43]
Chris Hayes
Providing her unique insight and analysis during this critical time.
- [38:47]
Mika Brzezinski
How do we strategically align ourselves to this moment of information, this moment of transition in our country?
- [38:53]
Chris Hayes
The Rachel Maddow show, weeknights at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC.
- [39:00]
Mika Brzezinski
20 the top of the hour. Time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. According to US Intelligence, Israel is likely to attempt a strike on Iran's nuclear program in the coming months. The Washington Post reports the preemptive attack would set back Tehran's program by weeks or perhaps months. The potential escalation would inflame tensions across the Middle East. In a new test for President Trump, who campaigned on restoring peace in the region, we'll be following that. A new study suggests medications to treat obesity may also help people drink less alcohol. That's according to government funded research. The data suggests drugs like Ozempic manage cravings not just for food, but also tobacco and alcohol. Scientists are studying these drugs in smokers, people with opioid addiction and cocaine users. And officials in Los Angeles are putting in place evacuation warnings amid a forecast of heavy rain. Downpours are expected throughout tomorrow in some of the same areas that were scorched by the recent wildfires there. The burn zones are now at a high risk of mudslides and dangerous debris flow will follow that.
- [40:23]
James Matthews
And we certainly hope everyone out there, yeah, certainly hope everyone out there stays safe. On a lighter note, the city of Philadelphia will celebrate the Eagles super bowl championship and a victory parade tomorrow. But ahead of that, star running back Saquon Barkley is defending pop star Taylor Swift after she was booed at Sunday's big game in New Orleans. Here's what Barkley told Howard Stern yesterday about Sunday's scene at the Superdome. They showed her on the jumbotron and she got booed. I don't get it. I don't get why she was getting hate there.
- [40:56]
Donald Trump
I didn't like that either.
- [40:57]
James Matthews
Yeah, she was just there supporting her.
- [40:59]
Ali Vitale
Significant other and she's made the game bigger.
- [41:02]
James Matthews
You know, we're all about how can we expand the game and make it more internationally.
- [41:06]
Ali Vitale
And we're traveling to Brazil and we're traveling to Mexico and her being a part of it is only helping that. So I don't get the slack that she's given.
- [41:14]
James Matthews
Ali Vitale, you're our resident Swifty, so we want you to weigh in on this. I think some of this is not resident Swifty is not necessarily about Taylor Swift. Personally, I think there is that general sense of chief's fatigue that has set in. But also, let's remember she was booed by Eagles fans who once booed Santa Claus. They'll boo anybody, because frankly, Taylor Swift, about as popular as Santa Claus.
- [41:38]
Mika Brzezinski
They'll boo anybody.
- [41:39]
David Ignatius
But she's also a Pennsylvania girl, has songs where they mention her Philadelphia Eagles T shirt on the door. So this was also a conflict of interest in some ways for her. Ultimately, we saw the way that she went, and you really can't blame her. I mean, Ryan's here as Michael co Swifty for the day. But look, I just want to remind people that it's not cool to hate Taylor Swift. Like, you don't get extra points for this. And if you don't like her, not mandatory to be a Swiftie, that's totally fine. I'm not looking to recruit people to the cause, but it's pretty great over here. I will say if you don't like her, you don't have to say anything. So say Quan Barkley. I'm into that.
- [42:14]
Mika Brzezinski
It's really. Hate gets rewarded on the Internet, though. That's the thing. But I agree with you, Ali. All right, moving on. Todd Blanche, President Trump's nominee to be deputy Attorney general, appeared before the Senate Judicia Committee for his confirmation hearing yesterday. Blanche was the president's criminal defense lawyer in his New York hush money case, as well as the two criminal cases brought by the Justice Department. Blanche used his opening statement to push the narrative that the prosecutions against Trump were political, including those launched by the very department he wants to help lead.
- [42:51]
James Matthews
Representing President Trump was the greatest job I've ever had. I think if I'm confirmed, my new job will surpass it. But it was the greatest job I ever had. It was an honor, and I learned a ton. It opened my eyes for sure to what happens when politics takes the place of justice. And both you and the ranking member talked about this, and I couldn't agree more, that politics should never play a part in the Department of Justice. And I saw with my own eyes in Manhattan, with the Manhattan case. I saw it in the Georgia case. I saw it in both Jack Smith prosecutions. I saw it in elected officials trying to keep President Trump off the ballot. It opened my eyes to something that I hadn't seen when I was just a prosecutor in New York trying to put gang members in jail.
- [43:39]
Mika Brzezinski
All right. Meanwhile, Democrats on the committee grilled Blanche about the potential conflict of interest that could arise in light of his former job representing the president. Take a look.
- [43:54]
James Matthews
Would you agree that it would be.
- [43:55]
Steve Ratner
A blatant conflict of interest as his.
- [44:00]
James Matthews
Criminal defense lawyer, as someone who has.
- [44:02]
Steve Ratner
A continuing legal obligation to him as.
- [44:06]
James Matthews
A former client, for you to participate.
- [44:09]
Donald Trump
In any of the work of that group as it pertains to the January.
- [44:13]
James Matthews
6Th case that you represented him, or.
- [44:15]
Donald Trump
The Mar A Lago case where you represent him, or Alvin Bragg's office where.
- [44:18]
Steve Ratner
You represent him, you would agree that that would be a very blatant conflict of interest?
- [44:23]
James Matthews
I don't. No, I don't necessarily agree with that. There will be a conflict of interest potentially, but I equip with the word blatant. I find remarkable that you feel there's.
- [44:32]
Steve Ratner
Any world in which you could somehow participate in an investigation of people where.
- [44:36]
Donald Trump
You represented the president in that same investigation.
- [44:39]
Mika Brzezinski
Lawmakers on both sides of the aisle also questioned Blanche on recent changes at the doj, including the string of firings at the FBI and President Trump's blanket pardon of January 6th rioters.
- [44:54]
Jonathan Lemire
It would never hold it against a public defender that they were defending in.
- [45:00]
James Matthews
The court of law, a person who.
- [45:02]
Steve Ratner
Was accused of a serious crime. Right.
- [45:04]
James Matthews
I would not.
- [45:04]
Steve Ratner
Right.
- [45:05]
James Matthews
And my view on the FBI is it's the same thing.
- [45:08]
Jonathan Lemire
If an FBI agent, I'm a worker there, and I get assigned to a.
- [45:11]
James Matthews
Case by my boss, Is there any.
- [45:15]
Jonathan Lemire
Reason in the world that I should pay a price because I did my job as assigned?
- [45:22]
James Matthews
No. And I don't think that that's what's happening.
- [45:25]
Steve Ratner
As a future member of the doj.
- [45:29]
James Matthews
What would be your position on anybody.
- [45:31]
Jonathan Lemire
Who does violence against police officers in.
- [45:33]
James Matthews
The past or in the future? They should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. And do you agree with me that.
- [45:39]
Steve Ratner
Anybody who was convicted or pled guilty.
- [45:43]
James Matthews
Pleaded guilty to violence against a police officer owes a formal written apology to whoever they hurt in the process? That is something I would think they should certainly consider doing.
- [45:56]
Mika Brzezinski
A vote on Blanche's nomination has not been scheduled, but could come as soon as next week. Meanwhile, as President Trump's Department of Justice works to identify all FBI agents and employees who work on the sprawling investigation into the January 6 attack on the Capitol, new reporting reveals the DOJ official behind that order, Acting Deputy Attorney General Amal Beauvais, once helped track down rioters himself. Back in 2021, the months following the insurrection, Beauvais assisted in the search for rioters as a Manhattan federal prosecutor. Joining us now with more on that reporting, Ryan Reilly. He covers the Justice Department and federal law Enforcement for NBC News. Ryan, what more do you know about this and what do you make of this change of heart he might be having?
- [46:55]
Steve Ratner
Yeah, you know, I mean, you know, even for someone who worked in the Southern District of New York, which is sort of a notoriously hard charging district, sometimes jokingly referred to as the software sovereign district of New York for its independence from the Justice Department, the suggestion that SDNY should have taken over the investigation of an attack on the U.S. capitol in D.C. was a pretty bold move, but that's what he was proposing here. You know, some of the criticism that we've seen in the years since is that the notion that essentially prosecutors in these cases saw this as a way to sort of build their career. They saw thisI've heard the line use that of the equivalent of their 9 11. Right. That these werethey knew this was gonna be this major national security case, but this was this major attack on the Capitol that resulted in multiple deaths, that resulted in severe injuries to police officers. It was an act of domestic terrorism as adjudicated in these certain cases. That's a high bar in a lot of these, and often it's on the back end in sentencing. But this is what you saw prosecutors going for is sentencing enhancements for domestic terrorism. And so his involvement here is fascinating. It's angered a lot of people within the Justice Department who worked these cases or career officials who were assigned these cases. I think the divide that you've seen within the FBI, there's been a lot of backlash from within the FBI, which once again, I'll say it for the millionth time, is a conservative leaning law enforcement organization about this targeting of FBI employees as well as probationary employees. If that probationary. If they end up going after these individuals at the FBI who are on probation, which means they've been there for less than two years, and they have fewer civil service protections than FBI agents who have been there for longer. That is going to destroy the pipeline of FBI employees for years, and that will make it much more difficult for the FBI to recruit.
- [48:42]
David Ignatius
We talked on our show about that pipeline concern, and then in your story about Bovey, sort of sums it up as the calls coming from inside the house when it comes to him. But I want to stay on this idea of prosecutors across the country, U.S. attorneys, because you reported overnight that some of them got their walking papers, and that's not abnormal for a new administration to come in and sort of tell the U.S. attorneys that exist. All right, time to go. But what's not normal about the way that this one went, that it's coming.
- [49:10]
Steve Ratner
From the White House. I mean, the origin of this is different. Right? Because if you look back to Trump 1.0, the first term, what you had is then Attorney General Jeff Sessions, who we all know who that story ends. But he wrote these letters to the Biden appoint or rather the Obama appointed US Attorneys and just that narrow category saying, hey, requesting a resignation. So that was sort of how they did it first term. Then when Biden took office, he sent letter. It was rather his administration, his within the Justice Department asked people to resign. By a certain point. It was a three week lead time. So there was a natural transition. So it was sort of wind down. It wasn't pack up your desk, you're out today. This was sort of this natural wind down transition of those Trump appointed U.S. attorneys. So this is a major departure. And also I think the rubber is going to hit the road here on some of the court appointed U.S. attorneys because of course, people who are appointed by Obama knew they were going to be out at some point. But when you're talking about court appointed U.S. attorneys, that's a whole different thing. And especially terminal and immediate termination notices coming from the White House is the oddity here.
- [50:12]
Mika Brzezinski
NBC's Ryan Reilly, thank you so much. His book Sedition How January 6th Broke the Justice System. It's out now. Still ahead, amid all that is going on in Washington, Congress needs to figure out how to avoid a shutdown. We'll speak with Republican Congressman Tim Moore and ranking member of the House Budget Committee, Democratic Congressman Brendan Boyle on the negotiations. Also ahead, we'll speak with the New Republic Senator Michael Tomaski on his new piece about the important lessons Democrats need to learn in order to win big in the next election. MORNING JOE will be right back. Three minutes before the top of the hour. A rainy day here in New York City. Egg prices are soaring to record highs this morning as farmers are forced to take new measures to protect their chickens from rapidly spreading cases of bird flu. NBC news correspondent Erin McLachlan has the latest.
- [51:27]
Raf Sanchez
And Wagon Wheel farm in upstate New York. Farmer Jason Tao knows his eggs are expensive.
- [51:34]
James Matthews
I never thought I'd see the day where a dozen eggs cost more than a bale of hay.
- [51:38]
Raf Sanchez
The five and a half dollars he charged for a dozen back in May became $7 in October and now it's $8 a dozen. Cow says he has no choice but to pass along the cost of protecting his flock of 500 chickens. Across the country, more than 21 million chickens died due to bird flu since December. Just weeks ago, it was found on a chicken farm a county away from Wagon Wheel. And so Tao is ramping up security, sanitizing footwear, sporting gloves, and installing roofs over his coops.
- [52:09]
James Matthews
We're always watching for it.
- [52:11]
Raf Sanchez
So far, so good.
- [52:12]
James Matthews
So far, so good.
- [52:13]
Raf Sanchez
The goal? To protect his farm from wild birds, known carriers of the virus.
- [52:18]
James Matthews
There's any wild birds that land on top, they're not going to cross contaminate with any droppings down into the chicken runs.
- [52:27]
Raf Sanchez
He spent thousands on biosecurity. The cost passed along to his consumers. Tao says the main price pusher for his eggs, replacing older hens that no longer lay. Profitably, those costs have skyrocketed. And for Americans struggling with inflation fatigue, the doubling of egg prices is an added shock.
- [52:47]
Ali Vitale
I don't get it, and I can't afford it.
- [52:52]
Steve Ratner
So I eat a lot less and.
- [52:54]
Donald Trump
Pay a little more.
- [52:55]
Raf Sanchez
And that's when people can even find eggs. Retailers Trader Joe's and Costco now limiting how many eggs a customer can buy. Meanwhile, back at Wagon Wheel Farm. Do you worry you're gonna have to charge even more if this keeps going?
- [53:10]
James Matthews
That's already on the horizon.
- [53:12]
Raf Sanchez
Chicken farms across the US they're scrambling to keep the bird flu at bay while bracing for the cost of eggs to climb even higher.
- [53:22]
Mika Brzezinski
All right, that was NBC's Aaron McLaughlin reporting.